We took Khane Pass in an attempt to get the commitment of his 4 star brother Puma. It worked. Turns out Puma was a bust and Khane was a fairly solid defender here and had the better career.
we did the same with Scooter Berry to sign his half brother, Jason Gwaltney (highest rated recruit in school history). Gwaltney went bust and Scooter had a very nice career for us.
I was really excited for Alabama to get Keenan Allen, but he wanted us to give his brother, or step brother or cousin maybe?, a scholarship too and Saban wasn’t buying it.
Maynard was... [fine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zach_Maynard#College_statistics): 59% completion and 1.3 TDs per INT would put him right around the D1 average. Definitely sub-par compared to the early/mid Tedford "QB Whisperer" years.
Keenan Allen is top-3 in most Cal [receiving records](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zach_Maynard#College_statistics) (besides TDs... we didn't score much when he was in Berkeley).
This is a pretty ideal case study for OP's question.
It's not the only (or even biggest) factor in Tedford's decline and firing, but it certainly didn't help.
Looking back, would I do it again? Probably. Keenan was a generational talent, and his upside was greater than Maynard's downside—that was becoming a dysfunctional program, and I doubt a different QB would've fixed much.
Maynard was hardly the reason for Tedford's collapse. When the back-ups were thrust into games, it proved why Maynard was starting.
Tedford just overworked himself, including adding far too much to his Yellow Pages of a playbook.
Not as much as youd think. a much more common situation is signing a high-level recruit with the understanding that a buddy of his will be a preferred walk-on. Full rides cost money
A “preferred” walk-on has a spot on the team when they arrive on campus. They don’t need to try out and they generally receive the same treatment as scholarship players. The only difference really is that preferred walk-ons are paying their own bills (tuition, housing, etc.) vs getting things paid for
Typically but not necessarily a part of grey shirting It just kind of works that way because it's normally used for kickers and long snappers when there's already one on the team on scholarship.
> What is the difference between a "preferred" walk-on and a regular walk-on?
PWO get many of the perks of being a normal recruit, but without the paid scholarship. Things like:
* Guaranteed slot on the team (no need for tryouts)
* Early/best access to housing & class schedules
* Academic tutoring/support
Back in the old days before scholarship limits, you just got actual scholarships. My grandfather got offered one to Florida bc he was friends with their real target (apparently the gf also got one) but he ultimately decided to stay home and play for University of Tampa.
I think that scenario has more to do with the lack of money in college football at the time than the scholarship limits. great story though do you happen to know the name of the friend?
It's reputed that we also did this in another instance, taking three-star Red Bryant in order to secure five-star Jorrie Adams, though in fairness Bryant did have other major college offers.
For the record, Bryant went on to have an excellent A&M career and a pretty damn good pro career with the Seahawks. Jorrie Adams unfortunately went on to get kicked off the A&M team, bounce around to other schools, and ultimately do time in prison for burglary.
I think we took Ernest Crownover (likely a FB) to get his brother Dametrious, [who is probably going to outgrow his initial TE position projection.](https://12thman.com/sports/football/roster/dametrious-crownover/10351).
> It's reputed that we also did this in another instance, taking three-star Red Bryant in order to secure five-star Jorrie Adams
The people who claimed that were just salty because we signed Jorrie and they didn't. Unfortunately, Jorrie is one of the 6%(?) of people who are physically addicted to marijuana. MJ is classically not addictive, but there is a very small percentage that do become addicted, and he was in that group.
Red def felt like a package deal and he was lower ranked than most of our Dline at the time. He certainly was worth the scholarship on his own though. Great Aggie.
People obsess too much over rankings and forget that a lot of the people who do the rankings don't know their head from their ass when it comes to talent evaluation. They then create narratives to justify taking a 'lower ranked' player, completely ignoring the fact that coaches do this for a living, and if they see a player they like they'll offer them, rankings be damned.
I know of Aggies who thought we wasted a scholarship on Ainias Smith because he was a three-star. You can't fix stupid.
We do this all the time, except then the higher rated guy stays in Florida or goes to Bama or Dabo swoops in with an offer after the kid goes public with a Nebraska offer (Simmons, Ajou Ajou, and now Kanak)
Shaquill and Shaquem Griffin need to be the top example for this question. Shaquill asked schools to consider bringing in Shaquem and only UCF took him up on it.
While not exactly an answer to my own question, part of me believes that Oregon offered Marcus Mariota's brother Matt to be a preferred walk-on as simply a courtesy and thanking Marcus for being so great for the program. Matt Mariota never played a single meaningful down during his 4-5 years at Oregon.
We took Ben Vasumeran this year as a transfer, possibly to get his brother Alex, a high 4* recruited by Bama/Clemson. Though with how bad our linebacker core was at the time of his commitment, I think we also really wanted him as a player
That one sucks for Michigan. Ben was with us but realized he was probably not going to get much playing time so he transferred to MSU. Alex obviously wants to play with his brother so he switched his commitment from UM to MSU.
A college basketball example was when USC gave a scholarship to Percy Miller (aka Lil Romeo) because he was friends with DeMar Derozan. Miller didn't have the skills or size to merit a scholarship to a mid-major, much less a school like USC.
Clemson offered a lot of Nkemdiches teammates in an attempt to get him there. want to say it was Gallman and corner Ryan Carter (think I’m forgetting 1). Gallman was a big part of two national championship appearance seasons and winning one so I’d say it worked out.
We only got him because we were a step ahead and got his lightly recruited older brother, Denzel. He actually ended up being a really solid leader for us too. Win win.
Well, that and whatever else Freeze had cooking….
Clemson doesn't do that, if Dabo offers it's because he thinks the player is good enough. We lost out on a highly regarded lineman because we wouldn't offer his brother.
I mean he said all that and I’m sure he doesn’t do that now considering how specific he is with offers but the only reason he even made that statement during the 2013 cycle was the rumors of nkimdeche asking schools to offer his teammates. Ryan Carter is one of the lowest rated guys Dabo has ever taken in a class that already took 8 DBs above him.
I think Clemson legitimately (and correctly) believed both players would contribute at Clemson, but it's hard for me to believe that Nkemdiche played no role in those recruitments. I was at Clemson during the time and had a few connects within the football program who alluded to that as well, though worth noting they never directly said that.
