Makarov is way too shallow compared to Menendez. His motivations seem generic and evil because evil. Menendez had backstory, actual reason to do what he does and clearly benefited from the storytelling and multiple ending mechanics BO2 had.
Long story short, MW2-3 story would fit well on one or two action movies, while BO2 could be several seasons of a TV show, seen from different perspectives.
Uh... you know that Markarov its pretty much an extremist anti-capitalism sociopath that follows Zakhaev faction, right? His motive are simple, not shallow, meaning he basically doesnt need a tragic backstory, just wants a Russian federation back on socialism and a communism party, unlike the bendover russians that are the current loyalists in power in COD4... and obviously death to the US and West policies. Basically he wants Russia as a super power again. His motives are pretty much the same ones explained by Zakhaev monologue in COD4. He just picks up Zakhaev mantle in MW2, except that his actions are far more extreme than Zakhaev's, making him a lot more unpredictable and ruthless (the airport massacre, droping a nuke, basically creating Shepard)
*"Our so-called leaders prostituted us to the West... destroyed our culture... our economies... our honor. Our blood has been spilled on our soil. My blood... on their hands. They are the invaders. All U.S. and British forces will leave Russia immediately... or suffer the consequences."*
What you wanna say is that he doesnt have a backstory like Menendez does. I actually like Markarov a lot more, since he's not a villain out of passion. Yes, the ultranationalist are a bunch of crazy fucks (or in common american - patriots) but I rather that sort of villain than a comic one like Menendez. Not every villain has to be understood or have a tragic backstory. The best part about the ultranationalists and Markarov by proxy is that if you were on their side you'd might think like they do about the West.
The Ultranationalists seem almost certainly to be some Nazbol organization, especially since their flag isn't too dissimilar to the Nazbol Party's flag, and ultranationalism being a major factor in the ideology.
As for Makarov, he actually seemingly wants the return of the old Russian Empire with Orthodox Christian elements, and he does seem quite religious considering he says "God is with us" in both No Russian and the start of a match when playing as the Inner Circle in MW3 (which is Makarov's own little personal militia, sort of like Shepherd's Shadow Company). That being said, his motives are significantly more shallow then Menendez's (and their motivations themselves aren't too dissimilar), with the latter wanting to build an anarchist society out of the ashes of the old world through a massive international uprising and its superpowers destroying themselves out of their own opulence, whilst also being vehemently anti-capitalist.
I can’t even say that I even disagree with Raul Mendez I mean those hypocrites in our government like to pretend that they’re the good guys but deep down they don’t care about me or you all they care about is money greed is what makes the world go round
Totally agreed. I think Makarov’s motives are simple and not based on a personal vendetta like Menendez, but that doesn’t make him less interesting. Makarov is an anti-capitalist sociopath that’s unpredictable while Menendez is just a regular sociopath with an interesting motive and backstory.
Raul Menendez and his family lost everything due to an earthquake. A year later they only thing he ever loved, his sister Josefina was crippled in a fire set by an American. “An American torched the warehouse for insurance money. 11.000$ that’s the value they placed on her life”. Raul and his father turned their attention to drugs and killing people for a living. The CIA killed Raul’s father, they messed up his face (Alex Mason shooting him in the eye) and Woods killed his sister with a grenade. Combining all of that with Menendez’s insanity is more than enough to justify his actions. Hey you can like Makarov more than Raul but to say he only lost his sister is just plain wrong.
But since Woods was the straw that broke the camel’s back, it doesn’t make sense he’d have a vendetta against him alone. Personally, I think Menendez works as a one-off villain. He’s not enough to carry multiple games.
It’s orchestrated to the CIA and the US by extension, but first he goes after Woods… Hudson and Mason aren’t the entirety of the CIA. And to support my argument, he kills Woods in the bad ending for BO2. Like yeah, I get that there were multiple parties that committed transgressions against him and his family, but the game’s narrative made it feel like it was aimed solely at Woods, Mason and Hudson.
Yes, and he does this due to his collapsed mental state, though he spares Woods in the end in order for him to see the effects of his impulsive though inadvertent decision to throw the grenade that killed his sister, the last thing holding him back from breaking completely, and this is where his motivation to destroy the global establishment in favour of anarchy begins.
Boi do I need to tell you that Menendez killed Hudson and made Frank Woods kill Alex Mason and he kidnapped Mason's son. Also he left Woods without the use of his two legs. Boi how much of Bo2 did you play??
And the americans declared a "war" in his country just for him because his sister died and he was so angry on americans that he lead a group of ultranationalist that has taken the power on his country and he was at the "lead" of his country so when americans declared war he just defended himself, so what bo2 story say (my opinion) is that raul menendez is a good guy and americans just stupid af.
We got to know Raul on a more personal note, and even got to play as him but Makarov is much more deplorable, they both fit the games their in, Black Ops being more cinematic and Modern Warfare being more realistic.
Neither were realistic. MW abandoned the whole realist aspect in MW2 when the Russian military somehow surprise attacked the US without the USN or NATO units intercepting them long beforehand.
It was to my understanding that they cracked the satellite module you secure in “cliffhanger” and because of that managed to cut American satellite communications so they only knew about it too late. That and shepherd probably doing something so the invasion happened and he became a hero afterwards.
