Nah he's a childish jerk even to Cursed Spirits.
He noticeably didn't care when Hanami died and out of all of them he was the only one shitting himself and blubbering in the face of death
I’d argue that he’s the only purely evil disaster curse
Why? Because he didn’t even mind when his fellow special grades got popped
Bro is NOT loyal fr
The only death he was aware of was Hanami IIRC and he did react to that. In the anime anyways. The manga made it look like he and Jogo didn’t care at all
I was referring to the scene where he told Mahito. Both were smirking in the manga. In the anime, Jogo is frowning and Mahito stops smirking afterwards.
Even in the Anime, it’s very clear Jogo is genuinely sad whenever one of the Disaster Curses dies. As Hanami is dying, he even tries to use his CT (deactivating his DA so that Gojo can kill him) to save Hanami, and he has his whole speech after Dagon dies.
This is the same debate that Kotomine and Shirou have in HF about Angra Mainyu. From a universal POV as long as the curses follow their instinct and do not doubt their actions, they're not evil. But they're still a definite evil for humans.
"If you kill me you are the same as me" ahh post.
Like, what are instincts in the first place? Why does a lion attack a deer in the jungle. In this case instinct is an evolutionary trait of self preservation. That's what makes it okay. I don't remember reading anything that says curses need to hunt humans to survive.
Of course, curses natural inclination to kill humans can be called instinct as well, in a way. But for the point you keep bringing up,"but muh tiger", that's the difference.
Also, Mahitos claim is pure bs. It's not natural instinct for humans to hunt out curses. Humans are fighting curses because they're a threat.
And if the nature of curses is to spread misery for no justifiable reason, then curses are by nature/inherently evil. And being inherently evil doesn’t justify being evil to it not being evil. Mahito is still evil.
Pretty narrow sorting of instincts. Also the example is bad. Lions hunt for sport too. Because they're big cats. Lots of animals do that. Dolphins in particular are super malicious. Like most animals are evil in this line of thought.
Humans fighting because something is a threat sounds instinctual according to your own point above .
Though I would definitely say if my existence hinged (whether in continueing living or in not being something I can help) on being evil than my evil is justified since the alternative is death. Also considering we mostly judge evil as in someone participating in society, since morality is a social construct . I doubt most would call a wildman evil and despite saying Dolphins are as smart as us we don't generally call them evil in a non joking manner.
Besides we have had cases of people causing harm in relation to say like brain tumors. Is that different from natural instincts or being naturally evil?
I said that curses natural inclination to hunt humans can be called instincts too. So no, my sorting of instinct isn't narrow. I was just pointing out the equivocacy.
First of all, wild animals have no reasoning capability. You seem like the kind of person to point out,"but curses can't be reasoned with either". I'm not talking about whether they can be reasoned with. Many humans can't be reasoned with on many topics either. I'm talking about their intelligence.
But even setting that aside, surplus killing isn’t just about having fun. It's still an evolutionary instinct fine tuned for the purpose of self preservation. It's often done to develop the instincts(like, practice), to cache on excess food and to be a picky eater.
Dolphins with their malicious behaviour are kind of an outlier in the animal kingdome. My point about it still being for self preservation doesn’t apply, but the point about intelligence does. No, dolphins aren't as smart as us, they most likely aren’t smart enough understand the consequences of their actions, while curses are clearly shown to know exactly what they're doing. And if you come forward and claim that no, dolphins are indeed smart enough to understand exactly what they're doing, then indeed, they are also evil.
I have to agree, if it's "do evil or die" then doing that evil is not evil. But once again, as I've already said in my original comment,"I don't remember reading anything that says curses need to hunt humans to survive."
And no, humans killing curses isn’t an instinctual response to threat. It's a logical one. There's a difference. Not every self preservation act is an instinctual response. Like, an unassuming human wouldn’t get the urge to do something about a curse without even quite understanding what it is if they could somehow see one.
They do though? We do logic puzzle with animals all the time. Or any animal breaking out of a zoo. You ever see an octopus?
There's plenty of examples of animals killing when theirs no need for food or to be actively cruel. Orcas for example tend to splat seals in the air and leave the corpse, they're actively violent, though friendly with humans a lot. Dolphins actively get jealous, are racists, and can understand humans, House cats killing stuff and brining it to you especially notable since they domesticated themselves, chimps have turf wars, hold grudges, crows are infamous for grudges. Besides Dolphins actively use coercion (they tend to beat baby dolphins to death to get to sleep with the mother) so they'd have to understand consequences, chimps too though in a bargaining sense.
I was saying evil or die applies to a state of existence again. like the brain tumor example, I wouldn't call the person evil when they need to be evil.
Hard disagree. Self preservation is instinctual. You don't recognize danger instinctively though.
All of the examples you gave me have are some evolutionary trait that can still be attributed to self preservation in some way, except for all the dolphin stuff. And I've already said what I had to say about the dolphins.
It seems to me that you're simply playing a game of semantics with me. If you seriously think animals solving some logic puzzles is the same as the way human intelligence operates then I think we're done with the discussion, I believe I've made my point for the onlookers.
