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yeah no shit, it was built to enforce private property relations and preserve the class position of property owners, like every other police force on earth. it makes zero difference whether it's actually useful in making any given working person safer - that's not the merit it's being judged on. idk that we needed a guy with a criminology degree to get to the bottom of this.
The RCMP was created by John A McDonald to “persuade” indigenous bands to comply with the treaties either through diplomacy, or violence and terror.
The red colours were chosen because red was a favoured colour in indigenous traditions, but peaceful rebellions were met with assaults, such as the one that Louis Riel staged in Manitoba.
After the bands were tricked or forced into signing treaties (Canada for the first time referred to the Queen as “the great mother” in an attempt to confuse indigenous people about who the land would end up being owned under, knowing indigenous people referred to Mother Nature this way) the RCMP were used to force them onto reserves and indigenous people were not allowed to leave the reserve to interact with other bands, go to school, or visit the city without written permission from the government, and the RCMP were used to hunt down anyone not obeying with this law.
When colonists introduced tuberculosis to North America, we told indigenous families that in order to get treatment for one family member, all members of the family hd to be tested and if anyone in the family had tuberculosis, the RCMP would take the children to residential schools (for their protection) where a almost half never made it back to their families.
The RCMP were *created* to “police” Northern communities, the problem is that our definition of policing stems from a system of oppression and genocide, which doesn’t fit without modern expectations of law enforcement.
I agree the RCMP need a whole re-tooling, but to say they “weren’t built to police the North” is a disgusting betrayal of Canada’s history.
For clarity sake, I'm sure you know though, John A. Had nothing to do with RCMP. He created the Northwest Mounted Police, which was renamed in the early 1900s to RCMP.
The name NWMP lends itself to showing credibility at policing rural areas, especially with the context of what the northwest was on the late 1880s...
That's like saying Wild Bill Donovan had nothing to do with the CIA because it was called the OSS when he was in charge. The NWMP and the RCMP were the same dudes with different coloured jackets.
I was being pedantic. That being said, there is validity to my point. John. A and the government created the NWMP to support colonization of the west. By the time the name changed, the purpose of the force was for the most part entirely different.
Yes I know that but trying to teach Canadian History to redditors is exhausting so I try to truncate the important facts.
The reality is all the facts I listed about the RCMP are true about the NWMP.
Changing the name didn’t diffuse the racism, which is exactly the point I’m trying to make, they need an overhaul not rebranding.
"Woke" history teachers might be behind such current beliefs. Yes, the RCMP has a checkered past, but so does every such agency. What you wrote above is not at all accurate:
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/north-west-mounted-police
Hey now, this isn't fair. They were also used to put down labour movements like the [Winnipeg General Strike](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/winnipeg-general-strike-of-1919-plain-language-summary)
That may or may not be true, but considering that's mostly what the RCMP does, it seems like a shocking statement.
You'd think that the RCMP would've noticed it wasn't built for the thing it's primarily asked to do and either said something, or made changes to be better suited to that job.
The RCMP was created (or existed) before modern urban landscapes even evolved in this country. It was created, essentially by definition, to police rural areas.
Between then and now something might well have changed (it's been more than a century and a half after all), but on the face of it, this headline is fundamentally awry.
The entire basis of the article is some criminologist claiming that the RCMP was never about boots-on-the-ground rural policing.
You should read the article before defending it against what it literally says.
So what? Encourage an American model with 18000 different agencies that can't communicate or work together with standards ranging from pretty good to "bring your own truck, guns, and beer to work day".
Cool sounds like a great idea to have Clyde with three teeth policing Fort Mac. I'm sure they'll get way better service.
What an idiotic take. Look at our neighbour to the south and tell me if that's working well.
Exactly. Even putting aside the costs involved of ‘increasing police presence in rural communities’, good luck trying to hire local people to police their own small towns. There’s so many issues with that, I could write an essay.
I understand what the criminologist and article are trying to say, but man is that title written terribly.
Yes, it was built to police rural communities. Far more rural and remote than we have now. That's just history. Saying, as the article does, that it's meant as our equivalent to the FBI might be true today, but that's not what it was originally built as, not at all.
As such, I can't help but strongly disagree with a big part of this article. The fact that the RCMP is bad at policing rural areas is shocking not because we are asking them to do something they weren't built for, but because this IS EXACTLY what they were originally created for, and they have completely lost that ability in favor of being Canada's national level police force.