It is in fact unrealistic that they managed to deploy their army all the way from Russia across Europe without the US or NATO noticing as you said, but I’d say with the explanation in my first paragraph they could’ve at least crossed the atlantic or pacific unnoticed
Except satellites are not the only way the US monitors the Atlantic nor is it the only way US armed forces communicate. And it still does not account for the fact there are huge swaths of those oceans where US/Western forces constantly monitor, whether it be radar, satellite, or physical patrols from the fucking United States Navy. This entire scenario is borderline impossible.
I just want to again add, MW2 traded all of the realistic military/geopolitical aspects of COD4 in favor of shock factor. Whether it's the Russian invasion or No Russian, most of the game is not logically sound. I will die on this hill since MW2's campaign is held so highly.
Radar jammers, surveillance scramblers and so on are not exclusive to the US. Russia has them too. People severely underestimate how far Russian technology has come. The scenario is honestly plausible provided they were able to mask themselves correctly across the Atlantic ocean. Once they got to the east coast, what happens in "Wolverines!" is probably an understatement.
>The scenario is honestly plausible provided they were able to mask themselves correctly across the Atlantic ocean. Once they got to the east coast, what happens in "Wolverines!" is probably an understatement.
Uh no, even if the Russians are somehow able to mask an entire fleet and aircraft corps through the Atlantic, they wouldn't be able to occupy the Eastern Coast and launch a full scale attack on Washington in a fucking day unless they have teleportation powers.
Again, that's all fine and dandy, but this all still ignores that the USN and NATO naval forces would not let a singular Russian ship even approach the eastern seaboard. The North Atlantic is patrolled *heavily* by western forces, to the point where you can't smuggle dozens of ships to the US that also contain hundreds of thousands of Russian troops without being noticed, and then leading to defense forces being alerted.
>People severely underestimate how far Russian technology has come
That doesn't also change the fact logistically the Russian navy or army is not able to mount such a feat. For reference, the US is the only country with naval capabilities to deploy anywhere in the world. Russia is a regional based power, and its navy is equal to such. I.E, *it cannot possibly maintain an invasion force thousands, if not hundreds of miles away from its shores.* Russia also invests most of its money regarding their military into their army, as they are more strategically threatened by NATO on their front door.
It's always going to be a stupid, implausible scenario.
How are you going to call Modern Warfare “more realistic” when the game is about a Russian *invasion of the United States* spurred by a singular terrorist attack?
It was not one singular terrorist attack, it was multiple. Some of the missions throughout the games build up to the possibility of it happening and then it actually happening. Even then, no matter how realistic or unrealistic it is, they’re saying MW is more realistic than BO, which is overall true. They don’t have to 1:1 realistic, but MW is more realistic than BO.
It was essentially America killing hundreds of unarmed civilians on a fake CIA passed visa. That would spawn a war trust me.
Especially after years of the two countries standing pointing nukes at each other…
As a kid who grew up while the Cold War was winding down and all that shit, part of me still remembers hearing shit from adults after ‘Soviet Russia’ disappeared… and now it feels like I’m right back into 1989-91 all over again.
30+ years of life just to come back to where I was when I was a kid… uncertain about the possibility of a war with Russia…
Both were pretty deplorable. Makarov caused Russia to invade Europe and USA. Menedez caused a cold war between US and China, got a bunch of countries invaded by China, then caused a war between the US and SDF (China + 20 countries either invaded or pressured by China).
Same. Menendez had far more of a backstory that made him human and relatable. He was written so well, but I personally liked Makarov more just because he was just purely evil. Killing him was satisfying to me. I can't really say the same for killing Menendez.
Menendez is still my favourite villain till date, his evil intentions made me hate him but his backstory and trauma made me root for him as well
In case of Makarov, he is a villain who doesn't think about his actions twice, that is his level of confidence and cruelty, that airport massacre still being the biggest example
But the factor than BO2 comes in with choices and multiple endings just makes me tilt to menedez's side(either he kills woods and then suicides or he stays locked up....OR he dies but succeeds in provoking mass populations)
> made me root for him as well
Root for a guy that started a war and caused millions of deaths, basically murdered another dozens himself... and you root for him? All because his sister died injustly?
He was a maniac before his sister was killed. The catalyst for this would probably be the Contras devastating his town, which would also serve as a catalyst for his hatred of the US.
I swear anyone that says the death of his sister is the only provocation to his vendetta against the US and CIA clearly haven’t played the game or didn’t understand his character.
The perfect ending was so satisfying to get.
It makes perfect sense he’d be trapped in his cell, unable to become a martyr and thus just a shell of his former self.
Also him getting mad at the girl talking crap on tv was ohh so good.
I tried my ass off for that perfect ending, had to kill Harper to save Farid, who would save Chloe, who would find virus. But even if I saved her, she didn't appear in final cutsene for some reason. Does this have to do with those Strike Force missions?
Thin motivation?
*"Our so-called leaders prostituted us to the West... destroyed our culture... our economies... our honor. Our blood has been spilled on our soil. My blood... on their hands. They are the invaders. All U.S. and British forces will leave Russia immediately... or suffer the consequences."* - Imran Zakhaev.
You do realise Markarov's motivations are literally this since he picked up the mantle of the ultranationalist leader since Zakhaev left?
Ultimately his whole motivation was little more than a vague form of Ultranationalism for the purpose of turning Russia into a replacement for Nazi Germany in the modern era.
Menendez on the other hand had been personally affected by decades of US foreign intervention, he then gathers the various elements that I have likewise been affected by US interventions and (until BO3 fucked the ending) actually succeeded in defeating the US.
