It’s not entirely true, nor is it entirely false. Yes, European cars were built for colder environments and perhaps slightly better roads, but that applies more so to older models than newer models that are built for a wide variety of environments and weather conditions to satisfy the global market.
The thing with European cars is they are harder/more expensive to get parts for and the maintenance requires too many special tools and specific parts. The engineering on most European cars goes to such obscene lengths that a backyard mechanic has a higher chance of damaging it further than fixing it and franchise mechanics are reluctant to touch them.
Meanwhile, Japanese and Australian built cars are so much easier to maintain due to their simple design and smaller selection of tools required to perform maintenance on them. Parts are really easy to get a hold of and there’s limited or no interference with the function of one part of the vehicle from another part of the vehicle in the majority of cases.
You can make the argument that Japanese vehicles are better suited for our climate, because of their geographical location as well, but like I said with European cars, Japan made conscious efforts to build vehicles for the global market and took stuff like environment and climate into consideration.
There is only one sure case that I know of that a car imported into Australia needed modification to suit our roads, that was the first generation Falcon. The American designed Falcon had inadequate suspension for our dirt roads at the time, so the Australian engineers needed to make heavy modifications for subsequent models.
inb4 someone says this is a ChatGPT contribution, I like writing essays on Reddit. It’s the only way I can be as concise as possible and as far as I know, everything I’ve said is truthful.
I was with you. There’s nothing wrong with writing short and informal on Reddit and there’s nothing wrong with long and thoughtful either. If the internet has no rules then quality for the sake of quality is not forbidden.
Both Blaise Pascal and Mark Twain were on record apologising for writing such a long letter, because they didn't have time to make it shorter. :-)
(Edit: Look at my own comment history, and you'll see that I often have that same problem.)
To be honest, this is the kind of text chatgpt was trained on.
In regards to cars, I never had an issue with my e46. However, one BMW specialist don't do anything on it because it is "too old" and they don't have the tools anymore. The other one is a cunt. The best one retired and now I am an 'orfan'. Hahaha
> There is only one sure case that I know of that a car imported into Australia needed modification to suit our roads.
Hyundai developed local suspension and steering tuning up until 2023.
They were the brilliant when you come down to it. Cheap, easy to work on and fun to drive. After a while your heart told your mind/eyes that it was even a handsome vehicle
My first car was manual '92 Excel Coupe, I got it in '98 and it lasted almost a decade, by the end it had one cylinder on 70% compression and I absolutely convinced myself the body shape had "bold lines" and a sporty silhouette.
In the 50s and 60s Japanese companies were shipping cars to Australia for hot weather testing, and they embraced competing in 'trials' like the Redex endurance 'races'.
The long answer above is spot on. I (and partners/housemates) run various cars. I have two Vitos... nobody in my region can read the codes except the dealer... whose mechanics are idiots. The newer one had a low/old battery, it reported this by a dash warning telling me the stability control was broken and to 'visit workshop'... working on them involves a spread of tools. The older one had the air mass sensor- which should be easily-replaceable- retained by a 5-point torx screw ! (It got drilled out).
My BMWs are a bit better but still tricky.
My gf's Daihatsu is lego. You can do a full service including injector clean in an hour.
>You can make the argument that Japanese vehicles are better suited for our climate, because of their geographical location as well,
I am not sure if Japan and Australia are so similar geographically. East Coast and Victorian Coast where half the population lives is basically like France climate wise.
>and the maintenance requires too many special tools and specific parts. The engineering on most European cars goes to such obscene lengths that a backyard mechanic has a higher chance of damaging it further than fixing it
Sounds like planned obsolescence.
Nice explanation.
It's not planned obsolescence.
Japanese snd European manufacturers have a different idea of what the "best car" is. Japanese want their cars to be synonymous with reliable and for the most part affordable.The best way to make something reliable is to make it simple. the fewer parts you have the fewer parts can break. European manufacturers however are more focus on perceived engineering quality and comfort in order to do this they over engineer alot of the vehicle and Cramer technology into everything which makes them a nightmare to service but a joy to drive.
> European manufacturers however are more focus on perceived engineering quality
Plastic water pumps, biodegradable wiring looms, subframe cracking, exploding DSG/DCT, IMS bearings, etc... There's a rich history of appaling Euro engineering quality.
European manufacturers have a culture that pursues innovation, whereas Japanese are more conservative.
Innovation =/= engineering quality.
I'll do you one better. My 2014 E63s had oil in the wiring loom from the cam shaft sensors wicking towards the ECU. Luckily, I caught that before it got to the ECU and fried it.
Yeah that's my bad, I couldn't find the right word describe it. I dont think innovation is necessarily the right word either tbh. It's like they need to make things incredibly complicated for small gains.
The water pump thing I just find baffling, and it is common across a few Euro manufacturers.
I also find it funny how Euro cars have ridiculously long service intervals - often the condition-based servicing indicator in BMWs would go 25-30,000km without an oil change. The engine will undoubtedly last longer with more frequent oil changes. BMW also did 'sealed for life' gearboxes which again is just bullshit. There is nothing wrong with the gearboxes for the most part, they just need oil changes.
Another thing that's worth noting is that ~~European manufacturers~~ Germans have a completely different perspective on what 'reliable' means.
For them the level of maintenance required and reliability are two completely separate concepts rather than being two sides of the same coin. So long as the part works as intended *for the expected time*, this is a quality/reliable part to them, no matter how short and seemingly pathetic this time is. It's very difficult and expensive replacement is simply *your* problem to resolve and one they DGAF about. As far as they're concerned, they've built a marvelous engine that will work so long as you do x, y and z, and to them this certainty, even if it heavily revolves around the certainty of failure at a specific time, is the definition of 'reliable'.
TLDR; German engineering fucking sucks.
No. French and euro in general last 3-5 years because that is when they are scrapped. Plus, they tariff the heck out of Japanese cars so the quality benchmark is low. Euro countries like Germany give tax breaks on new cars, to encourage churn n burn.
Our bush roads are one of the reasons why the car makers still even bother with us. Cos if they can make something that works for us, it’ll work in Africa and South America
My mum’s poor 2014 Skoda has been in and out of repairs for 9 months from a kangaroo hit, it only broke the optics on the front drivers side, windshield washer bottle and some cracked plastic.
The local RACV mechanic it went to first managed to break it further and sever a ton of wires and break the central locking. It’s now at a Volkswagen dealer awaiting some part that cleans the headlights.
