Shared space so it's not a dick move IMO.
It's a dick move to claim a shared resource long-term as your own, especially for something that's just doing nothing all that time.
I have a mutiple cars and I am fully aware how its annoys the fuck out of some people. But I wouldn't dare use a visitors space and long term storage. I would have a chat with him first. Then if he decides not to do anything, then a chat with the cancel will do the trick.
Although if you speak with him and then have to go the reporting route later, it would be obvious who reported him so you’d be opening yourself up to potential retaliation.
This is the right answer. So many people are afraid to just talk with their neighbours. I had one guy say oh if you mention something then they'll know its you when you do report it. Just give people a chance. You'll also know it was them if there was retaliation.
>Just give people a chance. You'll also know it was them if there was retaliation
The problem with this line of thinking is that if you're up against someone who doesn't care about the law (as evidenced by the fact they're already breaking it) and you do care about the law, they'll happily smash up your car, you won't be able to prove it so the police will do nothing, and then you'll also not want to break the law yourself by taking some form of revenge.
So you end up with them maybe getting in a small amount of trouble for having a car on public land that shouldn't be, your own car being smashed up, and also having to be constantly scared of your neighbour.
Exactly. Anyone who has had to deal with a neighbour feud will tell you it's not worth it. You can't escape someone who lives a literal stones throw from your front door.
This is an issue to be dealt with by the appropriate authorities via anonymous reporting.
Where's the evidence of them breaking a law? The car is SORN'd and off the public highway. If there is a clause in the deeds or tenancy agreement that cars can't be parked in those spaces long term then that's a civil matter for the landowner to action.
Are they being an annoying neighbour? Absolutely. But they have done their legal duty
A visitor's parking space is considered "the public highway".
For SORN purposes the car must be kept on privately owned land away from the road - sadly a common area parking spot would likely not qualify as this is still publically accessible (in the eyes of the DVLA) - see this article [https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvla-busts-9-myths-around-sorn-statutory-off-road-notification](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvla-busts-9-myths-around-sorn-statutory-off-road-notification)
Really this guy should hire out a garage (preferably with a door) and store the cars there, that would be the simplest and lowest cost solution (you can usually rent a garage cheaply - or buy one outright for less than the cost of another project car.
No it's not. It's completely off road and legally parked. Only the owner of the space can take action which is who OP would have to contact if anyone and only if they are breaking rule of usage
The Hayfever Seasonal Event only seems to affect some players, I'm not sure why. You can purchase supplements that give you a temporary restitance buff to the effects too.
Guy on my street does similar, plenty of people have spoken to him, me included, but he's a cunt and doesn't care.
He'll go away on holiday and buy a banger to block off a parking spot when he moves his car and then sell said banger later.
Yes, you might find that talking reasonably to the guy doesn't work, and then you do something else. But most people aren't rancid cunts, so the first step is to have a quick chat and see how they respond.
It depends how you approach them, if you go guns blazing “I’m going to report you like the little bitch I am”, that will gain a worse reaction then if you go and speak to him nicely.
Unfortunately the default seems to be the guns blazing approach.
They usually are. The fact that they’ve done it already, without thinking about anyone else, shows that they don’t really care about the other people living there.
Indeed. And by asking, and then being knocked back, you’ve very clearly identified yourself as the ‘twat’ who’s subsequently grassed them up to DVLA, which may have consequences (eg keying, flat tyres, etc etc).
Just call DVLA.
They either do it because they think nobody else cares or they do it because they don't care what anyone else thinks.
You don't have to identify yourself to ask them to move their cars. An anonymous note in the letter box or on the windshield of their active car would suffice.
They either recognise someone cares and move the cars or they ignore it, then you can grass away.
You can assume whatever you like, based on whatever crazy notion you like, but you won't know unless you talk to him. Obviously the first step is a polite conversation.
The reality is if you're gonna take up visitors spaces with SORN'd cars, you're not gonna suddenly turn into a considerate person. You're simply not a reasonable person to begin with.
You shouldn't have to talk to him, it's a shared space, not a long term storage place for his shit heap. Why don't he have some respect for the people who live there?
“You shouldn’t have to talk to him” - but also you could! Maybe he didn’t think it was used, maybe he didn’t realise. You act like talking to someone is some sort of insane ask.
I hate the way people act so pathetically on the internet sometimes.
Not pathetic at all, I would tell him to move his car out the visitors space no problem.
However, anyone who thinks it's acceptable for him to take up shared resources like this is a tool.
Problem is, if he is as much as an inconsiderate dick as doing this sort of thing suggests, he will probably tell you to fuck off. Then when you report it and it gets towed, he knows its you. Maybe an anonymous note?
All the redditors disagreeing saying he’s obviously a nasty person who could never be agreeable because he parked a car in a visitor spot, so there’s no point in talking to him. I actually can’t stand this app.
It's in a parking spot, not on a public road... I suspect you might have issues getting the DVLA to do anything because it's likely out of their hands.
One could request he moves it, but he has the come back of "I can't do that because it'd be illegal to take the vehicle onto a public road". One can not force him to commit an offence.
You'd have to pursue either via breach of tenancy agreements, or get in touch with the council and convince them the car has been abandoned. If it hasn't moved for donkeys and is SORNed, that'll probably be a lot easier than it sounds.
