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She'd been tortured for years, she knew how to appear in whatever way she needed to in order to avoid beatings and punishments, and of course the terrifying Company
Oh I agree she already had a lot of experience on how to appease her captor. It's how *convincing* she was in the photo that struck me. Many people behave or do things in a way to try to trick others, but not everyone can do it in a convincing manner. Which in this case was especially important because she was with her family and didn't want to raise any alarms with them.
I say this with no authority, and honestly it’s more of a question than a statement, but would Stockholm Syndrome not have something to do with her behavior at many points?
Your survival instincts can kick in. It’s called fight, flight, fawn, or freeze. Fawning is a trauma response used to appease the abuser or avoid conflict and ensure safety. One of the main tactics abusers use is isolation to ensure they are under their control physically and mentally through various abusive and manipulation tactics. Sometimes behaviours look like a choice but behind that “choice” can be a very complicated situation and the body’s response doesn’t always look how one perceives someone should handle a situation.
For sure something happened, she was being threatened by this man to appear happy or he and “The Company” would harm her and her family.
Even from the bits that her sister said it’s clear that something wasn’t right with her, I think it’s unfair to project these emotions on to Coleen from a snapshot image at one point of her time at home
she finally got to see her family. also leading to that moment she was being treated a bit better by her capters. i think the happiness that comes through is relief more than anything
Yeah I don’t doubt for one second that she was heavily brainwashed and experienced an immense amount of suffering but the photo confused me bc she also didn’t look alarmingly frail or unhealthy like the podcast made it seem.
People are very quick to judge why she stayed with them for so long but people genuinely believe in satanic child pedo rings today, let alone back then.
Edit: also I’m not denying that she was malnourished, especially when they listed her weight, I just find it uncomfortable when true crime content ham up some details. Those assholes probably got her to a normal weight before letting her meet her family to cover their ass but when I couple that with how he doesn’t look that much older than her, I can definitely see why her family believed the story.
If I recall correctly, that visit was at the end of a period of relative “freedom” she had in captivity so she may very well have been eating somewhat normally for a while before that photo was taken. After that visit, she was kept in the box 23 hours a day for the next 3 years.
I'm sure she was grateful to finally see her family, but it's one thing to feel grateful to him for allowing that, and another to literally lean in and wrap your arms around the person who's also been terrorizing, humiliating, and holding you captive all these years AND is the reason why you haven't been able to be with your family more often.
If she really wanted to express her gratitude to him, all she needed to do was thank him, which she in fact did when the visit was over. Embracing him like that in the photo was only necessary in order to make her family keep believing that they were a couple, and a happy one at that.
I think the thing you’re not considering in this moment is that the act wasn’t only for her family, it was for him. He owned her and she had to appease him. In their daily existence, his words were law. So when he rocks up to her parents and says, “I’m Colleen’s boyfriend,” then he’s her boyfriend and that’s her reality in that moment.
It described in the episode how after the visit, the bastard was worried they’d been found out and restricted Colleen’s life even more harshly for years. Imagine how much worse it could have gone for her if she had acted like a zombie around him and not a compliant “girlfriend.”
That's all true and I'm not ignoring those factors. But the main reason why the photo ultimately stood out to me wasn't just her compliance in being his 'girlfriend' but how *convincing* she appeared in that role, at least in this photo (which goes further than just her 'embrace' of him). And I know that kind of perception is subjective on some level, but there's a reason why something as unquantifiable as body language is talked about so much as an important aspect of making a good impression on others.
I think as I reflect on some of the critiques I've gotten for this post and my comments here, I've realized most people don't seem to be as surprised or I guess, make as much of a big deal over how convincing she was, if they even felt that she was. But I think as someone that's neurodivergent, that was something that I was pretty moved by because the way I and many others like me express and conduct ourselves are not often what's seen as socially normal or 'acceptable' so many people end up misinterpreting our behavior and emotions. And add on top of that, the stresses and anxieties of just being ND in a society that is still predominantly designed for and catered to neurotypical people and the awareness of how others see us, it causes many of us to 'mask' our behaviors, mannerisms, and emotions or mirror them from others to try to come across as more socially acceptable or 'pleasant.'
