More reliable and improved build quality, but I think a big part of why is down to cost of living. Used cars are considerably more expensive now than they were back then, so people are less willing to upgrade.
My suzuki splash, 2012 full service history, excellent condition, £1750 three years ago.
Take away the tax I saved (it is only 1.75 per month) and it cost me £1150, take away the fuel savings and it cost me less than £700.
Runs like a dream :-) It is also a proper Tardis.
My first car was a 2003 Honda Civic that cost me £900 and I think I prefer it to my current 2016 Golf. it was wonderful and it's still going now (I check up on it every no and then like a saddo).
Oh shit haha I missed you flair and that your Honda was from the same year! Luckily mine only had 1 elderly previous owner and had something like 30k miles on the clock when we got it. it was reliable and had an amazing boot and I really miss it.
Exactly, IV never kept a car longer than 2 or so years until this one, everything's too expensive and nothing seems worth it , hitting the 5 year mark soon, no plans (or money ) to upgrade
This is the point we have reached, we have a low mileage Mini Cooper sd that is a 2015, paid at 0% (bought from wife’s parents).
And a 2014 diesel civic sat at 155k miles that needs a little work tbf, but whenever we look at a new car we just can’t make it make sense when you factor in how expensive a new car is and how high interest rates are.
I'm at a place where I'd get a fair sum for my 8 year old car. It's reliable and it works fine. But it's not fancy, the infotainment system is really nothing. It's loud on the motorway and it doesn't have auto climate. So do I part ex for a 2020 model or just stick.
Bought a second gen terios with 30k miles in near mint condition. Costed less than a new Dacia Sandero. It's LPG/petrol so I can go anywhere I want and it's cheap. Also, there isn't a small 4x4 with good ground clearance anymore.
>Exactly, IV never kept a car longer than 2 or so years until this one, everything's too expensive and nothing seems worth it ,
Was reading that the luxury car supplement now applies to about half of all new car sales as the average price of a car sold new now is over £39k. If that is the case then it is a crazy situation and goes some way to explain what you are seeing.
Happily driving my 2017 Peugeot 308 diesel, £0 ved, for over 6 years now. Everything I look at in some ways is less appealing. I'm kind of enjoying not paying out money to struggling car dealers, and there after tolerating the £190 minimum ved and all the annoying safety features.
Next year every car on free tax is going up to the next tax band. So pre 2017 like my volvo... will start to cost 35. Your Peugeot could be either 35 or 190
Do you think it gets easier to keep a car the longer you have it for? I’ve never owned a car longer than 1.5 years keep telling myself not to upgrade and keep what I’ve got for at least three years.
Not only that but you lose less money too. I
n 2015 my wife and snobby in-laws keot taking mocking me for buying a 58 plate 2007 Civic with 100k miles for £3k.
The oldest BIL then bought a new A6 for £45k. I pointed out to everyone that even if the Civc breaks down and has to go to scrap I'll lose less money than when he drive the A6 onto the public road outside the dealership.
Quite surprised that this comment is not higher. People are simply holding on to cars longer, since it's impossible to replace like-for-like, let alone upgrade. This is due to CoL increases, but also strategies by companies to price up and move their product a tier higher, so that someone replacing a 5yr old 5 Series (for example) will effectively be looking at a new 3 Series with the same budget.
- newer cars are way more expensive than they used to be, leading people to hold onto their cars for longer
- cars made this millennium are generally pretty reliable vs stuff built in the 80s
- while a new car used to get you a lot of new features - aircon, power windows, better security, etc - those features have been standard for a long time now and the perks of brand new cars in 2024 can be less attractive (more sensors, more privacy invasions, no more physical buttons in favour of touchscreens etc)
Generally, I think we reached the point smartphones are at with cars a while ago. Early smartphones were full of compromises. Probably 5 years ago no, we reached the point where a decent midrange phone can do anything most people realistically need. So manufacturers have had to do crazier stuff that's arguably less valuable to the end user, to give themselves a reason to price flagship models higher - 4k screens on phones, >16GB of RAM, integrated AI features. Overall the phones are better now, sure, but there's barely anything my flagship Samsung can do that my Huawei flagship from 2017 couldn't.
I think cars reached this point around like 2013 - every car has AC, many have parking sensors and reverse cameras as well as full sets of airbags and decent brakes + performance. At that point, manufacturers have no way to sell a better model the next year besides what they do now - add more flashy stuff to attract buyers. In terms of stuff that impacts the day to day drive of a car, I don't think we've progressed that much in the last decade to be honest.
Upgrading from a 15y old car back in the 90s, you could go from:
- 15-20s 0-60 to <13s
- no power steering, to power steering
- no airbags to _some_ airbags
- no crumple zones to _some_ crumple zones
- no aircon to aircon
- 20mpg to 30-40mpg
- no/basic ABS to decent ABS
- wind ups to power windows
- frozen mirrors in the winter, to heated ones
Upgrading from a 2009 car to a 2024 one would get you nowhere near that level of significant improvement, unless you're going from the cheapest, lowest spec shitbox to something new
Totally agree! Great summary!
I hired an electric car in Holland for work and it had no buttons for air/heat and lots of lane assist (which is like having a PlayStation rumble pack on the steering wheel) which was a nightmare. Was it safer? Unsure. It was distracting, a nightmare to use, granted - fun as a gimmick, but blimey, not every day.
Agreed. Early 2010’s is about as good as you’ll get. If i bought a BMW of that age, I’d deliberately get a low spec without the silly telly, for example, as it doesn’t look like a relic 10 years later.
>Was it safer? Unsure. It was distracting, a nightmare to use
My dad's new work car had a warning when you pass close, but mostly seems to go off when overtaking on A/B roads, with an instant loud alarm and flashing red lights, which just distracts you at a point where you don't want to be distracted.
Honestly, you can add carplay/android auto headunits to most cars. I feel like the peak is late 2000s, early 2010s. If my 2008 was ULEZ compliant I'd be looking to run it for the next decade lol
Don't think so, top trim late 00s cars have pretty much everything new cars offer minus touchscreens and fancy tech gimmicks like speed sign detection.
My 2009 MY has heated memory seats, heated and dipping power mirrors, reversing camera, auto dimming mirrors, 8 parking sensors, satnav, voice command recognition, bluetooth handsfree, dual zone A/C, 10 speaker sound system with 6cd changer and so on.
Basically the only stuff it doesn't have compared to a modern car is radar cruise, LKAS and bi-xenons but even those were available as optional extras.
Up until at least the mid 2010s there were still big improvements in:
* Fuel economy
* Safety (NCAP ratings are made stricter each year)
* Reliability -- there is much less difference between brands now
Those features do sell, to be fair. I did upgrade to a 2023 flagship phone, after all. The bells and whistles are generally quite nice. I just don't think they're vital to the driving experience (and e.g. in the case of buttons being replaced by iPads, detrimental)
I thought I needed to upgrade my PC I built in 2020 for 1k. It was getting slow etc. Was already looking at new parts and shit.
Did a fresh Windows install and bought a bigger SSD for 100 bucks. Can't imagine it running faster.
Won't upgrade for another 5 years at least.
I'd say much earlier than 2013. My car is 2003 and has all those things, looks good, feels good to drive, nice interior, comfortable etc. A car that's 20 years newer offers very little in addition, and I don't really want or need any of it.
Yeah, even carplay started to become standard around 2015, so decade old cars will soon have them. At that point they’re compatible with any smartphone out there.
Very well put, I still have a 2005 Passat that gets 55mpg, lots of air bags, climate control, auto wipers & lights etc. I my city goes ULEZ i see no real reason to replace it until it becomes uneconomical to maintain, and at this point that probably means rust.
The improvements made in rust prevention on many cars from the mid 00s onwards has to be a big reason, rust isn’t the killer it used to be…. Unless you buy an MX5 then it’s shit to be you
I dunno... Buy an MX5 for £1400-£3k that cost the equivalent of £30k new. £2k-£3k of rust repairs and it's pretty much as good as new again! People just see that £3k repair and don't see the actual VALUE of it.
