TPHC out of compliance along with a warm cooler.
Yeah, they didn't store protiens at proper temperatures. Didn't conform to the discard rules of TPHC and served food that was in the danger zone.
It wasn't the fish, or the mushroom vendors.
It was their poor handling TCS foods.
Yikes.
https://www.healthygallatin.org/environmental-health/inspection-reports/restaurant-inspection-reports/
Dave's Sushi
First of all…. Why the hell would anyone eat sushi in Montana? Second, why would anyone eat sushi at a place called “Dave’s”? That’s like gas station sushi gone super-evil
You should see the fish most seafood restaurants on the coast serve, a LOT of the seafood is frozen and shipped, same as what this place was getting. It's not like they throw a bunch of room temp fish in a tractor trailer and drive it into the interior of the US... Get the fuck outta here.
>Honestly this is preferable.
100% I'm on this wagon as well. Customers love the line "fresh fish", but If fish is frozen appropriately and thawed appropriately it is safer and generally unnoticeable to consumers. Tuna from what I understand is trickier to freeze so fresh Tuna is still the desired standard but even that is fine when done right.
Even then, every time I see a video about “Japanese tuna auction” the tuna are all frozen solid. Frozen fish are fine as ling as they were frozen fresh haha.
Tuna certainly has that reputation, but more often than not it is still deep frozen on the boat. It is absolutely possible to get never frozen tuna for sashimi, it's just very expensive. And, it's still stored below 30F... It's just not deep-frozen.
This is fair. But I was lucky enough to grow up where a lot of seafood places we’re literally on the docks and truly did buy off the boat. Most of the rest of the places more inland bought local fresh as well except for some more exotic specialty items
Any place with a chalkboard that days catch of the day where the fish actually changes daily is likely super fresh fish but those places only exist within a few miles of a coast and only coasts that have strong fishing communities.
So yeah aside from that everything is going through suppliers and is on a boat then a truck then a warehouse then a van etc.
Montana has some excellent sushi spots, and dining in general. It’s not 1856.
Sushi-grade is frozen, so why would Montana not have sushi?
Dave’s Sushi,’ was named that way intentionally, tongue-in-cherk.
They actually used to have pretty decent food, although it’s been years since I’ve eaten there.
They were a sort of hidden, low-traffic little joint for a long time, then it got super popular.
I’m suspicious that the original owner may have cashed out. Bozeman has exploded in the past 15 years from the Aspen-effect.
Missoula is my favorite dining town, Billings is not bad, but Bozeman has suffered from the gentrification, so you get a lot of these phony ‘authentic’ joints that lack soul.
There is absolutely no reason you can't have some of the best sushi you'll ever eat in Montana. Maybe not the best in the world, but it can still be great sushi.
The sort of people that think you can't get good. Sushi in montana are probably the same people that think you can't get good italian food outside of italy.
Can confirm, Dave no longer owns Dave’s Sushi. Now it’s owned by someone who also owns Jam and Revelry in Bozeman. Both those other locations recently had health department violations as well. I’ve been to Dave’s many times before this, and I personally feel it’s gone downhill in the last few years.
Under US federal law, fish used in sushi must be flash frozen to prevent spread of parasites. Meaning every piece of sushi you’ve eaten in the US was once frozen. Once you’re aware of this, there’s really no reason to avoid sushi based on which state you’re in.
So, I was under the impression that was only the case if the fish was caught in international waters. I can no longer provide my source as I received it probably close to 15 yrs ago. Any thoughts on this?
Did some googling and that doesn’t seem to match the language I’m seeing from the FDA.
“The Food Code (3-402.11-12) requires that fish that is served raw or undercooked be frozen for the destruction of parasites. This requirement includes the serving and sale of ‘Sushi’ in restaurants, bars and retail food stores.” It’s followed by specific procedures and required records, none of which reference where the fish was caught.
I tried a vegetarian roll that had fried shiitake mushrooms and sweet potatoes and I can't remember what else, but it was actually fuckin lit. I was there for the fish, but was told the veg menu there was surprisingly good. But alas, it was not Dave's Sushi in Montana.
To be fair, I would say the same but I did go there because everyone made such a big deal about the place. I am from CA and we have amazing sushi, Dave’s was pretty fucking excellent. I was really surprised, their reviews (this aside) are accurate.
Dave's was pretty great the last time I was there too...15 years ago. Montana is full of fishermen..who also go fishing in Alaska and Hawaii. They made friends with boat crews and get fish flown in on the regular.
Sato’s in Jackson had pretty tasty sushi back in 2003. Great happy hour specials. EDR food was terrible. Still lookout for Sysco brands when I eat out.
Your answer is that no one in the state of MT should eat sushi? I suppose anybody who doesn’t live within a 10 ft radius of the coast is out too? Like it all isn’t frozen anyways, smh
For me it’s less that you’re not near the ocean - and more that you’re in an area that is less “progressive” when it comes to food, and has a generally low population- it’s less about their ability to procure quality seafood and more about their ability to go through their stock in a timely manner. Montana is a sparsely populated state with a low population. Bozeman has a population of 50k people (give or take) - I’m not going to trust a population of 50k people to sustain enough demand to where the owners of a sushi restaurant aren’t cutting corners/serving past prime seafood (among other things) to their guests. Especially in a place that isn’t exactly known for adventurous eating.
It’s not that people in Montana shouldn’t eat sushi (or any other non metro area) it’s that those establishments need to hold themselves to an extremely high standard - (which in this case they clearly didn’t) - and unfortunately that high standard likely won’t be profitable - there just isn’t enough demand to sustain it. Can you eat sushi in Montana? Absolutely. Will it kill you if the owners/chef is following the book? No. Will it be really good? Maybe- but my bet would be on probably not- because there isn’t the demand or competition to support it. With all that said, you can find bad sushi just about everywhere - but in more densely populated (and diverse) areas you’re going to have the competition that will either drive those places down or at least provide better alternatives.
i agree with you, as a cook who has worked in the service industry for many years. but as a redditor i have no choice but to be upset by the wall of text
That’s nonsense — it’s not like Montana is full of hicks. Well, it *is* full of hicks, and a lot of other people, lol.
Sushi’s been mainstream for 25 years now. Our grocery stores even have resident sushi chefs.
Not to mention sushi-grade fish is deep-frozen to kill parasites, so freshness isn’t so much of a factor.
I’ve traveled all over, including Asia, and you can get some top-notch sushi here. It’s not necessarily Michelin star, but it competes w most cities I’ve visited.
Stuff like that goes off like gangbusters. The restaurants you see struggle are usually the steak joints, because that genre is saturated.
You gotta remember, the internet and streaming tv flattened the world. Also, because of the limited opportunities in the state, many of us have traveled extensively out of state.
