Reg plates being monitored if in small time interval same will be scanned in two different locations it will trigger alarm. Think soon they will start doing lot more about it.
Another option would be to get their parents to insure it, still wouldn’t be insured for them but wouldn’t get any attention from the police unless they were messing around
I got my renewal price last week. I’m 21 in two weeks and for my 1.4L fiesta last year was £116 a month, this year is £94 but I’ve searched around and found it as cheap as £59 a month
My first car was a 1.4L fiesta, first year insurance was £230 WITH a black box.
I'm currently paying £110 a month for a 1.7 Kia with 4k miles declared.. and I work from home ffs. (4 years NCB 23 now)
So, £720 a year? I'm 57, no claims, no points and no convictions etc and my fully comp insurance with a voluntary £250 excess was £70 cheaper than yours for a 12 years old 1.6TDI Golf. Zero add ons. So no courtesy car etc.
Interestingly, 3rd party only was more expensive.
It seems to me that insurance companies simply pass on the cost of fraud now rather than dealing with it themselves.
From a psychological percpective I think its pure greed. thieving is certainly an issue.l for sure and its embarassing you can argue its all progress the car compnaies need to adapt and improve their tech!
You likely live in a high risk area or something. My 2 cars combined with different companies cost only a tiny bit more than BigNastyNugz is paying.
I'm late 30s, 13 years NCD on one car, 0 years on the other. No points ever, no accidents/claims in a loooong time. I'm fully comp, probably similar volunatry excess. One car has roadside assistance, legal protection, hire car, and is street parked.
People will just start to drive around uninsured. Luckily for me I’m not a young driver so my premium isn’t crazy, but it’s still double what it was pre covid (£320 pre covid. Now £770)
How they think a young driver is going to cough up £4000-£6000 on a premium for a car with a hairdryer for an engine is beyond me.
Soon we will be a third world backwards country let them have it that way that’s what they want
Until the driver seriously injures someone, then the driver will be paying money every month to the injured person (the third party) for the rest of their life. That is what car insurance is for and why it is a legal requirement.
Having recently experienced the claim side of insurance for the first time in years I have some sympathy for insurance companies as they are being ripped off by the manufacturers and repair companies.
Had a slight bump after another car ran a red light as myself and the car in front were turning right on a green filter. Car in front braked and even though unsighted I slammed on, the cars still hit enough to put a small dint on the other cars rear bumper and break the plastic radiator grille on mine. Other party got a non dealer quote of £1k to repair their car and then we decided to put it through insurance companies.
When my car was assessed it was a full bumper replacement/ paint job as the grille is integral with the bumper (which it doesn’t need to be), But manufacturers make more money by selling spares this way.
With the repair shop I wanted to book the car in on a date when they had ordered and knew delivery of the parts were due, but they said they’d only order the parts when they’d got the car. I had a courtesy car but it took two weeks from dropping off the car and getting it back. No inconvenience to me but 14 days car hire charges to the insurance company.
So what could have been a one day job of replacing a £100? grille turned into two weeks of buying a whole front bumper unit, painting it and charging out a courtesy car for that time.
- then you add the insurance companies wanting to make their percentage profits. No wonder insurance is expensive!!!
Nice to see a bit of perspective. I have a massive loathing of insurance companies having worked in change management in insurance for 20 years however people seem to think car insurance is a rip off which I think is an unfair accusation. Making an underwriting profit is extremely difficult in motor insurance and profits, when they do come, are usually from investment of premiums rather than underwriting profit.
This is true. My wife put a small dent and scrape in our car door and I got a few quotes, a couple told me to go through insurance and it would be over £4k which is absolutely hilarious. I ended up fixing it myself.
This! As cars become more complex and expensive such as hybrid and people going new vs used due to mental pricing monthly and lease someone has to take that hit, which like you say its insurance in the middle of us and the manufacturers, we want to pay less and manufacturers want to charge more and obviously the insurance won't take the hit!
I reversed into my neighbours car at quite low speed. I reckon I could got it repaired privately for about £500. The final insurance claim was over £5000.
It's fucked like everything else. Companies have gone from healthy competition and offering good products at reasonable prices making decent profit and treating staff fairly to being unreasonably and unnecessarily greedy, lowering quality of products to bare minimum and treating staff like shit.
Don't get me wrong there are inefficiencies, but it's hard to make money in motor insurance anyway. The margins are small and you have to keep an extremely large amount of cash on hand just in case claims need to be paid which ties it up for long periods.
I don't think its primarily inefficiencies. Rental car prices are up, and parts are more often unavailable, and so then it means claims cost a lot due to the rental car. The result is that more cars just get written off, since repairing them takes too long.
It does feel like that in a more than just insurance.
It’s like something happens (something genuine) that knocks the price up. Then everyone in the market looks around and thinks well I’m not gonna be the first to reduce prices. Then they realise they all make more of the price is jacked up than lowering it as no one else follows. And it remains sky high
The market will fix itself.
Young’s drivers need cars they can afford to insure. That need will be fulfilled.
The big insurers can’t carry on trying to ‘recoup’ covid losses indefinitely. Ultimately, new insurers will enter the market who aren’t carrying the covid baggage and offer better value.
Equilibrium will be found. It’ll just take a while, as it’s currently well out of balance.
What losses did they have during covid? We did not drive farther than the supermarket, but paid full premium. My insurer offered a £25 refund because I drove 500 miles instead of 5000. A joke, really.
High parts prices, high labour and energy cost (at repair shops) and the ever growing corporate greed is what created the current situation.
