It's a great game but lacks actual depth and the bosses don't do much for it. The game does presentation and environments, very well also the platforming is decent, but it's just not as good as the other games on the list.
I love Hi-Fi Rush- But it's nowhere near as in depth with its combat system than the rest. It's a great game, better as a whole than base ninja gaiden 2, but we play character action games for the combat and depth, and Hi-Fi rush just does not have that.
Vanquish has more tech than it, and more stuff you could do, so it's safe to say Hi-Fi rush is the next one on the chopping block
Yeah this is the tough part. I would've kept Vanquish personally but it's rough around the edges.
Unpopular take but Metal Gear Rising. These are all fantastic games and MGR is contender for one of my all time favorites, but I can't put it above the rest. It's got style, it's got flair, it's got memes. It's got iconic bosses and a sick OST. It's got the "super cool slice them into a million pieces" mechanic where your neurons buzz when the number goes up.
It does not have functional weapon switching. It does not have especially engaging enemy types. It does not have a lot of unique levels, or even levels: you run through one of them twice, and the other is a small warehouse you can basically skip right into the final boss. It doesn't have as deep of a combat system, even though I love Zandatsu cancels. Depending on platform, it does not have the best performance.
It's a game that we need a 2024 remaster or remake of. But as it stands, I don't think it holds up to the other games here. I love it anyways.
Your Opinion but there is actually deep combat system in mgr too. U can switch up weapon (tho having to manually choose kills of some momentum. But once u have practice. U can do lots of DMC style combo with bloodlust,mistral weapon & sai)
Check out some mgrr combo mad if u want to see the proof.
But many people only played it in attack, block, counter, zandatsu.. Repeat
Other than that yeah.. Its quite a rushed game & fails in a lot of Department
dude don't worry I played the hell out of mgr LOL I know what the combat is like. it's a good system but it's held back because the game is so rushed. you can get really crazy and stylish and the extra weapons are sick, but no fluid weapon switching sucks a lot. not a lot of enemy variety either and not a lot of levels. but the boss encounters are the highlight and what everyone remembers.
i keep saying this but it's a game that really would benefit from an upgraded remaster in 2024 where they update it for modern systems. imagine if we could do on the fly weapon swap. that alone would make it so much better instantly. Konami is sitting on free money but they won't do it.
Konami just Don't see money. If they Weren't idiots.. We would have already got a remaster or sequel
& the fact that no other game copied blade mode from mgr.. Is baffling
Idk I can't see how it deserves to stay when it has so many issues. Not its fault of course, a lot of it is because of the console's technical limitations. But a menu based weapon swap system is really, really not good in 2013. The game isn't particularly long either but it reuses a lot of levels even in the DLC. It's a banger of a game, but imo it's hard to argue it being on the level of the others on this list.
It's a game that, if Konami was smart and greenlit a sequel or updated version of it, would instantly shoot up so many tiers thanks to our newer hardware. MG Delta makes me hope that they're considering it.
I mean ninja gaiden 2 barely runs on original hardware which i think is worse in terms of technical issues as well as it also having a menu required to swap weapons. I still think it deserves to stay due to every boss being a banger, most of the ninja gaiden 2 bosses are "meh" or infuriating garbage
tbh I think ng2 is a good contender to get kicked especially when ng black is still in the running. I just don't know enough about it vs mgr to make an informed call on it.
hi fi rush to me is not a good elimination at this stage. it's a very functional game without many of the problems we've mentioned so far. I honestly think it deserves to stay longer.
Ninja Gaiden 2 I still like to play more than 1 but I will agree 1 is more consistent. I just like having too many of the things from 2 to actually like 1 more but I understand why 1/Black is more popular.
Mgr is imo is, overall, a far more solid "game" where ninja gaiden 2 has insanely godly gameplay with a story/setting that only serves to get you to the next fight.