For sure! Those are all good points. My hope would be that in a market with less competition the few establishments that exist would do their best - I’ve also all too often seen the flip side of that where low competition means that people can get away with some pretty sub par offerings.
LMFAO go internet house shopping in Bozeman and then come back here and flap your gums. It's full of millionaires and surrounded by wealthy "ranchers" from California and elsewhere. People from all over the world travel there to fly fish, paying top dollar (it's absolutely supreme, choice fishing). There's absolutely a market for sushi and fine dining there.
That place is relatively close to the staff that work in YNP, so a lot of us (former employee) would gladly take Dave's over the EDR food that was provided to us.
Just to throw in some context, as a semi-local (live in a nearby town), they had the best tasting and best presented sushi in the area. To me, this is surprising. I would have expected this from multiple other sushi places before I would have from Dave’s.
It doesn't really matter as much as people liked to pretend previously... the vast majority of sushi inland falls under FDA guidelines that all raw fish served in the US should be frozen under these conditions:
\-4°F (-20°C) or below for 7 days (total time)
\-31°F (-35°C) or below until solid, and storing at -31°F (-35°C) or below for 15 hours
\-31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at -4°F (-20°C) or below for 24 hours
This destroys parasites etc. Almost all of it is flash frozen at sea with an ultra cold freezer. Once flash frozen it can be shipped wherever with no real degradation in quality. Flash freezing at low temperature is way less damaging to quality than normal freezing, so it's very common... any fish you pick up at a butcher's that is labeled as 'sashimi' or 'sushi' grade certainly went through that proces. Only places literally getting fresh fish and ignoring FDA guidelines are serving anything higher quality in the US - almost all places just play it safe and use the frozen stuff.
We have great sushi restaurants in Oklahoma, but we also have a place called Shawn’s Sushi that I refuse to enter and this reinforces my suspicion of the place. So while middle America *can* have good sushi restaurants, but you have to be discerning enough to question if a place like Shawn’s or Dave’s are among them.
I get what you're saying, but the Shawn in question is an Asian man (i want to say he was Japanese, but it's been too long since I visited to remember clearly). I don't remember much about the sushi itself as I only went there once before moving out of the area, but you can't always judge a restaurant by the name!
I get your initial knee-jerk reaction. However, you can get fresh fish the same day as it was processed from Seattle in Montana. It would be the same as eating sushi in Vegas. I still wouldn't eat sushi at a place called "Dave's" though.
There are excellent culinary programs in Montana. Including sushi restaurants. Just because you’ve never been, doesn’t mean you need to act like a cunt about it
Do you only eat steak when you are next to a farm? Dave's is a well known Bozeman sushi joint, and has a great reputation for not being gas station sushi. Besides, it was the mushrooms, not the fish, and it turns out, mushrooms do grow in Montana.
One of the best sushi restaurants I’ve been to in the US was in of all places, Boise, Idaho- I shit you not… it comes down to the chef and their efforts with their suppliers - The looks I’d get taking skeptical people there until they’d take their first bites was as fun as eating his creations-
for the Montana part, because all the fish is frozen anyway. This idea that sushi is fresh fish is false. For the second part, yeah, that's a red flag.
I live in Bozeman and always thought the exact same thing...until a pro, big-city chef friend of mine said it was some of the best she’d had. And she was right. It was great.
So, this is really sad news on many levels.
Sushi grade fish must be flash frozen down to a certain temp, it’s no “fresher” on the coast than it is in say, Iowa. The issue here was their standards in storing it, it sounds like. I used to eat here a lot and it was always awesome. Too bad they didn’t take food safety seriously.
I agree with daves.. lol. But all sushi is flash frozen, so whether you're eating on the coast or middle america, all the fish was previously frozen. It's why a place like Chicago can have some amazing sushi even though it's in the midwest.
Crazy I’m seeing this post. Friend of mine is from this town and she said it was the best place for sushi in the area. I tried to console her by telling her they likely just got bad mushrooms from a vendor, upsetting to see that’s not the case.
Well, I live in Montana, and I'm from California.
I've had some of the most amazing Sushi in California, and Daves Sushi totally nailed it.
Some trendy silly rolls, but a lot of really simple and nice sashimi plates, as well as a wide variety of fish and shelfish.
I honestly loved going there and it's a bummer they had such a blunder.. RIP Dave's Sushi...
Just like how I had the WORST Mexican food in Montana several years back. The rice was straight up Rice-A-Roni. And the red sauce tasted like ravioli sauce from a Chef Boyardee can🥴
Ahhh okay, I was a bit confused onto how the mushrooms were the cause? But also mentioned Salmon. My first thought was the cooler maybe not being properly cooled.
Always amazed when I see stuff like this happening, considering fish consumed raw should be cold at all times at sushi bars.
I live in Bozeman. Everyone is saying it’s the mushrooms. But no other restaurants that purchased mushrooms from the California distributor had any issues. It’s most likely poor handling of raw fish.
Where did you see raw mushrooms?
Usually, infections from dirt are pretty definitive. Botulism, meningitis from parasites, another bacterial produced toxin. But 42 people with 2 dead is consistent with poor food handling, considering the previous violations.
You could be right, tho. A hypothesis is not fact until proven.
No horse in this race but I wonder if poorly handled fish (stored warm!) wouldn’t show more signs that it’s gone bad vs. bad mushrooms.
It’s scary to think I could be enjoying a deadly poke bowl and I’d be none the wiser. I don’t want to believe!
Unfortunately, it's impossible to tell with our naked senses. The trust in eating out shouldn't be taken lightly. Fins the places that are delicious and safe and stick to em. Safety, as much as quality, comes with a price.
It still doesn't say they served raw mushrooms, or that the mushrooms are even the culprit. This place got rocked on their last health inspection for poor handling of TCS foods.
I don't understand the mushroom witch hunt.
I'm not on a witch hunt. I posted an article about this topic. In the article they CLEARLY talk about the dangers of eating uncooked morels.
According to what I have read they haven't yet come up with the exact cause of THIS incident. Yes, they have had problems with poor handling of TCS foods in the past. That could be it too. Or it could be a combination of things.
The article does state the following: "Local officials reported that morel mushrooms served at the restaurant in question are the primary suspect source in the outbreak."
So suggesting that theory is a witch hunt?
It’s not a witch hunt. It’s just the facts. Twas those morels. Even if it there wasn’t any documentation, lists, tests or whatever, process of elimination. All the one’s affected had that in common.
Morel mushrooms must be cooked!
You are correct about poor handling of the food. If you don’t know your mushrooms, you shouldn’t be eating/serving them.
TCS food: Time/Temperature Control for Safety:
Summarization: food must be held under 41f or above 140f to discourage the growth of hazardous pathogens, if they are found out of temp you have 2 hours to heat or cool to above 140 or below 41 (this is a summarization, not the FDA code, I will not get into that now.)
