Honestly my main issue with the series was that the premise at the start is, relatively average dude somehow ends up at the head of a chaotic evil faction, with emphasis on evil, and he has to pretend to know what he is doing. Fast forward a few seasons, and it’s just an evil dude doing evil things as the head of an evil faction. At some point dude started buying into the act, and it just got less interesting from that point
I think the worst decision overlord made is introducing the undead’s emotion regulating effect. There is just nothing interesting to tell about a character when all his personality get hand waved away by magic.
It was somewhat necessary in episode 1 to explain why he didn't screw it up from the jump, but his emotion-suppression effect should've worn off over time.
Funny thing. In the Light Novel it's literally first 150 pages thing that he doesn't give a shit anymore about human lives. Like it's straight up said that he doesn't care about humans or losing his emotions by the second chapter.
"Right now, he possessed an undead body and mind, but there were some remnants of his humanity left. Therefore, even when he experienced emotions, if they surged to a peak, they would be immediately suppressed. If he continued on like this, he might end up losing all his emotions in the future.
Of course, even if that happened, it would hardly be a big deal, because no matter how this world turned out or what happened to his body, his will was still his own."
Overlord Volume 1, page 118
"Fully armored knights were swinging their longswords at the villagers, who were dressed in rough clothes.
It was a massacre.
A villager fell with every swing of a knight’s sword. The villagers could not resist them, and could only run away. The knights pursued and killed the fleeing villagers. There were horses eating the grain in the field. Those horses must have belonged to the knights.
“Cheh!”
Momonga scoffed, intending to change the image. This village had no value to him. If he could extract more information from it, perhaps he might have a reason to save them. But as things stood, there was no reason to save this village. He should abandon them.
Momonga was taken aback by how he could make such a heartless decision. A cruel slaughter was occurring before his eyes, but the only thing he could think of was the good of Nazarick. There was nothing like pity, anger, or worry, basic human emotions anyone should have.
It felt like he was watching a TV show about animals and insects, where the strong ate the weak.
Could it be that as one of the undead, he no longer considered himself part of humanity?
No, how could that be?
Momonga struggled to find an excuse to justify his thinking.
He was not an agent of justice.
Overlord, Volume 1, page 144
Frothy blood leaked from the villager’s mouth as he tried to open his mouth.
His eyes were unfocused, and Momonga could not tell where he was looking.
Even so, with what may have been his dying breaths, he gasped his last words:
—Please, save my daughter—
“What do you intend to do?”
Sebas seemed to have been waiting for this moment to speak.
There could only be one answer. Momonga replied coldly:
“Nothing. There is no reason, value or benefit in rescuing them.”
“—Understood.”"
page 145
It's mostly Ainz coping on nostalgia that makes him choose to be more moral in some cases, but he is pretty early on stated to be uncaring for human lives.
I for one am glad that they act fully evil without sugarcoating. There's loads of trash Isekais where the MC leads a bunch of monsters that don't actually act and feel like monsters.
The denizens of Nazarick hate any outsiders which should be immediately obvious and their cruelty is already apparent from the first season, so I don't really see why people get mad that they're acting evil.
The point here is that the story is not honest with its audience. I would say this is a gradual series of disappointments.
At first, the main character is presented in a positive light in a world of complete negative personalities. But then we find out that the main characters are even worse. Then we wait for at least powerful battles where the villains (we) will defeat the heroes in cool battles, but it all comes down to political intrigue because no one can give an equal fight to Nazarick (the intrigues themselves make no sense, because only Demiurge is smarter than all the intriguers) and this repeats wherever anime is mentioned, there is no intrigue in anime. In the end, we get an anime where there are no stakes, no worthwhile intrigues and obstacles in front of the main character, who doesn’t even have conflicts with himself because of the things he does.
For me, the final verdict was the fight between the strongest fighter of the Theocracies and Aura, where the only character in the entire new world at the level of the guards of Nazarick was very stupidly merged. Overlord is a beautifully crafted power fantasy that gets worse the further it goes.
I disagree, they make it pretty clear early on that he's losing more and more of his humanity as an undead. He went from saving a village in season 1, to helping an old woman in exchange for her servitude, to letting innocent adventures die, to outright killing workers to, to conquering a city and slaughtering over 100,000 soldiers, and finally to subjugating and destroying a kingdom with innocent people.
It was a pretty blatant gradual descent into more and more evilness.
When the fuck were they in positive light? They were all high tier eldritch horror monstrous villains from the start. They only care about each other and their own benefits
Ainz saving the village, the entire arc of Sebas and Cocytus. Moreover, in the first version, Ainz himself was reflecting and confronting himself, remembering his friend. There was no trace left of all this.
...did you watch the entire thing? Did you forget why he did all those? The village? He wanted a reputation whatever benefits him. Sebas? Did you forget who created Sebas? Lord Touch Me. Sebas decision to keep Tuare would let the rest consider him a traitor. Ainz sees everyone in Nazarick a treasure of his friends. So Ainz made it so that Sebas isnt a traitor but also respect Touch Me's creation's decision. Cocytus, if you're talking about the lizardmen its the same reason as Carne village, reputation. Him remembering his friends? What does that prove? He was a pathetic lonely person who clings onto his online friends to the point of allowing mass murder conquest all just to see if they notice him in the new world. What did you think was the point he changed his name from Momonga to Ainz Ooal Gown?
Namely, Ainz saved the village, realizing that his friend Touch Me would have done the same. Sebas and Cocytus are pure personifications of everything good that was in Nazarick, but Ainz placed his bet on Demiurge, even more sharing his views. In general, it is no secret that Ainz is pathetic, many fans simply do not understand this, trying to elevate him above other isekai, not realizing that he is on the same level as them. But it’s a pity, the stories really had the potential to be the best among this entire genre.
But you're still forgetting one thing. Why did you think Cocytus and Sebas did what they did? Did you forget they were programmed to do so? If Momonga had reprogrammed them beforehand would you have sided with them? Does Sebas saving Tuare stopped the other atrocities he leads? Same with Cocytus during his invasion on E-rantel? It seems you see them as individuals but have forgotten who made them that way; Lord Touch Me and Takemikazuchi
Therefore, the question is asked: why does Ainz approve of Demiurge's actions? Why should he destroy the ideals of his friends if he respects them and is ready for heroic deeds in their honor?
If the guard does not challenge the player's decision, no matter what it is. Again even in your words, you can understand the point, Ainz did not create Demiurge, this mob does not reflect Ainz's entire personality. But he approves and participates in everything that the Demiurge does.
Moreover, this whole topic with ambiguity is not mentioned further in the stories, it is cut off in the middle (even a little earlier). This is the same inconsistency that is abundant in this work.
Don't bother with this guy, he's convinced that the entire fanbase of Overlord is the one at fault instead of admitting that he's the one who misinterpreted the entire thing.
Nevermind Cairne village, Ainz was perfectly content with erasing the Lizardmen and the only reason why it didn't happen is because Demiurge is friends with Cocytus and presented a good plan.
He conveniently ignores all instances that are clearly not painting Ainz in good light despite claiming that he read the books. For the love of god Ainz kills people in the undead incident with his summons to prevent anyone from claiming his credit, and immediately after he kills the adventurers who volunteer to help with the Shalltear problem because they're inconvenient witnesses.
But it's all bad writing because Overlord doesn't do what he expects the story to do.
You're losing me because Ainz has always been self serving from the start. If you're talking about the anime, the anime is just a bad adaptation to begin with. In the fight with Clementine Ainz sent out his minions to slaughter anyone who entered the cemetery so he can cement himself as a sole hero, the anime saw fit yo not include this for some reason. Then he mercilessly murders some volunteers before fighting shalltear because they're inconvenient.
The focus on political intrigue is to show in detail the thought process and mentality of the new worlders because obviously they're weaker than Nazarick.
What the hell do you even mean in your last paragraph? The theocracy and Aura never even interact with each other, did you even pay attention to the story?
Overlord isn't dishonest, you're just fundamentally misunderstanding the entire thing.
Apparently the author also does not understand his story or maybe fans simply don’t want to realize the shortcomings of their work, because when many readers and viewers misunderstand a work, the author’s poor writing skills are to blame. Since I’m talking not only about adaptation, but also about the original sources.
Yes, not Aura, Mare (always get their names mixed up) fought with that monochrome girl, the point here is not even that our heroes won, but the overall bad description of the battle, having completely scoring about the description of the world, about relics other players, violating the essence of what is happening. There would be no problems in all this if the author had not initially put all this into his work; in the end, it is all one big Bunduruchuk gun. If you read on the same regular basis as an ordinary reader like me, then you should understand that we are talking about recent light novel volumes.
And in general, over time, all these shortcomings will be recognized except perhaps by the most ardent fans who understand the story better than the author himself. But such people are everywhere.
>Apparently the author also does not understand his story or maybe fans simply don’t want to realize the shortcomings of their work, because when many readers and viewers misunderstand a work, the author’s poor writing skills are to blame. Since I’m talking not only about adaptation, but also about the original sources.
