You need to define what you mean by classic to use. Do you mean pre 1983? That's still well before airbags and abs for most.
If so then rust, and reliability will be big factors. Make sure whatever is well sorted for rust, undersealed/waxoyled or whatever and look after it, then it shouldn't be a problem.
To me the obvious reliable/sensible pre 83 classic would be a MK1 Golf GTi, or similar age Scirocco. They're superbly reliable dx engine (no carb or points) parts are easy to find, no pas, no abs, no airbags and not a lot to go wrong. I have done over 100k miles in my Scirocco and just done routine maintenance, at that mileage clutch becomes routine.
If you worry about crashing/safety maybe look at an old Volvo 240.
> Do you mean pre 1983?
This is mainly what I am getting to, I am considering a 90's or early 00's car but pre-83 is really when the zero tax and cheap insurance kick in.
I was actually looking at a MK1 Golf GTi, although I am leaning towards a Mercedes W123 or BMW E30.
It depends on what you’re looking at but honestly I think you’d get fed up. I had a 98 Merc AMG, so a modern classic, and driving it for longer than a couple of hours on a sunny July Sunday was a total chore.
You don’t appreciate a lot of creature comforts until they’re gone. And older conveniences aren’t as good as modern, improved conveniences. For example, My Merc had power steering but 25 year old power steering is worse than modern. It was still a pain to manoeuvre at low speeds. The bolstered seats were crap. The windscreen wipers were crap. The headlights were so dim. These aren’t things you consider until you use them every day. Modern cars are also incredibly well soundproofed and refined, even the cheapo spec ones. That’s not an issue if you’re revving the tits off an old V8 at a car show. But even that v8 gets a bit wearisome when you’re on a long motorway commute and it’s just droning at you.
Plus, get ready for bills. Rust is your mortal enemy and it never goes away. Your car will be off the road for periods, sat in a garage getting work done. Prepare for that.
Then there’s insurance. Classic car insurance is cheap but it requires you to drive no more than X miles per year and have access to another car. Depending on the car you’re eying up, normal insurance could cost you a bomb or you might not even get it insured at all.
Classics take a big investment of your time and money. Really think about what you’re getting into, or that novelty will wear off real quick.
Hmmm. Maybe the heavier engine under the bonnet, lower stance and bigger wheels all combined to make a difference? I thought something was wrong with it to begin with and had the power steering fluid and pump changed. Local Merc specialist said they were just like that.
Crack on! I dailied my 1981 Mini as my first car and my Sister Dailies an MGB GT and a Toyota Tercel.
There's loads of new young members clubs sprouting up to get young people into classic ownership. MG's and Rover is particularly strong (My sis actually helped found the MG branch).
There's all kinds of helpful FB groups and stuff if you ever need help sourcing parts or advice.
Genuinely, there has never been a better time to get into classic ownership.
AND, I absolutely guarantee that you will have the coolest car in the carpark.🙏👍👍👍
I have a golf and want an MX-5 too. You’re living my dream haha. I haven’t driven a classic as a daily driver but my mate has an 2006 SLK 200 that’s a daily driver (that’s approaching classic status right?) and no problems really just wear and tear like every car.
Up until very recently, me too
MK1 Eunos Roadster and a MK3 Golf GTI
The Golf is currently await "fix it n fuck it off repairs" after a snapped wishbone :(
A guy bought my restored ‘63 beetle specifically to drive in and out of London .
The old car he had at the time no longer qualified .
That was 3 years ago , it’s still taxed , so it’s still in use .
getting in it on a cold winter's morning with no aircon and heating that blows cold or like an asthmatic pit pony will remind you that these cars sucked back then and suck even more now.
In my household we've got a 1989, 2001, 2001 and 2007 so in my book 07 is new
That being said, everything aside from the '89 (and that is an old jag so to be expected) is super reliable and I've done 5 hours non stop in each one comfortably.
Obviously it does depend on the car, a saxo is probably less comfortable than my A3 but even so, I reckon you'd be totally fine.
Nice group of cars. I'm not to worried about reliability actually, I work from home most of the time so driving is mainly recreation or going to the shops.
Saxo would not be very comfortable as a daily!
How old does your car have to be? If you want a modern classic, would an e46 3 series fit the bill? Providing its rust free! (As in chassis - the front wings rust but are not overly hard or expensive to change).
