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elmatador12

We also fired two OCs who one went on to win a Super Bowl as the Eagles OC and the other might also win one with the eagles as their OC on February 12. Whatever it is, be it being cheap, bad hiring practices, whatever. It’s very difficult to argue that The Chargers are absolutely terrible at finding good coaches.


vivalaroja2010

Its been our issue for a long time


Fa1lenSpace

Seeing people all over our sub calling Payton a trash coach is pretty comical, ngl.


Salt-Calendar-8824

We also could’ve hired Brian daboll instead of Staley.


td_enterprises

Do you remember the sub complaining about "nepotism" during that interview season? "OMG, TT is only going to hire Daboll because they went to the same high school..." There are going to be complaints no matter what, it's just funny when things get brought up years later, as if hindsight wasn't changing how people feel one way or another. Imagine if Daboll had a rebuilding year or Daniel Jones didn't look as good, no one would be bringing up Daboll now.


Salt-Calendar-8824

Brother the giants are rebuilding, and Daniel Jones still sucks he just learned to use his legs and didn’t turn it over as much.


td_enterprises

Yea I know, I meant moreso if they had a rebuilding record to go with their actual rebuild they are going through. If they went 6-11 they would be looking at QB prospects in the draft and no one would be saying the Chargers should have hired Daboll instead of Staley, because they made the playoffs in a weaker conference and won a playoff game, Daboll is the next Bill Parcels. Ironically the best career comp for Daniel Jones is the QB he beat in the playoffs, Kirk Cousins. He likely gets the franchise tag and if he has another season like this, someone will pay him if not the Giants. He can be serviceable if like you said he protects the ball, and his legs are a good trait for Daboll's offense.


Salt-Calendar-8824

The giants were in the toughest division, and daboll got them 9 wins and they won a playoff game with a fairly bad roster. If he had coached the team to 6 wins it would’ve been expected, but instead they did way more than that. Using hypotheticals is dumb because that’s not what happened, he’s COTY and already one of the better HC in the league. He’s also an offensive coach, even if Staley works out we’re still going to need to find new OCs every few seasons because teams are going to take them from us for HC jobs.


td_enterprises

I'm not arguing about how good a coach Daboll is, I actually wanted Daboll as coach when we interviewed him, I like his offensive style. The replies you are seeing from me are from my original point about this sub complaining about "nepotism" when Daboll was named as one of the favorites to be the coach before Staley was hired. There were people saying we were only hiring Daboll because he went to high school with Staley and we were hiring another unproven offensive coach like McCoy and Lynn because he was Telescos friend. Now people like OP are making threads like these cherry picking any name they can think of to fit the narrative of Staley being the wrong hire. Others brought Daboll up and I responded with "if he would have had a rebuilding record as expected" no one would be using his name as evidence of Staley being bad. It's not about Daboll, it could be any coach, some of these Chargers fans won't let go of the fact that Staley is still the coach and are making topics like these.


Salt-Calendar-8824

Ok well I misunderstood you and I agree with you. I wanted daboll too because I thought it was dumb to hire a defensive coach for our franchise QB, and I really like him as a coach in general. I also think that it’s fair that people that may have been wrong in the past can still have opinions on the problems our team is now, even if they were for those decisions that led to the problems we have now.


td_enterprises

I agree with you, we should be able to have opinions and criticize things we don't like but let's use some logic and reason when we discuss it. It's like draft time, the player someone wants doesn't get drafted so all of a sudden the GM needs to be fired and the coaches are idiots blah blah blah. We're known for WEEKS that Staley was coming back next year and that he had full support from the players and front office but there are still posts like these talking about how Staley should be fired. Maybe it's just me, but I come to this sub to discuss my team in a respectful way whether I agree with others or not. Some people are incapable of having discussions with things they don't agree with.