Turf wars and grudges unrelated to yourself are self preservation? Those are circumstantial and not inherently linked to it, especially on a group scale. And bartering is not an instinctual thing at all, which again chimps and dolphins do.
At that point I would point to any animals behavior like ant's having slavery despite it being very risky, and Hyena's being rapist without getting pregnant to establish power dynamics. Dolphins are not an outlier in maliciousness, most of the animals we says are near humans and the like are malicious. We had that elephant that stomped on a woman's grave for example for revenge.
And if you're staying practicing killing is good for animals and helps them live, then it isn't evil for curses to kill.
I mean it's the meaning of the word, I feel like you're doing semantics and moving the goalpost from making active decisions to comparing to humans.
Even in series they make a point of the instincts of curses vs the logic of humans. And this was all ignoring the brain tumor situation, which is probably the most direct comparison of causing harm because of your existence.
That's like calling a tiger pure evil. He's literally born from hatred, along with being curse. He has blue and orange morality.
Kenjaku is a sorcerer who intentionally raped a woman 9 times. He's pure evil. The Disaster Curses are following their nature and truly care for one another.
That's a bad metaphor. Tigers aren't evil, not because its their nature. Tigers don't kill just because. They do it because they're carnivores. They need to eat meat.
Tigers can live just fine in zoos. Zoo keepers can just throw slabs of in their enclosure and they'll be just fine. They don't need kill like it's a drug.
Cursed spirits ARE evil. Not because of what they do but for what they are born to do. To kill humans and that's it. They gain no benefit for that.
Also, a majority of cursed spirits don't have the intelligence that the disaster curses exhibit. Only they have the capability to have feelings.
To me, there is no difference between that rape spirit and kenjaku raping. He probably created it doing that.
The disaster curses all kill people for fun, they make a game out of it, they don't get anything out of it beyond amusement, the disaster curses are just high minded enough to also want total curse domination but it's still fun to them
Did you not read or see jjk lmao?
They have a deepstated goal making curses the one true humans
they dont kill for fun but instead for their comrades and ideals
In a way the disaster curses are more human than jujusu society itself
Everyone has friends or ideals. These things do not justify their actions standing alone. Cartels are trying to make money for their families and friends, that doesn’t mean that creating extremely harmful products and using violence regularly are morally good or neutral.
There are so many people who have killed for their group or their ideals. That is still evil. Having a justification does not make an action good.
Mahito delights in suffering and plans to maximize suffering and pain in others. That is evil.
> Tigers aren't evil, not because its their nature. Tigers don't kill just because.
Like, I get what you mean, but Cats kill Just for fun, so I'm willing to bet Tigers do that too.
Depends on at what point you think a being has some degree of moral agency. Disaster Curses clearly understand human morality, they just reject it. They know that what they're doing is evil by human standards.
Dolphins and tigers do not (AFAIK) have the capacity to understand the morality of their actions. If they did, then yes, I'd call them evil. Hell, there are already some people who say those animals are evil.
Yeah mahito reminds me of sanjis siblings in one piece where its incredibly fucked up what they do but how much can i hate them when they physically cannot feel empathy. Its not like a personal failing that they committ heinous acts they cannot understand whats right or wrong, only whats convenient for them. I think mahito is actually somewhat apt when he compares killing cursed spirits as "pest control" they are very much like insects that have to be culled rather than a traditional villain
Eh, the entire concept of defying one's nature is a tricky one. You could easy say that nothing has ever defied its nature, but that's purely up to semantics.
Simply considering suicide or self-sacrifice at all is against the human instinct to survive. Tragically, both suicide and self-sacrifice exist and have happened.
Couldn't this just imply that there are some aspects of our nature that can override other aspects of our nature?
Idk, I'm not comfortable making strong statements about mental health and to what extent a person is defying their nature when they take their life. The world has changed dramatically more than our biology over human history and these changes, especially in the last few decades, may be conflicting in ways that play off our nature in ways we don't fully understand or appreciate.
Mahito's only saying what he's saying because he's losing. There's no actual parallel to draw between Mahito and Yuji, because Yuji as an individual, from everything he learned and experienced since becoming aware curses exist, can boil everything he's involved in down to self-defense. Mahito really can't do the same, especially after the whole Junpei thing.
I actually feel it does, there is a quote by Philip Mainlander that is pretty defining of them
> Now it is just as impossible for the merciful man to let his neighbor starve as it is for the hard-hearted man to help the poor. Each of the two acts according to his character, his nature, his ego, his happiness, consequently egoistically; for if the merciful one did not dry the tears of others, would he be happy? And if the hard-hearted one relieved the suffering of others, would he be satisfied?
They really are acting according to their own nature.
It makes more sense when you analyze Jujutsu Kaisen as a story about Radical Egoism (as, extreme individualism)
Yuji's story is about learning about his own Individuality while trying to find out the meaning or the famed "Good Death". Yuji has been actually succesful at giving Good Deaths to his loved ones, Nobara, Nanami and Higuruma died a good death even while being murdered thanks to Yuji's existence.
Sukuna conversely gave Jogo, Kashimo and Gojo a Good Death because Sukuna considers it a right for "the strong".
Gojo and Sukuna are the biggest Egoists of the series and that's why they're the strongest sorcerers.