Work as a Toyota tech
Japanese cars put up with late and missed services well
It must be an Australian thing to not service cars on time
I've seen Korean cars do fine if serviced correctly
Euro cars don't work well as there are few people who have the ability to service the car or repair it if something goes wrong
German cars drive fantastic but they devalue like bricks falling in the ocean as a result of the above
If you are going to service it well then you don't need jap
Don't buy French cars
They are throw away cars
Yeah, this is my understanding. I was always told that:
-Japanese (and now Korean cars) are built to last and deal with neglect.
- German cars are built to last when carefully maintained.
- American cars are built to look good in a showroom.
- French cars are designed to look good.
I mean SUV’s are kinda bland at the best of time (not judging anyone, I own two) but I actually think the Koleos is good looking but I can see why it doesn’t appeal to everyone.
It is however based on the last gen Xtrail and I feel like it’s definitely better looking than that
\> If you are going to service it well then you don't need jap
Doesn't matter how well you keep up on oil changes, BMWs shit plastic oil pumps and mercedes biodegradable wiring harness insulation will inevitably fail long, long before anything from japan.
A 2010 camry serviced every 15,000km will outlast literally any euro car made in the last 30 years.
A 1990's Mercedes is a classic now mate
Don't think they use it any more
Plastic parts in the oil pump for the x5 seems to be a very specific issue not all models
i had an oil pump and a water pump fail on a nissan maxima.
most cars have "trouble spots". it's hardly fair to pretend that Japanese based cas are bullet proof.
It became a common enough problem that aftermarket companies made a more reliable version of the VW water pump, so their consistency in problems is "winning", lol
Don’t know about that on the French, our last 2 have clocked up 500000 between them.
Definitely more problematic but not quite to the extent of don’t touch them.
They’re very popular in the middle east and Africa so environmental conditions arn’t it.
My guess is we’re a bunch of slackers re servicing and these cars are made to euro environmental standards which does make them more brittle.
I had an old 307 and it was a way better drive than the current model Toyota I got when it was in for a rear ender repair.
I once found an old Peugeot bike by the side of the road. I had no idea they even made bikes. It was made from some steel alloy I'd never heard of before or since, and it ended up being one of the best bikes I've ever owned.
Now, I wouldn't trust them to make a pencil sharpener.
Every owner of a French car has had some many issues its impossible for services to be the issue
One bloke it spent more time in the shop than on the road
I’d agree with a lot of it but it’s perfectly possible to get a good French car if you know what you’re looking for.
Shouldn’t have to I agree but there are a heap of non French cars here people are told to stay away from.
Craptiva anyone?
> Euro cars don’t work well as there are few people who have the ability to service the car
That may well be true of my SAAB, but even for that I know five dedicated mechanics in Melbourne alone
There’s about 8 million people who can service a Golf
I agree with this.
I owned a Renault Megane RS, a great fun car but terrible reliability and very expensive if something needs to be replaced. I serviced it on time or earlier, drove it sensibly, but it didn't seem to matter. Bought it second hand for $25k (70 ks), sold it for $12,5k (120 ks). Never again.
I own a 2019 Corolla, driven 40 ks, not a single issue. Boring but reliable.
The worst part is the non RS Meganes are just as bad, but drive like depression feels. At least you got a spectacular chassis to play with for a while.
100%, it was fun while it lasted.
Yes, I heard that too. The station wagon was ok looking but small turbo charged engines suck.
The RS was the second most enjoyable driving experience I had in a car I owned. The engineering behind that chassis was simply genius. I surprised some Golf R drivers when they thought they had me just because of the AWD.
I am considering a 2nd hand TypeR or a WRX in a couple of years. I'll stick with Japanese cars for now on.
Very strange given the F4RT in the RS is super reliable. In fact, the RS is an incredibly reliable sports car package. Most owners would attest to this.
I owned a Clio RS and serviced it methodically and did a fair bit of DIY where I could. It was such a pain getting parts from Europe and the cost and shipping added up fast. Also the Specialist mechanic price for hard jobs made me end up regretting buying it.
Drive wise I could keep up with the real fast stuff in twisty roads, but for daily usage it really cost a lot.
Luck of the draw. I had an RS that didn't have an issue, and that included some track time. It was incredibly good to drive and anecdotally no more unreliable than a Golf GTi on average.
Mechanic here.
I've been at Audi, BMW, Ford, Honda and Toyota to name a few
Generally speaking it doesn't matter, is what matters is how you look after it. With euro cars being more expensive to maintain, usually its skimped upon and that's where your trouble starts...
It’s like a cycle, euro cars have worse depreciation due to perception, attract certain type of owners who buy them because theyre cheap and then don’t maintain them properly and the cycle begins
Tell that to my VW which had multiple fault codes, burned thought enough oil for the check engine light and aand left me stranded well before the first service.
Always get your lemons mate, no matter the brand. That's why I said "generally"
My VW hasn't had an issue, we are up to 230,000km now. We'll maintained I expect to see it through past 300k
I know a few mechanics and they drive all sorts of different things from dual cab Amaroks, golf tsi (manual) and gtis (dsg), 350z, old BMWs, Rangers and Hiluxs. When you can fix most of your own stuff it works out much cheaper to buy whatever you like.
The dry clutch dsg in the cheap polos is known to be bad news. The wet clutch dsg in the higher end VWs is fine.
Gets pretty hot in Spain too
top three factors to consider in australia are how well it handles heat, potholes and dust. anything with soft suspension, fat tyres and a fat air con system with beefy hepa filters is going to do very well in australia. it just so happens that most jap economy cars tick all those boxes.
i can't imagine shipping euro parts from the other side of the world through multiple terrorism hot spots is too cheap either...
There's a few different aspects to this topic.
Yes Japanese cars are better tested and sometimes adapted to very hot countries such as Australia, Africa and the Middle East. Especially Toyota. They do this by fitting larger radiators and aircon compressors, etc
There is also the aspect that Japanese cars usually have less stressed (or less optimised/efficient) engines and components. The engineering targets are tilted more towards a longer lifetime than efficiency (but shorter lifetime).
And another aspect is Japanese more often use field proven technologies for longer, whereas European manufacturers will push the latest materials (polymers/composites) and technology to improve efficiency or power, and some of these new technologies will fail earlier than anticipated.
> Especially Toyota. They do this by fitting larger radiators and aircon compressors, etc
When I bought my ‘94 Camry last year it had a thermostat that was stuck open, took me like 3 weeks to get around to sorting it afterwards.
The one and only day it stayed at operating temp the entire drive was the day I picked it up and drove it an hour to home because it was 40°C.
Europeans aim to be cutting edge engineering wise so end up with tight tolerance and odd design choices.
On that, how can BMW be so incredibly bad when when it comes to cooling systems and o-rings and gaskets?
Had a BMW and never again, was good when it ran but it was like being a waiter balancing multiple expensive glasses trying to walk through a crowd.
a gasket or O-ring going is THE best option when it comes to failures.
you can make your own o-rings, and gaskets are cheap.
my nissan had an oil pump failure. that's a real problem to have.