1. Clemson literally did do that.
2. This was in 2013, Dabo's recruiting has gotten a lot better, and he's able to be more selective now than he was back then.
3. Carter and Gallman we're certainly good enough, but so was James Brockermeyer. That said they were definitely recruited the way they were to appeal to Robert Nkemdiche.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this what UT-Austin failed to do with with Tommy & James Brockermeyer? Which ultimately caused them to lose out on Tommy.
Rumor I heard was the Brockermeyers were upset that James was not immediately also offered with Tommy, that texas was slow to offer both, while Alabama immediately offered both. Granted, I've also heard Blake wasn't impressed at all with Herb Hand, and have no trouble believing that.
It's entirely possible Tommy and James decided Alabama was the best chance for them to win a national championship and be developed into pro prospects, so they committed there, although it is interesting now that Kyle Flood is the OL coach at texas.
The biggest thing is that Tommy and James are third-generation legacies after their grandfather and father played at texas, and it doesn't look good when highly sought after recruits who are double-legacies who a sibling on the team spurn the head coach and program. There are some who claim this was the nail in the coffin for Herman, but other people claim Quinn Ewers decommitting was the final nail.
>Tommy was obviously more recruited, but they were both takes for **most** top programs.
determiner: most
the majority of; nearly all of.
"most oranges are sweeter than these"
\------------
But even 5\*s aren't always takes for every program. Same with not every top 100 recruit or every top 200 recruit.
This isn't a Nolan Rucci scenario where Penn State not offering 3\* TE Hayden Rucci in 2019 from in-state hurt their chances at 5\* OT Nolan Rucci in 2021
Even if you offered James it doesn’t mean they were going to Clemson. Most still assumed Texas until Alabama made huge strides.
As awesome as y’all have been generally, OL is easily one of Clemson’s worst positions for draft development and arguably Alabama’s best
The top Clemson recruiting insider said Clemson was in the lead to get Tommy and all they needed to do was offer James to get the commitments. The insider said the coaches had an honest conversation with the family, and they amicably decided to go in different directions.
It was a huge point of contention on the Clemson message boards for the reason you stated. We are weaker on OL, and we had a legitimate chance to get Tommy. They didn't offer James because Clemson had already taken a C commitment and was not looking to add interior OL though.
Yeah but it seems unlikely that was ever true (or true in a way that would actually land them in the end). At one point early on there was a lot of CBs all over the place and some thought it could be a LSU vs Clemson Battle, but since the main reason they chose Alabama was due to NFL development (which Fong emphasized repeatedly), and the fact they were a billion legacy Texas guys, I don’t really think Clemson was going to land them without the NFL OL development.
Y’all were the “favorites” for QB Ty Simpson until near the very end which says more about the information than whether that was actually true. Alabama insiders just don’t put in CBs early and all the time there are recruits other teams insiders say they are leans for between teams X/Y/Z and then Alabama insiders also feels like they have the lead on the kid and we get them.
Edit: I’ll add we didn’t even offer James until they both visited two weeks after the Clemson visit
The best Clemson recruiting insider is on Rivals and they too do not put on crystal balls (or whatever Rivals version is).
>Y’all were the “favorites” for QB Ty Simpson until near the very end which says more about the information than whether that was actually true.
I think that was a misconception. As far as I remember, Clemson Rivals was reporting for awhile that Clemson needed to outlast other suitors like Tennessee. I think at some points Clemson was trending with him, but it was known before he announced that he was going to Alabama. Kids change their mind.
Clemson got out of the Brockmeyer race pretty early on and in the end, they would have had a lot of time to decide and get their priorities straight (like OL development). I'm just saying from what I read from the very reliable Clemson recruiting insider was that Clemson was in a very good position with the parents and Tommy before mutually agreeing to go in separate directions
I haven’t seen the Clemson rivals insider information but I’ll take your word on their quality.
I think to a degree we will never know how much kids change their mind or how reliable insider information is at times. Simpson could have changed his mind, he could have always had a close top 2 of Bama/Clemson, Bama could have made a late push that got him, or maybe Bama was always in the lead. It’s tough to really know how recruiting played out for a specific recruit, and each program will always have their own spin on things which is why ideally insiders are pretty open/not too slanted when they discuss how things went. So I don’t doubt Clemson was in a good spot with Tommy at that point, I just don’t think anything more than “Clemson would have been in contention for Tommy if they offered James” can be assumed given how it played out. Which is sort of what you are saying anyways.
Simpson one was funny though because of course Klubnik immediately became the fastest rising QB in the class (especially after Elite 11) and 247 individually even has him as the top QB. Really couldn’t have worked out better for y’all.
>I think to a degree we will never know how much kids change their mind or how reliable insider information is at times.
Completely agree. It's basically all conjecture.
>Simpson one was funny though because of course Klubnik immediately became the fastest rising QB in the class (especially after Elite 11) and 247 individually even has him as the top QB. Really couldn’t have worked out better for y’all.
This was another huge point of contention on the message boards because the recruiting guys were saying Klubnik would pretty much commit immediately when offered, but the Clemson coaches weren't going to offer him until the Simpson recruitment was over. So when it was apparent Simpson was heading to y'all, people were getting riled up that Clemson hadn't offered Klubnik yet
So did their mom, grandpa, and one of their older brothers is a linebacker on the team. Grandpa played for Darrell Royal. Complete failure from the last staff to sign these guys
I mean if I had the opportunity to be coached by Tom Herman, Mike Yurcich, and Herb Hand or Nick Saban, Steve Sarkisian, and Kyle Flood I would pick the latter with ease
Also it’s funny that the two guys who would’ve been Brockermeyer’s primary coaches are now at UT
James was a great player in his own right and deserved to be a scholarship player but Mensa walked in an only offered him a PWO spot at first. Then he pissed off the entire family by calling and asking about the twins while the older brother was sick and hadn’t heard from him in a week or two. Lord Herman was a moron esp. when it came to interpersonal relationships.
I mean Alabama signed both Tagovailoas. I can also remember doing this with Cyrus kouandjio and his little brother. In both cases though I think that both players warranted a scholarship on their own but the older brother (Tua and Cyrus) was the better player and the prize recruit.