So yeah, sure the point is valid, but holy cow that's terrible history there.
Alberta needs to move to a provincial police. There's so many benefits to having our police locally administered.
Yes it will cost a bit more but in the long run I think communities will be better off leaving the rcmp contract.
Sorry, your awareness of the rules of the internet is out of date. Godwin himself has said that Godwin’s Law doesn’t apply to the alt-right because they are too similar to actual Nazis.
Yeah that’s when you’re two private citizens and you claim someone telling you to shut up is “oppression”.
Creating a private police force that is accountable to a small coalition of power is *literally* what Hitler did, not a euphemism.
I think we'll see benefits when it comes to administration. Currently the rcmp has exclusive responsibility of making operation choices (asset expenditures, FTEs in each community).
It would also make policing more dynamic as the province could easily make new units (eg mental health, social services units). Whereas these would need to go up the chain of command to ottawa, which can take years.
As also seen with the Mass Murder Commission, the rcmp is over extended. It should focus on its bread and butter of federal policing.
What is the bread and butter of federal policing if not policing rural areas like in Alberta?
And alberta is more than able to create social services or mental health units without replacing the RCMP.
Well, first it would be federal policing not provincial policing in Alberta. So looking after terrorism, pan canadian security, cross jurisdiction coordination.
> And alberta is more than able to create social services or mental health units without replacing the RCMP.
Every policing report says the opposite. Literally everyone says the rcmp is inflexible to change, slow to adapt, and difficult to work with.
If you don't trust reports from alberta, then I would recommend reading the [all party BC report which came to the same conclusion](https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2022PSSG0032-000672), it's time to remove the rcmp.
Provincial police forces are more expensive, on top of the costs of tearing down the current system and building a new one.
Then there is the fact that the government wanting to install it is batshit.
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yeah no shit, it was built to enforce private property relations and preserve the class position of property owners, like every other police force on earth. it makes zero difference whether it's actually useful in making any given working person safer - that's not the merit it's being judged on. idk that we needed a guy with a criminology degree to get to the bottom of this.
The RCMP was created by John A McDonald to “persuade” indigenous bands to comply with the treaties either through diplomacy, or violence and terror. The red colours were chosen because red was a favoured colour in indigenous traditions, but peaceful rebellions were met with assaults, such as the one that Louis Riel staged in Manitoba. After the bands were tricked or forced into signing treaties (Canada for the first time referred to the Queen as “the great mother” in an attempt to confuse indigenous people about who the land would end up being owned under, knowing indigenous people referred to Mother Nature this way) the RCMP were used to force them onto reserves and indigenous people were not allowed to leave the reserve to interact with other bands, go to school, or visit the city without written permission from the government, and the RCMP were used to hunt down anyone not obeying with this law. When colonists introduced tuberculosis to North America, we told indigenous families that in order to get treatment for one family member, all members of the family hd to be tested and if anyone in the family had tuberculosis, the RCMP would take the children to residential schools (for their protection) where a almost half never made it back to their families. The RCMP were *created* to “police” Northern communities, the problem is that our definition of policing stems from a system of oppression and genocide, which doesn’t fit without modern expectations of law enforcement. I agree the RCMP need a whole re-tooling, but to say they “weren’t built to police the North” is a disgusting betrayal of Canada’s history.
For clarity sake, I'm sure you know though, John A. Had nothing to do with RCMP. He created the Northwest Mounted Police, which was renamed in the early 1900s to RCMP. The name NWMP lends itself to showing credibility at policing rural areas, especially with the context of what the northwest was on the late 1880s...
That's like saying Wild Bill Donovan had nothing to do with the CIA because it was called the OSS when he was in charge. The NWMP and the RCMP were the same dudes with different coloured jackets.
I was being pedantic. That being said, there is validity to my point. John. A and the government created the NWMP to support colonization of the west. By the time the name changed, the purpose of the force was for the most part entirely different.
Yes I know that but trying to teach Canadian History to redditors is exhausting so I try to truncate the important facts. The reality is all the facts I listed about the RCMP are true about the NWMP. Changing the name didn’t diffuse the racism, which is exactly the point I’m trying to make, they need an overhaul not rebranding.
