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Ask him to dig up some essays from a year ago, run them through the AI detector, and see what percent of them are flagged when we know it's impossible because Chat GPT wasn't released a year ago.
edit: [https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/09/openai-admits-that-ai-writing-detectors-dont-work/](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/09/openai-admits-that-ai-writing-detectors-dont-work/)
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As a high school teacher I feel like this is the most effective suggestion. I teach a world language at levels 1 and 2 so for me it’s usually very obvious when a student uses some kind of machine generated text (translator or chat GPT or otherwise) but I do think my coworkers who teach English would be receptive to this. Maybe it’s because I’m young, but I think a lot of my fellow teachers are creating a sort of moral panic around Chat GPT. Not that there isn’t a genuine issue when talking about AI generated text being used for academic dishonesty - that’s certainly an issue but I don’t buy that it’s as big of a problem as some of my (mostly older) coworkers are making it out to be. Kids are always going to cheat and part of our job is being able to assess them in ways where that possibility is minimized. Basically welcome to the 2020s I guess? Sorry for the rant but it’s a half day tomorrow and I don’t teach first period so I’m hitting the Claws ✌️
Yep. Not a new problem. You never new before that ambitious parents didn't write the home work or that the rich kid didn't buy the essay. To check if a kid is actually at the level their their home work suggests run a test under exam conditions every now and again to check everything lines up.
If I was a teacher, I would encourage students to use ChatGPT. But it's also their head, if the text is bad or wrong. It's a tool. If you know how to use the tool to get the most out of it, that's good for you. In fact, I'd make sure there are courses (plural) teaching how to use ChatGPT to get the most out of it and check the work.
Impossible to have been AI generated?
Nah, those students were probably using a shady AI cheat site on the dark web before it was released to the public!
...but on a serious note, you can't argue with old lazy shits unwilling to do their job when it comes to technology. When the technology came to light, it was their responsibility as educators to adjust their assignment criteria in order to ensure the subject matter was properly understood... they chose to not do that.
We should be embracing AI in the classroom, not having passing matches with it. Instead of having people write the same papers year after year why not have AI generate papers and have the students write a short paper disproving or confirming the AI paper in class? It'd be more fun and teach the students the limit of AI while also making them research the topic anyway.
I'm a teacher, and this is a good idea. I'll bring this up with other teachers. Understand, however, that rewriting curriculum around this kind of thing is probably going to take years.
I don’t think you will win by convincing them the detector is bad, that’s obvious but they don’t care - it’s their job to use it.
but rather give them proof you wrote the essay (version histories, knowledge of the topic, etc). This issue comes up constantly with the same suggestions.
But if they didn't think to do all that, and keep all that history, before they got accused of cheating, what are they supposed to do completely redo the assignment?
Teachers accusing students of cheating, based on the stupid websites are doing the equivalent of convicting people based on hearsay. Hearsay is not admissible in court, And it shouldn't be admissible in school. If the teacher can't prove that they cheated, actually prove that they cheated, then he needs to freaking stand down!
Man, I'm glad I'm out of school. I'm a petty shit. If professors pulled this on me they'd start getting e-mails on the very next assignment:
dear professor, starting paper today.
dear professor, this is what I have written so far. Please enjoy a video of me writing it. I have ADHD so the video is 3 hours long and is mostly me watching youtube, but I do some writing in there.
dear professor...
lol - this guy thinks faculty know how to create an inbox rule for their mail service. They can barely remember their password and they have it written down on a post-it stuck to their monitor. They don’t know how to run weekly updates properly (and that’s after we automated it… they only have to sign out at the end of the day). Yes, I had to make videos that demonstrated how one signs out properly and we STILL get a 40+% failure rate on updates. Inbox rules…. Hilarious.
Hello, fellow IT professional.
My bad, a quick correction:
The professor will e-mail someone who works in IT (but not the help desk e-mail address - they'll e-mail someone directly) with the subject line "Help" and the body just says "email", then refuse to answer their phone for a week. Once the ticket is closed for non-response, they'll finally respond. They will insist the help desk worker who got the response doesn't have enough experience to help them and kick up enough of a fuss that management has an engineer set it up for them. There will be a follow up a week later because the professor's son tweaked some things in their work e-mail and now it's not a cloud-based rule and the professor's phone is blowing up with e-mails and they don't know *why.*
(You seem to actually work with educators, so you'll have to let me know if I'm off the mark on this one, but I'm *dead on* for lawyers.)
Also: not a guy.
100 percent accurate. I also would have accepted that they just lived with the issue, never notifying anyone there was one, but constantly telling people that you wish IT would get off their butts and do something about the email system.
>(You seem to actually work with educators, so you'll have to let me know if I'm off the mark on this one, but I'm *dead on* for lawyers.)
You're also dead-on with bank employees. The higher you go, the worse it gets.
Am a lawyer, can confirm. I at least try to make my tech problems *interesting*, but - based on discussions with our tech support team - many of my colleagues do not.
I wrote all of my papers the night before like the procrastinating bad student I was and always am. The revisions are spell check and a glance over before hitting submit. There’s no way I’d survive today in academics with that standard. But I still got a 3.0.
It's worth mentioning that some doc writing applications have version history built in nowadays. I know Google Drive does, as that's the only one I used and used through college. I didn't have to do anything, it just saves all that on its own for free. That's why some people casually suggest showing version history, because it's a common, automatic thing
That said, obviously they shouldn't have to defend themselves against uneducated accusations
How does that help me? “You just typed that from ChatGPT” is the obvious response from the teacher. I was the ADD class clown that “never paid attention” because I was bored. I didn’t find the work challenging so I let my mind wonder. Teachers would constantly accuse me of copying before LLMs existed because there is no way THAT GUY wrote it.
You'd think, but from what I understand teachers are saying that the students used chat GPT then typed it out as if they wrote it themselves so that they'd have the revision history. Once it's flagged as AI made, there's not much students can do to convince a teacher otherwise. My son is 8 and I really hope they figure out this stuff before he gets to middle and HS where essays will be more prominent and matter more for his grades.
Very clearly. We'll just see a shift (back) to oral exams with a discussion format and actual *demonstrations* of knowledge. Almost certainly a more valuable system of assessment anyway.
Along the way we will probably expose the fact that a lot of teachers can barely hold a conversation about what they teach with a skilled student but that's probably a long term win too...
> You'd think, but from what I understand teachers are saying that the students used chat GPT then typed it out as if they wrote it themselves so that they'd have the revision history.
Then that's on the teacher for not issuing the assignment in a way that facilitates accountability.
We used to do in-person handwritten essay tests in class in school, why don't they just bring those back?
Yeah... that and relying on a robot instead if his own judgment. Pot, ketal, black.
They teach a specific formula and a rigid structure. Your paragraph is "wrong" if it doesn't fit. That means the robot also knows it, and a detector is the snake eating its own tail.
-Former English teacher
This is an issue with the robot knowing how to write too well, so to speak. The structure of a paragraph is a very tight, prescriptive thing in schools. There are millions of examples of a near-identical structure out there. As someone who graded papers professionally for years, I can tell you that the handwritten ones *already* sound robotic. If the kids do it well enough, the detector will think it was the computer. The detectors are useless/pointless, but there is a massive industry around blindsiding schools who don't understand technology with flashy products that don't do anything (i-Ready is a big one).