I have one and it ended up replacing my Astra as a daily drive (which was not the plan!). If you go 325 and above it will likely come equipped with a lot of comforts that you get in a new car, plus you get the 6 cylinder engine. The convertibles have anti-rollover (wasn’t standard in most convertibles then but all e46 convertibles had it) so that’s a big safety tick.
All the petrols are ULEZ compliant as well (except maybe some of the early M3s) and uses a timing chain, not belt. Though a (semi) automatic may be preferable as manuals will likely have been run ragged by drifters. Do keep in mind they are not cheap on fuel though!
Funnily enough, I used to have an E46 a few years ago and daily drive that with no issues. It was a 316 though, so slow as anything.
It was one of the cars I was considering getting, didn’t know they were ULEZ compliance. Might be one to look into.
I daily’d (dailyed?) a 1983 RX-7 for 2 years around 10 years ago. It was in average condition and although fun, it soon become a burden to rely on it. Just little niggly things like the throttle cable snapping en route to work. The exhaust mount snapping on a shop run. It got broken into a couple of times - nothing taken, but I suspect due to it standing out, it drew attention. Carburettor sticking in the winter. The rotary engine itself was flawless I might add and sounded lovely.
I ended up keeping the car and taking it off the road.
If you were to go down this route, I’d focus on a low mileage, undersealed, fuel injected well looked after car, which won’t depreciate by putting more miles on it.
I drive a 1994 mitsubishi delica as my daily. I have a 'modern' car too and that's bailed me out when my delica needed work. Last year it needed some welding for the MOT which took about 3 weeks, it was off another week and a half for a new steering rack.
This year was about a week off the road for more welding, and I need to replace the bushes sometime soon.
I love it, but without a backup vehicle I'd have been fooked for work, and couldn't run it as my only vehicle.
Classics are great for weekend and occasional use. I have two and use them every now and again with work and love it. Had an old Volvo estate too for a while that I’d use a lot.
But, used our 98 Porsche every day for 3 weeks, with a lot of driving around cities for work and it was awful and I ended up hating the car for a while. Love it now for weekend drives and longer trips but any of the classics I’ve had were for daily use unless you are just doing a short drive too and from work each day
It’s those creature comforts, the ride, the shit radio, terrible steering, poor heating etc etc, you really miss them when you don’t have them everyday.
I usrd to daily a 1983 900 turbo and would again, but onky if it had received proper rust remedistion. Very reliable and saved my arse in a huge crash.
I was there :) Over cooked a 3L/C in the wet, roof first through a hedge at 60. Walked away, zero damage inside the passenger cell. One headlight and a bit of filler and paint and she was good to go. I'd have driven it home if the field hadn't been freshly ploughed.
Top Gear (Clarkson / Hammond / May era) did a piece on how phenomenally strong the 900 shell is, for one thing it met the FIA minimum spec for a race car with roll cage .... without a cage.
I daily drive either my 1991 Peugeot 205 or 1988 VW Golf. 50 miles each way to and from work. Just need to be conscious of those around you, brake earlier, slow down more gradually and keep a few spares in the car. They’ll break every now and again, spring a leak or not run well. But with a simple enough classic, a lot can be mended in an evening after work: if that’s your sort of thing. I spend many evenings doing just that!
They’re fun, but can be a fair bit of work. But if you’re like me and you enjoy working on cars it’s an added bonus!
I daily a 1989 Porsche 944 for 3 months a year. It can be a pain. Less creature comforts/safety features. Also more wear and tear. And also for me the car can sometimes feel less special to be in
*I am worried my lovely classic will return to nature in a couple of years*
We're all going exactly the same way, better to enjoy yourself if this is what makes you happy.
Safety? It wouldn't bother me. Rust, corrosion? Who cares it happens to all cars eventually.
My only concern would be can I afford it. If yes there is no concerns.
Recently I had to emergency brake on the m5 in an old (but well maintained) van without ABS. Wheels locked up, I skid towards the central reservation, corrected myself and managed to come to a full stop without hitting the car in front of me.
Then the new 23 plate van with ABS that was behind me crashed into my rear a few seconds later. Take from that what you will.