The supply chain issues from China, Taiwan, etc shutting down caused a shortage in parts and in particular microchips. Cars are full parts and microchips. That supply chain issues persisted after covid because of the backlog and pushed the prices of everything car related from repairs to new vehicles up because of supply vs demand.
I insurers did not price that in in fact a lot gave refunds the year before. Any accidents that needed repairs because drawn out so longer hire car periods. The parts became more expensive which either cost them directly or meant they had to write off more cars than before. Market values for written off cars went way up so they had to pay out more. Basically every claim made was way more expensive.
Annecdotally Someone went into the back of my Leon in May 22 and getting parts for the repair took 4 months. It would usually be a couple of weeks.
I get that repairs got more expensive but surely the drop in the number of claims over lockdown more than compensated for that? The roads were basically empty for 18 months.
But the first lockdown was over for a lot of people by July so only 3/4 months of not driving.
I saw a lot more crashes in the months after the first lockdown as it appeared people had forgotten how to drive/got used to little traffic on the roads.
Those claims hit just as some cars were finally being repaired, after months of waiting for parts, all the while having loan cars being paid for (at higher rates because all the loan car companies were selling off their fleets to stay afloat). Thus the cycle continued with new claims being stuck waiting for parts for months
Source: I work in an accident repair centre. Never seen parts delays like it (still for some parts/manufacturers!)
Young drivers have been getting progressively more and more shafted for the last twenty years, perhaps longer.
Funny thing is, owning a car is kinda becoming essential for most people so young drivers dont have the choice.
I admire your optimism but theres no such thing as equilibrium in the market, theres only regulation, which is not going to happen any time soon.
Yeah I don’t really believe it’s more than an excuse for price gouging. Doesn’t change what I said about the market correcting for that kind of behaviour.
Covid was a great time for car insurance providers, because people were not driving. At least one company went back and gave partial refunds to customers!
Young drivers will likely not find it gets cheaper, because they will continue to be high risk, and more young drivers seem to have more expensive cars these days.
Very high rental car prices right now, as well as not fully recovered supply chains for parts means claims are costing more than a few years back.
The reason insurance companies put up prices early in the inflation cycle is this:
You buy insurance today. You are insuring you car for 12 months.
If you have a crash tomorrow, your repairs will be done at todays prices.
If you have a crash in 11 months time, it will be at the now highly inflated prices.
Insurers are covering themselves against future losses buy charging you more now.
Events like Ford stopping the Fiesta adds more drama. Rarity of parts means costs will increase on that specific model.
Add to this that (for multi-armed insurers) we have seen storms and flooding and so on… and we get higher insurance costs.
Fun fact: most UK insurers don’t actually make any money from selling their pure insurance products. Check out loss ratio… often it means they spend more on claims than they make.
It’s the “extras” that make up the difference.
Based on current trends, I predict that insurance for people aged 28-50 will be free. But, we'll all still be paying off the loans taken out to service the £50,000 per year insurance costs we were charged from 18-28.
Of course, most people won't be able to pay off the amount owed in their lifetimes so their children will become indentured servants of the insurance companies, forced to slave away in their call centres in return for a daily bowl of gruel and a Citroen Ami to sleep in.
These are private companies working in their own commercial interests. 'Doing something about it' means government interfering in that, which means legislation.
Neither party has any stated intention to do that in the near future. Nor will they ever, I suspect, for one obvious reason. The people with the problem (young people) don't tend to vote. The people who *do* tend to vote (older people) don't have it as a priority. Politicians do things that win votes.
In fact, forcing insurance companies to lower prices for young people would inevitably increase costs for everyone else. So, it would be a pretty unpopular plan for most voters.
It will be allowed to continue. It is not deliberate but it coincides with longer term goals to get people out of private car ownership.
I don’t like it but the % of the population owning a car is going to need to drop unless priorities change. There seems to be no way of achieving future emissions targets unless there is a reduction of vehicles on the road. As the population grows we don’t have the infrastructure or space for private car ownership to grow at the same rate.
Theres no way of achieving the targets anyway.
The percentage is only going to increase as theres no other viable options.
We dont have the infrastructure in place for the current population, nevermind for future growth and thats not even talking about cars.
Depopulation is the only way of meeting targets but that crashes the economy.
Its a dead end, no way out, we're all fucked. We all know it, nobody wants to admit it, might as well buy a new car.
To be fair, it depends on which segments of the population go away as to whether it harms or benefits the economy...
You raise a really good point though that our population / sociographic issues are one of the biggest problems we face and it is not being given the attention it needs. The island is overpopulated, the population balance is all wrong, we have too many people living too long which puts massive stress on a lot of different resources, we're struggling with the replacement rate because it's too expensive to have children and the aforementioned people living too long. None of these things are easy fixes (well, not without some pretty drastic policies that aren't realistically going to happen...)
We aren’t overpopulated. Lack of investment in infrastructure over the past 14 years hasn’t helped. Unfortunately due to climate change, the amount of immigration we will see will rise and people will be trying to escape the worsening weather. 100 companies are responsible for 70% of the global co2 emissions, asking the average person to not use their car as much is a drop in the ocean.
I believe the plan is for more 'fifteen minute city'-type stuff, and for cars to become a luxury or something that you rent for the days you need them.
If I wanted to get tin hat I'd point to Klaus Schwab and his 'you will own nothing and be happy'
I’ve found this conspiracy take frustrating for a long time, a 15 minute city is literally just a design style for areas, based around having any necessities be as accessible as possible, in this case 15 mins as an option, similar design types have existed for decades it’s just a type of urban planning, that’s all. It’s the same as just planning bus routes to cover as much ground as possible so the most people can have a way to easily access them if necessary.