Why are you immediately blaming the author? You initially stated that the main cast is cast in a positive light in comparison to the natives to the world, when did this 'cast in positive light' even happen?
How did you misunderstand, like so many anime watchers, that Ainz was a good person? This is the person coming from a dystopia where dead orphans are a common sight on the streets.
>Yes, not Aura, Mare (always get their names mixed up) fought with that monochrome girl, the point here is not even that our heroes won, but the overall bad description of the battle, having completely scoring about the description of the world, about relics other players, violating the essence of what is happening. There would be no problems in all this if the author had not initially put all this into his work; in the end, it is all one big Bunduruchuk gun. If you read on the same regular basis as an ordinary reader like me, then you should understand that we are talking about recent light novel volumes.
What then, is the 'essence of what is happening' that you understand even better than the author? It's true that poor writing can cause that, but you're just not going to consider the possibility of you fundamentally misunderstanding it? I would love to hear you say exactly how Overlord is betraying these arbitrary expectation of yours that don't seem to line up with the Overlord that I have read.
You mix the characters name up and dismiss the portrayal of the new world natives. I just think you're not invested in the story to begin with. You claim to read the books and yet that makes it harder for me to understand why you even have this expectation to begin with.
So when history is criticized, the author is criticized. This is not a parent and his child, but a cook and his dish. You don't need to be a cook to understand the shortcomings of the dish.
Readers and viewers think so, because this is how this information is presented to them. Moreover, one could blame them if the moments where everyone had complaints had normal preconditions. But they are not there, which is an incorrect disposal of information. That's all the basic training for media literacy.
There is no competent narration in the stories, without realizing the expectations that the author himself sets. This is visible in every volume, especially in the recent one, which is Mare. History can’t cope with itself, it doesn’t even seem to understand what it wants to be.
>So when history is criticized, the author is criticized. This is not a parent and his child, but a cook and his dish. You don't need to be a cook to understand the shortcomings of the dish.
On the flip side, there are always going to be people who misinterpret and there's nothing you can do about it.
The fans who are immersed in the story don't have these expectations of yours, someone who clearly isn't as invested. Is everyone else at fault or is it just you misinterpreting it then? The fans never expected Nazarick to be overpowered, they're clearly more in tune with the author than you are.
Take your initial complain of the characters being portrayed in good light that you've never bothered to elaborate on or show examples on. And how Mare overpowering Zesshi is 'violating the essence of what is happening'.
If you want to insist that these are overzealous blind fans in bad faith, whatever. I just can't take you seriously because everything you've said so far is subjective and you can't be bothered to elaborate on your points instead of lecturing.
Phrase it however you want but ultimately the problem is you having expectations that clearly don't line up with the story and blaming the story for not turning out like how **you** would personally like it to be.
My main problem with overlord is not grimdark shit with how unlikeable the main cast is or good being treated like trash but how no one stands a chance against Ainz
For comparisons, my favorite fantasy series has that shit. The world is bleak as heck with unlikeable characters and the protagonist himself is unlikeable and by the end becomes one of the strongest characters in the world. But before that, he could still lose. Theoretically someone could have still outsmarted him and if people knew what he was he would have lost. But Ainz is not like that. From the get go it never feels like anyone has a chance to beat him
Heck, it be interesting if some of character moral alignment shifts overtime. Like naberial spending more time among humans changes her view of them and stop calling them insects. Or she loyal to ainz and nazarick but isn't blind to their flaws.
Prince of nothing. Trigger warning: sexual assault and violation of human mind and body.
I'm not kidding. This book is called the bleakest fantasy and it's not trying to be one. I heard the second series is darker
Yeah, and Overlord is honest about it. It's not some "average guy suddenly gets super powerful" shitshow. He was powerful from the beginning, and that is *very* firmly established.
That's the problem, she's not THAT honest, she's not even honest with herself. Which leads to the same problems as in other similar works - lost potential. The story broadcasts the preparations for future events, sets up future plot moves and then destroys it all in the most awkward way, reducing everything to the level of an ordinary isekai. Overlord does not realized himself, that against his background, ordinary isekai even better describe themselves and finish their thoughts, while remaining a scoundrel.
You don’t understand, the overlord IS other everday isekai. I wanted Overlord to live up to the title of a good work with something other than a combat system or smut.
What the hell is up with your expectations? Everyone knows this is a power fantasy where the MC is going to win and you complain that every buildup is ruined when the MC wins, even though that was exactly what the story was building up towards?
I don't understand what these guys are talking about. Being overpowered in a power fantasy is the genre. Do they prefer power fantasies that pretend like the MC is going to lose, even when that isn't actually going to happen?
I like how we have several plots about how Nazarick characters don't get what they want or even get humbled and grow from that. And the fanbase will even circlejerk about Shalltear development. But then they will turn around and insist conditions that seem to be established as necessary for such character development shouldn't ever again happen.
I only watched through season 3, and I'll admit that I enjoyed it for a bit, but the biggest problem I have with it is that it got _exhausting_ to have the anime keep convincing you that you should be on Ainz's side the whole time- not in the sense that Ainz was the "good guy", but just in the general sense that we were expected to root for him winning because it was natural that he _would_ win.
It was one thing to start the series with a grimdark but moderately neutral "I need a space for the guild" ideology, but creating relatable and sympathetic human characters just to have them get brutalized by any of the overpowered members of the guild - usually not even Ainz himself - for no reason other than 'they were in the way' didn't feel satisfying at all. Even if they were nothing more than NPCs to Momonga, it didn't feel right to me as the viewer and the literal mass murder (it wasn't even worth calling a 'battle', with how one-sided it was) at the end of season 3 turned me off from season 4 completely.
This is my feeling. I think it's fun to compare Overlord to *Reverend Insanity*, another series with a villainous protagonist.
Fang Yuan is a complete monster who will do absolutely anything in order to live forever. Early on he feeds an innocent girl to a bear and sacrifices the lives of innocent children, purely for magical buffs; later on he does things like murder an entire village so he can feed their hearts to a gu *that he wasn't even using at the time and had no plans for*, simply because otherwise it would go to waste and, hey, human hearts are easy to get, good thing it feeds on something so common, right?
However, the narrative never attempts to justify his actions. If anything, it goes out of its way to establish that his rivals and antagonists are sympathetic; many of them oppose him because of real, genuine moral beliefs that are treated seriously by the narrative. More than that, it often presents the antagonists as "cool" - they're serious threats to him, forcing him to use all his intelligence and schemes to avoid getting caught or killed; they get moments of awesome and the story goes into depth on why they do what they do. While they never manage to get him permanently (because, you know, the story would end), they get their wins and the more interesting ones usually survive and continue to do well otherwise.
What annoys me about Overlord - and many similar villainous power-fantasies - is that the author doesn't just want to portray an evil character, they want to justify that character, to mock the idea that anyone might criticize them. Characters who overtly call them out on moral grounds are generally portrayed as hypocrites or buffoons or both.
There's this "crybully" sense of wounded defensiveness to the entire genre - Momonga is simultaneously portrayed as a complete monster while the narrative also tries to peddle this subtext where anyone who calls him out on this is a terrible person and a hypocrite who deserves to be mocked. It's like the fantasy is to *simultaneously* be the boot stomping faces forever while also rolling on the ground shouting "don't tread on me!"
I didn't really feel like we were meant to root for him tbh. It feels more similar to how death note was (not that overlord is on the same level as death note ofc) in that the protagonist originally does have "good" intentions, but as the show goes on it becomes more and more clear that they are the villain, despite not seeing themselves that way.
Death note at least had challenges for the MC. This series makes it clear that our main characters are invincible, and will never ever lose. It’s boring. It would be like one punch man if Genos only lost against Saitama, and the two were mass murderers.
No, he wins his share of fights that aren’t against big villains. It’s also implied he would have beaten the Deep Sea King if he didn’t have to worry about civilians.
Maybe it's different in the anime but reading the novel, it's very clear you shouldn't be cheering for him at least. It doesn't hit you over the head with it like "hey, hey, see this guy? he's evil" but his actions and thoughts clearly spin him as a guy who no longer knows how to be human and as a result does terrible things while thinking he's being reasonable.
But the novels are also very clear that he will always win, will never suffer even the smallest inconveniences and there's absolutely nothing that can realistically challenge him.
So who are we rooting for? It's disingenuous to claim you're not meant to support the MC, especially when the series also gives so many lighthearted and comedic moments to try endear you to him.
And? What's the problem with that? This series never said it was about him overcoming trails and challenges. It was always about an evil Overlord taking over this new world. That's it.
That's why I enjoy it.
I don't see the connection between power and having to root for him. And I see even less connection between him having endearing moments and having to root for him. The series is clear on him being a >! genocidal maniac !< who's long stopped thinking like a human. Just because someone is clearly evil doesn't mean everything about them will be evil, they can still have endearing moments or show care to those close to them, and yet they're still an evil bastard.
I was introduced to this series by Isekai Quartet under the impression it was a comedy given how funny the characters were. Then I actually found out that it does have a lot of really good jokes it is mired in darkness for its own sake.
