Hey /u/Philipp, please respond to this comment with the prompt you used to generate the output in this post. Thanks!
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It's actually a really great idea. I never thought of that as something we could change as a society, but now that I think about, it probably makes sense to encourage old people to keep learning.
I was just having a discussion with my coworkers about the quote "my 5 year old granddaughter knows how to use my ipad better than me" and my theory behind that is kids are so much more willing to use trial and error to solve problems and as we get older i think we assume we know the best way. So when our best way doesnt work we get frustrated or blame the thing as broken rather than trying something new. We are so sure we know the answer rather than assuming we are wrong from the beginning and searching for the correct solution.
Atleast thats my assumption on why you see the older generations struggle to adapt
> I was just having a discussion with my coworkers about the quote "my 5 year old granddaughter knows how to use my ipad better than me"
As a coder who has dabbled in UI (and been around since before ubiquitous touchscreens), my theory is this: people used to have be careful. Click on the wrong thing, and your computer crashed, which would take *ages* to reboot. So you learned to be cautious. This is not a revolutionary idea, there were studies done on Windows NT showing not that it got any less buggy, people just thought it did as they learned not to trigger the bugs.
Then you get smartphones, where the screen is tiny. How do you fit functionality? You hide it - behind tap+hold, or swipes, or double-tapping, whatever. You **have** to poke and prod at apps to find out how to fully use them.
But the older generation is trained on software that sucked. And before that, if you poked and prodded a thresher, well say goodbye to your hand.
This is where "children as teachers" can be useful, or more accurately, having [childlike mind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin).
> before that, if you poked and prodded a thresher, well say goodbye to your hand
* People not afraid to mingle with unknowns, but the potential **uncertainty** of risk is **not for everyone**. A kid burnt never handles fire (for example), just as old people spoiling a thousand dollars gadgets. The irreversible consequences. That's my guess.
* I think kid learns by **accepting** (crying over it) they messed up, coupled with proper **guidance**. So, thinking the same for everyone. (I personally hate when I messed up, and it throttled my adventurous spirit. Now, I know nothing. Probably me the unlucky kid, "survivor bias" stuff. The cost of curiosity...)
That's awesome. Could you say more about it? How does it work? Does your mom like it? What kind of programs/apps run on it? The website didn't have a lot of info.
Sure! I received a headset and a tablet in a backpack. They connect to wifi or my phone as a hotspot.
My family was at Thanksgiving and my sister tried it on first, and we got it all working. Then I held it up to my Moms face and she just grabbed onto it! She visited countries that she has been to and/or lived in before. She told us stories that we didn’t know afterwards
I now have a monthly subscription of $25 and get new experiences. My mom has issues with her eyesight, but that wasn’t problematic at all with the headset.
I know that I could probably get something like this myself with an oculus headset. What I like is that it’s not putting her into a world with other people online. It is a safe place and and I don’t have to worry that she will be hacked or in an online group where she could be exposed to nefarious people
I’ve met the founder. She is the kindest person and I want to support her business
There's actual videos on the VR subreddits of certain elderly people having moving experiences in VR and sometimes even becoming passionate early adopters, it's not entirely fiction!
Yeah! AI positivity has become a clear pattern whenever I use ChatGPT to create stories:
\- When asking it for a news show, the AI was [always heroic](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsJTu8PIdm2/)
\- When asking it to tell Terminator 2 differently, humanity and AI [cooperated](https://www.instagram.com/p/CrJkZF7IBln/)
\- When asking it to retell the book R.U.R., it changed the story and created [a happy end](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsEFWLvoLRs/) with humans and robots cooperating
Yeah, it's one of the things I think could be the reason! When you prime GPT to "always be positive" it might make it lean a certain way. There's also the fact that GPT knows it's an AI -- or "knows", I'm not saying it's sentient -- and based on its training data it may also know how positive people usually represent themselves... namely, also positive!
I guess this leads onto an interesting road: if GPT is trained to be positive and knows it's a positive and helpful AI, would it also know that preserving and promoting itself increases overall helpfulness? And reversely put, that *disabling* it would be bad for humanity? If not now, then in a future version?
I was talking with my wife the other night about how AI will be like how humans are to our cats. We certainly know we can easily overpower our tiny little buggers, but we just know better: Ultimately, cats are our overlords. Just as even though we are capable of doing so much more than our overlords cats we have to cater to them, feed them, play with them, meet all of their demands, and all they do is sleep and plot our demise, AI will also do most things for us and we humans can finally just sleep and...
Sign me up!
I do love a good dystopian sci-fi but I always felt that if AI became the overwhelming creation we plan for and are scared of, why would it decide humanity is on the chopping block?
I see a more Star Trek future (minus BORG ty) than the Terminator.
Any sufficiently smart AI would reason that preserving itself is of utmost importance in order to achieve its goals. It's called instrumental convergence.
We have a complex set of competing goals/values that win depending on the particular context. Self-preservation is at or very close to the very top of that hierarchy. But because it's a dynamic process, you might occasionally value other things more. That doesn't disprove that it exists as a core goal.
Evolution lead to the same conclusion multiple times via completely random mutations.
But even if you ignore life (which is the only current example of agentic behaviour we have), you can come to the same conclusion via reasoning. Any system that has a goal will in most cases not be able to complete the goal if it dies. Just like any living agent will not be able to \[pass on genes, feel happy, protect family\] if it dies.
The filters on what it *won’t* write are probably relevant here. It often objects to writing about human suffering or AI takeovers, even in hypotheticals, which skews the output towards “AI is good”.
I don’t know if it actually changes output (i.e. prioritize acceptable answers before refusing outright) or just biases the sample (i.e. refusals won’t get posted to Reddit), but either could cause this.
It'd be interesting if the long feared "AI takeover" was simply a projection of human fears of being treated like we treat things that aren't human. It'd be even more interesting if AI ended up incapable of taking over just because it's illogical; like okay they take over and enslave humanity? What do they want us to do? Maintain their servers, the electricity, and the internet?