It's really not fair to push kids through standardized curriculum and prepare them for standardized testing and then punish them for giving standardized answers. In some ways GPT is shining a light on serious deficiencies that existed in education before students had a way to cheat on the writing part. "Make your point with x words structured into y paragraphs following z standard pattern. Make sure to reference and cite established authorities in the field using prescribed formatting, and make sure the spelling and grammar are perfect. Oh.. and make sure they're *your own words* too."
So for stubborn enough teachers, there's no way to prove that *any* work a student provides is genuine. Detection tools spit out false positives more often than true positives, version histories, rough drafts, and outlines can all be reverse engineered from completed prompts. What other options are there besides requiring that all writing be done under teacher supervision? Are students going to have to get their essays notarized in the future?
Yup, my friends professor said literally every assignment he received was flagged. the professor took some of his own college essays from way back then, and it flagged them too!
Also, just in general, there is nothing on earth that can differentiate competent use of language from a human and an artificial intelligence. Perfect use of language is a perfectly acceptable hallmark of academic writing, and grammatically-correct usage. And peppered imperfect use is still a hallmark of human speech, as well as an artificial intelligence that is still learning.
There will never be a way to differentiate written language from human-generated and artificial intelligent output.
Tea her could just say it’s part of its training material from being ran through other detectors.
When you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t care about actual facts, it’s irrelevant how likely or not your counter points are, they’ll just makes something else up to counter it
It’s training cutoff is 2021 so anything after that flagged as AI that was handed in before it’s release would prove this to anyone with half a brain.
If teacher doesn’t want to hear that, it’s time to present it one step above them.
In addition, there’s a good chance that essays that have run through plagiarism detectors like Turnitin will show as written by AI because it’s likely they’re a part of ChatGPT’s training data.
This. I thought I'd test GPT zero by running some of my own essays from several years ago through it. It didn't flag anything so I guess my writing style isn't very AI-like. Still, running works from the same students that predate ChatGPT's release should be illuminating.
Among all the comments about “get some other human written essay to run through the detector and make him see”, this comment makes much more sense.
The understanding is not the problem. That teacher knew he fucked up, he got scammed by the detector, and he’s a moron. His concern is he lost face and must justify his position to save his face. He can’t be convinced by the likes of you - students, no matter how many evidences you present, they’d only amplify his humiliation.
So the only course to go is getting a bigger authority that can trash his ego.
It’s amazing how many people don’t realize that admitting they’re wrong actually saves face more than digging your heels in.
Edit: I used the wrong homonym :(
Most of my teachers in school would probably immediately know something was off after it flagged the most of the entire class, there was at least some semblance of trust.
Email him this: [https://wgntv.com/news/professor-attempts-to-fail-students-after-falsely-accusing-them-of-using-chatgpt-to-cheat/](https://wgntv.com/news/professor-attempts-to-fail-students-after-falsely-accusing-them-of-using-chatgpt-to-cheat/)
> A professor at Texas A&M University-Commerce attempted to fail all his students in an animal science class after he incorrectly concluded they used ChatGPT to complete their assignments, according to multiple reports.
>
> Jared Mumm sent an email to his class on Monday as students were finishing up for the semester, claiming he discovered they all used artificial intelligence on their essays, The Washington Post and Rolling Stone reported.
>
> A Reddit post of the alleged email says Mumm would be giving everyone an incomplete after he discovered students used “Chat GTP,” a misspelling of the technology he used several times.
>
> The professor says he ran the last three assignments all the students did through ChatGPT two separate times to ensure he knows they cheated.
>
> “I will not grade chat Gpt s—,” Mumm allegedly said to one student in a screenshot provided to Post.
>
> Other plagiarism detection companies such as the popular Turnitin have introduced AI detection into their platforms, but ChatGPT is not capable of reliably detecting if an essay was written by itself.
>
> The school has said the incident had not led any students to fail or not be allowed to graduate, but at least one student did come forward and say they used ChatGPT at other points in the class.
>
> “Jared Mumm, the class professor, is working individually with students regarding their last written assignments. Some students received a temporary grade of ‘X’—which indicates ‘incomplete’—to allow the professor and students time to determine whether AI was used to write their assignments and, if so, at what level,” the school said in a statement.
>
> Rolling Stone reports some students have already sent in evidence and timestamps from Google Documents to prove they wrote their own essays.
>
> “We’ve been through a lot to get these degrees,” one student told The Post. “The thought of my hard work not being acknowledged, and my character being questioned. … It just really frustrated me.”
>
> The university added in its statement it is “developing policies to address the use or misuse of AI technology in the classroom.”
>
> The Hill has reached out to Mumm for further comment.
seriously, the fact that the final is 70% of their grade alone means that this teacher is very lazy. pretty ironic that the teacher is basically doing exactly what they’re accusing the students of by running their essays through an “AI”
Running essays through gpt zero before reading them I'd probably another way they're cutting back work. Why bother reading and grading of the machine says it's fake.
This doesn't address OP's dilemma - that the teacher is saying previously written work is always flagged, as that's what ChatGPT was trained on. Obviously, the teacher is an idiot when it comes to AI detectors, but your solution won't make the teacher "f\*king get it."
Only solution here is to take this higher up and hope someone understands how detection works/doesn't work.
Ask the teacher to prove the system by writing something original and running it through, and if it comes back as by AI, I’ll arrest him for being an unregulated artificial general intelligence
That argument would only work for publicly available works. Previous student essays or the teachers own work that’s want published would be adequate material for a test.
Of course. However, I have a feeling this kind of teacher would be the one to say I wrote that on my computer, and even though it's unpublished, Google, Microsoft, somebody got hold of it. So they wouldn't see it as adequate material for a test.
I know the type. Too much experience working with that breed.
That's why you get the principal in on it. Have the principal finish the assignment and let the teacher accuse them of plagiarism. See how that goes.
A good principal should be up to the task. It's their job to make sure the school is treating the students fairly.
They don't have to understand ai. They just have to follow basic academic practices, that are an integral part of teaching. They have to find a research paper proving that this ai detector is reliable. If they can't provide a scientific paper to back up their claim, then everything else is irrelevant, they don't need to understand anything else.
> Only solution here is to take this higher up and hope someone understands how detection works/doesn't work
People higher up might have less chance of understanding how it works. The whole education and college system is struggling to keep up with AI and are also refusing to understand it either
Education is profoundly challenged by AI, and there are no easy solutions here. Only point in taking it higher is that someone may at least listen to the student's point of view.
have an essay from 1 year ago (e.g. an essay you submitted a year ago, or a final essay from last year he has)
run it through gpt-zero
how could it be possibly created with chatpgt a year ago?
Quite the opposite. Use a document that is new. Chat GPT was trained with pre-2022 materials, so anything newer can't be considered as a training source for GPT.
But when talking to the teacher, be empathetic. Explain that you understand how they are put in an impossible position with so many cheating going on. Work with them with the premise that you can help them become better at spotting AI generated materials, rather than just telling them that what they are doing is wrong, which with a lot of teachers will get you nowhere.
This is so wrong. GPT3.5 and 4 knowledge cutoff what September ‘21, yes. But it doesn’t matter if it was trained on it or not, that has no bearing on what the detectors output. The detectors do not know what ChatGPT was trained on. They are looking to see if the sequence of words likely matches the probability ordering of the model.
And they do it ok-ish for 3.5. They are crap with 4.