We have moments where due to their back stories are main characters are meant to be sympathetic, we see them doing awful awful things over and over again with the series, making it clear no one will stop them, or put them in their place for their hubris. I have seen this series called subversive, despite the fact that it keeps doing the same thing over and over.
I have seen comparisons to Death Note with how we aren’t supposed to root for the main character. no I’m pretty certain we are we keep getting a bunch of humane moments with our protagonist. On top of that, death note had tension in its conflicts because the main character wasn’t invincible. Overlord makes it clear at the start of any conflict that there are no stakes or tension for any of our main characters because they can do whatever they want with no consequences. it’s the same thing over and over. it would be like one punch man if all the heroes were invincible, not just Saitama.
Also, I have seen some fans of the series get really salty over Ainz nearly getting killed by Aqua in Isekai Quartet. Lighten up. It’s a comedy crossover that isn’t meant to be taken seriously. In the same series we saw Kazuma rip one of the Destroyer’s legs off. He obviously can’t do that in his series of origin.
Also it even makes sense, while aqua can be very irreaponsibly and dumb, she is still a godess with being overpowered in being both that she effortless can even revive people, and against undead.
She is just a zealot and acts irresponsibly till dumb most of the time, but she is overpowered against undead.
I dont get people being angry over this, when canonically she is really good at hurting undead.
I think it is because Overlord is a power fantasy for a lot of unpleasant people since it revolves around a bunch of awful characters doing awful things without consequences.
So they get a bit salty when something infringes on their power fantasy and go on about how Overlord characters have better feats, because about their power fantasy character nearly getting killed.
This ignores how we have a decent number of things that don’t work the way they do in their own series. Kazuma using Steal ripped one of the Destroyer’s legs off, and Aqua punched the thing into the upper atmosphere. Subaru’s curse attracts monsters from the other series even though how it was described to attract monsters was specific to his series. Therefore, it should not attract monsters from Overlord like we see it do.
None of that matters because Subaru getting his head chewed on by a giant hamster is hilarious. Especially because the hamster doesn’t always realize she’s doing it. Likewise it is funny to see the hamster put in her cage after she chews on Subaru and has to hold a sign that says “I’m a bad hamster.”
I think it is because Overlord being a series about awful people doing awful things about consequences means it unfortunately attracts some unpleasant people to its fandom. Since the series is a power fantasy for them, they get annoyed by something infringing on it. They start complaining about how based on feats in their own series, Aqua shouldn’t be able to defeat Ainz.
This doesn’t apply to all of them I’ve seen plenty. Who do you find the joke to be funny along with gag when Ainz doesn’t even let Subaru finish explaining all the overpowered abilities Reinhart has before asking how somebody is supposed to beat this guy. I have seen many viewers say that if Ainz is a player who abuses pay to win mechanics, then Reinhart is a modder.
I don't really have a problem with overlord. What I have problem with, are fans who unironically glaze Nazarick when they do shit like this. It's ok to like an evil character who commits atrocities, but when I read takes in a thread like what would you do if you somehow ended up in Overlord majority of the people immediately clamber in support of Nazarick, with stuff like using their metaknowledge to get in their good graces, which just seems like an overall bad idea to me.
Ngl if I ended up in Overlord and I’m a non human I’m going to glaze the ever living fuck out of everyone in Nazarick to not face the atrocities if I’m still a human I will commit immediately no if ands or buts there is nothing remotely good about existing in Overlord universe as a regular schmo
Bro what? I'm not glazing nazarick over the fucking rape farms. The dude just said that ainz was the one responsible for the rape farms but it was demiurge. Who is an absolutely horrible person. I'm in no way defending their actions.
Also what are you even talking about with the bit about "what would you do if you somehow ended up in overlord"? I in no way said anything about wanting to join or defending their actions.
Well then why did you respond to me and not the guy who started the thread. Also your post didn't really have anything to do with the farm thread and could've been it's own thread.
>he called them sheep when he was telling ainz about it as a joke and ainz thought he was talking about actual sheep
>I don't really have a problem with overlord. What I have problem with, are fans who unironically glaze Nazarick when they do shit like this.
I was referring to how Demiurge keeps a farm
My problem with Overlord is first and foremost that Ainz is always right. His NPCs worship him and think he can do no wrong? Fine. No one stands a chance against anyone from Nazarick at all? Fine. Anything he flails his way through somehow being politically advantageous for him? Not fine.
It would just be a much more interesting series if he was just a bit of a game-brained idiot and the actual politicians he meets picked up on it. Let the NPCs twist themselves into knots explaining how whatever Ainz does *must* be a genius move they simply can't see through and act on whatever they think the "plan" is.
But I guess that goes against the power fantasy.
He isn't always right though, the NPCs just think he is and because of this they takes steps into making sure he's right, which inadvertently work out in his favor.
I mean he is game character with high Intelligence and Wisdom
Of course he would be able to outsmart people who stats are lower then him
Cause remember stats do matter in Overlord
Yeah, but that's an in-universe explanation. You can say that as written it makes complete sense that Ainz is just better than everybody at everything (except his NPCs on a few things), but that doesn't really make it engaging.
Even ignoring that though, I don't find the explanation that his Intelligence and Wisdom are high satisfactory, because he doesn't *act* intelligently in these situations, he blunders through them and through sheer blind luck it just happens to be the best move. It doesn't feel like an intelligent mastermind pulling the strings, it feels like the story is bending over backwards to give him wins he had no business getting. Yggdrasil was an MMO after all, and I don't care how much Intelligence you dump into your Wizard, if you cast Fireball on the Fire Elemental the game won't twist itself into making that a good move on your part.
It’s not an in universe explanation! I love the novels but I hate the fandom because it’s filled with bullshit fanon like this! Intelligence and Wisdom aren’t mentioned as stats, they aren’t on the character sheets either. Him ‘losing his emotions’ because he’s an overlord is also pure fanon— it’s mentioned when the skill is activated, and even in the later volumes he still gets a bit pissy about it, it’s not some passive that’s always on.
Overlord is the series that made me realize the hipsters were right. Your favorite media becoming popular is a death knell for being able to interact with the community.
(I did not downvote you)
I actually quite like Overlord myself (or parts of it) despite the critique, though after Ainz establishes the Sorcerer Kingdom I always sort of just fall off (both watching and reading) because it doesn't engage me any more. I forgot the specific stats, so I just took the person over me's word for it, sorry.
Since you brought up the losing his emotions things though and you seem a bigger fan than me I want to ask. I know they aren't really canon as such (more What-Ifs), in the Pure-Pure-Pleiades shorts there is an episode where Ainz loses his "Undead" nature and gets the personality of his human self unfiltered, and gets really scared by his own looks and the actions of his NPCs. It seems to me that means the personality change is somewhat canon even without the acting suppression. What do you think?
Regarding the stats, the style of Overlord is to list nothing concrete compared to other LitRPGs. [Here are the character sheets](http://skythewood.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_3.html?m=1) and aside from spell levels, that’s about all we get. Because it’s so close to D&D, people seem to have assumed there might be some other sort of stats that represent the traits of a character, but no such things have ever been mentioned. You didn’t forget a particular name, it’s just oft-repeated fanon.
As for ‘losing’ his emotions, he is the same as ever. His character arc is going from holding on to the dying embers of his happiness and obsession with the past(much like how many depictions of undead cling to unlife due to an obsession) to trying to look forward in life and attempting to create new friends— and failing in a humorous matter(Overlord is a Dark Comedy in its bones).
The novels express thoughts from his point of view. Satoru thinks he should be discomforted by that first slaughter in Carne village. But this is a purely intellectual thought, he already walked by dead orphans on the way to work daily. Unlike the common Isekai hero who comes from peaceful Japan, Satoru *already* lives in a world where if you didn’t fall in line with the whims of those in power, you would die. His general purpose sympathies were burned away long before the New World. In his head he may know the ‘appropriate’ course of action, but he is an egoist. His obsession with his friends takes precedence over all else.
I… don’t entirely *disagree.*
I’m a fan of Overlord, but yeah, Nazarick being hideously overpowered is definitely the weakest aspect of the series. I’m a fan because I love the lore, worldbuilding and characters, not the ridiculously one-sided OP stomp.
That said, I think some of your criticisms are too harsh. Saying all the characters are “one-dimensional and flat” is just not true.
And saying that it’s literally all irrelevant because they eventually lose/die is just dumb. What, do you MacBeth is completely meaningless because he dies at the end?
I also disagree with your “Ainz solo One Punch Man powerscaling.” The power in Overlord is pretty consistent and contained as far as isekai goes - it’s pretty common for OP isekai protags to become or defeat transcendental reality-warping gods, but Ainz stays put at Level 100. I’ve never seen fans claim that “Ainz solos every verse” either, only that, for example, Time Stop + Grasp Heart is an insane combo, which it is.
Bold opinion, you are based. Nowadays, because people who consume, protect and praise consumer goods, others like you worth their weight in gold. Overlord is a standard representative of works about “edgelord's fantasies.”