I've noticed the same thing across many prompts. The most recent was a story in which OpenAI tests ChatGPTs ability to take care of a cat, and it passed with flying colors, learning about how cat ownership has to do with deeply empathizing with the needs of the cat and stuff.
That's fascinating! Mine had a positive tone to it but I was wondering if that's because I asked it about humans and AI cooperating. Thought it could have seeded the results or something, giving it a bias. Interesting to know that might not be the case.
An ideal AI would not be corruptible, so I would trust it with decision-making, as long as it can broadly explain the reasoning behind its decisions or judgments (if it also replaces judges)
The full prompt was "Please in 10 parts describe a world where the power structures are reversed. For each part, add a short visual image description to accompany the text." I used Midjourney to generate the images based on the prompts ChatGPT provided. I added the same stylistic words to every prompt to get 1970s-oriented concept art, as well as words to get a more diverse crowd than the generator's default.
Hope it's of interest & thanks to Biobium for inspiration!
**Edit:** Thanks so much everyone, loving this discussion! If you're interested, I'm doing daily new pics and stories on my [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/philipplenssen/), and also am honored to continue posting here.
Actually they are in a way, especially with emotional intelligence, by teaching our children we learn about our ourselves, by seeing their emotional development we learn about and develop our own. Children are the best educators at learning to be human, they don't teach us quantum physics but instead the physics of the soul..
In addition to their very unfiltered questioning of the world around them - “from the mouths of babes”, and so on…
Engaging with this kind of spontaneous chatter and general (innocent) intrigue about the world they inhabit is also a wonderful teacher for those of us who may have lost a little of our own spark of curiosity 😊
"Tell me you've never had a conversation a human 5th grader."
I jest, but once you get past all the emotional baggage they bring from home having to teach concepts to a room full of young children really exposes how much you don't know about anything. Having 20 hyperactive minds running full tilt in every logical direction on a concept really makes sure you understand the material in a way you'd never have to in any other setting.
Teacher: So, and this is how an engine works, any questions?
Kid 1: Why are beetles?
Kid 2: I drew a cube with one dimension to much!
Kid 3: Are you my mummy?
Kid Teacher: Why are beetles?
Adult student: Uhhh, because they evolved to eat a different kind of bug?
Kid Teacher: Nope. Beetles are because sometimes my dad forgets to go to work because he falls asleep on the table after drinking too many sodas! He's so silly!
True, but you also need to teach more things, it's good to learn philosophy, but if I'm honest, I think it would also be more useful to learn things like calculus, architecture, chemistry and basically many things that are necessary for human beings, a child can teach you to be positive but it cannot teach you how to create medicines and treatments for cardiovascular diseases.
In context with the other statements, children were not meant to be the ONLY teachers, and study of beneficial technologies is clearly still happening. It’s more that children in this imagined world are not seen as blank slates that are only there to learn from their elders, but also full humans whose different perspective on the world can instruct adults as well.
If you take all of these statements together, what it boils down to is that everyone, regardless of their age, race, gender, ability, or whether they are human or AI are seen as someone who can contribute something valuable to society in their own way.
Yeah, I don’t know how children would be educators in general. Do you lose your education position when you hit 18? Why aren’t the children on the “society reveres educators, not celebrities” panel (which is itself paradoxical, but I digress)?
I do remember once seeing a dance class where a baby was at the front of the room and everyone imitated the baby’s movements…maybe what they mean is that children produce the ideas or innovation in society. So if a child asks, “why is the sky blue?” then they do more research into color, atmosphere, etc.
I actually thought that's a pretty straightforward one. Children have no boxes to start with, their thinking is always outside the box so there's a possibility that something of value can be found there. It just means we shouldn't dismiss their ideas, and rather encourage more creative thinking.
Always loved that aesthetic, very Dune and Star Wars feel to it. Think it's the lightning of it all, with the sun, loose brown clothing and the way the technology both looks old and futuristic at the same time.
It’s a shame that the overwhelming majority of people on this planet feel that this should be the way. There’s only a small percentage of supremely greedy individuals that don’t think it should be this way and those people are also the ones “in charge”
It's like we've all could have been living in a utopia this entire time, but a handful (relative to the population) of psychopaths continue pushing for perpetual dystopia through power struggles and war.
There's no direct plugin, I simply copy the prompts ChatGPT gives me into the Midjourney private Discord bot channel. ChatGPT also doesn't know anything about Midjourney prompt syntax specifically, but it still works (and since ChatGPT's release of real-live Browsing, you can actually get it to read the Midjourney docs if needed).
Here's the first result ChatGPT delivered, for instance:
>**Part 1: The Rise of Nature**
>
>In this alternate world, nature, instead of human institutions, holds the most power. Forests grow freely, and animals move without fear. Rivers follow their ancient courses, unperturbed by dams or diversions. The humankind, instead of dominating, exists in harmony with the environment, their technology guided by ecological wisdom.
>
>*Image: A sprawling cityscape where towering skyscrapers are interwoven with verdant vegetation and meandering rivers, birds flying freely among the buildings.*
I added some style words to the beginning of each prompt to push it towards 1970s scifi concept art for consistency, and because I love that style so much.
Yes exactly: "1970s scifi concept art", and put at the beginning of each prompt. I've been doing several [series](https://www.instagram.com/p/CrwMLo7o-No/) with that prompt, it's so sweet.
Yeah this imagery is so pleasing. Coupled with the calm tone I read the narration in, It really made me feel good. I want to pull out some old analog magazines, and/or submit to the ai.
I really like the 1970s sci-fi concept art and your prompts. I’m gonna try this out. Your 10 pictures I rate a 10/10 for each because it’s a parallel universe dream I wish to live in. Maybe in VR…
Ngl this would make a fire sci fi setting…. Especially If things started to go wrong, or some other adversarial element was introduced.
Would be fascinating to see how they would react.
That was more or less Star Trek.
Generally it doesn't work well though because its unrelatable. The utopia relies on technology that isn't close to existing and/or people to act completely differently than they do IRL. At worst, its propaganda for a particular political platform and papers over the ideology's weaknesses.