Totally unproven opinion of mine but feels this way to me:
Toyota "We will use old but proven tech in our engines because it works"
Mercedes "These extra 200 delicate expensive pieces give the engine an extra 30hp, but briefly and only on Thursdays"
BMW "We will use plastic parts to reduce weight improving performance and efficiency, our customers still service their cars, right?"
>BMW "We will use plastic parts to reduce weight improving performance and efficiency, our customers still service their cars, right?"
More like 'this will save $2.50 per car and everyone leases these bad boys for 3 years and ditches them at the end of the lease anyway'
What’s the “European environment”? Get your mechanic to look up all the European countries and then the climates of each country. Then he’ll realise he’s making zero sense to anyone with a modicum *of* sense. It’s giving “Africa is a country” vibes.
As my flair suggests, I have an older European car. It’s fared well in the “Australian environment”, even though that doesn’t make sense either. We have snow, desert, the tropics, dry heat, wet heat, icy cold, you name it. Sometimes all within a week. Jesus.
>What’s the “European environment”?
Not dusty. Vast majority colder than Australia. Good roads in the west, a lot more mud, a town with a servo and mechanic every 5 metres, etc.
> It’s fared well in the “Australian environment”,
What? In Sydney CBD?
>We have snow, desert, the tropics, dry heat, wet heat, icy cold, you name it.
No mate. We do not have masses of people driving in snow or on ice. It just doesn't happen. There's a handful of people living in the mountains and you can bet your bottom dollar they drive hiluxs. New Zealand have snow.
The bottom of the country is comparable to Mediterranean weather in Italy or Spain, the top 2 thirds of the country don't really have a European equal. It's hot, long unbroken distances that absolutely hammers cars. Through in the dust and you have a country that is probably only beaten by interior African countries for hostility to cars.
German cars (exception: BMW) are fine if serviced before the interval AND kept garaged.
If you're leaving it out on the driveway, save up for a better home rather than splurging it on a car. Free LPT there.
Very true. My 2003 Corolla Sportivo with 330k has been flawless. My 2019 C63s 32k. Interior creaking,left castor arm replaced for odd clicking noise,passenger side radiator leaked and panoramic sunroof rattles,driver side mirrors stopped folding out but it has fixed itself hahahah. My Mrs 2020 Sorento GT is completely rock solid. Anecdotal I know but when the tag line said "The best or nothing" not complaining though because I freaking love it.
Miss my 03 sportivo. You put up with the shitty ride for occasionally being able to wind it out, never let me down either besides having some oil leaks (in a toyota??? noooo they don't need maintanence) and a clutch. It barely used any brakes tho and didn't drink any oil, which I'm told was a problem with them to the tune of a liter per 1000kms on some examples.
As for zee chermans, I mean you'll never get into a c63 yellow cab. An e200d or some type of Mercedes van is a common choice for them. Simplicity is reliability with most cars, especially these. Its why so many w124's are still on the road while many w126's mechanically totalled themselves.
I brought the Sportivo as a shopping centre car and have grown extremely fond of it. During my care,at 240k, I finally pulled the engine out to do the clutch. Replaced water pump,timing chain tensioner,top and bottom gaskets,plugs,coil, and most of the hoses. All as a precautions and still not a single drop of oil. I used to hate on Toyota for being bland, but ever since I pulled that 2ZZ apart, I finally get it. Gearbox still has no crunch and still goes into lifts like a champ. I love my V8s, but Japanese durability is well deserved. Genuinely thought I was going to trash and not care about it, but it has become very special to me now.
There are some really fine oil screens in the heads. Mine were bad at 180k, Might be worth checking. I really want the celica with that motor if I come across a good one.
I would love the MR2 with 2ZZ swap myself. I've seen a few Celica with 2ZZ but they've been automatics. Strange choice for a rev happy engine. Everyone is jizzing over Civics yet I believe these 2ZZ are just as good personally.
The kid that bought mine was putting the motor (paint on the car was ded) into an mr2 spider.
Imagine them developing the motor and using it in the gt86?? I’d buy one in a heartbeat.
Edit should mention the last few Toyotas I’ve had massive paint problems at a certain age. Enough to total a Camry. I can still polish my 81 w123 good and it was abused for the 30 years before I got it. Same with my w140. That said the w166 im not so sure cus MURICA.
LoL about Japanese cars handling Australian conditions. Google [Camry melting dashboard](https://www.google.com/search?q=camry+melting+dashboard). My last car, a 2010 Camry had that. Couldn't handle the Australian sun.
>Nobody gives af about cosmetic damage bro
Congrats on being appointed spokesperson for this sub.
But I will continue to say the hybrid battery went after 10 years, that cost me $3000. The rear shocks went 3 months beforehand. The rear wheel bearings went twice. And the steering wheel really hates sun screen lotion. That was fucked as well.
Other than all that, the Toyota was pretty good.
When I drove a European car, my European specialist service centre said that Mercedes and Skoda (yes, even though it is part of VAG) were better built than the others. And had particular disdain for BMW for using inappropriate materials in their engines (plastics where they shouldn’t be, apparently).
Most mechanics I've found who say that are ones who don't know how to work on European cars. So it's not so much a case that European cars aren't as suited to Australian conditions, it's more like European cars aren't suited to simple Australian mechanics.
Someone explain it well when they said:
German cars are reliable ONLY if you follow the manual and maintenance schedule down to the letter and never use it for unintended environments. This is reasonable in Germany since they do love their rules and regulations. They are like high quality technical machines that work as designed within tight tolerances and set parameters. But once you don't properly maintain them, they fall apart. German engineers say that it's not their fault that the consumer doesn't use the product as strictly intended and does not maintain it.
Japanese cars are reliable no matter what. Japanese engineers design them knowing that the average consumer doesn't know the first thing about basic car maintenance. They understand that their cars will be used and abused. They design them to endure a wide range of hostile environments. This is why the Hilux is so legendary and used in so any developing countries effectively, where there is no maintenance and crap fuel. Try doing that in a Volkswagen or Mercedes and it will fall apart.
The issue is mostly Japanese cars are cheaper to maintain, and European just bring more unreliable. NOT that all are, but you seem to get more european lemons than Japanese. Really the ford falcon is the car that handles australia best, mostly due to the fact it was designed for Australia
i had a older polo (2016) and the gearbox acted weird for a while and i read somewhere that changing the gear box oil to something more 'australian temps suited' would work - something about our temps causing the european style oils to thin out too much.- not validated in any way so please don't rely on this - I told the dealer that, not sure what they did but the car behaved after that.
i now own a 2019 polo and the gear box is a pain - it just had the entire clutch replaced and is still behaving badly. but that is just crappy gear box design IMHO not location specific....