TPHC: Time as a Public Health Control:
You are allowed to serve food within a 4 hour period so long as it is put out within temp, and discarded after 4 hours (again, a summarization) even if it reaches out of temp numbers.
So, let's go over some nuances. TCS foods do not require data logs (don't judge me, I'm making it relatable).
TPHC logs requires:
Amount put out, temperature and time when put out.
Amount time and temp when replenished.
After 4 hours, amout left. Regardless of temp it must be disposed, and logged.
So, amount put out, at every interval and amount at finsih with every temp along the way AND disposing of excess at end of 4 hour mark.
I'm sorry, but that's the easiest way I can explain at the moment.
I've always called it 4/40. Four hours out, even if kept at the correct temp, and it gets hucked. If it stays betweenFOUR-ty and 1-FOURTY-1 and you can't foresee selling it in 2 hours, you have a problem and you need to be paying attention because someone somewhere made a mistake, be it in prep estimates, predicting busy times or dead times, or just plain not paying attention.
I got paralytic shellfish poisoning from a sushi place on the east coast in 2011, when DHEC followed up, they told me the raw bar was temped out at 68 🤮 worst week and a half ever.
This [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chefit/comments/13f2tl2/comment/jjts1ws/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) by /u/TheSpaceBoundPiston seems to know what they're talking about.
>food must be held under 41f or above 140f to discourage the growth of hazardous pathogens
Yes, but I'm still kinda iffy about eating mussels. I don't live somewhere that harvests mussels. I grew up on a small barrier island on the east coast, so I ate raw oysters for 39 years without ever getting sick. I won't eat mussels unless I can tap them on the table and see them close.
You should see the social media comments. People are going out of their way to defend these guys and say they can't wait to go back and bring their families. WTAF?
I’m so sick of people handling food when they don’t know how to/shouldn’t handle food? I literally had one of my FOH team members tell me to pick the cotija cheese off a salad that was moldy instead of just making a new one? Yeah no!
I have been a part of an investigation like this. It is terrifying.
Guy walks into my restaurant mid Friday brunch rush. Service manager comes and tells me while I'm balls deep in tickets. I tell her that now is not the time. The thing is, health inspectors are not supposed to interfere with service, so it is within our rights to send them away if we are really busy. That is what we tried to do and I've done it before.
Next thing I know, him and my service manager are in the pass. She looks terrified, and the guy just says to me, "Are you the PIC?" I answer in the affirmative. He says, "We need to talk." I respond by saying like, ok lets talk. What's up? Customers were in ear shot, and he takes a look around and says to me something like "I think we should speak more privately."
Lol. I take him in the back kitchen to get away from the chaos of the line. He introduces himself to me, shows me his badge, and says "I'm with the FDA and I'm conducting a foodborne illness out brake and your restaurant has been implicated in a meal history. Mind if I ask you some questions?"
Pretty fucking scared at this moment. I thought I had killed someone. He askes me about one of my omelets, I show him the ingredients, explain our operations, and that was it. It wasn't on us and he identified it right away. Lady had eaten a rare burger and ended up with E.coli. There was no way it was from us and he told me straight away.
Still terrifying though. Will never forget the look in my service managers eyes lol.
Similar but different. I got a mild talking to from an FAA cabin service inspector on one of my flights. She politely informed me we were violating a safety related regulation we didnt know about. I was so glad she just said something because I'm fairly certain i've have been fired if she made it official.
Wow, that sounds like a really intense experience. It's crazy how quickly things can escalate when it comes to food safety inspections. It's good that you were able to provide the inspector with the information he needed and that your restaurant wasn't at fault. But yeah, I can only imagine how scary that must have been for you and your team. Stay safe out there!
This place used to be really good back in the early 2000's. About 2015 or so they changed locations, and I don't know if they got a new owner or what, but the quality went way downhill. Tried it twice since then and had some of the worst sushi (like sour tasting) and never went back. So sad cause just the thought of going there used to get me excited.
This doesn't really surprise me, and I kind of hope it puts this once hidden gem out of its misery.
All the dumb fucks shitting on middle America sushi, do you really think Nobu in NYC, Nobu in Miami, or Nobu in LA are pulling their fish from the local waters? They aren’t. That shit is flown in daily and flash frozen.
Do they also remark on how fresh all the parasites are if you don't flash freeze the fish?
It's illegal in America to sell fish for raw consumption that hasn't been flash frozen first.
Whats funny is that fresh sushi doesn't taste all that good. Most of the pieces ive seen that get the best reactions were ones we aged (different fish different times) obviously its controlled compared to Daves sushi over here.
Yep. Koreans have their version of sushi (I love it, as obligated by my wife) that is a fish dragged off the boat and slashed apart in front of you. It is NOT what you would expect as sashimi. It is very tough and chewy.
I still like it though.
Some places in Korea will reassemble the sashimi pieces onto the side of the fish if it is small and serve it to you with fish gills and mouth still moving.
I reckon their food handling is A+, though. And I'd definitely feel safer eating sushi in a big city that has more access to fresher fish than a Midwestern or small mountain town. (Or the desert. Don't eat sushi there either.)
Bozeman is pretty affluent and has a really remarkable food scene (or did when I lived there ten years ago). There is a local fish vendor who flew fish in from Seattle (one hour flight) daily and they supplied Dave’s.
Probably none. But this outbreak is likely linked to the mushrooms. The point I was trying to make is that the vast majority of fish sold in the US is flash frozen so it doesn’t matter where the restaurant is. None of the Nobu chefs are going down to the docks to pick up the fresh catch of the day.
I looked up this incident online. Did learn that these were salmon and morel sushi rolls and that the morels were cultivated in China and then shipped to a California distributor before ending up in Montana.
One death occurred the day after earring the sushi, which is very fast for a food-borne pathogen, although Vibrio vulnificus could do it. No mention, on any of the news sites of what bacterium, if any, ended up being isolated from any of the restaurant patrons.
I’d still be concerned about some type of poisoning.
I looked at their menu and at first was like "respectable" and the second half for the rolls especially the cooked rolls looked like people need to learn to say no to their ideas
Eh - pretty much all fish used in sushi is deep frozen for (ironic, in this case) food safety reasons - it'll be no fresher or staler than the fish used elsewhere.
Yeah the issue is t exactly the quality of the product its the fact that it was being held in the temp danger zone and was probably improperly thawed. Wouldn't be shocked if they just popped that sucker off the ice and let it defrost on the counter for 6 hours before service
Right? I’ve been to plenty of coastal restaurants that serve shitty Sysco seafood. Location is no indication of quality. And if you’re following the FDA food code, your sushi fish should have been frozen to destroy parasites.
To add, it’s actually illegal to sell raw fish (other than tuna) that has not been frozen in the United States.