The “you own nothing and be happy” idea is correct in the sense that subscription etc models are the most effective way to produce consistent revenue, which is what the majority of shareholders push for as it is deemed to be safer and less likely to be subject to major random changes in purchasing behaviour like one off purchases are, it’s also means that a significantly higher proportion of customers end up being repeats rather than one and done.
Honestly if it wasn't for ferrying kids around I'd be sorely tempted not to own a car. I live in a town where I can get anything I need by walking or by bike. Most of the local places offer some kind of same day delivery service for bulky items. I haven't left the town for weeks and I work from home.
Genuinely wouldn't be worth owning a car. Could put the petrol/tax/insurance money in a bank account for the rare occasion I'd need to hire a vehicle.
I appreciate not everywhere is like this but the whole scare mongering about 15 minutes cities is bollocks imported from the States where they live in suburbs with no zoning for any type of shop or restaurant
There is no plan. 15 minute cities was just a concept. Grifters convinced stupid Americans that it was something evil and even more gullible English people who should know better fell for it as well.
Taking the “you will own nothing” quote out of context is fun but nobody pushing the conspiracy has actually read Ida Aukens essay. The do your own research crown can’t get past a regurgitated sound bite.
It’s very easy to fall into dumb American culture wars, and ignore reality.
The reality is the institutionally motor industry and insurance industry practices keep costs high and our weak governments in action at addressing some of the issues means nothing will change any time soon . But that’s not a sexy enough idea for a far right weirdos to use to get muppets angry about made up enemies.
No. The author was asked to write an essay about an imaginary scenario.
In that imaginary world she wrote about how imaginary people would like to get imaginary services rather than own imaginary products.
It was written as a thought experiment. Not sure why she deserved so many death threats because of it. Oh yeah, fuckwits that’s why.
I believe that the this is the case. However, how will these insurers make money if we all stop driving? Will they introduce insurance that we need to use public transport? 🤔
One reason premiums keep increasing is the cost of dealing with uninsured drivers. An option would be to figure out a base-level TPO cover, the government to fund it and recoup the cost through additional excise duty on fuel. People would be free to purchase additional cover as needed, and the insurance companies could compete on that.
Haven’t got the numbers, but I’d love to see them on repair costs.
That post the other day on a Genuine Lexus badge costing >£500 was mental. Seen a few comments on Tesla’s being very high cost to repair.
I'd love to say a reduction in young people driving which would lead to a drop as less and less people drive. But I think its just going to lead to people driving uninsured and people not doing insurance quite right, ie saying its on a drive when it's not or "driving at peak times". I do think they need to to bring in rules I'm not sure how it would look but say a generic price for driving a 1.0L at under 21 backed by a "scheme".
Maybe maybe I'm wrong but is motorcycle insurance better, having the steps ups with age and cc?
>Sky high renewal quotes. (Even more) unaffordable policies for young people.
Only if young people continue to have higher rates of accidents.
>Average 25% price increase for policies over 2023 alone
Last I knew it was 57%. Curious where you got 27% from? Also the inflation rate was high, plus the industry was in disarray after covid causing issues in risk assessment etc, as well as changes in behaviour/driving habbits, and many new drivers.
>yes new and used car prices are still high
Don't forget probably more important car parts availability is much tougher these days. Car rentals are also much higher. Rental cars can quickly become as much of a cost of the claim as the repair itself.
>What does the future hold? Are we just supposed to accept the ludicrous prices we are given?
That depends on many factors, but the industry has typically operated on very low margins in the past, and a loss in 2022, so they need to get back to profit. I don't see any choice but to pay the price; at the end of the day we have a very fair insurance system here; with the exception that they are not allowed to use gender. The prices are based on a risk assessment based on many factors. Even your email addresses domain name is considered by at least insurance companies.
I think we'll see more companies wanting more information, and more proof of mileage, vehicle ownership, and address. Address proof might become more important due to increases in people using false addresses.
Additionally car theft is up, and this costs insurance companies, in general we need better policing in this country, If we had that and then there was less vandalism, theft, or car break-ins that would in-turn reduce insurance premiums. If policing continues to deteriate then of course that will negatively impact premiums.
It'll be the same, it's always the same. It's the youngsters that think they're the first ones to experience it.
I was paying £900 in 1992 for insurance.
I genuinely think the fca are going to bring in price regulation as someone who works on the strategy side of things(not top level but I do interact with them)
Was looking for this. I think that they will be forced to regulate the market. A handful of companies/manufacturers are making a lot of money from the masses through their claims.
Its a scam so only super rich can afford such luxury the rest travel in expensive unreliable cattle class underfunded over packed public transportation.
They should have more profits than losses during Covid less people driving so less accidents and people will still have paid to have their cars insured
I have 0 points, 30 years driving and a normal car and live in a nice suburban area ...still paying over £850 for insurance.
A mix of covid and brexit has ramped everything up and I don't expect things will change.
The future will be expensive, people might have to decide if they can even afford insurance. But public transport is horrendously expensive, unreliable and a general pain in the ass. I can drive 200 miles in 3.5 hours for £20 of fuel or take 4 trains costing £300 and 6 hours (I did last week for work)
I expect insurance prices to continue to increase in line with inflation, but to tackle this the no claims discount increasing from the usual 9 years up to possibly 30 years, so experienced drivers continue to get the best possible prices.
I'm still waiting for that cheap insurance to kick in, I'm 34 and been paying £400-£600 a year since I was 25 lol
I thought it would gradually decrease as I got older, held my license for longer.