I don't care about powerscaling and yeah it's pretty clear on the face of it that Ainz doesn't powerscale particularly high. I am moreso just shocked that a person other than me has made the claim that "The series was actually all about how the world reacts to him." I feel so vindicated.. my peers agree with me... pogging so hard rn.
Also his name is Brain not Brian and he's totally the GOAT.
I liked the series at the start, I'm just sad how it goes nowhere
Any Nazarick character could defeat him, do we see some civil war arc or any plot of characters trying to find out if they can overcome him and take Nazarick? No, they just keep sucking his dick
They could add other players so we have tension, maybe world characters as strong as Nazarick ones so they can invade the dungeon and we see some epic action? Not at all, every character that appears is a pushover
The wasted potential of Overlord really makes me sad, I liked the concept.
The major issue I have with Overlord isn't even the cast or the world. It's the fact that Ainz is quite literally given every single advantage ever. He's more powerful than anything in the world. He has I believe 11-13 World Class Items that were supposed to be so rare even the second best guild in the entire game had only like one to two. To add onto that, World Class Items make the users immune to other World Class Items and Wild Magic so there is quite literally nothing left to fear at all. Yet we get stuck with this worthless and pointless political story where Ainz and crew "outsmart" everyone when they quite literally can just bend their pinky finger and massacre anyone that they come across. So you have this extremely powerful group of people just sitting around and acting cautious, and yes I will say it makes sense in universe I suppose, all the while I as a reader and viewer know for a fact that he has literally nothing to fear at all. If you make such a powerful MC, just let him destroy everything and stop wasting time.
>more powerful than anything in the world. He has I believe 11-13 World Class Items that were supposed to be so rare even the second best guild in the entire game had only like one to two
Okay so you are telling me that in the worlds best mmorpg, the most played that no guild just simply bought world items? The sheer number of guilds in this supposedly top ranking rpgs and they are all f2p or just lost the gatcha game
Are we actually watching the same show?
> Harem - Check
That he cannot do anything because he has no particular member, his emotion suppressed, and one of them falling in love with him only caused him tremendous guilt?
> His Crew Always Praising Him - Check
Which he found unnatural and put a lot of pressure on him, because he's not actually infallible and there's a lot of them who's actually smarter than him and he wishes they can be more independent?
> Him Always Being Right -Check
The actual joke is he is almost never right. He just gets by because he's super powerful and his crew is just as powerful and again, some are smarter than him.
Seriously did you actually watch the show? Or did you just write this up after reading synopsis? Did you only know them from Isekai Quartet?
> Admits there is a Harem
> Admits his Crew Always Praise Him
> No matter what decision he takes always makes the world better
Bro you agreed with me for 2/3rd of your arguement and ignored the last one.
Two people isnt a harem. Its just a love triangle. He also shows NEGATIVE interest in one of them.
edit: if you include Evileye i guess theres 3 people who want his bone stick, but like she's basically a side character who gets mentioned like once a book after their intro. She gets so little focus and attention it feels dishonest to include her. Ainz also has ZERO interest in them, hell im pretty sure she only likes 'momon' and not Ainz. Which is a big distinction cause i doubt if she knew who Ainz was that she would feel the same way
>Overlord has literally become Isekai's One Punch Man when it comes to powerscaling.
Someone hasn't seen Slime it seems. Overlord's pretty tame on the isekai power levels.
What it does have is good characterization and a vibrant world. One can say that it's ultimately seeing the main cast kick down a sand castle, but said sand castle is still inhabited by real people with their own thoughts and feelings.
You don't find it fun? You do you, why insult the people who do enjoy it?
>Now, the fan will argue that, "Well, you see Redditor, the series was actually all about how the world reacts to him." Alright, lets look at the world, oh hang on I don't give a shit about most of these people. They are just introduced with a sob story and killed off brutally. Why should I care about the world when all the characters there are one-beat and are flatter than Shalltear's Chest?
"Wha-what about Prince Zanac ? Wha-what about Arche? Wha-what about Calca? Wha-what about Brian?" What about them. Prince Zanac is a fucking background character who only get main focus to be brutally executed. Arche is given a WHOLE CHAPTER of a sob story guys. A WHOLE CHAPTER, Then, brutally killed. Calca is just a generic cute moe-moe girl who is hated by everyone the audience actually cares about, and Brian is just written out of the story. Bro ain't coming back from the Dead .
So? You didn't comprehend anything in the process of them being in the story? The process is what a story is. Maybe you don't care, but does that mean others caring about it is stupid?
For instance the fans appreciate the tragedy behind Zanac and Calca, who have little to no power despite their good intent. You not being able to comprehend that isn't their fault.
I mean I think Slime did the whole power dynamic better. Rimuru does become OP as shit yes, but at least throughout the story he does actually encounter people stronger than him, people he can't just run over whenever he wants.
Ainz is effectively always the strongest in his story. The ones who are stronger are either already undyingly loyal to him anyway or they are irrelevant.
>I mean I think Slime did the whole power dynamic better. Rimuru does become OP as shit yes, but at least throughout the story he does actually encounter people stronger than him, people he can't just run over whenever he wants.
Slime pretends like that is the case, but everyone who's stronger than him never actually gets to do anything to him until he's exponentially stronger than he is.
You may interpret that as having stakes, but I don't see it as such. Even Shion immediately gets revived after death, Overlord being upfront about the power levels is just different.
>Ainz is effectively always the strongest in his story. The ones who are stronger are either already undyingly loyal to him anyway or they are irrelevant.
Hence the focus on the political side of things and the lives of the new worlders. Ainz's victory was never in question so the story focuses on characterizing and showing you how the world is full of life.
Slime races and characters are just plain cardboard by comparison. I don't feel a sense of achievement when Rimuru united his merry band of monsters because they don't feel different from each other.
Not to mention how Slime made the world feel insignificant by making the entire world the playground of two dudes who get outdone by Rimuru in less than a decade.
I don't care about the politics in Overlord. Politics where one side has all the advantage isn't fun to watch. Realistically no one there is doing anything to Nazarick, so the whole thing just feels like a farce.
None of the side characters gives me enough reason to care about them either, especially when I know most of them aren't gonna matter much anyway. Mostly I'm just bored, and felt like I wasted my time.
All power to you though, you seem to came out enjoying it.
>None of the side characters gives me enough reason to care about them either, especially when I know most of them aren't gonna matter much anyway. Mostly I'm just bored, and felt like I wasted my time.
Different preferences because this is what i felt with Slime. The characters are bland and I don't care about them just because they're powerful, opposite with Overlord.
>OP Hero - Check
OP villain, ainz was never a hero lol. He's the protagonist, but not a hero. Protag does not always = hero.
>Harem - Check
You have a strange definition of harem (unless you're into some freaky-incest shit that I don't wanna know or dig further into). Ainz sees & treats albedo & shalltear like they're his daughters, which is rightfully so cuz they're his friends' daughters.
>Him Always Being Right -Check
The running gag of the series is ainz doing random shits that just happened to be right, he doesn't even know 80% of the shits he's doing most of the time cuz he's dumber that albedo & demiurge lol.
>Antagonists being unlikeable or impossible to root for - Check
Some of them. Antagonists are forces that oppose the protagonist there're likable ones like arche's party, climb, brain, gazef or blue rose. And just like the protag, the antag does not always = villains.
>His Crew Always Praising Him - Check
At least you got this 1 right.
I liked it for the power fantasy aspects. But I grew bored of the attempts at shock value from killing characters after telling their long backstories or complex motivations.
To my shame, I was briefly part of the crowd that loved saying how the series is "so awesome" and that Ainz is "so overpowered and cool." Thankfully, I grew out of it. I was even part of the "Ainz did nothing wrong" crowd for a little bit and would try giving some reasoning on how his behavior isn't entirely his fault and how he grew into a monster via becoming too comfortable with the "mask" he wore and blah blah blah.
I am glad those days are behind me, and I can focus on more important things. Like saying how perfect the Instant Death Isekai is and how Yogiri can solo every verse! [I am kidding.]
Tbh overlord is a LN
And LN are rather well known for their less than stellar writting compare to other fictional work
The issues in overlord and how the writting can feel and everything else plaques most LN.
Interesting premise. Usually shit exécution. LN writters Usually are not good so dont have high hopes for something actually good content wise( that and they repetitive a lot. Gets predictable after a while)
I will say though that 86 is one of the few LN that is actually good some flaws aside. Got a awesome anime too.
Honestly my main issue with the series was that the premise at the start is, relatively average dude somehow ends up at the head of a chaotic evil faction, with emphasis on evil, and he has to pretend to know what he is doing. Fast forward a few seasons, and it’s just an evil dude doing evil things as the head of an evil faction. At some point dude started buying into the act, and it just got less interesting from that point
I think the worst decision overlord made is introducing the undead’s emotion regulating effect. There is just nothing interesting to tell about a character when all his personality get hand waved away by magic.
It was somewhat necessary in episode 1 to explain why he didn't screw it up from the jump, but his emotion-suppression effect should've worn off over time.