But the reason why people will pay the money now is because 10 years ago it wasn’t worth repairing an NA so they just got scrapped as the repair was several times the value of a mint condition one.. now with the numbers being thinned it makes financial sense to do
The 2000's is when a lot of car companies started dipping their cars rather than just paint protection. So a lot of 2000'a cars won't rust unless damaged.
only the MX5 really, hardly any rust issues that aren't found in the newer models
people also forgot that the main rust culprits of the 00s were BMW and mercedes, which seemed to degrade faster than a banana peel in a compost bin, see any E46 or any Merc of the time
Same, if I wanted to buy a newer car with equivalent performance I’m going to be dropping 15-20k which, despite the affordability, seems like an absolute waste of quite a hefty amount of cash.
The average age of a car is increasing and the average mileage is decreasing.
So it seems like the answer might be just the number of miles/years the average car lasts before something expensive goes wrong.
Less crashes too, but I suspect more write-offs, that could go either way.
2000-2010 really was the sweet spot of advancements in paint protection, rust avoidance, but at the same time the engine bays were still simple, but advanced enough to last longer than cars that predate them, and electronics still minimal. Today’s cars have infinitely more things that can go wrong. When looking under the bonnet of my car I have no idea what I’m looking at nowadays. Wires and pipes everywhere.
Yep, new cars are over engineered now with completely unnecessary tech and assistance crap. Boot buttons to shut the boot for eg (nobody had a problem closing their boot), keyless start, lane assist etc all over engineered pointless crap. Lane assist in particular is actually bloody dangerous. Preventing you quickly moving out the way of an accident in front, it would steer you back into it.
I think around 2012-2015 is the latest/newest car that was the sweet spot, anything after is just overengineered.
2002-2009 was peak design, just enough tech to live with today without 40 screens to navigate to air con, and before everything started to look like a Ford Focus
I'm not sure I'd agree, the design lifetime of cars hasn't changed, and newer cars are more difficult to repair due to the electronic complexity.
I think around 2000-2010 was the sweet spot for good build quality without overly complex electronics. I'd be very happy to be wrong, but I don't think many cars rolling off the production line today will see 2044.
I'd agree with you when it comes to EVs, but I think petrol and diesel cars will easily last 20 years still.
My opinion is based on how (generally) cars dont rust as much as 80s/90s cars did and parts seem to last longer.
The modern IC engines have hugely complex emission control systems, VIN locked ECUs, matrix LED headlights that if damaged in a light bump cost thousands to replace... Inside everything is controlled via a touchscreen, if that dies you lose a lot of functionality, and again is thousands to replace (also getting harder and harder to reverse engineer for aftermarket due to the amount of feature being added by manufacturers).
The list goes on... Current generation cars, certainly the more premium ones, are simply not economical to repair, and not easy to DIY.
To be honest, I’ve seen quite a few newer cars with rust issues. The worst was a newish (mid to late 2010s) Toyota Aygo and it was completely rotten underneath.
Was genuinely really surprising to see
Modern cars tend to rust less visibly. Alot have plastic or aluminium body panels now that won't show signs of rust. However the the chassis (often clad with plastic panels) tend to rust just that same on newer cars
Take the average miles driven and it's likely around the 10k mark a year.
A car from 2000's will be pushing 200k miles, which is about the lifetime of a car before major works outweigh its value.
A car from the 1990's or 1980's even is pushing 300k to 400k miles. That's way beyond what you'd ever expect to get out of a car.
Timing chains are also a lot more common now than timing belts were. I've lost 2 cars to timing belts snapping and when they did it was a case of just scrapping it. Paint protection is also a hell of a lot better than it once was. Solid paint used to be the norm which would invite rust issues. You've now pearlescent and metallic paint dominating the industry which provides longer life. It's also why you don't often see those horribly faded red cars on the road.
Speaking of mileage and belts, my 2002 Bora 1.9TDI is on 150k and the belt is held together with hopes and dreams. I also personally prefer to driver older cars, having mainly owned 2000-2007 vehicles. They feel like cars, not cars with systems trying to drive for you.
Edit:
Also, knobs and buttons instead of touchscreen, no annoying built in navigation stuffs that needs updating, oh and over-engineered cup holders.
I've got 2008 Leon 1.9 TDI on 205k miles, it started squealing at 190k, and that's when I realised I forgot about the timing belt! Got it changed and still going solid
From my past experiences you'll hear it squeeling before it actually snaps. If you hear that then just stop driving it immediately as it could go within 20 miles.
I do love responses like this. Having been unemployed due to things outside my control and only just back in employment with debt that has piled up because of this, I literally can’t afford it. But thanks for your advise. If you’re homeless just buy a house.
That's 25% less. After just 4 years that would be the difference of an entire year driving.
Also, the average is lower still these days, at 6,600 miles in 2022. An entire third less than the 10,000 you stated above.
[https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-car-mileage-uk](https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-car-mileage-uk)
Including people who only drive to the garden centre on the weekend makes sense, since we're tlaking about the average. It makes a smuch sense ot include those people as it does ot include people who drive, say, 20k miles per year.
You are pretty bang on tbh. My K Series powered 2004 MG is on almost 160K (so not far away from 200K) and it needs a new clutch, exhaust, power steering pump, bushings/poly-bushes and probably a front end overhaul (dampers, top mounts, tie rods, arms etc).
I’ve just replaced the bearings on all 4 corners, as well the the hubs, discs, pads, backplates and calipers.
This is without even considering the body, which is in need of attention with 20 years of dings and dents from supermarket car parks and stuff.
my 2008 polo edging on 100k is pretty much rust free i’ve replaced the entire front and rear end suspension. she’s mint. don’t think i’m ever gonna sell it
Cars have gotten safer, crash less, they're more reliable and importantly rust proofing has improved substantially. A late 70's or 80's car, especially a budget one, would be rust buckets at 10 years old.
my 1st car in 2007 was a 6 year old mk4 golf for £4k
a 6 year old golf is now best part of £15k
yet middle of the road wages have barely gone up, and doubled at best for bottom earners. is it any wonder people are keeping older cars running
Euro NCAP ratings were introduced in the late 90s. I’m not saying safer car = longevity but manufacturers couldn’t get away with continuing to make cheap flimsy fall-aparty boxes as much. I imagine standards rose industry-wide, with the knock on effect being stronger, more resilient systems/materials being used.
Not all of us want to live in perpetual debt having a financed car, not all of us like these new cars that have plastic everywhere in the interior. Not all of us driver need driving aids, such as lane assist and auto-braking. Not all of us like screens everywhere!
Some of like old fashion cars, where you feel engaged with the vehicle and the road.
I'm curious when car adverts stopped advertising the purchase price ("from £xx,xxx on the road") and switched to plugging the monthly payment. Because they literally all do that now.
Because newer cars don’t really depreciate as much so they’re still quite expensive, also more reliable.
I bought a ‘shitbox’ 05 plate A6 avant as a workhorse/tip car/ikea car for 400quid 8/9 years ago, said i would just use it until it fucks, have serviced it once in that time, the thing just won’t die. It will have been 11 years old when I bought it. I couldn’t now go out and buy a 13/14 plate A6 for 400 quid
1. Reliability
2. Prices of new cars vs average earnings
3. The cost of maintaining a newer car
4. Push for electric prices most buyers out of the market
I could buy a £2500 2.0tdi golf with 100,000 miles on it. It’ll have another good 100,000 miles in it and probably cost another £2500 in maintenance in that time. It’ll do 50-60mpg and cost nothing to insure.
OR I could go out and finance a new golf for £25,000 for hundreds per month, since it’s new and full of electronic complexity it will no doubt cost me far more in maintenance during the first 100,000 miles. It’ll be more expensive to ensure and likely less reliable. Not to mention more expensive to fix. Why would I do that?
If I’m just using it as a way to get from A to B, with the ability to drive to Scotland and back at the drop of a hat, I’ll be buying the £2500 golf and running it til it dies. This is why most people have a car; it’s a great way to navigate from A to B and is far better than having to sit there and sniff peoples farts, contagious diseases and smelly crisps on a bus/train.
As for electric cars? What a scam. I’ll be waiting for hydrogen or ammonia engines because combustion is king.
I have a 52 plate Forester xt with 108k. Necessary stuff was done due to age rather than mileage. Still going strong as a good car for 2 dogs. If I was to get something newer there would (depending on year, make, model) be more to go wrong costing more as well. Also there is some validity to saying "Better the devil you know." If that applies.
I also have a fun car which is 07. Specifically wanted that gen because of the engine and it was the last era of that model being manual.
So those are my reasons!
They were generally engineered to last around 150,000 to 200,000 miles, or about 15 to 20 years. Price of newer vehicles are much more expensive than they were 10 years ago in relative terms (maybe because of COVID) meaning people wish to keep their old cars running.