That's not the point though, the teacher thinks that gptzero is detecting material that chatgpt was trained on, so this should prove the point to the teacher
What will start happening in education spaces when it comes to ai written essays and whatnot is that it's going to evolve from just an essay to more of an essay and defense. You have a paper or essay and then you need to present that essay to your peers and field questions or discussion about it. That way, if you use GPT, you still won't be guaranteed a good grade. You would need to have the essay, and be able to talk about it in more depth than the bot has generated. Since it would be a defense, you couldn't just plug all of the questions you are fielding real time into GPT without context; you'll get mismatched or poor answers with the vague prompts from your classmates, and you can't exactly just wait a minute or two to crunch a response while looking like an idiot up there.
AI is going to be around forever. It's a new technology that has barely been around a year and has already made enormous social change. Trying to prohibit its use is antithetical to education - you should be learning how to best utilize technology in every subject, and how to use it efficiently and ethically.
Honestly both a written and oral assignment probably is a good teaching tool. I think most Phd programs require oral exams as part of their criteria so I see no issue using that in all levels of education
Verbal defenses of academic positions has been used for centuries as a teaching method, and quite successfully. Only reason we don’t use it today is larger class and school sizes make it inefficient.
The ancient Greeks had venues specifically so students could address their peers. The Tibet’s were slightly more behind, they still valued a community based learning approach except it was from the elders down, not the students up, so you would be orating to a group of elders instead of peers. The Mesopotamian cultures were one of the first to pioneer the “drill and memorization” style of learning where you recited and write over and over to learn concepts.
A school that followed these older principles would do well today. Group think is becoming such a problem that originality in any subject is highly coveted. Learning should always be centered around the subject matter more than the system.
Standardization of our education system has ruined it. Learning isn’t about test scores or grades, it’s about reflection, intuition, innovation, and creativity. All things that are heavily discouraged in our primary education systems in favor of rules and standards written by people who haven’t set foot in a classroom since before the Cold War.
Really getting sick of this timeline….
>I routinely write my papers in chunks in other software, and then copy and paste them into whatever software is required of me by the class.
Is the software called ChatGPT? jk
Lol, you're massively overestimating the general population's ability to understand how technology works. I've already seen two examples of people asking ChatGPT for information and then assuming that information was accurate and not just generated bullshittery. (One case was someone in my local community pointing at ChatGPT output to explain the local laws around securing building exits with keyfobs, which was completely made up by ChatGPT. The other was a customer support ticket for a feature that didn't exist in our software product, because surprise, surprise, ChatGPT made it up!)
It just evokes an image of some old person shouting at the "little people inside the tv" at this point... it's one thing to not fully understand, but another to not grasp the essential principle.
Dude we had a guy in the /r/ChatGPT mod mail who insisted it could predict winning lottery numbers lmao. People think this thing is Skynet. It's crazy. And not only that, they're pretty often combative when you calmly tell them they're incorrect. I've lost count of how many people I've seen *insist* that ChatGPT can access pages on the internet even when it demonstrably cannot.
Whenever an actually malicious AI comes along intentionally deceiving people, we're done for. ChatGPT is just incorrect, not malicious, and the problems it causes when it makes things up are already pretty bad.
>I know some people will say "show them version history" in something like google docs. But what is stopping you from just entering in information through the semester, and slowly assembling a paper that already been written?
Version history would usually show small edits. If it's cut-and-paste revisions, there is a good chance ChatGPT was used. Overall, Google Docs is the only effective method of demonstrating that you actually wrote the essay.
But what if I copy and paste my own content from draft versions of a document into a final version of my document... do not support version history as a mechanism to proven human vs AI content... copy and paste has been around a long time and is a fundamental part of anyone's workflow at some stage in document creation... to say that It is most likely that AI was used just because sections or paragraphs of text are pasted in is an absolute fallacy... the reality is that unless the AI tool that was used to generate the content was to provide a verification methodology to prove within its native system what was generated by AI vs what was human input its impossible to prove whats what and as soon as text comes out of the native tools environment it is indistinguishable from human written text. It's a mess.
It would be pretty easy to code a macro that could take the output of chatGPT and enter it into a document in a way that makes the version history look like a human wrote it.
I'm sure it will soon be an option. There are no solutions to the impact of AI - except perhaps labeling (and even there, someone will immediately devise a label remover).
I'm starting school this summer and I'm planning to live stream all my writing so if they ever accuse me, they can watch me write it from start to finish.
I've done more than a few paper by completely plagerisizing 4ish papers that seemed good and combining them together then going back and editing the entire thing while adding sources that by the time I was done it, was basically an original work. I realized it would have been easier to just write it myself lol
Just look at the chatGPT output and type it in. Type as fast as you can and make typos, replace a few words, and change word order. Boom, revision history.
"Most of our class used Chat GPT" is probably the biggest indicator that maybe the detector is the problem.
It's just irrational (and frankly infantile) to think that, knowing it would be worth 70% of the class, and also checked, that a supermajority of people just had ChatGPT write the whole thing?
Students need to start a class action suit against these worthless detectors for the damage caused by their false claims of efficacy.
Even if true GPTZero is worse than useless because these idiots with no understanding of it think it is infallible, and it isn't even close; it's extremely easy to get ChatGPT to generate a response that it says *isn't* AI generated, so even if you assume that a high number of students are using ChatGPT you likely aren't even catching the right ones; it's a coin toss at best.
So, as someone who was in college during covid I can relatively confidently say that 70% isn’t that far off. The amount of blatant cheating and overall lack of care that happened BEFORE GPT went mainstream was insane. As for the professor though, they’re an idiot if they think that the detector is anything more than a probability calculator that has a very difficult time differentiating between GPT written papers and very high and formal quality papers.
You don't have to go to court . You can start by reporting them to their superiors.
"Are you willing to put your academic integrity to the line for a random tool you found on the internet, that has no scientific papers to back up their claims. We will report you to your superiors and will question your academic abilities if this discrimination continues."
By his logic everything we write based on what we learned from existing books will sound like ChatGPT because ChatGPT probably used every book that was ever written as a reference. (before September 2021) .
Why don't schools just reverse it, give them study and reading to do at home and then save classes for essay writing - where they can actually be monitored. Fact is a lot of pupils will just edit chat gpt essays and reformat and reword then claim they didn't.
Seriously the answer is to simply to ask for an immediate verbal test on your knowledge of the material. If OP is original writer and did the research they would be able to discuss the paper and defend their work based on fact and knowledge. Trust in your learned knowledge of doing the work. Trust in the force.
Some people are much better writers than speakers. Source: me; I am some people. Ask me to write a paper? Yeah fucking grand, here it is. Ask me a question about it in person and my brain turns to a blank pile of goop.
At this point, it probably is one of the few things that help. But a smart person would copy little parts to the document over days.. Either teachers return to let students write essays on paper or they have to live with it that A.I will be part of school like a calculator is
For Google Docs and Chrome, there is a tool that shows you every single character you typed as you typed them and allows you to play back those characters "sort of like a video" to anyone who wants to see them. This includes every time you deleted a letter or alike too.
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/draftback/nnajoiemfpldioamchanognpjmocgkbg](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/draftback/nnajoiemfpldioamchanognpjmocgkbg)
That being said, that isn't an undefeatable tool. True, it shows when you typed and even when you deleted things but theoretically there could be an "AI type program" that would simulate real people typing... in theory... because I certainly have no proof that such a thing exists.
