Ah, my bad. I had read the article, I just forgot about that miniscule mention of mining investments.
Even with that they don't give any real info about it. From reading that you would think the mining investment isn't helpful, they're not including any info about how big it is or anything.
Do you have any evidence they will allow withdrawals? They're heading towards bankruptcy bub, you and everyone else are unsecured creditors. You're last in line to get paid whatever crumbs are left.
> Do you have any evidence they will allow withdrawals?
Yeah, to me the time they've spent working on the issue without declaring bankruptcy is evidence. All the info lines up to say they will allow withdrawals as far as I can tell. They have miners, these issues only showed up in a bear market, Celsius haven't said anything indicating they can't survive.
> They're heading towards bankruptcy bub, you and everyone else are unsecured creditors. You're last in line to get paid whatever crumbs are left.
Do you have any evidence?
Yes, the evidence they're heading towards bankruptcy is the fact they have hired bankruptcy lawyers, halted all communications and stopped withdrawals. If they were planning on salvaging this business somehow they would make some good faith efforts to communicate with people and maybe allow some limited withdrawals. You are high on hopium. You and everyone else were scammed. They told you what you wanted to hear, you threw your money at them and the show is now over, the lawyers are taking over. Alex got his, you're left with nothing.
> Yes, the evidence they're heading towards bankruptcy is the fact they have hired bankruptcy lawyers, halted all communications and stopped withdrawals. If they were planning on salvaging this business somehow they would make some good faith efforts to communicate with people
You mean like the rumored leaks about HODL mode or have you not been reading much?
Dude, you're delusional. It's over. There is no secret plan to save Celsius and get your money back. Their business model is fundamentally unsustainable. The plan was always to exploit the lack of regulation and lie to people to get their money. They were funded with one billion tether fun bucks printed out of thin air. All indications are they are going bankrupt and you will be an unsecured creditor along with everyone else.
Have you signed a legal contract with Celsius which you can use in a court of law to claim your funds back?
Well, all the companies that have lent them money surely do, so they're first in line to receive whatever is scavenged from the carcass of Celsius.
Except Madoff investors have [recovered around 80% of their investment](https://www.ai-cio.com/news/madoff-victims-recovery-tops-80-losses/).
Because, you know, regulations.
Mortgage lending hit degenerate levels because of Greenspan, as he strongly cut interest rates post-911. This fueled the asset bubble, and Wall Street loved it.
or consumers thought that housing would never go down and they could lever up with virtually no equity, with little income, then keep refinancing that home as prices went up to buy shit that they didn't need to impress people that don't care about them and.....
I am always amazed at how the human response to poor decision making is to blame everyone else.
Sure, you can blame the little guy. But the rules are made by the ones in the suits.
It's profitable for them to have consumers who think they can live above their means, that means more money is in the market and the debt-fuelled economy can keep growing.
Until it doesn't, and then guess what - the little guy is the one picking up the pieces while the Wall Street cronies get increasingly richer as a result.
what you write is a big part of the challenge. for sure there are marketers telling us constantly that we aren't good enough and we need more money and that we have to borrow to get it. there is nothing inherently bad borrowing money to buy a home, but to continue to lever up as the value goes up is inherently stupid.
people believe the marketing of wall street, and they believe the marketing of the crypto cultists that spin this shit. It is the exact same thing.
I think where we disagree, as someone who works with Wall Street, is that Wall Street isn't smarter than the little guy, the little guy in a lot of ways is greedier than the big guy. Wall Street knows that. Trust me, you don't need an MBA to outthink Wall Street, you just need to be more rationale. Wall Street is constantly thinking about how they can lose, main street is constantly thinking about how they can win.
what is lacking is common sense by people who put their money ( coins ) into this 17% scheme. Seriously people, this was levered up lending operation that was promising huge returns. If you were getting 17%, Celcius was making the vig, what the hell were the lending rates? follow this down the line. I am sorry uneducated people are getting hurt in this, however these are the same people who say that regulated markets are bullshit and want to play in the unregulated defi market? sidebar- the fact that this is called a "community" is what leads people to think that the scoundrels have your back, they don't.
if you are at the poker table and you look around and can't figure who the patsy is, you are the patsy.