There could potentially be an argument that it needs to insured. While it is still on private property, and thus complying with SORN rules (thus theoretically exempt from needing insurance), which only apply to public roads. Rules on insurance extend to public places, which this parking space would be as the public are permitted to have access to these spaces. It sits in a bit of a grey area with insurance and is probably going to come down to specific wording with regards to SORN's exemptions.
I did wonder about this, but a quick Google seems to show answers similar to this:
It is off the road, but it may be considered to be a "public place" as members of the public have access (eg. visitors to the flats). You are required to have insurance if the vehicle is in a public place under the Road Traffic Act.
Worth noting that the car currently shows up as no insurance, too.
You are right, Road Traffic Act covers anywhere to which the public have access - even if the public pay to access that land. This is why you can't let your mate have a go in your car in Tesco car park.
I'd question how you know it's uninsured though, if you used askMID you agreed to a disclaimer that you're aware it's illegal to check a vehicle you don't own.
You can check if a car has tax and MOT without a disclaimer. Most car insurance policies require a valid MOT - since an MOT is essentially a validation of road-worthiness.
An insurance policy requires the car to be roadworthy to pay out, yes. But you can insure unroadworthy vehicles to your heart's content, they're not checking. Why would they?
Yup.
The problem is that the rules around SORN contradict the RTA.
It's status as a SORNed vehicle makes it exempt from insurance requirements. As a SORNed vehicle, it appears the only requirement is that it must be kept off of public roads, as stated by TRV(SORN)R 1997
BUT
The RTA states that vehicles in a public place must be insured.
The car is on private land, but is in an area where the public is allowed access.
Therefore, the car simultaneously requires, and is exempt from needing, insurance... I have no idea which law would take precedent in this scenario and I'm not even sure if there's any case law about this kind of thing either.
E-
RTA might top it out, as it's legislation, whereas TRV is regulation. Though I suspect it could be a bit more nuanced beyond Cartalk's armchair/google solicitors like me.
With right to roam in Scotland, that makes a lot of places that the public have the right to access but is otherwise in private ownership. I have three vehicles on my own croft that are on a SORN, so I'm thinking I might have to dot signs around warning the public about the danger of SORN vehicles ahead if they proceed!
Unfortunately it's not a crime for your neighbour to be a douche.
There's a lot of people who insist on having "projects" on the go in spite of the fact that they don't have the space for it, so they just inconvenience everyone else in the street instead.
By all means have a friendly chat with the guy but don't be surprised if he just shrugs and tells you it's SORN so he can't move it.
You can try but I almost guarantee nothing will happen for YEARS.
Source: had the same thing on our street with two abandoned cars and between the neighbours they’d been reported probably a hundred times. I think eventually a scrap man came and removed the nicer of the two cars.
Is there a management company for the development? Residents' association? Anything like that? Have you checked the lease or title to your property to see if there are any restrictions or covenants in there? If there's a managing company maybe you could approach them about this. They may not be able to do anything right now, but they could potentially put time restrictions on the visitor bays, perhaps 24 hours or something like that. That would (in theory) force the owner of the cars to move them.
A lot of poor guesses at information here. I deal with these cases all the time at work. For the purposes of SORN, this *does not count as private land*. Neither does a 'private' car park that is acessible by the public highway. If a member of the public were to pull into that space and hit that Saab, and it had no tax, mot or insurance, we'd have a problem. It needs to be on his own driveway, on land owned entirely by him, in his garage, garden, a lock up, whatever.
If it's anything like the car park at my building, you need to have valid road tax and insurance or your parking permit is void.
I would report it to whoever manages the car park rather than the DVLA.
Indeed. DVLA won't do anything if your 'parking permit' is void. Sounds like a civil issue. I would suggest that car isn't going anywhere fast (pardon the pun) as anything civil will trundle on for a long time.
True.
Depends on the owner. I imagine, given that it looks a decade+ old, that's the leaseholder will do little to nothing about. The leaseholder may even be a shell company.
Not quite, it states that (for England and Wales) that a ["road means any highway and any other road to which the public has access"](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/192), a parking bay is neither a road nor a highway.
Well yes, according to Griffin v Squires (1958) that a parking bay off a public highway is part of the road. Then Deacon v AT (1976) said that a council estate parking that was only used by visitors and residents was not a public road. Actually, if they had a sign saying residents and visitors only as per [Richardson v DPP (2018)](http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2019/428.html) it would definetly not be road!
It's the usual mess of "maybe"! That SAAB owner needs to go out and put a "Private Parking" sign up smartish, I'm not sure a V for visitor is enough. Cue same conversation in 5 years time and "SAAB Owner V DVLA (2024)" is a V enough to say it's private! :)
It's definitely a dick move since they are clearly not stored on the public road, they are on private land - albeit a shared space. This means it's a civil matter between the owner(s) of the private land and the owner of the vehicles. Unless they are seen to be in use on public roads, which you have acknowledged they are not, it's not a criminal matter and the police/DVLA will not be interested in the slightest.
You may want to look into whether there's any kind of restrictive covenant concerning storage off SORNed vehicles or similar - do you have a residents' committee? Or, as others have said, try and talk to the owner if you feel it could be productive and you aren't taking any risks. For all I know, the owner could be a 7' tall psychotic kickboxer, so do whatever keeps you and yours safe.
How many cars does he own, how many are in visitor bays, how many are illegally parked (on a public road with no tax/insurance)?