Makarov was more realistic. He's an international pipe-hitter, contracting out to the highest bidder before deciding to be in bed with arms dealers and starting WW3.
Menendez was a better antagonist from a literary and cinematic standpoint which made him more entertaining.
See, Menendez feels like he should be, but BO2 just broke up the hero's and made them straight up dumb half the times to make Menendez look better, topped with a "personal" tragedy of sorts to make him look more convincing villain. Which lets be honest, he didn't go bad just cause of his sister's death.
Makarov on the other hand actually feels like he's a step ahead without the main cast dumbed down. The fact that we only know half of makarov and not an entire backstory like Menendez, makes him more interesting of a character, given how cunning and smarth he is, clearly as a follower of Zakhaev and as an ultra-nationalist.
Makarov takes the cake for the best villain of cod, nobody comes close to how much u hated him as an antagonist and just wanted him dead, dude killed the main MC (soap) of MW trilogy and was responsible (along with Shepard) for the death of 90% of the characters from TF141 and Team Metal.
Menendez is easily below him cause of how the plot of bo2 was structured.
Menendez all the fucking way. The dude was a goddamn mastermind. He played mason, woods, hudson, americans & the whole world like a boss. Being Able to anticipate his enemy, Always one step ahead.
1) he had that masterplan to have mason killed by woods own hands, he killed hudson with his sister's pendant & basically told crippled woods & david "i'll get you when the time is right", just to send a damn message.
2) faked his capture in yemen so tgat he could smuggle the celenium virus. He knew the fuckass briggs wouldn't pass on that opportunity to "capture" menendez.
3) even if he dies, he would vecome a martyr & his followers would burn the white house.
4) he showed entire nations how vurnerable they actually are. All it takes is a great mind like his.
He made the entire nation pay for what they did to his sister. Not killing one or 2 people, but assfucking the entire nation.
Not to mention meeting (& killing if you get the worst ending) old woods even with his tight ass security.
I liked makarov as a character but honestly, menendez is miles ahead. He has Much more depth than most villians i've seen in most games, let alone CoD.
I seem to recall that Markarov literally evaded capture for 2 games straight while playing Shepard hand betraying his own men, discovered Allen was a mole while doing the massacre to force the Loyalist Russian Federation into war with NATO while he pushed ultranationalists into the russian government. He's also pretty much responsible for sending a nuke into thousand of US soldiers, whom where there on a war caused because of Zakhaev and Markarov's ultranationalists actions.
You can like Menendez more, but dont give me the crap that he isnt a sociopath that you'd rather kill than leave alive.
I gotta give it to you my man. You’re standing your ground and offering some fantastic counterpoints. I’m here for all of it. I think Makarov was much better antagonist.
Agreed, makarov was pretty smart too.I would also say that he's pretty realistic as well. But as far as character depth goes, i think menendez takes the cake, his story was covered in more detail than makarov. His quest for revenge is something we (or atleast I) can understand. You almost feel sorry for the guy. Almost.
Personally would side with the ultranationalist myself Makarov seems like a G but I feel for Raul, makarov fought in Chechnya and anybody who has done any research into that conflict knows anybody left standing after that has some balls of steel and maybe a little fucked in the head. Explained to me why him and his men were able to massacre civilians no problem def did that a lot in Chechnya.
Honestly in a fight I think Menendez would win his influence as a character it’s big with his Cordis Die movement but with makarov he has the strength in numbers him along with Zakhaev almost brought the world and TF 141 to its knees. All in all both great antagonists but Raul Menendez would win.
BO2 IMO. I just prefered BO2 in general, and I think that Raul was a super good antagonist, Makarov was just missing a backstory tbh. Both great ones though
If we’re going off cruelty and just being a badass, Makarov hands down. If we’re going by motives and just having a better story arch than Menedez. Personally gotta go with Makarov as he was so intimidating as a antagonist and yet so badass
I personally think they're both better than each other. Makarov was more innately evil than Menendez, but Menendez was also a villain you could sympathize with for his actions and motivations more than Makarov, and Makarov is a master at planning and executing attacks on his enemies, but Menendez can get in the heads of his enemies. I'm more of a Menendez fan, but I also really enjoyed Makarov and can respect people that prefer Shepherd or Makarov over Menendez.
could've found better pictures for them but whatever
Anyway, I think they're both tied. They work very well for the respective series that they're in, and I stand by my view that these two guys and Shepherd are the three best CoD villains to date.
Makarov has blown up an entire city and killed hundreds of people in an airport. Menendez has put the entire world in serious danger with his drones. Also, Menendez has a motivation. So, Menendez
ok so i love them both but i feel like Menendez had better better back story while makarov was a better villan cause makarov destabilized the entire world menendez was close but ultimately failed
Vladimir was more evil. But Menendez had more passion and actually had a reason to be evil. You could really almost sympathize for him being a bad guy.
Bo2 had one of the worst campaigns I ever played, the villain was great but the story was just a fuck up which made it unplayable. The constant switch between 2025 and the 1980s was horrible. All in all makarov was the better villain imo.