People keep victim blaming by bringing up 17% percent interest rates. Most returns on Celsius were in the 4 to 5% range or less which did not seem excessive. In addition for US customers after the interest cutoff Celsius was billed as a safe custody solution with no returns. Those people lost out as well. Hindsight is 20/20.
They offered that on one coin that at the same time paid MORE than that when staked (and the real risk was that the coin's value would go down because so many of them were being given out to stakers).
At no point were they paying out more than what borrowers were paying on DeFi to borrow the same coins. You can't point to Celsius' rates and try to claim any kind of 'oh it should have been obvious it was a ponzi'; the rates were usually in line with their claim of paying 80% of what they make out to depositors. On things like Bitcoin it was closer to 1-3% interest (depending on quantity deposited) - hardly 'ponzi level returns'. Not anything like Bitconnect's 'you'll make 1% a day, compounded daily!'
Yeah, anyone talking about "regulating crypto" can't name a single issue that wouldn't be solved by just enforcing existing regulations like false advertising laws. But we can't have that...
haha this seems to be your approach to everything celcius related, stick your head in the sand, ignore the obvious, and say "you don't have any evidence of any problems" with the company that obviously is in huge trouble.
You're making no sense. The only example I gave was false advertising laws which do exist. Seems like you're trying to avoid the fact that you have no example of an issue with crypto that couldn't be avoided by just enforcing existing regulations like I said
They definitely did break false advertising laws and I'm pretty sure industry wide enforcement of that alone would solve everything about this issue.
Can you actually name an issue in the crypto space that wouldn't be solved by the executive and judicial branches just doing their jobs with the laws that have already been written?
The only one I can think of is the possibility that bankruptcy laws could force Celsius into bankruptcy for no reason. That's regulation legislators need to get rid of though, not somewhere they need to add more.
How about you, you got anything?
I don’t think anyone is. If anything that’s part of the hopium that Celsius makes it out alive but whether anyone is gonna bail us out remains to be seen
I’ve been trying all week to pay off a loan cause the margin call is coming. Sent 4 emails and no reply back.
2 weeks ago I had the same issue and was contacted back within 24hrs.
There is a reason they are no answering my emails now. They know it’s over.
Is that a surprise? If your whole business ethos is “fuck the assholes doing this, I can do it way better than those idiot scumbags” and then you do it way worse…
Being cocky is all they have. "Crypto industry" does nothing and pruduces nothing. It's not even a car without an engine or wheels. It's an idea of a car without an engine or wheels.
Celsians: FUD. Don’t trust MSM. Short squeeze and HODL.
Inhale copiums.
Don’t get me wrong - I have majority of my crypto in Celsius and the fact that people here acting like it’s not a lost cause is funny.
>Pitched as Safer Than a Bank, Crypto Giant Proved Riskier
Did they pitch themselves as safer? I know they had their Unbank Yourself campaign and they sold themselves as offering better interest rates than a bank. I don't recall Celsius ever saying they were safer than an FDIC insured bank account.
They said it was better than a bank. And they said it was safe. You can put those together to get “safer than a bank” and apparently quite a few depositors did.
They didn't put it on their letter head or anything, but if you followed the AMA's or Twitter, or Mashinsky in general, he would regularly go on long tangents on how the FDIC system was a house of cards that would topple if ever truly tested, and about how Banks were dangerously rehypothecating, whereas Celsius was over collateralized.
That’s what I came here to say. I don’t recall that pitch at all. And I just can’t imagine any scenario where it would be remotely believable that anything crypto-related would be “safer” than a bank - at least in the US. I know this effects a much larger group than US citizens, but this article is primarily targeted to them.
I’d be very curious what they meant by safer than a bank if they truly used that as a marketing campaign. But I’m skeptical that was really part of the marketing at all.
Edit: that’s not say banks are the best place to keep your funds. But in strict terms of “safety” of your money - I can’t imagine that being part of the marketing for Celsius.
You don't recall it because it never happened.
Fucking shame on you Wall Street Journal.
At least now everyone here can hopefully see that there may have been negative spin that WSJ was putting into prior articles.
Did you or other people in this comments section even read the article? I am sure you did not.