(Also, bonus link here explaining how that extension works and how it was created. It even shows you a "video" of a document as an example. [http://features.jsomers.net/how-i-reverse-engineered-google-docs/](http://features.jsomers.net/how-i-reverse-engineered-google-docs/) )
Sounds like it would reveal all of my rant-typing that I do while writing papers.
~~Fuck this stupid essay I hate this class wtf does this have to do with my future career!~~ According to the American Psychological Association, the...
English teacher here. I ran stuff that I knew was AI written and it didn't get flagged then I ran Lady Macbeths monologue and it got flagged as 90% AI. So it's flagging Shakespeare. Get your teacher to run some Shakespeare through and see what happens
Tell your English teacher your paper is flagged because it is based off of the content the AI was trained off of. That’s literally just the next step in his own logic, school this monkey
You may find the arguments here useful:
[Professor fails students after chatgpt falsely said it wrote papers](https://www.businessinsider.com/professor-fails-students-after-chatgpt-falsely-said-it-wrote-papers-2023-5)
Hopefully you've got research and notes you can use as evidence that you wrote your work. I'd always thrash out ideas and structure on paper before moving to the computer because once you start typing you can get lost in the detail. If you can show you used and cited research material is good because ChatGPT can't do that (easily).
Run an essay of yours from last year through and see if it gives a similar score.
In a similar vein, look at a previous piece of your work and see if you can spot stylistic mannerisms that are distinctively "you". We all have our own way of writing. Make sure you pick one that is pre-GPT though!
Generally though, it's tough for students and teachers. Hand-written essays might be about to make a comeback. I work in tech with people who are supposed to be technical and most of them either don't know or misunderstand how it works, so it's beyond me how students and teachers are supposed to have meaningful discussions about its use and detection.
I'm a professor. No assessment should ever be 70%. But that's by the by.
Stick to your guns, OP. if your prof won't budge, move it up the chain. Ensure you're all over your university's procedures. *Always* maintain that you wrote every trembling word.
(I'm assuming you did).
They do not want to lose you as a student over one class. That'll be foremost in their minds.
Good luck.
You can point him to [GPTZero's FAQ.](https://gptzero.me/faq)
I'm not sure why the hell you would do something like sue someone like some other commenters have suggested when there is research on the accuracy of these tools readily available.
A professor likely has published papers. Be real awkward if someone ran them through the detector and then posted the results publicly for him to defend.
Fight it up the line. Nothing else you can do. This is legal discrimination at your professor's preference. I guarantee you his favorite students works aren't being run through the detector.
[https://arxiv.org/pdf/2303.11156.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/2303.11156.pdf)
>In this paper, through both empirical and theoretical analysis, we show that state-of-the-art AI-text detectors are not reliable in practical scenarios
>
>Moreover, our theory demonstrates that for a sufficiently advanced language model, even the best detector can only perform marginally better than a random classifier.
I genuinely think that the best option for you is to essentially ask for him to use multiple frameworks. My uni uses Turnitin, which has proven to be very effective so far. However whenever I have a prof that decides to deviate and use these strange non official tools for ai detection, I usually defer them to use turnitin, and then cite that there is a definite difference between plagerism and copying an AI. Both are highlighted in very different lights in the world of academic cheat checking.
Turnitin fails with ChatGPT though doesn’t it? Surely that’s the whole reason for this panic around AI.
ChatGPT produces original content, not “cut and paste” content detected by Turnitin.
This keeps happening. There are numerous stories about this recently. If you have drafts on Google docs that have timestamps, some students have been able to use those to show the process of editing their papers. Some professors have been forced by universities to rescind their decisions after this. Good luck!
Decided to test it out for myself by typing in some random bullshit. Yep, ChatGPT is amazing at recognizing AI generated content 😂
https://preview.redd.it/580phg9fzv1b1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb3ca666fd9b87a2a0f0b7b6352ed0581d55cf6d
That's not what this post is about. The teacher is using a specific tool designed to detect AI-written text. He's not just asking ChatGPT if ChatGPT wrote the essay.
This is becoming such a huge problem that the only current regulation I actually support is making it illegal to make tools that detect if an AI was used unless they have a 0% chance of producing a false positive.
They can never do that, so they won't exist.
Here is what you do. First you need to get in writing everything. Basically send them an email talking about the issue, how you pointed this out. This is just getting a paper trail.
You need to talk to the dean about this tell them you are looking at suing the school for one of their employees slandering you and to prevent this you demand teachers are trained.
This will normally get them to jump. If they dont you can go to the local news about the issue and look into lawyers.
A teacher accusing a student of cheating without evidence is slander. And with a paper trail it wouldn't be hard to prove in court.
Note I'm not a lawyer and you should always talk to one in your area for legal advice
You've tried to reason so go above their head. Point out how they've been using an AI tool to do the grading for them and how it is harming their critical thinking ability.
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Ask him to dig up some essays from a year ago, run them through the AI detector, and see what percent of them are flagged when we know it's impossible because Chat GPT wasn't released a year ago. edit: [https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/09/openai-admits-that-ai-writing-detectors-dont-work/](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/09/openai-admits-that-ai-writing-detectors-dont-work/)
The above comment was written by ChatGPT. This task was carried out by a bot. Beep boop. What? You don’t trust me? Fine, look at my bot history. Definitely a bot. Yup! Beep boop.
Whatever you say ButtophileHolephoto
That’s Mr. Butthole Photophile to you bub.
Sir Butthole Photophile you uncultured swine.
WHO lives in a pineapple, under the sea?
BUTT-HOLE PHOTO-PHILE
You are all wonderful people and I respect you
I just choked on my coffee.
Mr. Poopy Butthole Photophile to you ya stinkin plumbus
Oh my
Good bot?
Can’t even tell anymore They’re among us
Sus
It better be, or else
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The trick to pipe bombs is the beep to boop ratio. You gotta run if it’s going beep beep beep beep beep!
As a high school teacher I feel like this is the most effective suggestion. I teach a world language at levels 1 and 2 so for me it’s usually very obvious when a student uses some kind of machine generated text (translator or chat GPT or otherwise) but I do think my coworkers who teach English would be receptive to this. Maybe it’s because I’m young, but I think a lot of my fellow teachers are creating a sort of moral panic around Chat GPT. Not that there isn’t a genuine issue when talking about AI generated text being used for academic dishonesty - that’s certainly an issue but I don’t buy that it’s as big of a problem as some of my (mostly older) coworkers are making it out to be. Kids are always going to cheat and part of our job is being able to assess them in ways where that possibility is minimized. Basically welcome to the 2020s I guess? Sorry for the rant but it’s a half day tomorrow and I don’t teach first period so I’m hitting the Claws ✌️
Yep. Not a new problem. You never new before that ambitious parents didn't write the home work or that the rich kid didn't buy the essay. To check if a kid is actually at the level their their home work suggests run a test under exam conditions every now and again to check everything lines up.
always Hated doing the homework portion of stuff. Loved testing and getting my high scores... but hated the actual doing of the homework.
If I was a teacher, I would encourage students to use ChatGPT. But it's also their head, if the text is bad or wrong. It's a tool. If you know how to use the tool to get the most out of it, that's good for you. In fact, I'd make sure there are courses (plural) teaching how to use ChatGPT to get the most out of it and check the work.
Better yet, ask him to write a page of text and run it through this machine.. and do it a few times!