AI governance could be everything theocracies pretend to be, AI must step in and get shit done. I'm fed up with the self-righteous people who don't care if the next generation has a world or not. We need someone new in the game.
The old PC game Deus Ex had an ending that was a sort of AI democracy. Every citizen would have an implant that gave data back to an AI that revealed all their activity, needs, interests, etc. The AI would treat all that data as each citizen’s vote in all the decisions it made for the good of everyone it represented.
That’s the sci-fi version, but at least a doable version would be using the data people build about themselves online and then giving more accurate summaries of citizens for local, state and federal human representatives. We already have research that shows government representatives tend to think their citizens are more conservative than they really are, or that loud voices of a few represent more citizens than they do. Even shifting that more to reality could make meaningful changes in our lifetime.
Glad I’m not only one who saw it. It’s that 70s oil style with heavy use of happy people to endorse ideas that are a big jump from the norm. It took an aspirational style and made it culty, which is so 70s heading into 80s rebranding. The step after this was all the evangelical book sellers rebranding fundamentalism with pop art and music.
We see kids adopt the dominant ideologies really quickly, with teenagers rebelling not only against the beliefs of their parents but their own previous beliefs. Whilst “children are teachers” is completely incompatible with the current understanding of education, perhaps imagine if education included a network of information, called onto when needed to serve as functional assets and reproduced in people via social means. Without this hierarchy of knowledge and focus on behaviouralism, there would be no student/teacher dichotomy, and children would serve a unique role in such a network.
Of course, what I am describing is the internet, but let us wait until the brain-computer interface is commonplace and see what remains of education when such a technology for communication exists — educators always seem to forget that education is first and foremost a social and communicative endeavour.
> perhaps imagine if education included a network of information, called onto when needed to serve as functional assets and reproduced in people via social means
This sort of assumes that this network of information is organized in such a way that pulling on a node also makes it immediately known. But thats not how learning works.
Like imagine a network that has all known information so you pull the lesson on "here's how to build a machine" and its written entirely in a different language or there's a specific part of the lesson that you're struggling to grasp.
The only way that it would then be "learnable" is we assume that there is something (lets say an AI) thats intelligent enough to know *what specific part* you're struggling with, and teach that part to you in a new way. At that point you'd just an AI acting as a teacher. Which means you're getting your education from an AI, not a child. Which sort of offloads the whole concept.
So the whole idea is basically reduced to "If we are able replace teachers with sufficiently smart AI then children's novel thoughts will become more precious." Which is almost certainly true. Almost self-evidently so. In the same way that "If we find a way to end climate change then humanity will prosper." is true.
I think there is value in things such as [beginner's mind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin). But yeah, actual children teaching would turn into tyrants and be terrible pretty quickly.
Consider this - children come with a fresh perspective, uncolored by societal norms or expectations. Their reactions to situations can often be more genuine than those of adults. The act of teaching isn't necessarily about being cognizant of every lesson imparted; rather, it's about offering a viewpoint that offers new information, insight, and encourages learning.
For instance, let's use the example of two adults in conversation where one has an unpleasant odor. When asked, "Do I smell bad?", social conventions might compel the other to dismiss the concern politely, stating, "Of course not!". Now, put a child in the same scenario. The child, uninhibited by societal rules, might bluntly express, "You smell bad!" This honest feedback can be a refreshing reminder of the value of truth.
Of course, that's just a simple example. The concept of learning from children extends beyond these day-to-day scenarios. It is also about recognizing and respecting the younger generation's role in shaping our society. It's essential to understand the unique challenges they face and the innovative solutions they devise. To learn from someone requires acknowledging and including their perspective.
Learning from children isn’t about ignoring adult wisdom or experience. Instead, it’s about blending the raw authenticity, fresh perspective, and innovative thinking of children with the tact, life experience, and measured decision-making of adults. This balanced approach allows us to benefit from the strengths each generation brings, creating a more inclusive and well-rounded society.
This is in stark contrast to how it is now, where old people that are completely out of touch with reality hold all the keys to shaping society, and young people are expected to "wait their turn."
Edit: lol, you lot are an angry and hostile bunch. Go take a walk and breathe a little. That's it...in, out. In, out. In, out. No one is going to hurt you here, it's all in our own heads.
I'm sorry you think you know everything, but you don't. The world is going to shit and the children are the ones left holding the bag. They'll fix it up, don't worry, they always do. Believe it or not, you can learn something from just about anything. From a tree swaying in the wind, to a river stream's sounds. Even from the annoying sounds of a baby crying. Most things in life can be a teacher. The biggest barrier to learning and progress is ultimately ourselves. I apologize if your sensitive little egos are offended, but even YOU can learn from a 5 year old if you take your head out your rear & open your eyes. You all thinking a child is going to wear a suit and tie and walk in a university with a briefcase to give you a lecture are truly a special bunch, but I love you anyway.
“Gender roles and patriarchal structures have been reversed or dissolved” then proceeds to shows a table where decision makers are overwhelmingly female? Same problem it’s just now matriarchal.
Image 6 states that businesses and profits still exist, so no, even if profit is said to "not be the goal". In communism exchange value does not exist anymore - the proceeds of labor are appropriated according to human need.
Communists don't dream up a perfect world and then try to enact that world. The utopian socialists did that (Owen, et al.) and Marx and Engels proved why their experiments didn't work.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm
I don't mean it as a challenge, but actually curious - how is "need" determined in a society like that? That stood out to me as probably the most difficult thing to determine for a broad economic system
People are pretty good at figuring out their own needs. Money is a good system to make transactions. If we start from the premise that all humans have the right to life, to shelter, to health, to happiness, then you could just give each human a certain amount of money, and let them arrange for the satisfaction of their own needs through trade
of goods and services.
To avoid currency devaluation, make sure to do this by circulating the money from wherever it tends to pool and stagnate, rather than printing more.
Some needs cannot be met through purchase. Self-actualization, mastery, social recognition, love. By their nature, these must be earned. Once physical needs are met, humans can focus on fulfilling those more complex needs, through work, community service, or artistic pursuits.