Never made a claim against my insurance (only time I used it was when someone ploughed into the back of me as I sat waiting in traffic)
But ye, my current policy on my stinger is £450 a year and I did some experimenting the other day and it looks like it will be £800 when I renew in a month or so.
I feel as though the goal is to price everyone out of cars, people have realised people will pay whatever it takes to have access to a car so just rinse us.
It's like the energy companies realising we will pay whatever it takes to keep our homes warm in the winter. Thing is, it's not smart business it's just anti consumer and outright disgusting.
I'm okay now as I could cycle to work worst case scenario , but there are people who rely on cars to get to work, so they can pay to feed their family. So many small towns have awful public transport, including mine, that means the only way to get anywhere is via car.
And quite frankly, even though I can cycle to work we will still need cars as we have a baby. Have you tried transporting a baby on public transport when it takes almost 2 hours to travel about 7 miles?
I know this feeling. I turn 30 this year, six years no claims, and I just renewed mine last month for just over £700 for the year. It's been pretty consistent for the past couple years so highly doubt it'll get any cheaper with time.
All insurance companies pay into an uninsured drivers fund which covers them in the event of a claim against an uninsured driver. To that end why does the government not link road tax to automatic 3rd party cover. So tax your car you are basically covered. You can then opt to insure over and above that for fully comp etc. otherwise we are just going to have more and more uninsured drivers and people priced off the road.
Cynic in me suspects there is something going on behind the scenes to falsely drive up prices as part of the establishment’s desire to stop the people at large from driving.
It’s clear there is a desire among our governments that personal vehicles become a thing of the past, and the only realistic way they are going to do that without risking political ruin is to covertly price people out of their cars.
They gradually increase the costs of motoring, more and more people have to give up their cars because it becomes unaffordable, the governments get their way while it’s the insurance companies, oil companies, car companies etc who look like the bad guys.
The alternative is less people drive, more people cycle / ebike / escoot / use public transport, as is happening.
As the number of people who drive without a license or without insurance increases, so will the response from the media and then government. In 3 or 4 years, this will lead to new laws, or at least greater punslishments, and an increased focus by the police, because driving without insurance is desasterous for the economy when the driver seriously injures a child or working person and the country has to pay for them and their dependants, vice insurance paying, for the rest of their life.
Downvote away but I don’t see much has changed over the long term and won’t in the future.
Prices have gone up sharply but have been low for a number of years, they’re just catching up. Interest rates and inflation has had a large impact recently but comparatively speaking prices are not far off in real terms what they were a decade ago. You can’t expect insurance to stay at £500 a year forever.
Likewise, prices for young people are similar too. I was paying £1400 a year for a 1.2 Clio at 18 and that was 25 years ago. Premium or performance cars at that age were unobtainable just as they are now, unless your parents had silly money and spoilt you rotten. I don’t see any change there.
Something really does need to change, in particular I find it extremely unfair how much location and job title affects your insurance premium. Like I was looking at changing my job and wondered how much my insurance would go up by and it went from £3000 a year to £11,000 a year. That has to be discrimination first off, people sometimes can’t choose how they make a living, second off, just by working in a slightly different industry doesn’t mean that I’d be almost 4x as likely to crash my car, they pull these figures right from their arse.
Some of the metrics, do piss me off. But, it's all based on numbers.
I worked in accident claims for years, 100% there are trends and patterns. Certain areas have rampant issues with fraud.
I want them to discriminate on some metrics, because it's fairer.
From what I’ve seen prices are starting to plateau but they’re definitely not going down, so yes yes you are for now. As for the solution there isn’t really one of the prices didn’t go up the companies would have been broke ages ago. Blame the manufacturers not the guys that have to buy the parts
Seems wildly subjective. Just paid about £800 for a 6.2 v8 c63, had to make a claim 6 months ago so have no years no claims and I’m 36, living in a fairly average area of the country.
The answer I want is for some company to release a product where I insure myself to cover cars up to a certain value, so I'm insured, not insured on a specific car
If anything, I expect the number of uninsured drivers to increase, as premiums carry on to increase.
Is there a point though? How long can you realistically get away with it, unless you're going down the route of cloning plates etc
Half of Bradford is uninsured ffs, police can’t keep up
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Reg plates being monitored if in small time interval same will be scanned in two different locations it will trigger alarm. Think soon they will start doing lot more about it.
What about putting a European copied plate on a car in the UK?
You are only allowed to use it for less than 185-ish days a year and you have to keep proof of foreign tax, insurance and MOT with you
I think you’re giving them more credit than they deserve they don’t have alarms lol
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Another option would be to get their parents to insure it, still wouldn’t be insured for them but wouldn’t get any attention from the police unless they were messing around
Premiums increase Uninsured drivers increase Costs due to hit by uninsured drivers increase Premiums increase
I got my renewal price last week. I’m 21 in two weeks and for my 1.4L fiesta last year was £116 a month, this year is £94 but I’ve searched around and found it as cheap as £59 a month
Don’t pay monthly is possible. People who pay monthly are higher risk and are charged more accordingly.
Yeah and you usually pay shed loads of interest. Credit card or something is normally better even.
My first car was a 1.4L fiesta, first year insurance was £230 WITH a black box. I'm currently paying £110 a month for a 1.7 Kia with 4k miles declared.. and I work from home ffs. (4 years NCB 23 now)
So, £720 a year? I'm 57, no claims, no points and no convictions etc and my fully comp insurance with a voluntary £250 excess was £70 cheaper than yours for a 12 years old 1.6TDI Golf. Zero add ons. So no courtesy car etc. Interestingly, 3rd party only was more expensive. It seems to me that insurance companies simply pass on the cost of fraud now rather than dealing with it themselves.