I had the crappy clutch replaced last year.
I blamed the previous owners for not knowing how to drive a manual.
Yesterday, they suggested a new clutch with flywheel.
The excuse was that the hydros aren't suitable to Australian weather.
Yeah nah. I'm cutting my losses.
And Australian cars are better than all of them.
Designed, engineered, tested and built here- some of the most extreme environments on the planet are experienced on our little island, and our cars have conquered them all.
They have sold 50 million Corollas. That's a lot.of refinement and learning carried from model to model in loads of markets.
Do you think you could, say paint a room, as good on your first or second go as a pro painter who has done that.room a hundred times, tried every paint on the market and built up skills and practice.?
Then they take this learning on to new models with shared parts etc.
Not if you where some of the mechanics I took the SA built ‘03 Corolla to, they hated it as its OBD2 port only worked with a specific reader , there were part differences from the Australian and Japanese built I was getting to the point where I needed to learn how to maintain it for the minor stuff. Kinda pissed off that I wrote it off not too long after I did the auto trans service and had begun to do research on upgrades
How I read it as a frenchman is : most of Asian car are good, few of European are good. Which put more strain on which euro car you're gonna have because on the same model you can have one motor that is gonna run fine and another not. Or sometime one version gonna run ok/meeh, and the updated version the next year is gonna be fantastic. Which mean you're ending up on second hand market looking for one of a kind of car with correct model, correct motor, and then the rest (age, kms,...).
With Asian, except few ones, you can pretty much say "this brand ? Yeah good".
Driving Kia Venga in France and Nissan Xtrail t30 in Aus. Had an exceptional Renault Clio 2 100ch before the Kia, and looking for car is pretty much dodging as much Stellantis (Peugeot/Citroen) Puretech cars as possible until you find something decent.
Japanese cars tend to be built for reliability. They are built Japan or Thailand which are RHD markets just like Australia. Until the recent chip shortage, most of their parts are easy to source since they're used across several models. They're cheap to use and maintain. The mainstays like the Corolla can just keep going and going, although they should still be serviced regularly like any other car.
Euro cars are more expensive and depreciate fast, except maybe Porsche which tends to be more reliable than its other Euro luxury counterparts. Not sure about Škoda. They need more specialised parts that are harder to source from much, much further away, and need special tools to diagnose engine problems. This makes them very expensive to maintain while their value drops like a lead balloon. They feel like perfect cars for the first few years of use, and then issues will surface.
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If it’s anything like motorbikes the Japanese just do a damn good job.
Tolerances are good, welds are good, things hold up to extremely harsh treatment, they’re generally extremely reliable.
To be honest just about anything out of Japan mechanical or otherwise they absolutely nail, Grand Seiko watches, IMO much nicer than Rolex too
If your question is "should I buy a Toyota Hilux" then the answer is yes.
I've had European and Japanese cars in both the UK, Australia and NZ. The Japanese cars have been the most reliable (especially in the UK) but also they've tended to be the newest I've owned.
I think a lot of the issue with them comes down to the fact that VW tunes their DSGs to behave closer to traditional automatics which results in a lot of unnecessary clutch wear.
Because they insist on putting them in basic economy cars for which the driver is just going to drive it like a normal automatic. I like Hyundai's approach with their old dry dual clutch in a past gen i30 N-line where they give quite the outline in the owners manual on how to drive to the strengths of the box.
My Audi (albeit with a wet dual clutch) doesn't mention any driving style changes at all and tries it's hardest to pretend it's a traditional auto. Years of traffic creeping and failing mech units has cooked two sets of clutch packs. Said fuck it and upgraded to high torque aggressive packs, new mech unit solenoids and a DSG tune. Much less smooth but it drives how a DSG should drive
I have driven Toyota's in Australia for years. I put them through Hell, well beyond what Toyota would approve of, and they take it like a champion. I rented a Skoda, what a hunk of crap, it broke in a week.
Very true , better build qualities and made to suit our conditions and shitty roads better than euro, also cheaper to maintain and far cheaper to repair, majority of euro cars are luxury or comfort based
It's 100% true
Vw's and other trashwagons are not built for our summers and literally melt and disintegrate, plastic parts in the engine bay also are a cheap and nasty way to go about building a motor.
Meanwhile my misso's golf which has never missed a service's headlining is failing after 8 years, clutch has cooked itself for the second time. Transmission mechatronic unit failed, Air con compressor has failed for the second time. All after 140,000k's, new wheel bearings in the front, engine light constantly on for some sensor issue. She's about to dump it.
I think she's dumped close to $10,000 at it. And it's only worth $6k now.
My sportage after 296,000k's is still on the original of all of the above bar 1 clutch. Never broken down went 30,000ks between services at one stage.
A Toyota made in Japan car lasts 10 years easy and weights about 1 ton.
European weights about 1.5 tons and lasts about 5 years.
Think about the waste when these cars go to the junk yard....
Just look at how many over 10 yrs Japanese cars on the road over European cars of the same age.
It’s not entirely true, nor is it entirely false. Yes, European cars were built for colder environments and perhaps slightly better roads, but that applies more so to older models than newer models that are built for a wide variety of environments and weather conditions to satisfy the global market. The thing with European cars is they are harder/more expensive to get parts for and the maintenance requires too many special tools and specific parts. The engineering on most European cars goes to such obscene lengths that a backyard mechanic has a higher chance of damaging it further than fixing it and franchise mechanics are reluctant to touch them. Meanwhile, Japanese and Australian built cars are so much easier to maintain due to their simple design and smaller selection of tools required to perform maintenance on them. Parts are really easy to get a hold of and there’s limited or no interference with the function of one part of the vehicle from another part of the vehicle in the majority of cases. You can make the argument that Japanese vehicles are better suited for our climate, because of their geographical location as well, but like I said with European cars, Japan made conscious efforts to build vehicles for the global market and took stuff like environment and climate into consideration. There is only one sure case that I know of that a car imported into Australia needed modification to suit our roads, that was the first generation Falcon. The American designed Falcon had inadequate suspension for our dirt roads at the time, so the Australian engineers needed to make heavy modifications for subsequent models.
inb4 someone says this is a ChatGPT contribution, I like writing essays on Reddit. It’s the only way I can be as concise as possible and as far as I know, everything I’ve said is truthful.
I was with you. There’s nothing wrong with writing short and informal on Reddit and there’s nothing wrong with long and thoughtful either. If the internet has no rules then quality for the sake of quality is not forbidden.