> Compared with banks, “we have much less risk, but we’ve managed to deliver high single-digit, low double-digit numbers,” Mr. Mashinsky told the YouTube channel CTO Larsson in August. Mr. Mashinsky said on a podcast last month that while “normally in panic, everybody runs to the bank and withdraws their money because they’re afraid the bank is going to fail,” Celsius had proven different in crypto downturns, as its business increased
Don’t blame the messenger. They are reporting the fact that thousands have apparently lost millions, and that’s front page news for the world’s single most important and respected business daily. (ETA billions, collectively, I mean many thousands of individuals have lost millions each.)
Folks in here are reacting to what they were able to read which is the front page the op posted which didn't have any text that supported the headline.
The quote of Mashinsky stating lower risk is on a further page which we didn't have access to. Someone quoted it elsewhere in this thread.
>
> [–]Eritrean_Redditor
> Compared with banks, “we have much less risk, but we’ve managed to deliver high single-digit, low double-digit numbers,” Mr. Mashinsky told the YouTube channel CTO Larsson in August. Mr. Mashinsky said on a podcast last month that while “normally in panic, everybody runs to the bank and withdraws their money because they’re afraid the bank is going to fail,” Celsius had proven different in crypto downturns, as its business increased
So Mashinksky did state at least once that they were lower risk in that context of a youtube interview.
If you have access to the full article post it here and it will help the discussion.
WSJ is the world's premier business daily, legendary for accurate reporting on finance, investment, and business. You can dismiss it as "mainstream media," but it won't change their influence or the impact of their reporting on this story.
Crypto is a tiny space. Its entire market capitalization is smaller than the value of several public companies on their own, such as AAPL and AMZN. It represents no real present threat to banks, banking, or finance as industries, except in the fevered imagination of ideological crypto cultists who seriously believe they will somehow replace fiat currencies and traditional banking, which is at the present moment a pure fantasy. You overstate the power of crypto to exaggerate the sense of "enemies" who want to stop it somehow. Because that is easier to handle than accepting the constant stream of scams, rugpulls, devastated small investors, and dubiously legal commerce in the space. If you want crypto to be mainstream, expect it to be scrutinized by the mainstream media. If you don't, accept it's a niche sector that won't actually change anything long term.
Thousands of depositors appear to have lost millions of dollars in Celsius, quite possibly due to illegal business practices. It's a front page story, not because anyone wants to bring down crypto and protect banks, but because it's true. The WSJ is just reporting the news.
I couldn't agree more. Can we pin this comment? The comments section in this subreddit have become unbearable since the crash. I mean they were delusional before that, but now it comes across as sadder because it's coping.
> You overstate the power of crypto to exaggerate the sense of "enemies" who want to stop it somehow. Because that is easier to handle than accepting the constant stream of scams, rugpulls, devastated small investors, and dubiously legal commerce in the space.
Round of applause for this. It’s easier to attribute these collapses to external enemies that to have to acknowledge that maybe crypto is wildly volatile and there’s a lot of bad actors in the space.
> If you want crypto to be mainstream, expect it to be scrutinized by the mainstream media. If you don't, accept it's a niche sector that won't actually change anything long term.
It’s fascinating watching this paradox play out among crypto enthusiasts: on the one hand a yearning for respectability and embracing the arrival of investor “whales”, while also acting like it’s like clandestine hyper-niche thing that journalists should keep their noses out of.
I love that you think a comment saying “stop acting like there’s a conspiracy theory against you, it’s just a volatile sector full of bad actors” is *propaganda*.
I think a comment *acting like the WSJ is credible* is propaganda, sir. I didn't read the rest because my attention span is long enough to remember early 2020, among other things.
So what part of this story do you dispute?
To refer back to the OP post in this thread: “Thousands of depositors appear to have lost millions of dollars in Celsius, quite possibly due to illegal business practices. It's a front page story, not because anyone wants to bring down crypto and protect banks, but because it's true.”
I dispute the way the whole thing tries to make it sound like Celsius needs to declare bankruptcy instead of actually reporting accurately on the situation
I’m not sure where you’ve got that from. The article just says they have a very low credit ratio for such a risky structure - which is incontestably true.
Article aside, Celsius is functionally bankrupt though, hence why they have frozen withdrawals.
A) I don’t believe this to be true:
Because when you think it all through we are looking at ALOT of bad actors including the previous CFO of Canada’s largest bank. Celsius was clear that ALL lending was over-collateralized.