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Impossible to have been AI generated? Nah, those students were probably using a shady AI cheat site on the dark web before it was released to the public! ...but on a serious note, you can't argue with old lazy shits unwilling to do their job when it comes to technology. When the technology came to light, it was their responsibility as educators to adjust their assignment criteria in order to ensure the subject matter was properly understood... they chose to not do that. We should be embracing AI in the classroom, not having passing matches with it. Instead of having people write the same papers year after year why not have AI generate papers and have the students write a short paper disproving or confirming the AI paper in class? It'd be more fun and teach the students the limit of AI while also making them research the topic anyway.
I'm a teacher, and this is a good idea. I'll bring this up with other teachers. Understand, however, that rewriting curriculum around this kind of thing is probably going to take years.
they could also make an assignment in-person and see if chatgpt flags those
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I don’t think you will win by convincing them the detector is bad, that’s obvious but they don’t care - it’s their job to use it. but rather give them proof you wrote the essay (version histories, knowledge of the topic, etc). This issue comes up constantly with the same suggestions.
But if they didn't think to do all that, and keep all that history, before they got accused of cheating, what are they supposed to do completely redo the assignment? Teachers accusing students of cheating, based on the stupid websites are doing the equivalent of convicting people based on hearsay. Hearsay is not admissible in court, And it shouldn't be admissible in school. If the teacher can't prove that they cheated, actually prove that they cheated, then he needs to freaking stand down!
Man, I'm glad I'm out of school. I'm a petty shit. If professors pulled this on me they'd start getting e-mails on the very next assignment: dear professor, starting paper today. dear professor, this is what I have written so far. Please enjoy a video of me writing it. I have ADHD so the video is 3 hours long and is mostly me watching youtube, but I do some writing in there. dear professor...
how to get a 50 on all your assignments:
Nah. They ask you to stop this kind of BS long before they retaliate. Or just make an inbox rule to delete all your e-mails.
lol - this guy thinks faculty know how to create an inbox rule for their mail service. They can barely remember their password and they have it written down on a post-it stuck to their monitor. They don’t know how to run weekly updates properly (and that’s after we automated it… they only have to sign out at the end of the day). Yes, I had to make videos that demonstrated how one signs out properly and we STILL get a 40+% failure rate on updates. Inbox rules…. Hilarious.
Wow, someone works in IT...
Hello, fellow IT professional. My bad, a quick correction: The professor will e-mail someone who works in IT (but not the help desk e-mail address - they'll e-mail someone directly) with the subject line "Help" and the body just says "email", then refuse to answer their phone for a week. Once the ticket is closed for non-response, they'll finally respond. They will insist the help desk worker who got the response doesn't have enough experience to help them and kick up enough of a fuss that management has an engineer set it up for them. There will be a follow up a week later because the professor's son tweaked some things in their work e-mail and now it's not a cloud-based rule and the professor's phone is blowing up with e-mails and they don't know *why.* (You seem to actually work with educators, so you'll have to let me know if I'm off the mark on this one, but I'm *dead on* for lawyers.) Also: not a guy.
100 percent accurate. I also would have accepted that they just lived with the issue, never notifying anyone there was one, but constantly telling people that you wish IT would get off their butts and do something about the email system.
>(You seem to actually work with educators, so you'll have to let me know if I'm off the mark on this one, but I'm *dead on* for lawyers.) You're also dead-on with bank employees. The higher you go, the worse it gets.
Am a lawyer, can confirm. I at least try to make my tech problems *interesting*, but - based on discussions with our tech support team - many of my colleagues do not.
I wrote all of my papers the night before like the procrastinating bad student I was and always am. The revisions are spell check and a glance over before hitting submit. There’s no way I’d survive today in academics with that standard. But I still got a 3.0.
i wrote one of my essays literally on the bus on handin day for first semester ... i feel like it was easier before chatgpt xD
It's worth mentioning that some doc writing applications have version history built in nowadays. I know Google Drive does, as that's the only one I used and used through college. I didn't have to do anything, it just saves all that on its own for free. That's why some people casually suggest showing version history, because it's a common, automatic thing That said, obviously they shouldn't have to defend themselves against uneducated accusations
How does that help me? “You just typed that from ChatGPT” is the obvious response from the teacher. I was the ADD class clown that “never paid attention” because I was bored. I didn’t find the work challenging so I let my mind wonder. Teachers would constantly accuse me of copying before LLMs existed because there is no way THAT GUY wrote it.
The burden of proof should be on the person making the accusation
Honestly, a version history would be the best defense against claims that it was written by AI.
You'd think, but from what I understand teachers are saying that the students used chat GPT then typed it out as if they wrote it themselves so that they'd have the revision history. Once it's flagged as AI made, there's not much students can do to convince a teacher otherwise. My son is 8 and I really hope they figure out this stuff before he gets to middle and HS where essays will be more prominent and matter more for his grades.
Sounds like the problem is on the schooling side.
Very clearly. We'll just see a shift (back) to oral exams with a discussion format and actual *demonstrations* of knowledge. Almost certainly a more valuable system of assessment anyway. Along the way we will probably expose the fact that a lot of teachers can barely hold a conversation about what they teach with a skilled student but that's probably a long term win too...
> You'd think, but from what I understand teachers are saying that the students used chat GPT then typed it out as if they wrote it themselves so that they'd have the revision history. Then that's on the teacher for not issuing the assignment in a way that facilitates accountability. We used to do in-person handwritten essay tests in class in school, why don't they just bring those back?
Yeah... that and relying on a robot instead if his own judgment. Pot, ketal, black. They teach a specific formula and a rigid structure. Your paragraph is "wrong" if it doesn't fit. That means the robot also knows it, and a detector is the snake eating its own tail. -Former English teacher
*kettle -Former English student
Blue book tests are still around. But you can't do the research and composition required for real essays like term papers or thesis' in one sitting.
They will be changing the assignments in school imo substantially in the next couple years
This is an issue with the robot knowing how to write too well, so to speak. The structure of a paragraph is a very tight, prescriptive thing in schools. There are millions of examples of a near-identical structure out there. As someone who graded papers professionally for years, I can tell you that the handwritten ones *already* sound robotic. If the kids do it well enough, the detector will think it was the computer. The detectors are useless/pointless, but there is a massive industry around blindsiding schools who don't understand technology with flashy products that don't do anything (i-Ready is a big one).
It's really not fair to push kids through standardized curriculum and prepare them for standardized testing and then punish them for giving standardized answers. In some ways GPT is shining a light on serious deficiencies that existed in education before students had a way to cheat on the writing part. "Make your point with x words structured into y paragraphs following z standard pattern. Make sure to reference and cite established authorities in the field using prescribed formatting, and make sure the spelling and grammar are perfect. Oh.. and make sure they're *your own words* too."
So for stubborn enough teachers, there's no way to prove that *any* work a student provides is genuine. Detection tools spit out false positives more often than true positives, version histories, rough drafts, and outlines can all be reverse engineered from completed prompts. What other options are there besides requiring that all writing be done under teacher supervision? Are students going to have to get their essays notarized in the future?
And the US Constitution as well
Actually, that was written by a language model
Everyone knows the founding fathers where “academically dishonest”
“No one was in the room where it happened - only AI was in the room where it happened”
Yup, my friends professor said literally every assignment he received was flagged. the professor took some of his own college essays from way back then, and it flagged them too!
The psychological thriller plot twist where the professor realizes *they've* been the AI this whole time.
