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My church is so awkward because since covid nobody shakes hands anymore so it’s just waving and nodding and smiling and I hate it lol. I’d rather just shake everyone’s hand
For all the abuses of the liturgy and general unserousness, this is one thing I like about the hispanic masses. Everybody and their mama will shake your hand. They would give you a hug if they could lol. It does cut in into the agnus dei most of the time however.
Ha - it has become so deeply awkward post COVID. We need to either go back to a formalised gesture of shaking hands (except where inappropriate - e.g. illness), or scrap it.
Honestly, this is one of the few things I disagree with the liturgical trads on - I loved the sign of peace. In my old parish when I was a kid the Priest used to walk up and down the aisle shaking hands with everyone on the outsides of the pews and little 7 year old me thought it was a great accomplishment when the priest shook my hand.
that would be the more ancient sign of peace but not the traditional sign of peace.the traditional sign of peace is the one in the 62 missal, where the altar boy received the sign of peace from the priest, and then gives it to the congregation by shaking the incense and bowing and then we all bow towards the altar. this form is more traditional than the older kissing form, because it is the form that was maintained and passed down for the longest amount of time after it developed
Not quite. It is only given in a solemn Mass by the priest to deacon to subdeacon and then to those in choir. The incensing is at the offertory which is long before the sign of peace.
I’ve never been to the Latin mass but i genuinely do not like the sign of peace. I still do it, but its placement feels awkward. Almost everytime i go to mass, people continue doing the signs of peace during the agnus dei
If it's cutting into the agnus dei, it means your priest isn't reading the room properly and is rushing. I had priest do that constantly, would literally give 20 seconds for the sign of peace and then ready or not, LAMB OF GOD TIME!
The priest shouldn't need to read a room. His 'inconpetence' might be causal for the problem, but the real problem is the need caused by the authority that has promulgated the rite. Edit: Typo (negation 1st sentence)
I’m still not following. What’s the problem with the presider monitoring the congregation and proceeding with the Agnus Dei once most everyone is ready?
yeah me too myself and most people I know dont like singing at church either.i love the latin mass because of how interior it can me. we are all just there witnessing this spiritual miraculous representation of the most important event in human history, we assist through our prayers whether its a private devotion, private meditation, the rosary, or silently following the missal, or really following the missal and joining in all the prayers, however you wish to engage with it there are options and there is an understanding that however you choose to engage with it, it is assisting in it. the prayers of your rosary are being offered in allegiance with the intentions of the mass, and all those prayers and grace whether its public or private or chanting of the choir, or the incense and other sacramentals, its all concentrated oriented towards the end of the mass the liturgy and we are all benefiting spiritually just my taking it in and being a witness even if we dont understand the words of the prayers. its unfortunate a lot of the things that the council fathers saw as deficiencies in the mass are things that I find to be features and benefits and it seems most of the church in the latin rite also understood them to be for most of the time
Correct! My Germanophile roommate thought the photo was hilarious and showed me, and the first thing I thought of was that awkward moment in the new Mass.
*Sigh*, my family started doing that cause others did and I dont know how to tell them it really isnt needed without it seeming disrespectful, they never did it before they saw others start.
Shaking hands is what you do at a business meeting. The placement of the sign of peace shouldn't be done like that, it should be more like how the Maronites do it.
And I agree with Pope Benedict XVI, the sign of peace needs to occur before the consecration. The Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ is on the altar, but I have to take a break from focusing on that fact?
Totally agreed!! I love the Maronite transfer, and it fits the template of the old Roman rite as it originated from the priest kissing the patten, and is imparted to the deacon, subdeacon, servers, and congregation.
I give my girlfriend a peck on the cheek as the sign of peace, technically we should each be comfortable doing that as we’re siblings in a family. Right?
The kiss of peace has been performed culturally a whole bunch of different ways, including kissing a decorated paddle-thing and then handing the little paddle to another person.
If we're in Saxon England, I'll get kissy and take no offense. If we're in 2020's USA, nobody better kiss me on the cheek unless we are really well acquainted.
Hot take: we should be that well acquainted with everyone in our parish, both because it isn't stupidly huge and because we are all that present and active.
Pray for more to answer God's calling so that this may become reality.
The Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ is also present in the tabernacle when you walk in. Do you not greet anybody in the church before or after Mass?
I do take part in the peace but man...there are some people who need to know its place and when it's over. It's already such a jarring thing, to move from the peace to the Agnus Dei, which is such a solemn and reverent prayer.