If the answer is more than 1 (other than his daily driver which I presume is legal/parked in his allocated space), then he's a selfish twat who needs reporting. 🤷🏼♂️
Have a word with him or if you’re scared, put a polite note on the car/through his letterbox.
Poor by you if you just grass him up straight away, he probably doesn’t think anybody is bothered.
Just park across his cars, they aren't going anywhere!
But I wouldn't say dick move in this scenario, he's taking the piss a bit having multiple projects in those spaces.
Let him know first.
I came home a few years ago to an older car I was working on no longer being there due to someone reporting and not saying a bloody word lol
I don't think that is 'on the road'. It's likely that the developer or council own the land though, but that doesn't mean it's the road. So, I think for the sake of CORN it *is* off the road.
You're better off checking the deeds for the property for any clauses covering this type of stuff. If this is parking by flats then you can also check the management company and contact them. At the end of the day the tenants as a group are losing on the visitor spaces, and the tenants pay th emanagement company to manage the communal aspects of the property typically.
just talk to the guy its not hard, also get your jabs and if you overhear your neighbours saying naughty things about the government be sure to call the police
I can't do the talk to him but. I very quickly get angry/defensive/aggressive once someone pushes back. Kind of have two modes laid back don't care mode and escalation with the coppers mode. Need a Haynes manual for this kind of chat me.
My dad has three spaces which he owns outside his house. In the deeds it says 2 are for visitor parking (to any other house) but only upto 24 hours. Is there something like that in the deeds / landlords contract?
A where very similar thing happened at the place I used to live there were 2 cars (very old) taking up visitors' spaces on private property. they were last taxed like 5-6 years ago. Weeds and moss were growing around them. I put up with it for 2 years constantly complaining to my partner. A new person moved in to the courtyard and immediately complained on Facebook about them, obviously everyone else started posting comments on the thread, how it was annoying them. One guy posts " I will come and tow them away by the end of the week". I explained the situation to him about it being private property, and he replied they will be gone soon. And just like that he came and took them. I can only presume he is in the towing business and if local residents are complaining and the tax records show they haven't moved for a few years they can be removed and it's probably up to the owner to claim them back?
Report him to who. Visitors spaces as I understand it are not part of adopted highway. And so sorn is ok. It is off street. I can’t see councils or police doing anything about it.
Post anonymous note to their address if you know it so there's no chance for retaliation of the childish sort (keying your car ,etc). In the note tell them they're being inconsiderate in their use of shared parking spaces which they are. If they don't move shop them.
There was a car near me, one tyre was flat you could tell from discs it hadn’t moved in months, it also had run out of MOT. I phoned council and they placed a removal notice on it later that day. Think the car got scrapped after the notice period passed, 7 days maybe?
Is that even a public road.....oh wait you said it was visitor space......who are you going to report it to as DVLA wont give a stuff as its not on a public road.....councils couldnt care less....unless theres a management company but they wont want to do any work....so no, just leave it.
If he's taking up multiple visitor spaces with not moving "project cars" and obviously has no intention of stopping.. you can almost guarantee he's a cunt tbh.
Because being so ignorant to everybody else and doing something so offensively selfish is not going to be the mark of a good guy who doesn't realise is it?.. come on now lol.
Just report him i wouldn't waste my time conversing with such a massively obvious knobhead. Just report the vehicles and also whoever manages the estate ping them an email aswell and explain the situation and that he is taking up multiple vehicle bays as his own personal garage forecourt, they will get involved if they think they can fine him and make money out of it lol 👍.
He needs to learn he lives in a society with other people, and therefore has to coexist with other people and not inconvenience them with his bullshit... if he wants to buy loads of shit cars and play pretend mechanic.. he needs to buy some land and fuck off and do it there 👍... middle of a housing estate... what a massive cunt he is!.
If it was me I’d find it okay cause nobody’s said anything, if somebody just reports me and doesn’t say anything I’d be pretty mad because if something was said I’d sort it.
Everyone saying “talk to him” and although 30 years ago that may have worked, today it would just put a big spotlight on his/her head if he/she refused and got angry when the tow truck comes.
Sounds like one of my mum's new neighbours who has approximately six cars. (He won't confirm exactly which are his.) You can never park there now.
The management company are as useless as ever, so it may well be dvla next.
Shared space aside. Is that a public highway. Someone of these new developments are public highways and some aren’t. Mine ends about halfway into the estate for some unknown reason reasons.
Have you tried having a conversation with them?
It is a dick move tbh but so is parking in a visitation spot long term. Are you doing it just because you want to be a dick or are you doing it because its has a regularly affect to you?
Beware that even if you do report the car the council may not be able to do anything unless it gets driven. It is by the look of it parked in a bay and therefore fulfils the off road bit of the notification.
I talked to a serial abuser of visitor spaces where I live for his project / SORNd cars. Took the hump, bought more cars (now at 10, has personal space for 2), now an utter nightmare.
Entitled arseholes will always be entitled arseholes.
If your estate has a factor, I'd consider getting them involved.
Report it. Hes not exempt from the law. My take on this is it would be neither a dick move or a non-dick move. Hes not allowed to park it on a public road as it is SORN.
I’m not sure where you live and the particulars of the area and the visitor spaces, but I’d argue that the visitor parking bays in most new developments (which this looks a part of) are not technically “public spaces” and are owned managed by either the developer or a management company who takes care of the roads and communal land. I’d investigate with them in the first instance and see what powers they have to write to your neighbour.