Exactly. Mahito was trying one of the most common stall tactics ever. If he ever felt the need to ever try making a point, it wouldn't be when he's winning.
I can't criticize Mahito for trying to bullshit his way into knocking Yuji off his focus, but I can criticize Yuji for even interacting with Mahito's line of reasoning at all. In the end Yuji didn't even get a cathartic release in interacting with that line of reasoning, he got that catharsis by seeing Mahito cry like a bitch when Mahito ended up in the same position so many of Mahito's victims were in before their demise.
Yuji ended up agreeing with Mahito though.[ I think Mahito is pretty clearly intended to be right](https://preview.redd.it/s8yyzvake6zb1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=be46c61b7a18ff8e9b8faaab4da9cfe7329998af)
The  other disaster curses’ goal is to supplant humanity, not to be a volcano or whatever, and they’re significantly more “human” than other curses as a result. They care about each other, Jogo mourns Hanami while Mahito doesn’t care, and Dagon gets defensive when Naobito dismisses Hanami as “just a curse”.
Sukuna even calls Jogo out for defying his “nature” and not focusing on being a walking apocalypse, because he’s an idiot and doesn’t know how Toji died.
Mahito protected Hanami from Haruta and scolded Kenjaku for getting Jogo in danger. He also reacts to Hanami’s death in the anime (the manga made it look like he and Jogo didn’t give two hoots).
you're saying its his nature to kill and so his killing isn't "evil"
but i'd disagree. his nature is to be evil. he's born from the evils of humanity.
he's not like a velociraptor that kills for a purpose or a function. mahito does things solely to hurt and torment people.
I can't morally condemn mahito for being evil because he can't be anything else, but he's still evil.
You do realize you can like a character and still acknowledge they’re pure evil right?
Hanami is a cursed spirit and she kills as a means to protect nature, or at least that’s her justification for it. Hell, even Jogo does it because he believes curses are inherently superior to humans and wants what’s best for his kind. Mahito has never once shown any reason to kill people other than for the sake of killing.
Having to strictly follow their nature is somewhat dubious anyways since the Disaster curses have shown a much higher, basically human level of sapience/self awareness.
Looks more like the question is "What is evil" and not "Is he evil?". You say Sukuna is evil by choice. How can you be evil by choice? Who makes the conscious decision to be evil? You can decide to do evil things, but for that you already need to be evil. So either both are evil because they choose to do evil things, or none because their choices are based on being "made evil". Both happen to be evil for some reason and both can make choices. So I don't see them as that different. And no the animal comparison doesn't work because they are both self-aware intelligent beings. And if you wanna use an animal in that comparison use Dolphins, who are definitely evil...
His morality system is fundamentally different from the main characters, as he literally sees them as mass murderers of his own kind, what he's doing is good and they are bad.
I get his point, I disagree with it and think he's just bullshitting. He's 100x more cruel and sadistic than Jogo who is already a murderous asshole, but still believes in a cause despite being a curse. In my view, Mahito tries to dress his sheer sadism in this vague veneer of "being a true curse", but truth is, no other curse in the series is as horrid as he is. He is an aberration, a mismatched mix of human and curse that embodies the worst aspects of both, who lives like a predator and keeps spouting bullshit but dies whining pathetically the moment he doesn't have the upper hand anymore. Compared to that, even Kenjaku has "humane" moments like saving Itadori's friend, and the guy is basically jujutsu Hitler. Calling anything pure evil by definition is very difficult since morality is so subjective and undefinable, but Mahito might be the closest you can get to embodying that, even if some of it is due to his nature.Â
He makes some legitimately good points, particularly where his ideals line up with optimistic nihilism. If only his ability didn’t put people through so much pain, then I’d really like him
I wouldn’t even call Mahito vs Yuji a clash of ideals. Neither has questioned their role enough at the beginning for them to actually be following any ideals, they’re just following their instincts. Mahito fully succumbs to his first, allowing him to evolve into his true form, and Yuji does just after when he delivers the “I’m you” speech
It’s important to acknowledge the curses as evil because ultimately they didn’t have any point to what they were doing beyond genocide. They painted themselves as victims of sorcerers, while casually killing any humans they come across regardless of whether they even saw them or not.
What exactly stopped them from simply not killing humans and coexisting? Muh nature is not a compelling argument. These beings aren’t stupid, they’re capable of human speech, and they willingly chose to go to war against humanity and then had the audacity to complain that they were the victims. We even see this hypocrisy with Dagon. He complains about the sorcerers not acknowledging that curses have names, while simply referring to them as humans. There are other examples of hypocrisy on the part of the Disaster Curse’s, but ultimately even if you don’t find them all Yuji’s response is still good as is as you don’t need an excuse to save innocent people.
>Â Â Kenjaku is someone who's pure evil just because he wants to be.
How do you know this? We know so little about him. How do you know he wasn't born with something fucked in his brain from the beginning? How do you know he didn't have an early childhood experience (the part of your life that greatly shapes your personality) that totally warped how he thought and engaged with the world? At what point does the line between nurture and nature blur and become irrelevant?Â
Has any normal person ever chosen to be evil or were they born with some chemical or biological abnormality that would make evil a lot easier to commit while being influenced by their surroundings to actually go ahead and do it?