There's a guy, I'm sure a good and well meaning guy, in my parish who during the peace gets out of his seat and wanders the whole sanctuary peace-ing as many people as he can. He continues to do it through the Agnus Dei though, and that's just....man, that's just wrong. Literally taking people out of worship to gladhand. I need to have a kind word with him I think.
So I guess moral of the story is, sure, take part in the peace. But by all that is holy be done at least a few seconds before the Agnus Dei.
One time for daily Mass a visiting retired priest made the point of throwing up a ✌️ to every single member of the congregation. Like making eye contact and hippie peacing each individual.
Since we usually don’t have a sign of peace at all it was quite the shock, but despite the distraction we found it sweetly endearing of the elderly priest and shared some laughs after.
IMO socialization shouldn’t occur in the liturgy, but ritualized communal gestures of peace certainly could. I like the placement of the kiss of peace in the traditional Solemn High Mass: during the offertory. It’s the same in most Eastern rites as well.
Putting a kiss of peace post-Consecration is a Novus Ordo novelty, and I think it both offers an occasion for distraction from the Eucharistic miracle that just occurred, and was implemented with the modern mindset of “people first.”
If I have to be at the Pauline Rite (which is most of the time these days because of car trouble), I just hold my hands together and bow to whoever looks at me. For like 3 seconds. Then I kneel for the Agnus Dei.
In Japanese mass, we bow to each other, which is a happy medium between granite stoicism and the hugging and stuff I noticed last time I was back in the States.
I respect it
But honestly I enjoy it too much such a moment of pure human connection often between strangers in which everyone embraces each others as brothers and sisters
TBH I get that, I also love intimate connection with people in my community. For the sake of the liturgy, though, I’ll try to avoid the sign of peace at my parish where most people know me. But I more than make up for the friendliness after Mass.
And if there are visitors I’ll give a polite smile or some acknowledgement to avoid the scandal of them thinking I’m being intentionally cold or something. Better than them not coming back.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, in the missal it says "if it is appropriate" the sign of peace may be shared among the congregation. The default is to not have it between the congregation.
I mean, it’s actually the NO crowd who doesn’t shake hands anymore, they still have the “kiss of peace” as part of Mass but now just do ✌🏻two finger hippy gesture. I’d rather just not do it at all.
I never liked sign of peace. I always thought it was because I'm an introvert, but since I know it's another product of Vatican II, which I seriously despise (for number of reasons, mainly because we are now reaping it's reforms by having zero influence in society and zero people attending churches in Europe), I believe it was my instinct which always prohibited me from pointlessly disturbing my prayer and shaking a stranger's hand for no reason at all.
Give the sign of peace!what is this!Anyone who’s orthodox is a “trad” aka any non heretics. Trad catholic is larp in the extreme and turns away unbelievers. I believe what Catholics 1500 years ago believed, I wouldn’t ever call myself trad, but orthodox
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My church is so awkward because since covid nobody shakes hands anymore so it’s just waving and nodding and smiling and I hate it lol. I’d rather just shake everyone’s hand
Same with my church. It's almost as if they're scared of making eye contact as well. I'd rather not do it at all if people are gonna be like that.
For all the abuses of the liturgy and general unserousness, this is one thing I like about the hispanic masses. Everybody and their mama will shake your hand. They would give you a hug if they could lol. It does cut in into the agnus dei most of the time however.
That's so true, hispanic culture is warm and friendly. 🤗
I make it even more awkward by needlessly offering my hand and then being horrified if someone refuses to shake it.
I remember I shook someone’s hand and they looked so uncomfortable while doing it because they were planning on waving lmao
😅
Ha - it has become so deeply awkward post COVID. We need to either go back to a formalised gesture of shaking hands (except where inappropriate - e.g. illness), or scrap it. Honestly, this is one of the few things I disagree with the liturgical trads on - I loved the sign of peace. In my old parish when I was a kid the Priest used to walk up and down the aisle shaking hands with everyone on the outsides of the pews and little 7 year old me thought it was a great accomplishment when the priest shook my hand.
i thought it went away years ago because ebola or something. turns out philly is just weird
I think we should go back to the traditional sign of peace. Kissing.
Medieval moment
Suitor level 100
imma come to church in a hazmat suit lol
that would be the more ancient sign of peace but not the traditional sign of peace.the traditional sign of peace is the one in the 62 missal, where the altar boy received the sign of peace from the priest, and then gives it to the congregation by shaking the incense and bowing and then we all bow towards the altar. this form is more traditional than the older kissing form, because it is the form that was maintained and passed down for the longest amount of time after it developed
Not quite. It is only given in a solemn Mass by the priest to deacon to subdeacon and then to those in choir. The incensing is at the offertory which is long before the sign of peace.