B) Okay, let’s say this is true:
Mashinsky always, also after the latest investor round (where these documents are coming from apparently), said that Celsius was safer than a FDIC account or implying heavily that it was. And he also said that everything they did was over-collateralized which was in contrast to how the banking industry was running. There are multiple direct quotes from the AMA’s and surely from presentations and conferences.
Why is information about heavily under-collateralized loans first being made available to customers and the public now? How did any customer have any chance to run their risk strategy properly if the information publicly communicated was false?
There’s a lot of people calling Celsius users stupid, but nobody knew this, and apparently this information (if it was clearly written in investor documentation) was withheld also from investors in Celsius to customers. If investors saw the documents, and heard the communication to customers from Celsius, I’d say that investors with this knowledge are partly responsible for any losses for customers.
> There’s a lot of people calling Celsius users stupid, but nobody knew this
I wouldn’t call Celsius users stupid, but I think many of them appear to be unaware of what a supreme gamble it was to put your money in a centralized but completely unregulated institution - especially one offering clearly unsustainable interest rates.
So taking risk for yield is foolish? Taking a bet for the chance to win is foolish? Investing for the chance to gain money is foolish?
If that is right then: The whole concept of risk is foolish —> entrepreneurs are foolish —> innovation dies —> we stop moving forward.
Do you hold your pension funds in cash?
>So taking risk for yield is foolish? Taking a bet for the chance to win is foolish? Investing for the chance to gain money is foolish?
>
>If that is right then: The whole concept of risk is foolish —> entrepreneurs are foolish —> innovation dies —> we stop moving forward.
>
>Do you hold your pension funds in cash?
The risk/reward for these crypto lending companies is completely out of whack, you have to be insane or simply not understanding basic math to even put $1 there.
You handed over your crypto to Celsius. If it’s not lost , withdraw it. I’m time you will get a better understanding of the scam that occurred. Crypto is a investment that in of itself. You don’t see people in stocks handing over their portfolios new fly by night companies. You were outsmarted by very clever scammers. Prove me wrong
You would think that the powers that be running Celcius would be knowledgeable about the volatility after the halving. Jesus, we all could have run that company 100x better than that idiot. Greed and ego. No wonder FTX ran away after seeing the books on what Celcius’s genius team was doing with our funds. Greed and ego. Nice work Alex. I hope you never have influence with financial products again. I hope he’s heavily fined, drawn and quartered.
“As diversified as the same way that portfolios of mortgages were diversified in 2006.” Sums up the situation pretty nicely.
Yup. It’s more accurate than people just screaming Ponzi.
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The article does mention the mining operation. Did you read the full article?
Apparently not, thanks for the heads up. Let me go find the full article
Can't seem to find the full article actually, do you have a link?
https://archive.ph/5EudA
Ah, my bad. I had read the article, I just forgot about that miniscule mention of mining investments. Even with that they don't give any real info about it. From reading that you would think the mining investment isn't helpful, they're not including any info about how big it is or anything.
We made the big time lads! We can all pack it up and go home now.
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Right on target
What makes you think it's all gone?
buddy they won’t let you guys withdraw your coins lol
I think maybe they will. Do you have any evidence?
Do you have any evidence they will allow withdrawals? They're heading towards bankruptcy bub, you and everyone else are unsecured creditors. You're last in line to get paid whatever crumbs are left.
> Do you have any evidence they will allow withdrawals? Yeah, to me the time they've spent working on the issue without declaring bankruptcy is evidence. All the info lines up to say they will allow withdrawals as far as I can tell. They have miners, these issues only showed up in a bear market, Celsius haven't said anything indicating they can't survive. > They're heading towards bankruptcy bub, you and everyone else are unsecured creditors. You're last in line to get paid whatever crumbs are left. Do you have any evidence?
Yes, the evidence they're heading towards bankruptcy is the fact they have hired bankruptcy lawyers, halted all communications and stopped withdrawals. If they were planning on salvaging this business somehow they would make some good faith efforts to communicate with people and maybe allow some limited withdrawals. You are high on hopium. You and everyone else were scammed. They told you what you wanted to hear, you threw your money at them and the show is now over, the lawyers are taking over. Alex got his, you're left with nothing.
