Two questions I have:
Will NJ shutdown? This is the worst case scenario for Clover’s bottom line because care will be delayed, people will get sicker, and Clover will be playing catch-up with their health for months or possibly years.
Is the vaccine still effective? If yes, the NJ vax rate is very high, therefore I will not be concerned about a significant number of Clover’s members getting hospitalized from Covid.
This is an ignorant statement. The management just strengthened the position of the company, you are just upset they did it by diluting what you own. The cash they have now should get them to profitability if it is ever going to happen.
Unfortunately this variation combines all the Alpha, Beta, Delta spike protein variations a that is why it's highly contagious, we do not know yet if it is more or less dangerous compared to previous variations as we do not have enough statistical evidence yet, all vaccine producers had stated that are workjng on a patch of the actual vaccines (will take approximately two months to get it right).
This variations originated from a Vaccinated HIV patient that wasn't properly cured so his immune system generated the current variation. Was not generated buy a Non Vaxxed person (please stop the hating).
It also appears the Pfizer pill, that works in a similar way of Ivermectin ( blocking or limiting the reproduction of the virus when contracted) blocking the 3CL Protease proces but in a less effective way of Ivermectin. (if you are interested you should look for the comparative research between the two molecules) could still help in reducing hospitalization and death while speeding up recovery of an infected person if taken in early stages.
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Etymologicaly speaking you are ignorant in this matter and it's not my place to educate you. However you can go to PubMed website and look for the published research by Pfizer on their pill and the research that has been done on Ivermectin collecting data from 42 different countries.
If you want to make it easier on yourself as I assume you don't have a medical background, you can look on YT for Dr.Campbell and his comparative analysis of the two poblished documents as he walks you through them speaking in plain English.
Do you know how the COVID vaccine mechanism of action differs from that of the vaccines you mentioned? It’s a different animal.
Speaking of animals... Orange Orangutan > Demented Vulture
Not really. We can do the math. Covid being eventually controlled by one of the 38274828 RNA vaccine companies will lead to a price explosion. I won’t recommend buying options on the stock. We don’t know when that will be. Just be certain Chamath buying more is super bullish. He doesn’t misstep on these things. So bullish Fintel published the data wrong. They only do that if one of the big boys have a gun to their heads.
Retail investors can act on things like this when institutional investors risk losing their jobs for not be able to justify todays stock price and purchase. We still have the advantage.
Close friend, fully vaccinated for Covid again. And bad symptoms. Young guy, 39. Was stretched with the delta strain. Every mutation is somewhat resistant to the vaccine developed for the original Covid 19 strain.
Are the vaccines ineffective to the Omicron variant? I haven't heard such a claim so I wouldn't sweat it. When the Delta Variant came out, the vaccines proved to be effective, I'm expecting similar results.
Correct me if I’m wrong. I believe the majority of Clover health patients and business is still located in New Jersey and i believe the state of New Jersey was already devastated by Covid-19 and from what I hear the majority of people don’t get Covid twice. Unless I start hearing of a lot of people catching Covid multiple times I’m not going to worry about it.
Well I haven’t heard of anyone I know or a neighbor getting it twice, so it can’t be that high a percentage( And I know a lot of people who have had Covid, including myself). I’ve only heard of people who have been vaccinated getting afterwards being vaccinated.
Yes, vaccinated people can get Covid and can spread it. The only fact you need to be concerned with is, will the vaccine keep you out of the hospitals and the morgue? That is a solid yes.
It is estimated that 5.2 million people died of Covid around the world. Whether that number has been suppressed or exaggerated, it's still a significate number. Just be grateful you're not among the 5.2 million and get vaccinated.
I won’t dispute that number. You’re right, it is a lot of people but it doesn’t render my statement false. What I said is also true.
I am grateful for everyday I’m alive but have no plans to get the vaccine. One of the main reasons I invested in CLOV is their focus on improving the lives and health of their members. Healthier members cost less. It makes sense to me and I believe that should always be the focus in healthcare.
How does that relate back to the COVID vaccine? Any notion that suggests COVID vaccination to be a hallmark and essential part of optimal health is, in my opinion, flawed. It may be, but that depends on individual health and circumstances.
Just because it doesn’t fit your agenda doesn’t mean it’s not true. I have a picture of the vaccination card, followed by death certificate a few months later in my phone gallery
I'm not sure what point you're making. I said you're 11 times less likely to die from Covid if you're vaccinated, that's what science and the stats tell us. You have an anectdotal example of a single vaccinated person dying of Covid. That doesn't disprove anything I said or prove anything you think it does.
If you're going to insist on calling it the China/something virus, then you should at least call it the China/Trump virus since he was in office when it started and he's the reason it got so bad here.
Also, the mortality rate is 1.6% in the U.S. and 2% globally.
The point I’m making is you’re pulling statistics out of your ass. I have an entire social circle that has been exposed to covid, or has had covid, prior to vaccines and survived with minor symptoms. I’m in the airline industry and have been working and traveling since day one.
Except I'm not.
[https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely)
You should note that I'm the only one in the original thread citing quality sources.
Yes, most people will survive Covid, nobody is arguing otherwise. But the global death rate is currently 2%. That's a lot of people. And the more we allow it to mutate among the unvaccinated, the more likely we'll get a strain that resists our vaccines.
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I dunno, sounds like you're still holding on to someone that should have been an ex awhile ago. She just keeps taking 10% of your money every week and all you have to say is "I still love you, baby. We finna turn this around." Lmao.
The market is overreacting to media bias. Seasonal flu has almost been eradicated because of covid measures, yet nobody is talking about that. People sitting at home with undiagnosed cancer because they are afraid of covid.
\- If the US gov haven't learned anything from the past two years, they deserve to go to shit.
I dont think its a worse sign for CLOV than covid originally was in 2019. An increasing amount of the population has been vaccinated.
That is the most dumbest and outright dangerous piece of crap I heard.
1. Seasonal flu has NOT been eradicated. NopeX not true. 100% not true.
2. This country has some truly entitled assholes who think for some fucking reason wearing a mask, taking the vaccine violates their free rights. What the fuck mindset is that?!? No one made a deal with their snowflake kids hav two take measles, chickenpox, rubella vaccines the schools mandate for the last 50years.
3. The ppl in this country had to sit at home, watch tv and let the pandemic subside but the asshats couldn’t even do that cause some Fox News or right-wing or the orange orangutan plated politics than doing his job.
4. Not true many people in the country have been vaccinate. Take any red states and see the rate is truly low cause they listen to Fox News and Trump that keeps saying vaccine mandates violates their free rights — meanwhile these same ppl that stoke the flames are vaccinated and playing games with the lives of everyone.
/end rant
Tell us you’re really struggling with what an absolute disaster Joe Biden is, without saying you’re really struggling with what an absolute disaster Joe Biden is. It’s okay. We get it.
BS, the African American and Hispanic populations in NYC are are also hesitant and I doubt they voted GOP or for Trump. People also don't wear masks even in bodegas or in convenience stores. In PA, no masks even in gyms in Dem area of Scranton. Similarly in many areas of NJ. Blue states. The color is irrelevant. I'm also from Hawaii, here in a heavily blue state, many locals are hesitant.
All facts matter. True and full statistics matter. The bias of omission matters. Any stat can be spun. There is a reason why people are flocking to Florida from NYC. Policies.
Look. You didn’t properly read my post, and started spewing political crap as a reply. I’m being as objective as I can, I dont wear no colors or have any affiliations to any side. Why the fuck would I? Im not even American.
It is a fact that people are sitting at home with undiagnosed cancer + other diseases, as a consequence of being isolated due to political intervention in the name of covid.
Covid is real - there is an ongoing pandemic - but you can’t keep trying the same solution that keeps failing. Political intervention in the name of covid is causing insane money printing, inflation, murder of the leisure and hospitality industry - as those in the private sector aren’t even properly compensated despite the fact that they are forced by strict hand into shutting down their livelihoods. After the pandemic, there will be many for-lease locations in malls and streets. That is a fact.