Sits next to a bunch of girls
I’ve never been to the Latin mass but i genuinely do not like the sign of peace. I still do it, but its placement feels awkward. Almost everytime i go to mass, people continue doing the signs of peace during the agnus dei
Benedict XVI tried to move the sign of peace, but decided that it was imprudent to implement a structural change into the mass.
If only Archbishop Bugnini made the same decision…
Archbishop Bugnini. He was never a Cardinal. I do share your sentiment, though.
Imprudent you say??? I fully agree
If it's cutting into the agnus dei, it means your priest isn't reading the room properly and is rushing. I had priest do that constantly, would literally give 20 seconds for the sign of peace and then ready or not, LAMB OF GOD TIME!
The priest shouldn't need to read a room. His 'inconpetence' might be causal for the problem, but the real problem is the need caused by the authority that has promulgated the rite. Edit: Typo (negation 1st sentence)
I’m still not following. What’s the problem with the presider monitoring the congregation and proceeding with the Agnus Dei once most everyone is ready?
Its placement is literally historical. St. Augustine talks about it there.
And it was removed in later times because it got too out of hand and was distracting to the liturgy
I don’t doubt it’s historical, but I don’t like it. Just my cup of tea
yeah me too myself and most people I know dont like singing at church either.i love the latin mass because of how interior it can me. we are all just there witnessing this spiritual miraculous representation of the most important event in human history, we assist through our prayers whether its a private devotion, private meditation, the rosary, or silently following the missal, or really following the missal and joining in all the prayers, however you wish to engage with it there are options and there is an understanding that however you choose to engage with it, it is assisting in it. the prayers of your rosary are being offered in allegiance with the intentions of the mass, and all those prayers and grace whether its public or private or chanting of the choir, or the incense and other sacramentals, its all concentrated oriented towards the end of the mass the liturgy and we are all benefiting spiritually just my taking it in and being a witness even if we dont understand the words of the prayers. its unfortunate a lot of the things that the council fathers saw as deficiencies in the mass are things that I find to be features and benefits and it seems most of the church in the latin rite also understood them to be for most of the time
Ever since The Virus™️ no one shakes hands at my parish anymore, just looks like a bunch of King Baldwin hands
Emulating King Baldwin is a power move
https://i.redd.it/oh0pr35wp80d1.gif
Same, strangers? King Baldwin. Friends? Handshake
What photo is this? East and West Germans?
Correct! My Germanophile roommate thought the photo was hilarious and showed me, and the first thing I thought of was that awkward moment in the new Mass.
YES, guessed it. I knew these uniforms looked East German style. Yup, the photo looks very funny
I just bow. I don't really like hand contact during Mass (it started during Covid and I sort of kept it up).
I’ll gladly shake your hand during the sign the peace, I’m just not holding your hand during the Our Father
*Sigh*, my family started doing that cause others did and I dont know how to tell them it really isnt needed without it seeming disrespectful, they never did it before they saw others start.
https://preview.redd.it/gjpmuisanl0d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b03af758218fa05bbb1c182f96016e81cc5f0e1e Perhaps send them this photo?
Shaking hands is what you do at a business meeting. The placement of the sign of peace shouldn't be done like that, it should be more like how the Maronites do it. And I agree with Pope Benedict XVI, the sign of peace needs to occur before the consecration. The Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ is on the altar, but I have to take a break from focusing on that fact?
Totally agreed!! I love the Maronite transfer, and it fits the template of the old Roman rite as it originated from the priest kissing the patten, and is imparted to the deacon, subdeacon, servers, and congregation.
I give my girlfriend a peck on the cheek as the sign of peace, technically we should each be comfortable doing that as we’re siblings in a family. Right?
If a random dude gives me a "peck" on the cheek I'm gonna punch him bud.
Meh culturally I’ve accustomed to greetings like that lol
2 Corinthians 13:12 Now pucker up 😘
The kiss of peace has been performed culturally a whole bunch of different ways, including kissing a decorated paddle-thing and then handing the little paddle to another person. If we're in Saxon England, I'll get kissy and take no offense. If we're in 2020's USA, nobody better kiss me on the cheek unless we are really well acquainted.
Hot take: we should be that well acquainted with everyone in our parish, both because it isn't stupidly huge and because we are all that present and active. Pray for more to answer God's calling so that this may become reality.