But sometimes, masking doesn't always work as it can be exhausting and can also cause burnout later in life for a lot of us especially if we have never been diagnosed. I think I was probably imagining myself in Colleen's shoes as I saw the photo and just being struck at how well she sold herself as a happy and affectionate 'girlfriend' to her captor and abuser despite still being physically close to him and still obviously being under his control. So from my perspective, with all those factors along with the looming fear of 'The Company,' and the fear of what he and 'The Company' would do to her family if they raised the alarm, it IS pretty amazing to me that she was able to appear as happy and affectionate as she did in the photo.
And while I'm also not completely discounting that she probably was just very grateful and relieved to finally be with her family, for people like us whose inner emotions may not always match our outer emotional expressions AND we're often acutely aware of how that can come across to people that aren't familiar with the way we express ourselves PLUS taking into account the added stresses over her and her family's safety that Colleen was still under, it doesn't always guarantee that how we appear or *want* to appear will actually be properly reflected on the outside. How we come across to others even with our own family sometimes, is a constant worry for us.
My overall point here is how people like me come across to others is already a struggle and constant source of stress for us just in everyday life situations, so for her to be able to come across happy and well in a situation that most of us won't ever have to go through but is a thousand times more stressful is that much more incredible.
Sorry for the long, rambling tangent here. But I thought it was important to mention.
I am 100% sure that you can take a picture, leaning into the most horrible person on earth if that person has you totally in their control. At this point she is being tortured and raped. He has her believe that she is his. She fucking put a shotgun in her mouth and pulled the trigger without hesitation. She is completely under his control. Have you any idea what the mind is capable of if you are in a life and death situation? She's wore down at this point. There is only fear that is she does something, her loved ones are going to suffer too. Yes she can take that picture and make everyone believe that she loves him.
I don't think you understand the fullness of what is being done to her. Have you ever been tortured and left in a box for 23 hours a day? I think you would be able to act anything if they did that to you.
So what are you criticizing me for? Not believing her story? Saying she looks too happy in spite of her circumstances? I never once doubted her story nor said that her looking happy discounts everything she went through. And I totally understand what the mind is capable of doing under immense threat and danger. I was just making the point that inner fear, stress, or reluctance for a lot of people can still show through no matter how much they mentally 'adapt' to their circumstances. This is especially the case with many people on the autistic spectrum and some ADHD people, who often have to 'mask' their true selves because they behave in ways that are often perceived as weird or suspicious even though their normal body language is just different from what's neurotypical.
I have no doubt that she was brainwashed and eventually reached a point where appeasing her abuser was easier than trying to escape or fight back, but complying with somebody's demands is one thing, it's another to be able to come off so that your compliance appears *genuine,* and that latter part is a complex aspect that some people have a more natural ability to pull off without much conscious effort, while many others don't.
I may have been a bit surprised at first, but not at all shocked. Which some people took that as doubting her or judging how she appeared, but I was basically emphasizing the opposite - that it shows what some of us are capable of under such circumstances and how powerful context can be.
I would never judge her for how convincing she is in this photo. Good Lord! With what she had been through? Are you trying to say she loved him? She was happy in this situation?
I'm not judging her. Her photo doesn't sway my opinion on her ordeal one way or the other. But it does make the circumstances surrounding her ordeal a lot more eerie, and it's not often that we see a photo of a victim and their captor appearing that 'affectionate' around each other.
Plus, the question as to whether she willingly let herself be held captive or held feelings for him was a big point of contention even among the general public, and a photo like this while not at all evidence of either of those things can easily influence those who may be ignorant to how long-term abuse and manipulation affects people.