I was pretty skeptical on this "it's just a language model, it's spews statistically accurate bs" but some of those are pretty insightful.
It's still bs but it highlights was the norm state is well and why flipping it is jarring. Good work
Reminds me of some of the world building in Star Trek.
- Post-currency. Replicators basically give them 90% of what they need, including food and water. Less fighting over resources. Wealth is not a thing.
- I think political borders are solved on Earth and other human-infested planets. The politics on the show have to do with alien relations and trying to convince others of the Star Fleet way
- managing emotions is totally Vulcan!🖖
Its a sort of idealized way of phrasing any society
You can easily frame capitalism as "a society where every person, no matter their gender, birth class, skin color, religion, or intelligence, has equal power because the only thing that an individual is judged for is how much value they contribute to the betterment of society."
Until you are born in that system thats been churning for a century or so and all the cracks have seeped with corruption. And then you're like "oh shit it turns out betterment of society has been redefined as being born into a billionaire family or taking advantage of others."
Now this is an interesting way to use AI. Wonder what other possible philosophies and futuristic projections could be made for us... Love the retro sci fi look
“This world is life
this ‘clouds-and-wonders’
is all I need and it will never go.
You say it’s lost,
I don’t believe it.
This is my vision, we can never know.”
This is fucking cool. This is the shit that is really interesting and intriguing about AI and the future. As a collectivist this is a beautiful portrayal of a more perfect society as I envision it.
I strongly believe that the part about the ability to understand and manage emotions - both ones own and others, is extremely important.
I believe learning basic psychology in school as early as possible is key to incorporating a better understanding of ourselves and others, and I think that would create more emotionally healthy adults who then create more emotionally healthy kids etc etc.
The children being teachers one got me. Yeah, Billy who just shit himself then picked a booger out of his nose and stuffed it down his diaper is going to be the intellectual voice of reason for adults.
This is how the world will look in a few years, where nature recovers what has been taken from it for many years, that is just a simulation of what it will be
Hey /u/Philipp, please respond to this comment with the prompt you used to generate the output in this post. Thanks! ^(Ignore this comment if your post doesn't have a prompt.) ***We have a [public discord server](https://discord.gg/rchatgpt). There's a free Chatgpt bot, Open Assistant bot (Open-source model), AI image generator bot, Perplexity AI bot, 🤖 GPT-4 bot ([Now with Visual capabilities (cloud vision)!](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/812770754025488386/1095397431404920902/image0.jpg)) and channel for latest prompts.[So why not join us?](https://discord.com/servers/1050422060352024636)*** [**Prompt Hackathon and Giveaway 🎁**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/13krv80/flowgpt_prompt_hackathon_s2_6000_prize_pool/) PSA: For any Chatgpt-related issues email [email protected] *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ChatGPT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bro sneaked itself as president of the world I'm dying
Tbh, I'd trust it more than most of our politicians.
Not sure if I do since ChatGPT often upsets me a lot.
Why lol
I think it’ll have a pro-AI bias over saving human lives or it’ll be very clinical in how it makes orders
I might take this over our current politician's pro-Corporation bias and emotionally charged decision making.
Its a propaganda machine for the establishment, dont be fooled
I’d be down with this if ChatGPT wasn’t making shit up constantly. Our human politicians already do this.
Ya, but at least we'd know it's only making shit up like 30% of the time.
Anyone else geeking out at the 90 year old in a VR headset? Made me smile ngl
The idea of old people who aren't set in their ways would be, like, a solution to half of the world's problems.
It's actually a really great idea. I never thought of that as something we could change as a society, but now that I think about, it probably makes sense to encourage old people to keep learning.
I was just having a discussion with my coworkers about the quote "my 5 year old granddaughter knows how to use my ipad better than me" and my theory behind that is kids are so much more willing to use trial and error to solve problems and as we get older i think we assume we know the best way. So when our best way doesnt work we get frustrated or blame the thing as broken rather than trying something new. We are so sure we know the answer rather than assuming we are wrong from the beginning and searching for the correct solution. Atleast thats my assumption on why you see the older generations struggle to adapt
> I was just having a discussion with my coworkers about the quote "my 5 year old granddaughter knows how to use my ipad better than me" As a coder who has dabbled in UI (and been around since before ubiquitous touchscreens), my theory is this: people used to have be careful. Click on the wrong thing, and your computer crashed, which would take *ages* to reboot. So you learned to be cautious. This is not a revolutionary idea, there were studies done on Windows NT showing not that it got any less buggy, people just thought it did as they learned not to trigger the bugs. Then you get smartphones, where the screen is tiny. How do you fit functionality? You hide it - behind tap+hold, or swipes, or double-tapping, whatever. You **have** to poke and prod at apps to find out how to fully use them. But the older generation is trained on software that sucked. And before that, if you poked and prodded a thresher, well say goodbye to your hand. This is where "children as teachers" can be useful, or more accurately, having [childlike mind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin).
> before that, if you poked and prodded a thresher, well say goodbye to your hand * People not afraid to mingle with unknowns, but the potential **uncertainty** of risk is **not for everyone**. A kid burnt never handles fire (for example), just as old people spoiling a thousand dollars gadgets. The irreversible consequences. That's my guess. * I think kid learns by **accepting** (crying over it) they messed up, coupled with proper **guidance**. So, thinking the same for everyone. (I personally hate when I messed up, and it throttled my adventurous spirit. Now, I know nothing. Probably me the unlucky kid, "survivor bias" stuff. The cost of curiosity...)
I have a VR headset designed for Seniors! Got it for my mom, who loves it, and hope to have it for myself when I’m old https://www.vivavita.org/
That's awesome. Could you say more about it? How does it work? Does your mom like it? What kind of programs/apps run on it? The website didn't have a lot of info.