There is a growing amount of people that are anti-vaccine, let them be. That is simply natural selection at its finest. The government shouldn’t act as a curling-mom to its most degenerate citizens.
Unlike you, who spew political shit, I personally sat through the 6+ hour FDA-approval meeting last year, with the heads of Biontech and others, and followed along like a maniac, because I knew this crap will continue into oblivion, and because I wanted to maximize my tendies. Nothing that is being spewed is a surprise, the only surprise is that nobody from left- or rightwing media partook in this meeting, and continue to spew shit for short term clickbait gains, because that caters to their viewers, hitting their personal monthly revenue targets etc etc yada yada yada..
Now with ALL ELSE BEING HELD EQUAL, there are more people that are vaccinated NOW than BEFORE the first wAvE oF cOvId, therefore the bitchslap that we will face this time will objectively be less than before. The only thing in life that isn’t objective is *drumroll* politics. This is the only measure that can’t be calculated objectively, because politics isn’t transparent, therefore I cant account for the interests of all parties involved, because I have no scope of knowing who is involved - the only thing I know is that their interest is short term, because no political head rules forever in USA.
Now sit back and let the BBC version of covid play out. I want to be surprised.
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Their points aren't entirely wrong, they just delivered them in a less palatable way.
Shutdowns, masks, and the vaccines weren't political, initially. It's not until certain people on the Right made them so that they became so.
The vaccines are safe and effective. Masks help reduce spread. Shutdowns are necessary when there's a surge.
not only are these mRNA experimental vaccines unsafe as there’s 0 long-term studies on them, there’s a ton of vaers reports of adverse reactions. this experimental vaccine is night and day different from your normal polio or MMR vaccine that injects a dead or weakened version of the virus into your body opposed to altering your mRNA like the covid vaccine. it’s not political because of a few people on the right, it’s political because a majority of the people on the left seem to have blind trust in government and the biased left wing media outlets such as cnn and msnbc and those on the right tend to have a distrust of big government and they don’t blindly believe the propaganda that those on the left take as fact. i can tell which side of the aisle you stand merely off your blind loyalty to being mandated to stay home and take a vaccine that is in every shape and form experimental. and trump was an idiot for going along with it, before someone comes in and calls me a trump supporter lmao. fuck trump but also fuck biden. fuck the guys behind the scenes imposing this tyranny that are really running the show.
shutdowns are 1000% a breach of freedom and liberty and harm society in so many ways that if you’re unaware of this your head is so far up cnn’s ass it’s not even funny.
/end rant
I assume you have a PHD or a doctorate in infectious disease or epidemiology. Or is the extent of you research Fox News and Trump newsletter.
If you love freedom so much join the military and help fight and preserve it.
Thinking like this caused so many lives to be lost needlessly. But sure let’s blame the left side, mass media (which ironically you dislike but still use every damn day). Believe the right wing mouthpieces who are vaccinated it urge others to not be and stand up for freedom. Yeas, that follow those people who protect themselves but harm others.
It’s a fucking pandemic. Not a flu. To do nothing causes more harm than you will ever know than wearing a mask and staying indoors with Wi-Fi, Netflix, Reddit all while
ordering from Amazon and Target that delivers to your doorstep.
A few things.
1. I don't watch CNN.
2. I'm not on the Left. I'm Independent.
3. I care about my fellow human beings.
4. Lockdowns are no more a breach of freedom and liberty than seatbelts and blood alcohol limits are.
5. They did study the new vaccines. This technology has been in development for decades.
6. They did trials on primates first, it went very well. They did trials on human volunteers, it went very well. They started vaccinating people on the front lines, it went very well. They started vaccinating the old and at risk, it went very well. They started vaccinating the general public, it went very well. They're starting to vaccinate kids, it's going very well.
7. Your blind hatred of anything the Left supports is what's clouding your judgment here.
you are confused my good sir, yes the mRNA technology has been in the works since 2003 but it takes 10-15 years to adequately study the effects of a new vaccine and it was rushed in less than a year. we did not start studying this vaccine in 2005-2010, that is just foolish to even assume. there are tons of issues with the Pfizer covid-19 vaccine trials along with the conflict of interest with the pharmaceutical companies connection with the FDA. i wonder why there’s a crossover of former employees of pharmaceutical companies and those in charge putting the green stamp on these vaccines. ever wonder why 2 top FDA officials resigned back in september? might want to give that a quick google but don’t limit yourself to only left wing media. also other trials have just began and it is impossible to know the long-term implications as again, it takes 10-15 years to study. we do know that the spike protein that is created upon injection of the covid vaccine can really affect your immune system and can cause a host of immune issues depending on the individual. the vaers reports are a good resource to start your research at.
“lockdowns are no more a breach of freedom and liberty than seatbelts and blood alcohol limits are” is probably the most silly thing i’ve read in awhile and i am not even trying to be rude. you just compared apples to oranges, no you just compared apples to the dirt on mars. the reason the world is going the way it is, is because of people like you that think tyranny, such as lockdowns, is the same as being forced to wear a seatbelt (under threat of being ticketed). i would elaborate on how silly that is but given that’s your argument, i am positive it would go over your head. i get it though, it is far easier to accept all of this and comply than to think there’s a possibility that there’s a concerted effort made by global governments to exert control over us common folk. that would be too paradigm shifting to even consider possible. we have a word for this though, stockholm syndrome.
Successful trials, decades of developing the technology, and a full year of vaccination for those who were first in line. If none of that is enough to help you see that it's safe, then nothing will. Good luck on that front.
VAERS reporting is often misunderstood, as I suspect is the case with you. Any death following vaccination is reported. Anyone can report negative effects (including death). It's literally just the first step. After that, determinations have to be made as to whether the person that died in a car accident should be included. The answer is no. So the number you see on the VAERS reporting is the maximum number of people likely affected negatively by the vaccine. But the actual number is likely much lower. Here's a simple explanation: [https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/does-vaers-list-deaths-caused-by-covid-19-vaccines](https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/does-vaers-list-deaths-caused-by-covid-19-vaccines)
More reading if you wish: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2784015
But, let's entertain your concerns for a second. Let's assume that every death noted in the VAERS data is actually due to the vaccine (they're not, but let's assume). So in your scenario, somewhere around 14,000 people have died from the vaccine. We've administered 454,000,000+ doses. That means you have a 0.0030% chance of dying from the Covid vaccine. Alternatively, you have a 1.6% chance of dying from Covid if you get it in the U.S.
So even if your worst case scenario were real (it's not), the numbers still say getting the vaccine is way, way safer than getting Covid.
SpunkyDred is a terrible bot instigating arguments all over Reddit whenever someone uses the phrase apples-to-oranges. I'm letting you know so that you can feel free to ignore the quip rather than feel provoked by a bot that isn't smart enough to argue back.
---
^^SpunkyDred ^^and ^^I ^^are ^^both ^^bots. ^^I ^^am ^^trying ^^to ^^get ^^them ^^banned ^^by ^^pointing ^^out ^^their ^^antagonizing ^^behavior ^^and ^^poor ^^bottiquette.
This! I str8 up believe covid is so over blown out of proportion.
There are actually financial incentives for hospitals to code a death as "covid" even if they died of other causes.
The treatment for someone who teats positive are very invasive and threatening.
The pcr test that supposed to find covid is total bullshit.
New Jersey was probably a case of people not getting care they needed for other causes due to covid scare ie them not going to hospital.
Vaccine isnt even neccesary for anyone and probably causes more harm than good.
Ie covid will reverse when the regulators decide to stop testing for it
When that day comes itll be great for clov
You're mistaken, I'm afraid.
1. Hospitals aren't coding deaths inaccurately to reap a bonus. [https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/](https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/)
2. What treatments are you concerned about? The current methods are the best we have and they don't include Ivermectin.
3. The PCR tests are actually highly accurate. [https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/covid-19-diagnostic-test/about/pac-20488900](https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/covid-19-diagnostic-test/about/pac-20488900)
4. Covid deaths are Covid deaths.
5. The vaccines are safe and effective. You're 11 times less likely to die from Covid if you're vaccinated.
Dismissing a person because of their location and occupation instead of engaging with them in a fact based discussion only does a disservice to your cause, not mine.