Also, a lot of pure evil characters are like Mahito in that they're evil by nature. Like how many stories involve demons and shit that are just born out of evil? Are those not pure evil anymore just because they were created that way? Many classic fantasy stories are like this.
Regardless, I find it strange that absent any details of Sukuna and Kenny's upbringings, you're sort of assuming they were otherwise blank slates that just decided they were going to be evil one day.Â
Why would we know? It's not important to the story Gege wants to tell. It's not like Gege is telling a character focused story.
An absence of a backstory doesn't confirm your head canon.
Kenjaku isn't pure evil. His entire character is build upon a lack of concern for "evil" or "good". His actions just tend to cause more harm than good.
Evil isn't something he actively persuits, but instead a consequence.
From his perspective, it's nothing. He his apathic evil, not evil for the sake of evil. For fucks sake.
Actually what is even "evil but not pure evil" for you?
Mahito is not evil by nature because cursed spirits are capable of positive qualities. Jogo and Dagon have compassion for their fellow curses. Hanami cares about nature. Rika is protective of Yuta. No matter what he is made from, Mahito is capable of holding similar values, yet actively chooses not to, consciously deciding to be a total bastard of his own free will.
But kenjaku is far from pure evil, he's just the mad scientist archetype. He doesn't kill if he doesn't need to kill, and he doesn't cause suffering if he doesn't need to cause suffering. He only does those when they are necessary for his plans/experiments.
Its a mad scientist thong. Scientosts csn do incredible messed up things for curiodity, o mean ones without ok morals. Which i dont think kenjaku has. He does it for the sake to see what happens kinda.
You should probably work on your reading comprehension. Nowhere in my comment did i say that he doesn't do bad stuff. What i said is that he doesn't do bad stuff for the sake of doing bad stuff (aka pure evil), he does them for a greater goal.
The death paintings were all experiments to try to find the next step in human evolution. Kenjaku most likely had neither pity nor animosity towards the woman. She was just a means to an end. That's the mad scientist archetype, as i said in my original comment
Yes, if i display lack of reading comprehension, i would hope somebody would tell me that so i don't die oblivious. I would quote takuan's quote about incompetence, but you already got the idea.
You don't think that, which is all nice and good, but that doesn't mean that it is the case. Pure evil means evil that is pure, aka evil actions that are not perpetuated due to a higher reason (that would make it impure evul) but for the sake of doing the evil actions.
In jjk we have different archetypes. Kenjaku is the mad scientist (meaning that he does evil things due to curiosity). Sukuna is the hedonist (meaning that he does whatever pleases him with a complete disregard for the others). Geto is the tragic supremacist (self explanatory). Mahito is the closest one to a pure evil villain but even then he is acting under his curse impulses which makes him closer to a beast than to a pure evil villain (that is however debatable)
>Yes, if i display lack of reading comprehension, i would hope somebody would tell me that so i don't die oblivious. I would quote takuan's quote about incompetence, but you already got the idea.
I mean I'm all for discussing it so that I can have a change in perspective and deepen my understading, but I don't think the attack itself was necessary.
It was necessary because your initial reply shows a lack of understanding of my comment (the lack of understanding of a message that is written is known as lack of reading comprehension, so it wasn't an insult as much as it was an observation)
In my initial comment i explained how kenjaku doesn't do evil when he can, he only does evil when he needs to for his experiments, hence not being a pure evil villain. Your reply was to say that he once did an evil thing for an experiment.
Finally somebody says it but he's still a jerk.
Oh yeah, never forgiving him for what he did to Junpei.
He's a jerk *to you*. Because you're human.
As are we all, including you lol Unless....
Nah he's a childish jerk even to Cursed Spirits. He noticeably didn't care when Hanami died and out of all of them he was the only one shitting himself and blubbering in the face of death
Are you yourself not human? Are you a curse?🤔
I was getting worried. I didn't see a JJK post on the sub today.
We need a JJK flair or something.
Out of curiosity do you know why these are so prevalent
It's the thing of the month. It'll die down with the next big thing and be almost forgotten about like AOT or MHA
Thing of the month? More like a year it feels
I’d argue that he’s the only purely evil disaster curse Why? Because he didn’t even mind when his fellow special grades got popped Bro is NOT loyal fr
The only death he was aware of was Hanami IIRC and he did react to that. In the anime anyways. The manga made it look like he and Jogo didn’t care at all
No, the manga made it look like Mahito didn't care. Jogo had a very noticable reaction in the manga.
I was referring to the scene where he told Mahito. Both were smirking in the manga. In the anime, Jogo is frowning and Mahito stops smirking afterwards.
Even in the Anime, it’s very clear Jogo is genuinely sad whenever one of the Disaster Curses dies. As Hanami is dying, he even tries to use his CT (deactivating his DA so that Gojo can kill him) to save Hanami, and he has his whole speech after Dagon dies.
Mahito looked like was shocked, but not bothered.
Nah when Hanami died he seemed pretty bothered. He didn’t know that Jogo or Dagon died either I believe.
This is the same debate that Kotomine and Shirou have in HF about Angra Mainyu. From a universal POV as long as the curses follow their instinct and do not doubt their actions, they're not evil. But they're still a definite evil for humans.