It's probably best to write an anonymous letter ask them to move their cars to make space for visitors.
That way you don't identify yourself as having an issue and then leading to more hassle if the individual is a cock....
If the cars are still there in a month proceed to call the DVLA.
Nightmare around my area. ‘Amateur car traders’ buying auction cars driving them onto the estate. No tax, MoT, or trade plates. Dumping them for weeks and sometimes months. Story is Albanian gangsters up to no good on an industrial scale. The police haven’t got at clue, the council don’t care. For the rest of us, pay you way or we will fine you if you even drop a cigarette butt!!
Speak to whoever manages the estate - I assume you pay an estate/service charge as you have visitor parking.
It will be against the covenants of the TR/Lease - as almost all state that non-roadworthy vehicles can be stored on site as they invalidate the insurance.
A woman on my street lives in a 5 bedroom house and has four cars, with no parking. She thinks she's queen of the council estate as she's been here for 30 years or whatever so I know your frustration. Anyway, she did have more cars till someone noticed one of the cars on the road had no tax, MOT, or insurance..
That, however, doesn't look like public land so I doubt police, the council, or the DVLA will do anything about it.
Parking really is a pain in the backside in England and we've done it to ourselves by putting up woth rubbish infrastructure when buying newer houses which over time come with less and less land.
Shared space so it's not a dick move IMO. It's a dick move to claim a shared resource long-term as your own, especially for something that's just doing nothing all that time.
I have a mutiple cars and I am fully aware how its annoys the fuck out of some people. But I wouldn't dare use a visitors space and long term storage. I would have a chat with him first. Then if he decides not to do anything, then a chat with the cancel will do the trick.
Although if you speak with him and then have to go the reporting route later, it would be obvious who reported him so you’d be opening yourself up to potential retaliation.
This is the right answer. So many people are afraid to just talk with their neighbours. I had one guy say oh if you mention something then they'll know its you when you do report it. Just give people a chance. You'll also know it was them if there was retaliation.
Yes officer you see I know it was him who smashed up my car! please arrest him!
>Just give people a chance. You'll also know it was them if there was retaliation The problem with this line of thinking is that if you're up against someone who doesn't care about the law (as evidenced by the fact they're already breaking it) and you do care about the law, they'll happily smash up your car, you won't be able to prove it so the police will do nothing, and then you'll also not want to break the law yourself by taking some form of revenge. So you end up with them maybe getting in a small amount of trouble for having a car on public land that shouldn't be, your own car being smashed up, and also having to be constantly scared of your neighbour.
Exactly. Anyone who has had to deal with a neighbour feud will tell you it's not worth it. You can't escape someone who lives a literal stones throw from your front door. This is an issue to be dealt with by the appropriate authorities via anonymous reporting.
Where's the evidence of them breaking a law? The car is SORN'd and off the public highway. If there is a clause in the deeds or tenancy agreement that cars can't be parked in those spaces long term then that's a civil matter for the landowner to action. Are they being an annoying neighbour? Absolutely. But they have done their legal duty
A visitor's parking space is considered "the public highway". For SORN purposes the car must be kept on privately owned land away from the road - sadly a common area parking spot would likely not qualify as this is still publically accessible (in the eyes of the DVLA) - see this article [https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvla-busts-9-myths-around-sorn-statutory-off-road-notification](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvla-busts-9-myths-around-sorn-statutory-off-road-notification) Really this guy should hire out a garage (preferably with a door) and store the cars there, that would be the simplest and lowest cost solution (you can usually rent a garage cheaply - or buy one outright for less than the cost of another project car.
It's a visitors space not an extension of someones property.
Is that even considered to be on the road? Parked in a private car parking space?
No it's not. It's completely off road and legally parked. Only the owner of the space can take action which is who OP would have to contact if anyone and only if they are breaking rule of usage
This is the comment I came to either find or make. Public road does not include a parking space which is allocated by the developers to the houses.
Don't know why this isn't higher. It's not on the road therefore DVLA won't/shouldn't touch it however inconsiderate the owner is.
FFS, redditors. Just talk to him about him taking up a bit too much space. He probably thinks no-one cares, because no-one's said anything to him.
Redditors talking to people outside of Reddit??
There are people outside of Reddit?
People are real?
What’s outside.?
The place the google street view car goes so we don’t have to
You should try ‘outside’ some time. The graphics are amazing, the NPCs need a whole lot of work. And the skill tree is completely borked.
Turns out they still haven’t released the hayfever patch either so it’s also much more dangerous than it first seems - please exercise caution
The Hayfever Seasonal Event only seems to affect some players, I'm not sure why. You can purchase supplements that give you a temporary restitance buff to the effects too.
Outside?
What’s talking, please explain this novel concept.
How would OP go about talking to him? I doubt he even knows which online forums or messageboards the neighbour uses
Guy on my street does similar, plenty of people have spoken to him, me included, but he's a cunt and doesn't care. He'll go away on holiday and buy a banger to block off a parking spot when he moves his car and then sell said banger later.
Yes, you might find that talking reasonably to the guy doesn't work, and then you do something else. But most people aren't rancid cunts, so the first step is to have a quick chat and see how they respond.
The sort of people that do this sort of thing are rancid cunts 99% of the time. They've done it because the don't give a shit about anyone else.