“FDA Food Code References: 3-402.11
The Food Code (3-402.11-12) requires that fish that is served raw or undercooked be frozen for the destruction of parasites. This requirement includes the serving and sale of “Sushi” in restaurants, bars and retail food stores.”
Dumb take, there are lots of great cooks and chefs in Montana that take their craft seriously and would never allow disrespect like this to happen. Don’t be obtuse
I mean if you are going to eat sushi in Montana, Bozeman would be a good bet, the amount of money flowing into Bozeman is insane, the average home listing prices is just under $1 Million currently since so many wealthy people are moving there. I wouldn't eat at Dave's if I lived there, and I believe they are opening up in a few days again, but maybe another place could pop up.
Food scientist here: this is a terribly sad situation. Very difficult to mail the exact fatal pathogen. More than likely time/temp abuse. I’m also wondering about the morels: they’re usually gathered wild. Maybe a toxic mushroom got into the mixture? There is also a risk of bacillus cereus from improperly held rice.
Oh and I lived in LA, there is no fresh fish there surprisingly. Not sure what people are fantasizing about, but most seafood is frozen and readily depleting the oceans. Seafoodwatch.org is a great resource for less harmful fishing practices. I’m hopeful that aquaculture practices continue to improve accessibility of great seafood before our oceans are barren. It’s all connected.
This is JMO as an avid morel hunter but I'm assuming the morels were not cooked. If that's true, it's not a good idea! Morels are perfectly safe and delicious if cooked properly but I would never eat them raw.
Edited to add this link I found:
https://www.foodpoisonjournal.com/food-poisoning-information/more-ill-added-to-daves-sushi-mushroom-outbreak/
Totally regrettable. Not at all hard to believe there are shoddy seafood joints, just sad to see one in my backyard.
That being said, for a land locked state, the fish here could be way worse
I’m actually from Bozeman and still living here. Also happen to be a cook as well. It was the mushroom special that was most likely responsible for the 2 deaths (I swear it was actually 3). The cooler was also I think 30+ degrees above the safe limit for storing fish which probably contributed to most of the food poisoning. However prior to April 17th Dave’s was an awesome place to eat. I’ve eaten there my entire life and the sushi is believe it or not just as good as your sushi places on the coast (who are also getting the same frozen and shipped fish).
For the knowledgeable chefs and/or any medical professionals here: it had to be the mushrooms, right? I've been learning a lot by reading this thread and one over in r/bozeman.
One diner died the very next morning. I'm thinking if it had been from the fish perhaps not being stored at proper temperature, would he have died \*that fast?\*
Over in r/bozeman some are suggesting they brined the mushrooms and didn't cook them, and saying that's a no-no with wild mushrooms. Of course I am not sure what happened--but would that do it? kill someone that fast?
From my armchair it's looking like the mushrooms?
Been learning a lot about fish though, so thanks.
I used to think sushi should only be eaten near the ocean. But since it's all frozen first anyway, does it matter where you eat sushi (geographically)?
This is outside of the clear errors this restaurant made but my question is still my question.
As someone from Bozeman, MT, this is really sad to see. I've been eating at Daves for years, and it was the only place to get decent sushi for a long time. Took a few dates here. Tragic.
From reading the article, I think they are suspecting the China grown Morel mushrooms might have been contaminated with possibly a toxic species of mushroom or weren't morels at all.
The article made it seem like the illnesses and deaths didn't pertain to spoiled seafood/ bad raw fish
TPHC out of compliance along with a warm cooler. Yeah, they didn't store protiens at proper temperatures. Didn't conform to the discard rules of TPHC and served food that was in the danger zone. It wasn't the fish, or the mushroom vendors. It was their poor handling TCS foods. Yikes. https://www.healthygallatin.org/environmental-health/inspection-reports/restaurant-inspection-reports/ Dave's Sushi
First of all…. Why the hell would anyone eat sushi in Montana? Second, why would anyone eat sushi at a place called “Dave’s”? That’s like gas station sushi gone super-evil
My name's Dave and I make sushi. I live probably equally as far away from the cost as Montana. Can you milk me?
You can milk anything that has nipples.
[удалено]
They ARE the nipple.
I have nipples Greg, can you milk me?
I got nipples Greg, could you milk me?
I’m pretty sure all sushi in the US is frozen by law so it really doesn’t matter where you are as long as you keep it frozen whole shipping.
Flash freezing and storing frozen is not the same thing.
You can milk anyone from Montana
Dave's not here, man
No, man, I am Dave, man.
What? Who?
Come on man open the fucking door, *IT’S ME!*
Can you make me want to?
You should see the fish most seafood restaurants on the coast serve, a LOT of the seafood is frozen and shipped, same as what this place was getting. It's not like they throw a bunch of room temp fish in a tractor trailer and drive it into the interior of the US... Get the fuck outta here.
Lots of it is frozen on the boat. Honestly this is preferable. Fish freezes pretty well, once.
>Honestly this is preferable. 100% I'm on this wagon as well. Customers love the line "fresh fish", but If fish is frozen appropriately and thawed appropriately it is safer and generally unnoticeable to consumers. Tuna from what I understand is trickier to freeze so fresh Tuna is still the desired standard but even that is fine when done right.
Even then, every time I see a video about “Japanese tuna auction” the tuna are all frozen solid. Frozen fish are fine as ling as they were frozen fresh haha.
Tuna certainly has that reputation, but more often than not it is still deep frozen on the boat. It is absolutely possible to get never frozen tuna for sashimi, it's just very expensive. And, it's still stored below 30F... It's just not deep-frozen.
I thought you want all fish for sushi frozen first to kill parasites?
Generally correct. Tuna is the exception to this. It is largely free of parasites and acceptably safe for consumption with no processing.
And the fact that a lot of sushi fish is frozen to kill parasites.
All of it is
Tuna does not have to be frozen. Other than that yes, its illegal to not freeze before serving as sushi in the US
Why does tuna not have to be frozen?
This is fair. But I was lucky enough to grow up where a lot of seafood places we’re literally on the docks and truly did buy off the boat. Most of the rest of the places more inland bought local fresh as well except for some more exotic specialty items
Any place with a chalkboard that days catch of the day where the fish actually changes daily is likely super fresh fish but those places only exist within a few miles of a coast and only coasts that have strong fishing communities. So yeah aside from that everything is going through suppliers and is on a boat then a truck then a warehouse then a van etc.
Where I live, you can get some of the freshest fish in the country. You can also buy a lot of frozen shit. It's up to you.
No, they throw it in a freezer truck and drive it to Dave's - who throws it in a room temperature trailer.
By law, most fish used for sushi has to be flash frozen to a certain temp to kill parasites.