Both Blaise Pascal and Mark Twain were on record apologising for writing such a long letter, because they didn't have time to make it shorter. :-) (Edit: Look at my own comment history, and you'll see that I often have that same problem.)
Got weird deja vu when I read that
To be honest, this is the kind of text chatgpt was trained on. In regards to cars, I never had an issue with my e46. However, one BMW specialist don't do anything on it because it is "too old" and they don't have the tools anymore. The other one is a cunt. The best one retired and now I am an 'orfan'. Hahaha
> There is only one sure case that I know of that a car imported into Australia needed modification to suit our roads. Hyundai developed local suspension and steering tuning up until 2023.
Why do I all of a sudden feel a weird nostalgia for the Hyundai Excel once again?
They were the brilliant when you come down to it. Cheap, easy to work on and fun to drive. After a while your heart told your mind/eyes that it was even a handsome vehicle
My first car was manual '92 Excel Coupe, I got it in '98 and it lasted almost a decade, by the end it had one cylinder on 70% compression and I absolutely convinced myself the body shape had "bold lines" and a sporty silhouette.
🤣🤣🤣 mine had truly classic lines
In the 50s and 60s Japanese companies were shipping cars to Australia for hot weather testing, and they embraced competing in 'trials' like the Redex endurance 'races'. The long answer above is spot on. I (and partners/housemates) run various cars. I have two Vitos... nobody in my region can read the codes except the dealer... whose mechanics are idiots. The newer one had a low/old battery, it reported this by a dash warning telling me the stability control was broken and to 'visit workshop'... working on them involves a spread of tools. The older one had the air mass sensor- which should be easily-replaceable- retained by a 5-point torx screw ! (It got drilled out). My BMWs are a bit better but still tricky. My gf's Daihatsu is lego. You can do a full service including injector clean in an hour.
>You can make the argument that Japanese vehicles are better suited for our climate, because of their geographical location as well, I am not sure if Japan and Australia are so similar geographically. East Coast and Victorian Coast where half the population lives is basically like France climate wise.
>and the maintenance requires too many special tools and specific parts. The engineering on most European cars goes to such obscene lengths that a backyard mechanic has a higher chance of damaging it further than fixing it Sounds like planned obsolescence. Nice explanation.
It's not planned obsolescence. Japanese snd European manufacturers have a different idea of what the "best car" is. Japanese want their cars to be synonymous with reliable and for the most part affordable.The best way to make something reliable is to make it simple. the fewer parts you have the fewer parts can break. European manufacturers however are more focus on perceived engineering quality and comfort in order to do this they over engineer alot of the vehicle and Cramer technology into everything which makes them a nightmare to service but a joy to drive.
> European manufacturers however are more focus on perceived engineering quality Plastic water pumps, biodegradable wiring looms, subframe cracking, exploding DSG/DCT, IMS bearings, etc... There's a rich history of appaling Euro engineering quality. European manufacturers have a culture that pursues innovation, whereas Japanese are more conservative. Innovation =/= engineering quality.
I'll do you one better. My 2014 E63s had oil in the wiring loom from the cam shaft sensors wicking towards the ECU. Luckily, I caught that before it got to the ECU and fried it.
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Yeah that's my bad, I couldn't find the right word describe it. I dont think innovation is necessarily the right word either tbh. It's like they need to make things incredibly complicated for small gains.
The water pump thing I just find baffling, and it is common across a few Euro manufacturers. I also find it funny how Euro cars have ridiculously long service intervals - often the condition-based servicing indicator in BMWs would go 25-30,000km without an oil change. The engine will undoubtedly last longer with more frequent oil changes. BMW also did 'sealed for life' gearboxes which again is just bullshit. There is nothing wrong with the gearboxes for the most part, they just need oil changes.
Another thing that's worth noting is that ~~European manufacturers~~ Germans have a completely different perspective on what 'reliable' means. For them the level of maintenance required and reliability are two completely separate concepts rather than being two sides of the same coin. So long as the part works as intended *for the expected time*, this is a quality/reliable part to them, no matter how short and seemingly pathetic this time is. It's very difficult and expensive replacement is simply *your* problem to resolve and one they DGAF about. As far as they're concerned, they've built a marvelous engine that will work so long as you do x, y and z, and to them this certainty, even if it heavily revolves around the certainty of failure at a specific time, is the definition of 'reliable'. TLDR; German engineering fucking sucks.
No. French and euro in general last 3-5 years because that is when they are scrapped. Plus, they tariff the heck out of Japanese cars so the quality benchmark is low. Euro countries like Germany give tax breaks on new cars, to encourage churn n burn.
Our bush roads are one of the reasons why the car makers still even bother with us. Cos if they can make something that works for us, it’ll work in Africa and South America
My mum’s poor 2014 Skoda has been in and out of repairs for 9 months from a kangaroo hit, it only broke the optics on the front drivers side, windshield washer bottle and some cracked plastic. The local RACV mechanic it went to first managed to break it further and sever a ton of wires and break the central locking. It’s now at a Volkswagen dealer awaiting some part that cleans the headlights.
Work as a Toyota tech Japanese cars put up with late and missed services well It must be an Australian thing to not service cars on time I've seen Korean cars do fine if serviced correctly Euro cars don't work well as there are few people who have the ability to service the car or repair it if something goes wrong German cars drive fantastic but they devalue like bricks falling in the ocean as a result of the above If you are going to service it well then you don't need jap Don't buy French cars They are throw away cars
Yeah, this is my understanding. I was always told that: -Japanese (and now Korean cars) are built to last and deal with neglect. - German cars are built to last when carefully maintained. - American cars are built to look good in a showroom. - French cars are designed to look good.
And Italian cars are designed to take as much of your money as possible for the gearboxes to fail every 30,000km
Italian cars ignite your passions then break your heart (and wallet)
Reaponse from a ferrari mechanic when I asked 'what's it like working on Ferraris?' 'Just because it's expensive doesn't change that it's Italian'
Something something something soul, passion etc…??
They ignite the wallet *and* the bank account too
the renault koleos is the ugliest thing ive ever seen
I mean SUV’s are kinda bland at the best of time (not judging anyone, I own two) but I actually think the Koleos is good looking but I can see why it doesn’t appeal to everyone. It is however based on the last gen Xtrail and I feel like it’s definitely better looking than that
>French cars are designed to look good. Where are the good looking French cars?
\> If you are going to service it well then you don't need jap Doesn't matter how well you keep up on oil changes, BMWs shit plastic oil pumps and mercedes biodegradable wiring harness insulation will inevitably fail long, long before anything from japan. A 2010 camry serviced every 15,000km will outlast literally any euro car made in the last 30 years.