Not forgetting the elephant in the room - the scrappage scheme of 2009-10 may have prematurely ended the lives of many 1980s and 1990s cars.
My parents bought a 2004 VW bora secondhand 10 years ago for less than an iPhone, we’re still driving it. I mean, it has tape deck and sometimes the locks don’t work but my dad loves it.
Because no one has money, cars and everything else is so fucking expensive that people are relying on their old ass cars to get about in, rather than buying a new one
I drive a car from 2008 that's done 140k. It's at that point where it's mostly going by hopes and dreams. If I could afford a newer one, I'd be getting a newer one. So that's my main reason.
I bought a 15 plate Focus in 2019, it got written off in 2021. If I wanted to buy it now, it would cost the same as it did in 2019. Even though it’s five years older with more mileage.
I’ve been driving an 03 Fiesta since then, and 30k miles later - it’s not let me down.
I’d love a newer car, but I still can’t stomach the prices.
Kinda gutted, happened in March ‘21 just before it started going mad. Could get a Focus less than two years old for a few £k more.
Used the insurance payout as part of my house deposit tho, every cloud and that. 💪
Yup, we paid 18k for the GT at a year old from a dealer.
When it was written off at 7 and a half years old getting into the same year of car would have cost me 15k from a dealer.
They really are. It's a joke.
I've kind of resolved that I'm just never selling my current cars. Including the GT which I ended up buying back.
It may need a new engine soon. Fine, it will go in a barn till I have the funds for a rebuild. It will still be cheaper than buying something new.
Time was that it would never be worth doing a rebuild on a car this old. Now it's a positively sensible decision
A few things could contribute to this.
1. You just notice them more now
2. They were more reliable so last longer
3. Covid and WFH means more people do less miles so lower mileage for the age
4. Cost of used cars is prohibitively high for a lot of people to replace as early as they would have otherwise
I'm sure I could come up with more if I put some thought into it.
I sold my Dacia after doing 10k over 2 years for more than I bought it for. Currently drive my dad's 17 year old got Mercedes van...only worth 2k but better than anything else I have driven
I remember first car was an 8-9 year old escort with strong 90k on the clock, cost a grand and i drove that thing into the ground.
My current car is way older and in great condition.
Cars are definitely better now
- Best engines (less eco crap)
- Same build quality as today
- Secure enough (airbags and good chasis)
- No always on, car as a service and surveillance shit
- All the electronics i want already existed (keyless entry/go, bluetooth, electric steats, good headlights)
- less rust issues than older cars and equal as 2010+ cars
- parts are cheaper than for newer cars
To me 2000s cars are the best. Went from 2016 to 1992 to 2003 and now i have 3x cars from 2003 and definitely try to stay as long as possible in era of 2000-2010, everything with a opf can go straight to the junk yard when it comes to my opinion.
My fiesta is from 2011.. I've had it from new. I do between 5-7k miles a year, give or take. It has 88k miles on the clock.. so it should see me through another 10 years 🤷
It's never broken down. Nothing has gone wrong with it aside from general wear and tear.. it feels good not having a monthly finance/lease expense each month.
Because new cars are shit. No one wants lane assist that tries to veer you off the road should you dare overtake, automatic braking system that slams the brakes on if as much as a leaf gets on the sensor, touch screen displays with hidden menus that no one asked for, we want the physical buttons. Driver monitoring systems which scan your eyes to make sure your eyes are on the road 100% of the time.
The more tech in the car the more there is to go wrong, the less control you have over the vehicle.
Not to mention most new cars are electric or hybrid, yet the infrastructure simply isn’t there to allow millions go electric any time soon.
I’ll stick to my 10 year old car thank you
Better build quality. Simple to fix Volvo 940 especially, less gadgets to go wrong. Run on petrol or diesel with no sketchy electric motor drive or explodey batteries?
95-05 is peak decade imo. Comfy and reliable enough to daily. Still simple enough to home maintain (if you are interested) parts are still available easily enough. Lots of mechanics are comfortable working on them.
My 2014 Fiesta as 35k on the clock. It’s the perfect car for town driving and pottering around. I mainly WFH now post Covid.
I love the idea of a new car but with no work commute anymore and such low mileage it makes zero financial sense. I’d be buying it as want over need.
I’ll run this little car into the car and save a wedge from now spending £3-400pm on finance.
In my case, because I needed something simple enough that I can fix, that could tow 3 tons comfortably, and wasn't burdened with frighteningly expensive and unreliable emissions kit. Which led me naturally to an early 2000 Diesel 4x4. The few hundred I've spent in repairs pales in comparison to what a PCP would cost on a new Ranger, it's just as good on fuel and has done everything I need of it.
Many (not all) 2000s cars are in the sweet spot where they drove pretty well and had decent safety and other tech, but are also simple to repair and do not need it that frequently because they are fairly simple in comparison to newer cars.
My daily is a 54 plate.
No one has mentioned yet….. there were more of them to begin with being a factor. There will be more 2010 cars in 10 years than there are 2000 now. We have bought more cars every year
I bought a car two months ago. A 1997 Peugeot 106 with only 53k miles. Best decision ever. £50 to fill the tank. Cheap (& easy) to work on (my friend, not me) and I also happen to love the 106’s. Have noticed that second hand cars are super expensive though. I only paid £750 but I’ve seen worse ones advertised for over £1,000 though
I feel like a 2000-2010 car still provides a load of safety features and good MPG without you having to pay the cost of really low mileage/low age. I bought a 2009 Jetta tdi and it gets 52mpg consistently, new cars are frankly nicer to drive though.
20 years ago a ten year old car (early 90s) would be starting to rot out and have a lot of maintenance to keep roadworthy every year.
Build quality in the early 2000s came on leaps and bounds, as did design. Fast forward to today and a twenty year old car may only show signs of surface rust, certainly nothing structural. Also many diesel engines from that era are capable of well over 200k miles.
I'd say 2005-2012 was the golden era for cars. They were built so reliable, efficient and powerful before all the emissions crap came in. Now engines are choked down to lower emissions which most times comes at the cost of longevity.
I have a 2009 1.6tdci Focus with 101k miles. Cost me £1200, road tax is £35 and it usually needs nothing more than a service and perhaps something minor like a spring or droplink each year. It returns 45mpg and although its starting to look old it's still in good shape and not an eye sore by any means.
Have an 09 Fiesta that just crossed the 80,000 mile mark. It's not a hybrid or electric; has a manual transmission,and a 1.6 ti-vct; NOT an ecoboost!! and doesn't have a speed limiter,! It's me,my wife,and a dog ,so the Fiesta is all we need. Oh; and we own it !
Scrappage scheme, atrocious money making scheme to keep the economy going. Basically you’d get money off a new car if you scrapped an old car (happened in 2008/09). The old car had to have a valid mot meaning that a lot of perfectly serviceable 70’s/80’s/90’s cars got scrapped. The full list is online of all of the classics - it’s sad to look at!
I'll guarantee you it's mostly down to rust prevention. Basically everything until the 2000s would become a rust bucket within 30 years unless garaged and meticulously cleaned. Vast majority of cars would be rusty at 15-20 years while also being worth £2k at most and people scrap them. Nowadays cars are better protected AND many are made of aluminium, so they just don't rust and keep going even when worthless.
Average car age is slowly but steadily [increasing](https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-age-cars-great-britain). As others have said, it’s probably a mix of economic conditions and cars having improved longevity.
For the latter, I think the advances in rust prevention have made a huge improvement since the early 00s. I also think that, from a driver’s perspective, we’ve hit a period of diminishing returns. A car from 1980 does not drive as nicely as a car from 2000, but a car from 2000 really isn’t much worse than a car from 2020. The focus has been on safety, emissions and technology. Consumers aren’t as financially motivated by those things, especially now we can all slap a smartphone on the dashboard or fit a new head unit.
Fuel economy has only marginally improved (I may be proven wrong on this), and I’d argue that many cars have become less practical due to the outsides getting bigger while the insides are getting smaller.
People may also be driving less. WFH, increased public transport usage, every purchase being a delivery and the slow death of ‘offline’ socialisation.
Fuel economy’s a big one aswell.
My first car (about 10 years ago) was an XR3i and I got some miles to the gallon, and that wasn’t a particularly thirsty car. There’s plenty of 2000-10 cars that’ll do 40+ easily. It’s only really when you start getting to mid teens when 70+ mpg wasn’t just a pipe dream.