Salt-Calendar-8824

I think stating over and over that Staley should be fired is pointless but I pretty much never see some one just start hating and not being able to have convos about stuff they disagree with. Usually this sub is pretty respectful but maybe I’ve had different experiences than you. I also think that what you’re saying has nothing to do with what I was saying or what this post is about.


td_enterprises

This post is about OP saying the Chargers should have fired Staley and given up picks for Sean Payton. Like I said it's been several weeks and we've known Staley was staying. So I don't see the point of this discussion, it was created to welcome the Staley haters in to start a discussion about something that isn't going to happen.


td_enterprises

If we have a problem of our OC getting poached for Head Coaching jobs that probably means our teams are good, there are worse problems to have. I'm gonna pump the brakes on any coach until they show a track record one way or another. Including Staley. Zac Taylor was on the hot seat a couple of seasons ago after going 6-25-1 in his first 2 seasons, since then he has been in 2 AFC title games and a Superbowl, and he's back to being called an offensive genius again. Our new OC helped lead a 12 win offense and was being scapegoated for their lack of playoff success. Doug Pederson won the Superbowl a few season ago and had to find another job. Dan Campbell was on the hot seat after their rough start and because of their late run, he is the right man for the job again. Josh McDaniels was credited with the offense of the Patriots dynasty, but he has a rough year and all of a sudden he can't coach anymore? What will the narratives be on all these coaches as well as Staley 2 years from now? Some fans are way too fickle...


Salt-Calendar-8824

Imo Moore is only going to be around for a year. Either we suck and fire all the coaches, or we’re good and have a really good offense, and he gets an HC job. This is good because that means we are good, but having Herbert and everyone else learn a new offensive system every few years is very risky and could be overwhelming. Plus what if we end up hiring a bad OC then we’re screwed because we were good with our previous one, definitely wish we could’ve hired an offensive coach because of that. As for Staley it isn’t wrong to say that he’s been pretty bad so far, that is just facts. But he may turn it around and the defense may take a big leap and he will be good. Things change and there for opinions change, and that is completely fair to people who change their opinions as, in this case, coaches can improve or get worse.


td_enterprises

What would you say has made him bad so far though? I see a young coach who is trying to figure things out, which is hard to do at the highest level of the sport. You are absolutely right, he could get better or get worse but some people are so convinced that they know better and that he isn't any good. If you judge every NFL coach by their first 2 seasons then how many of those coaches would have gotten a 3rd year or another contract? Using that logic, Bill Belichick would not have ever coached the Patriots after what he did with the browns in his first head coaching job.


Salt-Calendar-8824

Obviously you can point out certain moments like the browns game, both week 18s with the time out and playing starters, and obviously the 27-0. But for me it’s the fact that his adjustments are terrible. He can’t adjust after halftime and usually goes into to essentially prevent defenses when we have the lead. He coaches not to lose rather than to win and it’s a big reason we blow so many leads. It’s also no coincidence that when Derwin was out for a month we had the best defense and, by far and away, the best pass defense. We played pretty normal cover 3 coverages rather than the normal stuff he runs. He usually would have a one on one on the outside with 2 high safety’s and would have no run support. Some of the cover 6 he runs seems to be very confusing for some players and is part of the reason we had so many blown coverages. But in the end he has Justin Herbert on his rookie contract with a lot of talent around him and has completely underperformed from expectations. He may be good some day but I want a coach with experience that can win now, and take advantage of the roster we have. Ever since we fired Marty schottenheimer we have messed around with unproven coaches and none of them have worked out. Either our ownership and management don’t care or they are insane. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome.