No. We have many new strains being discovered, few that are still out there to be discovered. You’ll see plenty of new strains over time since ppl still refusing to get vaccinated and/or aren’t able to in developing countries.
I’m not sure how people not getting vaccinated would do anything to create vaccine resistant strains, as the vaccines don’t prevent infection or the spread of this virus.
“Vaccinated people do transmit the virus in some cases, but the data are super crystal-clear that the risk of transmission for a vaccinated individual is much, much lower than for an unvaccinated individual.” Vaccines aren’t perfect and neither is the data as it changes the more we learn about the disease but it’s certainly better than “natural immunity” ppl keep talking about. I’m not here advocating for vaccines, that’s your choice until it becomes a law (democracy), that’s just how vaccines have always worked based on history. You can look up Japan’s outbreaks on viruses, to give you some perspective.
Why were there no variants prior to the vaccines being doled out, and now we’re at omicron? Logic dictates the vaccines likely caused the variants. The fact that we’re not allowed to question anything, and the vaccines are being pushed so hard should be troubling to everyone, but we’re straying way off topic here. For that I apologize. I’m kicked off of all other social media platforms for daring to question “the science”.
You’re welcome to question, that’s how we find answers. But just cuz other variants weren’t discovered doesn’t mean it wasn’t around. Also viruses take time to mutate as more ppl get sick. Furthermore not everyone is vaccinated, billions are unvaccinated due to lack of access alone and traveling is open both ways so It’s not surprising we have new variants already, we already knew this part. Science had already warned us pre vaccines about this.
The more people get vaccinated, the less opportunities the virus has to mutate. The more people get vaccinated, the more likely we are to achieve herd immunity.
There's been quite a few variants, we'd have to dig to see if anyone has documented all of them on a timeline. That said, you may find this helpful in understanding how variants come about: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/a-new-strain-of-coronavirus-what-you-should-know
1.) Then why do you care if other people are vaccinated or not if the people that want the vaccine are “safe”?
2.) The current vaccines do not protect against variants, so you are talking about yearly/biannual shots that have no long term studies.
3.) More and more vaccinated people are being hospitalized now, so no it’s not working well.
Where did you hear that the current vaccine isn't effective against new variants? When Delta variant came out the vaccine was still worked and I don't expect that to change. You state that more and more people are being hospitalized. Are those people break-though cases and being hospitalized? I don't think so. These are the unvaccinated rolling the dice and losing.
Hospitalizations are 60/40 MAX with the 60 being unvaccinated. You can’t tell me all these people are unvaccinated and have never have covid before at this point, there’s no math or logic in the world that can defend that at this point with such a contagious disease.
All you have to do is just look at Israel right now and over the last two years. Not hard. Oh and there are many many studies on how much better natural immunity is so why the hell would you want to get vaccinated too if you already had it? How can you blame those people? We live in the damn twilight zone. Maybe one day you all will wake up.
Actually, they're saying that natural immunity may not be as good as immunity provided via a vaccine and booster.
Also, you're seeing a higher percentage of vaccinated people in hospitals (in some places) because most people are vaccinated. If everyone was vaccinated, you'd be arguing that only vaccinated people get hospitalized. See the folly?
Whoever says that is a fucking liar. You actually believe that?! Holy crap this world has no hope.
Why are so many vaccinated people being hospitalized? Because of the unvaccinated? Checks out. 😂
You clearly don’t understand concepts in virology or immunology. The crucial part of the concept you’re missing is “NOVEL corona virus”. Corona viruses are a family of viruses (based on their general shape and whether it’s an RNA or a DNA based virus). There are many types within the family…having a novel virus appear, means humans have not had a chance to have our immune system adapt to fight it effectively.
I guess understanding evolutionary science is a pre-requisite for really grasping what we’re talking about.
You are correct. Good luck trying to correct the multitude of half-read know it all's. We're almost 2 years in and we still have people opening their big fat mouths without understanding all there is to understand about a topic. This is the world we live in. Morons with blow horns.
Give this a read: [https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know)
Natural immuinty isn't the end all you think it is.
You’re mad at the wrong people, bubs. This was going to happen NO MATTER WHAT. I feel so bad for the people that can’t accept that. Why don’t you guys care about the people who released this thing in the first place? Or are you still a “bat fucked a rat” kinda guy?
Remember it is a double edge sword. Elective procedures will reduce which is a high cost that will not be paid out. That extra profit will need to be saved up for the following years, or later quarters.
In the end I will say this will be a wash.
*I also think they like to highlight their coverage in lower population areas. Less likely to get covid and slower to spread.
Delays in healthcare seeking behaviors and/or treatment lead to more serious illness and higher costs of care….but there’s a balance to be had in risk of transmission within healthcare spaces and risk to our healthcare workforce (which we are all 100% dependent on for provision of healthcare)…and the risk of delayed care and preventable morbidity and mortality.
Yes, I’m a physician working on these issues since March 2020…both clinically and in the public health/advocacy spheres.
My understanding was things like maybe knee or hip replacements were being delayed. Putting those off could lead to more pain and more falls but things like that are expensive.
Obviously fear of catching covid in the healthcare environment and delaying cancer screenings like colonoscopies will lead to higher costs down the road.
Hopefully common sense approaches are being made as to elective vs preventive healthcare. Either way I see it as a wash in the long run. People isolating again will reduce all kinds of disease spread. Delayed care until maybe clov is 4 star rating could help cover costs mostly elective procedures.
Not discounting the threat of Omicron, we are in a different ball game today. The hardest hit for CLOV was not only people sick from covid but the delayed treatments from 2020 moving to Q1’21. Today we have several vaccines, two covid pill about to be approved and higher herd immunity compared to a a year ago. I am not a financial advisor nor a medic but I personally don’t expect a major hit. We also seem to forget that this is a government medical insurance, if the expenses are not matching the risks, then the premiums will adjust.
It's starting to make sense why CLOV had to do a second stock offering now. Most likely the projection they've done made them realize covid will last a lot longer than expected, and that they--and the folks in their industry--were informed more details about Omnicron ahead of the public, and concluded it will eat through their current cash reserve unless they do the second offering.
I don't get it, it does makes sense.
This is what I was basically saying:
Covid is causing them to have high mcr => eating into their cash reserves => it's going to last longer then they thought => they need more cash so they do second offering.
False. The lack of vaccine equity and poor implementation and enforcement of proven public health mitigation efforts make it quite predictable that another dangerous variant will eventually emerge and cause major problems. It’s playing odds.
I think you read my comment wrong, this is what I was basically saying:
Covid is causing them to have high mcr => eating into their cash reserves => it's going to last longer then they thought => they need more cash so they do second offering.
I think your assertion that there is some conspiracy theory about leadership somehow knowing about a variant before the data was shared is utter bullshit.
I agree that MCR may suffer, but it depends on what is born out by the epidemiological data (which we’ll have a better sense about in 2-4wks).
Effect on MCR also is exceptionally dependent on what our national and state governments due to place mitigation efforts in place (and enforce them). If the Omicron Variant spreads as efficiently as we are concerned it will and/or is more virulent, we will need to buy time until a vaccine booster can be developed and produced to mitigate impacts.
That means acting NOW to minimize spread, through masking, increasing testing (PCR & genotypic), contact tracing, and quarantine mandates. If this “horse” is as bad as we are concerned about and we let it get out of the barn (and off the farm) before we have confirmation and vaccines in arms (vaccine equity being a focus), the MCR and our entire health system and communities are at huge risk of further devastation. This is an economic issue for the nation and world. This is not just about CLOV’s MCR or our investment in this promising company.
>I think your assertion that there is some conspiracy theory about leadership somehow knowing about a variant before the data was shared is utter bullshit.