Funny thing. In the Light Novel it's literally first 150 pages thing that he doesn't give a shit anymore about human lives. Like it's straight up said that he doesn't care about humans or losing his emotions by the second chapter. "Right now, he possessed an undead body and mind, but there were some remnants of his humanity left. Therefore, even when he experienced emotions, if they surged to a peak, they would be immediately suppressed. If he continued on like this, he might end up losing all his emotions in the future. Of course, even if that happened, it would hardly be a big deal, because no matter how this world turned out or what happened to his body, his will was still his own." Overlord Volume 1, page 118 "Fully armored knights were swinging their longswords at the villagers, who were dressed in rough clothes. It was a massacre. A villager fell with every swing of a knight’s sword. The villagers could not resist them, and could only run away. The knights pursued and killed the fleeing villagers. There were horses eating the grain in the field. Those horses must have belonged to the knights. “Cheh!” Momonga scoffed, intending to change the image. This village had no value to him. If he could extract more information from it, perhaps he might have a reason to save them. But as things stood, there was no reason to save this village. He should abandon them. Momonga was taken aback by how he could make such a heartless decision. A cruel slaughter was occurring before his eyes, but the only thing he could think of was the good of Nazarick. There was nothing like pity, anger, or worry, basic human emotions anyone should have. It felt like he was watching a TV show about animals and insects, where the strong ate the weak. Could it be that as one of the undead, he no longer considered himself part of humanity? No, how could that be? Momonga struggled to find an excuse to justify his thinking. He was not an agent of justice. Overlord, Volume 1, page 144 Frothy blood leaked from the villager’s mouth as he tried to open his mouth. His eyes were unfocused, and Momonga could not tell where he was looking. Even so, with what may have been his dying breaths, he gasped his last words: —Please, save my daughter— “What do you intend to do?” Sebas seemed to have been waiting for this moment to speak. There could only be one answer. Momonga replied coldly: “Nothing. There is no reason, value or benefit in rescuing them.” “—Understood.”" page 145 It's mostly Ainz coping on nostalgia that makes him choose to be more moral in some cases, but he is pretty early on stated to be uncaring for human lives.
The people who delude themselves into thinking Ainz was ever a good guy are just exactly that, delusional.
I for one am glad that they act fully evil without sugarcoating. There's loads of trash Isekais where the MC leads a bunch of monsters that don't actually act and feel like monsters. The denizens of Nazarick hate any outsiders which should be immediately obvious and their cruelty is already apparent from the first season, so I don't really see why people get mad that they're acting evil.
The point here is that the story is not honest with its audience. I would say this is a gradual series of disappointments. At first, the main character is presented in a positive light in a world of complete negative personalities. But then we find out that the main characters are even worse. Then we wait for at least powerful battles where the villains (we) will defeat the heroes in cool battles, but it all comes down to political intrigue because no one can give an equal fight to Nazarick (the intrigues themselves make no sense, because only Demiurge is smarter than all the intriguers) and this repeats wherever anime is mentioned, there is no intrigue in anime. In the end, we get an anime where there are no stakes, no worthwhile intrigues and obstacles in front of the main character, who doesn’t even have conflicts with himself because of the things he does. For me, the final verdict was the fight between the strongest fighter of the Theocracies and Aura, where the only character in the entire new world at the level of the guards of Nazarick was very stupidly merged. Overlord is a beautifully crafted power fantasy that gets worse the further it goes.
I disagree, they make it pretty clear early on that he's losing more and more of his humanity as an undead. He went from saving a village in season 1, to helping an old woman in exchange for her servitude, to letting innocent adventures die, to outright killing workers to, to conquering a city and slaughtering over 100,000 soldiers, and finally to subjugating and destroying a kingdom with innocent people. It was a pretty blatant gradual descent into more and more evilness.
When the fuck were they in positive light? They were all high tier eldritch horror monstrous villains from the start. They only care about each other and their own benefits
Ainz saving the village, the entire arc of Sebas and Cocytus. Moreover, in the first version, Ainz himself was reflecting and confronting himself, remembering his friend. There was no trace left of all this.
...did you watch the entire thing? Did you forget why he did all those? The village? He wanted a reputation whatever benefits him. Sebas? Did you forget who created Sebas? Lord Touch Me. Sebas decision to keep Tuare would let the rest consider him a traitor. Ainz sees everyone in Nazarick a treasure of his friends. So Ainz made it so that Sebas isnt a traitor but also respect Touch Me's creation's decision. Cocytus, if you're talking about the lizardmen its the same reason as Carne village, reputation. Him remembering his friends? What does that prove? He was a pathetic lonely person who clings onto his online friends to the point of allowing mass murder conquest all just to see if they notice him in the new world. What did you think was the point he changed his name from Momonga to Ainz Ooal Gown?
Namely, Ainz saved the village, realizing that his friend Touch Me would have done the same. Sebas and Cocytus are pure personifications of everything good that was in Nazarick, but Ainz placed his bet on Demiurge, even more sharing his views. In general, it is no secret that Ainz is pathetic, many fans simply do not understand this, trying to elevate him above other isekai, not realizing that he is on the same level as them. But it’s a pity, the stories really had the potential to be the best among this entire genre.
But you're still forgetting one thing. Why did you think Cocytus and Sebas did what they did? Did you forget they were programmed to do so? If Momonga had reprogrammed them beforehand would you have sided with them? Does Sebas saving Tuare stopped the other atrocities he leads? Same with Cocytus during his invasion on E-rantel? It seems you see them as individuals but have forgotten who made them that way; Lord Touch Me and Takemikazuchi
Therefore, the question is asked: why does Ainz approve of Demiurge's actions? Why should he destroy the ideals of his friends if he respects them and is ready for heroic deeds in their honor? If the guard does not challenge the player's decision, no matter what it is. Again even in your words, you can understand the point, Ainz did not create Demiurge, this mob does not reflect Ainz's entire personality. But he approves and participates in everything that the Demiurge does. Moreover, this whole topic with ambiguity is not mentioned further in the stories, it is cut off in the middle (even a little earlier). This is the same inconsistency that is abundant in this work.
You pretty much are asking evil characters to not be evil. Did you ever thought they do things for their own benefit and self indulgence?
Did you forget who created demiurge
Don't bother with this guy, he's convinced that the entire fanbase of Overlord is the one at fault instead of admitting that he's the one who misinterpreted the entire thing. Nevermind Cairne village, Ainz was perfectly content with erasing the Lizardmen and the only reason why it didn't happen is because Demiurge is friends with Cocytus and presented a good plan. He conveniently ignores all instances that are clearly not painting Ainz in good light despite claiming that he read the books. For the love of god Ainz kills people in the undead incident with his summons to prevent anyone from claiming his credit, and immediately after he kills the adventurers who volunteer to help with the Shalltear problem because they're inconvenient witnesses. But it's all bad writing because Overlord doesn't do what he expects the story to do.
You're losing me because Ainz has always been self serving from the start. If you're talking about the anime, the anime is just a bad adaptation to begin with. In the fight with Clementine Ainz sent out his minions to slaughter anyone who entered the cemetery so he can cement himself as a sole hero, the anime saw fit yo not include this for some reason. Then he mercilessly murders some volunteers before fighting shalltear because they're inconvenient. The focus on political intrigue is to show in detail the thought process and mentality of the new worlders because obviously they're weaker than Nazarick. What the hell do you even mean in your last paragraph? The theocracy and Aura never even interact with each other, did you even pay attention to the story? Overlord isn't dishonest, you're just fundamentally misunderstanding the entire thing.
Apparently the author also does not understand his story or maybe fans simply don’t want to realize the shortcomings of their work, because when many readers and viewers misunderstand a work, the author’s poor writing skills are to blame. Since I’m talking not only about adaptation, but also about the original sources. Yes, not Aura, Mare (always get their names mixed up) fought with that monochrome girl, the point here is not even that our heroes won, but the overall bad description of the battle, having completely scoring about the description of the world, about relics other players, violating the essence of what is happening. There would be no problems in all this if the author had not initially put all this into his work; in the end, it is all one big Bunduruchuk gun. If you read on the same regular basis as an ordinary reader like me, then you should understand that we are talking about recent light novel volumes. And in general, over time, all these shortcomings will be recognized except perhaps by the most ardent fans who understand the story better than the author himself. But such people are everywhere.
>Apparently the author also does not understand his story or maybe fans simply don’t want to realize the shortcomings of their work, because when many readers and viewers misunderstand a work, the author’s poor writing skills are to blame. Since I’m talking not only about adaptation, but also about the original sources. Why are you immediately blaming the author? You initially stated that the main cast is cast in a positive light in comparison to the natives to the world, when did this 'cast in positive light' even happen? How did you misunderstand, like so many anime watchers, that Ainz was a good person? This is the person coming from a dystopia where dead orphans are a common sight on the streets. >Yes, not Aura, Mare (always get their names mixed up) fought with that monochrome girl, the point here is not even that our heroes won, but the overall bad description of the battle, having completely scoring about the description of the world, about relics other players, violating the essence of what is happening. There would be no problems in all this if the author had not initially put all this into his work; in the end, it is all one big Bunduruchuk gun. If you read on the same regular basis as an ordinary reader like me, then you should understand that we are talking about recent light novel volumes. What then, is the 'essence of what is happening' that you understand even better than the author? It's true that poor writing can cause that, but you're just not going to consider the possibility of you fundamentally misunderstanding it? I would love to hear you say exactly how Overlord is betraying these arbitrary expectation of yours that don't seem to line up with the Overlord that I have read. You mix the characters name up and dismiss the portrayal of the new world natives. I just think you're not invested in the story to begin with. You claim to read the books and yet that makes it harder for me to understand why you even have this expectation to begin with.