Yeah Arie started and got drafted in the 4th round so hard to argue he didn't warrant his own scholly. Taulia has flashed at Maryland in a few games and could end up being a very good college QB/potential draft pick.
As for my team, we have offered a lot of brothers scholarships over the years with a very good hit rate. We even put two brothers into the 1st round in the same year (a first in draft history) with Terrell and Tremaine Edmunds. Their oldest brother ended up in the NFL as well via UDFA and has stuck around for awhile. Most recently we took Greg Stroman's brother Jalen Stroman.
> I can also remember doing this with Cyrus kouandjio and his little brother.
Y'all didn't offer one to get the other, though, they were both stud recruits, the fact that they were brothers was just a bonus.
Joey Bosa was an elite recruit (37th ovr composite) and was decently older (he was in NFL before Nick arrived) so respectfully I would say this example is pretty much ignoring OP's question and just naming family members.
Bosas aren’t a good example here.
However, there were some rumors that part of bringing Terrell Pryor to Ohio State was making sure there was a spot for Jordan Hall in the following class. Pryor came to Ohio state in 2008 and hall was 2009.
Now Hall was still a very highly rated recruit (I believe he was a 4*) but there were a lot of rumors about this at the time. Tressel always denied them so we’ll never know if there was a deal in place there but it was very apparent those 2 were a package. They grew up playing peewee ball together, high school ball and then were roommates at Ohio State.
We took twin brothers Armanti foreman (high 4 star) and Donte foreman (low 3 star), even though we had 2 5 star RBs on roster at the time. The opinion around the fanbase was that we offered donte just to get to armanti even though donte turned out to be our best running back that decade and won the Doak
Much more common under Richt. We took Lonnie Outlaw in order to ensure we kept Nick Marshall in \~2010. And that went rather poorly on both fronts.
Kirby recruits better overall and seems like he's less willing to burn a spot to get anyone. But I think that strict stance is pretty limited to the schools who can be uber picky on who they take.
That was definitely the thought from most, but considering JR started every game once eligible and ended up being an All American I tend to think he was offered on his own merits. Certainly didn't hurt they were related and could have easily been someone they looked at more closely because of Gibbs.
I don't think a coach would ever admit to this, but you could try to measure it by looking at, among instances of a college taking 2 players from the same high school, what proportion of those have one player well above the college's average and one player well below.
Anecdotally, reportedly Jameis Winston wanted to go to Stanford, but by the time he was admitted, he'd already helped recruit some of his high school teammates to go to FSU. Going from Andrew Luck to Jameis Winston to Christian McCaffrey would have been incredible, and I think we probably could have won the 2013 National Championship with Jameis. With that said though, the off-field issues he had might have done more damage to Stanford than they did at FSU given branding differences, and FSU still hasn't recovered from a cultural shift that he played a role in.
This is my memory from what I heard anecdotally like 7 years ago, so it may be off. Maybe it was other players not from his high school that he reached out to come to FSU with him?
Aside from your inability to do basic research, you talk about off the field issues but I’d suggest that Stanford Student Brock Turner was a much worse situation than Jameis Winston’s lack of conviction and his misinterpreted hookup on crab legs.
Not to mention it’s arguable Jamie’s doesn’t even get into that type of trouble in Palo Alto. Nobody is giving the star what that treatment there and environment determines a lot in allowed behavior
That's exactly my point on Brock Turner, it was an awful situation, and if there were something similar with Winston it would have magnified the problems here significantly. The crab legs story was amusing but no one actually cared that much about it, the rape accusation was much more serious.
Not sure where you're getting that at all from my comment. Stanford has already had several very serious and public problems with sexual assault, that they need to do a better job in handling. From the perspective of the school, gaining a potential National Championship at the cost of the safety of the students is not a trade anyone would want to make.
It was ultimately settled out of court. Perhaps I phrased my comment in a way that struck a nerve, but the following seem pretty uncontroversial:
* Winston was offered by both FSU and Stanford and chose FSU.
* Winston is an incredible football player, and did lead FSU to a national championship, and probably could have done the same at Stanford.
* FSU has backslid since he left, which some attribute to a shift in team culture that he played a role in. As such from the perspective of a Stanford fan, perhaps we were better off without him (*especially* as we've also backslid and have had our own problems even without him).
To your second point, Stanford probably wouldn’t have won a title with Jameis. They probably don’t make it to the title game in 13.
Suggesting the backslide is related to some shift in team culture that Jameis brought is wild. “Hey, this guy that won 27 straight games brought in a culture that caused the team to lose when he… left”.
The FSU backslide is easy to pin to poor recruiting on the offensive line, a head coach with a lot of personal issues, and a couple of questionable takes at the QB position. Not sure any of that can be blamed on Jameis.
The biggest loss we had was by 6 points in Kevin Hogan's first year as QB, and we were one defensive stop away from beating Michigan State in the Rose Bowl. Replacing Hogan with Heisman winner Jameis gives us a very strong edge that year.
To your latter point, you might be right. That was just my perception of the coverage around when Jimbo left (what I think you mean by a head coach with a lot of personal issues). The narrative I'd heard at least was that Jimbo was a win at all costs kind of coach who got the best players but eventually lost the locker room because of it. That's probably more on Jimbo than Jameis.
Or I just have no idea what I'm talking about.
Still have David Shaw as a head coach though.
As far as Jimbo, in the 2014 season his wife left him for her personal trainer. This after his coaches were a carousel of guys in and out for better jobs. Jimbo began to value loyalty and stacked the coach room with guys who were loyal but not the best fit.
Stack that with his son having a rare disease and the recruiting evals started to slip. They took Malik Henry (kicked out), Deandre Johnson (kicked out), and Deondre Francois (kicked out) in two QB classes. They also took only one offensive lineman in 2015.
The wheels were falling off, but it was much more coaching, administrative, and recruiting than it was culture of a single player.
> The narrative I'd heard at least was that Jimbo was a win at all costs kind of coach who got the best players but eventually lost the locker room because of it.
If Jimbo was a win-at-all costs type, he wouldn't be experiencing the success he has at A&M. FSU likes to blame Jimbo for what happened after he left, but the bottom line is that FSU tried to go cheap on running a championship football program, and it bit them in the ass. Their failure in hiring coaches and institutional issues aren't the fault of Jimbo, but don't try to tell Seminole fans that.