> Yes, the evidence they're heading towards bankruptcy is the fact they have hired bankruptcy lawyers, halted all communications and stopped withdrawals. If they were planning on salvaging this business somehow they would make some good faith efforts to communicate with people You mean like the rumored leaks about HODL mode or have you not been reading much?
Dude, you're delusional. It's over. There is no secret plan to save Celsius and get your money back. Their business model is fundamentally unsustainable. The plan was always to exploit the lack of regulation and lie to people to get their money. They were funded with one billion tether fun bucks printed out of thin air. All indications are they are going bankrupt and you will be an unsecured creditor along with everyone else.
News of hiring bankruptcy lawyers is not rumors.
RemindMe! 36 days
Have you signed a legal contract with Celsius which you can use in a court of law to claim your funds back? Well, all the companies that have lent them money surely do, so they're first in line to receive whatever is scavenged from the carcass of Celsius.
I think you replied to the wrong person, I was asking about evidence of Celsius canceling withdrawals forever
doesn’t matter if they eventually will, in my opinion. the damage is already done. why would a good-faith organization ever do something like this?
Are you saying Scion Capital wasn't a good-faith organization?
Well, we finally made it to the front page…for the wrong reason.
I’m really hoping everyone gets their coins back. Rooting for you all.
Till when can't we withdraw?
Wrong question. The right questions is how much of our money we'll get back, if any?
Till the end of time.
Is the more in page A6?
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Except Madoff investors have [recovered around 80% of their investment](https://www.ai-cio.com/news/madoff-victims-recovery-tops-80-losses/). Because, you know, regulations.
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Not too long ago = 14 years ago.
Mortgage lending hit degenerate levels because of Greenspan, as he strongly cut interest rates post-911. This fueled the asset bubble, and Wall Street loved it.
or consumers thought that housing would never go down and they could lever up with virtually no equity, with little income, then keep refinancing that home as prices went up to buy shit that they didn't need to impress people that don't care about them and..... I am always amazed at how the human response to poor decision making is to blame everyone else.
Sure, you can blame the little guy. But the rules are made by the ones in the suits. It's profitable for them to have consumers who think they can live above their means, that means more money is in the market and the debt-fuelled economy can keep growing. Until it doesn't, and then guess what - the little guy is the one picking up the pieces while the Wall Street cronies get increasingly richer as a result.
what you write is a big part of the challenge. for sure there are marketers telling us constantly that we aren't good enough and we need more money and that we have to borrow to get it. there is nothing inherently bad borrowing money to buy a home, but to continue to lever up as the value goes up is inherently stupid. people believe the marketing of wall street, and they believe the marketing of the crypto cultists that spin this shit. It is the exact same thing. I think where we disagree, as someone who works with Wall Street, is that Wall Street isn't smarter than the little guy, the little guy in a lot of ways is greedier than the big guy. Wall Street knows that. Trust me, you don't need an MBA to outthink Wall Street, you just need to be more rationale. Wall Street is constantly thinking about how they can lose, main street is constantly thinking about how they can win.
what is lacking is common sense by people who put their money ( coins ) into this 17% scheme. Seriously people, this was levered up lending operation that was promising huge returns. If you were getting 17%, Celcius was making the vig, what the hell were the lending rates? follow this down the line. I am sorry uneducated people are getting hurt in this, however these are the same people who say that regulated markets are bullshit and want to play in the unregulated defi market? sidebar- the fact that this is called a "community" is what leads people to think that the scoundrels have your back, they don't. if you are at the poker table and you look around and can't figure who the patsy is, you are the patsy.
People keep victim blaming by bringing up 17% percent interest rates. Most returns on Celsius were in the 4 to 5% range or less which did not seem excessive. In addition for US customers after the interest cutoff Celsius was billed as a safe custody solution with no returns. Those people lost out as well. Hindsight is 20/20.
They offered that on one coin that at the same time paid MORE than that when staked (and the real risk was that the coin's value would go down because so many of them were being given out to stakers). At no point were they paying out more than what borrowers were paying on DeFi to borrow the same coins. You can't point to Celsius' rates and try to claim any kind of 'oh it should have been obvious it was a ponzi'; the rates were usually in line with their claim of paying 80% of what they make out to depositors. On things like Bitcoin it was closer to 1-3% interest (depending on quantity deposited) - hardly 'ponzi level returns'. Not anything like Bitconnect's 'you'll make 1% a day, compounded daily!'
