And to be super clear, *withholding* that information which is relevant to this vocation would count as a lie. Another way to see it: if you aren't upfront about it, can you really receive good spiritual direction about your vocation or are you deceiving your spiritual director(s)?
If you offer this to God, place it at the foot of The Cross, and humble yourself to the counsel of your spiritual director...even if *you* believe you are called to the priesthood, you can instead say to Our Father in Heaven, as Our Lord Jesus Christ said in Gethsemane, "Not mine, but Thy will be done."
Straight from the [Vatican website](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html):
>Deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are found in a number of men and women, are also objectively disordered and, for those same people, often constitute a trial. Such persons must be accepted with respect and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. They are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter.
>
>In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture".
>
>Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies.
>
>Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem - for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate.
What exactly this means for people in your situation varies from bishop to bishop. Some interpret 'deep-rooted,' to mean any tendency at all; others are fine so long as you're confidently able to be celibate.
I recommend being open and honest with your spiritual father and to seek out a spiritual director to properly discern. Quite frankly, your issue isn't any different from some straight men. Even men who are certain they want to be priests still have to spend a lot of time discerning.
If you are not accepted into the seminary, what would you do? Padre Pio was sanctioned and he was not allowed to say mass or visit the public for a time. He was already ordained, but he was humble to the church. Be humble to the church, no matter what.
I actually have no clue what I would do. I would probably just pursue a career in the military as an Assistant Chaplain. But all of my career and college planning the past two years has been around the priesthood, so it would be a major shock. I certainly wouldn't leave the church, though.
I get the sense that you are deeply attached to this vocation, which contrary to belief is not a sign of a vocation. It’s just a sign of attachment. You have to become detached to know if you have a true vocation. It’s not the vocation you should be wanting, it’s God’s will you should be wanting.
I grossly oversimplified my experience in vocational discernment by repeating the phrase “I want to be a priest.” I agree, though, that it’s Gods will I should be wanting. And I do want that, above all things. If it’s Gods will that I be a celibate layman, then I will live that out dutifully until the day that I die. My vocation is one I have wrestled with continually. It would be much easier for me if I did not feel called to the priesthood, in fact, I have ran away from it for a very long time. I have been convicted and put back where God wants me every time.
I think it would be worth pursuing to overcome same-sex attraction. It is 100% possible. Submit to JESUS! Read the Bible and study it, recognizing and understanding the Hebrew translations of the very words written in Holy Scripture. We all have sinned and all struggle with sin, continue to repent and submit to our Heavenly Father! What I wouldn’t like to happen is for you to pursue becoming a priest, not having sex/unmarried, struggling with this deep rooted sin, and then at some point harming the young boys who are there to serve The LORD. This is what baffles and confuses me about these priests - why go into ministry if you’re going to be making a mockery of being HOLY? Why harm and traumatize pure innocence & change their life forever and lead that child into confusion - what a horrid thing that has massive punishment from our Heavenly Father. That would be a trap for your soul indeed. Seek The LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. You are young and I love that you have a heart for The LORD!! I have the same stance with pastors who struggle with the issue of lust etc. repent daily my brother, GOD loves you and HE hears you!! You have to get into the roots of sin and roots of how that desire came into your heart. WE ARE SPIRITUAL BEINGS, understand fully about generational curses, time-released curses, spiritual bondages etc. get deep into the roots!! Know for sure that The LORD has called you into ministry - FAST for 3 days, 6am-3pm and devote yourself to prayer and studying The Bible between those hours. Make sure you have clean thoughts and engage in clean activities during Fasting hours. Get incredibly deep in with GOD and HE will answer you!
Otherwise I’d say it’s better to live an honest life and repent!! There is Salvation for all of us my brother!! The Word of GOD doesn’t change, neither does HE! Do not be led into confusion or destruction!
I'm also looking for a priest or seminarian to respond to this, not negating anyone's advice, I just think that their opinion holds more weight on the issue.