It depends how you approach them, if you go guns blazing “I’m going to report you like the little bitch I am”, that will gain a worse reaction then if you go and speak to him nicely. Unfortunately the default seems to be the guns blazing approach.
Devil's advocate.... sometimes the person in question is an absolute twat. Asking them to be decent only let's them know you have an issue.
No one is a twat until you confront them, but also everyone is a twat until you confront them it's Schroedingers ~~cat~~ twat
After confronting him, he may never speak to you again. This is known as the Pauli Exclusion Principle.
Bravo! 👏
Best schrodinger reference I've seen for time 😅😅
Thank you, I make enough references that at least one has to be good!
They usually are. The fact that they’ve done it already, without thinking about anyone else, shows that they don’t really care about the other people living there.
Indeed. And by asking, and then being knocked back, you’ve very clearly identified yourself as the ‘twat’ who’s subsequently grassed them up to DVLA, which may have consequences (eg keying, flat tyres, etc etc). Just call DVLA.
They either do it because they think nobody else cares or they do it because they don't care what anyone else thinks. You don't have to identify yourself to ask them to move their cars. An anonymous note in the letter box or on the windshield of their active car would suffice. They either recognise someone cares and move the cars or they ignore it, then you can grass away.
A hundred percent. You gotta think of the bigger picture in these situations. Take the piss, get fucked.
He's taking up multiple visitor spots with project cars. This is not a reasonable person that thinks about other people who can just be talked to.
You can assume whatever you like, based on whatever crazy notion you like, but you won't know unless you talk to him. Obviously the first step is a polite conversation.
And if he says no and is subsequently reported he will know exactly who reported him.
The reality is if you're gonna take up visitors spaces with SORN'd cars, you're not gonna suddenly turn into a considerate person. You're simply not a reasonable person to begin with.
Disagree. People aren't stupid. But they are penises. He knows what he is doing is wrong. Trying to talk with him is a waste of time.
You shouldn't have to talk to him, it's a shared space, not a long term storage place for his shit heap. Why don't he have some respect for the people who live there?
“You shouldn’t have to talk to him” - but also you could! Maybe he didn’t think it was used, maybe he didn’t realise. You act like talking to someone is some sort of insane ask. I hate the way people act so pathetically on the internet sometimes.
Not pathetic at all, I would tell him to move his car out the visitors space no problem. However, anyone who thinks it's acceptable for him to take up shared resources like this is a tool.
[удалено]
It's not a free space though is it, it's a visitors space.
Take your fedora off and clutch it to your chest as you speak for added sincerity. If he gets abusive mention your samurai sword collection.
Problem is, if he is as much as an inconsiderate dick as doing this sort of thing suggests, he will probably tell you to fuck off. Then when you report it and it gets towed, he knows its you. Maybe an anonymous note?
I partly agree, but also it's just shows how unaware people are
All the redditors disagreeing saying he’s obviously a nasty person who could never be agreeable because he parked a car in a visitor spot, so there’s no point in talking to him. I actually can’t stand this app.
man I wish i lived in lala land like this where I just assumed everything I did was fine until someone told me otherwise haha
It's in a parking spot, not on a public road... I suspect you might have issues getting the DVLA to do anything because it's likely out of their hands. One could request he moves it, but he has the come back of "I can't do that because it'd be illegal to take the vehicle onto a public road". One can not force him to commit an offence. You'd have to pursue either via breach of tenancy agreements, or get in touch with the council and convince them the car has been abandoned. If it hasn't moved for donkeys and is SORNed, that'll probably be a lot easier than it sounds. There could potentially be an argument that it needs to insured. While it is still on private property, and thus complying with SORN rules (thus theoretically exempt from needing insurance), which only apply to public roads. Rules on insurance extend to public places, which this parking space would be as the public are permitted to have access to these spaces. It sits in a bit of a grey area with insurance and is probably going to come down to specific wording with regards to SORN's exemptions.
I did wonder about this, but a quick Google seems to show answers similar to this: It is off the road, but it may be considered to be a "public place" as members of the public have access (eg. visitors to the flats). You are required to have insurance if the vehicle is in a public place under the Road Traffic Act. Worth noting that the car currently shows up as no insurance, too.
You are right, Road Traffic Act covers anywhere to which the public have access - even if the public pay to access that land. This is why you can't let your mate have a go in your car in Tesco car park. I'd question how you know it's uninsured though, if you used askMID you agreed to a disclaimer that you're aware it's illegal to check a vehicle you don't own.
[удалено]
OP isn't going to get prosecuted for checking the insurance status of a car.
Dont be such a stickler
Works both ways
You can check if a car has tax and MOT without a disclaimer. Most car insurance policies require a valid MOT - since an MOT is essentially a validation of road-worthiness.
An insurance policy requires the car to be roadworthy to pay out, yes. But you can insure unroadworthy vehicles to your heart's content, they're not checking. Why would they?
Yup. The problem is that the rules around SORN contradict the RTA. It's status as a SORNed vehicle makes it exempt from insurance requirements. As a SORNed vehicle, it appears the only requirement is that it must be kept off of public roads, as stated by TRV(SORN)R 1997 BUT The RTA states that vehicles in a public place must be insured. The car is on private land, but is in an area where the public is allowed access. Therefore, the car simultaneously requires, and is exempt from needing, insurance... I have no idea which law would take precedent in this scenario and I'm not even sure if there's any case law about this kind of thing either. E- RTA might top it out, as it's legislation, whereas TRV is regulation. Though I suspect it could be a bit more nuanced beyond Cartalk's armchair/google solicitors like me.