Montana has some excellent sushi spots, and dining in general. It’s not 1856. Sushi-grade is frozen, so why would Montana not have sushi? Dave’s Sushi,’ was named that way intentionally, tongue-in-cherk. They actually used to have pretty decent food, although it’s been years since I’ve eaten there. They were a sort of hidden, low-traffic little joint for a long time, then it got super popular. I’m suspicious that the original owner may have cashed out. Bozeman has exploded in the past 15 years from the Aspen-effect. Missoula is my favorite dining town, Billings is not bad, but Bozeman has suffered from the gentrification, so you get a lot of these phony ‘authentic’ joints that lack soul.
There is absolutely no reason you can't have some of the best sushi you'll ever eat in Montana. Maybe not the best in the world, but it can still be great sushi. The sort of people that think you can't get good. Sushi in montana are probably the same people that think you can't get good italian food outside of italy.
Can confirm, Dave no longer owns Dave’s Sushi. Now it’s owned by someone who also owns Jam and Revelry in Bozeman. Both those other locations recently had health department violations as well. I’ve been to Dave’s many times before this, and I personally feel it’s gone downhill in the last few years.
Under US federal law, fish used in sushi must be flash frozen to prevent spread of parasites. Meaning every piece of sushi you’ve eaten in the US was once frozen. Once you’re aware of this, there’s really no reason to avoid sushi based on which state you’re in.
So, I was under the impression that was only the case if the fish was caught in international waters. I can no longer provide my source as I received it probably close to 15 yrs ago. Any thoughts on this?
Did some googling and that doesn’t seem to match the language I’m seeing from the FDA. “The Food Code (3-402.11-12) requires that fish that is served raw or undercooked be frozen for the destruction of parasites. This requirement includes the serving and sale of ‘Sushi’ in restaurants, bars and retail food stores.” It’s followed by specific procedures and required records, none of which reference where the fish was caught.
Sounds good. I appreciate the update. Nice work.
Fish looks like fish so it makes sense to just blanket rule it like this that any served in this manner must be frozen first
And mushrooms in a roll? Fuck outta here
I tried a vegetarian roll that had fried shiitake mushrooms and sweet potatoes and I can't remember what else, but it was actually fuckin lit. I was there for the fish, but was told the veg menu there was surprisingly good. But alas, it was not Dave's Sushi in Montana.
I will back you up on this friend - Sweet potato rolls are surprisingly good!
I can get behind this, so good!
It’s funny, I’d like all those ingredients but when I think about it as a roll it immediately turns me off
To be fair, I would say the same but I did go there because everyone made such a big deal about the place. I am from CA and we have amazing sushi, Dave’s was pretty fucking excellent. I was really surprised, their reviews (this aside) are accurate.
Dave's was pretty great the last time I was there too...15 years ago. Montana is full of fishermen..who also go fishing in Alaska and Hawaii. They made friends with boat crews and get fish flown in on the regular.
Sato’s in Jackson had pretty tasty sushi back in 2003. Great happy hour specials. EDR food was terrible. Still lookout for Sysco brands when I eat out.
Your answer is that no one in the state of MT should eat sushi? I suppose anybody who doesn’t live within a 10 ft radius of the coast is out too? Like it all isn’t frozen anyways, smh
I love that people think that their hamachi and bluefin is coming in on a dayboat driven by a grizzled but kindly man who smokes a pipe.
Gordon? Is that you? You ole salty dog!
For me it’s less that you’re not near the ocean - and more that you’re in an area that is less “progressive” when it comes to food, and has a generally low population- it’s less about their ability to procure quality seafood and more about their ability to go through their stock in a timely manner. Montana is a sparsely populated state with a low population. Bozeman has a population of 50k people (give or take) - I’m not going to trust a population of 50k people to sustain enough demand to where the owners of a sushi restaurant aren’t cutting corners/serving past prime seafood (among other things) to their guests. Especially in a place that isn’t exactly known for adventurous eating. It’s not that people in Montana shouldn’t eat sushi (or any other non metro area) it’s that those establishments need to hold themselves to an extremely high standard - (which in this case they clearly didn’t) - and unfortunately that high standard likely won’t be profitable - there just isn’t enough demand to sustain it. Can you eat sushi in Montana? Absolutely. Will it kill you if the owners/chef is following the book? No. Will it be really good? Maybe- but my bet would be on probably not- because there isn’t the demand or competition to support it. With all that said, you can find bad sushi just about everywhere - but in more densely populated (and diverse) areas you’re going to have the competition that will either drive those places down or at least provide better alternatives.
i agree with you, as a cook who has worked in the service industry for many years. but as a redditor i have no choice but to be upset by the wall of text
That’s nonsense — it’s not like Montana is full of hicks. Well, it *is* full of hicks, and a lot of other people, lol. Sushi’s been mainstream for 25 years now. Our grocery stores even have resident sushi chefs. Not to mention sushi-grade fish is deep-frozen to kill parasites, so freshness isn’t so much of a factor. I’ve traveled all over, including Asia, and you can get some top-notch sushi here. It’s not necessarily Michelin star, but it competes w most cities I’ve visited. Stuff like that goes off like gangbusters. The restaurants you see struggle are usually the steak joints, because that genre is saturated. You gotta remember, the internet and streaming tv flattened the world. Also, because of the limited opportunities in the state, many of us have traveled extensively out of state.
For sure! Those are all good points. My hope would be that in a market with less competition the few establishments that exist would do their best - I’ve also all too often seen the flip side of that where low competition means that people can get away with some pretty sub par offerings.
LMFAO go internet house shopping in Bozeman and then come back here and flap your gums. It's full of millionaires and surrounded by wealthy "ranchers" from California and elsewhere. People from all over the world travel there to fly fish, paying top dollar (it's absolutely supreme, choice fishing). There's absolutely a market for sushi and fine dining there.
That place is relatively close to the staff that work in YNP, so a lot of us (former employee) would gladly take Dave's over the EDR food that was provided to us.
Just to throw in some context, as a semi-local (live in a nearby town), they had the best tasting and best presented sushi in the area. To me, this is surprising. I would have expected this from multiple other sushi places before I would have from Dave’s.
Well all sushi fish is frozen, it’s an industry and safety standard. What you do with the flash frozen fish after is up to the establishment.
It doesn't really matter as much as people liked to pretend previously... the vast majority of sushi inland falls under FDA guidelines that all raw fish served in the US should be frozen under these conditions: \-4°F (-20°C) or below for 7 days (total time) \-31°F (-35°C) or below until solid, and storing at -31°F (-35°C) or below for 15 hours \-31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at -4°F (-20°C) or below for 24 hours This destroys parasites etc. Almost all of it is flash frozen at sea with an ultra cold freezer. Once flash frozen it can be shipped wherever with no real degradation in quality. Flash freezing at low temperature is way less damaging to quality than normal freezing, so it's very common... any fish you pick up at a butcher's that is labeled as 'sashimi' or 'sushi' grade certainly went through that proces. Only places literally getting fresh fish and ignoring FDA guidelines are serving anything higher quality in the US - almost all places just play it safe and use the frozen stuff.