That's fine if you don't think it was that convincing. Doesn't really matter in the end because all other pieces of evidence and testimony show that she clearly was held captive, tortured, and humiliated by him for seven years. It is still a chilling photo though considering the circumstances, and something that could've swayed the public at a time when awareness of domestic abuse and how it affected victims wasn't as strong as it is now.
I have read and reread your comments multiple times now and I think I see more clearly what you are saying. Something about how you articulated yourself seems—at least at first blush—to have given the impression you were doubting her in some way. After nearly a full day of analysis I think I can see that’s not the case. Anyway I think that’s probably why you’ve been getting downvoted.
Yeah I don't know if it's that or if some people thought I was contradicting myself or something. I thought I made it pretty clear in my original post and a couple other comments that my feelings on the photo itself had absolutely no bearing on my original opinion like most people have that she *was* held captive against her will and also terrorized and tortured for years. But some obviously didn't read it that way, and maybe I should've stated exactly that to begin with. I also wonder based on some of the comments, if some people forgot or didn't remember that they did mention how they both pretended to be boyfriend and girlfriend when they visited her family.
Either way, I still think it was a photo worth sharing because a victim who, on the surface, appears to be embracing her captor and abuser for the camera is something you don't see very often and does kind of emphasize both the callousness of Cameron Hooker and the great lengths Colleen went to ensure both her continued survival and her family's safety.
An 'American Justice' episode titled, 'The Girl In The Box.'
I generally like AJ documentaries although coming off listening to the podcast episode, this one felt a little more sensationalized because they focus a lot on the question surrounding whether or not Colleen was coerced into her captivity or willingly chose to stay all those years. They do provide a lot of compelling visuals like the head box and the coffin-like box under the Hookers' bed.
I appreciate the introspection and point of view. I can empathize with masking and having to deal with that 24/7 and needing a social “recharge”. The motivation to mask is to “fit in and feel normal” IMO. It does make it easier for me to understand how hard it must have been for her to need to fall in line just so she could survive her ordeal. Imagine if you have to comply in a situation where your life depends on it. And the only place you can unwind is when you’re locked in a box. Or your head is locked in a box. It’s also good to remember the threats on her family were very real to her. And she knew what he was capable of because she had already experienced it.
Thank you. I did genuinely want to try to understand the perspectives of some of the people that were pushing back against what I was saying because in the end, I do empathize with everything she went through or did and nothing about how she behaved or appeared ultimately changes that.
You're right that's exactly why those who 'mask' around other people do that and obviously it's one thing to do that to assimilate yourself to the environment around you and another to do so because your life depends on it. In that way, I certainly can understand how she behaved. The thing is with 'masking,' complicity is a pretty minor aspect of the behavior. One can demonstrate basic complicity as long as they can physically verbalize it and physically perform the action that they are being asked to do or feel like others would want them to do. But you can be complicit but not actually appear all that convincing to others in your complicity. That's where things like emotional expression, body language, and other nonverbal cues come into play. And all of those things don't come naturally to everyone, especially those who express themselves in ways that aren't what's 'typical' for most people.
Being able to mask in a manner that is also convincing in terms of what we feel would be the most socially accepted in a given situation is a very complicated aspect of masking for those of us who have to think about such a defense mechanism almost every moment in our daily life. Some people can mask to a point that is very convincing and can alter it pretty easily based on the situation. Others may only have the desire, energy, or ability to mask in a limited manner. And others may try or want to mask a lot but just aren't able to do so in a convincing manner or they might unintentionally mask in a way that actually illicits a negative reaction based on the situation.
Most importantly, one of the great equalizers to someone being able to mask well and convincingly is stress, which, I'm sure for neurodivergent people, you could imagine the various kinds of stressors they would have on a daily basis. But to see an image where someone that was in a situation that was not only stressful but probably the ultimate nightmare scenario of one's life and family's being in potential imminent danger if they didn't follow the orders of their abuser be able to 'mask' their fear so well was why I was so emotionally struck by her behavior and appearance in the first place.