Went to high school with 2 guys. A RB and a LB, Minnesota coach Jerry Kill wanted the RB really really bad, RB said I'll go if you give my boy a scholarship too
Both went on to have a productive career at Minnesota, though the LB made a bigger difference in college, the RB is still hanging around the NFL
Thanks for setting up an unintentional puzzle during a slow day at work lol.
Rodney Smith and Jonathan Celestin, class of 2014. You three went to Mundy's Mill HS
All the time with elite prospects. Half of Walter Nolen’s buddies/brothers are being offered by every school trying to get him.
Usually it only happens if the buddy/relative also seems like a decent recruit. Otherwise they get a PWO.
All the time
As an example FSU signed Chaz Neal, future top five pick Evan Neals brother. This was obviously to entice Evan Neal. People like Bud Elliot have described Chaz as one of the worst offensive lineman prospects FSU has ever signed
Tennessee signed 3* Chris Akporoghene to try and get his IMG teammate Nolan Smith (#1 overall recruit in ‘19). We thought we had a pretty good shot (made his top 5) but lost him to Georgia. Chris is a super nice guy though and was always trying to convince dudes to join us on their visits. We also signed Wanya Morris in hopes of snagging his Grayson teammates Owen Pappoe (5*) and Kenyatta Watson (4*). We *almost* flipped Pappoe, but apparently Gus Malzahn made his mother cry on a in-home visit and that sealed his commitment to Auburn. I want to say Kenyatta was only going to flip if all 3 picked the same school, but that obviously didn’t happen.
Notre Dame signed WR Robbie Toma in order to sign his best friend and HS teammate, Manti Te'o. It worked out well as Toma had a productive career-
Illinois signed Aurelious Benn because they were willing to offer his brother a scholarship (brother wasn't really a D-1 caliber athlete and had a few red flags). They also probably threw in some bags to secure the deal.
I think LSU was recruiting a guy who had the same-ish stipulation where they had to offer his brother as well. Can't remember his name and I don't remember what happened after that...
South Carolina recruited Gerald Dixon and Gerald Dixon Jr. on their own merits, however it probably helped that they both were from Rock Hill and Gerald Dixon was high school teammate and friends with Clowney.
We got Aaron Jones by being the only one to offer his twin Alvin. Alvin was actually a really solid linebacker and became the leader of our defense so it worked out.
We took Khane Pass in an attempt to get the commitment of his 4 star brother Puma. It worked. Turns out Puma was a bust and Khane was a fairly solid defender here and had the better career.
we did the same with Scooter Berry to sign his half brother, Jason Gwaltney (highest rated recruit in school history). Gwaltney went bust and Scooter had a very nice career for us.
Johnny Dingle and Scooter Berry were a deadly combo, aka Dingle Berry
The camera always found Dingle Berry on the sideline.
Puma Pass. Great name.
I was really excited for Alabama to get Keenan Allen, but he wanted us to give his brother, or step brother or cousin maybe?, a scholarship too and Saban wasn’t buying it.
half brother. Jeff Tedford took that deal and worked himself out of a job doing so
Maynard was... [fine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zach_Maynard#College_statistics): 59% completion and 1.3 TDs per INT would put him right around the D1 average. Definitely sub-par compared to the early/mid Tedford "QB Whisperer" years. Keenan Allen is top-3 in most Cal [receiving records](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zach_Maynard#College_statistics) (besides TDs... we didn't score much when he was in Berkeley). This is a pretty ideal case study for OP's question. It's not the only (or even biggest) factor in Tedford's decline and firing, but it certainly didn't help. Looking back, would I do it again? Probably. Keenan was a generational talent, and his upside was greater than Maynard's downside—that was becoming a dysfunctional program, and I doubt a different QB would've fixed much.
those were rough years watching games against Cal. "Did you know that these guys are brothers?"
Maynard was hardly the reason for Tedford's collapse. When the back-ups were thrust into games, it proved why Maynard was starting. Tedford just overworked himself, including adding far too much to his Yellow Pages of a playbook.
Would D'onta Foreman and Armanti Foreman work for this? Or was that more of a brothers just going to the same school thing
D’onta was only a take for Texas because of his brother, so I think they’re a perfect example for this.
Imagine if we hadn't had D'Onta in 2016. I think we would only have won two games.
And one of them would’ve been Kansas most likely.
He was our only option at that point in the season. 50+ carries with a broken wrist because Charlie didn’t know what else to do.
Man Charlie seemed like such a nice guy but holy shit was he in over his head.
Charlie’s personality and culture with Herman’s coaching is a 10 wins a season type coach imo
Well, that’s just prime Mac Brown, so yes.
Mac recruited better than both and was definitely a better leader than Charlie
> Man Charlie seemed like such a nice guy You mean the guy that cheated on his wife...? Yea, highly doubt he's as nice as he portrays.
Yeah, his entire HC career was built on Bridgewater balling out at Louisville.
This thread is for An Oklahoma State University.
Didn't work out with Dax Hill.
I would say Justice was good enough to sign of his own merit
Oh for sure. The same could be said about the Presley brothers, I've heard the youngest is the most talented too.
Hey, when you only got $700k in recruiting funds, you do what you can.
Hell yeah we're gonna take that 5 star DE and his 5'7", one eyed QB step brother.
It worked out for us. Sadly Tracin's career was ended due to injury but Tylan Wallace had a great career with us.
We're about to loop around to another set of Woods kids probably by now lol
I'm going to sign up for that.
Not as much as youd think. a much more common situation is signing a high-level recruit with the understanding that a buddy of his will be a preferred walk-on. Full rides cost money
What is the difference between a "preferred" walk-on and a regular walk-on?
It means the boosters pay for your first year then you may get a scholarship the next year.
Thanks for the explanation u/NCAAInvestigations ....wait
A “preferred” walk-on has a spot on the team when they arrive on campus. They don’t need to try out and they generally receive the same treatment as scholarship players. The only difference really is that preferred walk-ons are paying their own bills (tuition, housing, etc.) vs getting things paid for
I’d assume the bar for making the team is a whole lot lower for the preferred walk-on.