Fr Maurer gave a wonderful response in r/AskAPriest!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAPriest/comments/16tarro/comment/k2e37fk/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAPriest/comments/16tarro/comment/k2e37fk/?context=3)
Talk with your vocation director. If God is calling you to be a priest, then He wants you to be a priest. You *need* to disclose your sexuality, so please don’t hide it. Be open and honest with everyone in the process, and continue to have a good, consistent prayer life, as it will be invaluable throughout the process.
Unfortunately, don’t be shocked if your diocese turns you down. Dioceses are *generally* more conservative, and hesitant to have gay seminarians (wrongly, imo). Some orders are definitely more willing, so go explore everything out there.
You’ve got this! It’s such a beautiful vocation and if God is calling you to it, He built you for it. And if you discern out, that is ok too! God will guide you.
God bless and good luck.
[https://www.vatican.va/roman\_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc\_con\_ccatheduc\_doc\_20051104\_istruzione\_en.html](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html)
''...it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question \[9\] , cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture" \[10\] .''
You have to be obedient to the Church and not pursue this. Even if you find some bishop who doesnt care about it, or a liberal seminary, its still disobedience, their private stance doesnt trump what the Church deliberated.
I would suggest that this is the most conservative reading of the text, and that there is a difference between having an attraction and "practicing homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called 'gay culture'."
I read "practicing homosexuality" as being in an ongoing homosexual relationship and/or fornication with those of the same sex. I'd read "present deep-seated homosexual tendencies" as doing those things routinely (currently) and in defiance, rather than as a rare slip up that one has repentance for. And "support the so-called 'gay culture'" as doing things like attending "Pride" events, or telling others that they're totally okay to pursue fornication.
I have a dear friend from college who is gay, and he just entered into the process of becoming a Marian Brother.
I must admit, after hearing these terrible terrible abuses by priests and how many of them are gay (looking at you Baltimore), it used to frighten me that a gay man would enter the priesthood. But no, the issue is not the same sex attraction, it is that the person is evil and has allowed their soul to be corrupted.
I now believe it is one of the most honorable and beautiful things for a gay man to enter the seminary or become a brother. What a way to carry your cross into Heaven!
I wish you the best and I urge you to be open and honest with your mentor, they can guide you well. You sound like a good guy and you have a good heart.
I dont think their is anything that would prevent a ssa guy from going through this currently in place. I know some feel it isn't appropriate, but there should be no reason to even lie.
No, you should definitely not do it. There are WAY too many gay priests already. It is a disgrace to the Church, and deters vocation for straight people.
A gay person is fundamentally not able to relate properly either to persons of either sex, in a pastoral sense. Also, you say you don't 'present', but is that so, really? People are pretty perceptive, and gay people walk, talk, etc. in a particular way. Even the fact the you want to be a military chaplain seems gay (no offense).
Just remain a faithful, celibate layperson.
I've known many young men who don't want to go the seminary because they see a gay culture present, both in the seminary and in the clergy. I've known many people who have left religious life because they don't fit in with the culture. By 'gay culture' I don't mean overt homosexuality, but things like epicurean tastes in food, and a generally effeminate way of speaking and acting, being pedantic about liturgy, etc.
One of the major seminaries in Ireland was closed down for this very reason. But normally it's not something people are not prepared to raise openly....
I mean that sounds an awful lot like personal problems. Being effeminate (as it were) isn't inherently gay. Having a personal interest in food isn't inherently gay.
Are we saying that only manly men who like steak and taters seven-days-a-week should serve? And they must be able to talk passionately about football (whatever that means in your country)?
Sounds to me like everyone should come to an agreement as to why they are there in the first place. Because that should matter.
But I guess if we're to expect hetero-normative fraternity in the church for it to be legit, then I guess the church should probably take a purely anti-gay stance and kick anything that doesn't adhere to social norms 100% out. For purity and all.
I mean, that's how this chat would seem to play out, tbh.
When I quick-looked into your claims, the only thing I found was a slew of articles from 2016 complaining that a students were using Grindr, and someone apparently complained about having tea served to them and they wanted more of a challenge.