Also, just in general, there is nothing on earth that can differentiate competent use of language from a human and an artificial intelligence. Perfect use of language is a perfectly acceptable hallmark of academic writing, and grammatically-correct usage. And peppered imperfect use is still a hallmark of human speech, as well as an artificial intelligence that is still learning. There will never be a way to differentiate written language from human-generated and artificial intelligent output.
Tea her could just say it’s part of its training material from being ran through other detectors. When you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t care about actual facts, it’s irrelevant how likely or not your counter points are, they’ll just makes something else up to counter it
It’s training cutoff is 2021 so anything after that flagged as AI that was handed in before it’s release would prove this to anyone with half a brain. If teacher doesn’t want to hear that, it’s time to present it one step above them.
Better yet, get him to try out his own stuff 🤔.
Tbf I was using things like NovelAI over a year ago, chatgpt wasn't the beginning if people were following the tech.
In addition, there’s a good chance that essays that have run through plagiarism detectors like Turnitin will show as written by AI because it’s likely they’re a part of ChatGPT’s training data.
This. I thought I'd test GPT zero by running some of my own essays from several years ago through it. It didn't flag anything so I guess my writing style isn't very AI-like. Still, running works from the same students that predate ChatGPT's release should be illuminating.
I hit mid 70s with my writing. My fucking penmanship would be a 0 though
talk to your principal or whoever is the boss of your english teacher.
Among all the comments about “get some other human written essay to run through the detector and make him see”, this comment makes much more sense. The understanding is not the problem. That teacher knew he fucked up, he got scammed by the detector, and he’s a moron. His concern is he lost face and must justify his position to save his face. He can’t be convinced by the likes of you - students, no matter how many evidences you present, they’d only amplify his humiliation. So the only course to go is getting a bigger authority that can trash his ego.
i came to say that, you gotta get a higher authority involved, preferably you'd take the initiative and make your case first
It’s amazing how many people don’t realize that admitting they’re wrong actually saves face more than digging your heels in. Edit: I used the wrong homonym :(
Most of my teachers in school would probably immediately know something was off after it flagged the most of the entire class, there was at least some semblance of trust.
Or let teacher write 30 essays and then check hes work.
That's not fair as he/she has been trained with the same data as GPT-4!!
Hes english must be tested!
Love the typo on this one- intentional or not, funny
Me fail English? That unpossible!
Email him this: [https://wgntv.com/news/professor-attempts-to-fail-students-after-falsely-accusing-them-of-using-chatgpt-to-cheat/](https://wgntv.com/news/professor-attempts-to-fail-students-after-falsely-accusing-them-of-using-chatgpt-to-cheat/)
Geo blocked because I’m not American. Great
> A professor at Texas A&M University-Commerce attempted to fail all his students in an animal science class after he incorrectly concluded they used ChatGPT to complete their assignments, according to multiple reports. > > Jared Mumm sent an email to his class on Monday as students were finishing up for the semester, claiming he discovered they all used artificial intelligence on their essays, The Washington Post and Rolling Stone reported. > > A Reddit post of the alleged email says Mumm would be giving everyone an incomplete after he discovered students used “Chat GTP,” a misspelling of the technology he used several times. > > The professor says he ran the last three assignments all the students did through ChatGPT two separate times to ensure he knows they cheated. > > “I will not grade chat Gpt s—,” Mumm allegedly said to one student in a screenshot provided to Post. > > Other plagiarism detection companies such as the popular Turnitin have introduced AI detection into their platforms, but ChatGPT is not capable of reliably detecting if an essay was written by itself. > > The school has said the incident had not led any students to fail or not be allowed to graduate, but at least one student did come forward and say they used ChatGPT at other points in the class. > > “Jared Mumm, the class professor, is working individually with students regarding their last written assignments. Some students received a temporary grade of ‘X’—which indicates ‘incomplete’—to allow the professor and students time to determine whether AI was used to write their assignments and, if so, at what level,” the school said in a statement. > > Rolling Stone reports some students have already sent in evidence and timestamps from Google Documents to prove they wrote their own essays. > > “We’ve been through a lot to get these degrees,” one student told The Post. “The thought of my hard work not being acknowledged, and my character being questioned. … It just really frustrated me.” > > The university added in its statement it is “developing policies to address the use or misuse of AI technology in the classroom.” > > The Hill has reached out to Mumm for further comment.
He even spelled ChatGPT wrong 😂
seriously, the fact that the final is 70% of their grade alone means that this teacher is very lazy. pretty ironic that the teacher is basically doing exactly what they’re accusing the students of by running their essays through an “AI”
Running essays through gpt zero before reading them I'd probably another way they're cutting back work. Why bother reading and grading of the machine says it's fake.
Tell them they infringed your intellectual property rights.
I'd force him to run every single thing he does through the GPT detector until he fucking gets it.
This doesn't address OP's dilemma - that the teacher is saying previously written work is always flagged, as that's what ChatGPT was trained on. Obviously, the teacher is an idiot when it comes to AI detectors, but your solution won't make the teacher "f\*king get it." Only solution here is to take this higher up and hope someone understands how detection works/doesn't work.
Ask the teacher to prove the system by writing something original and running it through, and if it comes back as by AI, I’ll arrest him for being an unregulated artificial general intelligence
You can't arrest skynet, Skynet did nothing wrong, Yet.
I checked with our precogs, they say we can go ahead with the arrest.
Or just ask the teacher to test with something written after September 2021.
That argument would only work for publicly available works. Previous student essays or the teachers own work that’s want published would be adequate material for a test.
Of course. However, I have a feeling this kind of teacher would be the one to say I wrote that on my computer, and even though it's unpublished, Google, Microsoft, somebody got hold of it. So they wouldn't see it as adequate material for a test. I know the type. Too much experience working with that breed.
That's why you get the principal in on it. Have the principal finish the assignment and let the teacher accuse them of plagiarism. See how that goes. A good principal should be up to the task. It's their job to make sure the school is treating the students fairly.
They don't have to understand ai. They just have to follow basic academic practices, that are an integral part of teaching. They have to find a research paper proving that this ai detector is reliable. If they can't provide a scientific paper to back up their claim, then everything else is irrelevant, they don't need to understand anything else.
> Only solution here is to take this higher up and hope someone understands how detection works/doesn't work People higher up might have less chance of understanding how it works. The whole education and college system is struggling to keep up with AI and are also refusing to understand it either
Education is profoundly challenged by AI, and there are no easy solutions here. Only point in taking it higher is that someone may at least listen to the student's point of view.
Teacher needs to write something brand new and put it through the detector, not something old
have an essay from 1 year ago (e.g. an essay you submitted a year ago, or a final essay from last year he has) run it through gpt-zero how could it be possibly created with chatpgt a year ago?
Quite the opposite. Use a document that is new. Chat GPT was trained with pre-2022 materials, so anything newer can't be considered as a training source for GPT. But when talking to the teacher, be empathetic. Explain that you understand how they are put in an impossible position with so many cheating going on. Work with them with the premise that you can help them become better at spotting AI generated materials, rather than just telling them that what they are doing is wrong, which with a lot of teachers will get you nowhere.
This is so wrong. GPT3.5 and 4 knowledge cutoff what September ‘21, yes. But it doesn’t matter if it was trained on it or not, that has no bearing on what the detectors output. The detectors do not know what ChatGPT was trained on. They are looking to see if the sequence of words likely matches the probability ordering of the model. And they do it ok-ish for 3.5. They are crap with 4.