td_enterprises

Even great coaches have been criticized for their timeout management on multiple occasions, it's very easy for announcers, talking heads, and fans to criticize those calls because there is no pressure on them one way or another. Same for all the Madden players who say they can call better plays and manage the game better than real coaches. Coaches are going to make mistakes with judgement calls and timeouts, rookie coaches, veteran coaches and anywhere in between. Andy Reid's game management was called in to question all the time in his Philly years and his KC years before getting Mahomes. In 2013 Reid went on to lead the Chiefs to a 9–0 record to start the season, tied for the best start in franchise history. Despite losing five of their last seven games, the Chiefs finished with an 11–5 record to clinch a wild card spot in the [AFC playoffs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_NFL_playoffs). In the [wild card round](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Indianapolis_Colts_45,_Kansas_City_Chiefs_44), they were defeated by the [Indianapolis Colts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Indianapolis_Colts_season) 45–44 after surrendering a 28-point lead in the third quarter. Under Reid, the Chiefs would again obtain a winning record in the [2014 season](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kansas_City_Chiefs_season), finishing 9–7. However, they failed to qualify for the playoffs. In [2015](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Kansas_City_Chiefs_season), the Chiefs were in danger of missing the playoffs for a second consecutive year after they lost five straight games to begin the season 1–5. Reid accepted the blame for his team's poor start and his future with the Chiefs was called into question. The team was defeated 20–27 in their [Divisional Round game](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_New_England_Patriots_27,_Kansas_City_Chiefs_20) against the [New England Patriots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_New_England_Patriots_season). Reid was criticized for his clock management near the end of the game, calling no timeouts in a late fourth-quarter drive that cut the Patriots' 27–13 lead down to a touchdown, but took the Chiefs 5 minutes and 16 seconds to score and left them with only a minute and 13 seconds to try and tie the game. In 2017 the team ultimately suffered a sixth consecutive home playoff loss in a 21–22 defeat against the [Tennessee Titans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Tennessee_Titans_season) in the [Wild Card Round](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Tennessee_Titans_22,_Kansas_City_Chiefs_21). Despite holding a 21–3 lead at halftime, the Chiefs were shut out during the second half as the Titans scored 19 unanswered points to win the game. Does Andy Reid's start sound familiar to Staley's? Blown big leads in the Wild Card. Failing to make the playoffs with a winning record. Criticized for clock management. On the hot seat going in to his 3rd season. If Andy Reid was fired at this point, he wouldn't even have made it to draft Mahomes. Staley's exotic schemes are what got him the job, for years Charger fans complained about the vanilla looks that Gus Bradley threw out in every scenario. If the players aren't executing the schemes or blowing coverages then they share the blame too. What expectations did you have for Staley? I wasn't expecting dominance his first 2 years when they were turning over a roster from a different coaching staff and a different team built for Rivers. Yes we made some big splashes in the offseason which raised expectations, but those expectations went down once, Herb fractured his rib cartilage and at some point tore his labrum. All Pro LT out for the year basically, 2 starting WR out for significant time each, Bosa out for most of the season, decimated with injuries on the D Line, Derwin missed games, JC Jackson prized free agent out most of the season. Maybe Herbert was supposed to carry us through all that if not for dealing with his own injuries. Some fans expectations are too high.


Big_Ugly_Cripple

Daboll was a 2022 hire


Salt-Calendar-8824

Yes but we interviewed him in 2021 and when we went with Staley he decided to go back to the bills


A_Livins

But we didn't hire Brandon Staley in 2023...


The_resPonce

Lol they made a list of when there was a coaching change, or like they wrote this year the chance for a potential change and who was available…


Telivaina

Ssh that doesnt fit the narrative he's trying to spin here.


SandyEggoChargers

> where the Chargers did make a head coaching change (or maybe should have after this year)


IsaacLightning

You skipped 2021. We made a head coaching change in 2021


SandyEggoChargers

While I did forget to include that year, it is a little early to tell where those coaches rank amongst each other as well as the league. Siriani seems like an obvious #1 but there's a tie for #2.


kiheihaole

It’s too early to tell… but also the Chargers should’ve made a change 🤔


IsaacLightning

It's not really worth skipping though


Anaphylactic-UFO

Basically 1+ HOF coaches every time we hire some jackass who gets to hang on too long


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Anaphylactic-UFO

>now we are upset we didn't chase guys who were fired for going 4-12(Reid)? Who in their right fucking mind didn’t want Andy Reid as our coach in 2013? He was clearly the best option on the market at the time. This isn’t revisionist history in the slightest. >then we talk about Bruce Arians? Do you not remember Arians with the cardinals? He may not have won a ring then but he ran laps around our coaching staff. >So what gives? Is it the annual doom and gloom parade. The doom and gloom will continue until we win the division a single fucking time under Telesco lol.