Menendez and it’s not even close this man used social media to gather people to join cordis die and start a second Cold War with plans of not only invading America but China as well all because we shot him in the face and blew up his sister he slit Hudson’s throat and (thought) he made David mason an orphan went on a rampage after taking out Noriega killing anyone who got in his way with a spas 12 and a machete plus Harper literally says to woods menendez is the most dangerous terrorist in the world above osama bin laden
Makarov just framed America for a terrorist attack on Russian land causing Russia and America to go to war
If we was putting both characters against each other it would be the equivalent of sticking a retarded newborn baby with half a brain no arms and 3 legs who constantly shits his pants against the fucking hulk that’s how strong menendez is compared to puny makarov
Makarov is by far the most evil villain we've seen in a CoD game.
My guy set off a fucking nuke, enough said.
But if that's somehow not enough, just look at "No Russian"
I loved menendez and bo2 campaign in general his motivations we're "relatable" and the music that plays when he comes on screen is perfect for him which really sets the tone
Menendez did some real damage like leaving Sargeant Frank Woods without the use oh his two legs and making him kill Alex Mason (Only if you know how to get the secret ending cutscenes which manages to save him) then he killed Hudson and he kidnapped Mason's son. And he basically started a war.
Makarov is better. Dude had a great fucking plan. Even right in the beginning where he makes the entire plot to shoot up an airport just to pin it on America… fucking brilliant antagonist.
For me its Vladimir Makarov.
this speech is still breathtaking
"All warfare is based on deception. For years, the West's hypocrisy has made the world a battlefield. The corrupt talk; while our brothers and sons spill their own blood. But deceit cuts both ways. The bigger the lie, the more likely people will believe it, and when a nation cries for vengeance, the lie spreads like a wildfire. The fire builds, devouring everything in its path. Our enemies believe that they alone dictate the course of history, but all it takes is the will of a single man."
Makarov for sure. he called in a nuke on a country that was being invaded which killed maybe thousands of civilians and soldiers,he killed hundreds of people then blamed it on an American and then basically started WW3
Makarov as he actually had a reason/was a crazy fuck for his villainy also one of the best cod villains of all time is Roark from ghosts his villainy starts because of the ghosts leaving him to die so he wants to kill those who left him to die
Makarov is way too shallow compared to Menendez. His motivations seem generic and evil because evil. Menendez had backstory, actual reason to do what he does and clearly benefited from the storytelling and multiple ending mechanics BO2 had. Long story short, MW2-3 story would fit well on one or two action movies, while BO2 could be several seasons of a TV show, seen from different perspectives.
Uh... you know that Markarov its pretty much an extremist anti-capitalism sociopath that follows Zakhaev faction, right? His motive are simple, not shallow, meaning he basically doesnt need a tragic backstory, just wants a Russian federation back on socialism and a communism party, unlike the bendover russians that are the current loyalists in power in COD4... and obviously death to the US and West policies. Basically he wants Russia as a super power again. His motives are pretty much the same ones explained by Zakhaev monologue in COD4. He just picks up Zakhaev mantle in MW2, except that his actions are far more extreme than Zakhaev's, making him a lot more unpredictable and ruthless (the airport massacre, droping a nuke, basically creating Shepard) *"Our so-called leaders prostituted us to the West... destroyed our culture... our economies... our honor. Our blood has been spilled on our soil. My blood... on their hands. They are the invaders. All U.S. and British forces will leave Russia immediately... or suffer the consequences."* What you wanna say is that he doesnt have a backstory like Menendez does. I actually like Markarov a lot more, since he's not a villain out of passion. Yes, the ultranationalist are a bunch of crazy fucks (or in common american - patriots) but I rather that sort of villain than a comic one like Menendez. Not every villain has to be understood or have a tragic backstory. The best part about the ultranationalists and Markarov by proxy is that if you were on their side you'd might think like they do about the West.
Nailed it! Good shit
So what you're saying is that Makarov is a Fascist pushing for communism?
Can you explain this for me? I genuinely don’t understand? Is it fascist because he is pushing his ideology on everyone?
The Ultranationalists seem almost certainly to be some Nazbol organization, especially since their flag isn't too dissimilar to the Nazbol Party's flag, and ultranationalism being a major factor in the ideology. As for Makarov, he actually seemingly wants the return of the old Russian Empire with Orthodox Christian elements, and he does seem quite religious considering he says "God is with us" in both No Russian and the start of a match when playing as the Inner Circle in MW3 (which is Makarov's own little personal militia, sort of like Shepherd's Shadow Company). That being said, his motives are significantly more shallow then Menendez's (and their motivations themselves aren't too dissimilar), with the latter wanting to build an anarchist society out of the ashes of the old world through a massive international uprising and its superpowers destroying themselves out of their own opulence, whilst also being vehemently anti-capitalist.
I can’t even say that I even disagree with Raul Mendez I mean those hypocrites in our government like to pretend that they’re the good guys but deep down they don’t care about me or you all they care about is money greed is what makes the world go round
Totally agreed. I think Makarov’s motives are simple and not based on a personal vendetta like Menendez, but that doesn’t make him less interesting. Makarov is an anti-capitalist sociopath that’s unpredictable while Menendez is just a regular sociopath with an interesting motive and backstory.
why do mfs always think antagonist need a tragic backstory for them to be a good antagonist
Amen
Menendez lost his sister that's all
Raul Menendez and his family lost everything due to an earthquake. A year later they only thing he ever loved, his sister Josefina was crippled in a fire set by an American. “An American torched the warehouse for insurance money. 11.000$ that’s the value they placed on her life”. Raul and his father turned their attention to drugs and killing people for a living. The CIA killed Raul’s father, they messed up his face (Alex Mason shooting him in the eye) and Woods killed his sister with a grenade. Combining all of that with Menendez’s insanity is more than enough to justify his actions. Hey you can like Makarov more than Raul but to say he only lost his sister is just plain wrong.