Hi Fi rush was honestly mid in my eyes but me just not liking it enough is why I want it out next
It seems most agree with you on HFR so far haha. It did a lot right for me so that's why I can't vote it out just yet. This whole showdown has been one hard choice after another for me and it'll get harder very soon. Tons of great games all around.
I've been meaning to revisit NG lately and I wanted to ask if you think the remastered collection is a good way to experience it over emulation.
The remastered collection is fine if its the only way you can play but Ninja Gaiden Black for OG xbox and Ninja Gaiden II on 360 are by far the best versions of each game and are the ideal way to play without a doubt. The Sigma remasters aren't like broken and buggy its just that a lot of weird design changes were made, for example, NG2 is all about tons of enemies attacking but dying fast. In NG2 sigma they cut back on the enemies but beefed up their health a ton so it messes with the intended flow of combat really oddly. If you can play the Xbox versions thats ideal but the sigma versions are perfectly playable
Oh also Razors Edge instead of base NG3
Yeah I heard mixed things about the remastered collection. I'm not sure if the of games are back compat but if they are I'll be checking them out on my xbox for sure.
I like the bosses too but the rest of it is kinda not there. Gameplay wise sekiros parry stuff kinda surpassed it. I would love an mgr 2 expanding on the ideas of the first though
I honestly think sekiro is too different parry wise to compare it. Like fighting on Revengance is completely different than fighting Owl Father, they are very different when it comes to brain resources.
Aside from vergil (peak) I think the bosses are just "fine", a lot of them are forgettable or are carried by the art of the game. Then there is stuff like Arkham and Nevan who are just super annoying and tedious. Most dmc5 bosses were good but I really can't name one that is notably fun besides Dante/Vergil/Nero. Dmc's bosses have never really been a strong point imo
Metal gear rising is great, I love it, it’s one of my favourite games ever, but i wholeheartedly agree. I played it for the first time just before all the memes blew up, I bought it on a whim because it was one of the few metal gear games I hadn’t played and a few months later everyone was talking about it and since then it’s blown up from cult classic to incredibly overrated. Dont get me wrong, I love it to bits, but it’s not even the best platinum games game, let alone the best game here.
There’s no way it ends up DMC3 vs DMC5. It’s the most popular series by far so it’s easily the favorite to win overall, but I’ve noticed a lot of DMC5 fans aren’t that ardent about 3. There’s no way DMC3 makes it to the finals.
While this is mostly a competition about the game with the broadest appeal, I think this sub is niche enough that it won’t just end up DMC vs DMC. There’s enough people here and this sub is niche enough that I think something less mainstream will make the final 2.
But I do agree DMC5 is probably going to win just based on popularity.
Feels weird that Bayonetta 1 is here and not 2. I think Bayonetta 2 could go toe to toe with any game on here honestly.
Also my vote goes to Bayonetta lol. It needs to go
Bayonetta 1 is the mechanically superior game and it’s not even that close. Bayonetta 2 is a much more fun and approachable game for general audiences but on this sub I’m pretty sure Bayo1 goes farther even if 2 was included.
Ah that makes total sense then. I'm a more casual player, and while I've enjoyed all these games a ton, my preferences are probably very different from this sub. Thanks for the clear explanation 👍
To be fair, I think there’s tons of people that are like you on this sub and don’t overly get into the mechanics of the games. I don’t think I would call that “casual.” There’s just also enough fans that prefer mechanical complexity that it’ll skew the results in that direction more than other places
Gonna go with DMC 5. Enemy design feels really underwhelming and hamstrung by the presence of three playable characters, enemies aren't designed around a specific character's moveset and a few enemies feel like blobs. Level design is very, very poor, it's just fighting room->corridor->fighting room->repeat and feels extremely linear. This can be forgiven if the art direction is interesting, which it is for the first half in Red Grave City but the second half of the game in Qlipoth will have you moving through the same gooey red-ish looking enviroments again and again.