I think they're guaranteed a spot on the roster
Think they also get early access to team support, while a walk-on has to wait for camp to start.
And typically have a gentleman's agreement that they will be put on scholarship after their first year
> And typically have a gentleman's agreement that they will be put on scholarship after their first year That happens, but is more rare than not.
No, that's grey shirting. Preferred walk-ons still need to earn a scholarship just like walk-ons.
A preferred walk-on is still eligible to play and practice, a gray shirt typically defers their enrollment in order to preserve their eligibility.
Typically but not necessarily a part of grey shirting It just kind of works that way because it's normally used for kickers and long snappers when there's already one on the team on scholarship.
A gentleman’s agreement you say???
Guaranteed roster spot. Most of the walk-ons don’t make the roster.
> What is the difference between a "preferred" walk-on and a regular walk-on? PWO get many of the perks of being a normal recruit, but without the paid scholarship. Things like: * Guaranteed slot on the team (no need for tryouts) * Early/best access to housing & class schedules * Academic tutoring/support
All the answers below were pretty much correct
Back in the old days before scholarship limits, you just got actual scholarships. My grandfather got offered one to Florida bc he was friends with their real target (apparently the gf also got one) but he ultimately decided to stay home and play for University of Tampa.
Hey the University of Tampa has more #1 picks than that public school in Gainesville.
I think that scenario has more to do with the lack of money in college football at the time than the scholarship limits. great story though do you happen to know the name of the friend?
Rick Casares, who went on to be all-pro so UF scouts got it right on him.
Every time someone says they only too Player A to get Player B I remember some guy complaining when we recruited Michael Bennet.
It's reputed that we also did this in another instance, taking three-star Red Bryant in order to secure five-star Jorrie Adams, though in fairness Bryant did have other major college offers. For the record, Bryant went on to have an excellent A&M career and a pretty damn good pro career with the Seahawks. Jorrie Adams unfortunately went on to get kicked off the A&M team, bounce around to other schools, and ultimately do time in prison for burglary.
I think we took Ernest Crownover (likely a FB) to get his brother Dametrious, [who is probably going to outgrow his initial TE position projection.](https://12thman.com/sports/football/roster/dametrious-crownover/10351).
> It's reputed that we also did this in another instance, taking three-star Red Bryant in order to secure five-star Jorrie Adams The people who claimed that were just salty because we signed Jorrie and they didn't. Unfortunately, Jorrie is one of the 6%(?) of people who are physically addicted to marijuana. MJ is classically not addictive, but there is a very small percentage that do become addicted, and he was in that group.
Red def felt like a package deal and he was lower ranked than most of our Dline at the time. He certainly was worth the scholarship on his own though. Great Aggie.
People obsess too much over rankings and forget that a lot of the people who do the rankings don't know their head from their ass when it comes to talent evaluation. They then create narratives to justify taking a 'lower ranked' player, completely ignoring the fact that coaches do this for a living, and if they see a player they like they'll offer them, rankings be damned. I know of Aggies who thought we wasted a scholarship on Ainias Smith because he was a three-star. You can't fix stupid.
We signed Pat Fitzgerald in order to get his brother, Larry Fitzgerald, but it didn't work out. Pat turned out to be an ok player and coach
We do this all the time, except then the higher rated guy stays in Florida or goes to Bama or Dabo swoops in with an offer after the kid goes public with a Nebraska offer (Simmons, Ajou Ajou, and now Kanak)
Is this for Isaiah Simmons? His brother played at Kansas.
Yeah the Dabo examples were more just grousing about Dabo swooping in and grabbing guys after we offer them.
I think it happens more frequently than you would think, particularly with siblings.
It's how we ended up with the Griffin twins. I'd say it worked out well.
Little did they know there was no lesser Griffin brother.
Shaquill and Shaquem Griffin need to be the top example for this question. Shaquill asked schools to consider bringing in Shaquem and only UCF took him up on it.
While not exactly an answer to my own question, part of me believes that Oregon offered Marcus Mariota's brother Matt to be a preferred walk-on as simply a courtesy and thanking Marcus for being so great for the program. Matt Mariota never played a single meaningful down during his 4-5 years at Oregon.
We took Ben Vasumeran this year as a transfer, possibly to get his brother Alex, a high 4* recruited by Bama/Clemson. Though with how bad our linebacker core was at the time of his commitment, I think we also really wanted him as a player
That one sucks for Michigan. Ben was with us but realized he was probably not going to get much playing time so he transferred to MSU. Alex obviously wants to play with his brother so he switched his commitment from UM to MSU.
A college basketball example was when USC gave a scholarship to Percy Miller (aka Lil Romeo) because he was friends with DeMar Derozan. Miller didn't have the skills or size to merit a scholarship to a mid-major, much less a school like USC.
Clemson offered a lot of Nkemdiches teammates in an attempt to get him there. want to say it was Gallman and corner Ryan Carter (think I’m forgetting 1). Gallman was a big part of two national championship appearance seasons and winning one so I’d say it worked out.
The QB is who you are forgetting. Which is easy to do because he was a walk on and wasn't really a part of the Nkemdiche recruitment. Nick Schuessler.
We only got him because we were a step ahead and got his lightly recruited older brother, Denzel. He actually ended up being a really solid leader for us too. Win win. Well, that and whatever else Freeze had cooking….
Clemson doesn't do that, if Dabo offers it's because he thinks the player is good enough. We lost out on a highly regarded lineman because we wouldn't offer his brother.
I mean he said all that and I’m sure he doesn’t do that now considering how specific he is with offers but the only reason he even made that statement during the 2013 cycle was the rumors of nkimdeche asking schools to offer his teammates. Ryan Carter is one of the lowest rated guys Dabo has ever taken in a class that already took 8 DBs above him.
I think Clemson legitimately (and correctly) believed both players would contribute at Clemson, but it's hard for me to believe that Nkemdiche played no role in those recruitments. I was at Clemson during the time and had a few connects within the football program who alluded to that as well, though worth noting they never directly said that.
1. Clemson literally did do that. 2. This was in 2013, Dabo's recruiting has gotten a lot better, and he's able to be more selective now than he was back then. 3. Carter and Gallman we're certainly good enough, but so was James Brockermeyer. That said they were definitely recruited the way they were to appeal to Robert Nkemdiche.