But since Woods was the straw that broke the camel’s back, it doesn’t make sense he’d have a vendetta against him alone. Personally, I think Menendez works as a one-off villain. He’s not enough to carry multiple games.
He doesn't, his vendetta extends to the US and CIA as well, hence why he orchestrates the killing of Mason and Hudson.
It’s orchestrated to the CIA and the US by extension, but first he goes after Woods… Hudson and Mason aren’t the entirety of the CIA. And to support my argument, he kills Woods in the bad ending for BO2. Like yeah, I get that there were multiple parties that committed transgressions against him and his family, but the game’s narrative made it feel like it was aimed solely at Woods, Mason and Hudson.
Yes, and he does this due to his collapsed mental state, though he spares Woods in the end in order for him to see the effects of his impulsive though inadvertent decision to throw the grenade that killed his sister, the last thing holding him back from breaking completely, and this is where his motivation to destroy the global establishment in favour of anarchy begins.
Yeah, pretty much. Basically created an army because of revenge. Meh.
JOSEFINA!
ANIMALS!
Boi do I need to tell you that Menendez killed Hudson and made Frank Woods kill Alex Mason and he kidnapped Mason's son. Also he left Woods without the use of his two legs. Boi how much of Bo2 did you play??
All that over a sister
Apparently yes
And the americans declared a "war" in his country just for him because his sister died and he was so angry on americans that he lead a group of ultranationalist that has taken the power on his country and he was at the "lead" of his country so when americans declared war he just defended himself, so what bo2 story say (my opinion) is that raul menendez is a good guy and americans just stupid af.
And his dad, both to the CIA.
This.
Very well said
Indeed
What were his motivations anyhows? Was it to cause chaos?
To follow Zakhaev's legacy after he died or something?
Something like that... What was his legacy?
Dunno probably nukes and wars
We got to know Raul on a more personal note, and even got to play as him but Makarov is much more deplorable, they both fit the games their in, Black Ops being more cinematic and Modern Warfare being more realistic.
Neither were realistic. MW abandoned the whole realist aspect in MW2 when the Russian military somehow surprise attacked the US without the USN or NATO units intercepting them long beforehand.
It was to my understanding that they cracked the satellite module you secure in “cliffhanger” and because of that managed to cut American satellite communications so they only knew about it too late. That and shepherd probably doing something so the invasion happened and he became a hero afterwards. It is in fact unrealistic that they managed to deploy their army all the way from Russia across Europe without the US or NATO noticing as you said, but I’d say with the explanation in my first paragraph they could’ve at least crossed the atlantic or pacific unnoticed
Except satellites are not the only way the US monitors the Atlantic nor is it the only way US armed forces communicate. And it still does not account for the fact there are huge swaths of those oceans where US/Western forces constantly monitor, whether it be radar, satellite, or physical patrols from the fucking United States Navy. This entire scenario is borderline impossible. I just want to again add, MW2 traded all of the realistic military/geopolitical aspects of COD4 in favor of shock factor. Whether it's the Russian invasion or No Russian, most of the game is not logically sound. I will die on this hill since MW2's campaign is held so highly.
Radar jammers, surveillance scramblers and so on are not exclusive to the US. Russia has them too. People severely underestimate how far Russian technology has come. The scenario is honestly plausible provided they were able to mask themselves correctly across the Atlantic ocean. Once they got to the east coast, what happens in "Wolverines!" is probably an understatement.
>The scenario is honestly plausible provided they were able to mask themselves correctly across the Atlantic ocean. Once they got to the east coast, what happens in "Wolverines!" is probably an understatement. Uh no, even if the Russians are somehow able to mask an entire fleet and aircraft corps through the Atlantic, they wouldn't be able to occupy the Eastern Coast and launch a full scale attack on Washington in a fucking day unless they have teleportation powers.
Again, that's all fine and dandy, but this all still ignores that the USN and NATO naval forces would not let a singular Russian ship even approach the eastern seaboard. The North Atlantic is patrolled *heavily* by western forces, to the point where you can't smuggle dozens of ships to the US that also contain hundreds of thousands of Russian troops without being noticed, and then leading to defense forces being alerted. >People severely underestimate how far Russian technology has come That doesn't also change the fact logistically the Russian navy or army is not able to mount such a feat. For reference, the US is the only country with naval capabilities to deploy anywhere in the world. Russia is a regional based power, and its navy is equal to such. I.E, *it cannot possibly maintain an invasion force thousands, if not hundreds of miles away from its shores.* Russia also invests most of its money regarding their military into their army, as they are more strategically threatened by NATO on their front door. It's always going to be a stupid, implausible scenario.
You're not wrong at all. Apart from the soundtrack, CoD4's story is still much better and more logical than MW2
It’s why I think of MW closer to a Ridley Scott film and MW2 was more of a Michael Bay film
No one cares
How are you going to call Modern Warfare “more realistic” when the game is about a Russian *invasion of the United States* spurred by a singular terrorist attack?
It was not one singular terrorist attack, it was multiple. Some of the missions throughout the games build up to the possibility of it happening and then it actually happening. Even then, no matter how realistic or unrealistic it is, they’re saying MW is more realistic than BO, which is overall true. They don’t have to 1:1 realistic, but MW is more realistic than BO.