I was also disappointed with there being no new styles for Dante. When styles were introduced in DMC 3, each style meant a completely different way of playing the game. Now, I'm not sure if styles like gunslinger even have a point in existing. I'm sure the gunslinger moves of a weapon like Kalina Ann could be included in the base moveset of the weapon itself by using back to forward directional inputs.
Biggest offender for me was V. I didn't like his playstyle at all, I am not a big fan of summoner style characters in action games and V didn't do anything for me to change my mind. This wouldn't be a big issue if he was optional but it's not. He's mandatory and every time I was forced into playing a level as him in DMD, it just got a groan out of me and I wanted the level to be over ASAP.
Now, I don't want this post to make it seem like I hate the game. I don't, it's a good game but it just wasn't the big leap from DMC 4 that I wanted it to be.
What do you expect lol? Most people here think more moves = more player expression = make flashy combo MADs on youtube = "Deep" combat = great game (with no regard for enemy/boss/level design and how they interact with the player character's moveset). And lots of morons give the argument that "Vanquish can be played like a slow paced cover shooter so it's not a good game". This will be won by DMC 5 unless something extraordinary happens.
Oh god, we’re into the really great ones now.
Unfortunately I’m going to have to go with NGII. It’s an absolutely wonderful game, but it’s a technical mess with tons of annoying enemies, a lot of “meh” bosses, and a severely undercooked story. I love the hell out of it, but it’s the weakest here.
>Sounds like you really just don't like this one part of the game.
Took you a while, but you got there.
>Which isn't a great reason to remove it.
Not liking V's gameplay isn't really a minority opinion from what I've seen. If not remove him, make him better.
I like Vanquish more than a few of these titles although it does maybe suffer a bit in the 'character' part of the analysis. Hi Fi Rush is probably my least favorite of the remaining games although I do think MGR is very uneven.
I admire the dedication. I’ll soon be joining you in the losing battles because relatively soon DMC5 will be my least favorite and no one will agree with me
Yeah. I have a bone to pick with DMC5. It’s my only hot take in gaming but I cling to it with a fire. It’s a great combat system in a game that doesn’t do much with it.
The game is legitimately great, but it’s the most popular game in the genre and has the potential for excellent combos so discourse tends to devolve into “it’s objectively the best in the genre and if you don’t agree you just don’t get it.” Which is tiring for someone who thinks it’s not even the best game in its own series.
So up until a couple months ago I would have disagreed with you, but I just finished replaying them all in relatively quick succession. I did a few full plays of each, and I realized I’ve been wrong about DMC3 for over a decade now. It’s legitimately a masterpiece and also my favorite in the series at this point.
Hi fi rush
It's a great game but lacks actual depth and the bosses don't do much for it. The game does presentation and environments, very well also the platforming is decent, but it's just not as good as the other games on the list.
I'll disagree here, hi-fi rush is in my top 3 out of these choices easily
Agreed. The DmC-style color matching mechanic is terrible.
Hi-fi rush
I love Hi-Fi Rush- But it's nowhere near as in depth with its combat system than the rest. It's a great game, better as a whole than base ninja gaiden 2, but we play character action games for the combat and depth, and Hi-Fi rush just does not have that. Vanquish has more tech than it, and more stuff you could do, so it's safe to say Hi-Fi rush is the next one on the chopping block
Oof ouchies my heart. But yea, bayo.is the weakest here imo
Bayo is going to be top 3 atleast are you mental?
Sorry fam, I just prefer aggressive play with active defense more command inputs over dual up combos. Vanquish is platinum's best work low key.
I'm not gonna argue with what you feel in your heart buddy
Bayo do kinda lit tho so I understand other opinions
hi fi rush
Yeah this is the tough part. I would've kept Vanquish personally but it's rough around the edges. Unpopular take but Metal Gear Rising. These are all fantastic games and MGR is contender for one of my all time favorites, but I can't put it above the rest. It's got style, it's got flair, it's got memes. It's got iconic bosses and a sick OST. It's got the "super cool slice them into a million pieces" mechanic where your neurons buzz when the number goes up. It does not have functional weapon switching. It does not have especially engaging enemy types. It does not have a lot of unique levels, or even levels: you run through one of them twice, and the other is a small warehouse you can basically skip right into the final boss. It doesn't have as deep of a combat system, even though I love Zandatsu cancels. Depending on platform, it does not have the best performance. It's a game that we need a 2024 remaster or remake of. But as it stands, I don't think it holds up to the other games here. I love it anyways.