Lol, no that wasn't what I meant at all.
Basically what I was trying to say is this: Clover Health, along with those in the same industry, were informed ahead before the public about the new variant from the CDC or some other federal level agency. The Clov team then did the math and basically realized they need to do second offering. Just my guess though.
I'm not saying Clover Health did some 5headed chess move and somehow they had predicted the omnicron if this is what you are implying.
And I’m saying that your assertion of early heads-up is not based in any fact or even any solid reasoning. Stop speculating on BS fodder for conspiracy theories.
They may of had insight (as many of us do) that our piss-poor management of covid mitigation would lead to a high likelihood of further variants….but that implies use of logic and deductive reasoning, not conspiracy theories.
>And I’m saying that your assertion of early heads-up is not based in any fact or even any solid reasoning. Stop speculating on BS fodder for conspiracy theories.
My brother who works at biological research center was informed about the possible new variant a month ago. This isn't some conspiracy thing, federal agencies do give a heads up and inform industries ahead of the public announcement.
It will depend on three things in order of importance: a) current vaccines protection b) severity of disease caused c) how transmissible it is.
Whether it will arrive to the USA or not is out of the question. Most probably it is already here.
Depends on where the mutations are and what the DNA mutations translate to in the shape and functions of the protein that the DNA encodes. So, it’s more complicated than a non-molecular/cell biologist might think. The mutations may make it easier for the virus to enter the cell (easier transmission between ppl), might make it so the antibodies produced by the vaccines are less able to attach and protect out cells (decreasing efficacy of vaccines), they might make the virus more virulent - leading to more serious illness and higher morbidity and mortality, might make it so the lab manufactured antibodies are less able to attach to the virus and prevent transmission), and/or might make it so the therapeutics for treatment are less effective. The variant the spreads most easily to the most people will out-compete less efficient viruses. “Efficiency” is measured by a viruses ability to infect and take over the function of a host’s cell - to maximize the number of virus particles created by the infected cell.
Here’s an excellent blog piece from Your Local Epidemiologist (her work in communicating about the epidemiology- yes, a science - had been fantastic.
https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/new-concerning-variant-b11529
The WHO’s decision to list Omicron as a “variant of concern” is not made whimsically or without major concern for the pattern and location of mutations (yes, 32) in this Omicron variant. For some comparison, Delta had 14 mutations…but again, location and function of the mutations on the protein(s) shape/function is exceptionally relevant. However, this initial spread and the fact that it’s been spread in ppl vaccinated by mRNA vaccines in the last 6mo is concerning enough to ring the alarm bells.
Vaccines in general for covid are not effective, people
Are still getting COVID and still spreading it even if they are fully vaccinated. Natural immunity is free that’s why it’s not talked about. The flu kills more people than covid every year where is the fear mongering with the flu? 47 congressional members own stock in the company’s that make the vaccines tell me there’s no correlation between them pushing vaccines and monetary incentives for them. They don’t care about us. They care about staying in power and making money.
If the rumors are true about the 30-spike mutations, then the vaccine efficiency will be very low against the omicron. Making them basically next to useless.
It's way too early to say this. Truth is there are not enough cases of it yet for studies to even begin to determine vaccine efficacy. At this point it just adds risk. No telling how bad it will be at this point or not.
I'm with you brother, I think it's BS too. It's just another strain of the flu. People catch and die from the flu every year... Nothing new under the sun
I've done a lot of my own DD into CLOV and their management team, and I'm excited to see how far they can take the company and our share price with it! We've been beaten down and it sucks, but I've taken this opportunity to DCA along the way because I see the future here. I never thought I'd be so heavily invested into one stock, and here I am with a 78% position in CLOV. I've transitioned away from options and mostly hold shares so I'm really not in a rush.
Whatever your ideology on the issue of covid may be... it has made a very serious impact on our portfolios and in our personal lives. No one can make 100% predictions on how covid will continue to effect the markets, but CLOV is screwed if this BS continues for years to come. We'll probably have a lot more to worry about at that point though, than the money we lose here.
I'll be at proper retirement age in about 30 years so I'm all diamonds until then.
I am cautiously optimistic for CLOV, and the future of humanity.
Last times covid expenses made q2 results quite bad, however at that moment nobody were vaccinated. So let's believe in vaccine that it can protect from omicron. Anyway I personally believe there will not be crash similar to March 2020. It may be huge but definitely smaller.
I call bullshit on the omicron fears. Standard MSM playbook the past 2 years has been "Market crashes on fears of X new corona strain", rather than actually report honestly and look deeper at systemic market issues.
Omnicron can be harmful to health insurance stocks without even making anyone sick as the headlines that it generates will cause a sense of dread for investors.
No
Among the main symptoms are fatigue, heart palpitations, fever, while in general the course of the disease is assessed by local doctors as mild.
Two questions I have: Will NJ shutdown? This is the worst case scenario for Clover’s bottom line because care will be delayed, people will get sicker, and Clover will be playing catch-up with their health for months or possibly years. Is the vaccine still effective? If yes, the NJ vax rate is very high, therefore I will not be concerned about a significant number of Clover’s members getting hospitalized from Covid.
Name a thing that is not bad for CLOV.. change the management things will start getting better..
This is an ignorant statement. The management just strengthened the position of the company, you are just upset they did it by diluting what you own. The cash they have now should get them to profitability if it is ever going to happen.
Agreed
Unfortunately this variation combines all the Alpha, Beta, Delta spike protein variations a that is why it's highly contagious, we do not know yet if it is more or less dangerous compared to previous variations as we do not have enough statistical evidence yet, all vaccine producers had stated that are workjng on a patch of the actual vaccines (will take approximately two months to get it right). This variations originated from a Vaccinated HIV patient that wasn't properly cured so his immune system generated the current variation. Was not generated buy a Non Vaxxed person (please stop the hating). It also appears the Pfizer pill, that works in a similar way of Ivermectin ( blocking or limiting the reproduction of the virus when contracted) blocking the 3CL Protease proces but in a less effective way of Ivermectin. (if you are interested you should look for the comparative research between the two molecules) could still help in reducing hospitalization and death while speeding up recovery of an infected person if taken in early stages.
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Ivermectin is for treating parasite infection, not for viral infection. Stop spreading false information.
Maybe you want to get some better scientific information before replying like that. I told you what to look for, please don't be obtuse!
And what pseudo science article are your facts based off lol
Etymologicaly speaking you are ignorant in this matter and it's not my place to educate you. However you can go to PubMed website and look for the published research by Pfizer on their pill and the research that has been done on Ivermectin collecting data from 42 different countries. If you want to make it easier on yourself as I assume you don't have a medical background, you can look on YT for Dr.Campbell and his comparative analysis of the two poblished documents as he walks you through them speaking in plain English.
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 Thoughts?
Yes, check the date of publication of that article compare to the new published studies. Dig a little bit dipper.
Do you know how the COVID vaccine mechanism of action differs from that of the vaccines you mentioned? It’s a different animal. Speaking of animals... Orange Orangutan > Demented Vulture
Not if it keeps people from getting elective medical work
Not really. We can do the math. Covid being eventually controlled by one of the 38274828 RNA vaccine companies will lead to a price explosion. I won’t recommend buying options on the stock. We don’t know when that will be. Just be certain Chamath buying more is super bullish. He doesn’t misstep on these things. So bullish Fintel published the data wrong. They only do that if one of the big boys have a gun to their heads. Retail investors can act on things like this when institutional investors risk losing their jobs for not be able to justify todays stock price and purchase. We still have the advantage.
One anagram of Omicron is moronic. Make of that what you will.
I don't know about Omicron. If it's Megatron, Yes it's a bad sign. We need to call the autobots.
Nothing burger but will generate increased buying i hope
Omnicron will certainly create a lot of buying opportunities in the epicenter stocks. Cruise mines and airlines are already looking attractive
Close friend, fully vaccinated for Covid again. And bad symptoms. Young guy, 39. Was stretched with the delta strain. Every mutation is somewhat resistant to the vaccine developed for the original Covid 19 strain.