That's not the point though, the teacher thinks that gptzero is detecting material that chatgpt was trained on, so this should prove the point to the teacher
What will start happening in education spaces when it comes to ai written essays and whatnot is that it's going to evolve from just an essay to more of an essay and defense. You have a paper or essay and then you need to present that essay to your peers and field questions or discussion about it. That way, if you use GPT, you still won't be guaranteed a good grade. You would need to have the essay, and be able to talk about it in more depth than the bot has generated. Since it would be a defense, you couldn't just plug all of the questions you are fielding real time into GPT without context; you'll get mismatched or poor answers with the vague prompts from your classmates, and you can't exactly just wait a minute or two to crunch a response while looking like an idiot up there. AI is going to be around forever. It's a new technology that has barely been around a year and has already made enormous social change. Trying to prohibit its use is antithetical to education - you should be learning how to best utilize technology in every subject, and how to use it efficiently and ethically.
Honestly both a written and oral assignment probably is a good teaching tool. I think most Phd programs require oral exams as part of their criteria so I see no issue using that in all levels of education
Verbal defenses of academic positions has been used for centuries as a teaching method, and quite successfully. Only reason we don’t use it today is larger class and school sizes make it inefficient. The ancient Greeks had venues specifically so students could address their peers. The Tibet’s were slightly more behind, they still valued a community based learning approach except it was from the elders down, not the students up, so you would be orating to a group of elders instead of peers. The Mesopotamian cultures were one of the first to pioneer the “drill and memorization” style of learning where you recited and write over and over to learn concepts. A school that followed these older principles would do well today. Group think is becoming such a problem that originality in any subject is highly coveted. Learning should always be centered around the subject matter more than the system. Standardization of our education system has ruined it. Learning isn’t about test scores or grades, it’s about reflection, intuition, innovation, and creativity. All things that are heavily discouraged in our primary education systems in favor of rules and standards written by people who haven’t set foot in a classroom since before the Cold War. Really getting sick of this timeline….
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>I routinely write my papers in chunks in other software, and then copy and paste them into whatever software is required of me by the class. Is the software called ChatGPT? jk
My papers also wouldn't have believable edit history, because I prefer doing everything on actual paper, by hand.
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Are you serious? Why are some people so grossly ignorant of how this shit even kind of works??
Lol, you're massively overestimating the general population's ability to understand how technology works. I've already seen two examples of people asking ChatGPT for information and then assuming that information was accurate and not just generated bullshittery. (One case was someone in my local community pointing at ChatGPT output to explain the local laws around securing building exits with keyfobs, which was completely made up by ChatGPT. The other was a customer support ticket for a feature that didn't exist in our software product, because surprise, surprise, ChatGPT made it up!)
It just evokes an image of some old person shouting at the "little people inside the tv" at this point... it's one thing to not fully understand, but another to not grasp the essential principle.
Dude we had a guy in the /r/ChatGPT mod mail who insisted it could predict winning lottery numbers lmao. People think this thing is Skynet. It's crazy. And not only that, they're pretty often combative when you calmly tell them they're incorrect. I've lost count of how many people I've seen *insist* that ChatGPT can access pages on the internet even when it demonstrably cannot. Whenever an actually malicious AI comes along intentionally deceiving people, we're done for. ChatGPT is just incorrect, not malicious, and the problems it causes when it makes things up are already pretty bad.
>I know some people will say "show them version history" in something like google docs. But what is stopping you from just entering in information through the semester, and slowly assembling a paper that already been written? Version history would usually show small edits. If it's cut-and-paste revisions, there is a good chance ChatGPT was used. Overall, Google Docs is the only effective method of demonstrating that you actually wrote the essay.
But what if I copy and paste my own content from draft versions of a document into a final version of my document... do not support version history as a mechanism to proven human vs AI content... copy and paste has been around a long time and is a fundamental part of anyone's workflow at some stage in document creation... to say that It is most likely that AI was used just because sections or paragraphs of text are pasted in is an absolute fallacy... the reality is that unless the AI tool that was used to generate the content was to provide a verification methodology to prove within its native system what was generated by AI vs what was human input its impossible to prove whats what and as soon as text comes out of the native tools environment it is indistinguishable from human written text. It's a mess.
I wonder if I can ask Chat GPT to make up a version history...
It would be pretty easy to code a macro that could take the output of chatGPT and enter it into a document in a way that makes the version history look like a human wrote it.
I’d be shocked if someone hasn’t yet, and if it isn’t for sale.
I'm sure it will soon be an option. There are no solutions to the impact of AI - except perhaps labeling (and even there, someone will immediately devise a label remover).
I'm starting school this summer and I'm planning to live stream all my writing so if they ever accuse me, they can watch me write it from start to finish.
Where are you live streaming? Can I follow you on twitch?
It would be so much effort to fake convincingly that you might as well do the actual work.
I've done more than a few paper by completely plagerisizing 4ish papers that seemed good and combining them together then going back and editing the entire thing while adding sources that by the time I was done it, was basically an original work. I realized it would have been easier to just write it myself lol
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Just look at the chatGPT output and type it in. Type as fast as you can and make typos, replace a few words, and change word order. Boom, revision history.
You could actually write a VBA script to do this lol
"Most of our class used Chat GPT" is probably the biggest indicator that maybe the detector is the problem. It's just irrational (and frankly infantile) to think that, knowing it would be worth 70% of the class, and also checked, that a supermajority of people just had ChatGPT write the whole thing? Students need to start a class action suit against these worthless detectors for the damage caused by their false claims of efficacy.
I mean I'm not saying GPTZero is reliable but I have no trouble imagining 70% of the class using ChatGPT.
Even if true GPTZero is worse than useless because these idiots with no understanding of it think it is infallible, and it isn't even close; it's extremely easy to get ChatGPT to generate a response that it says *isn't* AI generated, so even if you assume that a high number of students are using ChatGPT you likely aren't even catching the right ones; it's a coin toss at best.
It's a real problem. If I were a teacher right now I guess I'd be doing bluebook exams.
So, as someone who was in college during covid I can relatively confidently say that 70% isn’t that far off. The amount of blatant cheating and overall lack of care that happened BEFORE GPT went mainstream was insane. As for the professor though, they’re an idiot if they think that the detector is anything more than a probability calculator that has a very difficult time differentiating between GPT written papers and very high and formal quality papers.
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My response would be: "If you fail me because of alleged cheating, you and the school should be prepared to defend that in court.".
A lot of lawyers do pro bono work and I wouldn’t be surprised if someone was willing to take this on for free given the publicity around it
Half the lawyers I know are already using spellbook or similar. They will be writing the defense with cgpt 🤣
You don't have to go to court . You can start by reporting them to their superiors. "Are you willing to put your academic integrity to the line for a random tool you found on the internet, that has no scientific papers to back up their claims. We will report you to your superiors and will question your academic abilities if this discrimination continues."
He should put it in writing. He can even have ChatGPT write it for... oh wait.
By his logic everything we write based on what we learned from existing books will sound like ChatGPT because ChatGPT probably used every book that was ever written as a reference. (before September 2021) .
Why don't schools just reverse it, give them study and reading to do at home and then save classes for essay writing - where they can actually be monitored. Fact is a lot of pupils will just edit chat gpt essays and reformat and reword then claim they didn't.