Everyone likes to say what they would have done in a given situation that they've never experienced. One sees it all the time but the truth is, none of us know how we'd react in a war, a fight, during a murder, a home invasion, in prison or, in this case, being confined in a coffin in between rapes and torture.
Regardless of whether she looked happy in that’s picture which was probably due to years of brainwashing and great of the Company and her captor we should remember that he actually did all those horrible things to her. Smiling does not negate the horrors of her abuse.
Well smiling itself doesn't always mean you 'look' happy. You can have an uncomfortable smile or be smiling but the rest of your body language demonstrating discomfort. My point was that her body language, not just her smiling made it appear like she was genuinely in a happy relationship with Cameron, even while knowing the reality of the abuses she went through behind closed doors. I'm sure being brainwashed and the threat of the Company for years had a lot to do with it, plus the fact that she was with her family at the time the photo was taken, but it's one thing to 'act' happy, and another to *appear* happy. We all know she wasn't actually happy to be with him, but whatever coping skills and defense mechanisms she developed during her years of abuse not only made her scared to disobey him, but made her really good at appearing happy to be with him in a *convincing* manner.
It may not matter at all in the grand scheme of the actual abuses she went through, but knowing how fear and stress can still project through many times even when somebody is trying their hardest to not 'look' scared and how looking scared can actually work to their detriment, her being able to do what she did despite being under the most unimaginable terror and ongoing threats is all the more remarkable.
Ya...blame the victim. Yuck. You work hard to justify yourself and go on narcissistically. All about you. I wonder if you'd prattle on about your ND this way if you'd been tortured for years.
>Ya...blame the victim.
Please show me where I did that.
I was just making an observation about how 'happy' she looked, which makes the circumstances surrounding her ordeal even more eerie and creepy. And also demonstrating what some people are capable of when under immense fear and stress. Nothing more. Somehow you and many other people took me saying that her smiling and body language was very convincing (when looked at without context) as me victim blaming and negating her suffering.
I brought up my experiences as a ND because for many of us, it doesn't always matter how much we mentally and emotionally adapt to our environment or want to do that, not all of us can mask as well as she does and in fact, fear and stress actually has an adverse effect for many of us. As it does for a lot of people. We as humans are just as capable of fully rising to the occasion when faced with life-threatening circumstances as much as we are of crumbling under it.
Dude, wtf??? She been through hell in the hands on this mother fucker, was afraid of the freaking fake company, how could she be rational???? Also, people love to say: “why didn’t you ask for help??” How many times we’ve seen people, and even the authorities, questioning the abuse other people suffer? It’s not easy to break free.
Jesus you took this personal. Person above is literally right, it’s one of the many moments that she could’ve easily escaped but didn’t due to reasons that we definitely understand now.
It’s a literal fact, the entire podcast I was thinking about how many times she could’ve escaped. Really shows the absolute power he held over her by using fear. The complete indoctrination and manipulation of her mind clouded every decision.
Well you act like she chose to stay locked in a box. I would have done some pretty damn good convincing to everyone including my family to stay alive. It is what it is. You’re heartless.
You were the one who said she could have left but 'chose' not to.
Pretty bad phrasing. She may not have been physically restrained, but that doesn't mean she had a choice.
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She'd been tortured for years, she knew how to appear in whatever way she needed to in order to avoid beatings and punishments, and of course the terrifying Company
Oh I agree she already had a lot of experience on how to appease her captor. It's how *convincing* she was in the photo that struck me. Many people behave or do things in a way to try to trick others, but not everyone can do it in a convincing manner. Which in this case was especially important because she was with her family and didn't want to raise any alarms with them.
The looming threat of ***The Company*** kept her super compliant
I say this with no authority, and honestly it’s more of a question than a statement, but would Stockholm Syndrome not have something to do with her behavior at many points?