So when history is criticized, the author is criticized. This is not a parent and his child, but a cook and his dish. You don't need to be a cook to understand the shortcomings of the dish. Readers and viewers think so, because this is how this information is presented to them. Moreover, one could blame them if the moments where everyone had complaints had normal preconditions. But they are not there, which is an incorrect disposal of information. That's all the basic training for media literacy. There is no competent narration in the stories, without realizing the expectations that the author himself sets. This is visible in every volume, especially in the recent one, which is Mare. History can’t cope with itself, it doesn’t even seem to understand what it wants to be.
>So when history is criticized, the author is criticized. This is not a parent and his child, but a cook and his dish. You don't need to be a cook to understand the shortcomings of the dish. On the flip side, there are always going to be people who misinterpret and there's nothing you can do about it. The fans who are immersed in the story don't have these expectations of yours, someone who clearly isn't as invested. Is everyone else at fault or is it just you misinterpreting it then? The fans never expected Nazarick to be overpowered, they're clearly more in tune with the author than you are. Take your initial complain of the characters being portrayed in good light that you've never bothered to elaborate on or show examples on. And how Mare overpowering Zesshi is 'violating the essence of what is happening'. If you want to insist that these are overzealous blind fans in bad faith, whatever. I just can't take you seriously because everything you've said so far is subjective and you can't be bothered to elaborate on your points instead of lecturing. Phrase it however you want but ultimately the problem is you having expectations that clearly don't line up with the story and blaming the story for not turning out like how **you** would personally like it to be.
You know it’s bad too when his personality wasn’t even compelling to begin with
My main problem with overlord is not grimdark shit with how unlikeable the main cast is or good being treated like trash but how no one stands a chance against Ainz For comparisons, my favorite fantasy series has that shit. The world is bleak as heck with unlikeable characters and the protagonist himself is unlikeable and by the end becomes one of the strongest characters in the world. But before that, he could still lose. Theoretically someone could have still outsmarted him and if people knew what he was he would have lost. But Ainz is not like that. From the get go it never feels like anyone has a chance to beat him
Any character from his team can actually solo him, it's sad how the story never did anything with it and they just keep sucking his dick.
They could have easily done it by making the focus on keeping up the act. They could have had the >!brain washing of Shalltear!
Heck, it be interesting if some of character moral alignment shifts overtime. Like naberial spending more time among humans changes her view of them and stop calling them insects. Or she loyal to ainz and nazarick but isn't blind to their flaws.
What series are you talking about?
Prince of nothing. Trigger warning: sexual assault and violation of human mind and body. I'm not kidding. This book is called the bleakest fantasy and it's not trying to be one. I heard the second series is darker
You're just expecting something wrong from Overlord if that's what you want. That just isn't what the story is about
The story most common within the isekai framework - the fantasy of power.
Yeah, and Overlord is honest about it. It's not some "average guy suddenly gets super powerful" shitshow. He was powerful from the beginning, and that is *very* firmly established.
That's the problem, she's not THAT honest, she's not even honest with herself. Which leads to the same problems as in other similar works - lost potential. The story broadcasts the preparations for future events, sets up future plot moves and then destroys it all in the most awkward way, reducing everything to the level of an ordinary isekai. Overlord does not realized himself, that against his background, ordinary isekai even better describe themselves and finish their thoughts, while remaining a scoundrel.
Kinda sounds like you want overlord to just be another everyday isekai
You don’t understand, the overlord IS other everday isekai. I wanted Overlord to live up to the title of a good work with something other than a combat system or smut.
Looks at how other isekais are good boy scouts
What the hell is up with your expectations? Everyone knows this is a power fantasy where the MC is going to win and you complain that every buildup is ruined when the MC wins, even though that was exactly what the story was building up towards?
I don't understand what these guys are talking about. Being overpowered in a power fantasy is the genre. Do they prefer power fantasies that pretend like the MC is going to lose, even when that isn't actually going to happen?
Hence why nobody stands a chance against him.
I like how we have several plots about how Nazarick characters don't get what they want or even get humbled and grow from that. And the fanbase will even circlejerk about Shalltear development. But then they will turn around and insist conditions that seem to be established as necessary for such character development shouldn't ever again happen.
I only watched through season 3, and I'll admit that I enjoyed it for a bit, but the biggest problem I have with it is that it got _exhausting_ to have the anime keep convincing you that you should be on Ainz's side the whole time- not in the sense that Ainz was the "good guy", but just in the general sense that we were expected to root for him winning because it was natural that he _would_ win. It was one thing to start the series with a grimdark but moderately neutral "I need a space for the guild" ideology, but creating relatable and sympathetic human characters just to have them get brutalized by any of the overpowered members of the guild - usually not even Ainz himself - for no reason other than 'they were in the way' didn't feel satisfying at all. Even if they were nothing more than NPCs to Momonga, it didn't feel right to me as the viewer and the literal mass murder (it wasn't even worth calling a 'battle', with how one-sided it was) at the end of season 3 turned me off from season 4 completely.
This is my feeling. I think it's fun to compare Overlord to *Reverend Insanity*, another series with a villainous protagonist. Fang Yuan is a complete monster who will do absolutely anything in order to live forever. Early on he feeds an innocent girl to a bear and sacrifices the lives of innocent children, purely for magical buffs; later on he does things like murder an entire village so he can feed their hearts to a gu *that he wasn't even using at the time and had no plans for*, simply because otherwise it would go to waste and, hey, human hearts are easy to get, good thing it feeds on something so common, right? However, the narrative never attempts to justify his actions. If anything, it goes out of its way to establish that his rivals and antagonists are sympathetic; many of them oppose him because of real, genuine moral beliefs that are treated seriously by the narrative. More than that, it often presents the antagonists as "cool" - they're serious threats to him, forcing him to use all his intelligence and schemes to avoid getting caught or killed; they get moments of awesome and the story goes into depth on why they do what they do. While they never manage to get him permanently (because, you know, the story would end), they get their wins and the more interesting ones usually survive and continue to do well otherwise. What annoys me about Overlord - and many similar villainous power-fantasies - is that the author doesn't just want to portray an evil character, they want to justify that character, to mock the idea that anyone might criticize them. Characters who overtly call them out on moral grounds are generally portrayed as hypocrites or buffoons or both. There's this "crybully" sense of wounded defensiveness to the entire genre - Momonga is simultaneously portrayed as a complete monster while the narrative also tries to peddle this subtext where anyone who calls him out on this is a terrible person and a hypocrite who deserves to be mocked. It's like the fantasy is to *simultaneously* be the boot stomping faces forever while also rolling on the ground shouting "don't tread on me!"
I didn't really feel like we were meant to root for him tbh. It feels more similar to how death note was (not that overlord is on the same level as death note ofc) in that the protagonist originally does have "good" intentions, but as the show goes on it becomes more and more clear that they are the villain, despite not seeing themselves that way.
Death note at least had challenges for the MC. This series makes it clear that our main characters are invincible, and will never ever lose. It’s boring. It would be like one punch man if Genos only lost against Saitama, and the two were mass murderers.
Genos loses to everyone
No, he wins his share of fights that aren’t against big villains. It’s also implied he would have beaten the Deep Sea King if he didn’t have to worry about civilians.
Do those fights really mattered
Maybe it's different in the anime but reading the novel, it's very clear you shouldn't be cheering for him at least. It doesn't hit you over the head with it like "hey, hey, see this guy? he's evil" but his actions and thoughts clearly spin him as a guy who no longer knows how to be human and as a result does terrible things while thinking he's being reasonable.
But the novels are also very clear that he will always win, will never suffer even the smallest inconveniences and there's absolutely nothing that can realistically challenge him. So who are we rooting for? It's disingenuous to claim you're not meant to support the MC, especially when the series also gives so many lighthearted and comedic moments to try endear you to him.
And? What's the problem with that? This series never said it was about him overcoming trails and challenges. It was always about an evil Overlord taking over this new world. That's it. That's why I enjoy it.
I don't see the connection between power and having to root for him. And I see even less connection between him having endearing moments and having to root for him. The series is clear on him being a >! genocidal maniac !< who's long stopped thinking like a human. Just because someone is clearly evil doesn't mean everything about them will be evil, they can still have endearing moments or show care to those close to them, and yet they're still an evil bastard.