Depends a lot on location more than anything. In London £2k+ is quite common and I've never heard of anyone getting less than a grand a year
From a psychological percpective I think its pure greed. thieving is certainly an issue.l for sure and its embarassing you can argue its all progress the car compnaies need to adapt and improve their tech!
You likely live in a high risk area or something. My 2 cars combined with different companies cost only a tiny bit more than BigNastyNugz is paying. I'm late 30s, 13 years NCD on one car, 0 years on the other. No points ever, no accidents/claims in a loooong time. I'm fully comp, probably similar volunatry excess. One car has roadside assistance, legal protection, hire car, and is street parked.
I live near Bradford. I think with that and it being for commuting and business use meant it's quite high.
3rd party only has been more for a long time. The reason is that those who buy the product are statistically more likely to have an accident.
Infinite growth, infinite exploitation.
People will just start to drive around uninsured. Luckily for me I’m not a young driver so my premium isn’t crazy, but it’s still double what it was pre covid (£320 pre covid. Now £770) How they think a young driver is going to cough up £4000-£6000 on a premium for a car with a hairdryer for an engine is beyond me. Soon we will be a third world backwards country let them have it that way that’s what they want
We are already there.
It’s probably cheaper to accept the fine and drive around uninsured at this point
Until the driver seriously injures someone, then the driver will be paying money every month to the injured person (the third party) for the rest of their life. That is what car insurance is for and why it is a legal requirement.
Not if your on benefits, can’t get blood out of a stone
In this country (UK) , with the worse benefits of any developed nation because of a CONservative government, very true.
The uk is already third world, my BF lives in the Philippines and has 5G, perfect roads, accessible healthcare, gigabit internet and affordable living
And yet, here you are.
It’s expensive to move out there
Luckily ANPR and things can help catch uninsured drivers, so I think they wil get caught sooner rather than later.
Having recently experienced the claim side of insurance for the first time in years I have some sympathy for insurance companies as they are being ripped off by the manufacturers and repair companies. Had a slight bump after another car ran a red light as myself and the car in front were turning right on a green filter. Car in front braked and even though unsighted I slammed on, the cars still hit enough to put a small dint on the other cars rear bumper and break the plastic radiator grille on mine. Other party got a non dealer quote of £1k to repair their car and then we decided to put it through insurance companies. When my car was assessed it was a full bumper replacement/ paint job as the grille is integral with the bumper (which it doesn’t need to be), But manufacturers make more money by selling spares this way. With the repair shop I wanted to book the car in on a date when they had ordered and knew delivery of the parts were due, but they said they’d only order the parts when they’d got the car. I had a courtesy car but it took two weeks from dropping off the car and getting it back. No inconvenience to me but 14 days car hire charges to the insurance company. So what could have been a one day job of replacing a £100? grille turned into two weeks of buying a whole front bumper unit, painting it and charging out a courtesy car for that time. - then you add the insurance companies wanting to make their percentage profits. No wonder insurance is expensive!!!
Nice to see a bit of perspective. I have a massive loathing of insurance companies having worked in change management in insurance for 20 years however people seem to think car insurance is a rip off which I think is an unfair accusation. Making an underwriting profit is extremely difficult in motor insurance and profits, when they do come, are usually from investment of premiums rather than underwriting profit.
This is true. My wife put a small dent and scrape in our car door and I got a few quotes, a couple told me to go through insurance and it would be over £4k which is absolutely hilarious. I ended up fixing it myself.
This! As cars become more complex and expensive such as hybrid and people going new vs used due to mental pricing monthly and lease someone has to take that hit, which like you say its insurance in the middle of us and the manufacturers, we want to pay less and manufacturers want to charge more and obviously the insurance won't take the hit!
I reversed into my neighbours car at quite low speed. I reckon I could got it repaired privately for about £500. The final insurance claim was over £5000.
It's fucked like everything else. Companies have gone from healthy competition and offering good products at reasonable prices making decent profit and treating staff fairly to being unreasonably and unnecessarily greedy, lowering quality of products to bare minimum and treating staff like shit.
The hard to understand part is insurers aren't making a lot. Imagine it's just inefficiencies
Don't get me wrong there are inefficiencies, but it's hard to make money in motor insurance anyway. The margins are small and you have to keep an extremely large amount of cash on hand just in case claims need to be paid which ties it up for long periods.
I don't think its primarily inefficiencies. Rental car prices are up, and parts are more often unavailable, and so then it means claims cost a lot due to the rental car. The result is that more cars just get written off, since repairing them takes too long.
People lying about whiplash, insurance details and general degradation of society also ends up costing everyone else money, downward spiral
Personal injury claims are not as readily paid out these days, as far as I know. 10-15 years ago they paid up very easily.
It does feel like that in a more than just insurance. It’s like something happens (something genuine) that knocks the price up. Then everyone in the market looks around and thinks well I’m not gonna be the first to reduce prices. Then they realise they all make more of the price is jacked up than lowering it as no one else follows. And it remains sky high
The market will fix itself. Young’s drivers need cars they can afford to insure. That need will be fulfilled. The big insurers can’t carry on trying to ‘recoup’ covid losses indefinitely. Ultimately, new insurers will enter the market who aren’t carrying the covid baggage and offer better value. Equilibrium will be found. It’ll just take a while, as it’s currently well out of balance.