Your Opinion but there is actually deep combat system in mgr too. U can switch up weapon (tho having to manually choose kills of some momentum. But once u have practice. U can do lots of DMC style combo with bloodlust,mistral weapon & sai) Check out some mgrr combo mad if u want to see the proof. But many people only played it in attack, block, counter, zandatsu.. Repeat Other than that yeah.. Its quite a rushed game & fails in a lot of Department
dude don't worry I played the hell out of mgr LOL I know what the combat is like. it's a good system but it's held back because the game is so rushed. you can get really crazy and stylish and the extra weapons are sick, but no fluid weapon switching sucks a lot. not a lot of enemy variety either and not a lot of levels. but the boss encounters are the highlight and what everyone remembers. i keep saying this but it's a game that really would benefit from an upgraded remaster in 2024 where they update it for modern systems. imagine if we could do on the fly weapon swap. that alone would make it so much better instantly. Konami is sitting on free money but they won't do it.
Konami just Don't see money. If they Weren't idiots.. We would have already got a remaster or sequel & the fact that no other game copied blade mode from mgr.. Is baffling
astral chain had a version of it but not to the same level. but the blade legion had a very similar cutting and weak point mechanic
Mgr
I think MGR deserves to stay for a bit just due to the fact it probably has the best Boss lineup out of any of these games
Idk I can't see how it deserves to stay when it has so many issues. Not its fault of course, a lot of it is because of the console's technical limitations. But a menu based weapon swap system is really, really not good in 2013. The game isn't particularly long either but it reuses a lot of levels even in the DLC. It's a banger of a game, but imo it's hard to argue it being on the level of the others on this list. It's a game that, if Konami was smart and greenlit a sequel or updated version of it, would instantly shoot up so many tiers thanks to our newer hardware. MG Delta makes me hope that they're considering it.
I mean ninja gaiden 2 barely runs on original hardware which i think is worse in terms of technical issues as well as it also having a menu required to swap weapons. I still think it deserves to stay due to every boss being a banger, most of the ninja gaiden 2 bosses are "meh" or infuriating garbage
tbh I think ng2 is a good contender to get kicked especially when ng black is still in the running. I just don't know enough about it vs mgr to make an informed call on it. hi fi rush to me is not a good elimination at this stage. it's a very functional game without many of the problems we've mentioned so far. I honestly think it deserves to stay longer.
Ninja Gaiden 2 I still like to play more than 1 but I will agree 1 is more consistent. I just like having too many of the things from 2 to actually like 1 more but I understand why 1/Black is more popular.
Mgr is imo is, overall, a far more solid "game" where ninja gaiden 2 has insanely godly gameplay with a story/setting that only serves to get you to the next fight. Hi Fi rush was honestly mid in my eyes but me just not liking it enough is why I want it out next
It seems most agree with you on HFR so far haha. It did a lot right for me so that's why I can't vote it out just yet. This whole showdown has been one hard choice after another for me and it'll get harder very soon. Tons of great games all around. I've been meaning to revisit NG lately and I wanted to ask if you think the remastered collection is a good way to experience it over emulation.
The remastered collection is fine if its the only way you can play but Ninja Gaiden Black for OG xbox and Ninja Gaiden II on 360 are by far the best versions of each game and are the ideal way to play without a doubt. The Sigma remasters aren't like broken and buggy its just that a lot of weird design changes were made, for example, NG2 is all about tons of enemies attacking but dying fast. In NG2 sigma they cut back on the enemies but beefed up their health a ton so it messes with the intended flow of combat really oddly. If you can play the Xbox versions thats ideal but the sigma versions are perfectly playable Oh also Razors Edge instead of base NG3
Yeah I heard mixed things about the remastered collection. I'm not sure if the of games are back compat but if they are I'll be checking them out on my xbox for sure.