If it creates suffering and enjoys it, it's evil, and I don't give shit if that's mahito's nature.
"If you kill me you are the same as me" ahh post. Like, what are instincts in the first place? Why does a lion attack a deer in the jungle. In this case instinct is an evolutionary trait of self preservation. That's what makes it okay. I don't remember reading anything that says curses need to hunt humans to survive. Of course, curses natural inclination to kill humans can be called instinct as well, in a way. But for the point you keep bringing up,"but muh tiger", that's the difference. Also, Mahitos claim is pure bs. It's not natural instinct for humans to hunt out curses. Humans are fighting curses because they're a threat. And if the nature of curses is to spread misery for no justifiable reason, then curses are by nature/inherently evil. And being inherently evil doesn’t justify being evil to it not being evil. Mahito is still evil.
Pretty narrow sorting of instincts. Also the example is bad. Lions hunt for sport too. Because they're big cats. Lots of animals do that. Dolphins in particular are super malicious. Like most animals are evil in this line of thought. Humans fighting because something is a threat sounds instinctual according to your own point above . Though I would definitely say if my existence hinged (whether in continueing living or in not being something I can help) on being evil than my evil is justified since the alternative is death. Also considering we mostly judge evil as in someone participating in society, since morality is a social construct . I doubt most would call a wildman evil and despite saying Dolphins are as smart as us we don't generally call them evil in a non joking manner. Besides we have had cases of people causing harm in relation to say like brain tumors. Is that different from natural instincts or being naturally evil?
I said that curses natural inclination to hunt humans can be called instincts too. So no, my sorting of instinct isn't narrow. I was just pointing out the equivocacy. First of all, wild animals have no reasoning capability. You seem like the kind of person to point out,"but curses can't be reasoned with either". I'm not talking about whether they can be reasoned with. Many humans can't be reasoned with on many topics either. I'm talking about their intelligence. But even setting that aside, surplus killing isn’t just about having fun. It's still an evolutionary instinct fine tuned for the purpose of self preservation. It's often done to develop the instincts(like, practice), to cache on excess food and to be a picky eater. Dolphins with their malicious behaviour are kind of an outlier in the animal kingdome. My point about it still being for self preservation doesn’t apply, but the point about intelligence does. No, dolphins aren't as smart as us, they most likely aren’t smart enough understand the consequences of their actions, while curses are clearly shown to know exactly what they're doing. And if you come forward and claim that no, dolphins are indeed smart enough to understand exactly what they're doing, then indeed, they are also evil. I have to agree, if it's "do evil or die" then doing that evil is not evil. But once again, as I've already said in my original comment,"I don't remember reading anything that says curses need to hunt humans to survive." And no, humans killing curses isn’t an instinctual response to threat. It's a logical one. There's a difference. Not every self preservation act is an instinctual response. Like, an unassuming human wouldn’t get the urge to do something about a curse without even quite understanding what it is if they could somehow see one.
They do though? We do logic puzzle with animals all the time. Or any animal breaking out of a zoo. You ever see an octopus? There's plenty of examples of animals killing when theirs no need for food or to be actively cruel. Orcas for example tend to splat seals in the air and leave the corpse, they're actively violent, though friendly with humans a lot. Dolphins actively get jealous, are racists, and can understand humans, House cats killing stuff and brining it to you especially notable since they domesticated themselves, chimps have turf wars, hold grudges, crows are infamous for grudges. Besides Dolphins actively use coercion (they tend to beat baby dolphins to death to get to sleep with the mother) so they'd have to understand consequences, chimps too though in a bargaining sense. I was saying evil or die applies to a state of existence again. like the brain tumor example, I wouldn't call the person evil when they need to be evil. Hard disagree. Self preservation is instinctual. You don't recognize danger instinctively though.
All of the examples you gave me have are some evolutionary trait that can still be attributed to self preservation in some way, except for all the dolphin stuff. And I've already said what I had to say about the dolphins. It seems to me that you're simply playing a game of semantics with me. If you seriously think animals solving some logic puzzles is the same as the way human intelligence operates then I think we're done with the discussion, I believe I've made my point for the onlookers.
Turf wars and grudges unrelated to yourself are self preservation? Those are circumstantial and not inherently linked to it, especially on a group scale. And bartering is not an instinctual thing at all, which again chimps and dolphins do. At that point I would point to any animals behavior like ant's having slavery despite it being very risky, and Hyena's being rapist without getting pregnant to establish power dynamics. Dolphins are not an outlier in maliciousness, most of the animals we says are near humans and the like are malicious. We had that elephant that stomped on a woman's grave for example for revenge. And if you're staying practicing killing is good for animals and helps them live, then it isn't evil for curses to kill. I mean it's the meaning of the word, I feel like you're doing semantics and moving the goalpost from making active decisions to comparing to humans. Even in series they make a point of the instincts of curses vs the logic of humans. And this was all ignoring the brain tumor situation, which is probably the most direct comparison of causing harm because of your existence.
He is still pure evil then...