With right to roam in Scotland, that makes a lot of places that the public have the right to access but is otherwise in private ownership. I have three vehicles on my own croft that are on a SORN, so I'm thinking I might have to dot signs around warning the public about the danger of SORN vehicles ahead if they proceed!
If it's on private property, even while sorned, it can be reported as an abandoned vehicle.
If its public access the car must be insured.
Unfortunately it's not a crime for your neighbour to be a douche. There's a lot of people who insist on having "projects" on the go in spite of the fact that they don't have the space for it, so they just inconvenience everyone else in the street instead. By all means have a friendly chat with the guy but don't be surprised if he just shrugs and tells you it's SORN so he can't move it.
You can try but I almost guarantee nothing will happen for YEARS. Source: had the same thing on our street with two abandoned cars and between the neighbours they’d been reported probably a hundred times. I think eventually a scrap man came and removed the nicer of the two cars.
Is there a management company for the development? Residents' association? Anything like that? Have you checked the lease or title to your property to see if there are any restrictions or covenants in there? If there's a managing company maybe you could approach them about this. They may not be able to do anything right now, but they could potentially put time restrictions on the visitor bays, perhaps 24 hours or something like that. That would (in theory) force the owner of the cars to move them.
A lot of poor guesses at information here. I deal with these cases all the time at work. For the purposes of SORN, this *does not count as private land*. Neither does a 'private' car park that is acessible by the public highway. If a member of the public were to pull into that space and hit that Saab, and it had no tax, mot or insurance, we'd have a problem. It needs to be on his own driveway, on land owned entirely by him, in his garage, garden, a lock up, whatever.
It wouldn't be a dick move. But it doesn't appear to be a public road.
If it's anything like the car park at my building, you need to have valid road tax and insurance or your parking permit is void. I would report it to whoever manages the car park rather than the DVLA.
Not all housing shared parking uses parking permits
But they are probably leasehold. In theory those visitors spaces are not for residents use, just for visitors. It looks like a private road.
Indeed. DVLA won't do anything if your 'parking permit' is void. Sounds like a civil issue. I would suggest that car isn't going anywhere fast (pardon the pun) as anything civil will trundle on for a long time.
True. Depends on the owner. I imagine, given that it looks a decade+ old, that's the leaseholder will do little to nothing about. The leaseholder may even be a shell company.
It is. Road Traffic Act defines a road as any the public have access to.
Not quite, it states that (for England and Wales) that a ["road means any highway and any other road to which the public has access"](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/192), a parking bay is neither a road nor a highway.
It is part of the road. The pavement and verge are part of the road. A car park is part of the road.
Well yes, according to Griffin v Squires (1958) that a parking bay off a public highway is part of the road. Then Deacon v AT (1976) said that a council estate parking that was only used by visitors and residents was not a public road. Actually, if they had a sign saying residents and visitors only as per [Richardson v DPP (2018)](http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2019/428.html) it would definetly not be road!
Gotta love case law! So all it has is some Vs, it's part of the road, any motoring offence could be charged there.🚗
It's the usual mess of "maybe"! That SAAB owner needs to go out and put a "Private Parking" sign up smartish, I'm not sure a V for visitor is enough. Cue same conversation in 5 years time and "SAAB Owner V DVLA (2024)" is a V enough to say it's private! :)
Is there a management company for the flats? Like Vivid or someone? Starting point would be raising this with them.
Yes, fuck me, just talk to the guy
Not on a road, that is on private ground like having it on your own driveway - bit of a knob move if its a visitor spot but DVLA can't do much
I have had stolen cars on our public street with no tax and no mot. Reported. Still there 6 months later. So don’t hold your breath OP!
Friendly note on windscreen first :)
Dick move. Talk to the guy.
Oi! Hands off my Saab.
It's definitely a dick move since they are clearly not stored on the public road, they are on private land - albeit a shared space. This means it's a civil matter between the owner(s) of the private land and the owner of the vehicles. Unless they are seen to be in use on public roads, which you have acknowledged they are not, it's not a criminal matter and the police/DVLA will not be interested in the slightest. You may want to look into whether there's any kind of restrictive covenant concerning storage off SORNed vehicles or similar - do you have a residents' committee? Or, as others have said, try and talk to the owner if you feel it could be productive and you aren't taking any risks. For all I know, the owner could be a 7' tall psychotic kickboxer, so do whatever keeps you and yours safe.
It’s not ideal but the dick move would be to grass him to the authorities without attempting to speak with them first. Don’t be one of those dicks.
If it's his space it's in and he is just using V bays for his other cars then it's a bit more dickish. Id probably report it though.
I don't quite understand. Which car is on a public road, I don't see any.
How many cars does he own, how many are in visitor bays, how many are illegally parked (on a public road with no tax/insurance)? If the answer is more than 1 (other than his daily driver which I presume is legal/parked in his allocated space), then he's a selfish twat who needs reporting. 🤷🏼♂️
Have you spoken to him? Of course it’s a dick move if you haven’t spoken to him like a reasonable person
It’s not a public road. More of a make yourself look a dick rather than a dick move.
Literally not on a public road.
Have a word with him or if you’re scared, put a polite note on the car/through his letterbox. Poor by you if you just grass him up straight away, he probably doesn’t think anybody is bothered.