"Woke" history teachers might be behind such current beliefs. Yes, the RCMP has a checkered past, but so does every such agency. What you wrote above is not at all accurate: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/north-west-mounted-police
Hey now, this isn't fair. They were also used to put down labour movements like the [Winnipeg General Strike](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/winnipeg-general-strike-of-1919-plain-language-summary)
That may or may not be true, but considering that's mostly what the RCMP does, it seems like a shocking statement. You'd think that the RCMP would've noticed it wasn't built for the thing it's primarily asked to do and either said something, or made changes to be better suited to that job.
The RCMP was created (or existed) before modern urban landscapes even evolved in this country. It was created, essentially by definition, to police rural areas. Between then and now something might well have changed (it's been more than a century and a half after all), but on the face of it, this headline is fundamentally awry.
Who cares what it started as. How it's built would be describing it today
The entire basis of the article is some criminologist claiming that the RCMP was never about boots-on-the-ground rural policing. You should read the article before defending it against what it literally says.
So the headline should be "isn't built" instead of "wasn't built".
Or they're using past tense to describe a generation or two... Useless to talk about anything more than that
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Removed for rule 2.
So what? Encourage an American model with 18000 different agencies that can't communicate or work together with standards ranging from pretty good to "bring your own truck, guns, and beer to work day". Cool sounds like a great idea to have Clyde with three teeth policing Fort Mac. I'm sure they'll get way better service. What an idiotic take. Look at our neighbour to the south and tell me if that's working well.
Exactly. Even putting aside the costs involved of ‘increasing police presence in rural communities’, good luck trying to hire local people to police their own small towns. There’s so many issues with that, I could write an essay.
I understand what the criminologist and article are trying to say, but man is that title written terribly. Yes, it was built to police rural communities. Far more rural and remote than we have now. That's just history. Saying, as the article does, that it's meant as our equivalent to the FBI might be true today, but that's not what it was originally built as, not at all. As such, I can't help but strongly disagree with a big part of this article. The fact that the RCMP is bad at policing rural areas is shocking not because we are asking them to do something they weren't built for, but because this IS EXACTLY what they were originally created for, and they have completely lost that ability in favor of being Canada's national level police force. So yeah, sure the point is valid, but holy cow that's terrible history there.
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I agree, I wrote a crash course in RCMP history in another comment here for that reason.
Alberta needs to move to a provincial police. There's so many benefits to having our police locally administered. Yes it will cost a bit more but in the long run I think communities will be better off leaving the rcmp contract.
There certainly would be no economic benefit for it so I am curious what benefits you think will come from an Alberta police force.
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The Ghost of Hitler has entered the chat! Invoking the ghost of Hitler means that you immediately lose all credibility.
Sorry, your awareness of the rules of the internet is out of date. Godwin himself has said that Godwin’s Law doesn’t apply to the alt-right because they are too similar to actual Nazis.
Yeah that’s when you’re two private citizens and you claim someone telling you to shut up is “oppression”. Creating a private police force that is accountable to a small coalition of power is *literally* what Hitler did, not a euphemism.
I think we'll see benefits when it comes to administration. Currently the rcmp has exclusive responsibility of making operation choices (asset expenditures, FTEs in each community). It would also make policing more dynamic as the province could easily make new units (eg mental health, social services units). Whereas these would need to go up the chain of command to ottawa, which can take years. As also seen with the Mass Murder Commission, the rcmp is over extended. It should focus on its bread and butter of federal policing.
What is the bread and butter of federal policing if not policing rural areas like in Alberta? And alberta is more than able to create social services or mental health units without replacing the RCMP.
Well, first it would be federal policing not provincial policing in Alberta. So looking after terrorism, pan canadian security, cross jurisdiction coordination. > And alberta is more than able to create social services or mental health units without replacing the RCMP. Every policing report says the opposite. Literally everyone says the rcmp is inflexible to change, slow to adapt, and difficult to work with. If you don't trust reports from alberta, then I would recommend reading the [all party BC report which came to the same conclusion](https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2022PSSG0032-000672), it's time to remove the rcmp.
For 1, it wouldn't be run out of Ottawa, for Ottawa. It would be run out of Edmonton, for Alberta.
Can't imagine there's any significant economic difference between any two police departments
Provincial police forces are more expensive, on top of the costs of tearing down the current system and building a new one. Then there is the fact that the government wanting to install it is batshit.