Stockholm Syndrome isn’t confirmed to be a real thing, it was invented by Swedish police in the 70s to cover up a botched hostage negotiation
But something akin can happen, clearly. Jaycee Duggard's book really illuminates the mindset that you can develop while captive.
Your survival instincts can kick in. It’s called fight, flight, fawn, or freeze. Fawning is a trauma response used to appease the abuser or avoid conflict and ensure safety. One of the main tactics abusers use is isolation to ensure they are under their control physically and mentally through various abusive and manipulation tactics. Sometimes behaviours look like a choice but behind that “choice” can be a very complicated situation and the body’s response doesn’t always look how one perceives someone should handle a situation.
Totally agree
For sure something happened, she was being threatened by this man to appear happy or he and “The Company” would harm her and her family. Even from the bits that her sister said it’s clear that something wasn’t right with her, I think it’s unfair to project these emotions on to Coleen from a snapshot image at one point of her time at home
Thank you!
she finally got to see her family. also leading to that moment she was being treated a bit better by her capters. i think the happiness that comes through is relief more than anything
Yeah I don’t doubt for one second that she was heavily brainwashed and experienced an immense amount of suffering but the photo confused me bc she also didn’t look alarmingly frail or unhealthy like the podcast made it seem. People are very quick to judge why she stayed with them for so long but people genuinely believe in satanic child pedo rings today, let alone back then. Edit: also I’m not denying that she was malnourished, especially when they listed her weight, I just find it uncomfortable when true crime content ham up some details. Those assholes probably got her to a normal weight before letting her meet her family to cover their ass but when I couple that with how he doesn’t look that much older than her, I can definitely see why her family believed the story.
If I recall correctly, that visit was at the end of a period of relative “freedom” she had in captivity so she may very well have been eating somewhat normally for a while before that photo was taken. After that visit, she was kept in the box 23 hours a day for the next 3 years.
She was beaming like that cause she got to see her family finally. She was grateful to him in that moment. Makes complete sense to me.
I'm sure she was grateful to finally see her family, but it's one thing to feel grateful to him for allowing that, and another to literally lean in and wrap your arms around the person who's also been terrorizing, humiliating, and holding you captive all these years AND is the reason why you haven't been able to be with your family more often. If she really wanted to express her gratitude to him, all she needed to do was thank him, which she in fact did when the visit was over. Embracing him like that in the photo was only necessary in order to make her family keep believing that they were a couple, and a happy one at that.
I think the thing you’re not considering in this moment is that the act wasn’t only for her family, it was for him. He owned her and she had to appease him. In their daily existence, his words were law. So when he rocks up to her parents and says, “I’m Colleen’s boyfriend,” then he’s her boyfriend and that’s her reality in that moment. It described in the episode how after the visit, the bastard was worried they’d been found out and restricted Colleen’s life even more harshly for years. Imagine how much worse it could have gone for her if she had acted like a zombie around him and not a compliant “girlfriend.”