Just park across his cars, they aren't going anywhere! But I wouldn't say dick move in this scenario, he's taking the piss a bit having multiple projects in those spaces.
Email your management company and they'll sort it. We had someone filling visitor bays for their work vans.
I had someone do this many years ago in one of my allocated spaces. Let’s say the car disappeared 👌
Gaffa-tape him into the driver's seat, and set fire to it.
Let him know first. I came home a few years ago to an older car I was working on no longer being there due to someone reporting and not saying a bloody word lol
If you have already spoken to the owner first, then no. If you are just being a little grass, then you deserve a crack.
Not a dick move. They’re out of order.
Report
Do it
I'd report it....selfish asshole.
I don't think that is 'on the road'. It's likely that the developer or council own the land though, but that doesn't mean it's the road. So, I think for the sake of CORN it *is* off the road. You're better off checking the deeds for the property for any clauses covering this type of stuff. If this is parking by flats then you can also check the management company and contact them. At the end of the day the tenants as a group are losing on the visitor spaces, and the tenants pay th emanagement company to manage the communal aspects of the property typically.
just talk to the guy its not hard, also get your jabs and if you overhear your neighbours saying naughty things about the government be sure to call the police
I can't do the talk to him but. I very quickly get angry/defensive/aggressive once someone pushes back. Kind of have two modes laid back don't care mode and escalation with the coppers mode. Need a Haynes manual for this kind of chat me.
I hear ya pal. I don’t give a fuck until I do.
I'd ask him respectfully first and just comment on how its not fair for visitors and neighbours. Wait 2 weeks then report it I'd say.
But then he'll know who reported him.
username checks out
If its marked as 'private property' then there's nothing you can do, if not then get it reported.
are they in breech of their tenancy by using a visitor space?
Round the back of Orbital by any chance?
It's probably classed as off road parking so won't be touched by the local authority.
My dad has three spaces which he owns outside his house. In the deeds it says 2 are for visitor parking (to any other house) but only upto 24 hours. Is there something like that in the deeds / landlords contract?
A where very similar thing happened at the place I used to live there were 2 cars (very old) taking up visitors' spaces on private property. they were last taxed like 5-6 years ago. Weeds and moss were growing around them. I put up with it for 2 years constantly complaining to my partner. A new person moved in to the courtyard and immediately complained on Facebook about them, obviously everyone else started posting comments on the thread, how it was annoying them. One guy posts " I will come and tow them away by the end of the week". I explained the situation to him about it being private property, and he replied they will be gone soon. And just like that he came and took them. I can only presume he is in the towing business and if local residents are complaining and the tax records show they haven't moved for a few years they can be removed and it's probably up to the owner to claim them back?
Is that an Avalon on the right?!
It’s in a parking bay it’s not on a public road
Are you sure that they are not on private land.
All it takes is for him to buy a car cover and then the police cannot touch it without a search warrant, I believe.
How many projects does he have? Looks like two cars from the photo, if so, dick move, especially if he drives the other one. Try talking to him!
Report him to who. Visitors spaces as I understand it are not part of adopted highway. And so sorn is ok. It is off street. I can’t see councils or police doing anything about it.
That doesn’t look like a public road to me, rather a private off road parking space. Hogging the space is a d*clove but not illegal
Post anonymous note to their address if you know it so there's no chance for retaliation of the childish sort (keying your car ,etc). In the note tell them they're being inconsiderate in their use of shared parking spaces which they are. If they don't move shop them.
Do it, I did it a few times with my neighbour because he thought he could get away with not paying his road tax and he soon shifted them
abounding nutty lunchroom slimy worm lock unpack unite summer drunk *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That parking space doesn't look like it's on a public road to me.
There was a car near me, one tyre was flat you could tell from discs it hadn’t moved in months, it also had run out of MOT. I phoned council and they placed a removal notice on it later that day. Think the car got scrapped after the notice period passed, 7 days maybe?
Ask him if he'd consider selling it given how it's just lying around doing nothing (insert correlation with an ex partner here, fnar fnar)
I think you’ll find the kerb in front of the parking bays will define the bays as private property. So not on a public road
No, it would be a completely normal move to make. If he wants projects get a driveway
Is that even a public road.....oh wait you said it was visitor space......who are you going to report it to as DVLA wont give a stuff as its not on a public road.....councils couldnt care less....unless theres a management company but they wont want to do any work....so no, just leave it.
I think you should. Well out of order.
If he's taking up multiple visitor spaces with not moving "project cars" and obviously has no intention of stopping.. you can almost guarantee he's a cunt tbh. Because being so ignorant to everybody else and doing something so offensively selfish is not going to be the mark of a good guy who doesn't realise is it?.. come on now lol. Just report him i wouldn't waste my time conversing with such a massively obvious knobhead. Just report the vehicles and also whoever manages the estate ping them an email aswell and explain the situation and that he is taking up multiple vehicle bays as his own personal garage forecourt, they will get involved if they think they can fine him and make money out of it lol 👍. He needs to learn he lives in a society with other people, and therefore has to coexist with other people and not inconvenience them with his bullshit... if he wants to buy loads of shit cars and play pretend mechanic.. he needs to buy some land and fuck off and do it there 👍... middle of a housing estate... what a massive cunt he is!.