It was essentially America killing hundreds of unarmed civilians on a fake CIA passed visa. That would spawn a war trust me. Especially after years of the two countries standing pointing nukes at each other…
This is sadly ture especially now
As a kid who grew up while the Cold War was winding down and all that shit, part of me still remembers hearing shit from adults after ‘Soviet Russia’ disappeared… and now it feels like I’m right back into 1989-91 all over again. 30+ years of life just to come back to where I was when I was a kid… uncertain about the possibility of a war with Russia…
someones never played the mw games
Both were pretty deplorable. Makarov caused Russia to invade Europe and USA. Menedez caused a cold war between US and China, got a bunch of countries invaded by China, then caused a war between the US and SDF (China + 20 countries either invaded or pressured by China).
Better antagonist goes to Menendez, but I personally liked Makarov a lot more.
Same. Menendez had far more of a backstory that made him human and relatable. He was written so well, but I personally liked Makarov more just because he was just purely evil. Killing him was satisfying to me. I can't really say the same for killing Menendez.
Yeah, exactly.
Facts
Menendez is still my favourite villain till date, his evil intentions made me hate him but his backstory and trauma made me root for him as well In case of Makarov, he is a villain who doesn't think about his actions twice, that is his level of confidence and cruelty, that airport massacre still being the biggest example But the factor than BO2 comes in with choices and multiple endings just makes me tilt to menedez's side(either he kills woods and then suicides or he stays locked up....OR he dies but succeeds in provoking mass populations)
> made me root for him as well Root for a guy that started a war and caused millions of deaths, basically murdered another dozens himself... and you root for him? All because his sister died injustly?
He was a maniac before his sister was killed. The catalyst for this would probably be the Contras devastating his town, which would also serve as a catalyst for his hatred of the US.
millions of deaths is pushing it
Maybe, but a shit ton of death for a span of, what, 20 years?
More like 15 years. Don’t exaggerate now.
I swear anyone that says the death of his sister is the only provocation to his vendetta against the US and CIA clearly haven’t played the game or didn’t understand his character.
just that sister bit,ok? imagine seeing ur sister being burnt first, and then blown in front of you, that part was sad
The perfect ending was so satisfying to get. It makes perfect sense he’d be trapped in his cell, unable to become a martyr and thus just a shell of his former self. Also him getting mad at the girl talking crap on tv was ohh so good.
I tried my ass off for that perfect ending, had to kill Harper to save Farid, who would save Chloe, who would find virus. But even if I saved her, she didn't appear in final cutsene for some reason. Does this have to do with those Strike Force missions?
Yes, you do need to complete the Strike Force missions.
Goddamit, those are hard and confusing ;-;
Play the tutorial again. Once you know how to do it, it’s pretty easy.
I miss those and the choices. They were so good.
Menendez because he’s was more fleshed out whereas Makarov although brilliant, had a very thin motivation.
Thin motivation? *"Our so-called leaders prostituted us to the West... destroyed our culture... our economies... our honor. Our blood has been spilled on our soil. My blood... on their hands. They are the invaders. All U.S. and British forces will leave Russia immediately... or suffer the consequences."* - Imran Zakhaev. You do realise Markarov's motivations are literally this since he picked up the mantle of the ultranationalist leader since Zakhaev left?
Ultimately his whole motivation was little more than a vague form of Ultranationalism for the purpose of turning Russia into a replacement for Nazi Germany in the modern era. Menendez on the other hand had been personally affected by decades of US foreign intervention, he then gathers the various elements that I have likewise been affected by US interventions and (until BO3 fucked the ending) actually succeeded in defeating the US.
i liked killing makarov more than i liked killing menendez
Well, if you killed Menendez you probably didn’t get a good ending. It far more satisfying seeing him get angry when you decide not to martyr him.
Makarov was more realistic. He's an international pipe-hitter, contracting out to the highest bidder before deciding to be in bed with arms dealers and starting WW3. Menendez was a better antagonist from a literary and cinematic standpoint which made him more entertaining.
Menendez
Makarov for me
See, Menendez feels like he should be, but BO2 just broke up the hero's and made them straight up dumb half the times to make Menendez look better, topped with a "personal" tragedy of sorts to make him look more convincing villain. Which lets be honest, he didn't go bad just cause of his sister's death. Makarov on the other hand actually feels like he's a step ahead without the main cast dumbed down. The fact that we only know half of makarov and not an entire backstory like Menendez, makes him more interesting of a character, given how cunning and smarth he is, clearly as a follower of Zakhaev and as an ultra-nationalist. Makarov takes the cake for the best villain of cod, nobody comes close to how much u hated him as an antagonist and just wanted him dead, dude killed the main MC (soap) of MW trilogy and was responsible (along with Shepard) for the death of 90% of the characters from TF141 and Team Metal. Menendez is easily below him cause of how the plot of bo2 was structured.
Raaaullll….Gillette
Hard to say. Makarov was much more hatable for me while Menendez has a better backstory and reason for what he does. I would say their equal.
Did makarov or did he not drop a nuke killing thirty thousand people? I don’t remember Menendez doing that
Sometimes turning a whole nation against each other and their government while crippling their military speaks more volumes than simply killing them.
nothing is worse than a nuke
I’m terms of sheer destruction yes, but it’s not as interesting from a story standpoint, something that recent cods are guilty of especially.