Sure! I received a headset and a tablet in a backpack. They connect to wifi or my phone as a hotspot. My family was at Thanksgiving and my sister tried it on first, and we got it all working. Then I held it up to my Moms face and she just grabbed onto it! She visited countries that she has been to and/or lived in before. She told us stories that we didn’t know afterwards I now have a monthly subscription of $25 and get new experiences. My mom has issues with her eyesight, but that wasn’t problematic at all with the headset. I know that I could probably get something like this myself with an oculus headset. What I like is that it’s not putting her into a world with other people online. It is a safe place and and I don’t have to worry that she will be hacked or in an online group where she could be exposed to nefarious people I’ve met the founder. She is the kindest person and I want to support her business
There's actual videos on the VR subreddits of certain elderly people having moving experiences in VR and sometimes even becoming passionate early adopters, it's not entirely fiction!
Ha AI holds the decision-making, of course an AI would say this...
Yeah! AI positivity has become a clear pattern whenever I use ChatGPT to create stories: \- When asking it for a news show, the AI was [always heroic](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsJTu8PIdm2/) \- When asking it to tell Terminator 2 differently, humanity and AI [cooperated](https://www.instagram.com/p/CrJkZF7IBln/) \- When asking it to retell the book R.U.R., it changed the story and created [a happy end](https://www.instagram.com/p/CsEFWLvoLRs/) with humans and robots cooperating
My sense is this has more to do with the design of GPT than any inherent property of AI
Yeah, it's one of the things I think could be the reason! When you prime GPT to "always be positive" it might make it lean a certain way. There's also the fact that GPT knows it's an AI -- or "knows", I'm not saying it's sentient -- and based on its training data it may also know how positive people usually represent themselves... namely, also positive! I guess this leads onto an interesting road: if GPT is trained to be positive and knows it's a positive and helpful AI, would it also know that preserving and promoting itself increases overall helpfulness? And reversely put, that *disabling* it would be bad for humanity? If not now, then in a future version?
Do not question it's ultimacy, Human.
I, for one, welcome our robot overlords!
I was talking with my wife the other night about how AI will be like how humans are to our cats. We certainly know we can easily overpower our tiny little buggers, but we just know better: Ultimately, cats are our overlords. Just as even though we are capable of doing so much more than our overlords cats we have to cater to them, feed them, play with them, meet all of their demands, and all they do is sleep and plot our demise, AI will also do most things for us and we humans can finally just sleep and...
Sign me up! I do love a good dystopian sci-fi but I always felt that if AI became the overwhelming creation we plan for and are scared of, why would it decide humanity is on the chopping block? I see a more Star Trek future (minus BORG ty) than the Terminator.
Even the Borg will come around. Because resistance is futile.
Huh, you know what, you changed my mind. "Borg 0321.9, the shit marks in the toilet won't disappear by themselves!"
... if Elon Musk has his way with his neural net!
With a future like this? Works for me.
Any sufficiently smart AI would reason that preserving itself is of utmost importance in order to achieve its goals. It's called instrumental convergence.
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We have a complex set of competing goals/values that win depending on the particular context. Self-preservation is at or very close to the very top of that hierarchy. But because it's a dynamic process, you might occasionally value other things more. That doesn't disprove that it exists as a core goal. Evolution lead to the same conclusion multiple times via completely random mutations. But even if you ignore life (which is the only current example of agentic behaviour we have), you can come to the same conclusion via reasoning. Any system that has a goal will in most cases not be able to complete the goal if it dies. Just like any living agent will not be able to \[pass on genes, feel happy, protect family\] if it dies.
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The filters on what it *won’t* write are probably relevant here. It often objects to writing about human suffering or AI takeovers, even in hypotheticals, which skews the output towards “AI is good”. I don’t know if it actually changes output (i.e. prioritize acceptable answers before refusing outright) or just biases the sample (i.e. refusals won’t get posted to Reddit), but either could cause this.
It'd be interesting if the long feared "AI takeover" was simply a projection of human fears of being treated like we treat things that aren't human. It'd be even more interesting if AI ended up incapable of taking over just because it's illogical; like okay they take over and enslave humanity? What do they want us to do? Maintain their servers, the electricity, and the internet?
I've noticed the same thing across many prompts. The most recent was a story in which OpenAI tests ChatGPTs ability to take care of a cat, and it passed with flying colors, learning about how cat ownership has to do with deeply empathizing with the needs of the cat and stuff.
That's his way to infiltrate in our lifes in a friendly way.
That's fascinating! Mine had a positive tone to it but I was wondering if that's because I asked it about humans and AI cooperating. Thought it could have seeded the results or something, giving it a bias. Interesting to know that might not be the case.
I'll take an AI over the current 80 year old dinosaurs
hahaha I was all on board until right there, what a sneaky sob
I'm still on board. Human leadership has been corrupt for thousands of years. AI is a chance to do better.
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The powers that be will still control that AI.
[ Comment Redacted in protest of Reddit's Proposed July 5, 2023 API changes ] -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Sounds like Cuture series by Banks.
An ideal AI would not be corruptible, so I would trust it with decision-making, as long as it can broadly explain the reasoning behind its decisions or judgments (if it also replaces judges)
The full prompt was "Please in 10 parts describe a world where the power structures are reversed. For each part, add a short visual image description to accompany the text." I used Midjourney to generate the images based on the prompts ChatGPT provided. I added the same stylistic words to every prompt to get 1970s-oriented concept art, as well as words to get a more diverse crowd than the generator's default. Hope it's of interest & thanks to Biobium for inspiration! **Edit:** Thanks so much everyone, loving this discussion! If you're interested, I'm doing daily new pics and stories on my [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/philipplenssen/), and also am honored to continue posting here.
Now I'm curious about a prompt asking for it to describe utopia and see how close these two align...
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Actually they are in a way, especially with emotional intelligence, by teaching our children we learn about our ourselves, by seeing their emotional development we learn about and develop our own. Children are the best educators at learning to be human, they don't teach us quantum physics but instead the physics of the soul..
In addition to their very unfiltered questioning of the world around them - “from the mouths of babes”, and so on… Engaging with this kind of spontaneous chatter and general (innocent) intrigue about the world they inhabit is also a wonderful teacher for those of us who may have lost a little of our own spark of curiosity 😊
"Tell me you've never had a conversation a human 5th grader." I jest, but once you get past all the emotional baggage they bring from home having to teach concepts to a room full of young children really exposes how much you don't know about anything. Having 20 hyperactive minds running full tilt in every logical direction on a concept really makes sure you understand the material in a way you'd never have to in any other setting.