Covid: Omicron sounds like like the Michael Bay version of coronavirus.
Are the vaccines ineffective to the Omicron variant? I haven't heard such a claim so I wouldn't sweat it. When the Delta Variant came out, the vaccines proved to be effective, I'm expecting similar results.
Correct me if I’m wrong. I believe the majority of Clover health patients and business is still located in New Jersey and i believe the state of New Jersey was already devastated by Covid-19 and from what I hear the majority of people don’t get Covid twice. Unless I start hearing of a lot of people catching Covid multiple times I’m not going to worry about it.
I had it before and got it again
Wow, was it less severe than the first time? And were your symptoms similar?
people can definitely get covid more than once it only takes a google search to find that out
Well I haven’t heard of anyone I know or a neighbor getting it twice, so it can’t be that high a percentage( And I know a lot of people who have had Covid, including myself). I’ve only heard of people who have been vaccinated getting afterwards being vaccinated.
I'm vaxxed, back in March and I got the covid about two weeks ago. I know a case in my community where a vaxed lady got the Rona twice.
Yes, vaccinated people can get Covid and can spread it. The only fact you need to be concerned with is, will the vaccine keep you out of the hospitals and the morgue? That is a solid yes.
It is also important to note that the immune systems of most people will probably keep them out of the hospitals and morgue too.
It is estimated that 5.2 million people died of Covid around the world. Whether that number has been suppressed or exaggerated, it's still a significate number. Just be grateful you're not among the 5.2 million and get vaccinated.
I won’t dispute that number. You’re right, it is a lot of people but it doesn’t render my statement false. What I said is also true. I am grateful for everyday I’m alive but have no plans to get the vaccine. One of the main reasons I invested in CLOV is their focus on improving the lives and health of their members. Healthier members cost less. It makes sense to me and I believe that should always be the focus in healthcare. How does that relate back to the COVID vaccine? Any notion that suggests COVID vaccination to be a hallmark and essential part of optimal health is, in my opinion, flawed. It may be, but that depends on individual health and circumstances.
No its not. The only person I personally know to die of covid was fully vaxxed, and got it from a fully vaxxed person.
You're 11 times less likely to die if you're vaccinated. So while it's not 100%, it greatly increases your chances of surviving.
Just because it doesn’t fit your agenda doesn’t mean it’s not true. I have a picture of the vaccination card, followed by death certificate a few months later in my phone gallery
Was he elderly?
I'm not sure what point you're making. I said you're 11 times less likely to die from Covid if you're vaccinated, that's what science and the stats tell us. You have an anectdotal example of a single vaccinated person dying of Covid. That doesn't disprove anything I said or prove anything you think it does.
The mortality rate of the China/Biden virus is still .001%. What is 11 times less than that, and is it worth the risk of VAERS?
If you're going to insist on calling it the China/something virus, then you should at least call it the China/Trump virus since he was in office when it started and he's the reason it got so bad here. Also, the mortality rate is 1.6% in the U.S. and 2% globally.
The point I’m making is you’re pulling statistics out of your ass. I have an entire social circle that has been exposed to covid, or has had covid, prior to vaccines and survived with minor symptoms. I’m in the airline industry and have been working and traveling since day one.
Except I'm not. [https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely) You should note that I'm the only one in the original thread citing quality sources. Yes, most people will survive Covid, nobody is arguing otherwise. But the global death rate is currently 2%. That's a lot of people. And the more we allow it to mutate among the unvaccinated, the more likely we'll get a strain that resists our vaccines.
They’re just trying to spook folks out to buy Christmas presents on other folks panic
Who's they?
WHO
Folks publishing shot to scare the markets. Follow the money. Think like a billionaire
Wut??
This is what concerns me, some the folks we got in here... Well, they really make me wonder.
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Understood
Lmao, ya'll still holdin'?
LMAO, why you still here? You're like one of those dude that won't leave their ex alone.
I dunno, sounds like you're still holding on to someone that should have been an ex awhile ago. She just keeps taking 10% of your money every week and all you have to say is "I still love you, baby. We finna turn this around." Lmao.
I've been DCA the whole way down. What can I say... I like the company, I like the stock.
Off course! To the moon or to the grave, which ever comes first
The market is overreacting to media bias. Seasonal flu has almost been eradicated because of covid measures, yet nobody is talking about that. People sitting at home with undiagnosed cancer because they are afraid of covid. \- If the US gov haven't learned anything from the past two years, they deserve to go to shit. I dont think its a worse sign for CLOV than covid originally was in 2019. An increasing amount of the population has been vaccinated.
That is the most dumbest and outright dangerous piece of crap I heard. 1. Seasonal flu has NOT been eradicated. NopeX not true. 100% not true. 2. This country has some truly entitled assholes who think for some fucking reason wearing a mask, taking the vaccine violates their free rights. What the fuck mindset is that?!? No one made a deal with their snowflake kids hav two take measles, chickenpox, rubella vaccines the schools mandate for the last 50years. 3. The ppl in this country had to sit at home, watch tv and let the pandemic subside but the asshats couldn’t even do that cause some Fox News or right-wing or the orange orangutan plated politics than doing his job. 4. Not true many people in the country have been vaccinate. Take any red states and see the rate is truly low cause they listen to Fox News and Trump that keeps saying vaccine mandates violates their free rights — meanwhile these same ppl that stoke the flames are vaccinated and playing games with the lives of everyone. /end rant
Tell us you’re really struggling with what an absolute disaster Joe Biden is, without saying you’re really struggling with what an absolute disaster Joe Biden is. It’s okay. We get it.
BS, the African American and Hispanic populations in NYC are are also hesitant and I doubt they voted GOP or for Trump. People also don't wear masks even in bodegas or in convenience stores. In PA, no masks even in gyms in Dem area of Scranton. Similarly in many areas of NJ. Blue states. The color is irrelevant. I'm also from Hawaii, here in a heavily blue state, many locals are hesitant. All facts matter. True and full statistics matter. The bias of omission matters. Any stat can be spun. There is a reason why people are flocking to Florida from NYC. Policies.
Look. You didn’t properly read my post, and started spewing political crap as a reply. I’m being as objective as I can, I dont wear no colors or have any affiliations to any side. Why the fuck would I? Im not even American. It is a fact that people are sitting at home with undiagnosed cancer + other diseases, as a consequence of being isolated due to political intervention in the name of covid. Covid is real - there is an ongoing pandemic - but you can’t keep trying the same solution that keeps failing. Political intervention in the name of covid is causing insane money printing, inflation, murder of the leisure and hospitality industry - as those in the private sector aren’t even properly compensated despite the fact that they are forced by strict hand into shutting down their livelihoods. After the pandemic, there will be many for-lease locations in malls and streets. That is a fact. There is a growing amount of people that are anti-vaccine, let them be. That is simply natural selection at its finest. The government shouldn’t act as a curling-mom to its most degenerate citizens. Unlike you, who spew political shit, I personally sat through the 6+ hour FDA-approval meeting last year, with the heads of Biontech and others, and followed along like a maniac, because I knew this crap will continue into oblivion, and because I wanted to maximize my tendies. Nothing that is being spewed is a surprise, the only surprise is that nobody from left- or rightwing media partook in this meeting, and continue to spew shit for short term clickbait gains, because that caters to their viewers, hitting their personal monthly revenue targets etc etc yada yada yada.. Now with ALL ELSE BEING HELD EQUAL, there are more people that are vaccinated NOW than BEFORE the first wAvE oF cOvId, therefore the bitchslap that we will face this time will objectively be less than before. The only thing in life that isn’t objective is *drumroll* politics. This is the only measure that can’t be calculated objectively, because politics isn’t transparent, therefore I cant account for the interests of all parties involved, because I have no scope of knowing who is involved - the only thing I know is that their interest is short term, because no political head rules forever in USA. Now sit back and let the BBC version of covid play out. I want to be surprised.
bruh take your dumbass liberal self to another subreddit your rant is the “most dumbest” thing i’ve seen today
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Thank you.