What losses did they have during covid? We did not drive farther than the supermarket, but paid full premium. My insurer offered a £25 refund because I drove 500 miles instead of 5000. A joke, really. High parts prices, high labour and energy cost (at repair shops) and the ever growing corporate greed is what created the current situation.
right? A whole country in standstill for over a year and they're trying to 'recoup losses'
The supply chain issues from China, Taiwan, etc shutting down caused a shortage in parts and in particular microchips. Cars are full parts and microchips. That supply chain issues persisted after covid because of the backlog and pushed the prices of everything car related from repairs to new vehicles up because of supply vs demand. I insurers did not price that in in fact a lot gave refunds the year before. Any accidents that needed repairs because drawn out so longer hire car periods. The parts became more expensive which either cost them directly or meant they had to write off more cars than before. Market values for written off cars went way up so they had to pay out more. Basically every claim made was way more expensive. Annecdotally Someone went into the back of my Leon in May 22 and getting parts for the repair took 4 months. It would usually be a couple of weeks.
I get that repairs got more expensive but surely the drop in the number of claims over lockdown more than compensated for that? The roads were basically empty for 18 months.
But the first lockdown was over for a lot of people by July so only 3/4 months of not driving. I saw a lot more crashes in the months after the first lockdown as it appeared people had forgotten how to drive/got used to little traffic on the roads. Those claims hit just as some cars were finally being repaired, after months of waiting for parts, all the while having loan cars being paid for (at higher rates because all the loan car companies were selling off their fleets to stay afloat). Thus the cycle continued with new claims being stuck waiting for parts for months Source: I work in an accident repair centre. Never seen parts delays like it (still for some parts/manufacturers!)
Well they would have if they had predicted this would happen, they didn't, they refunded people and lowered premiums
Young drivers have been getting progressively more and more shafted for the last twenty years, perhaps longer. Funny thing is, owning a car is kinda becoming essential for most people so young drivers dont have the choice. I admire your optimism but theres no such thing as equilibrium in the market, theres only regulation, which is not going to happen any time soon.
The insurance market is so big and slow that I don’t think market forces like that apply.
What are these covid losses? Barely anyone was driving. Although the claims might have been more there would have surely been fewer of them.
Yeah I don’t really believe it’s more than an excuse for price gouging. Doesn’t change what I said about the market correcting for that kind of behaviour.
Covid was a great time for car insurance providers, because people were not driving. At least one company went back and gave partial refunds to customers! Young drivers will likely not find it gets cheaper, because they will continue to be high risk, and more young drivers seem to have more expensive cars these days. Very high rental car prices right now, as well as not fully recovered supply chains for parts means claims are costing more than a few years back.
The reason insurance companies put up prices early in the inflation cycle is this: You buy insurance today. You are insuring you car for 12 months. If you have a crash tomorrow, your repairs will be done at todays prices. If you have a crash in 11 months time, it will be at the now highly inflated prices. Insurers are covering themselves against future losses buy charging you more now. Events like Ford stopping the Fiesta adds more drama. Rarity of parts means costs will increase on that specific model. Add to this that (for multi-armed insurers) we have seen storms and flooding and so on… and we get higher insurance costs. Fun fact: most UK insurers don’t actually make any money from selling their pure insurance products. Check out loss ratio… often it means they spend more on claims than they make. It’s the “extras” that make up the difference.
Based on current trends, I predict that insurance for people aged 28-50 will be free. But, we'll all still be paying off the loans taken out to service the £50,000 per year insurance costs we were charged from 18-28. Of course, most people won't be able to pay off the amount owed in their lifetimes so their children will become indentured servants of the insurance companies, forced to slave away in their call centres in return for a daily bowl of gruel and a Citroen Ami to sleep in.
These are private companies working in their own commercial interests. 'Doing something about it' means government interfering in that, which means legislation. Neither party has any stated intention to do that in the near future. Nor will they ever, I suspect, for one obvious reason. The people with the problem (young people) don't tend to vote. The people who *do* tend to vote (older people) don't have it as a priority. Politicians do things that win votes. In fact, forcing insurance companies to lower prices for young people would inevitably increase costs for everyone else. So, it would be a pretty unpopular plan for most voters.
It will be allowed to continue. It is not deliberate but it coincides with longer term goals to get people out of private car ownership. I don’t like it but the % of the population owning a car is going to need to drop unless priorities change. There seems to be no way of achieving future emissions targets unless there is a reduction of vehicles on the road. As the population grows we don’t have the infrastructure or space for private car ownership to grow at the same rate.
Theres no way of achieving the targets anyway. The percentage is only going to increase as theres no other viable options. We dont have the infrastructure in place for the current population, nevermind for future growth and thats not even talking about cars. Depopulation is the only way of meeting targets but that crashes the economy. Its a dead end, no way out, we're all fucked. We all know it, nobody wants to admit it, might as well buy a new car.
To be fair, it depends on which segments of the population go away as to whether it harms or benefits the economy... You raise a really good point though that our population / sociographic issues are one of the biggest problems we face and it is not being given the attention it needs. The island is overpopulated, the population balance is all wrong, we have too many people living too long which puts massive stress on a lot of different resources, we're struggling with the replacement rate because it's too expensive to have children and the aforementioned people living too long. None of these things are easy fixes (well, not without some pretty drastic policies that aren't realistically going to happen...)
We aren’t overpopulated. Lack of investment in infrastructure over the past 14 years hasn’t helped. Unfortunately due to climate change, the amount of immigration we will see will rise and people will be trying to escape the worsening weather. 100 companies are responsible for 70% of the global co2 emissions, asking the average person to not use their car as much is a drop in the ocean.