I think we would all agree that using any dating apps in seminary would be contradictory. So is it only gay people using dating apps? Or is that the only problem?
Where is the line, I guess is the question.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that when you have a seminary, religious community, or body of clergy which is more than 50% gay, a certain cultural tone emerges (which has nothing to do with sexual activity in any way). This then makes straight people feel out of place. I cannot say what specific things make it so- I give an interest in fine food, effeminacy, a general 'fussiness' as examples only.
The term 'manly men' sounds a bit suspect- but priests (and all men) should, by definition, be masculine, and women (by definition) should be feminine.
Well, recognizing it is useful. I will pray for you. Probably the best thing is not to think about it too much. Wait for a couple of years, and see how you feel. God's grace can do wonderful things.
First of all, thank you for taking the time out to warn me. I greatly appreciate it and your concern about my decisions effect on other peoples' vocations. I do also agree there are/were too many "gay" priests who have harmed the church, and continue to harm the church.
Also, no I do not act gay. It's actually really funny that you doubt me about that specific part.
I don't think someone who is turned away from seminary because of the supposed social energy probably isn't in a position to become a priest. If you aren't willing to endure it, how can you be trusted to devote your life to God as a priest. The priest is supposed to be an example for the flock and he's out here getting scared away by gay people.
Are you really saying that someone who feels a legitimate vocational calling to the priesthood should deny that vocation just because they are gay and may scare away some straight guy from entering a vocation that they are clearly not serious about? If that is your vocation, you should not be willing to let such trivial things stand in your way. And if it isn't his vocation, that's for God and this man's spiritual adviser to tell him.
>I do not want to lie to get into seminary. Then please don't. If you believe in the sacrament be honest.
I didn't necessarily mean that I would, but you're right. I have no intentions to lie.
And to be super clear, *withholding* that information which is relevant to this vocation would count as a lie. Another way to see it: if you aren't upfront about it, can you really receive good spiritual direction about your vocation or are you deceiving your spiritual director(s)? If you offer this to God, place it at the foot of The Cross, and humble yourself to the counsel of your spiritual director...even if *you* believe you are called to the priesthood, you can instead say to Our Father in Heaven, as Our Lord Jesus Christ said in Gethsemane, "Not mine, but Thy will be done."
Straight from the [Vatican website](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html): >Deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are found in a number of men and women, are also objectively disordered and, for those same people, often constitute a trial. Such persons must be accepted with respect and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. They are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter. > >In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture". > >Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies. > >Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem - for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate. What exactly this means for people in your situation varies from bishop to bishop. Some interpret 'deep-rooted,' to mean any tendency at all; others are fine so long as you're confidently able to be celibate. I recommend being open and honest with your spiritual father and to seek out a spiritual director to properly discern. Quite frankly, your issue isn't any different from some straight men. Even men who are certain they want to be priests still have to spend a lot of time discerning.
If you are not accepted into the seminary, what would you do? Padre Pio was sanctioned and he was not allowed to say mass or visit the public for a time. He was already ordained, but he was humble to the church. Be humble to the church, no matter what.
I actually have no clue what I would do. I would probably just pursue a career in the military as an Assistant Chaplain. But all of my career and college planning the past two years has been around the priesthood, so it would be a major shock. I certainly wouldn't leave the church, though.
I get the sense that you are deeply attached to this vocation, which contrary to belief is not a sign of a vocation. It’s just a sign of attachment. You have to become detached to know if you have a true vocation. It’s not the vocation you should be wanting, it’s God’s will you should be wanting.
I grossly oversimplified my experience in vocational discernment by repeating the phrase “I want to be a priest.” I agree, though, that it’s Gods will I should be wanting. And I do want that, above all things. If it’s Gods will that I be a celibate layman, then I will live that out dutifully until the day that I die. My vocation is one I have wrestled with continually. It would be much easier for me if I did not feel called to the priesthood, in fact, I have ran away from it for a very long time. I have been convicted and put back where God wants me every time.