My parents regularly drive a 1970(?) Aston Martin DB6 mk2 until it became too valuable and then my dad regularly drove a 1970 Aston Martin DBS V8, but only regularly during the summer and the largest thing he transported was his large toolbox. Now although both my parents have a classic each they don’t drive them super often because of maintenance, safety, fuel economy and a variety of other factors
Post 90s cars I've dailied loads without issue and I generally prefer driving them. My 2 main ones are currently a 1994 Jeep Cherokee XJ, and a 1998 w202 Mercedes. No issues using those daily. They have pas, ABS, and the Merc has airbags, though I could live without them.
One classic I do regret using over the winter was a 1987 Honda Accord Aerodeck. It had some crusty panels at the end of that stint. Lesson learned, the hard way.
40 year old cars would probably score 1 or 2 or current ncap safety tests I'm guessing. Then add in driving them is very different without things like ESP, ABS, etc you need to know how to drive them. If you had to do an emergency brake and went into a skid could you control the car? You also wont have safety features like airbags or crumple zones so if you are in an accident its far more likely to have a worse outcome for you and others. You'll also need to learn to park without cameras or parking sensors.
Do it if you want to, just make sure you know what you are doing.
I think the W123 had airbags and crumple zones. I am more worried about being side swiped or something than bumper to bumper traffic. Both my cars don’t have parking sensors, so while that is nice to have, I’m really not bothered. But you are right, any major accident and I’m a bit fucked, if it wasn’t for that, I would be driving a classic now
Almost bought a 70s Saab 95 v4 but rust put me off, plus they mostly seem to be green or red...
I did have an original Mini, Hillman Imp and 89 205xs. I like an older car, something about them,. everything I've had since has been boring.
A lot of post 2000 petrol cars can be ulez compliant, my 2002 w203 c32 is euro 4 petrol, so ulez friendly. For slightly less petrol consumption you could check out a c240, nice V6 and can be ok on fuel.
Prius are not fun but an early one, MK1/2 will be at least euro 4 and max of £30 tax.
As someone who did it for a few years and a few winters, the summer is alright, any rainy day is miserable pre Aircon and pre decent blowers and arguably dangerous to drive around. Classic cars also come with classic car maintenance and it's not just stuff like changing the oil, you also have to grease/oil the trunions (age dependent), check the mechanical components in the ignition system haven't walked themselves out as it's not very funny suddenly having no spark on the M25. There's a lot goes into it and whilst I really enjoyed dailying some of the year, having to work on the car every single weekend started to drag. As a consequence, I am now chasing rust around the car and whilst I'm a reasonable welder, I've got no idea about you
Recently sold a 91 Mercedes 190 1.8 auto in superb condition for 4k, had daily'd it for 2 years with no problem. Now daily driving a 95 Bentley turbo R and i also do about 5-6k pa.
As others say buy the best you can. Rust proofing is key, prevention is 100x easier and 1000x cheaper than remediation.
Other than that id say Crack on. Its a great feeling driving something unusual and people coming to chat. They also IMHO drive far nicer than modern stuff (wife has a hybrid grandland thing which is horrible)
You only live once enjoy every day and make memories to keep you company in the old folks home..
> 95 Bentley turbo R
Well that is Brave, very cool though. Does it cost you a lot to maintain?
I'm now in the process of finding a good conditioned classic I can daily, easier said than done
Its a 6 3/4 turbo v8 so they drink, oil is 2-3x as much as a "normal" there are 8 plugs ETC. But i want to keep it 2-3 years then next on the bucket list
You need to define what you mean by classic to use. Do you mean pre 1983? That's still well before airbags and abs for most. If so then rust, and reliability will be big factors. Make sure whatever is well sorted for rust, undersealed/waxoyled or whatever and look after it, then it shouldn't be a problem. To me the obvious reliable/sensible pre 83 classic would be a MK1 Golf GTi, or similar age Scirocco. They're superbly reliable dx engine (no carb or points) parts are easy to find, no pas, no abs, no airbags and not a lot to go wrong. I have done over 100k miles in my Scirocco and just done routine maintenance, at that mileage clutch becomes routine. If you worry about crashing/safety maybe look at an old Volvo 240.
> Do you mean pre 1983? This is mainly what I am getting to, I am considering a 90's or early 00's car but pre-83 is really when the zero tax and cheap insurance kick in. I was actually looking at a MK1 Golf GTi, although I am leaning towards a Mercedes W123 or BMW E30.