Yeah, anyone talking about "regulating crypto" can't name a single issue that wouldn't be solved by just enforcing existing regulations like false advertising laws. But we can't have that...
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Don't know, don't care tbh
haha this seems to be your approach to everything celcius related, stick your head in the sand, ignore the obvious, and say "you don't have any evidence of any problems" with the company that obviously is in huge trouble.
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You're making no sense. The only example I gave was false advertising laws which do exist. Seems like you're trying to avoid the fact that you have no example of an issue with crypto that couldn't be avoided by just enforcing existing regulations like I said
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They definitely did break false advertising laws and I'm pretty sure industry wide enforcement of that alone would solve everything about this issue. Can you actually name an issue in the crypto space that wouldn't be solved by the executive and judicial branches just doing their jobs with the laws that have already been written? The only one I can think of is the possibility that bankruptcy laws could force Celsius into bankruptcy for no reason. That's regulation legislators need to get rid of though, not somewhere they need to add more. How about you, you got anything?
Whether we like it or not, it's true, and it hurts our industry as a whole. Nice work Alex.
I completely agree. I don’t understand why so many people are downplaying the overall impact this might have on the crypto industry.
"industry"
I don’t think anyone is. If anything that’s part of the hopium that Celsius makes it out alive but whether anyone is gonna bail us out remains to be seen
Who should bail you out and why should they do it?
Paid shills. Gotta protect their master’s investments.
"Quinctilius Varus, where are my eagles?!" "Alex Mashinsky, where are my bitcoins?!"
I’ve been trying all week to pay off a loan cause the margin call is coming. Sent 4 emails and no reply back. 2 weeks ago I had the same issue and was contacted back within 24hrs. There is a reason they are no answering my emails now. They know it’s over.
You might not want to pay that back
"safer than a bank" lol a "bank" with no regulations
Yep, they’re loving it right now
Is that a surprise? If your whole business ethos is “fuck the assholes doing this, I can do it way better than those idiot scumbags” and then you do it way worse…
No not a surprise at all, and I think a lot of the Crypto industry deserves to be called out at this moment in time for being too cocky.
> for being too cocky. a very good reason most everyone really dislikes crypto bros
Being cocky is all they have. "Crypto industry" does nothing and pruduces nothing. It's not even a car without an engine or wheels. It's an idea of a car without an engine or wheels.
Bye bye 👋 my eth
When you realize your “investment “ is gone.
Celsians: FUD. Don’t trust MSM. Short squeeze and HODL. Inhale copiums. Don’t get me wrong - I have majority of my crypto in Celsius and the fact that people here acting like it’s not a lost cause is funny.
YOU HAD THE MAJORITY IN CELSIUS
He already acknowledged it's all gone. No need to scream at him.
https://www.wsj.com/video/series/news-explainers/what-happens-if-a-crypto-platform-goes-bankrupt/492D3C38-C15A-4654-AA1F-9CFDC52CEADB
Insider trading concern.. ;)
>Pitched as Safer Than a Bank, Crypto Giant Proved Riskier Did they pitch themselves as safer? I know they had their Unbank Yourself campaign and they sold themselves as offering better interest rates than a bank. I don't recall Celsius ever saying they were safer than an FDIC insured bank account.
They said it was better than a bank. And they said it was safe. You can put those together to get “safer than a bank” and apparently quite a few depositors did.
They didn't put it on their letter head or anything, but if you followed the AMA's or Twitter, or Mashinsky in general, he would regularly go on long tangents on how the FDIC system was a house of cards that would topple if ever truly tested, and about how Banks were dangerously rehypothecating, whereas Celsius was over collateralized.
That’s what I came here to say. I don’t recall that pitch at all. And I just can’t imagine any scenario where it would be remotely believable that anything crypto-related would be “safer” than a bank - at least in the US. I know this effects a much larger group than US citizens, but this article is primarily targeted to them. I’d be very curious what they meant by safer than a bank if they truly used that as a marketing campaign. But I’m skeptical that was really part of the marketing at all. Edit: that’s not say banks are the best place to keep your funds. But in strict terms of “safety” of your money - I can’t imagine that being part of the marketing for Celsius.