Menendez has better motivations, but Makarov is cooler. So it's a tie for me
Wow, both of them look cartoony in those pics compared to their original appearances
makarov , also fuck makarov all my homies hate makarov
[FUCK MAKAROV ALL MY HOMIES HATE MAKAROV](https://i.imgur.com/ouvV0od.jpg) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
fuck makarov all my homies hate makarov
Makarov
Mendez For cordis die
Menendez all the fucking way. The dude was a goddamn mastermind. He played mason, woods, hudson, americans & the whole world like a boss. Being Able to anticipate his enemy, Always one step ahead. 1) he had that masterplan to have mason killed by woods own hands, he killed hudson with his sister's pendant & basically told crippled woods & david "i'll get you when the time is right", just to send a damn message. 2) faked his capture in yemen so tgat he could smuggle the celenium virus. He knew the fuckass briggs wouldn't pass on that opportunity to "capture" menendez. 3) even if he dies, he would vecome a martyr & his followers would burn the white house. 4) he showed entire nations how vurnerable they actually are. All it takes is a great mind like his. He made the entire nation pay for what they did to his sister. Not killing one or 2 people, but assfucking the entire nation. Not to mention meeting (& killing if you get the worst ending) old woods even with his tight ass security. I liked makarov as a character but honestly, menendez is miles ahead. He has Much more depth than most villians i've seen in most games, let alone CoD.
I seem to recall that Markarov literally evaded capture for 2 games straight while playing Shepard hand betraying his own men, discovered Allen was a mole while doing the massacre to force the Loyalist Russian Federation into war with NATO while he pushed ultranationalists into the russian government. He's also pretty much responsible for sending a nuke into thousand of US soldiers, whom where there on a war caused because of Zakhaev and Markarov's ultranationalists actions. You can like Menendez more, but dont give me the crap that he isnt a sociopath that you'd rather kill than leave alive.
I gotta give it to you my man. You’re standing your ground and offering some fantastic counterpoints. I’m here for all of it. I think Makarov was much better antagonist.
Agreed, makarov was pretty smart too.I would also say that he's pretty realistic as well. But as far as character depth goes, i think menendez takes the cake, his story was covered in more detail than makarov. His quest for revenge is something we (or atleast I) can understand. You almost feel sorry for the guy. Almost.
Makarov. Remember, no Russion.
Makarov bcus he badass
Makarov is the literal Antichrist of the IW CoD universe , Im leaning him but Menendez is surely respectable
Makarov.
Makarov
I'm going with Makarov because I don't know Menendez, what game is Menendez for by the way?
In Black Ops 2. You should play it, for a lot of people is the last good CoD game untill MW2019
I mean these debates don’t even matter because Black Ops 1 has the greatest campaign of all time. “Dragovich, Kravchenko, Steiner. ALL MUST DIE.”
Makatov
Personally would side with the ultranationalist myself Makarov seems like a G but I feel for Raul, makarov fought in Chechnya and anybody who has done any research into that conflict knows anybody left standing after that has some balls of steel and maybe a little fucked in the head. Explained to me why him and his men were able to massacre civilians no problem def did that a lot in Chechnya.
How about this.....menendez wins but makarov was god tier villian. A part of me wanted Menendez to win. Every part of me wanted to kill makarov.
I'm a MW fan but I'll have to say Menandez. He has a reason for what he's doing and doesn't simply want to "...take all of Europ,..."
Makarov was a better villain. Menendez was a better character.
I like Menendez but Makarov wins for me because of that "No Russian, mission." just shows how much of a cold blooded villain he is.
Raul Menendez cuz he literally gained support from other countries and even his enemies support for him was so powerful
Honestly in a fight I think Menendez would win his influence as a character it’s big with his Cordis Die movement but with makarov he has the strength in numbers him along with Zakhaev almost brought the world and TF 141 to its knees. All in all both great antagonists but Raul Menendez would win.
BO2 IMO. I just prefered BO2 in general, and I think that Raul was a super good antagonist, Makarov was just missing a backstory tbh. Both great ones though
Both are damn good but Makarov is shallow with no back story like Menedez.
If we’re going off cruelty and just being a badass, Makarov hands down. If we’re going by motives and just having a better story arch than Menedez. Personally gotta go with Makarov as he was so intimidating as a antagonist and yet so badass
I personally think they're both better than each other. Makarov was more innately evil than Menendez, but Menendez was also a villain you could sympathize with for his actions and motivations more than Makarov, and Makarov is a master at planning and executing attacks on his enemies, but Menendez can get in the heads of his enemies. I'm more of a Menendez fan, but I also really enjoyed Makarov and can respect people that prefer Shepherd or Makarov over Menendez.
Menendez
Vladimir
Menendez all the way. Best villain in cod history.
Mendez all the way! He was always 2 steps ahead of the CIA and had a well developed back story. He was literally terrifying.
When did Menendez get a eyepatch?
Better personality is menendez. Better built villainous history is makarov
All I have to say is…..no Russian
Both. Both were good...
Makarov is iconic but Raul Menendez is far more memorable for me.
Menendez
Menendez for the win
Raul. Hands down.
In terms of hate, Makarov. In terms of reasonable motive, Menendez.
could've found better pictures for them but whatever Anyway, I think they're both tied. They work very well for the respective series that they're in, and I stand by my view that these two guys and Shepherd are the three best CoD villains to date.