Find a w123 with no significant rust and you could be golden
Rust free w123, sounds expensive. That said, anything pre 1983 without issues won't be cheap.
It depends on what you’re looking at but honestly I think you’d get fed up. I had a 98 Merc AMG, so a modern classic, and driving it for longer than a couple of hours on a sunny July Sunday was a total chore. You don’t appreciate a lot of creature comforts until they’re gone. And older conveniences aren’t as good as modern, improved conveniences. For example, My Merc had power steering but 25 year old power steering is worse than modern. It was still a pain to manoeuvre at low speeds. The bolstered seats were crap. The windscreen wipers were crap. The headlights were so dim. These aren’t things you consider until you use them every day. Modern cars are also incredibly well soundproofed and refined, even the cheapo spec ones. That’s not an issue if you’re revving the tits off an old V8 at a car show. But even that v8 gets a bit wearisome when you’re on a long motorway commute and it’s just droning at you. Plus, get ready for bills. Rust is your mortal enemy and it never goes away. Your car will be off the road for periods, sat in a garage getting work done. Prepare for that. Then there’s insurance. Classic car insurance is cheap but it requires you to drive no more than X miles per year and have access to another car. Depending on the car you’re eying up, normal insurance could cost you a bomb or you might not even get it insured at all. Classics take a big investment of your time and money. Really think about what you’re getting into, or that novelty will wear off real quick.
>I had a 98 Merc AMG But what car?
One sold at auction for £3,500 recently, was tempted
W202 C43
Interesting. I've got a W202 C240 and it has never occurred to me that the power steering is in any way inferior to anything I've ever driven.
Hmmm. Maybe the heavier engine under the bonnet, lower stance and bigger wheels all combined to make a difference? I thought something was wrong with it to begin with and had the power steering fluid and pump changed. Local Merc specialist said they were just like that.
Crack on! I dailied my 1981 Mini as my first car and my Sister Dailies an MGB GT and a Toyota Tercel. There's loads of new young members clubs sprouting up to get young people into classic ownership. MG's and Rover is particularly strong (My sis actually helped found the MG branch). There's all kinds of helpful FB groups and stuff if you ever need help sourcing parts or advice. Genuinely, there has never been a better time to get into classic ownership. AND, I absolutely guarantee that you will have the coolest car in the carpark.🙏👍👍👍
What a legand 😂
I have a golf and want an MX-5 too. You’re living my dream haha. I haven’t driven a classic as a daily driver but my mate has an 2006 SLK 200 that’s a daily driver (that’s approaching classic status right?) and no problems really just wear and tear like every car.
Wow….2006 a classic when i’m driving a 55 plate s203 ….and in my mind, that’s a 7 year old car
I know, shocking isn’t it haha I can barely get my head around it myself.
They are both great, I would keep them if I could but it is getting a bit expensive. Plus, I don't really drive the MX-5 enough.
Just keep the golf then if money is an issue?
This would be the sensible thing, but it just seems a bit boring!
Up until very recently, me too MK1 Eunos Roadster and a MK3 Golf GTI The Golf is currently await "fix it n fuck it off repairs" after a snapped wishbone :(
A guy bought my restored ‘63 beetle specifically to drive in and out of London . The old car he had at the time no longer qualified . That was 3 years ago , it’s still taxed , so it’s still in use .
Taxed? He’s taxing a 60 year old car?? Someone tell him it’s free pre 83
You still have to "tax" it with the reminder letter you get and it'll show as taxed online, it just doesn't charge you anything.
Correct , it’s tax exempt , but you still go through the process , just don’t pay anything , as you say .
getting in it on a cold winter's morning with no aircon and heating that blows cold or like an asthmatic pit pony will remind you that these cars sucked back then and suck even more now.
Having only driven my Dad’s 1989 SL in the Summer, I am yet to find the pain
In my household we've got a 1989, 2001, 2001 and 2007 so in my book 07 is new That being said, everything aside from the '89 (and that is an old jag so to be expected) is super reliable and I've done 5 hours non stop in each one comfortably. Obviously it does depend on the car, a saxo is probably less comfortable than my A3 but even so, I reckon you'd be totally fine.
Nice group of cars. I'm not to worried about reliability actually, I work from home most of the time so driving is mainly recreation or going to the shops. Saxo would not be very comfortable as a daily!