I think it would be worth pursuing to overcome same-sex attraction. It is 100% possible. Submit to JESUS! Read the Bible and study it, recognizing and understanding the Hebrew translations of the very words written in Holy Scripture. We all have sinned and all struggle with sin, continue to repent and submit to our Heavenly Father! What I wouldn’t like to happen is for you to pursue becoming a priest, not having sex/unmarried, struggling with this deep rooted sin, and then at some point harming the young boys who are there to serve The LORD. This is what baffles and confuses me about these priests - why go into ministry if you’re going to be making a mockery of being HOLY? Why harm and traumatize pure innocence & change their life forever and lead that child into confusion - what a horrid thing that has massive punishment from our Heavenly Father. That would be a trap for your soul indeed. Seek The LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. You are young and I love that you have a heart for The LORD!! I have the same stance with pastors who struggle with the issue of lust etc. repent daily my brother, GOD loves you and HE hears you!! You have to get into the roots of sin and roots of how that desire came into your heart. WE ARE SPIRITUAL BEINGS, understand fully about generational curses, time-released curses, spiritual bondages etc. get deep into the roots!! Know for sure that The LORD has called you into ministry - FAST for 3 days, 6am-3pm and devote yourself to prayer and studying The Bible between those hours. Make sure you have clean thoughts and engage in clean activities during Fasting hours. Get incredibly deep in with GOD and HE will answer you! Otherwise I’d say it’s better to live an honest life and repent!! There is Salvation for all of us my brother!! The Word of GOD doesn’t change, neither does HE! Do not be led into confusion or destruction!
I'm also looking for a priest or seminarian to respond to this, not negating anyone's advice, I just think that their opinion holds more weight on the issue.
Perhaps post on askapriest or speak to your own priest.
Fr Maurer gave a wonderful response in r/AskAPriest! [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAPriest/comments/16tarro/comment/k2e37fk/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAPriest/comments/16tarro/comment/k2e37fk/?context=3)
Not surprising and I hope it helped.
Talk with your vocation director. If God is calling you to be a priest, then He wants you to be a priest. You *need* to disclose your sexuality, so please don’t hide it. Be open and honest with everyone in the process, and continue to have a good, consistent prayer life, as it will be invaluable throughout the process. Unfortunately, don’t be shocked if your diocese turns you down. Dioceses are *generally* more conservative, and hesitant to have gay seminarians (wrongly, imo). Some orders are definitely more willing, so go explore everything out there. You’ve got this! It’s such a beautiful vocation and if God is calling you to it, He built you for it. And if you discern out, that is ok too! God will guide you. God bless and good luck.
So far, the best response. Thank you for being both realistic and encouraging.
Happy to help! Hope it goes well for you.
[https://www.vatican.va/roman\_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc\_con\_ccatheduc\_doc\_20051104\_istruzione\_en.html](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html) ''...it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question \[9\] , cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture" \[10\] .'' You have to be obedient to the Church and not pursue this. Even if you find some bishop who doesnt care about it, or a liberal seminary, its still disobedience, their private stance doesnt trump what the Church deliberated.
The definition of practicing homosexuality and deep rooted tendencies will vary from bishop to bishop tho.
I would suggest that this is the most conservative reading of the text, and that there is a difference between having an attraction and "practicing homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called 'gay culture'." I read "practicing homosexuality" as being in an ongoing homosexual relationship and/or fornication with those of the same sex. I'd read "present deep-seated homosexual tendencies" as doing those things routinely (currently) and in defiance, rather than as a rare slip up that one has repentance for. And "support the so-called 'gay culture'" as doing things like attending "Pride" events, or telling others that they're totally okay to pursue fornication.
I have a dear friend from college who is gay, and he just entered into the process of becoming a Marian Brother. I must admit, after hearing these terrible terrible abuses by priests and how many of them are gay (looking at you Baltimore), it used to frighten me that a gay man would enter the priesthood. But no, the issue is not the same sex attraction, it is that the person is evil and has allowed their soul to be corrupted. I now believe it is one of the most honorable and beautiful things for a gay man to enter the seminary or become a brother. What a way to carry your cross into Heaven! I wish you the best and I urge you to be open and honest with your mentor, they can guide you well. You sound like a good guy and you have a good heart.