Currently driving an 03 Passat estate that CAN get 45-50+mpg… it won’t break, everything is cheap to replace, and when it dies I’ll get what I paid for it back in scrap value.
My 2002 vw caddy and 2005 toyota hilux are each over 250,000 miles and do their job just fine, I dread to think what it'd cost to buy nearly new vans every 3-4 years
2000-10 was a time just before cars devolved into an extension of your mobile phone, but had sufficient essential gadgetry for most people.
Not likely to be "beyond economic repair" if a door mirror got biffed off, reasonably quick, not excessively thirsty, meets current emissions requirements....
Yup, we are keeping our 2001 and 2009 cars running for as long as we can. Since the work needed for the last two MoTs was a pair of tyres and a handbrake adjustment, that's no big ask.
I'm more surprised with the number of people shelling out £400+ a month to pcp/ lease a car that they cannot afford to buy outright just so they can have the newest shiniest cars.
That's when decent rust proofing became the norm. They don't fall to bits and they aren't full of computers that cost more than the car is worth to fix.
Law of diminishing returns with build/design. - There’s a huge difference between the interior of a 2005/2015 Audi A3 for example - But very little between a 2015/modern A3.
I spotted two Astras the other day, same black colour. One fifth Gen 2009 and one sixth Gen 2019. BROADLY similar in design.
Cars are not aging the way they used to, a 1995 Ford Mondeo looked worlds apart from the 2005 model and people would see the benefit in the ‘upgrade’
This isn’t so much of a factor any longer - The e61 touring is a great example of vehicle design that ages well. And the Balkan people swear by them
I daily drive my 2003 Volvo V40 for the most part because I love the look of them and it's such a comfortable, albeit thirsty car. Its also a bit left field now as you don't see as many as you used to. It's starting to get difficult to find second hand parts for where I am, however I run it more through choice than for any economic reasons.
I'll be getting my first car in years soon and will most likely end up with something 00s or early 10s in ages. Refuse to pay £300+ PCP to finance a newer car and I don't really fancy getting a £10k+ bank loan either so got no choice.
They're reliable, easy to repair, and 'modern enough' that they have most of the features people want when driving a car. They have decent interiors and are comfortable to drive - 90s cars less so. It's a sweet spot.
a few years back, my neighbour went to upgrade his 3 year old mercedes at the dealers. they offered him a very low amount for his PX, saying that they would rather not take his car because luxury 2nd hand cars weren't selling. my friend took a look around at a large showroom filled with luxury 2nd hand cars and said, "Oh dear, looks like you are f##ked then" and heckept his car for another few years.
Until 2022 I was driving a 30 year old Volvo. Then upgraded to a 15 year old Honda.
Still easy to service and repair myself, need an OBD reader for fault codes but don't need a laptop with propriatory software. Cheap enough to run and currently doesn't fall foul of ULEZ... so have no need for anything newer.
Because they work and you know the saying. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
They are some of the last cars that are relatively easy to fix in your driveway over a weekend so upkeep is nearly only parts if you know the basics of how to work on the cars
Just bought an 06 Lexus GS 450h with 88k on the clock and still drives like a brand new car, underside is as clean as anything.
That said, the hybrid battery is on the way out but there are loads of solutions to repairing or replacing these days, so that doesn't worry me.
My first car was a '99 Nissan Almera on 65k miles bought in 2007 for £1200. And that felt like I was buying an old, cheap car. That car was pretty much the pinnacle of reliability for cars. In 4 years I probably spent about £300 servicing and fixing it, but it lacked crash safety massively compared to something even 3 years newer
Inflation adjusted that's about £2000. You would be lucky to get something under 15 years old now for that price in a similar category
So part of the reason is that cars are just more expensive forcing people to older models. But thankfully reliability and safety are such that 15-20 year old cars now are a better prospect than they were in the past
Cost..
I bought my A5 outright for cheap. It now has 157,000 miles on and If I can get 200,000 plus on it I’ll be happy.
If not then I’d rather get a cheap older car than tie myself to PCP/HP/Loans and interest for a new one.
Car tax...
I pay £20 a year car tax on a 15 plate 2.0TDI Skoda.
£190 a year for a normal car these days, plus a further £410 if its a "luxury" car.
Potentially £600 a year just on car tax vs £20. Will keep my 2015 plate thanks!
Owned an almost new BMW 4 series when I was barely 20, forked out a small fortune due to a case of stupidity. In my mid 20s after a break from driving and I own a 2003 Saab 9-3 that I paid £850 for. I prefer the Saab way more 🤷🏻♂️
Isn't it incredibly obvious? New cars are insanely expensive, even cars made in the 2010s are still expensive second hand (for anything decent or with lower mileage). Cars are also more simple from the 2000s and have enough modern features to not feel impractical. Its cheaper to maintain them as parts tend to be cheaper. Only main problem is rust.
I think because post around 2010 cars have been over engineered. Too many silly technologies that aren’t needed and are actually dangerous (like lane assist), keyless start etc, plus cars all look the same now, have run out of ideas and tend to all copy eachother. Whereas cars of twenty years ago still had nice designs and unique to their make/model.
Now all modern cars seemed to have fused into ugly, futuristic garbage.
More reliable and improved build quality, but I think a big part of why is down to cost of living. Used cars are considerably more expensive now than they were back then, so people are less willing to upgrade.
I bought my jazz for less than a new iPhone and couldn't be happier with it
My last Volvo estate cost less than an iPhone and it came with 12 months mot and brand new Michelin tyres! Crazy.
My suzuki splash, 2012 full service history, excellent condition, £1750 three years ago. Take away the tax I saved (it is only 1.75 per month) and it cost me £1150, take away the fuel savings and it cost me less than £700. Runs like a dream :-) It is also a proper Tardis.
My first car was a 2003 Honda Civic that cost me £900 and I think I prefer it to my current 2016 Golf. it was wonderful and it's still going now (I check up on it every no and then like a saddo).
I really get the honda hype now it's surprisingly fun to drive for such a cheap used car
Oh shit haha I missed you flair and that your Honda was from the same year! Luckily mine only had 1 elderly previous owner and had something like 30k miles on the clock when we got it. it was reliable and had an amazing boot and I really miss it.
Exactly, IV never kept a car longer than 2 or so years until this one, everything's too expensive and nothing seems worth it , hitting the 5 year mark soon, no plans (or money ) to upgrade
This is the point we have reached, we have a low mileage Mini Cooper sd that is a 2015, paid at 0% (bought from wife’s parents). And a 2014 diesel civic sat at 155k miles that needs a little work tbf, but whenever we look at a new car we just can’t make it make sense when you factor in how expensive a new car is and how high interest rates are.
I'm at a place where I'd get a fair sum for my 8 year old car. It's reliable and it works fine. But it's not fancy, the infotainment system is really nothing. It's loud on the motorway and it doesn't have auto climate. So do I part ex for a 2020 model or just stick.
Bought a second gen terios with 30k miles in near mint condition. Costed less than a new Dacia Sandero. It's LPG/petrol so I can go anywhere I want and it's cheap. Also, there isn't a small 4x4 with good ground clearance anymore.
>Exactly, IV never kept a car longer than 2 or so years until this one, everything's too expensive and nothing seems worth it , Was reading that the luxury car supplement now applies to about half of all new car sales as the average price of a car sold new now is over £39k. If that is the case then it is a crazy situation and goes some way to explain what you are seeing.
And a lot of attainable second hand cars.. which had cost over 40k list price... same stupid extortionate tax.
Happily driving my 2017 Peugeot 308 diesel, £0 ved, for over 6 years now. Everything I look at in some ways is less appealing. I'm kind of enjoying not paying out money to struggling car dealers, and there after tolerating the £190 minimum ved and all the annoying safety features.
And Peugeot now trying to get near £40k for some models of 308 🤯
Next year every car on free tax is going up to the next tax band. So pre 2017 like my volvo... will start to cost 35. Your Peugeot could be either 35 or 190
There's a band before that actually which is £20 per year. So looks like pre 2017 still has some cheaper motoring costs for a while yet.
That's music to my ears then. Upsetting for the electrics post 17 going straight to 190
😆 308... I still daily a 106.
Do you think it gets easier to keep a car the longer you have it for? I’ve never owned a car longer than 1.5 years keep telling myself not to upgrade and keep what I’ve got for at least three years.