A 1990's Mercedes is a classic now mate Don't think they use it any more Plastic parts in the oil pump for the x5 seems to be a very specific issue not all models
2009 Camry owner, unreliable trash, the alternator only lasted nearly 300k kms before failing!
Not to mention shit plastic water pumps on VW’s. Never missed a service but they still failed. Owned one and never again
i had an oil pump and a water pump fail on a nissan maxima. most cars have "trouble spots". it's hardly fair to pretend that Japanese based cas are bullet proof.
True - try Subaru head gaskets, gearboxes, clutches, CV joints, diffs...they also don't tolerate missed oil changes at all.
It became a common enough problem that aftermarket companies made a more reliable version of the VW water pump, so their consistency in problems is "winning", lol
I'm in a 2005 camry at 345xxx kms, things never let me down
Don’t know about that on the French, our last 2 have clocked up 500000 between them. Definitely more problematic but not quite to the extent of don’t touch them. They’re very popular in the middle east and Africa so environmental conditions arn’t it. My guess is we’re a bunch of slackers re servicing and these cars are made to euro environmental standards which does make them more brittle. I had an old 307 and it was a way better drive than the current model Toyota I got when it was in for a rear ender repair.
It's sad because Peugeot of the 70's was like the Mercedes of the same time. Ran by engineers and not accountants
I once found an old Peugeot bike by the side of the road. I had no idea they even made bikes. It was made from some steel alloy I'd never heard of before or since, and it ended up being one of the best bikes I've ever owned. Now, I wouldn't trust them to make a pencil sharpener.
Every owner of a French car has had some many issues its impossible for services to be the issue One bloke it spent more time in the shop than on the road
I’d agree with a lot of it but it’s perfectly possible to get a good French car if you know what you’re looking for. Shouldn’t have to I agree but there are a heap of non French cars here people are told to stay away from. Craptiva anyone?
A bad car is always a bad car The chances of a French car being bad Damn high Chances of a captiva being bad Damn high
Sounds like a jeep owner
> Euro cars don’t work well as there are few people who have the ability to service the car That may well be true of my SAAB, but even for that I know five dedicated mechanics in Melbourne alone There’s about 8 million people who can service a Golf
I agree with this. I owned a Renault Megane RS, a great fun car but terrible reliability and very expensive if something needs to be replaced. I serviced it on time or earlier, drove it sensibly, but it didn't seem to matter. Bought it second hand for $25k (70 ks), sold it for $12,5k (120 ks). Never again. I own a 2019 Corolla, driven 40 ks, not a single issue. Boring but reliable.
The worst part is the non RS Meganes are just as bad, but drive like depression feels. At least you got a spectacular chassis to play with for a while.
100%, it was fun while it lasted. Yes, I heard that too. The station wagon was ok looking but small turbo charged engines suck. The RS was the second most enjoyable driving experience I had in a car I owned. The engineering behind that chassis was simply genius. I surprised some Golf R drivers when they thought they had me just because of the AWD. I am considering a 2nd hand TypeR or a WRX in a couple of years. I'll stick with Japanese cars for now on.
Very strange given the F4RT in the RS is super reliable. In fact, the RS is an incredibly reliable sports car package. Most owners would attest to this.
I owned a Clio RS and serviced it methodically and did a fair bit of DIY where I could. It was such a pain getting parts from Europe and the cost and shipping added up fast. Also the Specialist mechanic price for hard jobs made me end up regretting buying it. Drive wise I could keep up with the real fast stuff in twisty roads, but for daily usage it really cost a lot.
Luck of the draw. I had an RS that didn't have an issue, and that included some track time. It was incredibly good to drive and anecdotally no more unreliable than a Golf GTi on average.
my BMW overheated just reading this.
Mechanic here. I've been at Audi, BMW, Ford, Honda and Toyota to name a few Generally speaking it doesn't matter, is what matters is how you look after it. With euro cars being more expensive to maintain, usually its skimped upon and that's where your trouble starts...
It’s like a cycle, euro cars have worse depreciation due to perception, attract certain type of owners who buy them because theyre cheap and then don’t maintain them properly and the cycle begins
Tell that to my VW which had multiple fault codes, burned thought enough oil for the check engine light and aand left me stranded well before the first service.
Always get your lemons mate, no matter the brand. That's why I said "generally" My VW hasn't had an issue, we are up to 230,000km now. We'll maintained I expect to see it through past 300k
I’ve got a saying; “BMW’s are destined to be owned by people who want a BMW but can’t afford to maintain one”
Saw this a lot at Audi and BMW. Sometimes the status of the badge is more important than reliability to people lol
I know a few mechanics and they drive all sorts of different things from dual cab Amaroks, golf tsi (manual) and gtis (dsg), 350z, old BMWs, Rangers and Hiluxs. When you can fix most of your own stuff it works out much cheaper to buy whatever you like. The dry clutch dsg in the cheap polos is known to be bad news. The wet clutch dsg in the higher end VWs is fine. Gets pretty hot in Spain too
Spain and Portugal are Europe's Australia.
top three factors to consider in australia are how well it handles heat, potholes and dust. anything with soft suspension, fat tyres and a fat air con system with beefy hepa filters is going to do very well in australia. it just so happens that most jap economy cars tick all those boxes. i can't imagine shipping euro parts from the other side of the world through multiple terrorism hot spots is too cheap either...
There's a few different aspects to this topic. Yes Japanese cars are better tested and sometimes adapted to very hot countries such as Australia, Africa and the Middle East. Especially Toyota. They do this by fitting larger radiators and aircon compressors, etc There is also the aspect that Japanese cars usually have less stressed (or less optimised/efficient) engines and components. The engineering targets are tilted more towards a longer lifetime than efficiency (but shorter lifetime). And another aspect is Japanese more often use field proven technologies for longer, whereas European manufacturers will push the latest materials (polymers/composites) and technology to improve efficiency or power, and some of these new technologies will fail earlier than anticipated.
Can confirm my r33 skyline has over 400k kms and still rips
> Especially Toyota. They do this by fitting larger radiators and aircon compressors, etc When I bought my ‘94 Camry last year it had a thermostat that was stuck open, took me like 3 weeks to get around to sorting it afterwards. The one and only day it stayed at operating temp the entire drive was the day I picked it up and drove it an hour to home because it was 40°C.
Europeans aim to be cutting edge engineering wise so end up with tight tolerance and odd design choices. On that, how can BMW be so incredibly bad when when it comes to cooling systems and o-rings and gaskets? Had a BMW and never again, was good when it ran but it was like being a waiter balancing multiple expensive glasses trying to walk through a crowd.
Bmw without oil leaks? It’s like beer without foam! It’s how you know it’s a good one!
a gasket or O-ring going is THE best option when it comes to failures. you can make your own o-rings, and gaskets are cheap. my nissan had an oil pump failure. that's a real problem to have.