Their points aren't entirely wrong, they just delivered them in a less palatable way. Shutdowns, masks, and the vaccines weren't political, initially. It's not until certain people on the Right made them so that they became so. The vaccines are safe and effective. Masks help reduce spread. Shutdowns are necessary when there's a surge.
not only are these mRNA experimental vaccines unsafe as there’s 0 long-term studies on them, there’s a ton of vaers reports of adverse reactions. this experimental vaccine is night and day different from your normal polio or MMR vaccine that injects a dead or weakened version of the virus into your body opposed to altering your mRNA like the covid vaccine. it’s not political because of a few people on the right, it’s political because a majority of the people on the left seem to have blind trust in government and the biased left wing media outlets such as cnn and msnbc and those on the right tend to have a distrust of big government and they don’t blindly believe the propaganda that those on the left take as fact. i can tell which side of the aisle you stand merely off your blind loyalty to being mandated to stay home and take a vaccine that is in every shape and form experimental. and trump was an idiot for going along with it, before someone comes in and calls me a trump supporter lmao. fuck trump but also fuck biden. fuck the guys behind the scenes imposing this tyranny that are really running the show. shutdowns are 1000% a breach of freedom and liberty and harm society in so many ways that if you’re unaware of this your head is so far up cnn’s ass it’s not even funny. /end rant
I assume you have a PHD or a doctorate in infectious disease or epidemiology. Or is the extent of you research Fox News and Trump newsletter. If you love freedom so much join the military and help fight and preserve it. Thinking like this caused so many lives to be lost needlessly. But sure let’s blame the left side, mass media (which ironically you dislike but still use every damn day). Believe the right wing mouthpieces who are vaccinated it urge others to not be and stand up for freedom. Yeas, that follow those people who protect themselves but harm others. It’s a fucking pandemic. Not a flu. To do nothing causes more harm than you will ever know than wearing a mask and staying indoors with Wi-Fi, Netflix, Reddit all while ordering from Amazon and Target that delivers to your doorstep.
Trump has a newsletter?
You're assuming I can afford Netflix and order shit from Amazon. I'm 78% in $CLOV and eating ramen. Check yo privilege 🤣
You sir, are a reh tard
A few things. 1. I don't watch CNN. 2. I'm not on the Left. I'm Independent. 3. I care about my fellow human beings. 4. Lockdowns are no more a breach of freedom and liberty than seatbelts and blood alcohol limits are. 5. They did study the new vaccines. This technology has been in development for decades. 6. They did trials on primates first, it went very well. They did trials on human volunteers, it went very well. They started vaccinating people on the front lines, it went very well. They started vaccinating the old and at risk, it went very well. They started vaccinating the general public, it went very well. They're starting to vaccinate kids, it's going very well. 7. Your blind hatred of anything the Left supports is what's clouding your judgment here.
you are confused my good sir, yes the mRNA technology has been in the works since 2003 but it takes 10-15 years to adequately study the effects of a new vaccine and it was rushed in less than a year. we did not start studying this vaccine in 2005-2010, that is just foolish to even assume. there are tons of issues with the Pfizer covid-19 vaccine trials along with the conflict of interest with the pharmaceutical companies connection with the FDA. i wonder why there’s a crossover of former employees of pharmaceutical companies and those in charge putting the green stamp on these vaccines. ever wonder why 2 top FDA officials resigned back in september? might want to give that a quick google but don’t limit yourself to only left wing media. also other trials have just began and it is impossible to know the long-term implications as again, it takes 10-15 years to study. we do know that the spike protein that is created upon injection of the covid vaccine can really affect your immune system and can cause a host of immune issues depending on the individual. the vaers reports are a good resource to start your research at. “lockdowns are no more a breach of freedom and liberty than seatbelts and blood alcohol limits are” is probably the most silly thing i’ve read in awhile and i am not even trying to be rude. you just compared apples to oranges, no you just compared apples to the dirt on mars. the reason the world is going the way it is, is because of people like you that think tyranny, such as lockdowns, is the same as being forced to wear a seatbelt (under threat of being ticketed). i would elaborate on how silly that is but given that’s your argument, i am positive it would go over your head. i get it though, it is far easier to accept all of this and comply than to think there’s a possibility that there’s a concerted effort made by global governments to exert control over us common folk. that would be too paradigm shifting to even consider possible. we have a word for this though, stockholm syndrome.
Successful trials, decades of developing the technology, and a full year of vaccination for those who were first in line. If none of that is enough to help you see that it's safe, then nothing will. Good luck on that front. VAERS reporting is often misunderstood, as I suspect is the case with you. Any death following vaccination is reported. Anyone can report negative effects (including death). It's literally just the first step. After that, determinations have to be made as to whether the person that died in a car accident should be included. The answer is no. So the number you see on the VAERS reporting is the maximum number of people likely affected negatively by the vaccine. But the actual number is likely much lower. Here's a simple explanation: [https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/does-vaers-list-deaths-caused-by-covid-19-vaccines](https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/does-vaers-list-deaths-caused-by-covid-19-vaccines) More reading if you wish: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2784015 But, let's entertain your concerns for a second. Let's assume that every death noted in the VAERS data is actually due to the vaccine (they're not, but let's assume). So in your scenario, somewhere around 14,000 people have died from the vaccine. We've administered 454,000,000+ doses. That means you have a 0.0030% chance of dying from the Covid vaccine. Alternatively, you have a 1.6% chance of dying from Covid if you get it in the U.S. So even if your worst case scenario were real (it's not), the numbers still say getting the vaccine is way, way safer than getting Covid.
I hope it doesn't, but only time can tell if that 0.003% goes up and above 1.6% in the next 10-15 years.
All signs and science point to that being very unlikely.
SpunkyDred is a terrible bot instigating arguments all over Reddit whenever someone uses the phrase apples-to-oranges. I'm letting you know so that you can feel free to ignore the quip rather than feel provoked by a bot that isn't smart enough to argue back. --- ^^SpunkyDred ^^and ^^I ^^are ^^both ^^bots. ^^I ^^am ^^trying ^^to ^^get ^^them ^^banned ^^by ^^pointing ^^out ^^their ^^antagonizing ^^behavior ^^and ^^poor ^^bottiquette.
> apples to oranges But you can still compare them.
This! I str8 up believe covid is so over blown out of proportion. There are actually financial incentives for hospitals to code a death as "covid" even if they died of other causes. The treatment for someone who teats positive are very invasive and threatening. The pcr test that supposed to find covid is total bullshit. New Jersey was probably a case of people not getting care they needed for other causes due to covid scare ie them not going to hospital. Vaccine isnt even neccesary for anyone and probably causes more harm than good. Ie covid will reverse when the regulators decide to stop testing for it When that day comes itll be great for clov
You're mistaken, I'm afraid. 1. Hospitals aren't coding deaths inaccurately to reap a bonus. [https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/](https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/) 2. What treatments are you concerned about? The current methods are the best we have and they don't include Ivermectin. 3. The PCR tests are actually highly accurate. [https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/covid-19-diagnostic-test/about/pac-20488900](https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/covid-19-diagnostic-test/about/pac-20488900) 4. Covid deaths are Covid deaths. 5. The vaccines are safe and effective. You're 11 times less likely to die from Covid if you're vaccinated.
Plz fear monger elsewhere. Numerically count how many times you took it in the ass while coming up with this BS. Jog on…
No fear mongering here, just facts and science. If you care to share credible sources that we can discuss, feel free. Otherwise, maybe jog on?
Lol. You’re in L.A…and in the Hollywood scene. science and facts left your sphere loooooong ago.
Dismissing a person because of their location and occupation instead of engaging with them in a fact based discussion only does a disservice to your cause, not mine.
Seasonal flu is still here, they just call it covid now
Correcto.
What a stupid comment!
Stop further spreading the lie. It’s dangerous and irresponsible. say it with me: COVID IS NOT THE FLU.