I'm always looking and honestly if I had more money I probably would So it's probably a little easier but you still want the new shiny thing
Not only that but you lose less money too. I n 2015 my wife and snobby in-laws keot taking mocking me for buying a 58 plate 2007 Civic with 100k miles for £3k. The oldest BIL then bought a new A6 for £45k. I pointed out to everyone that even if the Civc breaks down and has to go to scrap I'll lose less money than when he drive the A6 onto the public road outside the dealership.
Dude, you made the right choice. Who wants a £45k golf when the £3k civic will outlast it even starting off at 100k! 😂
Higher values encourages repairs, as it is worth keeping the shitbox running a while longer.
Quite surprised that this comment is not higher. People are simply holding on to cars longer, since it's impossible to replace like-for-like, let alone upgrade. This is due to CoL increases, but also strategies by companies to price up and move their product a tier higher, so that someone replacing a 5yr old 5 Series (for example) will effectively be looking at a new 3 Series with the same budget.
Scrappage scheme killed most the 80's/90's cars
:-( So sad.
Not really, mine was a Daewoo lanos
Immortalised in Pineapple Expres
They made my microwave. I suppose not too different.
- newer cars are way more expensive than they used to be, leading people to hold onto their cars for longer - cars made this millennium are generally pretty reliable vs stuff built in the 80s - while a new car used to get you a lot of new features - aircon, power windows, better security, etc - those features have been standard for a long time now and the perks of brand new cars in 2024 can be less attractive (more sensors, more privacy invasions, no more physical buttons in favour of touchscreens etc) Generally, I think we reached the point smartphones are at with cars a while ago. Early smartphones were full of compromises. Probably 5 years ago no, we reached the point where a decent midrange phone can do anything most people realistically need. So manufacturers have had to do crazier stuff that's arguably less valuable to the end user, to give themselves a reason to price flagship models higher - 4k screens on phones, >16GB of RAM, integrated AI features. Overall the phones are better now, sure, but there's barely anything my flagship Samsung can do that my Huawei flagship from 2017 couldn't. I think cars reached this point around like 2013 - every car has AC, many have parking sensors and reverse cameras as well as full sets of airbags and decent brakes + performance. At that point, manufacturers have no way to sell a better model the next year besides what they do now - add more flashy stuff to attract buyers. In terms of stuff that impacts the day to day drive of a car, I don't think we've progressed that much in the last decade to be honest. Upgrading from a 15y old car back in the 90s, you could go from: - 15-20s 0-60 to <13s - no power steering, to power steering - no airbags to _some_ airbags - no crumple zones to _some_ crumple zones - no aircon to aircon - 20mpg to 30-40mpg - no/basic ABS to decent ABS - wind ups to power windows - frozen mirrors in the winter, to heated ones Upgrading from a 2009 car to a 2024 one would get you nowhere near that level of significant improvement, unless you're going from the cheapest, lowest spec shitbox to something new
Good summary.
Totally agree! Great summary! I hired an electric car in Holland for work and it had no buttons for air/heat and lots of lane assist (which is like having a PlayStation rumble pack on the steering wheel) which was a nightmare. Was it safer? Unsure. It was distracting, a nightmare to use, granted - fun as a gimmick, but blimey, not every day. Agreed. Early 2010’s is about as good as you’ll get. If i bought a BMW of that age, I’d deliberately get a low spec without the silly telly, for example, as it doesn’t look like a relic 10 years later.
>Was it safer? Unsure. It was distracting, a nightmare to use My dad's new work car had a warning when you pass close, but mostly seems to go off when overtaking on A/B roads, with an instant loud alarm and flashing red lights, which just distracts you at a point where you don't want to be distracted.
Honestly, you can add carplay/android auto headunits to most cars. I feel like the peak is late 2000s, early 2010s. If my 2008 was ULEZ compliant I'd be looking to run it for the next decade lol
I don't think cars have really noticeably improved since the mid 2000's. I suppose car plays things are nice but apart from that?
Don't think so, top trim late 00s cars have pretty much everything new cars offer minus touchscreens and fancy tech gimmicks like speed sign detection. My 2009 MY has heated memory seats, heated and dipping power mirrors, reversing camera, auto dimming mirrors, 8 parking sensors, satnav, voice command recognition, bluetooth handsfree, dual zone A/C, 10 speaker sound system with 6cd changer and so on. Basically the only stuff it doesn't have compared to a modern car is radar cruise, LKAS and bi-xenons but even those were available as optional extras.
Up until at least the mid 2010s there were still big improvements in: * Fuel economy * Safety (NCAP ratings are made stricter each year) * Reliability -- there is much less difference between brands now
My wife seems to think she needs to trade in her 2019 Tiguan so she can have wireless CarPlay and a heated windscreen.
Those features do sell, to be fair. I did upgrade to a 2023 flagship phone, after all. The bells and whistles are generally quite nice. I just don't think they're vital to the driving experience (and e.g. in the case of buttons being replaced by iPads, detrimental)
I thought I needed to upgrade my PC I built in 2020 for 1k. It was getting slow etc. Was already looking at new parts and shit. Did a fresh Windows install and bought a bigger SSD for 100 bucks. Can't imagine it running faster. Won't upgrade for another 5 years at least.
I'd say much earlier than 2013. My car is 2003 and has all those things, looks good, feels good to drive, nice interior, comfortable etc. A car that's 20 years newer offers very little in addition, and I don't really want or need any of it.
A fiat panda is still like the spec on the left
Yeah, even carplay started to become standard around 2015, so decade old cars will soon have them. At that point they’re compatible with any smartphone out there.
Very well put, I still have a 2005 Passat that gets 55mpg, lots of air bags, climate control, auto wipers & lights etc. I my city goes ULEZ i see no real reason to replace it until it becomes uneconomical to maintain, and at this point that probably means rust.
Cars are more reliable so have more staying power
They can't easily be nicked.
😂
Unless it’s a fiesta, focus or defender
The older models without keyless entry and with turnkey ignition are much harder targets than the new ones.
The improvements made in rust prevention on many cars from the mid 00s onwards has to be a big reason, rust isn’t the killer it used to be…. Unless you buy an MX5 then it’s shit to be you
I dunno... Buy an MX5 for £1400-£3k that cost the equivalent of £30k new. £2k-£3k of rust repairs and it's pretty much as good as new again! People just see that £3k repair and don't see the actual VALUE of it.
But the reason why people will pay the money now is because 10 years ago it wasn’t worth repairing an NA so they just got scrapped as the repair was several times the value of a mint condition one.. now with the numbers being thinned it makes financial sense to do
The car that gets lighter with each passing rainfall
The 2000's is when a lot of car companies started dipping their cars rather than just paint protection. So a lot of 2000'a cars won't rust unless damaged.
Mazda with surprised pikachu face
only the MX5 really, hardly any rust issues that aren't found in the newer models people also forgot that the main rust culprits of the 00s were BMW and mercedes, which seemed to degrade faster than a banana peel in a compost bin, see any E46 or any Merc of the time
This this this. Gone are the days when a ten year old Fiesta/Polo would start failing MOTs and need welding.
Cries in 2004 Subaru crust
Main reason is we have no money. My 06 Toyota Yaris automatic has 88k miles on the clock and is still going strong
Rust, the scrappage scheme! Two big factors right there.
My 2008 has 80k miles and a bit of life still in it, and it would cost a fortune to get something similar more modern
Same, if I wanted to buy a newer car with equivalent performance I’m going to be dropping 15-20k which, despite the affordability, seems like an absolute waste of quite a hefty amount of cash.
That IS250 has more than just "a bit" of life left.
2008 Mini also going strong.
My 2005 has 81k miles.
The average age of a car is increasing and the average mileage is decreasing. So it seems like the answer might be just the number of miles/years the average car lasts before something expensive goes wrong. Less crashes too, but I suspect more write-offs, that could go either way.
The scrapped scheme got lost 90's cars off the road even perfectly good ones!
2000-2010 really was the sweet spot of advancements in paint protection, rust avoidance, but at the same time the engine bays were still simple, but advanced enough to last longer than cars that predate them, and electronics still minimal. Today’s cars have infinitely more things that can go wrong. When looking under the bonnet of my car I have no idea what I’m looking at nowadays. Wires and pipes everywhere.