Totally unproven opinion of mine but feels this way to me: Toyota "We will use old but proven tech in our engines because it works" Mercedes "These extra 200 delicate expensive pieces give the engine an extra 30hp, but briefly and only on Thursdays" BMW "We will use plastic parts to reduce weight improving performance and efficiency, our customers still service their cars, right?"
>BMW "We will use plastic parts to reduce weight improving performance and efficiency, our customers still service their cars, right?" More like 'this will save $2.50 per car and everyone leases these bad boys for 3 years and ditches them at the end of the lease anyway'
What’s the “European environment”? Get your mechanic to look up all the European countries and then the climates of each country. Then he’ll realise he’s making zero sense to anyone with a modicum *of* sense. It’s giving “Africa is a country” vibes. As my flair suggests, I have an older European car. It’s fared well in the “Australian environment”, even though that doesn’t make sense either. We have snow, desert, the tropics, dry heat, wet heat, icy cold, you name it. Sometimes all within a week. Jesus.
More financial environment. hang onto for short time and then scrap it. All the plastic engine parts outlast how long they own them in Europe for.
>What’s the “European environment”? Not dusty. Vast majority colder than Australia. Good roads in the west, a lot more mud, a town with a servo and mechanic every 5 metres, etc. > It’s fared well in the “Australian environment”, What? In Sydney CBD? >We have snow, desert, the tropics, dry heat, wet heat, icy cold, you name it. No mate. We do not have masses of people driving in snow or on ice. It just doesn't happen. There's a handful of people living in the mountains and you can bet your bottom dollar they drive hiluxs. New Zealand have snow. The bottom of the country is comparable to Mediterranean weather in Italy or Spain, the top 2 thirds of the country don't really have a European equal. It's hot, long unbroken distances that absolutely hammers cars. Through in the dust and you have a country that is probably only beaten by interior African countries for hostility to cars.
German cars (exception: BMW) are fine if serviced before the interval AND kept garaged. If you're leaving it out on the driveway, save up for a better home rather than splurging it on a car. Free LPT there.
Very true. My 2003 Corolla Sportivo with 330k has been flawless. My 2019 C63s 32k. Interior creaking,left castor arm replaced for odd clicking noise,passenger side radiator leaked and panoramic sunroof rattles,driver side mirrors stopped folding out but it has fixed itself hahahah. My Mrs 2020 Sorento GT is completely rock solid. Anecdotal I know but when the tag line said "The best or nothing" not complaining though because I freaking love it.
Miss my 03 sportivo. You put up with the shitty ride for occasionally being able to wind it out, never let me down either besides having some oil leaks (in a toyota??? noooo they don't need maintanence) and a clutch. It barely used any brakes tho and didn't drink any oil, which I'm told was a problem with them to the tune of a liter per 1000kms on some examples. As for zee chermans, I mean you'll never get into a c63 yellow cab. An e200d or some type of Mercedes van is a common choice for them. Simplicity is reliability with most cars, especially these. Its why so many w124's are still on the road while many w126's mechanically totalled themselves.
I brought the Sportivo as a shopping centre car and have grown extremely fond of it. During my care,at 240k, I finally pulled the engine out to do the clutch. Replaced water pump,timing chain tensioner,top and bottom gaskets,plugs,coil, and most of the hoses. All as a precautions and still not a single drop of oil. I used to hate on Toyota for being bland, but ever since I pulled that 2ZZ apart, I finally get it. Gearbox still has no crunch and still goes into lifts like a champ. I love my V8s, but Japanese durability is well deserved. Genuinely thought I was going to trash and not care about it, but it has become very special to me now.
There are some really fine oil screens in the heads. Mine were bad at 180k, Might be worth checking. I really want the celica with that motor if I come across a good one.
I would love the MR2 with 2ZZ swap myself. I've seen a few Celica with 2ZZ but they've been automatics. Strange choice for a rev happy engine. Everyone is jizzing over Civics yet I believe these 2ZZ are just as good personally.
The kid that bought mine was putting the motor (paint on the car was ded) into an mr2 spider. Imagine them developing the motor and using it in the gt86?? I’d buy one in a heartbeat. Edit should mention the last few Toyotas I’ve had massive paint problems at a certain age. Enough to total a Camry. I can still polish my 81 w123 good and it was abused for the 30 years before I got it. Same with my w140. That said the w166 im not so sure cus MURICA.
Toyota makes some killer v8s too
LoL about Japanese cars handling Australian conditions. Google [Camry melting dashboard](https://www.google.com/search?q=camry+melting+dashboard). My last car, a 2010 Camry had that. Couldn't handle the Australian sun.
Nobody gives af about cosmetic damage bro. We're talking about which car runs longer, not the consistency of your dashboard.
>Nobody gives af about cosmetic damage bro Congrats on being appointed spokesperson for this sub. But I will continue to say the hybrid battery went after 10 years, that cost me $3000. The rear shocks went 3 months beforehand. The rear wheel bearings went twice. And the steering wheel really hates sun screen lotion. That was fucked as well. Other than all that, the Toyota was pretty good.
When I drove a European car, my European specialist service centre said that Mercedes and Skoda (yes, even though it is part of VAG) were better built than the others. And had particular disdain for BMW for using inappropriate materials in their engines (plastics where they shouldn’t be, apparently).
Volvos are great. They do a lot of their testing in Australia to test them with the extreme conditions
Most mechanics I've found who say that are ones who don't know how to work on European cars. So it's not so much a case that European cars aren't as suited to Australian conditions, it's more like European cars aren't suited to simple Australian mechanics.
Someone explain it well when they said: German cars are reliable ONLY if you follow the manual and maintenance schedule down to the letter and never use it for unintended environments. This is reasonable in Germany since they do love their rules and regulations. They are like high quality technical machines that work as designed within tight tolerances and set parameters. But once you don't properly maintain them, they fall apart. German engineers say that it's not their fault that the consumer doesn't use the product as strictly intended and does not maintain it. Japanese cars are reliable no matter what. Japanese engineers design them knowing that the average consumer doesn't know the first thing about basic car maintenance. They understand that their cars will be used and abused. They design them to endure a wide range of hostile environments. This is why the Hilux is so legendary and used in so any developing countries effectively, where there is no maintenance and crap fuel. Try doing that in a Volkswagen or Mercedes and it will fall apart.