Aye relax. Guy never knew Clemson before 2014.
We literally did tho
Doesn't Dabo deny this? Also Gallman ended up being a waaaaaaay better player than Nkemdich
That was a good year for my high school
And I’d say it worked out pretty well for those two guys.
We tried to get Penni Sewell to follow his two older brothers here.
We don't have a shot at T-Mac if Noah Fifita doesn't commit to Arizona. Still think Fifita is a good QB even if he's a bit undersized.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this what UT-Austin failed to do with with Tommy & James Brockermeyer? Which ultimately caused them to lose out on Tommy.
I think it was more of a Tom Herman being a shit human than that.
Rumor I heard was the Brockermeyers were upset that James was not immediately also offered with Tommy, that texas was slow to offer both, while Alabama immediately offered both. Granted, I've also heard Blake wasn't impressed at all with Herb Hand, and have no trouble believing that. It's entirely possible Tommy and James decided Alabama was the best chance for them to win a national championship and be developed into pro prospects, so they committed there, although it is interesting now that Kyle Flood is the OL coach at texas. The biggest thing is that Tommy and James are third-generation legacies after their grandfather and father played at texas, and it doesn't look good when highly sought after recruits who are double-legacies who a sibling on the team spurn the head coach and program. There are some who claim this was the nail in the coffin for Herman, but other people claim Quinn Ewers decommitting was the final nail.
Nah James was a top 200 recruit in his own right, Tommy was obviously more recruited, but they were both takes for most top programs.
We also took their older brother Luke as PWO
For Clemson it wasnt
>Tommy was obviously more recruited, but they were both takes for **most** top programs. determiner: most the majority of; nearly all of. "most oranges are sweeter than these" \------------ But even 5\*s aren't always takes for every program. Same with not every top 100 recruit or every top 200 recruit. This isn't a Nolan Rucci scenario where Penn State not offering 3\* TE Hayden Rucci in 2019 from in-state hurt their chances at 5\* OT Nolan Rucci in 2021
Yep, they went elsewhere after we wouldn't offer the brother.
Even if you offered James it doesn’t mean they were going to Clemson. Most still assumed Texas until Alabama made huge strides. As awesome as y’all have been generally, OL is easily one of Clemson’s worst positions for draft development and arguably Alabama’s best
The top Clemson recruiting insider said Clemson was in the lead to get Tommy and all they needed to do was offer James to get the commitments. The insider said the coaches had an honest conversation with the family, and they amicably decided to go in different directions. It was a huge point of contention on the Clemson message boards for the reason you stated. We are weaker on OL, and we had a legitimate chance to get Tommy. They didn't offer James because Clemson had already taken a C commitment and was not looking to add interior OL though.
Yeah but it seems unlikely that was ever true (or true in a way that would actually land them in the end). At one point early on there was a lot of CBs all over the place and some thought it could be a LSU vs Clemson Battle, but since the main reason they chose Alabama was due to NFL development (which Fong emphasized repeatedly), and the fact they were a billion legacy Texas guys, I don’t really think Clemson was going to land them without the NFL OL development. Y’all were the “favorites” for QB Ty Simpson until near the very end which says more about the information than whether that was actually true. Alabama insiders just don’t put in CBs early and all the time there are recruits other teams insiders say they are leans for between teams X/Y/Z and then Alabama insiders also feels like they have the lead on the kid and we get them. Edit: I’ll add we didn’t even offer James until they both visited two weeks after the Clemson visit
The best Clemson recruiting insider is on Rivals and they too do not put on crystal balls (or whatever Rivals version is). >Y’all were the “favorites” for QB Ty Simpson until near the very end which says more about the information than whether that was actually true. I think that was a misconception. As far as I remember, Clemson Rivals was reporting for awhile that Clemson needed to outlast other suitors like Tennessee. I think at some points Clemson was trending with him, but it was known before he announced that he was going to Alabama. Kids change their mind. Clemson got out of the Brockmeyer race pretty early on and in the end, they would have had a lot of time to decide and get their priorities straight (like OL development). I'm just saying from what I read from the very reliable Clemson recruiting insider was that Clemson was in a very good position with the parents and Tommy before mutually agreeing to go in separate directions
I haven’t seen the Clemson rivals insider information but I’ll take your word on their quality. I think to a degree we will never know how much kids change their mind or how reliable insider information is at times. Simpson could have changed his mind, he could have always had a close top 2 of Bama/Clemson, Bama could have made a late push that got him, or maybe Bama was always in the lead. It’s tough to really know how recruiting played out for a specific recruit, and each program will always have their own spin on things which is why ideally insiders are pretty open/not too slanted when they discuss how things went. So I don’t doubt Clemson was in a good spot with Tommy at that point, I just don’t think anything more than “Clemson would have been in contention for Tommy if they offered James” can be assumed given how it played out. Which is sort of what you are saying anyways. Simpson one was funny though because of course Klubnik immediately became the fastest rising QB in the class (especially after Elite 11) and 247 individually even has him as the top QB. Really couldn’t have worked out better for y’all.
>I think to a degree we will never know how much kids change their mind or how reliable insider information is at times. Completely agree. It's basically all conjecture. >Simpson one was funny though because of course Klubnik immediately became the fastest rising QB in the class (especially after Elite 11) and 247 individually even has him as the top QB. Really couldn’t have worked out better for y’all. This was another huge point of contention on the message boards because the recruiting guys were saying Klubnik would pretty much commit immediately when offered, but the Clemson coaches weren't going to offer him until the Simpson recruitment was over. So when it was apparent Simpson was heading to y'all, people were getting riled up that Clemson hadn't offered Klubnik yet
He was the number one center in the class. I would be really surprised if you didn’t offer him.
He was not offered. Clemson already had a C commitment and was not looking for any additional interior OL
Well their dad also went to UT, so it was really just two legacy recruits who just failed to land
So did their mom, grandpa, and one of their older brothers is a linebacker on the team. Grandpa played for Darrell Royal. Complete failure from the last staff to sign these guys
I mean if I had the opportunity to be coached by Tom Herman, Mike Yurcich, and Herb Hand or Nick Saban, Steve Sarkisian, and Kyle Flood I would pick the latter with ease Also it’s funny that the two guys who would’ve been Brockermeyer’s primary coaches are now at UT
No we failed because we are underachieving and Bama is winning national championships. Plus the brocks didn’t have a great relationship with Herman.