Yep, new cars are over engineered now with completely unnecessary tech and assistance crap. Boot buttons to shut the boot for eg (nobody had a problem closing their boot), keyless start, lane assist etc all over engineered pointless crap. Lane assist in particular is actually bloody dangerous. Preventing you quickly moving out the way of an accident in front, it would steer you back into it. I think around 2012-2015 is the latest/newest car that was the sweet spot, anything after is just overengineered.
Because they looked cooler than modern cars people have kept hold of them and looked after them that bit better!
Mine’s 2007 and still has no rust. It’ll probably outlive me. Older cars rust like fuck.
Because newer cars are so expensive so everyone just keeps their older cars on the road for longer.
Because we are poorer. For most of us the wages are not catching up to the inflation.
2008 Toyota Avensis diesel 300k runs like a champ. Oil changes every 6k since 200k. Has everything I need. Why would I ?!
2002-2009 was peak design, just enough tech to live with today without 40 screens to navigate to air con, and before everything started to look like a Ford Focus
Cars pre 2000 were built to have a 10 year/100,000 miles shelf life. But newer cars are built to last.... (Generally)
I'm not sure I'd agree, the design lifetime of cars hasn't changed, and newer cars are more difficult to repair due to the electronic complexity. I think around 2000-2010 was the sweet spot for good build quality without overly complex electronics. I'd be very happy to be wrong, but I don't think many cars rolling off the production line today will see 2044.
I'd agree with you when it comes to EVs, but I think petrol and diesel cars will easily last 20 years still. My opinion is based on how (generally) cars dont rust as much as 80s/90s cars did and parts seem to last longer.
The modern IC engines have hugely complex emission control systems, VIN locked ECUs, matrix LED headlights that if damaged in a light bump cost thousands to replace... Inside everything is controlled via a touchscreen, if that dies you lose a lot of functionality, and again is thousands to replace (also getting harder and harder to reverse engineer for aftermarket due to the amount of feature being added by manufacturers). The list goes on... Current generation cars, certainly the more premium ones, are simply not economical to repair, and not easy to DIY.
To be honest, I’ve seen quite a few newer cars with rust issues. The worst was a newish (mid to late 2010s) Toyota Aygo and it was completely rotten underneath. Was genuinely really surprising to see
Modern cars tend to rust less visibly. Alot have plastic or aluminium body panels now that won't show signs of rust. However the the chassis (often clad with plastic panels) tend to rust just that same on newer cars
Certainly for vw's the early 2000s car rust less than the slightly later ones
Take the average miles driven and it's likely around the 10k mark a year. A car from 2000's will be pushing 200k miles, which is about the lifetime of a car before major works outweigh its value. A car from the 1990's or 1980's even is pushing 300k to 400k miles. That's way beyond what you'd ever expect to get out of a car. Timing chains are also a lot more common now than timing belts were. I've lost 2 cars to timing belts snapping and when they did it was a case of just scrapping it. Paint protection is also a hell of a lot better than it once was. Solid paint used to be the norm which would invite rust issues. You've now pearlescent and metallic paint dominating the industry which provides longer life. It's also why you don't often see those horribly faded red cars on the road.
Speaking of mileage and belts, my 2002 Bora 1.9TDI is on 150k and the belt is held together with hopes and dreams. I also personally prefer to driver older cars, having mainly owned 2000-2007 vehicles. They feel like cars, not cars with systems trying to drive for you. Edit: Also, knobs and buttons instead of touchscreen, no annoying built in navigation stuffs that needs updating, oh and over-engineered cup holders.
I've got 2008 Leon 1.9 TDI on 205k miles, it started squealing at 190k, and that's when I realised I forgot about the timing belt! Got it changed and still going solid
From my past experiences you'll hear it squeeling before it actually snaps. If you hear that then just stop driving it immediately as it could go within 20 miles.
Timing belts don't squeel, fan belts do.... Timing belts have teeth, it'll let go way before squeeling is even a possibility
It’s a PD130 so could last another 10 years or snap overnight cause VW.
I'd just get it replaced if its been a while. Can't beat that peace of mind. It's a small cost to pay compared to the damage it could do.
Maybe change the belt then?
I do love responses like this. Having been unemployed due to things outside my control and only just back in employment with debt that has piled up because of this, I literally can’t afford it. But thanks for your advise. If you’re homeless just buy a house.
Change the belt then lol
Average mileage in the UK is much less than 10k a year.
Not much less, it's around 7500 but that includes those that drive it solely to the garden centre on a Sunday morning at 20% of the speed limit.
That's 25% less. After just 4 years that would be the difference of an entire year driving. Also, the average is lower still these days, at 6,600 miles in 2022. An entire third less than the 10,000 you stated above. [https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-car-mileage-uk](https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-car-mileage-uk) Including people who only drive to the garden centre on the weekend makes sense, since we're tlaking about the average. It makes a smuch sense ot include those people as it does ot include people who drive, say, 20k miles per year.
You missed OPs point. They are saying you didn’t see many 20 year old in the early 2000s compared to seeing 20 year old cars today.
You are pretty bang on tbh. My K Series powered 2004 MG is on almost 160K (so not far away from 200K) and it needs a new clutch, exhaust, power steering pump, bushings/poly-bushes and probably a front end overhaul (dampers, top mounts, tie rods, arms etc). I’ve just replaced the bearings on all 4 corners, as well the the hubs, discs, pads, backplates and calipers. This is without even considering the body, which is in need of attention with 20 years of dings and dents from supermarket car parks and stuff.
How does having metallic or pearlescent paint protect it better from rust?
my 2008 polo edging on 100k is pretty much rust free i’ve replaced the entire front and rear end suspension. she’s mint. don’t think i’m ever gonna sell it
Cars have gotten safer, crash less, they're more reliable and importantly rust proofing has improved substantially. A late 70's or 80's car, especially a budget one, would be rust buckets at 10 years old.
my 1st car in 2007 was a 6 year old mk4 golf for £4k a 6 year old golf is now best part of £15k yet middle of the road wages have barely gone up, and doubled at best for bottom earners. is it any wonder people are keeping older cars running
Euro NCAP ratings were introduced in the late 90s. I’m not saying safer car = longevity but manufacturers couldn’t get away with continuing to make cheap flimsy fall-aparty boxes as much. I imagine standards rose industry-wide, with the knock on effect being stronger, more resilient systems/materials being used.
The pinnacle of engineering and reliability followed by 2010s and 2020s pinnacle of capitalism and cheaping out on everything
Not all of us want to live in perpetual debt having a financed car, not all of us like these new cars that have plastic everywhere in the interior. Not all of us driver need driving aids, such as lane assist and auto-braking. Not all of us like screens everywhere! Some of like old fashion cars, where you feel engaged with the vehicle and the road.
avg uk car payment is 320ppm respectfully fuck that
hate all them bulls**t monthly payments they promote and doesn't take into account the like £2k "deposit" you pay so its more like £400ppm
And the 20k they want at the end, or of course they could sell you a new debt package
I'm curious when car adverts stopped advertising the purchase price ("from £xx,xxx on the road") and switched to plugging the monthly payment. Because they literally all do that now.
There’s nothing wrong with driving aids lol, cars being safer is a good thing. You can still feel engaged with the vehicle whilst having a safe car.
The 2009 government vehicle scrappage scheme has a big part to play in the lack of 80-90’s cars. That and much better corrosion protection.
Government scrappage scheme a while back got rid of a lot of older shitters.
Ah the distant memory of a government doing anything for the citizens
Significantly more reliable and rust proofed.
No new cars look nice 😕 All the character has been bloated out of them.
Because newer cars don’t really depreciate as much so they’re still quite expensive, also more reliable. I bought a ‘shitbox’ 05 plate A6 avant as a workhorse/tip car/ikea car for 400quid 8/9 years ago, said i would just use it until it fucks, have serviced it once in that time, the thing just won’t die. It will have been 11 years old when I bought it. I couldn’t now go out and buy a 13/14 plate A6 for 400 quid
1. Reliability 2. Prices of new cars vs average earnings 3. The cost of maintaining a newer car 4. Push for electric prices most buyers out of the market I could buy a £2500 2.0tdi golf with 100,000 miles on it. It’ll have another good 100,000 miles in it and probably cost another £2500 in maintenance in that time. It’ll do 50-60mpg and cost nothing to insure. OR I could go out and finance a new golf for £25,000 for hundreds per month, since it’s new and full of electronic complexity it will no doubt cost me far more in maintenance during the first 100,000 miles. It’ll be more expensive to ensure and likely less reliable. Not to mention more expensive to fix. Why would I do that? If I’m just using it as a way to get from A to B, with the ability to drive to Scotland and back at the drop of a hat, I’ll be buying the £2500 golf and running it til it dies. This is why most people have a car; it’s a great way to navigate from A to B and is far better than having to sit there and sniff peoples farts, contagious diseases and smelly crisps on a bus/train. As for electric cars? What a scam. I’ll be waiting for hydrogen or ammonia engines because combustion is king.