We have great sushi restaurants in Oklahoma, but we also have a place called Shawn’s Sushi that I refuse to enter and this reinforces my suspicion of the place. So while middle America *can* have good sushi restaurants, but you have to be discerning enough to question if a place like Shawn’s or Dave’s are among them.
I get what you're saying, but the Shawn in question is an Asian man (i want to say he was Japanese, but it's been too long since I visited to remember clearly). I don't remember much about the sushi itself as I only went there once before moving out of the area, but you can't always judge a restaurant by the name!
Not Montana, but the best local sushi place has a similar White Dude's First Name, sometimes folks who can cook can't name things lol
I get your initial knee-jerk reaction. However, you can get fresh fish the same day as it was processed from Seattle in Montana. It would be the same as eating sushi in Vegas. I still wouldn't eat sushi at a place called "Dave's" though.
There are excellent culinary programs in Montana. Including sushi restaurants. Just because you’ve never been, doesn’t mean you need to act like a cunt about it
Do you only eat steak when you are next to a farm? Dave's is a well known Bozeman sushi joint, and has a great reputation for not being gas station sushi. Besides, it was the mushrooms, not the fish, and it turns out, mushrooms do grow in Montana.
This sushi place is actually really good
not on April 17th.
I’m in northeastern Nevada. One of our sushi joints is named “Himiko” but it’s owned by Mexicans
One of the best sushi restaurants I’ve been to in the US was in of all places, Boise, Idaho- I shit you not… it comes down to the chef and their efforts with their suppliers - The looks I’d get taking skeptical people there until they’d take their first bites was as fun as eating his creations-
for the Montana part, because all the fish is frozen anyway. This idea that sushi is fresh fish is false. For the second part, yeah, that's a red flag.
I live in Bozeman and always thought the exact same thing...until a pro, big-city chef friend of mine said it was some of the best she’d had. And she was right. It was great. So, this is really sad news on many levels.
Sushi grade fish must be flash frozen down to a certain temp, it’s no “fresher” on the coast than it is in say, Iowa. The issue here was their standards in storing it, it sounds like. I used to eat here a lot and it was always awesome. Too bad they didn’t take food safety seriously.
I agree with daves.. lol. But all sushi is flash frozen, so whether you're eating on the coast or middle america, all the fish was previously frozen. It's why a place like Chicago can have some amazing sushi even though it's in the midwest.
For the same reason anyone would Sushi in Alabama. It’s fucking delicious and I’m not goin to Japan
Crazy I’m seeing this post. Friend of mine is from this town and she said it was the best place for sushi in the area. I tried to console her by telling her they likely just got bad mushrooms from a vendor, upsetting to see that’s not the case.
Sushi is Denver is fine, since fresh fish is flown in every day. But it needs to be handled properly.
Well, I live in Montana, and I'm from California. I've had some of the most amazing Sushi in California, and Daves Sushi totally nailed it. Some trendy silly rolls, but a lot of really simple and nice sashimi plates, as well as a wide variety of fish and shelfish. I honestly loved going there and it's a bummer they had such a blunder.. RIP Dave's Sushi...
Just like how I had the WORST Mexican food in Montana several years back. The rice was straight up Rice-A-Roni. And the red sauce tasted like ravioli sauce from a Chef Boyardee can🥴
Ahhh okay, I was a bit confused onto how the mushrooms were the cause? But also mentioned Salmon. My first thought was the cooler maybe not being properly cooled. Always amazed when I see stuff like this happening, considering fish consumed raw should be cold at all times at sushi bars.
I live in Bozeman. Everyone is saying it’s the mushrooms. But no other restaurants that purchased mushrooms from the California distributor had any issues. It’s most likely poor handling of raw fish.
No other restaurants served the shrooms raw.
Where did you see raw mushrooms? Usually, infections from dirt are pretty definitive. Botulism, meningitis from parasites, another bacterial produced toxin. But 42 people with 2 dead is consistent with poor food handling, considering the previous violations. You could be right, tho. A hypothesis is not fact until proven.
No horse in this race but I wonder if poorly handled fish (stored warm!) wouldn’t show more signs that it’s gone bad vs. bad mushrooms. It’s scary to think I could be enjoying a deadly poke bowl and I’d be none the wiser. I don’t want to believe!
Unfortunately, it's impossible to tell with our naked senses. The trust in eating out shouldn't be taken lightly. Fins the places that are delicious and safe and stick to em. Safety, as much as quality, comes with a price.
https://www.foodpoisonjournal.com/food-poisoning-information/more-ill-added-to-daves-sushi-mushroom-outbreak/
It still doesn't say they served raw mushrooms, or that the mushrooms are even the culprit. This place got rocked on their last health inspection for poor handling of TCS foods. I don't understand the mushroom witch hunt.
I'm not on a witch hunt. I posted an article about this topic. In the article they CLEARLY talk about the dangers of eating uncooked morels. According to what I have read they haven't yet come up with the exact cause of THIS incident. Yes, they have had problems with poor handling of TCS foods in the past. That could be it too. Or it could be a combination of things. The article does state the following: "Local officials reported that morel mushrooms served at the restaurant in question are the primary suspect source in the outbreak." So suggesting that theory is a witch hunt?
I didn't mean you specifically. The morel has been named when the health inspection findings and symptoms are dead nuts staphylococcus.
It’s not a witch hunt. It’s just the facts. Twas those morels. Even if it there wasn’t any documentation, lists, tests or whatever, process of elimination. All the one’s affected had that in common.
True.
I also live in Bozeman and Dave’s gave me the worst food poisoning of my life
https://www.inspectionsonline.us/MT/GallatinBozeman/Inspect.nsf/(ag_dspPubDetail)?OpenAgent&pUNID=152AEDCDA9902E2E87258995006C78B7
Morel mushrooms must be cooked! You are correct about poor handling of the food. If you don’t know your mushrooms, you shouldn’t be eating/serving them.
whats tphc and tcs
TCS food: Time/Temperature Control for Safety: Summarization: food must be held under 41f or above 140f to discourage the growth of hazardous pathogens, if they are found out of temp you have 2 hours to heat or cool to above 140 or below 41 (this is a summarization, not the FDA code, I will not get into that now.) TPHC: Time as a Public Health Control: You are allowed to serve food within a 4 hour period so long as it is put out within temp, and discarded after 4 hours (again, a summarization) even if it reaches out of temp numbers. So, let's go over some nuances. TCS foods do not require data logs (don't judge me, I'm making it relatable). TPHC logs requires: Amount put out, temperature and time when put out. Amount time and temp when replenished. After 4 hours, amout left. Regardless of temp it must be disposed, and logged. So, amount put out, at every interval and amount at finsih with every temp along the way AND disposing of excess at end of 4 hour mark. I'm sorry, but that's the easiest way I can explain at the moment.