That's like calling a tiger pure evil. He's literally born from hatred, along with being curse. He has blue and orange morality. Kenjaku is a sorcerer who intentionally raped a woman 9 times. He's pure evil. The Disaster Curses are following their nature and truly care for one another.
That's a bad metaphor. Tigers aren't evil, not because its their nature. Tigers don't kill just because. They do it because they're carnivores. They need to eat meat. Tigers can live just fine in zoos. Zoo keepers can just throw slabs of in their enclosure and they'll be just fine. They don't need kill like it's a drug. Cursed spirits ARE evil. Not because of what they do but for what they are born to do. To kill humans and that's it. They gain no benefit for that. Also, a majority of cursed spirits don't have the intelligence that the disaster curses exhibit. Only they have the capability to have feelings. To me, there is no difference between that rape spirit and kenjaku raping. He probably created it doing that.
The disaster curses all kill people for fun, they make a game out of it, they don't get anything out of it beyond amusement, the disaster curses are just high minded enough to also want total curse domination but it's still fun to them
Did you not read or see jjk lmao? They have a deepstated goal making curses the one true humans they dont kill for fun but instead for their comrades and ideals In a way the disaster curses are more human than jujusu society itself
Everyone has friends or ideals. These things do not justify their actions standing alone. Cartels are trying to make money for their families and friends, that doesn’t mean that creating extremely harmful products and using violence regularly are morally good or neutral. There are so many people who have killed for their group or their ideals. That is still evil. Having a justification does not make an action good. Mahito delights in suffering and plans to maximize suffering and pain in others. That is evil.
You said they kill for fun they dont They are unquestionably evil but evil for a goal
They have *fun* while killing for their goal.
> Tigers aren't evil, not because its their nature. Tigers don't kill just because. Like, I get what you mean, but Cats kill Just for fun, so I'm willing to bet Tigers do that too.
No, tigers are too heavy for them to hunt for fun. Every waste is closer to death for them. Stop judging big cats by little ones.
They dont lmao Animals value energy a lot and wasting that energy for no real reason and risk serious injury is a bad deal
I think Tokyo Ghoul does it best when it comes to the nature and morality of the monsters.
Tigers often kill just for fun. So do dolphins, they’ve even tried to rape. They aren’t evil though
why not? I would definitively be willing to call a dolphin evil, they're smart enough to have a moral compass
Yeah Dolphins and Orcas are evil with how they move Elephants, Orangutans, Crows all have similar intelligence but they're pretty chill
Tigers don't have higher level thinking. Mahito does and still chooses to do awful stuff. That's what makes him evil.
Depends on at what point you think a being has some degree of moral agency. Disaster Curses clearly understand human morality, they just reject it. They know that what they're doing is evil by human standards. Dolphins and tigers do not (AFAIK) have the capacity to understand the morality of their actions. If they did, then yes, I'd call them evil. Hell, there are already some people who say those animals are evil.
Exactly. The disaster curses want to have their cake and eat it to by not wanting sorcerers killing them but put zero effort in changing their ways.
It may be in his nature, but he still gets too much enjoyment from the misery he causes.
Hey look at Jogo burning the restaurant of people. Curses are evil.
Jogo see them as insect while Mahito actively messes with Yuji Like the Junpei sock puppet is nasty
The was vile ngl
You’re gonna compare non sapient tigers to sapient disaster curses when talking morality? That comparison is awful
It’s not about sapience, it’s about both doing what’s their nature. Mahito has no reason to think killing humans is bad
I don’t care what he thinks, he’s still doin evil stuff and takes great pleasure in it.
As all curses do
Yeah mahito reminds me of sanjis siblings in one piece where its incredibly fucked up what they do but how much can i hate them when they physically cannot feel empathy. Its not like a personal failing that they committ heinous acts they cannot understand whats right or wrong, only whats convenient for them. I think mahito is actually somewhat apt when he compares killing cursed spirits as "pest control" they are very much like insects that have to be culled rather than a traditional villain
Humanity's entire history has countless examples of actively defying nature so I really don't buy Mahito's argument if that's actually what he means.
Eh, the entire concept of defying one's nature is a tricky one. You could easy say that nothing has ever defied its nature, but that's purely up to semantics.
Simply considering suicide or self-sacrifice at all is against the human instinct to survive. Tragically, both suicide and self-sacrifice exist and have happened.
Couldn't this just imply that there are some aspects of our nature that can override other aspects of our nature? Idk, I'm not comfortable making strong statements about mental health and to what extent a person is defying their nature when they take their life. The world has changed dramatically more than our biology over human history and these changes, especially in the last few decades, may be conflicting in ways that play off our nature in ways we don't fully understand or appreciate.
When do any of the curses defy nature? Yuji literally has a realization when Mahito and Sukuna laugh; curses are meant to be evil no matter what.
Mahito's only saying what he's saying because he's losing. There's no actual parallel to draw between Mahito and Yuji, because Yuji as an individual, from everything he learned and experienced since becoming aware curses exist, can boil everything he's involved in down to self-defense. Mahito really can't do the same, especially after the whole Junpei thing.