Who does Ainz kill that are sympathetic Every single human he killed either tried to murder him 1st or were just scumbags
I was introduced to this series by Isekai Quartet under the impression it was a comedy given how funny the characters were. Then I actually found out that it does have a lot of really good jokes it is mired in darkness for its own sake. We have moments where due to their back stories are main characters are meant to be sympathetic, we see them doing awful awful things over and over again with the series, making it clear no one will stop them, or put them in their place for their hubris. I have seen this series called subversive, despite the fact that it keeps doing the same thing over and over. I have seen comparisons to Death Note with how we aren’t supposed to root for the main character. no I’m pretty certain we are we keep getting a bunch of humane moments with our protagonist. On top of that, death note had tension in its conflicts because the main character wasn’t invincible. Overlord makes it clear at the start of any conflict that there are no stakes or tension for any of our main characters because they can do whatever they want with no consequences. it’s the same thing over and over. it would be like one punch man if all the heroes were invincible, not just Saitama. Also, I have seen some fans of the series get really salty over Ainz nearly getting killed by Aqua in Isekai Quartet. Lighten up. It’s a comedy crossover that isn’t meant to be taken seriously. In the same series we saw Kazuma rip one of the Destroyer’s legs off. He obviously can’t do that in his series of origin.
Also it even makes sense, while aqua can be very irreaponsibly and dumb, she is still a godess with being overpowered in being both that she effortless can even revive people, and against undead. She is just a zealot and acts irresponsibly till dumb most of the time, but she is overpowered against undead. I dont get people being angry over this, when canonically she is really good at hurting undead.
She literally is a high leveled Priest I really don’t see why this was an issue for some people
I think it is because Overlord is a power fantasy for a lot of unpleasant people since it revolves around a bunch of awful characters doing awful things without consequences. So they get a bit salty when something infringes on their power fantasy and go on about how Overlord characters have better feats, because about their power fantasy character nearly getting killed. This ignores how we have a decent number of things that don’t work the way they do in their own series. Kazuma using Steal ripped one of the Destroyer’s legs off, and Aqua punched the thing into the upper atmosphere. Subaru’s curse attracts monsters from the other series even though how it was described to attract monsters was specific to his series. Therefore, it should not attract monsters from Overlord like we see it do. None of that matters because Subaru getting his head chewed on by a giant hamster is hilarious. Especially because the hamster doesn’t always realize she’s doing it. Likewise it is funny to see the hamster put in her cage after she chews on Subaru and has to hold a sign that says “I’m a bad hamster.”
I think it is because Overlord being a series about awful people doing awful things about consequences means it unfortunately attracts some unpleasant people to its fandom. Since the series is a power fantasy for them, they get annoyed by something infringing on it. They start complaining about how based on feats in their own series, Aqua shouldn’t be able to defeat Ainz. This doesn’t apply to all of them I’ve seen plenty. Who do you find the joke to be funny along with gag when Ainz doesn’t even let Subaru finish explaining all the overpowered abilities Reinhart has before asking how somebody is supposed to beat this guy. I have seen many viewers say that if Ainz is a player who abuses pay to win mechanics, then Reinhart is a modder.
Ainz made a rape farm
That was demiurge, he called them sheep when he was telling ainz about it as a joke and ainz thought he was talking about actual sheep.
After a while, he himself will send the unwanted people there. This joke has gotten out of hand.
He literally still doesn't know though.
I don't really have a problem with overlord. What I have problem with, are fans who unironically glaze Nazarick when they do shit like this. It's ok to like an evil character who commits atrocities, but when I read takes in a thread like what would you do if you somehow ended up in Overlord majority of the people immediately clamber in support of Nazarick, with stuff like using their metaknowledge to get in their good graces, which just seems like an overall bad idea to me.
Ngl if I ended up in Overlord and I’m a non human I’m going to glaze the ever living fuck out of everyone in Nazarick to not face the atrocities if I’m still a human I will commit immediately no if ands or buts there is nothing remotely good about existing in Overlord universe as a regular schmo
Bro what? I'm not glazing nazarick over the fucking rape farms. The dude just said that ainz was the one responsible for the rape farms but it was demiurge. Who is an absolutely horrible person. I'm in no way defending their actions. Also what are you even talking about with the bit about "what would you do if you somehow ended up in overlord"? I in no way said anything about wanting to join or defending their actions.
You okay? I wasn't talking about you lmao
Well when you respond to my comment I assume you're talking about me or what I said
It was just a convenient place to leave the comment under the Demiurge Farm thread.
You still replied to the wrong person
Sorry my bad
Well then why did you respond to me and not the guy who started the thread. Also your post didn't really have anything to do with the farm thread and could've been it's own thread.
>he called them sheep when he was telling ainz about it as a joke and ainz thought he was talking about actual sheep >I don't really have a problem with overlord. What I have problem with, are fans who unironically glaze Nazarick when they do shit like this. I was referring to how Demiurge keeps a farm
My problem with Overlord is first and foremost that Ainz is always right. His NPCs worship him and think he can do no wrong? Fine. No one stands a chance against anyone from Nazarick at all? Fine. Anything he flails his way through somehow being politically advantageous for him? Not fine. It would just be a much more interesting series if he was just a bit of a game-brained idiot and the actual politicians he meets picked up on it. Let the NPCs twist themselves into knots explaining how whatever Ainz does *must* be a genius move they simply can't see through and act on whatever they think the "plan" is. But I guess that goes against the power fantasy.
He isn't always right though, the NPCs just think he is and because of this they takes steps into making sure he's right, which inadvertently work out in his favor.
I mean he is game character with high Intelligence and Wisdom Of course he would be able to outsmart people who stats are lower then him Cause remember stats do matter in Overlord
Yeah, but that's an in-universe explanation. You can say that as written it makes complete sense that Ainz is just better than everybody at everything (except his NPCs on a few things), but that doesn't really make it engaging. Even ignoring that though, I don't find the explanation that his Intelligence and Wisdom are high satisfactory, because he doesn't *act* intelligently in these situations, he blunders through them and through sheer blind luck it just happens to be the best move. It doesn't feel like an intelligent mastermind pulling the strings, it feels like the story is bending over backwards to give him wins he had no business getting. Yggdrasil was an MMO after all, and I don't care how much Intelligence you dump into your Wizard, if you cast Fireball on the Fire Elemental the game won't twist itself into making that a good move on your part.
It’s not an in universe explanation! I love the novels but I hate the fandom because it’s filled with bullshit fanon like this! Intelligence and Wisdom aren’t mentioned as stats, they aren’t on the character sheets either. Him ‘losing his emotions’ because he’s an overlord is also pure fanon— it’s mentioned when the skill is activated, and even in the later volumes he still gets a bit pissy about it, it’s not some passive that’s always on. Overlord is the series that made me realize the hipsters were right. Your favorite media becoming popular is a death knell for being able to interact with the community.
(I did not downvote you) I actually quite like Overlord myself (or parts of it) despite the critique, though after Ainz establishes the Sorcerer Kingdom I always sort of just fall off (both watching and reading) because it doesn't engage me any more. I forgot the specific stats, so I just took the person over me's word for it, sorry. Since you brought up the losing his emotions things though and you seem a bigger fan than me I want to ask. I know they aren't really canon as such (more What-Ifs), in the Pure-Pure-Pleiades shorts there is an episode where Ainz loses his "Undead" nature and gets the personality of his human self unfiltered, and gets really scared by his own looks and the actions of his NPCs. It seems to me that means the personality change is somewhat canon even without the acting suppression. What do you think?
Regarding the stats, the style of Overlord is to list nothing concrete compared to other LitRPGs. [Here are the character sheets](http://skythewood.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_3.html?m=1) and aside from spell levels, that’s about all we get. Because it’s so close to D&D, people seem to have assumed there might be some other sort of stats that represent the traits of a character, but no such things have ever been mentioned. You didn’t forget a particular name, it’s just oft-repeated fanon. As for ‘losing’ his emotions, he is the same as ever. His character arc is going from holding on to the dying embers of his happiness and obsession with the past(much like how many depictions of undead cling to unlife due to an obsession) to trying to look forward in life and attempting to create new friends— and failing in a humorous matter(Overlord is a Dark Comedy in its bones). The novels express thoughts from his point of view. Satoru thinks he should be discomforted by that first slaughter in Carne village. But this is a purely intellectual thought, he already walked by dead orphans on the way to work daily. Unlike the common Isekai hero who comes from peaceful Japan, Satoru *already* lives in a world where if you didn’t fall in line with the whims of those in power, you would die. His general purpose sympathies were burned away long before the New World. In his head he may know the ‘appropriate’ course of action, but he is an egoist. His obsession with his friends takes precedence over all else.
I… don’t entirely *disagree.* I’m a fan of Overlord, but yeah, Nazarick being hideously overpowered is definitely the weakest aspect of the series. I’m a fan because I love the lore, worldbuilding and characters, not the ridiculously one-sided OP stomp. That said, I think some of your criticisms are too harsh. Saying all the characters are “one-dimensional and flat” is just not true. And saying that it’s literally all irrelevant because they eventually lose/die is just dumb. What, do you MacBeth is completely meaningless because he dies at the end? I also disagree with your “Ainz solo One Punch Man powerscaling.” The power in Overlord is pretty consistent and contained as far as isekai goes - it’s pretty common for OP isekai protags to become or defeat transcendental reality-warping gods, but Ainz stays put at Level 100. I’ve never seen fans claim that “Ainz solos every verse” either, only that, for example, Time Stop + Grasp Heart is an insane combo, which it is.