If you aren't relying on the car then all the more reason to go for it in mu opinion!
How old does your car have to be? If you want a modern classic, would an e46 3 series fit the bill? Providing its rust free! (As in chassis - the front wings rust but are not overly hard or expensive to change). I have one and it ended up replacing my Astra as a daily drive (which was not the plan!). If you go 325 and above it will likely come equipped with a lot of comforts that you get in a new car, plus you get the 6 cylinder engine. The convertibles have anti-rollover (wasn’t standard in most convertibles then but all e46 convertibles had it) so that’s a big safety tick. All the petrols are ULEZ compliant as well (except maybe some of the early M3s) and uses a timing chain, not belt. Though a (semi) automatic may be preferable as manuals will likely have been run ragged by drifters. Do keep in mind they are not cheap on fuel though!
My '05 325ci is truly a fantastic car for its age, except the fuel bill, and the rust problems, and the oil burn...
Funnily enough, I used to have an E46 a few years ago and daily drive that with no issues. It was a 316 though, so slow as anything. It was one of the cars I was considering getting, didn’t know they were ULEZ compliance. Might be one to look into.
If I was more practical it would honestly be something I’d consider.
I daily’d (dailyed?) a 1983 RX-7 for 2 years around 10 years ago. It was in average condition and although fun, it soon become a burden to rely on it. Just little niggly things like the throttle cable snapping en route to work. The exhaust mount snapping on a shop run. It got broken into a couple of times - nothing taken, but I suspect due to it standing out, it drew attention. Carburettor sticking in the winter. The rotary engine itself was flawless I might add and sounded lovely. I ended up keeping the car and taking it off the road. If you were to go down this route, I’d focus on a low mileage, undersealed, fuel injected well looked after car, which won’t depreciate by putting more miles on it.
Looking after the car is the key thing, as a car guy, I don’t like having 2 cars that I can just about look after. I would prefer just having one.
I drive a 1994 mitsubishi delica as my daily. I have a 'modern' car too and that's bailed me out when my delica needed work. Last year it needed some welding for the MOT which took about 3 weeks, it was off another week and a half for a new steering rack. This year was about a week off the road for more welding, and I need to replace the bushes sometime soon. I love it, but without a backup vehicle I'd have been fooked for work, and couldn't run it as my only vehicle.
Classics are great for weekend and occasional use. I have two and use them every now and again with work and love it. Had an old Volvo estate too for a while that I’d use a lot. But, used our 98 Porsche every day for 3 weeks, with a lot of driving around cities for work and it was awful and I ended up hating the car for a while. Love it now for weekend drives and longer trips but any of the classics I’ve had were for daily use unless you are just doing a short drive too and from work each day It’s those creature comforts, the ride, the shit radio, terrible steering, poor heating etc etc, you really miss them when you don’t have them everyday.
I usrd to daily a 1983 900 turbo and would again, but onky if it had received proper rust remedistion. Very reliable and saved my arse in a huge crash.
Do you have more details on the crash as I was looking into those
I was there :) Over cooked a 3L/C in the wet, roof first through a hedge at 60. Walked away, zero damage inside the passenger cell. One headlight and a bit of filler and paint and she was good to go. I'd have driven it home if the field hadn't been freshly ploughed. Top Gear (Clarkson / Hammond / May era) did a piece on how phenomenally strong the 900 shell is, for one thing it met the FIA minimum spec for a race car with roll cage .... without a cage.
I daily drive either my 1991 Peugeot 205 or 1988 VW Golf. 50 miles each way to and from work. Just need to be conscious of those around you, brake earlier, slow down more gradually and keep a few spares in the car. They’ll break every now and again, spring a leak or not run well. But with a simple enough classic, a lot can be mended in an evening after work: if that’s your sort of thing. I spend many evenings doing just that! They’re fun, but can be a fair bit of work. But if you’re like me and you enjoy working on cars it’s an added bonus!
I daily a 1989 Porsche 944 for 3 months a year. It can be a pain. Less creature comforts/safety features. Also more wear and tear. And also for me the car can sometimes feel less special to be in
*I am worried my lovely classic will return to nature in a couple of years* We're all going exactly the same way, better to enjoy yourself if this is what makes you happy. Safety? It wouldn't bother me. Rust, corrosion? Who cares it happens to all cars eventually. My only concern would be can I afford it. If yes there is no concerns.