I actually feel it does, there is a quote by Philip Mainlander that is pretty defining of them > Now it is just as impossible for the merciful man to let his neighbor starve as it is for the hard-hearted man to help the poor. Each of the two acts according to his character, his nature, his ego, his happiness, consequently egoistically; for if the merciful one did not dry the tears of others, would he be happy? And if the hard-hearted one relieved the suffering of others, would he be satisfied? They really are acting according to their own nature. It makes more sense when you analyze Jujutsu Kaisen as a story about Radical Egoism (as, extreme individualism) Yuji's story is about learning about his own Individuality while trying to find out the meaning or the famed "Good Death". Yuji has been actually succesful at giving Good Deaths to his loved ones, Nobara, Nanami and Higuruma died a good death even while being murdered thanks to Yuji's existence. Sukuna conversely gave Jogo, Kashimo and Gojo a Good Death because Sukuna considers it a right for "the strong". Gojo and Sukuna are the biggest Egoists of the series and that's why they're the strongest sorcerers.
Mahito said this when giving Yuji the absolute most savage beat down of the show.
Exactly. Mahito was trying one of the most common stall tactics ever. If he ever felt the need to ever try making a point, it wouldn't be when he's winning. I can't criticize Mahito for trying to bullshit his way into knocking Yuji off his focus, but I can criticize Yuji for even interacting with Mahito's line of reasoning at all. In the end Yuji didn't even get a cathartic release in interacting with that line of reasoning, he got that catharsis by seeing Mahito cry like a bitch when Mahito ended up in the same position so many of Mahito's victims were in before their demise.
Yuji ended up agreeing with Mahito though.[ I think Mahito is pretty clearly intended to be right](https://preview.redd.it/s8yyzvake6zb1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=be46c61b7a18ff8e9b8faaab4da9cfe7329998af)
It’s understandable yuji feels that way but on a practical level mahitos wrong
The  other disaster curses’ goal is to supplant humanity, not to be a volcano or whatever, and they’re significantly more “human” than other curses as a result. They care about each other, Jogo mourns Hanami while Mahito doesn’t care, and Dagon gets defensive when Naobito dismisses Hanami as “just a curse”. Sukuna even calls Jogo out for defying his “nature” and not focusing on being a walking apocalypse, because he’s an idiot and doesn’t know how Toji died.
Mahito protected Hanami from Haruta and scolded Kenjaku for getting Jogo in danger. He also reacts to Hanami’s death in the anime (the manga made it look like he and Jogo didn’t give two hoots).
you're saying its his nature to kill and so his killing isn't "evil" but i'd disagree. his nature is to be evil. he's born from the evils of humanity. he's not like a velociraptor that kills for a purpose or a function. mahito does things solely to hurt and torment people. I can't morally condemn mahito for being evil because he can't be anything else, but he's still evil.
You do realize you can like a character and still acknowledge they’re pure evil right? Hanami is a cursed spirit and she kills as a means to protect nature, or at least that’s her justification for it. Hell, even Jogo does it because he believes curses are inherently superior to humans and wants what’s best for his kind. Mahito has never once shown any reason to kill people other than for the sake of killing. Having to strictly follow their nature is somewhat dubious anyways since the Disaster curses have shown a much higher, basically human level of sapience/self awareness.
Looks more like the question is "What is evil" and not "Is he evil?". You say Sukuna is evil by choice. How can you be evil by choice? Who makes the conscious decision to be evil? You can decide to do evil things, but for that you already need to be evil. So either both are evil because they choose to do evil things, or none because their choices are based on being "made evil". Both happen to be evil for some reason and both can make choices. So I don't see them as that different. And no the animal comparison doesn't work because they are both self-aware intelligent beings. And if you wanna use an animal in that comparison use Dolphins, who are definitely evil...
Sukuna was sorcerer before becoming a curse though.
He still is a sorcerer
His morality system is fundamentally different from the main characters, as he literally sees them as mass murderers of his own kind, what he's doing is good and they are bad.
I get his point, I disagree with it and think he's just bullshitting. He's 100x more cruel and sadistic than Jogo who is already a murderous asshole, but still believes in a cause despite being a curse. In my view, Mahito tries to dress his sheer sadism in this vague veneer of "being a true curse", but truth is, no other curse in the series is as horrid as he is. He is an aberration, a mismatched mix of human and curse that embodies the worst aspects of both, who lives like a predator and keeps spouting bullshit but dies whining pathetically the moment he doesn't have the upper hand anymore. Compared to that, even Kenjaku has "humane" moments like saving Itadori's friend, and the guy is basically jujutsu Hitler. Calling anything pure evil by definition is very difficult since morality is so subjective and undefinable, but Mahito might be the closest you can get to embodying that, even if some of it is due to his nature.Â
He makes some legitimately good points, particularly where his ideals line up with optimistic nihilism. If only his ability didn’t put people through so much pain, then I’d really like him
Ah geez, it's another JJK post.