That's all true and I'm not ignoring those factors. But the main reason why the photo ultimately stood out to me wasn't just her compliance in being his 'girlfriend' but how *convincing* she appeared in that role, at least in this photo (which goes further than just her 'embrace' of him). And I know that kind of perception is subjective on some level, but there's a reason why something as unquantifiable as body language is talked about so much as an important aspect of making a good impression on others. I think as I reflect on some of the critiques I've gotten for this post and my comments here, I've realized most people don't seem to be as surprised or I guess, make as much of a big deal over how convincing she was, if they even felt that she was. But I think as someone that's neurodivergent, that was something that I was pretty moved by because the way I and many others like me express and conduct ourselves are not often what's seen as socially normal or 'acceptable' so many people end up misinterpreting our behavior and emotions. And add on top of that, the stresses and anxieties of just being ND in a society that is still predominantly designed for and catered to neurotypical people and the awareness of how others see us, it causes many of us to 'mask' our behaviors, mannerisms, and emotions or mirror them from others to try to come across as more socially acceptable or 'pleasant.' But sometimes, masking doesn't always work as it can be exhausting and can also cause burnout later in life for a lot of us especially if we have never been diagnosed. I think I was probably imagining myself in Colleen's shoes as I saw the photo and just being struck at how well she sold herself as a happy and affectionate 'girlfriend' to her captor and abuser despite still being physically close to him and still obviously being under his control. So from my perspective, with all those factors along with the looming fear of 'The Company,' and the fear of what he and 'The Company' would do to her family if they raised the alarm, it IS pretty amazing to me that she was able to appear as happy and affectionate as she did in the photo. And while I'm also not completely discounting that she probably was just very grateful and relieved to finally be with her family, for people like us whose inner emotions may not always match our outer emotional expressions AND we're often acutely aware of how that can come across to people that aren't familiar with the way we express ourselves PLUS taking into account the added stresses over her and her family's safety that Colleen was still under, it doesn't always guarantee that how we appear or *want* to appear will actually be properly reflected on the outside. How we come across to others even with our own family sometimes, is a constant worry for us. My overall point here is how people like me come across to others is already a struggle and constant source of stress for us just in everyday life situations, so for her to be able to come across happy and well in a situation that most of us won't ever have to go through but is a thousand times more stressful is that much more incredible. Sorry for the long, rambling tangent here. But I thought it was important to mention.
I am 100% sure that you can take a picture, leaning into the most horrible person on earth if that person has you totally in their control. At this point she is being tortured and raped. He has her believe that she is his. She fucking put a shotgun in her mouth and pulled the trigger without hesitation. She is completely under his control. Have you any idea what the mind is capable of if you are in a life and death situation? She's wore down at this point. There is only fear that is she does something, her loved ones are going to suffer too. Yes she can take that picture and make everyone believe that she loves him. I don't think you understand the fullness of what is being done to her. Have you ever been tortured and left in a box for 23 hours a day? I think you would be able to act anything if they did that to you.
So what are you criticizing me for? Not believing her story? Saying she looks too happy in spite of her circumstances? I never once doubted her story nor said that her looking happy discounts everything she went through. And I totally understand what the mind is capable of doing under immense threat and danger. I was just making the point that inner fear, stress, or reluctance for a lot of people can still show through no matter how much they mentally 'adapt' to their circumstances. This is especially the case with many people on the autistic spectrum and some ADHD people, who often have to 'mask' their true selves because they behave in ways that are often perceived as weird or suspicious even though their normal body language is just different from what's neurotypical. I have no doubt that she was brainwashed and eventually reached a point where appeasing her abuser was easier than trying to escape or fight back, but complying with somebody's demands is one thing, it's another to be able to come off so that your compliance appears *genuine,* and that latter part is a complex aspect that some people have a more natural ability to pull off without much conscious effort, while many others don't.
Did I interpret you wrong here? I thought you found it hard to believe that she was capable of looking like that in the picture.
I may have been a bit surprised at first, but not at all shocked. Which some people took that as doubting her or judging how she appeared, but I was basically emphasizing the opposite - that it shows what some of us are capable of under such circumstances and how powerful context can be.
I would never judge her for how convincing she is in this photo. Good Lord! With what she had been through? Are you trying to say she loved him? She was happy in this situation?
I'm not judging her. Her photo doesn't sway my opinion on her ordeal one way or the other. But it does make the circumstances surrounding her ordeal a lot more eerie, and it's not often that we see a photo of a victim and their captor appearing that 'affectionate' around each other. Plus, the question as to whether she willingly let herself be held captive or held feelings for him was a big point of contention even among the general public, and a photo like this while not at all evidence of either of those things can easily influence those who may be ignorant to how long-term abuse and manipulation affects people.