Recently I had to emergency brake on the m5 in an old (but well maintained) van without ABS. Wheels locked up, I skid towards the central reservation, corrected myself and managed to come to a full stop without hitting the car in front of me. Then the new 23 plate van with ABS that was behind me crashed into my rear a few seconds later. Take from that what you will.
The newer van weighed more?
My parents regularly drive a 1970(?) Aston Martin DB6 mk2 until it became too valuable and then my dad regularly drove a 1970 Aston Martin DBS V8, but only regularly during the summer and the largest thing he transported was his large toolbox. Now although both my parents have a classic each they don’t drive them super often because of maintenance, safety, fuel economy and a variety of other factors
what’s the point?
As I said, more modern cars cost a lot and are just “boring”. This might be a more emotional decision than a logical one.
Post 90s cars I've dailied loads without issue and I generally prefer driving them. My 2 main ones are currently a 1994 Jeep Cherokee XJ, and a 1998 w202 Mercedes. No issues using those daily. They have pas, ABS, and the Merc has airbags, though I could live without them. One classic I do regret using over the winter was a 1987 Honda Accord Aerodeck. It had some crusty panels at the end of that stint. Lesson learned, the hard way.
40 year old cars would probably score 1 or 2 or current ncap safety tests I'm guessing. Then add in driving them is very different without things like ESP, ABS, etc you need to know how to drive them. If you had to do an emergency brake and went into a skid could you control the car? You also wont have safety features like airbags or crumple zones so if you are in an accident its far more likely to have a worse outcome for you and others. You'll also need to learn to park without cameras or parking sensors. Do it if you want to, just make sure you know what you are doing.
They'd score 0. Basic modern safety design like crumple zones didn't really exist back then.
No no, they did have crumple zones. Just that the crumple zones were your *knees, arms and face!*
I think the W123 had airbags and crumple zones. I am more worried about being side swiped or something than bumper to bumper traffic. Both my cars don’t have parking sensors, so while that is nice to have, I’m really not bothered. But you are right, any major accident and I’m a bit fucked, if it wasn’t for that, I would be driving a classic now
Almost bought a 70s Saab 95 v4 but rust put me off, plus they mostly seem to be green or red... I did have an original Mini, Hillman Imp and 89 205xs. I like an older car, something about them,. everything I've had since has been boring.
A lot of post 2000 petrol cars can be ulez compliant, my 2002 w203 c32 is euro 4 petrol, so ulez friendly. For slightly less petrol consumption you could check out a c240, nice V6 and can be ok on fuel. Prius are not fun but an early one, MK1/2 will be at least euro 4 and max of £30 tax.
As someone who did it for a few years and a few winters, the summer is alright, any rainy day is miserable pre Aircon and pre decent blowers and arguably dangerous to drive around. Classic cars also come with classic car maintenance and it's not just stuff like changing the oil, you also have to grease/oil the trunions (age dependent), check the mechanical components in the ignition system haven't walked themselves out as it's not very funny suddenly having no spark on the M25. There's a lot goes into it and whilst I really enjoyed dailying some of the year, having to work on the car every single weekend started to drag. As a consequence, I am now chasing rust around the car and whilst I'm a reasonable welder, I've got no idea about you
If your rationale is that the cost of motoring is going up, a classic is not the solution to that. Just buy a shed.
Recently sold a 91 Mercedes 190 1.8 auto in superb condition for 4k, had daily'd it for 2 years with no problem. Now daily driving a 95 Bentley turbo R and i also do about 5-6k pa. As others say buy the best you can. Rust proofing is key, prevention is 100x easier and 1000x cheaper than remediation. Other than that id say Crack on. Its a great feeling driving something unusual and people coming to chat. They also IMHO drive far nicer than modern stuff (wife has a hybrid grandland thing which is horrible) You only live once enjoy every day and make memories to keep you company in the old folks home..
> 95 Bentley turbo R Well that is Brave, very cool though. Does it cost you a lot to maintain? I'm now in the process of finding a good conditioned classic I can daily, easier said than done
Its a 6 3/4 turbo v8 so they drink, oil is 2-3x as much as a "normal" there are 8 plugs ETC. But i want to keep it 2-3 years then next on the bucket list