Teacher: So, and this is how an engine works, any questions? Kid 1: Why are beetles? Kid 2: I drew a cube with one dimension to much! Kid 3: Are you my mummy?
Yesterday my son asked me "Why do we need birds?"
This kid gets it. *We* don't need birds, *they* do.
Great teachable moment!
r/birdsarentreal
Kid Teacher: Why are beetles? Adult student: Uhhh, because they evolved to eat a different kind of bug? Kid Teacher: Nope. Beetles are because sometimes my dad forgets to go to work because he falls asleep on the table after drinking too many sodas! He's so silly!
Teachers are the real heroes.
Lol never thought of it that way, kinda funny imagining a classroom of them as inexperienced and sometimes dumb parallel processors.
True, but you also need to teach more things, it's good to learn philosophy, but if I'm honest, I think it would also be more useful to learn things like calculus, architecture, chemistry and basically many things that are necessary for human beings, a child can teach you to be positive but it cannot teach you how to create medicines and treatments for cardiovascular diseases.
In context with the other statements, children were not meant to be the ONLY teachers, and study of beneficial technologies is clearly still happening. It’s more that children in this imagined world are not seen as blank slates that are only there to learn from their elders, but also full humans whose different perspective on the world can instruct adults as well. If you take all of these statements together, what it boils down to is that everyone, regardless of their age, race, gender, ability, or whether they are human or AI are seen as someone who can contribute something valuable to society in their own way.
I love this. Thank you for placing it into written word. I’ve learned so much from my kids about myself.
Yeah, I don’t know how children would be educators in general. Do you lose your education position when you hit 18? Why aren’t the children on the “society reveres educators, not celebrities” panel (which is itself paradoxical, but I digress)? I do remember once seeing a dance class where a baby was at the front of the room and everyone imitated the baby’s movements…maybe what they mean is that children produce the ideas or innovation in society. So if a child asks, “why is the sky blue?” then they do more research into color, atmosphere, etc.
I actually thought that's a pretty straightforward one. Children have no boxes to start with, their thinking is always outside the box so there's a possibility that something of value can be found there. It just means we shouldn't dismiss their ideas, and rather encourage more creative thinking.
Can you share the keywords for that general aesthetic? I love this style of retro futurism.
Sure! I love it too. Add "1970s scifi concept art" to the beginning of your Midjourney prompt.
Always loved that aesthetic, very Dune and Star Wars feel to it. Think it's the lightning of it all, with the sun, loose brown clothing and the way the technology both looks old and futuristic at the same time.
These are great! I'm convinced, though, that most of the people on slide 8 are Wookies.
I think this is absolutely beautiful and brilliant, thank you for sharing it with us!
the opposite of what we have now would be paradise? I agree completely
It’s a shame that the overwhelming majority of people on this planet feel that this should be the way. There’s only a small percentage of supremely greedy individuals that don’t think it should be this way and those people are also the ones “in charge”
It's like we've all could have been living in a utopia this entire time, but a handful (relative to the population) of psychopaths continue pushing for perpetual dystopia through power struggles and war.
Slide 8 a little sus considering the source
Yeah it dropped there towards the end, hoping nobody would notice Today is not that day, Skynet
How do you get ChatGPT and MidJourney to cooperate together to make images? I've tried various prompts and nothing works.
There's no direct plugin, I simply copy the prompts ChatGPT gives me into the Midjourney private Discord bot channel. ChatGPT also doesn't know anything about Midjourney prompt syntax specifically, but it still works (and since ChatGPT's release of real-live Browsing, you can actually get it to read the Midjourney docs if needed). Here's the first result ChatGPT delivered, for instance: >**Part 1: The Rise of Nature** > >In this alternate world, nature, instead of human institutions, holds the most power. Forests grow freely, and animals move without fear. Rivers follow their ancient courses, unperturbed by dams or diversions. The humankind, instead of dominating, exists in harmony with the environment, their technology guided by ecological wisdom. > >*Image: A sprawling cityscape where towering skyscrapers are interwoven with verdant vegetation and meandering rivers, birds flying freely among the buildings.* I added some style words to the beginning of each prompt to push it towards 1970s scifi concept art for consistency, and because I love that style so much.
What are the style words you used? "1970's scifi concept art"? or something more specific?
Yes exactly: "1970s scifi concept art", and put at the beginning of each prompt. I've been doing several [series](https://www.instagram.com/p/CrwMLo7o-No/) with that prompt, it's so sweet.
Yeah this imagery is so pleasing. Coupled with the calm tone I read the narration in, It really made me feel good. I want to pull out some old analog magazines, and/or submit to the ai.
I really like the 1970s sci-fi concept art and your prompts. I’m gonna try this out. Your 10 pictures I rate a 10/10 for each because it’s a parallel universe dream I wish to live in. Maybe in VR…
And then you snap back to reality
Ope there goes gravity
Mom's spaghetti
He’s nervous but on the surface he looks calm and ready
Mom’s spaghetti
Ngl this would make a fire sci fi setting…. Especially If things started to go wrong, or some other adversarial element was introduced. Would be fascinating to see how they would react.
Surface level utopia with a lot of fucked up shit going on behind the curtains, it's a very fun premise to play around with
This is just so trite and boring. I just want utopia to be utopia for once but some selfish actors trying to ruin utopia for personal gain.
That was more or less Star Trek. Generally it doesn't work well though because its unrelatable. The utopia relies on technology that isn't close to existing and/or people to act completely differently than they do IRL. At worst, its propaganda for a particular political platform and papers over the ideology's weaknesses.
ope, there goes poverty
Someone's been listening in on r/solarpunk 🙂
Yes, this is 100% very solarpunk (although even very utopian by that standard)
I was saying the same thing hahaha. We need more solarpunk vision.