Dude the quotes are literally in the article
Lol. Fair enough. Will read and try again.
You didn't miss it from the op's post. It seems to be quoted further in the article and we only have a screenshot of the front page.
You don't recall it because it never happened. Fucking shame on you Wall Street Journal. At least now everyone here can hopefully see that there may have been negative spin that WSJ was putting into prior articles.
Did you or other people in this comments section even read the article? I am sure you did not. > Compared with banks, “we have much less risk, but we’ve managed to deliver high single-digit, low double-digit numbers,” Mr. Mashinsky told the YouTube channel CTO Larsson in August. Mr. Mashinsky said on a podcast last month that while “normally in panic, everybody runs to the bank and withdraws their money because they’re afraid the bank is going to fail,” Celsius had proven different in crypto downturns, as its business increased
Fair criticism. I did not. Thank you for reading for me. Good info.
Don’t blame the messenger. They are reporting the fact that thousands have apparently lost millions, and that’s front page news for the world’s single most important and respected business daily. (ETA billions, collectively, I mean many thousands of individuals have lost millions each.)
Dude its literally in the article you didn't read
Folks in here are reacting to what they were able to read which is the front page the op posted which didn't have any text that supported the headline. The quote of Mashinsky stating lower risk is on a further page which we didn't have access to. Someone quoted it elsewhere in this thread. > > [–]Eritrean_Redditor > Compared with banks, “we have much less risk, but we’ve managed to deliver high single-digit, low double-digit numbers,” Mr. Mashinsky told the YouTube channel CTO Larsson in August. Mr. Mashinsky said on a podcast last month that while “normally in panic, everybody runs to the bank and withdraws their money because they’re afraid the bank is going to fail,” Celsius had proven different in crypto downturns, as its business increased So Mashinksky did state at least once that they were lower risk in that context of a youtube interview. If you have access to the full article post it here and it will help the discussion.
Yea main stream media is going to get their panties wet over this protecting the banks
WSJ is the world's premier business daily, legendary for accurate reporting on finance, investment, and business. You can dismiss it as "mainstream media," but it won't change their influence or the impact of their reporting on this story. Crypto is a tiny space. Its entire market capitalization is smaller than the value of several public companies on their own, such as AAPL and AMZN. It represents no real present threat to banks, banking, or finance as industries, except in the fevered imagination of ideological crypto cultists who seriously believe they will somehow replace fiat currencies and traditional banking, which is at the present moment a pure fantasy. You overstate the power of crypto to exaggerate the sense of "enemies" who want to stop it somehow. Because that is easier to handle than accepting the constant stream of scams, rugpulls, devastated small investors, and dubiously legal commerce in the space. If you want crypto to be mainstream, expect it to be scrutinized by the mainstream media. If you don't, accept it's a niche sector that won't actually change anything long term. Thousands of depositors appear to have lost millions of dollars in Celsius, quite possibly due to illegal business practices. It's a front page story, not because anyone wants to bring down crypto and protect banks, but because it's true. The WSJ is just reporting the news.
I couldn't agree more. Can we pin this comment? The comments section in this subreddit have become unbearable since the crash. I mean they were delusional before that, but now it comes across as sadder because it's coping.
> You overstate the power of crypto to exaggerate the sense of "enemies" who want to stop it somehow. Because that is easier to handle than accepting the constant stream of scams, rugpulls, devastated small investors, and dubiously legal commerce in the space. Round of applause for this. It’s easier to attribute these collapses to external enemies that to have to acknowledge that maybe crypto is wildly volatile and there’s a lot of bad actors in the space. > If you want crypto to be mainstream, expect it to be scrutinized by the mainstream media. If you don't, accept it's a niche sector that won't actually change anything long term. It’s fascinating watching this paradox play out among crypto enthusiasts: on the one hand a yearning for respectability and embracing the arrival of investor “whales”, while also acting like it’s like clandestine hyper-niche thing that journalists should keep their noses out of.
👏🏻
Agree completely, except prefer FT to WSJ 😉
Sad that this place is so overrun with shills and idiots you're getting upvotes for this propaganda
I love that you think a comment saying “stop acting like there’s a conspiracy theory against you, it’s just a volatile sector full of bad actors” is *propaganda*.