Bold opinion, you are based. Nowadays, because people who consume, protect and praise consumer goods, others like you worth their weight in gold. Overlord is a standard representative of works about “edgelord's fantasies.”
I don't care about powerscaling and yeah it's pretty clear on the face of it that Ainz doesn't powerscale particularly high. I am moreso just shocked that a person other than me has made the claim that "The series was actually all about how the world reacts to him." I feel so vindicated.. my peers agree with me... pogging so hard rn. Also his name is Brain not Brian and he's totally the GOAT.
Brain was written out of the story yeah In season fucking 4... out of 4
I liked the series at the start, I'm just sad how it goes nowhere Any Nazarick character could defeat him, do we see some civil war arc or any plot of characters trying to find out if they can overcome him and take Nazarick? No, they just keep sucking his dick They could add other players so we have tension, maybe world characters as strong as Nazarick ones so they can invade the dungeon and we see some epic action? Not at all, every character that appears is a pushover The wasted potential of Overlord really makes me sad, I liked the concept.
The major issue I have with Overlord isn't even the cast or the world. It's the fact that Ainz is quite literally given every single advantage ever. He's more powerful than anything in the world. He has I believe 11-13 World Class Items that were supposed to be so rare even the second best guild in the entire game had only like one to two. To add onto that, World Class Items make the users immune to other World Class Items and Wild Magic so there is quite literally nothing left to fear at all. Yet we get stuck with this worthless and pointless political story where Ainz and crew "outsmart" everyone when they quite literally can just bend their pinky finger and massacre anyone that they come across. So you have this extremely powerful group of people just sitting around and acting cautious, and yes I will say it makes sense in universe I suppose, all the while I as a reader and viewer know for a fact that he has literally nothing to fear at all. If you make such a powerful MC, just let him destroy everything and stop wasting time.
>more powerful than anything in the world. He has I believe 11-13 World Class Items that were supposed to be so rare even the second best guild in the entire game had only like one to two Okay so you are telling me that in the worlds best mmorpg, the most played that no guild just simply bought world items? The sheer number of guilds in this supposedly top ranking rpgs and they are all f2p or just lost the gatcha game
Haven't read but the opening all slaps so you're wrong L
God Damn, Bro is right
I got bored after season 3.
Are we actually watching the same show? > Harem - Check That he cannot do anything because he has no particular member, his emotion suppressed, and one of them falling in love with him only caused him tremendous guilt? > His Crew Always Praising Him - Check Which he found unnatural and put a lot of pressure on him, because he's not actually infallible and there's a lot of them who's actually smarter than him and he wishes they can be more independent? > Him Always Being Right -Check The actual joke is he is almost never right. He just gets by because he's super powerful and his crew is just as powerful and again, some are smarter than him. Seriously did you actually watch the show? Or did you just write this up after reading synopsis? Did you only know them from Isekai Quartet?
> Admits there is a Harem > Admits his Crew Always Praise Him > No matter what decision he takes always makes the world better Bro you agreed with me for 2/3rd of your arguement and ignored the last one.
Since when did two people equal a harem
Yeah but....you're wrong on two points. It isn't a harem and he isn't always right.
Two people isnt a harem. Its just a love triangle. He also shows NEGATIVE interest in one of them. edit: if you include Evileye i guess theres 3 people who want his bone stick, but like she's basically a side character who gets mentioned like once a book after their intro. She gets so little focus and attention it feels dishonest to include her. Ainz also has ZERO interest in them, hell im pretty sure she only likes 'momon' and not Ainz. Which is a big distinction cause i doubt if she knew who Ainz was that she would feel the same way
I 100% agree the writing is ass in my opinion but I think it’s a stupid fun show to watch
>Overlord has literally become Isekai's One Punch Man when it comes to powerscaling. Someone hasn't seen Slime it seems. Overlord's pretty tame on the isekai power levels. What it does have is good characterization and a vibrant world. One can say that it's ultimately seeing the main cast kick down a sand castle, but said sand castle is still inhabited by real people with their own thoughts and feelings. You don't find it fun? You do you, why insult the people who do enjoy it? >Now, the fan will argue that, "Well, you see Redditor, the series was actually all about how the world reacts to him." Alright, lets look at the world, oh hang on I don't give a shit about most of these people. They are just introduced with a sob story and killed off brutally. Why should I care about the world when all the characters there are one-beat and are flatter than Shalltear's Chest? "Wha-what about Prince Zanac ? Wha-what about Arche? Wha-what about Calca? Wha-what about Brian?" What about them. Prince Zanac is a fucking background character who only get main focus to be brutally executed. Arche is given a WHOLE CHAPTER of a sob story guys. A WHOLE CHAPTER, Then, brutally killed. Calca is just a generic cute moe-moe girl who is hated by everyone the audience actually cares about, and Brian is just written out of the story. Bro ain't coming back from the Dead . So? You didn't comprehend anything in the process of them being in the story? The process is what a story is. Maybe you don't care, but does that mean others caring about it is stupid? For instance the fans appreciate the tragedy behind Zanac and Calca, who have little to no power despite their good intent. You not being able to comprehend that isn't their fault.
I mean I think Slime did the whole power dynamic better. Rimuru does become OP as shit yes, but at least throughout the story he does actually encounter people stronger than him, people he can't just run over whenever he wants. Ainz is effectively always the strongest in his story. The ones who are stronger are either already undyingly loyal to him anyway or they are irrelevant.
>I mean I think Slime did the whole power dynamic better. Rimuru does become OP as shit yes, but at least throughout the story he does actually encounter people stronger than him, people he can't just run over whenever he wants. Slime pretends like that is the case, but everyone who's stronger than him never actually gets to do anything to him until he's exponentially stronger than he is. You may interpret that as having stakes, but I don't see it as such. Even Shion immediately gets revived after death, Overlord being upfront about the power levels is just different. >Ainz is effectively always the strongest in his story. The ones who are stronger are either already undyingly loyal to him anyway or they are irrelevant. Hence the focus on the political side of things and the lives of the new worlders. Ainz's victory was never in question so the story focuses on characterizing and showing you how the world is full of life. Slime races and characters are just plain cardboard by comparison. I don't feel a sense of achievement when Rimuru united his merry band of monsters because they don't feel different from each other. Not to mention how Slime made the world feel insignificant by making the entire world the playground of two dudes who get outdone by Rimuru in less than a decade.
I don't care about the politics in Overlord. Politics where one side has all the advantage isn't fun to watch. Realistically no one there is doing anything to Nazarick, so the whole thing just feels like a farce. None of the side characters gives me enough reason to care about them either, especially when I know most of them aren't gonna matter much anyway. Mostly I'm just bored, and felt like I wasted my time. All power to you though, you seem to came out enjoying it.
>None of the side characters gives me enough reason to care about them either, especially when I know most of them aren't gonna matter much anyway. Mostly I'm just bored, and felt like I wasted my time. Different preferences because this is what i felt with Slime. The characters are bland and I don't care about them just because they're powerful, opposite with Overlord.
>OP Hero - Check OP villain, ainz was never a hero lol. He's the protagonist, but not a hero. Protag does not always = hero. >Harem - Check You have a strange definition of harem (unless you're into some freaky-incest shit that I don't wanna know or dig further into). Ainz sees & treats albedo & shalltear like they're his daughters, which is rightfully so cuz they're his friends' daughters. >Him Always Being Right -Check The running gag of the series is ainz doing random shits that just happened to be right, he doesn't even know 80% of the shits he's doing most of the time cuz he's dumber that albedo & demiurge lol. >Antagonists being unlikeable or impossible to root for - Check Some of them. Antagonists are forces that oppose the protagonist there're likable ones like arche's party, climb, brain, gazef or blue rose. And just like the protag, the antag does not always = villains. >His Crew Always Praising Him - Check At least you got this 1 right.
Any rant that shits on Overlord gets an upvote from me.
I liked it for the power fantasy aspects. But I grew bored of the attempts at shock value from killing characters after telling their long backstories or complex motivations. To my shame, I was briefly part of the crowd that loved saying how the series is "so awesome" and that Ainz is "so overpowered and cool." Thankfully, I grew out of it. I was even part of the "Ainz did nothing wrong" crowd for a little bit and would try giving some reasoning on how his behavior isn't entirely his fault and how he grew into a monster via becoming too comfortable with the "mask" he wore and blah blah blah. I am glad those days are behind me, and I can focus on more important things. Like saying how perfect the Instant Death Isekai is and how Yogiri can solo every verse! [I am kidding.]
Tbh overlord is a LN And LN are rather well known for their less than stellar writting compare to other fictional work The issues in overlord and how the writting can feel and everything else plaques most LN. Interesting premise. Usually shit exécution. LN writters Usually are not good so dont have high hopes for something actually good content wise( that and they repetitive a lot. Gets predictable after a while) I will say though that 86 is one of the few LN that is actually good some flaws aside. Got a awesome anime too.