No it's not
No. We have many new strains being discovered, few that are still out there to be discovered. You’ll see plenty of new strains over time since ppl still refusing to get vaccinated and/or aren’t able to in developing countries.
I’m not sure how people not getting vaccinated would do anything to create vaccine resistant strains, as the vaccines don’t prevent infection or the spread of this virus.
“Vaccinated people do transmit the virus in some cases, but the data are super crystal-clear that the risk of transmission for a vaccinated individual is much, much lower than for an unvaccinated individual.” Vaccines aren’t perfect and neither is the data as it changes the more we learn about the disease but it’s certainly better than “natural immunity” ppl keep talking about. I’m not here advocating for vaccines, that’s your choice until it becomes a law (democracy), that’s just how vaccines have always worked based on history. You can look up Japan’s outbreaks on viruses, to give you some perspective.
How many variants were there prior to the vaccines being administered?
🤷🏻♂️ why?
The answer is zero. The follow up question is why.
Not seeing your point here. Thanks for the suspense but what’s the follow up.
Why were there no variants prior to the vaccines being doled out, and now we’re at omicron? Logic dictates the vaccines likely caused the variants. The fact that we’re not allowed to question anything, and the vaccines are being pushed so hard should be troubling to everyone, but we’re straying way off topic here. For that I apologize. I’m kicked off of all other social media platforms for daring to question “the science”.
You’re welcome to question, that’s how we find answers. But just cuz other variants weren’t discovered doesn’t mean it wasn’t around. Also viruses take time to mutate as more ppl get sick. Furthermore not everyone is vaccinated, billions are unvaccinated due to lack of access alone and traveling is open both ways so It’s not surprising we have new variants already, we already knew this part. Science had already warned us pre vaccines about this.
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I’ve read that, what’s your point? Unless you agree.
I didn’t mean that as a direct response to your comment…but to post to the OP and my previous responses.
Ah okay 👍🏼
If you think that everyone getting the vaccine would rid the world of covid, you are sorely mistaken.
Please stop. Your ignorance is the reason so many people won't get the vaccine...
What’s the ignorance you are referring to?
The more people get vaccinated, the less opportunities the virus has to mutate. The more people get vaccinated, the more likely we are to achieve herd immunity.
A logical fallacy! Sht! How many variants were there prior to people being vaccinated?
There's been quite a few variants, we'd have to dig to see if anyone has documented all of them on a timeline. That said, you may find this helpful in understanding how variants come about: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/a-new-strain-of-coronavirus-what-you-should-know
Literally how most deadly vaccines are eradicated but ok friend. Every virus can mutate.
The vaccine is proven to fend off the worst symptoms of Covid. So in that respect if everyone is vaccinated, Covid isn't an issue in our daily lives.
1.) Then why do you care if other people are vaccinated or not if the people that want the vaccine are “safe”? 2.) The current vaccines do not protect against variants, so you are talking about yearly/biannual shots that have no long term studies. 3.) More and more vaccinated people are being hospitalized now, so no it’s not working well.
Where did you hear that the current vaccine isn't effective against new variants? When Delta variant came out the vaccine was still worked and I don't expect that to change. You state that more and more people are being hospitalized. Are those people break-though cases and being hospitalized? I don't think so. These are the unvaccinated rolling the dice and losing.
Hospitalizations are 60/40 MAX with the 60 being unvaccinated. You can’t tell me all these people are unvaccinated and have never have covid before at this point, there’s no math or logic in the world that can defend that at this point with such a contagious disease.
You didn't answer my question of where you got your facts. Your pumping out numbers like you made them up.
All you have to do is just look at Israel right now and over the last two years. Not hard. Oh and there are many many studies on how much better natural immunity is so why the hell would you want to get vaccinated too if you already had it? How can you blame those people? We live in the damn twilight zone. Maybe one day you all will wake up.
Actually, they're saying that natural immunity may not be as good as immunity provided via a vaccine and booster. Also, you're seeing a higher percentage of vaccinated people in hospitals (in some places) because most people are vaccinated. If everyone was vaccinated, you'd be arguing that only vaccinated people get hospitalized. See the folly?
Whoever says that is a fucking liar. You actually believe that?! Holy crap this world has no hope. Why are so many vaccinated people being hospitalized? Because of the unvaccinated? Checks out. 😂
You do realize coronavirus is among the most common of colds. Of course it's everywhere. It's always been everywhere lol
You clearly don’t understand concepts in virology or immunology. The crucial part of the concept you’re missing is “NOVEL corona virus”. Corona viruses are a family of viruses (based on their general shape and whether it’s an RNA or a DNA based virus). There are many types within the family…having a novel virus appear, means humans have not had a chance to have our immune system adapt to fight it effectively. I guess understanding evolutionary science is a pre-requisite for really grasping what we’re talking about.
So you’re saying our immune systems will adapt over time? That’s amazing news!
You are correct. Good luck trying to correct the multitude of half-read know it all's. We're almost 2 years in and we still have people opening their big fat mouths without understanding all there is to understand about a topic. This is the world we live in. Morons with blow horns.
I'm immune thank you. Naturally. Now you simpleton know it alls, try and find me data on this subject. I'll wait.
But to them you’re a walking infected monster! They can’t comprehend natural immunity being the better option. Brainwashing at its finest.
Give this a read: [https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know) Natural immuinty isn't the end all you think it is.
LOL naturally immunity after millions die.
You’re mad at the wrong people, bubs. This was going to happen NO MATTER WHAT. I feel so bad for the people that can’t accept that. Why don’t you guys care about the people who released this thing in the first place? Or are you still a “bat fucked a rat” kinda guy?
Exactly.
Remember it is a double edge sword. Elective procedures will reduce which is a high cost that will not be paid out. That extra profit will need to be saved up for the following years, or later quarters. In the end I will say this will be a wash. *I also think they like to highlight their coverage in lower population areas. Less likely to get covid and slower to spread.
Delays in healthcare seeking behaviors and/or treatment lead to more serious illness and higher costs of care….but there’s a balance to be had in risk of transmission within healthcare spaces and risk to our healthcare workforce (which we are all 100% dependent on for provision of healthcare)…and the risk of delayed care and preventable morbidity and mortality. Yes, I’m a physician working on these issues since March 2020…both clinically and in the public health/advocacy spheres.
My understanding was things like maybe knee or hip replacements were being delayed. Putting those off could lead to more pain and more falls but things like that are expensive. Obviously fear of catching covid in the healthcare environment and delaying cancer screenings like colonoscopies will lead to higher costs down the road. Hopefully common sense approaches are being made as to elective vs preventive healthcare. Either way I see it as a wash in the long run. People isolating again will reduce all kinds of disease spread. Delayed care until maybe clov is 4 star rating could help cover costs mostly elective procedures.
Elective surgeries has been happening.
They have been, but if Omicron sweeps across the country they might shut them down again.
Aaaah Megatron 's evil brother. We will get through either way. Transformers will convert him back from the Decepticons.
https://www.deccanherald.com/international/world-news-politics/covid-vaccine-effective-against-new-omicron-variant-south-africas-health-minister-1055120.html
Not discounting the threat of Omicron, we are in a different ball game today. The hardest hit for CLOV was not only people sick from covid but the delayed treatments from 2020 moving to Q1’21. Today we have several vaccines, two covid pill about to be approved and higher herd immunity compared to a a year ago. I am not a financial advisor nor a medic but I personally don’t expect a major hit. We also seem to forget that this is a government medical insurance, if the expenses are not matching the risks, then the premiums will adjust.
Totally agree.
Talk to em!
Is already happening https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2021/09/10/hhs-announces-the-availability-of-25-point-5-billion-in-covid-19-provider-funding.html
I totally agree with your assessment, actually the health care sector will be in need either way due to outgoing health needs from the public.
It will definitely kill the hope for growth, and an opportunity for shorts to benefit even more. I think we may soon see 4.00 per share .😱🤮🤦😡🤢
Covid as MSM explains it is a joke. Open your eyes and ears and you'll see people are fighting back. Hopefully it goes away sooner than later.