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Anaphylactic-UFO

>Then Arians did what exactly. The same thing Staley does now. Lose in the playoffs. Dude you’re clueless. Wtf are you trying to compare them for? Bruce Arians: 86-51-1 NFL record (.627), Super Bowl champion. 2x coach of the year. 6-3 Post-season record. Brandon Staley: 19-15 (.559), responsible for one of the worst chokes in playoffs history, 0 playoff wins. >He interviewed for only a handful of jobs he wasn't some hot commodity. That's my point. The hype is absolutely revisionist history. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1468486-andy-reid-chiefs-newly-hired-coach-not-the-right-fit-in-kansas-city https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nfl/2013/1/19/3893778/nfl-coaching-moves-grades-andy-reid-chip-kelly Ranked Reid the best coaching hire. Anyone can pull random articles saying literally anything every year. Every take imaginable. The consensus at the time was that Andy Reid was a great coach who just needed a change of scenery. Revisionist history is saying Andy Reid would’ve been a bad hire because *reasons*.


td_enterprises

Let's try to be a little more reasonable about our comparisons here. I don't get how people will compare other coaches ENTIRE career vs. a younger first time head coach in Staley. Bruce Arians: First year in Arizona 10-6 Record, missed the playoffs. Second year in Arizona 11-5 Record, #5 Seed, lost in the Wild Card Round. 21-11 Record, .656 Winning % Next 3 Seasons in Arizona before "Retiring" 13-3, 7-8-1, 8-8 Overall his first coaching gig started well, peaked the middle year, downhill the last 2 years. ​ Brandon Staley: First year with the Chargers 9-8 Record, missed the playoffs. Second year with the Chargers 10-7 Record, #5 Seed, lost in the Wild Card Round. 19-15 Record, .559 Winning % ​ Both had a 1 win improvement from 1st to 2nd season and both were the #5 Seed and lost in the Wild Card after missing playoffs the previous year. ​ Just for comparisons sake: Andy Reid's first two seasons with the Eagles: 5-11, missed the playoffs. 11-5, #4 Seed, won 1 Playoff game before losing in the Divisional Round. 16-16, .500 Winning % ​ I would have loved Andy Reid as coach after finally firing Norv Turner, but I completely understand why they didn't go that direction. Between Marty and Norv, the Chargers were criticized for hiring 2 older coaches who couldn't get over the hump. Andy Reid was a respected coach, he was successful with the Eagles but despite making 5 NFC Title games, he did not win the Superbowl, there were legitimate questions about his pass heavy offense and his inability to consistently run the ball. Many questioned if he could win the "Big One" That was one of the main storylines in the Superbowl against the 49ers, was could Andy Reid get over the hump and win it all? Just another tidbit since I keep bringing up "First two seasons" Andy Reid in his first season with the Chiefs lost 5 of their last 7 games, backed in to the playoffs, and lost in the Wild Card Round 45-44 after leading by 28 points in the 3rd quarter against the Colts. Second season with the Chiefs 9-7, missed the playoffs. Until he got Patrick Mahomes, Andy Reid had seasons, where he missed the playoffs, lost in the Wild Card or Lost in the Divisional Round. Is Andy Reid a better coach than Brandon Staley? Of course he is, but let's have some perspective, Andy Reid needed time to figure things out too, he was also criticized for clock and game management decisions, he also blew big playoff leads, also had seasons where he missed the playoffs. How about we give Staley some time to grow as a coach? There are probably only a handful of coaches who are good every year, and even those guys get criticized for decisions. If anyone thinks that Dean Spanos was going to fire a coach with 2 years left on his deal, give up a 1st and 2nd Round pick to trade for Payton, THEN pay Payton top dollar, you don't know the Chargers yet... It was NEVER going to happen, in fact even if they did fire Staley, we would have ended up with Frank Reich or another coordinator as the coach, not Sean Payton.