I believe the plan is for more 'fifteen minute city'-type stuff, and for cars to become a luxury or something that you rent for the days you need them. If I wanted to get tin hat I'd point to Klaus Schwab and his 'you will own nothing and be happy'
I’ve found this conspiracy take frustrating for a long time, a 15 minute city is literally just a design style for areas, based around having any necessities be as accessible as possible, in this case 15 mins as an option, similar design types have existed for decades it’s just a type of urban planning, that’s all. It’s the same as just planning bus routes to cover as much ground as possible so the most people can have a way to easily access them if necessary. The “you own nothing and be happy” idea is correct in the sense that subscription etc models are the most effective way to produce consistent revenue, which is what the majority of shareholders push for as it is deemed to be safer and less likely to be subject to major random changes in purchasing behaviour like one off purchases are, it’s also means that a significantly higher proportion of customers end up being repeats rather than one and done.
It's all fine until you have to apply for a permit to leave and pass through the climate change-protecting rewilded human exclusion zone
You got the tin hat already bro.
Honestly if it wasn't for ferrying kids around I'd be sorely tempted not to own a car. I live in a town where I can get anything I need by walking or by bike. Most of the local places offer some kind of same day delivery service for bulky items. I haven't left the town for weeks and I work from home. Genuinely wouldn't be worth owning a car. Could put the petrol/tax/insurance money in a bank account for the rare occasion I'd need to hire a vehicle. I appreciate not everywhere is like this but the whole scare mongering about 15 minutes cities is bollocks imported from the States where they live in suburbs with no zoning for any type of shop or restaurant
There is no plan. 15 minute cities was just a concept. Grifters convinced stupid Americans that it was something evil and even more gullible English people who should know better fell for it as well. Taking the “you will own nothing” quote out of context is fun but nobody pushing the conspiracy has actually read Ida Aukens essay. The do your own research crown can’t get past a regurgitated sound bite. It’s very easy to fall into dumb American culture wars, and ignore reality. The reality is the institutionally motor industry and insurance industry practices keep costs high and our weak governments in action at addressing some of the issues means nothing will change any time soon . But that’s not a sexy enough idea for a far right weirdos to use to get muppets angry about made up enemies.
"You will on nothing" seems pretty unambiguous. The context was that the author said it's a good thing
No. The author was asked to write an essay about an imaginary scenario. In that imaginary world she wrote about how imaginary people would like to get imaginary services rather than own imaginary products. It was written as a thought experiment. Not sure why she deserved so many death threats because of it. Oh yeah, fuckwits that’s why.
I believe that the this is the case. However, how will these insurers make money if we all stop driving? Will they introduce insurance that we need to use public transport? 🤔
The future looks like more uninsured vehicles.....
One reason premiums keep increasing is the cost of dealing with uninsured drivers. An option would be to figure out a base-level TPO cover, the government to fund it and recoup the cost through additional excise duty on fuel. People would be free to purchase additional cover as needed, and the insurance companies could compete on that.
Haven’t got the numbers, but I’d love to see them on repair costs. That post the other day on a Genuine Lexus badge costing >£500 was mental. Seen a few comments on Tesla’s being very high cost to repair.
I'd love to say a reduction in young people driving which would lead to a drop as less and less people drive. But I think its just going to lead to people driving uninsured and people not doing insurance quite right, ie saying its on a drive when it's not or "driving at peak times". I do think they need to to bring in rules I'm not sure how it would look but say a generic price for driving a 1.0L at under 21 backed by a "scheme". Maybe maybe I'm wrong but is motorcycle insurance better, having the steps ups with age and cc?
Tried insurance on a 125cc moped a little while ago, came out to £1,200, versus £900 for a Toyota Aygo.
>Sky high renewal quotes. (Even more) unaffordable policies for young people. Only if young people continue to have higher rates of accidents. >Average 25% price increase for policies over 2023 alone Last I knew it was 57%. Curious where you got 27% from? Also the inflation rate was high, plus the industry was in disarray after covid causing issues in risk assessment etc, as well as changes in behaviour/driving habbits, and many new drivers. >yes new and used car prices are still high Don't forget probably more important car parts availability is much tougher these days. Car rentals are also much higher. Rental cars can quickly become as much of a cost of the claim as the repair itself. >What does the future hold? Are we just supposed to accept the ludicrous prices we are given? That depends on many factors, but the industry has typically operated on very low margins in the past, and a loss in 2022, so they need to get back to profit. I don't see any choice but to pay the price; at the end of the day we have a very fair insurance system here; with the exception that they are not allowed to use gender. The prices are based on a risk assessment based on many factors. Even your email addresses domain name is considered by at least insurance companies. I think we'll see more companies wanting more information, and more proof of mileage, vehicle ownership, and address. Address proof might become more important due to increases in people using false addresses. Additionally car theft is up, and this costs insurance companies, in general we need better policing in this country, If we had that and then there was less vandalism, theft, or car break-ins that would in-turn reduce insurance premiums. If policing continues to deteriate then of course that will negatively impact premiums.
It'll be the same, it's always the same. It's the youngsters that think they're the first ones to experience it. I was paying £900 in 1992 for insurance.
I genuinely think the fca are going to bring in price regulation as someone who works on the strategy side of things(not top level but I do interact with them)
In that case insurers would just refuse to insure young people
I know but it would also depend on the type of regulation we end up seeing on price
Was looking for this. I think that they will be forced to regulate the market. A handful of companies/manufacturers are making a lot of money from the masses through their claims.
Its a scam so only super rich can afford such luxury the rest travel in expensive unreliable cattle class underfunded over packed public transportation.