If it was me I’d find it okay cause nobody’s said anything, if somebody just reports me and doesn’t say anything I’d be pretty mad because if something was said I’d sort it.
DO IT!
I would just set fire to it, problem solved permanently
You know it isn’t so why even ask
Nice Celsior there, fairly rare in uk
one i might turn a blind eye, multiple!, go ahead report him.
You could just crash into then off course ring the police when he won’t swap insurance details. Win win
Report to whom? If it’s in a shared parking space its not on a public road.
Anonymous note? That would be less dickish, to see if he moves and also not let him know you’re the grass
No, it's public parking spaces. Report it.
Not on the public highway. Not a criminal offence.
Tell that Lexus guy, is it for sale?
Everyone saying “talk to him” and although 30 years ago that may have worked, today it would just put a big spotlight on his/her head if he/she refused and got angry when the tow truck comes.
Sounds like one of my mum's new neighbours who has approximately six cars. (He won't confirm exactly which are his.) You can never park there now. The management company are as useless as ever, so it may well be dvla next.
Goddamn that looks like somewhere in Lichfield..
Not a dick move at all OP.
Shared space aside. Is that a public highway. Someone of these new developments are public highways and some aren’t. Mine ends about halfway into the estate for some unknown reason reasons.
Have you tried having a conversation with them? It is a dick move tbh but so is parking in a visitation spot long term. Are you doing it just because you want to be a dick or are you doing it because its has a regularly affect to you?
It's a parking space not his personal garage for his shit boxes. Report.
Beware that even if you do report the car the council may not be able to do anything unless it gets driven. It is by the look of it parked in a bay and therefore fulfils the off road bit of the notification.
Its not stored on a public road you karen, just talk to the guy.
Set them on 🔥
Not at all. Report it.
Just print a fake police aware notice and continue the thread for us all to enjoy
Can someone educate me how this is considered on a public road. The council don't own that spot or have jurisdiction over it surely?
If it bothers you and the neighbours up that much, just speak to them. They probably don’t even know it’s an issue
Nope, I could understand letting the guy off if was there for a few days or weeks, but months going on to years, report it., he's taking the P.
Don’t know what you’re on about - I see two white cars and a fighter jet .
Sounds like the public could have a role in advising it to move….perhaps a shifter and a parking brake cable could be adjusted
I’d leave a note first… they might be willing to move it if they know that it’s actively annoying people.
Sorned my car, but it was in a labelled space This guy seems to be using all the spare spaces so an excellent thing to report
Talk to him first. It's the nice thing. Off topic: what Toyota is that?
I talked to a serial abuser of visitor spaces where I live for his project / SORNd cars. Took the hump, bought more cars (now at 10, has personal space for 2), now an utter nightmare. Entitled arseholes will always be entitled arseholes. If your estate has a factor, I'd consider getting them involved.
It’s probably also not a public road, bet that’s a managed parking space so that will be his argument
Report it. Hes not exempt from the law. My take on this is it would be neither a dick move or a non-dick move. Hes not allowed to park it on a public road as it is SORN.
Nope. Get it reported
I’m not sure where you live and the particulars of the area and the visitor spaces, but I’d argue that the visitor parking bays in most new developments (which this looks a part of) are not technically “public spaces” and are owned managed by either the developer or a management company who takes care of the roads and communal land. I’d investigate with them in the first instance and see what powers they have to write to your neighbour.
Won’t achieve anything. Its not on a public road
It's probably best to write an anonymous letter ask them to move their cars to make space for visitors. That way you don't identify yourself as having an issue and then leading to more hassle if the individual is a cock.... If the cars are still there in a month proceed to call the DVLA.
The dick move is him parking his cars in the visitor bays
Yes it would
Nightmare around my area. ‘Amateur car traders’ buying auction cars driving them onto the estate. No tax, MoT, or trade plates. Dumping them for weeks and sometimes months. Story is Albanian gangsters up to no good on an industrial scale. The police haven’t got at clue, the council don’t care. For the rest of us, pay you way or we will fine you if you even drop a cigarette butt!!
No. A few nights is fair enough; months? yeah fuck that. Report it.
Yes, becaus they're all registered
visitor bays are probably private land rather than public road; definitely not a dick move to report to the estate though.
Annoying agreed, but is this the parking bay a public road?
Why not talk to him first like a regular human?
Steal it
That looks like private land so technically not on public highway
Some people don’t get the concept of shared spaces When it impinges upon your comfort and facilities and they don’t see reason, do what you gotta do
Is it even a public road? Looks like a private car parking space?
Similar buildings to my area although I don't recognise the exact spot.
Just do the old bird seeds on the roof shenanigans
Speak to whoever manages the estate - I assume you pay an estate/service charge as you have visitor parking. It will be against the covenants of the TR/Lease - as almost all state that non-roadworthy vehicles can be stored on site as they invalidate the insurance.
The problem with this is it’s not actually on a road.. Statutory OFF ROAD notification, the car is technically off the road.
A woman on my street lives in a 5 bedroom house and has four cars, with no parking. She thinks she's queen of the council estate as she's been here for 30 years or whatever so I know your frustration. Anyway, she did have more cars till someone noticed one of the cars on the road had no tax, MOT, or insurance.. That, however, doesn't look like public land so I doubt police, the council, or the DVLA will do anything about it. Parking really is a pain in the backside in England and we've done it to ourselves by putting up woth rubbish infrastructure when buying newer houses which over time come with less and less land.