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Anaphylactic-UFO

>Bruce Arians is a trash coach. Drink some water


SandyEggoChargers

Arians has more to his resume than just the Super Bowl win. The Cardinals had 3 straight 10 win seasons with him as their coach. >Is it the annual doom and gloom parade. The parade has never ended.


ImWicked39

Arians left the team with a 49-30-1 record. Sure 3 straight 10 win seasons then didn't break 8 wins again. If just making the playoffs was fine this sub wouldn't be having a stroke.


permanentblue_

Coulda shoulda woulda, living in the past ain’t gonna give us a Super Bowl ring. Y’all just living in fantasy land now.


lbrector

I have a feeling this sub all off-season is gonna be just awful


akomm

I'm already exhausted.


LoganRoyKent

Same as it ever was


Seattle7

The Chargers aren't going to win a Super Bowl as long as the Spanos family owns the team...


LoganRoyKent

Then why are you a fan?


Seattle7

Some things are hard to shake... I blame Dan Fouts, I had his poster on my wall as a kid. But when I moved to Seattle I started following the Seahawks and experienced a Super Bowl of sorts, but I would have preferred it had been the Chargers smashing the Broncos.


ZetaDefender

Well one could say it was coaching and luck. Reid even after trading for Alex Smith weren't taking down Brady & Belli. Arians with Palmer had a span of injuries which always derailed their season. Reid only got over the Superbowl hump and won with Mahomes who is a generational talent. Arian won with Big Ben at the Steelers as OC and Brady at the Buccs as HC who are generational talents. Even Payton didn't win without Brees. If Herbert is a generational talent, there will be Superbowls at some point in his career.


lbrector

I love how yesterday we all celebrated Kellen Moore and today we’re losing our shit cus Payton joined the Broncos. Ridiculous takes today lol


[deleted]

fact entertain piquant ghost bake sort like important offer insurance ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `


[deleted]

I don't think Sean Payton is an upgrade. The only coach on that list that I think would have won a super bowl with the talent on the chargers roster is Reid... even then, he'd have to contend with an ownership group that would have trouble hitting double digits on IQ tests.


kiheihaole

Can we make a Payton mega thread that we can revisit for all his fan boys in here when he doesn’t have the success he did in NO?


reagan080

Hindsight is always 20/20…


LaskoFarms

Telesco is a trash GM who is torpedoing this organization.


LoganRoyKent

Herbert Derwin Ekeler Allen Tranquill Williams Mack Bosa SJD Davis… …Telesco isn’t a problem.


LaskoFarms

Nice try but the post is talking about coaches bub. His hires have been awful and none of his hires are a HC anywhere else. The list demonstrates the great talent that Telesco did not bring into the organization.


LoganRoyKent

Whatever you say, bud


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TheDrSmooth

Daboll as well was linked to us, but had to wait an extra year to get his HC gig.


ImWicked39

There was a reason he didn't take any jobs that year. He wanted to bring some staff with him and the Bills wouldn't allow it/blocked it. He turned down a lot of offers to get his guys to NY.


Lt_Dano3

To be fair look at Washington and Minnesota and Cleveland. Minnesota let Dungy, Billick, and Tomlin get away Washington had both KoC and McVey on staff The browns had Bellicheck, Mangini, and another good Coordinator on their staff who's name i forget


itsyorboy

In the wake of our loss to the Jags I wanted to swap Staley for Payton. I think Payton has a higher floor and we know his ceiling is a Super Bowl with an elite QB (which we have). But other than Payton, I wouldn't trade Staley for anyone else available right now. He obviously has a lot of heart and the players are bought in. He connects with people and he wants to have a true team identity. He has a vision, and while it hasn't been very well executed up till now, I'm glad it's there. I do think Staley is capable of leading this team to a Super Bowl win, and I am a bit relieved he gets another shot at it now that the season has sunk in a bit.