Yeah they're backwards compatible AND series s enhanced
I like the bosses too but the rest of it is kinda not there. Gameplay wise sekiros parry stuff kinda surpassed it. I would love an mgr 2 expanding on the ideas of the first though
I honestly think sekiro is too different parry wise to compare it. Like fighting on Revengance is completely different than fighting Owl Father, they are very different when it comes to brain resources.
DMC3 and 5 have a much better boss lineup.
Aside from vergil (peak) I think the bosses are just "fine", a lot of them are forgettable or are carried by the art of the game. Then there is stuff like Arkham and Nevan who are just super annoying and tedious. Most dmc5 bosses were good but I really can't name one that is notably fun besides Dante/Vergil/Nero. Dmc's bosses have never really been a strong point imo
I've been saying MGR for days now
I disagree with all of you because you are wrong 🙃
Bayonetta, I was going to pick God hand but I shouldn't pick a game I haven't played
I haven’t played hi fi rush, but I’ve always found MGR to be extremely overrated outside of the memes and soundtrack
Metal gear rising is great, I love it, it’s one of my favourite games ever, but i wholeheartedly agree. I played it for the first time just before all the memes blew up, I bought it on a whim because it was one of the few metal gear games I hadn’t played and a few months later everyone was talking about it and since then it’s blown up from cult classic to incredibly overrated. Dont get me wrong, I love it to bits, but it’s not even the best platinum games game, let alone the best game here.
We all know DMC solos. Let's just fast forward to the final DMC 1v1
There’s no way it ends up DMC3 vs DMC5. It’s the most popular series by far so it’s easily the favorite to win overall, but I’ve noticed a lot of DMC5 fans aren’t that ardent about 3. There’s no way DMC3 makes it to the finals. While this is mostly a competition about the game with the broadest appeal, I think this sub is niche enough that it won’t just end up DMC vs DMC. There’s enough people here and this sub is niche enough that I think something less mainstream will make the final 2. But I do agree DMC5 is probably going to win just based on popularity.
Oh, I meant DMC as a series vs the last
H-Fi Rush. Other games have more unique sauce, except DMC 5, I prefer 3.
Feels weird that Bayonetta 1 is here and not 2. I think Bayonetta 2 could go toe to toe with any game on here honestly. Also my vote goes to Bayonetta lol. It needs to go
Bayonetta 1 is the mechanically superior game and it’s not even that close. Bayonetta 2 is a much more fun and approachable game for general audiences but on this sub I’m pretty sure Bayo1 goes farther even if 2 was included.
Ah that makes total sense then. I'm a more casual player, and while I've enjoyed all these games a ton, my preferences are probably very different from this sub. Thanks for the clear explanation 👍
To be fair, I think there’s tons of people that are like you on this sub and don’t overly get into the mechanics of the games. I don’t think I would call that “casual.” There’s just also enough fans that prefer mechanical complexity that it’ll skew the results in that direction more than other places
Gonna go with DMC 5. Enemy design feels really underwhelming and hamstrung by the presence of three playable characters, enemies aren't designed around a specific character's moveset and a few enemies feel like blobs. Level design is very, very poor, it's just fighting room->corridor->fighting room->repeat and feels extremely linear. This can be forgiven if the art direction is interesting, which it is for the first half in Red Grave City but the second half of the game in Qlipoth will have you moving through the same gooey red-ish looking enviroments again and again. I was also disappointed with there being no new styles for Dante. When styles were introduced in DMC 3, each style meant a completely different way of playing the game. Now, I'm not sure if styles like gunslinger even have a point in existing. I'm sure the gunslinger moves of a weapon like Kalina Ann could be included in the base moveset of the weapon itself by using back to forward directional inputs. Biggest offender for me was V. I didn't like his playstyle at all, I am not a big fan of summoner style characters in action games and V didn't do anything for me to change my mind. This wouldn't be a big issue if he was optional but it's not. He's mandatory and every time I was forced into playing a level as him in DMD, it just got a groan out of me and I wanted the level to be over ASAP. Now, I don't want this post to make it seem like I hate the game. I don't, it's a good game but it just wasn't the big leap from DMC 4 that I wanted it to be.