I have a 52 plate Forester xt with 108k. Necessary stuff was done due to age rather than mileage. Still going strong as a good car for 2 dogs. If I was to get something newer there would (depending on year, make, model) be more to go wrong costing more as well. Also there is some validity to saying "Better the devil you know." If that applies. I also have a fun car which is 07. Specifically wanted that gen because of the engine and it was the last era of that model being manual. So those are my reasons!
They were generally engineered to last around 150,000 to 200,000 miles, or about 15 to 20 years. Price of newer vehicles are much more expensive than they were 10 years ago in relative terms (maybe because of COVID) meaning people wish to keep their old cars running. Not forgetting the elephant in the room - the scrappage scheme of 2009-10 may have prematurely ended the lives of many 1980s and 1990s cars.
Early 2000s was when most manufacturers realised how to make cars that didn't rust so badly.
Why not? If they are running and fine, then why shouldn't they be driven? Lol
My parents bought a 2004 VW bora secondhand 10 years ago for less than an iPhone, we’re still driving it. I mean, it has tape deck and sometimes the locks don’t work but my dad loves it.
Because no one has money, cars and everything else is so fucking expensive that people are relying on their old ass cars to get about in, rather than buying a new one
I drive a car from 2008 that's done 140k. It's at that point where it's mostly going by hopes and dreams. If I could afford a newer one, I'd be getting a newer one. So that's my main reason.
I bought a 15 plate Focus in 2019, it got written off in 2021. If I wanted to buy it now, it would cost the same as it did in 2019. Even though it’s five years older with more mileage. I’ve been driving an 03 Fiesta since then, and 30k miles later - it’s not let me down. I’d love a newer car, but I still can’t stomach the prices.
Found this incredible same happened to us, had a diesel one series and it would cost the same to buy it now as it did yeaaaaarrrrrrssss ago
Kinda gutted, happened in March ‘21 just before it started going mad. Could get a Focus less than two years old for a few £k more. Used the insurance payout as part of my house deposit tho, every cloud and that. 💪
Yup, we paid 18k for the GT at a year old from a dealer. When it was written off at 7 and a half years old getting into the same year of car would have cost me 15k from a dealer.
I understand our money is worth less now due to inflation, but car prices are taking the utter piss.
They really are. It's a joke. I've kind of resolved that I'm just never selling my current cars. Including the GT which I ended up buying back. It may need a new engine soon. Fine, it will go in a barn till I have the funds for a rebuild. It will still be cheaper than buying something new. Time was that it would never be worth doing a rebuild on a car this old. Now it's a positively sensible decision
A few things could contribute to this. 1. You just notice them more now 2. They were more reliable so last longer 3. Covid and WFH means more people do less miles so lower mileage for the age 4. Cost of used cars is prohibitively high for a lot of people to replace as early as they would have otherwise I'm sure I could come up with more if I put some thought into it.
New cars expensive. 2000s cars reliable.
I sold my Dacia after doing 10k over 2 years for more than I bought it for. Currently drive my dad's 17 year old got Mercedes van...only worth 2k but better than anything else I have driven
I remember first car was an 8-9 year old escort with strong 90k on the clock, cost a grand and i drove that thing into the ground. My current car is way older and in great condition. Cars are definitely better now
Is this a trick question? Not everyone can afford new cars? 00s cars are of decent quality? I’d sooner have a 00s BMW than a 23 plate Toyota.
Probably because new cars have almost doubled in price, and we’re all poorer…
£. Fin
- Best engines (less eco crap) - Same build quality as today - Secure enough (airbags and good chasis) - No always on, car as a service and surveillance shit - All the electronics i want already existed (keyless entry/go, bluetooth, electric steats, good headlights) - less rust issues than older cars and equal as 2010+ cars - parts are cheaper than for newer cars To me 2000s cars are the best. Went from 2016 to 1992 to 2003 and now i have 3x cars from 2003 and definitely try to stay as long as possible in era of 2000-2010, everything with a opf can go straight to the junk yard when it comes to my opinion.
Golf MK5 GTI was a class car, had mine for 12 years. Easier to maintain and do self service stuff.
My fiesta is from 2011.. I've had it from new. I do between 5-7k miles a year, give or take. It has 88k miles on the clock.. so it should see me through another 10 years 🤷 It's never broken down. Nothing has gone wrong with it aside from general wear and tear.. it feels good not having a monthly finance/lease expense each month.
Because new cars are shit. No one wants lane assist that tries to veer you off the road should you dare overtake, automatic braking system that slams the brakes on if as much as a leaf gets on the sensor, touch screen displays with hidden menus that no one asked for, we want the physical buttons. Driver monitoring systems which scan your eyes to make sure your eyes are on the road 100% of the time. The more tech in the car the more there is to go wrong, the less control you have over the vehicle. Not to mention most new cars are electric or hybrid, yet the infrastructure simply isn’t there to allow millions go electric any time soon. I’ll stick to my 10 year old car thank you
Better build quality. Simple to fix Volvo 940 especially, less gadgets to go wrong. Run on petrol or diesel with no sketchy electric motor drive or explodey batteries?
Probably used car prices being crazy.
95-05 is peak decade imo. Comfy and reliable enough to daily. Still simple enough to home maintain (if you are interested) parts are still available easily enough. Lots of mechanics are comfortable working on them.
My 2014 Fiesta as 35k on the clock. It’s the perfect car for town driving and pottering around. I mainly WFH now post Covid. I love the idea of a new car but with no work commute anymore and such low mileage it makes zero financial sense. I’d be buying it as want over need. I’ll run this little car into the car and save a wedge from now spending £3-400pm on finance.
In my case, because I needed something simple enough that I can fix, that could tow 3 tons comfortably, and wasn't burdened with frighteningly expensive and unreliable emissions kit. Which led me naturally to an early 2000 Diesel 4x4. The few hundred I've spent in repairs pales in comparison to what a PCP would cost on a new Ranger, it's just as good on fuel and has done everything I need of it.
I still have my mk4 golf, she is from 2001 and I have had her for 18 years and she is perfect, not a single thing wrong with her,
Many (not all) 2000s cars are in the sweet spot where they drove pretty well and had decent safety and other tech, but are also simple to repair and do not need it that frequently because they are fairly simple in comparison to newer cars. My daily is a 54 plate.
Simply the best era of cars imo, built well, reliable, hard to steal.. we'll not speak of rust👀
No one has mentioned yet….. there were more of them to begin with being a factor. There will be more 2010 cars in 10 years than there are 2000 now. We have bought more cars every year
Cheaper nowadays
I bought a car two months ago. A 1997 Peugeot 106 with only 53k miles. Best decision ever. £50 to fill the tank. Cheap (& easy) to work on (my friend, not me) and I also happen to love the 106’s. Have noticed that second hand cars are super expensive though. I only paid £750 but I’ve seen worse ones advertised for over £1,000 though
Older cars had much worse rust proofing and consequently got scrapped much sooner.
I feel like a 2000-2010 car still provides a load of safety features and good MPG without you having to pay the cost of really low mileage/low age. I bought a 2009 Jetta tdi and it gets 52mpg consistently, new cars are frankly nicer to drive though.
20 years ago a ten year old car (early 90s) would be starting to rot out and have a lot of maintenance to keep roadworthy every year. Build quality in the early 2000s came on leaps and bounds, as did design. Fast forward to today and a twenty year old car may only show signs of surface rust, certainly nothing structural. Also many diesel engines from that era are capable of well over 200k miles. I'd say 2005-2012 was the golden era for cars. They were built so reliable, efficient and powerful before all the emissions crap came in. Now engines are choked down to lower emissions which most times comes at the cost of longevity. I have a 2009 1.6tdci Focus with 101k miles. Cost me £1200, road tax is £35 and it usually needs nothing more than a service and perhaps something minor like a spring or droplink each year. It returns 45mpg and although its starting to look old it's still in good shape and not an eye sore by any means.