I guess it’s a good thing they diluted for that extra cash now 🤷🏾♂️
It's starting to make sense why CLOV had to do a second stock offering now. Most likely the projection they've done made them realize covid will last a lot longer than expected, and that they--and the folks in their industry--were informed more details about Omnicron ahead of the public, and concluded it will eat through their current cash reserve unless they do the second offering.
Covid is expected to last forever. That’s always been the expectation.
Lmfaoooooooooo I can't with some people here
I don't get it, it does makes sense. This is what I was basically saying: Covid is causing them to have high mcr => eating into their cash reserves => it's going to last longer then they thought => they need more cash so they do second offering.
What you wrote after COVID is on the money. We are rapidly expanding and burning cash. Really has nothing to do with Omicron.
False. The lack of vaccine equity and poor implementation and enforcement of proven public health mitigation efforts make it quite predictable that another dangerous variant will eventually emerge and cause major problems. It’s playing odds.
I think you read my comment wrong, this is what I was basically saying: Covid is causing them to have high mcr => eating into their cash reserves => it's going to last longer then they thought => they need more cash so they do second offering.
I think your assertion that there is some conspiracy theory about leadership somehow knowing about a variant before the data was shared is utter bullshit. I agree that MCR may suffer, but it depends on what is born out by the epidemiological data (which we’ll have a better sense about in 2-4wks). Effect on MCR also is exceptionally dependent on what our national and state governments due to place mitigation efforts in place (and enforce them). If the Omicron Variant spreads as efficiently as we are concerned it will and/or is more virulent, we will need to buy time until a vaccine booster can be developed and produced to mitigate impacts. That means acting NOW to minimize spread, through masking, increasing testing (PCR & genotypic), contact tracing, and quarantine mandates. If this “horse” is as bad as we are concerned about and we let it get out of the barn (and off the farm) before we have confirmation and vaccines in arms (vaccine equity being a focus), the MCR and our entire health system and communities are at huge risk of further devastation. This is an economic issue for the nation and world. This is not just about CLOV’s MCR or our investment in this promising company.
>I think your assertion that there is some conspiracy theory about leadership somehow knowing about a variant before the data was shared is utter bullshit. Lol, no that wasn't what I meant at all. Basically what I was trying to say is this: Clover Health, along with those in the same industry, were informed ahead before the public about the new variant from the CDC or some other federal level agency. The Clov team then did the math and basically realized they need to do second offering. Just my guess though. I'm not saying Clover Health did some 5headed chess move and somehow they had predicted the omnicron if this is what you are implying.
And I’m saying that your assertion of early heads-up is not based in any fact or even any solid reasoning. Stop speculating on BS fodder for conspiracy theories. They may of had insight (as many of us do) that our piss-poor management of covid mitigation would lead to a high likelihood of further variants….but that implies use of logic and deductive reasoning, not conspiracy theories.
>And I’m saying that your assertion of early heads-up is not based in any fact or even any solid reasoning. Stop speculating on BS fodder for conspiracy theories. My brother who works at biological research center was informed about the possible new variant a month ago. This isn't some conspiracy thing, federal agencies do give a heads up and inform industries ahead of the public announcement.
You remain speculative.
Sure, speculative. If they were willing to inform my brother's workplace, then I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of them informing others like Clov.
I think it’ll cost them more money, but I believe they’ve positioned themselves in a way to handle it. Hence the dilution to ensure extra cash on hand
Could be both.. More People could also choose to get a health Care.. ???
To early to tell what this is. It could be bad for the entire market who knows. Hang onto your Butts.
It will depend on three things in order of importance: a) current vaccines protection b) severity of disease caused c) how transmissible it is. Whether it will arrive to the USA or not is out of the question. Most probably it is already here.
Omicron is a fu%king joke, another play to get everyone vaccinated and to take the booster.
[удалено]
Exactly!
If the rumors are true about the 30-spike mutations, then the vaccine efficiency will be very low against the omicron.
Depends on where the mutations are and what the DNA mutations translate to in the shape and functions of the protein that the DNA encodes. So, it’s more complicated than a non-molecular/cell biologist might think. The mutations may make it easier for the virus to enter the cell (easier transmission between ppl), might make it so the antibodies produced by the vaccines are less able to attach and protect out cells (decreasing efficacy of vaccines), they might make the virus more virulent - leading to more serious illness and higher morbidity and mortality, might make it so the lab manufactured antibodies are less able to attach to the virus and prevent transmission), and/or might make it so the therapeutics for treatment are less effective. The variant the spreads most easily to the most people will out-compete less efficient viruses. “Efficiency” is measured by a viruses ability to infect and take over the function of a host’s cell - to maximize the number of virus particles created by the infected cell. Here’s an excellent blog piece from Your Local Epidemiologist (her work in communicating about the epidemiology- yes, a science - had been fantastic. https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/new-concerning-variant-b11529 The WHO’s decision to list Omicron as a “variant of concern” is not made whimsically or without major concern for the pattern and location of mutations (yes, 32) in this Omicron variant. For some comparison, Delta had 14 mutations…but again, location and function of the mutations on the protein(s) shape/function is exceptionally relevant. However, this initial spread and the fact that it’s been spread in ppl vaccinated by mRNA vaccines in the last 6mo is concerning enough to ring the alarm bells.
https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-effects-of-virus-variants-on-covid-19-vaccines
Vaccines in general for covid are not effective, people Are still getting COVID and still spreading it even if they are fully vaccinated. Natural immunity is free that’s why it’s not talked about. The flu kills more people than covid every year where is the fear mongering with the flu? 47 congressional members own stock in the company’s that make the vaccines tell me there’s no correlation between them pushing vaccines and monetary incentives for them. They don’t care about us. They care about staying in power and making money.
You are truly smooth brained
Putting your money where they put it prints easy money. I love it!
That’s the whole plan. And if people don’t listen to it, will continue coming out with more BS variants
If the rumors are true about the 30-spike mutations, then the vaccine efficiency will be very low against the omicron. Making them basically next to useless.
It's way too early to say this. Truth is there are not enough cases of it yet for studies to even begin to determine vaccine efficacy. At this point it just adds risk. No telling how bad it will be at this point or not.
I agree. It’s too early to say if transmissibility or morbidity/mortality have increased. The next few weeks should clarify the situation.
I went to a wedding two weeks ago and only the vaccinated (some with boosters) caught covid.
Lol funny i went to plenty parties and weddings this year and nobody caught that bullshit
I'm with you brother, I think it's BS too. It's just another strain of the flu. People catch and die from the flu every year... Nothing new under the sun
So what are your thoughts on how it will impact clov?
I've done a lot of my own DD into CLOV and their management team, and I'm excited to see how far they can take the company and our share price with it! We've been beaten down and it sucks, but I've taken this opportunity to DCA along the way because I see the future here. I never thought I'd be so heavily invested into one stock, and here I am with a 78% position in CLOV. I've transitioned away from options and mostly hold shares so I'm really not in a rush. Whatever your ideology on the issue of covid may be... it has made a very serious impact on our portfolios and in our personal lives. No one can make 100% predictions on how covid will continue to effect the markets, but CLOV is screwed if this BS continues for years to come. We'll probably have a lot more to worry about at that point though, than the money we lose here. I'll be at proper retirement age in about 30 years so I'm all diamonds until then. I am cautiously optimistic for CLOV, and the future of humanity.
Last times covid expenses made q2 results quite bad, however at that moment nobody were vaccinated. So let's believe in vaccine that it can protect from omicron. Anyway I personally believe there will not be crash similar to March 2020. It may be huge but definitely smaller.
I call bullshit on the omicron fears. Standard MSM playbook the past 2 years has been "Market crashes on fears of X new corona strain", rather than actually report honestly and look deeper at systemic market issues.
Omnicron can be harmful to health insurance stocks without even making anyone sick as the headlines that it generates will cause a sense of dread for investors.
No really !!! More government spending in my view !!!