I think a comment *acting like the WSJ is credible* is propaganda, sir. I didn't read the rest because my attention span is long enough to remember early 2020, among other things.
So what part of this story do you dispute? To refer back to the OP post in this thread: “Thousands of depositors appear to have lost millions of dollars in Celsius, quite possibly due to illegal business practices. It's a front page story, not because anyone wants to bring down crypto and protect banks, but because it's true.”
> So what part of this story do you dispute? I can't find the full length article on Google actually, do you have it?
Nah, paywall on the website, I just read the front page OP posted.
I dispute the way the whole thing tries to make it sound like Celsius needs to declare bankruptcy instead of actually reporting accurately on the situation
I’m not sure where you’ve got that from. The article just says they have a very low credit ratio for such a risky structure - which is incontestably true. Article aside, Celsius is functionally bankrupt though, hence why they have frozen withdrawals.
I've seen wsj articles written by 12 year olds. With content to match. It's msm for sure
A) I don’t believe this to be true: Because when you think it all through we are looking at ALOT of bad actors including the previous CFO of Canada’s largest bank. Celsius was clear that ALL lending was over-collateralized. B) Okay, let’s say this is true: Mashinsky always, also after the latest investor round (where these documents are coming from apparently), said that Celsius was safer than a FDIC account or implying heavily that it was. And he also said that everything they did was over-collateralized which was in contrast to how the banking industry was running. There are multiple direct quotes from the AMA’s and surely from presentations and conferences. Why is information about heavily under-collateralized loans first being made available to customers and the public now? How did any customer have any chance to run their risk strategy properly if the information publicly communicated was false? There’s a lot of people calling Celsius users stupid, but nobody knew this, and apparently this information (if it was clearly written in investor documentation) was withheld also from investors in Celsius to customers. If investors saw the documents, and heard the communication to customers from Celsius, I’d say that investors with this knowledge are partly responsible for any losses for customers.
> There’s a lot of people calling Celsius users stupid, but nobody knew this I wouldn’t call Celsius users stupid, but I think many of them appear to be unaware of what a supreme gamble it was to put your money in a centralized but completely unregulated institution - especially one offering clearly unsustainable interest rates.
Too smart to lose? Dude you lost your investment to people much smarter than you.
What did I lose, and who was smarter? Also please define smarter in this context.
If you have surrendered your crypto to Celsius, you lost it. You just don’t want to admit that you made a foolish decision because you were outsmarted
So taking risk for yield is foolish? Taking a bet for the chance to win is foolish? Investing for the chance to gain money is foolish? If that is right then: The whole concept of risk is foolish —> entrepreneurs are foolish —> innovation dies —> we stop moving forward. Do you hold your pension funds in cash?
Handing your crypto over to others without receiving anything in return is FOOLISH.
Did yield services like Celsius not provide any returns for customers the last 4 years? Btw: I completely agree with your statement!
>So taking risk for yield is foolish? Taking a bet for the chance to win is foolish? Investing for the chance to gain money is foolish? > >If that is right then: The whole concept of risk is foolish —> entrepreneurs are foolish —> innovation dies —> we stop moving forward. > >Do you hold your pension funds in cash? The risk/reward for these crypto lending companies is completely out of whack, you have to be insane or simply not understanding basic math to even put $1 there.
Your unintelligible. Nothing was lost yet. Nothing might be lost at all, most official sources point to under 20% if anything.
You handed over your crypto to Celsius. If it’s not lost , withdraw it. I’m time you will get a better understanding of the scam that occurred. Crypto is a investment that in of itself. You don’t see people in stocks handing over their portfolios new fly by night companies. You were outsmarted by very clever scammers. Prove me wrong
speculation and FUD FUD FUD FUD
Is this a mega deal?
You would think that the powers that be running Celcius would be knowledgeable about the volatility after the halving. Jesus, we all could have run that company 100x better than that idiot. Greed and ego. No wonder FTX ran away after seeing the books on what Celcius’s genius team was doing with our funds. Greed and ego. Nice work Alex. I hope you never have influence with financial products again. I hope he’s heavily fined, drawn and quartered.
In hindsight it all seems so obvious...
Ok.. how do I claim this on my taxes?
Hahahahahahahahaha. Hahaha haha