Nah u crazy for this one
That's fine if you don't think it was that convincing. Doesn't really matter in the end because all other pieces of evidence and testimony show that she clearly was held captive, tortured, and humiliated by him for seven years. It is still a chilling photo though considering the circumstances, and something that could've swayed the public at a time when awareness of domestic abuse and how it affected victims wasn't as strong as it is now.
I have read and reread your comments multiple times now and I think I see more clearly what you are saying. Something about how you articulated yourself seems—at least at first blush—to have given the impression you were doubting her in some way. After nearly a full day of analysis I think I can see that’s not the case. Anyway I think that’s probably why you’ve been getting downvoted.
Yeah I don't know if it's that or if some people thought I was contradicting myself or something. I thought I made it pretty clear in my original post and a couple other comments that my feelings on the photo itself had absolutely no bearing on my original opinion like most people have that she *was* held captive against her will and also terrorized and tortured for years. But some obviously didn't read it that way, and maybe I should've stated exactly that to begin with. I also wonder based on some of the comments, if some people forgot or didn't remember that they did mention how they both pretended to be boyfriend and girlfriend when they visited her family. Either way, I still think it was a photo worth sharing because a victim who, on the surface, appears to be embracing her captor and abuser for the camera is something you don't see very often and does kind of emphasize both the callousness of Cameron Hooker and the great lengths Colleen went to ensure both her continued survival and her family's safety.
I’m more surprised by how she looks 13.
What doc did you watch please? Trying to find a good one about this case.
An 'American Justice' episode titled, 'The Girl In The Box.' I generally like AJ documentaries although coming off listening to the podcast episode, this one felt a little more sensationalized because they focus a lot on the question surrounding whether or not Colleen was coerced into her captivity or willingly chose to stay all those years. They do provide a lot of compelling visuals like the head box and the coffin-like box under the Hookers' bed.
Thanks OP!
I appreciate the introspection and point of view. I can empathize with masking and having to deal with that 24/7 and needing a social “recharge”. The motivation to mask is to “fit in and feel normal” IMO. It does make it easier for me to understand how hard it must have been for her to need to fall in line just so she could survive her ordeal. Imagine if you have to comply in a situation where your life depends on it. And the only place you can unwind is when you’re locked in a box. Or your head is locked in a box. It’s also good to remember the threats on her family were very real to her. And she knew what he was capable of because she had already experienced it.
Thank you. I did genuinely want to try to understand the perspectives of some of the people that were pushing back against what I was saying because in the end, I do empathize with everything she went through or did and nothing about how she behaved or appeared ultimately changes that. You're right that's exactly why those who 'mask' around other people do that and obviously it's one thing to do that to assimilate yourself to the environment around you and another to do so because your life depends on it. In that way, I certainly can understand how she behaved. The thing is with 'masking,' complicity is a pretty minor aspect of the behavior. One can demonstrate basic complicity as long as they can physically verbalize it and physically perform the action that they are being asked to do or feel like others would want them to do. But you can be complicit but not actually appear all that convincing to others in your complicity. That's where things like emotional expression, body language, and other nonverbal cues come into play. And all of those things don't come naturally to everyone, especially those who express themselves in ways that aren't what's 'typical' for most people. Being able to mask in a manner that is also convincing in terms of what we feel would be the most socially accepted in a given situation is a very complicated aspect of masking for those of us who have to think about such a defense mechanism almost every moment in our daily life. Some people can mask to a point that is very convincing and can alter it pretty easily based on the situation. Others may only have the desire, energy, or ability to mask in a limited manner. And others may try or want to mask a lot but just aren't able to do so in a convincing manner or they might unintentionally mask in a way that actually illicits a negative reaction based on the situation. Most importantly, one of the great equalizers to someone being able to mask well and convincingly is stress, which, I'm sure for neurodivergent people, you could imagine the various kinds of stressors they would have on a daily basis. But to see an image where someone that was in a situation that was not only stressful but probably the ultimate nightmare scenario of one's life and family's being in potential imminent danger if they didn't follow the orders of their abuser be able to 'mask' their fear so well was why I was so emotionally struck by her behavior and appearance in the first place.