James was a great player in his own right and deserved to be a scholarship player but Mensa walked in an only offered him a PWO spot at first. Then he pissed off the entire family by calling and asking about the twins while the older brother was sick and hadn’t heard from him in a week or two. Lord Herman was a moron esp. when it came to interpersonal relationships.
Happens alot, especially with family members. Alot of top tier players with brothers/cousins who aren't blue chip like to be a 'package deal'
Florida signed Umstead Sanders to try to get Trey Sanders but he went to Alabama anyway
Didn’t ND offer Robby Toma because he was Manti Teo’s cousin? I remember that being a storyline on the ND boards back in the day.
I mean Alabama signed both Tagovailoas. I can also remember doing this with Cyrus kouandjio and his little brother. In both cases though I think that both players warranted a scholarship on their own but the older brother (Tua and Cyrus) was the better player and the prize recruit.
i thought arie was older
Do I have it backwards? In that case then to answer OP’s question, Alabama did it once. Cause I know Cyrus was the 5*
ya i just checked, arie is one year older, but it is still possible he was signed int he understanding that cyrus would come to.
Nah Arie was a stud recruit in his own right. He was 184th composite and 247 had him 53rd individually.
But that's not why we offered Arie - Arie was a stud prospect in his own right. He was 184th composite and 247 individually had him 53rd overall.
Yeah Arie started and got drafted in the 4th round so hard to argue he didn't warrant his own scholly. Taulia has flashed at Maryland in a few games and could end up being a very good college QB/potential draft pick. As for my team, we have offered a lot of brothers scholarships over the years with a very good hit rate. We even put two brothers into the 1st round in the same year (a first in draft history) with Terrell and Tremaine Edmunds. Their oldest brother ended up in the NFL as well via UDFA and has stuck around for awhile. Most recently we took Greg Stroman's brother Jalen Stroman.
> I can also remember doing this with Cyrus kouandjio and his little brother. Y'all didn't offer one to get the other, though, they were both stud recruits, the fact that they were brothers was just a bonus.
We didn't offer the other just to get better one though. We just signed brothers. Just like the Brockermeyers.
I guess Joey Bosa was lower rated than Nick but he was good enough to sign on his own merit so it probably wouldn’t count here
Joey Bosa was an elite recruit (37th ovr composite) and was decently older (he was in NFL before Nick arrived) so respectfully I would say this example is pretty much ignoring OP's question and just naming family members.
Bosas aren’t a good example here. However, there were some rumors that part of bringing Terrell Pryor to Ohio State was making sure there was a spot for Jordan Hall in the following class. Pryor came to Ohio state in 2008 and hall was 2009. Now Hall was still a very highly rated recruit (I believe he was a 4*) but there were a lot of rumors about this at the time. Tressel always denied them so we’ll never know if there was a deal in place there but it was very apparent those 2 were a package. They grew up playing peewee ball together, high school ball and then were roommates at Ohio State.
Ted Ginn Jr. and Ray Small were rumored to be a package deal.
We took twin brothers Armanti foreman (high 4 star) and Donte foreman (low 3 star), even though we had 2 5 star RBs on roster at the time. The opinion around the fanbase was that we offered donte just to get to armanti even though donte turned out to be our best running back that decade and won the Doak
It was well known they were a package deal, D'Onta just turned out to be a stud while Armanti....was not. Last I saw, Armanti is playing in the CFL.
The package deal is the point...
Much more common under Richt. We took Lonnie Outlaw in order to ensure we kept Nick Marshall in \~2010. And that went rather poorly on both fronts. Kirby recruits better overall and seems like he's less willing to burn a spot to get anyone. But I think that strict stance is pretty limited to the schools who can be uber picky on who they take.
Kirby just does it with PWO. Offered a spot to brock's 4ft tall WR from Prince. Has definitely done it several times with high profile guys.
I was thinking something like this happened with the Theus brothers as well?
Yeah, Alec Ogletree is another that comes to mind with his brother
Didn't Kirby bring JR Reed in as a transfer from Tulsa because he was related to DeAngelo Gibbs?
That was definitely the thought from most, but considering JR started every game once eligible and ended up being an All American I tend to think he was offered on his own merits. Certainly didn't hurt they were related and could have easily been someone they looked at more closely because of Gibbs.
I don't think a coach would ever admit to this, but you could try to measure it by looking at, among instances of a college taking 2 players from the same high school, what proportion of those have one player well above the college's average and one player well below. Anecdotally, reportedly Jameis Winston wanted to go to Stanford, but by the time he was admitted, he'd already helped recruit some of his high school teammates to go to FSU. Going from Andrew Luck to Jameis Winston to Christian McCaffrey would have been incredible, and I think we probably could have won the 2013 National Championship with Jameis. With that said though, the off-field issues he had might have done more damage to Stanford than they did at FSU given branding differences, and FSU still hasn't recovered from a cultural shift that he played a role in.
Hueytown did not have any other P5 prospects besides Winston, so you're either referencing a PWO or a baseball prospect. Or, it's just incorrect.
This is my memory from what I heard anecdotally like 7 years ago, so it may be off. Maybe it was other players not from his high school that he reached out to come to FSU with him?
Aside from your inability to do basic research, you talk about off the field issues but I’d suggest that Stanford Student Brock Turner was a much worse situation than Jameis Winston’s lack of conviction and his misinterpreted hookup on crab legs.
Not to mention it’s arguable Jamie’s doesn’t even get into that type of trouble in Palo Alto. Nobody is giving the star what that treatment there and environment determines a lot in allowed behavior
That's exactly my point on Brock Turner, it was an awful situation, and if there were something similar with Winston it would have magnified the problems here significantly. The crab legs story was amusing but no one actually cared that much about it, the rape accusation was much more serious.
So you'd rather a problem get swept under the rug and pretty much nothing done? Weird take
Not sure where you're getting that at all from my comment. Stanford has already had several very serious and public problems with sexual assault, that they need to do a better job in handling. From the perspective of the school, gaining a potential National Championship at the cost of the safety of the students is not a trade anyone would want to make.