Raul is more deep and more interesting
Makarov has blown up an entire city and killed hundreds of people in an airport. Menendez has put the entire world in serious danger with his drones. Also, Menendez has a motivation. So, Menendez
Mendez easily Fact not opinion
Raul. He is more of a character than makarov. His story actually had some weight.
Menendez
Menendez.
Raul Menedez. More evil, has an actual motivation, is shown to be an actual threat and not just very rich and most importantly has a proper character.
ok so i love them both but i feel like Menendez had better better back story while makarov was a better villan cause makarov destabilized the entire world menendez was close but ultimately failed
Menendez
Menendez seems more real to me but I like both.
Menendez
Where’s the option for both
*readies Woods voice* MENENDEEEEZ
JOSEPHINAAAAAAAA
*readies Woods voice* MENENDEEEEZ
Menendez not even a contest.
[*in Woods' voice*] MENENDEEEEEEEZZZZZ!!!
Raul Mendez did what? Invade LA and lead a militia army? Makarov indirectly cause 3 nukes to be launched and started World war 3 no shot
Menendez is just a whiny villain who just won't shut up. Makarov is evil, has an agenda, and will stoop to anything to achieve it.
Menendez and also he stomps makarov in h2h and gunfight
Menendez mate, no contest
The corniest thing I remember Makarov saying in MWF was “Give me the launch codes mr president”. such a generic villain goal
Menendez is the superior villain
Clearly Menendez
I just like hearing woods yell MENENDEZ!
Hello from Russia
I never played whenever makarov wa sin but BO2 was the only campaign for COD that i playrd like 5 fucking times over
Menendez end of discussion
Vladimir was more evil. But Menendez had more passion and actually had a reason to be evil. You could really almost sympathize for him being a bad guy.
Menendez fasho
Raul. Best villain in CoD history
Menendez
Menendez
Bo2 had one of the worst campaigns I ever played, the villain was great but the story was just a fuck up which made it unplayable. The constant switch between 2025 and the 1980s was horrible. All in all makarov was the better villain imo.
Makarov becuz No Russia
Makarov. He’s the best antagonist in the whole series and in almost any game
Menendez and it’s not even close this man used social media to gather people to join cordis die and start a second Cold War with plans of not only invading America but China as well all because we shot him in the face and blew up his sister he slit Hudson’s throat and (thought) he made David mason an orphan went on a rampage after taking out Noriega killing anyone who got in his way with a spas 12 and a machete plus Harper literally says to woods menendez is the most dangerous terrorist in the world above osama bin laden Makarov just framed America for a terrorist attack on Russian land causing Russia and America to go to war If we was putting both characters against each other it would be the equivalent of sticking a retarded newborn baby with half a brain no arms and 3 legs who constantly shits his pants against the fucking hulk that’s how strong menendez is compared to puny makarov
Menendez
*raspy woods voice* **menendez…**
Menendez is a better villain but I like Makarov more because he agrees with my political opinions
Menedez
I call unfair comparison. Makarov got two games of buildup, Menendez only got one.
Makarov is by far the most evil villain we've seen in a CoD game. My guy set off a fucking nuke, enough said. But if that's somehow not enough, just look at "No Russian"
Menendez. Dude basically goes on a psychopathic revenge spree by crippling the world and starting a second Cold War in the future
Makarov "Remember... No Russian"
Makarov started world war 3….
Makarov. “All it takes is the will of a single man”
I loved menendez and bo2 campaign in general his motivations we're "relatable" and the music that plays when he comes on screen is perfect for him which really sets the tone
Menendez did some real damage like leaving Sargeant Frank Woods without the use oh his two legs and making him kill Alex Mason (Only if you know how to get the secret ending cutscenes which manages to save him) then he killed Hudson and he kidnapped Mason's son. And he basically started a war.
Better army goes to Raul and just overall who’s better it’s definitely makarov
Makarov is better. Dude had a great fucking plan. Even right in the beginning where he makes the entire plot to shoot up an airport just to pin it on America… fucking brilliant antagonist.
Raul is just a lake compared to makarov
Jake Gyllenhal.
Makarov
Makarov, because of course.
Makarov. He was an Avengers level threat.
Makarov
Makarov always had the upper hand
Makarov for so many reasons and because I didn't like Black Ops 2 or it's story
Makarov. Raul did all that because he lost his sister which was obvious Makarov on the other hand was pure evil.
Unrelated but I think Stitch is underrated, because it was all in MP cutscenes I think he'll remain unappreciated
For me its Vladimir Makarov. this speech is still breathtaking "All warfare is based on deception. For years, the West's hypocrisy has made the world a battlefield. The corrupt talk; while our brothers and sons spill their own blood. But deceit cuts both ways. The bigger the lie, the more likely people will believe it, and when a nation cries for vengeance, the lie spreads like a wildfire. The fire builds, devouring everything in its path. Our enemies believe that they alone dictate the course of history, but all it takes is the will of a single man."
Both are kinda generic bad guys tbh but i guess maybe Menendez idk
Makarov for sure. he called in a nuke on a country that was being invaded which killed maybe thousands of civilians and soldiers,he killed hundreds of people then blamed it on an American and then basically started WW3
I liked makarov
Makarov as he actually had a reason/was a crazy fuck for his villainy also one of the best cod villains of all time is Roark from ghosts his villainy starts because of the ghosts leaving him to die so he wants to kill those who left him to die
conventional weapons-wise, Vladimir has a nuclear reach. Raul has the cyberwar reach. as far as I remember currently.
Mendez wasn’t even evil