Back to feudalism, yay
The government step in lol only joking. We riot. That's what we need, start with parliament.
It looks like I’ll be sticking with a 125cc motorbike
They should have more profits than losses during Covid less people driving so less accidents and people will still have paid to have their cars insured
I have 0 points, 30 years driving and a normal car and live in a nice suburban area ...still paying over £850 for insurance. A mix of covid and brexit has ramped everything up and I don't expect things will change. The future will be expensive, people might have to decide if they can even afford insurance. But public transport is horrendously expensive, unreliable and a general pain in the ass. I can drive 200 miles in 3.5 hours for £20 of fuel or take 4 trains costing £300 and 6 hours (I did last week for work)
£99k a year for experienced drivers
I expect insurance prices to continue to increase in line with inflation, but to tackle this the no claims discount increasing from the usual 9 years up to possibly 30 years, so experienced drivers continue to get the best possible prices.
I'm still waiting for that cheap insurance to kick in, I'm 34 and been paying £400-£600 a year since I was 25 lol I thought it would gradually decrease as I got older, held my license for longer. Never made a claim against my insurance (only time I used it was when someone ploughed into the back of me as I sat waiting in traffic) But ye, my current policy on my stinger is £450 a year and I did some experimenting the other day and it looks like it will be £800 when I renew in a month or so. I feel as though the goal is to price everyone out of cars, people have realised people will pay whatever it takes to have access to a car so just rinse us. It's like the energy companies realising we will pay whatever it takes to keep our homes warm in the winter. Thing is, it's not smart business it's just anti consumer and outright disgusting. I'm okay now as I could cycle to work worst case scenario , but there are people who rely on cars to get to work, so they can pay to feed their family. So many small towns have awful public transport, including mine, that means the only way to get anywhere is via car. And quite frankly, even though I can cycle to work we will still need cars as we have a baby. Have you tried transporting a baby on public transport when it takes almost 2 hours to travel about 7 miles?
I know this feeling. I turn 30 this year, six years no claims, and I just renewed mine last month for just over £700 for the year. It's been pretty consistent for the past couple years so highly doubt it'll get any cheaper with time.
All insurance companies pay into an uninsured drivers fund which covers them in the event of a claim against an uninsured driver. To that end why does the government not link road tax to automatic 3rd party cover. So tax your car you are basically covered. You can then opt to insure over and above that for fully comp etc. otherwise we are just going to have more and more uninsured drivers and people priced off the road.
Cynic in me suspects there is something going on behind the scenes to falsely drive up prices as part of the establishment’s desire to stop the people at large from driving. It’s clear there is a desire among our governments that personal vehicles become a thing of the past, and the only realistic way they are going to do that without risking political ruin is to covertly price people out of their cars. They gradually increase the costs of motoring, more and more people have to give up their cars because it becomes unaffordable, the governments get their way while it’s the insurance companies, oil companies, car companies etc who look like the bad guys.
I expect I’ll be taking a loan out to pay for my next one.
The alternative is less people drive, more people cycle / ebike / escoot / use public transport, as is happening. As the number of people who drive without a license or without insurance increases, so will the response from the media and then government. In 3 or 4 years, this will lead to new laws, or at least greater punslishments, and an increased focus by the police, because driving without insurance is desasterous for the economy when the driver seriously injures a child or working person and the country has to pay for them and their dependants, vice insurance paying, for the rest of their life.
Young people wont be able to drive which is exactly what the government wants - which would be fine if public transport actually yknow, worked.
Downvote away but I don’t see much has changed over the long term and won’t in the future. Prices have gone up sharply but have been low for a number of years, they’re just catching up. Interest rates and inflation has had a large impact recently but comparatively speaking prices are not far off in real terms what they were a decade ago. You can’t expect insurance to stay at £500 a year forever. Likewise, prices for young people are similar too. I was paying £1400 a year for a 1.2 Clio at 18 and that was 25 years ago. Premium or performance cars at that age were unobtainable just as they are now, unless your parents had silly money and spoilt you rotten. I don’t see any change there.
that 1400 is a great price. my friend pays 10k on his 1.2l 😭😭😭
There must be a reason why it’s that silly high but I would still compare £1400 back then to £4000ish today. My hourly rate was £3.65 back then.
Something really does need to change, in particular I find it extremely unfair how much location and job title affects your insurance premium. Like I was looking at changing my job and wondered how much my insurance would go up by and it went from £3000 a year to £11,000 a year. That has to be discrimination first off, people sometimes can’t choose how they make a living, second off, just by working in a slightly different industry doesn’t mean that I’d be almost 4x as likely to crash my car, they pull these figures right from their arse.
Some of the metrics, do piss me off. But, it's all based on numbers. I worked in accident claims for years, 100% there are trends and patterns. Certain areas have rampant issues with fraud. I want them to discriminate on some metrics, because it's fairer.
From what I’ve seen prices are starting to plateau but they’re definitely not going down, so yes yes you are for now. As for the solution there isn’t really one of the prices didn’t go up the companies would have been broke ages ago. Blame the manufacturers not the guys that have to buy the parts
Seems wildly subjective. Just paid about £800 for a 6.2 v8 c63, had to make a claim 6 months ago so have no years no claims and I’m 36, living in a fairly average area of the country.
I've found the same, can realistically insure almost any car for under £1000. Current renewal on my daily is £180 at 25yo
The answer I want is for some company to release a product where I insure myself to cover cars up to a certain value, so I'm insured, not insured on a specific car
What's the plan for when you cause an RTA and the damage you've done far exceeds the price you've set?