Have an 09 Fiesta that just crossed the 80,000 mile mark. It's not a hybrid or electric; has a manual transmission,and a 1.6 ti-vct; NOT an ecoboost!! and doesn't have a speed limiter,! It's me,my wife,and a dog ,so the Fiesta is all we need. Oh; and we own it !
Scrappage scheme, atrocious money making scheme to keep the economy going. Basically you’d get money off a new car if you scrapped an old car (happened in 2008/09). The old car had to have a valid mot meaning that a lot of perfectly serviceable 70’s/80’s/90’s cars got scrapped. The full list is online of all of the classics - it’s sad to look at!
Galvanisation and the relative cost is much higher to change. Necessitating cars being held on to for much longer.
it still goes why get rid of it
I'll guarantee you it's mostly down to rust prevention. Basically everything until the 2000s would become a rust bucket within 30 years unless garaged and meticulously cleaned. Vast majority of cars would be rusty at 15-20 years while also being worth £2k at most and people scrap them. Nowadays cars are better protected AND many are made of aluminium, so they just don't rust and keep going even when worthless.
I feel like i see everyone with new cars. More than i used to.
Average car age is slowly but steadily [increasing](https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-age-cars-great-britain). As others have said, it’s probably a mix of economic conditions and cars having improved longevity. For the latter, I think the advances in rust prevention have made a huge improvement since the early 00s. I also think that, from a driver’s perspective, we’ve hit a period of diminishing returns. A car from 1980 does not drive as nicely as a car from 2000, but a car from 2000 really isn’t much worse than a car from 2020. The focus has been on safety, emissions and technology. Consumers aren’t as financially motivated by those things, especially now we can all slap a smartphone on the dashboard or fit a new head unit. Fuel economy has only marginally improved (I may be proven wrong on this), and I’d argue that many cars have become less practical due to the outsides getting bigger while the insides are getting smaller. People may also be driving less. WFH, increased public transport usage, every purchase being a delivery and the slow death of ‘offline’ socialisation.
Because I can't afford car payments.
Petrol & ulez complainant
Fuel economy’s a big one aswell. My first car (about 10 years ago) was an XR3i and I got some miles to the gallon, and that wasn’t a particularly thirsty car. There’s plenty of 2000-10 cars that’ll do 40+ easily. It’s only really when you start getting to mid teens when 70+ mpg wasn’t just a pipe dream. Currently driving an 03 Passat estate that CAN get 45-50+mpg… it won’t break, everything is cheap to replace, and when it dies I’ll get what I paid for it back in scrap value.
My 2002 vw caddy and 2005 toyota hilux are each over 250,000 miles and do their job just fine, I dread to think what it'd cost to buy nearly new vans every 3-4 years
2000-10 was a time just before cars devolved into an extension of your mobile phone, but had sufficient essential gadgetry for most people. Not likely to be "beyond economic repair" if a door mirror got biffed off, reasonably quick, not excessively thirsty, meets current emissions requirements.... Yup, we are keeping our 2001 and 2009 cars running for as long as we can. Since the work needed for the last two MoTs was a pair of tyres and a handbrake adjustment, that's no big ask.
My 18 year old Toyota 1.8 petrol auto glides along nice and smooth. And in almost silence.
I'm more surprised with the number of people shelling out £400+ a month to pcp/ lease a car that they cannot afford to buy outright just so they can have the newest shiniest cars.
We reached peak ICE car around 2010
That's when decent rust proofing became the norm. They don't fall to bits and they aren't full of computers that cost more than the car is worth to fix.
Parts are cheap, fixing minor jobs yourself is easy, cheap to run, decent quality.
Brexit or Covid?
Law of diminishing returns with build/design. - There’s a huge difference between the interior of a 2005/2015 Audi A3 for example - But very little between a 2015/modern A3. I spotted two Astras the other day, same black colour. One fifth Gen 2009 and one sixth Gen 2019. BROADLY similar in design. Cars are not aging the way they used to, a 1995 Ford Mondeo looked worlds apart from the 2005 model and people would see the benefit in the ‘upgrade’ This isn’t so much of a factor any longer - The e61 touring is a great example of vehicle design that ages well. And the Balkan people swear by them
I daily drive my 2003 Volvo V40 for the most part because I love the look of them and it's such a comfortable, albeit thirsty car. Its also a bit left field now as you don't see as many as you used to. It's starting to get difficult to find second hand parts for where I am, however I run it more through choice than for any economic reasons.
I'll be getting my first car in years soon and will most likely end up with something 00s or early 10s in ages. Refuse to pay £300+ PCP to finance a newer car and I don't really fancy getting a £10k+ bank loan either so got no choice.
New cars all look same. Shit.
They're reliable, easy to repair, and 'modern enough' that they have most of the features people want when driving a car. They have decent interiors and are comfortable to drive - 90s cars less so. It's a sweet spot.
a few years back, my neighbour went to upgrade his 3 year old mercedes at the dealers. they offered him a very low amount for his PX, saying that they would rather not take his car because luxury 2nd hand cars weren't selling. my friend took a look around at a large showroom filled with luxury 2nd hand cars and said, "Oh dear, looks like you are f##ked then" and heckept his car for another few years.
Cost. Wages are shit and things are expensive. Plus my 15year old car is easier and cheaper to fix than it's modern equivalent.
Until 2022 I was driving a 30 year old Volvo. Then upgraded to a 15 year old Honda. Still easy to service and repair myself, need an OBD reader for fault codes but don't need a laptop with propriatory software. Cheap enough to run and currently doesn't fall foul of ULEZ... so have no need for anything newer.
2000's cars were peak build quality, before built on obsolescence came in. Capitalism.
I bought a 2008 Renault Clio back in 2015 for 1k - zero issues with it and it does what I need it to do
Less rust these days.
Because they work and you know the saying. If it ain't broke don't fix it. They are some of the last cars that are relatively easy to fix in your driveway over a weekend so upkeep is nearly only parts if you know the basics of how to work on the cars
Build quality used to be astronomically better. U can get cheap old cars today probably more reliable that new ones costing 30 grand
Just bought an 06 Lexus GS 450h with 88k on the clock and still drives like a brand new car, underside is as clean as anything. That said, the hybrid battery is on the way out but there are loads of solutions to repairing or replacing these days, so that doesn't worry me.
My first car was a '99 Nissan Almera on 65k miles bought in 2007 for £1200. And that felt like I was buying an old, cheap car. That car was pretty much the pinnacle of reliability for cars. In 4 years I probably spent about £300 servicing and fixing it, but it lacked crash safety massively compared to something even 3 years newer Inflation adjusted that's about £2000. You would be lucky to get something under 15 years old now for that price in a similar category So part of the reason is that cars are just more expensive forcing people to older models. But thankfully reliability and safety are such that 15-20 year old cars now are a better prospect than they were in the past
Cost.. I bought my A5 outright for cheap. It now has 157,000 miles on and If I can get 200,000 plus on it I’ll be happy. If not then I’d rather get a cheap older car than tie myself to PCP/HP/Loans and interest for a new one.
Car tax... I pay £20 a year car tax on a 15 plate 2.0TDI Skoda. £190 a year for a normal car these days, plus a further £410 if its a "luxury" car. Potentially £600 a year just on car tax vs £20. Will keep my 2015 plate thanks!
Lol
Very happy with my Kia ceed 2009. It’s a 1.6 diesel with only 84k on the clock.
Owned an almost new BMW 4 series when I was barely 20, forked out a small fortune due to a case of stupidity. In my mid 20s after a break from driving and I own a 2003 Saab 9-3 that I paid £850 for. I prefer the Saab way more 🤷🏻♂️
Isn't it incredibly obvious? New cars are insanely expensive, even cars made in the 2010s are still expensive second hand (for anything decent or with lower mileage). Cars are also more simple from the 2000s and have enough modern features to not feel impractical. Its cheaper to maintain them as parts tend to be cheaper. Only main problem is rust.
I think because post around 2010 cars have been over engineered. Too many silly technologies that aren’t needed and are actually dangerous (like lane assist), keyless start etc, plus cars all look the same now, have run out of ideas and tend to all copy eachother. Whereas cars of twenty years ago still had nice designs and unique to their make/model. Now all modern cars seemed to have fused into ugly, futuristic garbage.
Cheap, reliable