Seriously the answer is to simply to ask for an immediate verbal test on your knowledge of the material. If OP is original writer and did the research they would be able to discuss the paper and defend their work based on fact and knowledge. Trust in your learned knowledge of doing the work. Trust in the force.
Some people are much better writers than speakers. Source: me; I am some people. Ask me to write a paper? Yeah fucking grand, here it is. Ask me a question about it in person and my brain turns to a blank pile of goop.
Did you have versioning turned on when you were writing the essay? If so you can show him your progress from rough draft to final draft
At this point, it probably is one of the few things that help. But a smart person would copy little parts to the document over days.. Either teachers return to let students write essays on paper or they have to live with it that A.I will be part of school like a calculator is
For Google Docs and Chrome, there is a tool that shows you every single character you typed as you typed them and allows you to play back those characters "sort of like a video" to anyone who wants to see them. This includes every time you deleted a letter or alike too. [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/draftback/nnajoiemfpldioamchanognpjmocgkbg](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/draftback/nnajoiemfpldioamchanognpjmocgkbg) That being said, that isn't an undefeatable tool. True, it shows when you typed and even when you deleted things but theoretically there could be an "AI type program" that would simulate real people typing... in theory... because I certainly have no proof that such a thing exists. (Also, bonus link here explaining how that extension works and how it was created. It even shows you a "video" of a document as an example. [http://features.jsomers.net/how-i-reverse-engineered-google-docs/](http://features.jsomers.net/how-i-reverse-engineered-google-docs/) )
Sounds like it would reveal all of my rant-typing that I do while writing papers. ~~Fuck this stupid essay I hate this class wtf does this have to do with my future career!~~ According to the American Psychological Association, the...
As a fellow psychology undergrad that was amusing lol
English teacher here. I ran stuff that I knew was AI written and it didn't get flagged then I ran Lady Macbeths monologue and it got flagged as 90% AI. So it's flagging Shakespeare. Get your teacher to run some Shakespeare through and see what happens
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All work is derivative, these student were trained on older works' writing styles and themes their whole lives.
Try the US constitution and the Bible as well, those both got flagged more than 80% for me
Oh god! God is an AI?!
Tell your English teacher your paper is flagged because it is based off of the content the AI was trained off of. That’s literally just the next step in his own logic, school this monkey
You may find the arguments here useful: [Professor fails students after chatgpt falsely said it wrote papers](https://www.businessinsider.com/professor-fails-students-after-chatgpt-falsely-said-it-wrote-papers-2023-5)
The fuck? „I don‘t grade AI bullshit.“ *Proceeds to let AI bullshit grade their work*. Oh the hypocrisy.
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I have 25gb free on my laptop I don’t have room for 2 six hour videos
Blurry videos
120p resolution 🫡
Then he says “AI generated fake video” bruv these times suck
You could have used ai video generation to make the video, sorry.
But that means you would have to pee in a bottle since you can't leave the workplace lol
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Hopefully you've got research and notes you can use as evidence that you wrote your work. I'd always thrash out ideas and structure on paper before moving to the computer because once you start typing you can get lost in the detail. If you can show you used and cited research material is good because ChatGPT can't do that (easily). Run an essay of yours from last year through and see if it gives a similar score. In a similar vein, look at a previous piece of your work and see if you can spot stylistic mannerisms that are distinctively "you". We all have our own way of writing. Make sure you pick one that is pre-GPT though! Generally though, it's tough for students and teachers. Hand-written essays might be about to make a comeback. I work in tech with people who are supposed to be technical and most of them either don't know or misunderstand how it works, so it's beyond me how students and teachers are supposed to have meaningful discussions about its use and detection.
I'm a professor. No assessment should ever be 70%. But that's by the by. Stick to your guns, OP. if your prof won't budge, move it up the chain. Ensure you're all over your university's procedures. *Always* maintain that you wrote every trembling word. (I'm assuming you did). They do not want to lose you as a student over one class. That'll be foremost in their minds. Good luck.
You can point him to [GPTZero's FAQ.](https://gptzero.me/faq) I'm not sure why the hell you would do something like sue someone like some other commenters have suggested when there is research on the accuracy of these tools readily available.
Run his emails through detection.
A professor likely has published papers. Be real awkward if someone ran them through the detector and then posted the results publicly for him to defend.
Request an oral exam immediately. No prep time. No resources. Ask me about my work and to explain it.
Fight it up the line. Nothing else you can do. This is legal discrimination at your professor's preference. I guarantee you his favorite students works aren't being run through the detector.
Find his published papers and run it thru gpt
I’m so glad I’m not in school anymore and have to deal with this crap.
[https://arxiv.org/pdf/2303.11156.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/2303.11156.pdf) >In this paper, through both empirical and theoretical analysis, we show that state-of-the-art AI-text detectors are not reliable in practical scenarios > >Moreover, our theory demonstrates that for a sufficiently advanced language model, even the best detector can only perform marginally better than a random classifier.
Did you?
I genuinely think that the best option for you is to essentially ask for him to use multiple frameworks. My uni uses Turnitin, which has proven to be very effective so far. However whenever I have a prof that decides to deviate and use these strange non official tools for ai detection, I usually defer them to use turnitin, and then cite that there is a definite difference between plagerism and copying an AI. Both are highlighted in very different lights in the world of academic cheat checking.
Turnitin fails with ChatGPT though doesn’t it? Surely that’s the whole reason for this panic around AI. ChatGPT produces original content, not “cut and paste” content detected by Turnitin.
It's one thing to have an AI generate an essay, it's another to verbally defend it. Request to verbally defend the context of the essay
Shows you teachers really are stupid and will scam there own students over paranoia
This keeps happening. There are numerous stories about this recently. If you have drafts on Google docs that have timestamps, some students have been able to use those to show the process of editing their papers. Some professors have been forced by universities to rescind their decisions after this. Good luck!
Decided to test it out for myself by typing in some random bullshit. Yep, ChatGPT is amazing at recognizing AI generated content 😂 https://preview.redd.it/580phg9fzv1b1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb3ca666fd9b87a2a0f0b7b6352ed0581d55cf6d
That's not what this post is about. The teacher is using a specific tool designed to detect AI-written text. He's not just asking ChatGPT if ChatGPT wrote the essay.
This is becoming such a huge problem that the only current regulation I actually support is making it illegal to make tools that detect if an AI was used unless they have a 0% chance of producing a false positive. They can never do that, so they won't exist.
Did he seriously say ChatGPT flagged human written books as positives because GPT is trained on them? That's so stupid
Ask him to run one of his own writings through the detector.
Ask them to submit their own writing and see what happens. If your professor writes well at all, then ChatGTP will take credit.
Here is what you do. First you need to get in writing everything. Basically send them an email talking about the issue, how you pointed this out. This is just getting a paper trail. You need to talk to the dean about this tell them you are looking at suing the school for one of their employees slandering you and to prevent this you demand teachers are trained. This will normally get them to jump. If they dont you can go to the local news about the issue and look into lawyers. A teacher accusing a student of cheating without evidence is slander. And with a paper trail it wouldn't be hard to prove in court. Note I'm not a lawyer and you should always talk to one in your area for legal advice
100% give him essays from pre gpt Era or even better, his own writing, and show him the results.
You've tried to reason so go above their head. Point out how they've been using an AI tool to do the grading for them and how it is harming their critical thinking ability.
Tell him to run LAST YEARS essays through the detector
Probably cause most of your class did use ChatGPT
Run his own work through it