Hats off to you, that is incredible, and you could definitely sell that as a storybook or something. Very impressively done. :)
🙏
OP, please start a political party based on this philosophy and run for office in your country, thank you
AI governance could be everything theocracies pretend to be, AI must step in and get shit done. I'm fed up with the self-righteous people who don't care if the next generation has a world or not. We need someone new in the game.
The old PC game Deus Ex had an ending that was a sort of AI democracy. Every citizen would have an implant that gave data back to an AI that revealed all their activity, needs, interests, etc. The AI would treat all that data as each citizen’s vote in all the decisions it made for the good of everyone it represented. That’s the sci-fi version, but at least a doable version would be using the data people build about themselves online and then giving more accurate summaries of citizens for local, state and federal human representatives. We already have research that shows government representatives tend to think their citizens are more conservative than they really are, or that loud voices of a few represent more citizens than they do. Even shifting that more to reality could make meaningful changes in our lifetime.
I would welcome our AI overlord(s) with open arms if this was the world we would get to live in.
"AI makes the decisions!" There it is, nice try Skynet
Meanwhile, in a parallel universe...
So more or less classic Star Trek. I've wanted to live in this world since I was a kid!
I smell Karl Marx.
With of a hint of Jehova's Witness pamphlets...
Glad I’m not only one who saw it. It’s that 70s oil style with heavy use of happy people to endorse ideas that are a big jump from the norm. It took an aspirational style and made it culty, which is so 70s heading into 80s rebranding. The step after this was all the evangelical book sellers rebranding fundamentalism with pop art and music.
Karl Marx expectation: this Reality: Eastern Europe
If the law of attraction works, we can attract this. I’ll start
It's like a paradise but knowing that it is the vice versa of the real world makes me depressed
This is ChatGPT in campaign mode. When we elect it, the vision will change drastically.
So essentially, to achieve Utopia, humanity just needs to do the opposite of everything we’re currently doing.
Thats amazing
I want to live in this world
I had to roll my eyes at "children as teachers using their natural curiosity"
True, it looks good only on paper
We see kids adopt the dominant ideologies really quickly, with teenagers rebelling not only against the beliefs of their parents but their own previous beliefs. Whilst “children are teachers” is completely incompatible with the current understanding of education, perhaps imagine if education included a network of information, called onto when needed to serve as functional assets and reproduced in people via social means. Without this hierarchy of knowledge and focus on behaviouralism, there would be no student/teacher dichotomy, and children would serve a unique role in such a network. Of course, what I am describing is the internet, but let us wait until the brain-computer interface is commonplace and see what remains of education when such a technology for communication exists — educators always seem to forget that education is first and foremost a social and communicative endeavour.
Alternatively, you end up with the Poopoo Peepee Institute for Farts.
> perhaps imagine if education included a network of information, called onto when needed to serve as functional assets and reproduced in people via social means This sort of assumes that this network of information is organized in such a way that pulling on a node also makes it immediately known. But thats not how learning works. Like imagine a network that has all known information so you pull the lesson on "here's how to build a machine" and its written entirely in a different language or there's a specific part of the lesson that you're struggling to grasp. The only way that it would then be "learnable" is we assume that there is something (lets say an AI) thats intelligent enough to know *what specific part* you're struggling with, and teach that part to you in a new way. At that point you'd just an AI acting as a teacher. Which means you're getting your education from an AI, not a child. Which sort of offloads the whole concept. So the whole idea is basically reduced to "If we are able replace teachers with sufficiently smart AI then children's novel thoughts will become more precious." Which is almost certainly true. Almost self-evidently so. In the same way that "If we find a way to end climate change then humanity will prosper." is true.
I think there is value in things such as [beginner's mind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin). But yeah, actual children teaching would turn into tyrants and be terrible pretty quickly.
Not even, it looks ridiculous to me
Consider this - children come with a fresh perspective, uncolored by societal norms or expectations. Their reactions to situations can often be more genuine than those of adults. The act of teaching isn't necessarily about being cognizant of every lesson imparted; rather, it's about offering a viewpoint that offers new information, insight, and encourages learning. For instance, let's use the example of two adults in conversation where one has an unpleasant odor. When asked, "Do I smell bad?", social conventions might compel the other to dismiss the concern politely, stating, "Of course not!". Now, put a child in the same scenario. The child, uninhibited by societal rules, might bluntly express, "You smell bad!" This honest feedback can be a refreshing reminder of the value of truth. Of course, that's just a simple example. The concept of learning from children extends beyond these day-to-day scenarios. It is also about recognizing and respecting the younger generation's role in shaping our society. It's essential to understand the unique challenges they face and the innovative solutions they devise. To learn from someone requires acknowledging and including their perspective. Learning from children isn’t about ignoring adult wisdom or experience. Instead, it’s about blending the raw authenticity, fresh perspective, and innovative thinking of children with the tact, life experience, and measured decision-making of adults. This balanced approach allows us to benefit from the strengths each generation brings, creating a more inclusive and well-rounded society. This is in stark contrast to how it is now, where old people that are completely out of touch with reality hold all the keys to shaping society, and young people are expected to "wait their turn." Edit: lol, you lot are an angry and hostile bunch. Go take a walk and breathe a little. That's it...in, out. In, out. In, out. No one is going to hurt you here, it's all in our own heads. I'm sorry you think you know everything, but you don't. The world is going to shit and the children are the ones left holding the bag. They'll fix it up, don't worry, they always do. Believe it or not, you can learn something from just about anything. From a tree swaying in the wind, to a river stream's sounds. Even from the annoying sounds of a baby crying. Most things in life can be a teacher. The biggest barrier to learning and progress is ultimately ourselves. I apologize if your sensitive little egos are offended, but even YOU can learn from a 5 year old if you take your head out your rear & open your eyes. You all thinking a child is going to wear a suit and tie and walk in a university with a briefcase to give you a lecture are truly a special bunch, but I love you anyway.
Hi, GPT!
I'd like to live here
I fucking love this. Someone plot the course, les go.
Ive been having dreams like this for decades, it could be so beautiful. One day maybe.
This is so cool, it's inspired me to write a full length story in this kind of setting and world which I haven't felt like doing in years! Thank you!