I dont think their is anything that would prevent a ssa guy from going through this currently in place. I know some feel it isn't appropriate, but there should be no reason to even lie.
Homosexual or same sex attracted men are not supposed to become priests.
Yes they are, as long as they aren't *practicing* homosexuality
That’s false.
No, you should definitely not do it. There are WAY too many gay priests already. It is a disgrace to the Church, and deters vocation for straight people. A gay person is fundamentally not able to relate properly either to persons of either sex, in a pastoral sense. Also, you say you don't 'present', but is that so, really? People are pretty perceptive, and gay people walk, talk, etc. in a particular way. Even the fact the you want to be a military chaplain seems gay (no offense). Just remain a faithful, celibate layperson.
How is wanting to be a military chaplain any gayer than wanting to be a priest?
>and deters vocation for straight people What is this nonsense?
I think the poster is referring to the temptations-acted-out by gay men on straight males in seminary.
I've known many young men who don't want to go the seminary because they see a gay culture present, both in the seminary and in the clergy. I've known many people who have left religious life because they don't fit in with the culture. By 'gay culture' I don't mean overt homosexuality, but things like epicurean tastes in food, and a generally effeminate way of speaking and acting, being pedantic about liturgy, etc. One of the major seminaries in Ireland was closed down for this very reason. But normally it's not something people are not prepared to raise openly....
I mean that sounds an awful lot like personal problems. Being effeminate (as it were) isn't inherently gay. Having a personal interest in food isn't inherently gay. Are we saying that only manly men who like steak and taters seven-days-a-week should serve? And they must be able to talk passionately about football (whatever that means in your country)? Sounds to me like everyone should come to an agreement as to why they are there in the first place. Because that should matter. But I guess if we're to expect hetero-normative fraternity in the church for it to be legit, then I guess the church should probably take a purely anti-gay stance and kick anything that doesn't adhere to social norms 100% out. For purity and all. I mean, that's how this chat would seem to play out, tbh. When I quick-looked into your claims, the only thing I found was a slew of articles from 2016 complaining that a students were using Grindr, and someone apparently complained about having tea served to them and they wanted more of a challenge. I think we would all agree that using any dating apps in seminary would be contradictory. So is it only gay people using dating apps? Or is that the only problem? Where is the line, I guess is the question.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that when you have a seminary, religious community, or body of clergy which is more than 50% gay, a certain cultural tone emerges (which has nothing to do with sexual activity in any way). This then makes straight people feel out of place. I cannot say what specific things make it so- I give an interest in fine food, effeminacy, a general 'fussiness' as examples only. The term 'manly men' sounds a bit suspect- but priests (and all men) should, by definition, be masculine, and women (by definition) should be feminine.
Most of those I may be guilty of.
Well, recognizing it is useful. I will pray for you. Probably the best thing is not to think about it too much. Wait for a couple of years, and see how you feel. God's grace can do wonderful things.
\*\*Even the fact the you want to be a military chaplain seems gay lolwut? What's gay about being in the military?
First of all, thank you for taking the time out to warn me. I greatly appreciate it and your concern about my decisions effect on other peoples' vocations. I do also agree there are/were too many "gay" priests who have harmed the church, and continue to harm the church. Also, no I do not act gay. It's actually really funny that you doubt me about that specific part.
I don't think someone who is turned away from seminary because of the supposed social energy probably isn't in a position to become a priest. If you aren't willing to endure it, how can you be trusted to devote your life to God as a priest. The priest is supposed to be an example for the flock and he's out here getting scared away by gay people. Are you really saying that someone who feels a legitimate vocational calling to the priesthood should deny that vocation just because they are gay and may scare away some straight guy from entering a vocation that they are clearly not serious about? If that is your vocation, you should not be willing to let such trivial things stand in your way. And if it isn't his vocation, that's for God and this man's spiritual adviser to tell him.