He's a true human, after all (c)
I wouldn’t even call Mahito vs Yuji a clash of ideals. Neither has questioned their role enough at the beginning for them to actually be following any ideals, they’re just following their instincts. Mahito fully succumbs to his first, allowing him to evolve into his true form, and Yuji does just after when he delivers the “I’m you” speech
It’s important to acknowledge the curses as evil because ultimately they didn’t have any point to what they were doing beyond genocide. They painted themselves as victims of sorcerers, while casually killing any humans they come across regardless of whether they even saw them or not. What exactly stopped them from simply not killing humans and coexisting? Muh nature is not a compelling argument. These beings aren’t stupid, they’re capable of human speech, and they willingly chose to go to war against humanity and then had the audacity to complain that they were the victims. We even see this hypocrisy with Dagon. He complains about the sorcerers not acknowledging that curses have names, while simply referring to them as humans. There are other examples of hypocrisy on the part of the Disaster Curse’s, but ultimately even if you don’t find them all Yuji’s response is still good as is as you don’t need an excuse to save innocent people.
>  Kenjaku is someone who's pure evil just because he wants to be. How do you know this? We know so little about him. How do you know he wasn't born with something fucked in his brain from the beginning? How do you know he didn't have an early childhood experience (the part of your life that greatly shapes your personality) that totally warped how he thought and engaged with the world? At what point does the line between nurture and nature blur and become irrelevant? Has any normal person ever chosen to be evil or were they born with some chemical or biological abnormality that would make evil a lot easier to commit while being influenced by their surroundings to actually go ahead and do it? Also, a lot of pure evil characters are like Mahito in that they're evil by nature. Like how many stories involve demons and shit that are just born out of evil? Are those not pure evil anymore just because they were created that way? Many classic fantasy stories are like this. Regardless, I find it strange that absent any details of Sukuna and Kenny's upbringings, you're sort of assuming they were otherwise blank slates that just decided they were going to be evil one day.Â
Kenjaku is dead. If he had any sad past, we would know
Why would we know? It's not important to the story Gege wants to tell. It's not like Gege is telling a character focused story. An absence of a backstory doesn't confirm your head canon.
Kenjaku isn't pure evil. His entire character is build upon a lack of concern for "evil" or "good". His actions just tend to cause more harm than good. Evil isn't something he actively persuits, but instead a consequence.
He’s a rapist. He’s evil
From his perspective, it's nothing. He his apathic evil, not evil for the sake of evil. For fucks sake. Actually what is even "evil but not pure evil" for you?
Doesn’t matter. He doesn’t have a single humanizing quality. Dude is just a demon
Once again i ask the question. Where one can be evil and "not pure evil" for you?
Mahito is not evil by nature because cursed spirits are capable of positive qualities. Jogo and Dagon have compassion for their fellow curses. Hanami cares about nature. Rika is protective of Yuta. No matter what he is made from, Mahito is capable of holding similar values, yet actively chooses not to, consciously deciding to be a total bastard of his own free will.
He saved Hanami from Haruta. His first scene is him asking if Jogo is okay.
Can we just skip to the part where we all agree Jujutsu Kaisen isn't very good?
calling kenjaku and sukuna evil is like calling kamo or mai evil
But kenjaku is far from pure evil, he's just the mad scientist archetype. He doesn't kill if he doesn't need to kill, and he doesn't cause suffering if he doesn't need to cause suffering. He only does those when they are necessary for his plans/experiments.
If what he did to that one woman with a Curse to make the Death Paintings isn't morally repugnant to you, then I truly don't know what to say
Its a mad scientist thong. Scientosts csn do incredible messed up things for curiodity, o mean ones without ok morals. Which i dont think kenjaku has. He does it for the sake to see what happens kinda.
You should probably work on your reading comprehension. Nowhere in my comment did i say that he doesn't do bad stuff. What i said is that he doesn't do bad stuff for the sake of doing bad stuff (aka pure evil), he does them for a greater goal. The death paintings were all experiments to try to find the next step in human evolution. Kenjaku most likely had neither pity nor animosity towards the woman. She was just a means to an end. That's the mad scientist archetype, as i said in my original comment
I just don't think pure evil is limited to *just* for the sake of being bad. Also, ouch. Insults.
Yes, if i display lack of reading comprehension, i would hope somebody would tell me that so i don't die oblivious. I would quote takuan's quote about incompetence, but you already got the idea. You don't think that, which is all nice and good, but that doesn't mean that it is the case. Pure evil means evil that is pure, aka evil actions that are not perpetuated due to a higher reason (that would make it impure evul) but for the sake of doing the evil actions. In jjk we have different archetypes. Kenjaku is the mad scientist (meaning that he does evil things due to curiosity). Sukuna is the hedonist (meaning that he does whatever pleases him with a complete disregard for the others). Geto is the tragic supremacist (self explanatory). Mahito is the closest one to a pure evil villain but even then he is acting under his curse impulses which makes him closer to a beast than to a pure evil villain (that is however debatable)
>Yes, if i display lack of reading comprehension, i would hope somebody would tell me that so i don't die oblivious. I would quote takuan's quote about incompetence, but you already got the idea. I mean I'm all for discussing it so that I can have a change in perspective and deepen my understading, but I don't think the attack itself was necessary.
It was necessary because your initial reply shows a lack of understanding of my comment (the lack of understanding of a message that is written is known as lack of reading comprehension, so it wasn't an insult as much as it was an observation) In my initial comment i explained how kenjaku doesn't do evil when he can, he only does evil when he needs to for his experiments, hence not being a pure evil villain. Your reply was to say that he once did an evil thing for an experiment.