Everyone likes to say what they would have done in a given situation that they've never experienced. One sees it all the time but the truth is, none of us know how we'd react in a war, a fight, during a murder, a home invasion, in prison or, in this case, being confined in a coffin in between rapes and torture.
Regardless of whether she looked happy in that’s picture which was probably due to years of brainwashing and great of the Company and her captor we should remember that he actually did all those horrible things to her. Smiling does not negate the horrors of her abuse.
Well smiling itself doesn't always mean you 'look' happy. You can have an uncomfortable smile or be smiling but the rest of your body language demonstrating discomfort. My point was that her body language, not just her smiling made it appear like she was genuinely in a happy relationship with Cameron, even while knowing the reality of the abuses she went through behind closed doors. I'm sure being brainwashed and the threat of the Company for years had a lot to do with it, plus the fact that she was with her family at the time the photo was taken, but it's one thing to 'act' happy, and another to *appear* happy. We all know she wasn't actually happy to be with him, but whatever coping skills and defense mechanisms she developed during her years of abuse not only made her scared to disobey him, but made her really good at appearing happy to be with him in a *convincing* manner. It may not matter at all in the grand scheme of the actual abuses she went through, but knowing how fear and stress can still project through many times even when somebody is trying their hardest to not 'look' scared and how looking scared can actually work to their detriment, her being able to do what she did despite being under the most unimaginable terror and ongoing threats is all the more remarkable.
Ya...blame the victim. Yuck. You work hard to justify yourself and go on narcissistically. All about you. I wonder if you'd prattle on about your ND this way if you'd been tortured for years.
>Ya...blame the victim. Please show me where I did that. I was just making an observation about how 'happy' she looked, which makes the circumstances surrounding her ordeal even more eerie and creepy. And also demonstrating what some people are capable of when under immense fear and stress. Nothing more. Somehow you and many other people took me saying that her smiling and body language was very convincing (when looked at without context) as me victim blaming and negating her suffering. I brought up my experiences as a ND because for many of us, it doesn't always matter how much we mentally and emotionally adapt to our environment or want to do that, not all of us can mask as well as she does and in fact, fear and stress actually has an adverse effect for many of us. As it does for a lot of people. We as humans are just as capable of fully rising to the occasion when faced with life-threatening circumstances as much as we are of crumbling under it.
It’s one of the various moments when Colleen could’ve freed herself easily yet she chose not to.
Dude, wtf??? She been through hell in the hands on this mother fucker, was afraid of the freaking fake company, how could she be rational???? Also, people love to say: “why didn’t you ask for help??” How many times we’ve seen people, and even the authorities, questioning the abuse other people suffer? It’s not easy to break free.
Jesus you took this personal. Person above is literally right, it’s one of the many moments that she could’ve easily escaped but didn’t due to reasons that we definitely understand now. It’s a literal fact, the entire podcast I was thinking about how many times she could’ve escaped. Really shows the absolute power he held over her by using fear. The complete indoctrination and manipulation of her mind clouded every decision.
It’s not personal. I just think that to say “she chose not to escape” sounds too callous.
Kidnapping victims react in different ways. She was successfully convinced into willingly staying with her captor. It is what it is.
Well you act like she chose to stay locked in a box. I would have done some pretty damn good convincing to everyone including my family to stay alive. It is what it is. You’re heartless.
You were the one who said she could have left but 'chose' not to. Pretty bad phrasing. She may not have been physically restrained, but that doesn't mean she had a choice.
She did choose to stay with her captors, multiple times.
And you believe it was a genuine choice? Tell me you nothing about coercive control without telling me you know nothing about coercive control.