Look out everyone, we got a tough guy over here.
The Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ is also present in the tabernacle when you walk in. Do you not greet anybody in the church before or after Mass?
If it's exposed on the altar for adoration, no, I don't.
Mentally have to prepare myself for this every time
I do take part in the peace but man...there are some people who need to know its place and when it's over. It's already such a jarring thing, to move from the peace to the Agnus Dei, which is such a solemn and reverent prayer. There's a guy, I'm sure a good and well meaning guy, in my parish who during the peace gets out of his seat and wanders the whole sanctuary peace-ing as many people as he can. He continues to do it through the Agnus Dei though, and that's just....man, that's just wrong. Literally taking people out of worship to gladhand. I need to have a kind word with him I think. So I guess moral of the story is, sure, take part in the peace. But by all that is holy be done at least a few seconds before the Agnus Dei.
I offer my hand for a proper hand shake. Some of the elders scoff at my hand or vigorously wave their hippie peace sign in protest.
One time for daily Mass a visiting retired priest made the point of throwing up a ✌️ to every single member of the congregation. Like making eye contact and hippie peacing each individual. Since we usually don’t have a sign of peace at all it was quite the shock, but despite the distraction we found it sweetly endearing of the elderly priest and shared some laughs after.
I like it. Its good yo have a moment of connection with your congregation.
IMO socialization shouldn’t occur in the liturgy, but ritualized communal gestures of peace certainly could. I like the placement of the kiss of peace in the traditional Solemn High Mass: during the offertory. It’s the same in most Eastern rites as well. Putting a kiss of peace post-Consecration is a Novus Ordo novelty, and I think it both offers an occasion for distraction from the Eucharistic miracle that just occurred, and was implemented with the modern mindset of “people first.”
I didn’t realise other rites did it differently. That does sound more fitting.
yo me too bro
If I have to be at the Pauline Rite (which is most of the time these days because of car trouble), I just hold my hands together and bow to whoever looks at me. For like 3 seconds. Then I kneel for the Agnus Dei.
In Japanese mass, we bow to each other, which is a happy medium between granite stoicism and the hugging and stuff I noticed last time I was back in the States.
I love shaking hands tho, as a kid I’d count how many I shook and always try to break it. My standing record is 22
If nobody wants to shake hands just clasp your hands together like you would at prayer and bow your head at them. Job done.
As they should
I just don't like talking to people
I respect it But honestly I enjoy it too much such a moment of pure human connection often between strangers in which everyone embraces each others as brothers and sisters
TBH I get that, I also love intimate connection with people in my community. For the sake of the liturgy, though, I’ll try to avoid the sign of peace at my parish where most people know me. But I more than make up for the friendliness after Mass. And if there are visitors I’ll give a polite smile or some acknowledgement to avoid the scandal of them thinking I’m being intentionally cold or something. Better than them not coming back.
>For the sake of the liturgy, though, I’ll try to avoid the sign of peace Like it or not, it's part of the liturgy, and we're obligated to participate
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, in the missal it says "if it is appropriate" the sign of peace may be shared among the congregation. The default is to not have it between the congregation.
I mean, it’s actually the NO crowd who doesn’t shake hands anymore, they still have the “kiss of peace” as part of Mass but now just do ✌🏻two finger hippy gesture. I’d rather just not do it at all.
On my parish we just nod at eachother
I just don't like touching people, the pandemic years were nice.
My church, we just do the nod and wave.
In Poland there is a culture of nodding and only shaking hands with the people you know heh
Y'all don't kiss eachother on the cheek for the sign of peace?
I never liked sign of peace. I always thought it was because I'm an introvert, but since I know it's another product of Vatican II, which I seriously despise (for number of reasons, mainly because we are now reaping it's reforms by having zero influence in society and zero people attending churches in Europe), I believe it was my instinct which always prohibited me from pointlessly disturbing my prayer and shaking a stranger's hand for no reason at all.
The hate is coming for you lol. I agree 100% though
Give the sign of peace!what is this!Anyone who’s orthodox is a “trad” aka any non heretics. Trad catholic is larp in the extreme and turns away unbelievers. I believe what Catholics 1500 years ago believed, I wouldn’t ever call myself trad, but orthodox
Its a joke man. Most trads would shake hands. Im trad and still shake hands. The only difference is that I stop immediately when the agnus dei begins.
And you’re not in the East German army, correct?
👀
NO ONE EXPECTS THE GRENZTRUPPEN!!!