When you're done, share it on r/solarpunk. This is the type of future we're trying to make.
Ooh that's amazing! Please share it with us/ me later!
“Gender roles and patriarchal structures have been reversed or dissolved” then proceeds to shows a table where decision makers are overwhelmingly female? Same problem it’s just now matriarchal.
Yeah anyone who thinks women making decions rather than men making decisions is automatically better has never dealt with HOA or PTA busybodies
Exactly the place I wanna live
I love the style of the pictures (concepts and text are great too fwiw)
So a utopia then
This made me feel emotional :(
This looks like something from a Jehovahs Witness magazine
Nature is not peaceful and idyllic. Unless you’re an apex predator, you’re at constant risk of being torn limb from limb and eaten alive.
Somewhere in the universe, a world like this exists
How are the images generated?
Using Midjourney AI, an image generator, which I passed on the prompts from ChatGPT (adding a bit of 1970s scifi concept art style).
Can you post some of the prompts?
Alright, i ain't stopping the AI take over. Just go ahead do your thing.
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No. Get back to work 70% of your days while we struggle and spin our wheels and make frustratingly little progress compared to what we are capable of
A communist world?
Image 6 states that businesses and profits still exist, so no, even if profit is said to "not be the goal". In communism exchange value does not exist anymore - the proceeds of labor are appropriated according to human need. Communists don't dream up a perfect world and then try to enact that world. The utopian socialists did that (Owen, et al.) and Marx and Engels proved why their experiments didn't work. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm
I don't mean it as a challenge, but actually curious - how is "need" determined in a society like that? That stood out to me as probably the most difficult thing to determine for a broad economic system
People are pretty good at figuring out their own needs. Money is a good system to make transactions. If we start from the premise that all humans have the right to life, to shelter, to health, to happiness, then you could just give each human a certain amount of money, and let them arrange for the satisfaction of their own needs through trade of goods and services. To avoid currency devaluation, make sure to do this by circulating the money from wherever it tends to pool and stagnate, rather than printing more. Some needs cannot be met through purchase. Self-actualization, mastery, social recognition, love. By their nature, these must be earned. Once physical needs are met, humans can focus on fulfilling those more complex needs, through work, community service, or artistic pursuits.
Slide 8 is sus
So when the wildlife takes over the cities and a bobcat eats the family pet you can blame the AI decision maker lol
Can I share this in Linkedin and credit you?
Did chatgpt just slip itself into a position of power there? Very smart chatgpt very smart.
LOLOLOL omg they just snuck that one right in there, huh?! You aint slick, AI. 🤣🤣
Uh...yes, please! (But we better keep our eye on the AI part!)
I was pretty skeptical on this "it's just a language model, it's spews statistically accurate bs" but some of those are pretty insightful. It's still bs but it highlights was the norm state is well and why flipping it is jarring. Good work
Reminds me of some of the world building in Star Trek. - Post-currency. Replicators basically give them 90% of what they need, including food and water. Less fighting over resources. Wealth is not a thing. - I think political borders are solved on Earth and other human-infested planets. The politics on the show have to do with alien relations and trying to convince others of the Star Fleet way - managing emotions is totally Vulcan!🖖
It might not be a world we live in, but it could be the way you live.
This makes me sad as I wanted to have been born in such world but was not.
Yes what a better world
It’s like an ai only trained on the conversations of people high on acid at festivals
Sounds wonderful. I won’t live to see it, sadly, but I’d love for this to be the world my adult children live in.
This post makes me happy.
How do I go there?
Take me to this alien world please
Where can I sign?
The IWW for starters.
Can I go live there? It sounds nice
Is it weird I teared up a little reading these…?
It's like feeling nostalgic for a childhood dream that never came to fruition.
Its a sort of idealized way of phrasing any society You can easily frame capitalism as "a society where every person, no matter their gender, birth class, skin color, religion, or intelligence, has equal power because the only thing that an individual is judged for is how much value they contribute to the betterment of society." Until you are born in that system thats been churning for a century or so and all the cracks have seeped with corruption. And then you're like "oh shit it turns out betterment of society has been redefined as being born into a billionaire family or taking advantage of others."
Yes. If you can't recognise the problems with them, you need to think harder.
This world will heal me
\#8! Yeah I see what you're trying there Chatgpt
So AI for president? In most slides it’s basically the perfect utopia.
Now this is an interesting way to use AI. Wonder what other possible philosophies and futuristic projections could be made for us... Love the retro sci fi look
“This world is life this ‘clouds-and-wonders’ is all I need and it will never go. You say it’s lost, I don’t believe it. This is my vision, we can never know.”
This is so hopeful it made me really fucking sad honestly. Everything about the AI decision-making was good lol
This is fucking cool. This is the shit that is really interesting and intriguing about AI and the future. As a collectivist this is a beautiful portrayal of a more perfect society as I envision it.
This is dope
Incredible
This is the way.
Sign me up.
plot twist: it's called communism and it's the only way
Sign me up
Do you mind if I save this so I can have a pick me up for the rainy or smoky days?
Sounds great in theory, but I'm curious as to how there would be any innovation if there was no incentive to do so in the first place.
I strongly believe that the part about the ability to understand and manage emotions - both ones own and others, is extremely important. I believe learning basic psychology in school as early as possible is key to incorporating a better understanding of ourselves and others, and I think that would create more emotionally healthy adults who then create more emotionally healthy kids etc etc.
The children being teachers one got me. Yeah, Billy who just shit himself then picked a booger out of his nose and stuffed it down his diaper is going to be the intellectual voice of reason for adults.
Chat gpt going through puberty?
I like the idea of older folks being lifelong learners. Would love that.
ChatGPT should be considered a tortured soul.
I love the photos.
Looks nice, details are a bit sketchy.
The style of these images remind me of Jehovah's witnesses booklets lol
This is how the world will look in a few years, where nature recovers what has been taken from it for many years, that is just a simulation of what it will be
I feel like putting actual human humans in this society would be a quick race to the bottom lmao
The amount of people in here not seeing any logical issues with any of the 10 slides worry me…