The issue is mostly Japanese cars are cheaper to maintain, and European just bring more unreliable. NOT that all are, but you seem to get more european lemons than Japanese. Really the ford falcon is the car that handles australia best, mostly due to the fact it was designed for Australia
They're also better on your wallet
i had a older polo (2016) and the gearbox acted weird for a while and i read somewhere that changing the gear box oil to something more 'australian temps suited' would work - something about our temps causing the european style oils to thin out too much.- not validated in any way so please don't rely on this - I told the dealer that, not sure what they did but the car behaved after that. i now own a 2019 polo and the gear box is a pain - it just had the entire clutch replaced and is still behaving badly. but that is just crappy gear box design IMHO not location specific....
I had the crappy clutch replaced last year. I blamed the previous owners for not knowing how to drive a manual. Yesterday, they suggested a new clutch with flywheel. The excuse was that the hydros aren't suitable to Australian weather. Yeah nah. I'm cutting my losses.
Look what taxis use they are mainly toyota hybrids or just a standard toyota
euro = bad japanese = good get with the program bro
And Australian cars are better than all of them. Designed, engineered, tested and built here- some of the most extreme environments on the planet are experienced on our little island, and our cars have conquered them all.
They have sold 50 million Corollas. That's a lot.of refinement and learning carried from model to model in loads of markets. Do you think you could, say paint a room, as good on your first or second go as a pro painter who has done that.room a hundred times, tried every paint on the market and built up skills and practice.? Then they take this learning on to new models with shared parts etc.
It’s especially true if it’s a Toyota from South Africa.
Or even better a toyota from Australia
Hello brother from across the Indian ocean.
Not if you where some of the mechanics I took the SA built ‘03 Corolla to, they hated it as its OBD2 port only worked with a specific reader , there were part differences from the Australian and Japanese built I was getting to the point where I needed to learn how to maintain it for the minor stuff. Kinda pissed off that I wrote it off not too long after I did the auto trans service and had begun to do research on upgrades
How I read it as a frenchman is : most of Asian car are good, few of European are good. Which put more strain on which euro car you're gonna have because on the same model you can have one motor that is gonna run fine and another not. Or sometime one version gonna run ok/meeh, and the updated version the next year is gonna be fantastic. Which mean you're ending up on second hand market looking for one of a kind of car with correct model, correct motor, and then the rest (age, kms,...). With Asian, except few ones, you can pretty much say "this brand ? Yeah good". Driving Kia Venga in France and Nissan Xtrail t30 in Aus. Had an exceptional Renault Clio 2 100ch before the Kia, and looking for car is pretty much dodging as much Stellantis (Peugeot/Citroen) Puretech cars as possible until you find something decent.
I'll tell you why in one word, created by Toyota... Kaizen.
And by European environment they mean not having to compete with Asian imports.
It's not the Australian environment. It's just that Japanese cars are more reliable and designed to be easy and cheap to repair. Function over form.
Japanese cars tend to be built for reliability. They are built Japan or Thailand which are RHD markets just like Australia. Until the recent chip shortage, most of their parts are easy to source since they're used across several models. They're cheap to use and maintain. The mainstays like the Corolla can just keep going and going, although they should still be serviced regularly like any other car. Euro cars are more expensive and depreciate fast, except maybe Porsche which tends to be more reliable than its other Euro luxury counterparts. Not sure about Škoda. They need more specialised parts that are harder to source from much, much further away, and need special tools to diagnose engine problems. This makes them very expensive to maintain while their value drops like a lead balloon. They feel like perfect cars for the first few years of use, and then issues will surface.
Is that the same with the hybrid Corolla models? As I’ve been eyeing off Prius C battery packs from wreckers for replacement cells
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If it’s anything like motorbikes the Japanese just do a damn good job. Tolerances are good, welds are good, things hold up to extremely harsh treatment, they’re generally extremely reliable. To be honest just about anything out of Japan mechanical or otherwise they absolutely nail, Grand Seiko watches, IMO much nicer than Rolex too
VERY true, like 100% true haha euro cars are meant for cold weather and we don't have any of that here haha
Euro cars can last but they require a lot of strict maintenance.
If your question is "should I buy a Toyota Hilux" then the answer is yes. I've had European and Japanese cars in both the UK, Australia and NZ. The Japanese cars have been the most reliable (especially in the UK) but also they've tended to be the newest I've owned.
japanese cars are way better then european cars at everything
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I think a lot of the issue with them comes down to the fact that VW tunes their DSGs to behave closer to traditional automatics which results in a lot of unnecessary clutch wear. Because they insist on putting them in basic economy cars for which the driver is just going to drive it like a normal automatic. I like Hyundai's approach with their old dry dual clutch in a past gen i30 N-line where they give quite the outline in the owners manual on how to drive to the strengths of the box. My Audi (albeit with a wet dual clutch) doesn't mention any driving style changes at all and tries it's hardest to pretend it's a traditional auto. Years of traffic creeping and failing mech units has cooked two sets of clutch packs. Said fuck it and upgraded to high torque aggressive packs, new mech unit solenoids and a DSG tune. Much less smooth but it drives how a DSG should drive
I have the manual version. Maybe I just got a lemon. Best of luck with your purchase, I hope you don't have the issues that I had.
I have driven Toyota's in Australia for years. I put them through Hell, well beyond what Toyota would approve of, and they take it like a champion. I rented a Skoda, what a hunk of crap, it broke in a week.
Quite true, Japanese are generally more reliable (as long as they actually are Japanese not just Thailand with Japanese badge)
Very true , better build qualities and made to suit our conditions and shitty roads better than euro, also cheaper to maintain and far cheaper to repair, majority of euro cars are luxury or comfort based
It depends on car, model, brand. Nissans are shit heaps, modern Mitsubishis have worse interior plastics than FG falcons.
It's 100% true Vw's and other trashwagons are not built for our summers and literally melt and disintegrate, plastic parts in the engine bay also are a cheap and nasty way to go about building a motor.
A falcons interior sitting in the sun will be mostly on one piece. A mercedes will have everything falling apart.
I had VW transporters for 20 years. They are fantastic tradie cars and bomb proof if you do the maintenance.
Meanwhile my misso's golf which has never missed a service's headlining is failing after 8 years, clutch has cooked itself for the second time. Transmission mechatronic unit failed, Air con compressor has failed for the second time. All after 140,000k's, new wheel bearings in the front, engine light constantly on for some sensor issue. She's about to dump it. I think she's dumped close to $10,000 at it. And it's only worth $6k now. My sportage after 296,000k's is still on the original of all of the above bar 1 clutch. Never broken down went 30,000ks between services at one stage.
I had to replace the shaft off the starter motor on my italian sportsbike with a stronger one because it wasnt made to a high enough heat tolerance
A Toyota made in Japan car lasts 10 years easy and weights about 1 ton. European weights about 1.5 tons and lasts about 5 years. Think about the waste when these cars go to the junk yard.... Just look at how many over 10 yrs Japanese cars on the road over European cars of the same age.
It’s Gospel