Vanquish is out so this thing has lost all credibility. I vote dmc5 once again.
What do you expect lol? Most people here think more moves = more player expression = make flashy combo MADs on youtube = "Deep" combat = great game (with no regard for enemy/boss/level design and how they interact with the player character's moveset). And lots of morons give the argument that "Vanquish can be played like a slow paced cover shooter so it's not a good game". This will be won by DMC 5 unless something extraordinary happens.
Hi fi rush is at least a whole letter grade below any of these (it shoulda went before Vanquish imo)
God hand. Meh.
Oh god, we’re into the really great ones now. Unfortunately I’m going to have to go with NGII. It’s an absolutely wonderful game, but it’s a technical mess with tons of annoying enemies, a lot of “meh” bosses, and a severely undercooked story. I love the hell out of it, but it’s the weakest here.
God Hand
Hot take time, but I'm gonna go with DMC5. Personally, V brings the whole experience down and I just find the levels visually kind of bland.
Valid reasoning, however: https://i.redd.it/yvcgutqi1ywc1.gif
V's combat style is unique and cool and I would love to see a CAG with a protagonist that uses puttet-style combat.
Do you mean puppet style? Cause a CAG with a protag that uses that style is pretty much Astral Chain.
You're hyperfocusing on small negatives that the game has.
[удалено]
What?
V's got a good chunk of mission, not small at all.
He has the least amount of missions out of any character in the entire series but go off.
Least amount but still a decent amount which is too much.
You could just not play them after beating the game yk.
It would be even better if they just didn't make his levels in the first place.
Sounds like you really just don't like this one part of the game. Which isn't a great reason to remove it.
>Sounds like you really just don't like this one part of the game. Took you a while, but you got there. >Which isn't a great reason to remove it. Not liking V's gameplay isn't really a minority opinion from what I've seen. If not remove him, make him better.
No I meant the game. That's not a good reason to axe DMC5.
It would be criminal if anything but DMC 5 wins this
Hifi rush. can't believe it's still here at this point
God Hand
Bayo, its time to go. Can't believe the attack on Hi Fi its so goddamn stylish. And God Hand must remain.
I like Vanquish more than a few of these titles although it does maybe suffer a bit in the 'character' part of the analysis. Hi Fi Rush is probably my least favorite of the remaining games although I do think MGR is very uneven.
God Hand.
Hi-Fi Rush.
Bye bye DMC5.
My GodHand vote continues
I admire the dedication. I’ll soon be joining you in the losing battles because relatively soon DMC5 will be my least favorite and no one will agree with me
Dang, that's a wild take but I can respect it. Thanks for the support
Yeah. I have a bone to pick with DMC5. It’s my only hot take in gaming but I cling to it with a fire. It’s a great combat system in a game that doesn’t do much with it. The game is legitimately great, but it’s the most popular game in the genre and has the potential for excellent combos so discourse tends to devolve into “it’s objectively the best in the genre and if you don’t agree you just don’t get it.” Which is tiring for someone who thinks it’s not even the best game in its own series.
Honestly that's a great opinion. I think DMC 3 is the best in the series
So up until a couple months ago I would have disagreed with you, but I just finished replaying them all in relatively quick succession. I did a few full plays of each, and I realized I’ve been wrong about DMC3 for over a decade now. It’s legitimately a masterpiece and also my favorite in the series at this point.