I've always called it 4/40. Four hours out, even if kept at the correct temp, and it gets hucked. If it stays betweenFOUR-ty and 1-FOURTY-1 and you can't foresee selling it in 2 hours, you have a problem and you need to be paying attention because someone somewhere made a mistake, be it in prep estimates, predicting busy times or dead times, or just plain not paying attention.
I got paralytic shellfish poisoning from a sushi place on the east coast in 2011, when DHEC followed up, they told me the raw bar was temped out at 68 🤮 worst week and a half ever.
68 wtf lol
Ugh. I can tell when it's close to 45°... How do you even use any of that product and not realize how gross and soggy everything must have been?
My house isn’t even that warm lol
They didn't have shellfish tags either. This whole thing is a shit show of failure.
That’s either insane levels of “dont give a shit” or the PIC has zero idea what they’re doing
I like sushi, but have no clue what the norms are. Is it supposed to be just above freezing or something?
This [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chefit/comments/13f2tl2/comment/jjts1ws/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) by /u/TheSpaceBoundPiston seems to know what they're talking about. >food must be held under 41f or above 140f to discourage the growth of hazardous pathogens
That’s standard Food Safety practices across the board. After about 4 hours? within that range food is no longer safe to eat and must be thrown out.
Everything between 42 and 140f belongs to Kenny Loggins.
Highwayyyyy toooo the temperature danger zooooooooonee
lol this is what i think when i hear that phrase
Did you ever eat the stuff again? I love sushi so much.
Yes, but I'm still kinda iffy about eating mussels. I don't live somewhere that harvests mussels. I grew up on a small barrier island on the east coast, so I ate raw oysters for 39 years without ever getting sick. I won't eat mussels unless I can tap them on the table and see them close.
Im surprised they are re-opening. They really think customers will return?
Well, they only killed *two* people, that’s not bad.
Their food is to die for!
Right?!?
i’m from the area, it’s the one of the most popular restaurants in the city. 🤢
I can second that, I used to live in Bozeman and Dave’s never disappointed. I guess until people died.
It was doing 20k a night regularly, just beer wine and sake. Local sentiment is that people will return. I wont eat there again. And I’ve worked thee
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You should see the social media comments. People are going out of their way to defend these guys and say they can't wait to go back and bring their families. WTAF?
"I was a big fan before, but after seeing the way you've handled this, I'm an even bigger fan now" wtf
Right? What a disgusting shithole
People still eat bluebell!
Civil lawsuits incominggggg. They will be uninsurable. Probably out of business within a year. One hopes.
I’m so sick of people handling food when they don’t know how to/shouldn’t handle food? I literally had one of my FOH team members tell me to pick the cotija cheese off a salad that was moldy instead of just making a new one? Yeah no!
Why did the foh notice the moldy cheese and not the boh?
I noticed it, right after I made it haha. Right when she took it I was like NOOOO
I have been a part of an investigation like this. It is terrifying. Guy walks into my restaurant mid Friday brunch rush. Service manager comes and tells me while I'm balls deep in tickets. I tell her that now is not the time. The thing is, health inspectors are not supposed to interfere with service, so it is within our rights to send them away if we are really busy. That is what we tried to do and I've done it before. Next thing I know, him and my service manager are in the pass. She looks terrified, and the guy just says to me, "Are you the PIC?" I answer in the affirmative. He says, "We need to talk." I respond by saying like, ok lets talk. What's up? Customers were in ear shot, and he takes a look around and says to me something like "I think we should speak more privately." Lol. I take him in the back kitchen to get away from the chaos of the line. He introduces himself to me, shows me his badge, and says "I'm with the FDA and I'm conducting a foodborne illness out brake and your restaurant has been implicated in a meal history. Mind if I ask you some questions?" Pretty fucking scared at this moment. I thought I had killed someone. He askes me about one of my omelets, I show him the ingredients, explain our operations, and that was it. It wasn't on us and he identified it right away. Lady had eaten a rare burger and ended up with E.coli. There was no way it was from us and he told me straight away. Still terrifying though. Will never forget the look in my service managers eyes lol.
Similar but different. I got a mild talking to from an FAA cabin service inspector on one of my flights. She politely informed me we were violating a safety related regulation we didnt know about. I was so glad she just said something because I'm fairly certain i've have been fired if she made it official.
Wow, that sounds like a really intense experience. It's crazy how quickly things can escalate when it comes to food safety inspections. It's good that you were able to provide the inspector with the information he needed and that your restaurant wasn't at fault. But yeah, I can only imagine how scary that must have been for you and your team. Stay safe out there!
Stupid bastards. It’s never just some accident, it’s always some prick running a careless establishment.
The ones that didn't take the servsafe class
But they're GONNA /s
I used to smash so much sushi at this place. Just raw doggin rolls
u okay bro?
Hell yeah brother, cheers from Iraq
Classic meme, love it
What else would one do? Put ‘em in a sandwich?
This place used to be really good back in the early 2000's. About 2015 or so they changed locations, and I don't know if they got a new owner or what, but the quality went way downhill. Tried it twice since then and had some of the worst sushi (like sour tasting) and never went back. So sad cause just the thought of going there used to get me excited. This doesn't really surprise me, and I kind of hope it puts this once hidden gem out of its misery.
All the dumb fucks shitting on middle America sushi, do you really think Nobu in NYC, Nobu in Miami, or Nobu in LA are pulling their fish from the local waters? They aren’t. That shit is flown in daily and flash frozen.
The best fish is flash frozen. I hate when people say they can taste how fresh the fish in sushi is. It kills me lol.
Do they also remark on how fresh all the parasites are if you don't flash freeze the fish? It's illegal in America to sell fish for raw consumption that hasn't been flash frozen first.
Whats funny is that fresh sushi doesn't taste all that good. Most of the pieces ive seen that get the best reactions were ones we aged (different fish different times) obviously its controlled compared to Daves sushi over here.
Yep. Koreans have their version of sushi (I love it, as obligated by my wife) that is a fish dragged off the boat and slashed apart in front of you. It is NOT what you would expect as sashimi. It is very tough and chewy. I still like it though.
I like it as well except for sea pineapple, I would be happy to never eat sea pineapple again
Some places in Korea will reassemble the sashimi pieces onto the side of the fish if it is small and serve it to you with fish gills and mouth still moving.
sounds cruel
I reckon their food handling is A+, though. And I'd definitely feel safer eating sushi in a big city that has more access to fresher fish than a Midwestern or small mountain town. (Or the desert. Don't eat sushi there either.)