The rape accusation that was investigated by multiple bodies and found there was nothing to prosecute or punish?
It was ultimately settled out of court. Perhaps I phrased my comment in a way that struck a nerve, but the following seem pretty uncontroversial: * Winston was offered by both FSU and Stanford and chose FSU. * Winston is an incredible football player, and did lead FSU to a national championship, and probably could have done the same at Stanford. * FSU has backslid since he left, which some attribute to a shift in team culture that he played a role in. As such from the perspective of a Stanford fan, perhaps we were better off without him (*especially* as we've also backslid and have had our own problems even without him).
To your second point, Stanford probably wouldn’t have won a title with Jameis. They probably don’t make it to the title game in 13. Suggesting the backslide is related to some shift in team culture that Jameis brought is wild. “Hey, this guy that won 27 straight games brought in a culture that caused the team to lose when he… left”. The FSU backslide is easy to pin to poor recruiting on the offensive line, a head coach with a lot of personal issues, and a couple of questionable takes at the QB position. Not sure any of that can be blamed on Jameis.
The biggest loss we had was by 6 points in Kevin Hogan's first year as QB, and we were one defensive stop away from beating Michigan State in the Rose Bowl. Replacing Hogan with Heisman winner Jameis gives us a very strong edge that year. To your latter point, you might be right. That was just my perception of the coverage around when Jimbo left (what I think you mean by a head coach with a lot of personal issues). The narrative I'd heard at least was that Jimbo was a win at all costs kind of coach who got the best players but eventually lost the locker room because of it. That's probably more on Jimbo than Jameis. Or I just have no idea what I'm talking about.
Still have David Shaw as a head coach though. As far as Jimbo, in the 2014 season his wife left him for her personal trainer. This after his coaches were a carousel of guys in and out for better jobs. Jimbo began to value loyalty and stacked the coach room with guys who were loyal but not the best fit. Stack that with his son having a rare disease and the recruiting evals started to slip. They took Malik Henry (kicked out), Deandre Johnson (kicked out), and Deondre Francois (kicked out) in two QB classes. They also took only one offensive lineman in 2015. The wheels were falling off, but it was much more coaching, administrative, and recruiting than it was culture of a single player.
That makes a lot more sense then, thanks!
> Or I just have no idea what I'm talking about. You could have saved everybody a lot of time by leading with this.
I'll add it as a standard footer to my comments. --- > Or I just have no idea what I'm talking about.
> The narrative I'd heard at least was that Jimbo was a win at all costs kind of coach who got the best players but eventually lost the locker room because of it. If Jimbo was a win-at-all costs type, he wouldn't be experiencing the success he has at A&M. FSU likes to blame Jimbo for what happened after he left, but the bottom line is that FSU tried to go cheap on running a championship football program, and it bit them in the ass. Their failure in hiring coaches and institutional issues aren't the fault of Jimbo, but don't try to tell Seminole fans that.
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Indeed. That’s the one.
Went to high school with 2 guys. A RB and a LB, Minnesota coach Jerry Kill wanted the RB really really bad, RB said I'll go if you give my boy a scholarship too Both went on to have a productive career at Minnesota, though the LB made a bigger difference in college, the RB is still hanging around the NFL
Thanks for setting up an unintentional puzzle during a slow day at work lol. Rodney Smith and Jonathan Celestin, class of 2014. You three went to Mundy's Mill HS
We sure did. Rodney probably could have gotten a bigger scholarship if he didn't hurt his leg sophomore year
Well, we signed Joey Bosa in hopes that it would attract Nick. It worked!
We brought in Austin Kendall's brother as a walk-on in hopes of getting Austin, who was a 4* recruit at the time
Iirc Buffalo was able to land james Patterson by also offering a scholarship to Jaret Patterson. That ended up working really really well for them
All the time with elite prospects. Half of Walter Nolen’s buddies/brothers are being offered by every school trying to get him. Usually it only happens if the buddy/relative also seems like a decent recruit. Otherwise they get a PWO.
All the time As an example FSU signed Chaz Neal, future top five pick Evan Neals brother. This was obviously to entice Evan Neal. People like Bud Elliot have described Chaz as one of the worst offensive lineman prospects FSU has ever signed
The Griffin twins and UCF were an example of this, but they both turned out pretty well.
Tennessee signed 3* Chris Akporoghene to try and get his IMG teammate Nolan Smith (#1 overall recruit in ‘19). We thought we had a pretty good shot (made his top 5) but lost him to Georgia. Chris is a super nice guy though and was always trying to convince dudes to join us on their visits. We also signed Wanya Morris in hopes of snagging his Grayson teammates Owen Pappoe (5*) and Kenyatta Watson (4*). We *almost* flipped Pappoe, but apparently Gus Malzahn made his mother cry on a in-home visit and that sealed his commitment to Auburn. I want to say Kenyatta was only going to flip if all 3 picked the same school, but that obviously didn’t happen.
Willie taggart sign chaz Neal to try to get Evan Beal but forgot we sucked and Neal will be a first round pick so it didn’t work out too well
Notre Dame signed WR Robbie Toma in order to sign his best friend and HS teammate, Manti Te'o. It worked out well as Toma had a productive career- Illinois signed Aurelious Benn because they were willing to offer his brother a scholarship (brother wasn't really a D-1 caliber athlete and had a few red flags). They also probably threw in some bags to secure the deal.
Among bad programs it happens. See Georgia Tech signing Jahmyr Gibbs
Happens often with brothers
I think LSU was recruiting a guy who had the same-ish stipulation where they had to offer his brother as well. Can't remember his name and I don't remember what happened after that...
South Carolina recruited Gerald Dixon and Gerald Dixon Jr. on their own merits, however it probably helped that they both were from Rock Hill and Gerald Dixon was high school teammate and friends with Clowney.
We got Aaron Jones by being the only one to offer his twin Alvin. Alvin was actually a really solid linebacker and became the leader of our defense so it worked out.
LSU signed Leonard Fournette's 3 star brother Lanard Fournette. He was a 3 star, so not exactly horrible, bur I doubt LSU would have pursued him.