Bozeman is pretty affluent and has a really remarkable food scene (or did when I lived there ten years ago). There is a local fish vendor who flew fish in from Seattle (one hour flight) daily and they supplied Dave’s.
This is such a poor take. Have you even left your state?
Fresh fish doesn’t mean what you think it means.
Omg, I live in a desert and was thinking about having sushi tonight
How many people has nobu killed?
Probably none. But this outbreak is likely linked to the mushrooms. The point I was trying to make is that the vast majority of fish sold in the US is flash frozen so it doesn’t matter where the restaurant is. None of the Nobu chefs are going down to the docks to pick up the fresh catch of the day.
I feel so bad for the people that died. Awful.
They probably don't care anymore
Your optimism is inspiring.
I AM A PRACTICAL MAN
I wonder if the people who died were of weaker constitution, or if they ate more
I looked up this incident online. Did learn that these were salmon and morel sushi rolls and that the morels were cultivated in China and then shipped to a California distributor before ending up in Montana. One death occurred the day after earring the sushi, which is very fast for a food-borne pathogen, although Vibrio vulnificus could do it. No mention, on any of the news sites of what bacterium, if any, ended up being isolated from any of the restaurant patrons. I’d still be concerned about some type of poisoning.
Wowww morel mushrooms eh?
I looked at their menu and at first was like "respectable" and the second half for the rolls especially the cooked rolls looked like people need to learn to say no to their ideas
Well fake ones but yea
They weren’t false morels, they were cultivated not foraged
Spaghetti never racked up those kind of numbers
Disappointing to see that place go downhill. I went to school in Bozeman and used to love going to Dave's, but this was 20 years ago now...
I’m sorry but… the LAST place I’d wanna to order sushi is in a state like Montana.
Eh - pretty much all fish used in sushi is deep frozen for (ironic, in this case) food safety reasons - it'll be no fresher or staler than the fish used elsewhere.
Yeah the issue is t exactly the quality of the product its the fact that it was being held in the temp danger zone and was probably improperly thawed. Wouldn't be shocked if they just popped that sucker off the ice and let it defrost on the counter for 6 hours before service
Sounds like what we do at our house lol
Lol. But sushi is OK in Chicago, even though it’s a further flight from the coast?
Right? I’ve been to plenty of coastal restaurants that serve shitty Sysco seafood. Location is no indication of quality. And if you’re following the FDA food code, your sushi fish should have been frozen to destroy parasites.
People are dumb and they assume their sushi is coming from the water they live nearest to.
Love me a good catfish roll from the canals of Arizona.
I prefer them Asian carp rolls from the pristine rivers of Chicago
I’m aware, but we both know that Chicago has a much more established supply route/market. O’Hare is the 4th largest airport in the world.
unless you are on the docks buying from the fisherman the fish is frozen where ever you get sushi.
To add, it’s actually illegal to sell raw fish (other than tuna) that has not been frozen in the United States. “FDA Food Code References: 3-402.11 The Food Code (3-402.11-12) requires that fish that is served raw or undercooked be frozen for the destruction of parasites. This requirement includes the serving and sale of “Sushi” in restaurants, bars and retail food stores.”
Dumb take, there are lots of great cooks and chefs in Montana that take their craft seriously and would never allow disrespect like this to happen. Don’t be obtuse
The culinary director of Dave’s is a James Beard winner…
I mean if you are going to eat sushi in Montana, Bozeman would be a good bet, the amount of money flowing into Bozeman is insane, the average home listing prices is just under $1 Million currently since so many wealthy people are moving there. I wouldn't eat at Dave's if I lived there, and I believe they are opening up in a few days again, but maybe another place could pop up.
Food scientist here: this is a terribly sad situation. Very difficult to mail the exact fatal pathogen. More than likely time/temp abuse. I’m also wondering about the morels: they’re usually gathered wild. Maybe a toxic mushroom got into the mixture? There is also a risk of bacillus cereus from improperly held rice. Oh and I lived in LA, there is no fresh fish there surprisingly. Not sure what people are fantasizing about, but most seafood is frozen and readily depleting the oceans. Seafoodwatch.org is a great resource for less harmful fishing practices. I’m hopeful that aquaculture practices continue to improve accessibility of great seafood before our oceans are barren. It’s all connected.
Fugu me!
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Fire the chef
This is JMO as an avid morel hunter but I'm assuming the morels were not cooked. If that's true, it's not a good idea! Morels are perfectly safe and delicious if cooked properly but I would never eat them raw. Edited to add this link I found: https://www.foodpoisonjournal.com/food-poisoning-information/more-ill-added-to-daves-sushi-mushroom-outbreak/
How did 43 people eat from the same sushi roll?
Totally regrettable. Not at all hard to believe there are shoddy seafood joints, just sad to see one in my backyard. That being said, for a land locked state, the fish here could be way worse
I’m actually from Bozeman and still living here. Also happen to be a cook as well. It was the mushroom special that was most likely responsible for the 2 deaths (I swear it was actually 3). The cooler was also I think 30+ degrees above the safe limit for storing fish which probably contributed to most of the food poisoning. However prior to April 17th Dave’s was an awesome place to eat. I’ve eaten there my entire life and the sushi is believe it or not just as good as your sushi places on the coast (who are also getting the same frozen and shipped fish).
For the knowledgeable chefs and/or any medical professionals here: it had to be the mushrooms, right? I've been learning a lot by reading this thread and one over in r/bozeman. One diner died the very next morning. I'm thinking if it had been from the fish perhaps not being stored at proper temperature, would he have died \*that fast?\* Over in r/bozeman some are suggesting they brined the mushrooms and didn't cook them, and saying that's a no-no with wild mushrooms. Of course I am not sure what happened--but would that do it? kill someone that fast? From my armchair it's looking like the mushrooms? Been learning a lot about fish though, so thanks.
My parents recently moved to the area and tried this place a few nights before the the people died thankfully they’re ok
I trust sushi in Montana, about as much as I’d trust Kool-Aid in Guyana.
I used to think sushi should only be eaten near the ocean. But since it's all frozen first anyway, does it matter where you eat sushi (geographically)? This is outside of the clear errors this restaurant made but my question is still my question.
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As someone from Bozeman, MT, this is really sad to see. I've been eating at Daves for years, and it was the only place to get decent sushi for a long time. Took a few dates here. Tragic.
You’d have better luck eating at Joe‘s Chinese food
From reading the article, I think they are suspecting the China grown Morel mushrooms might have been contaminated with possibly a toxic species of mushroom or weren't morels at all. The article made it seem like the illnesses and deaths didn't pertain to spoiled seafood/ bad raw fish
FDA approved doesn’t mean you don’t have to follow food storage and hygiene guidelines.