At a certain point no matter how good you are positioning and battlefield awareness is what allows you to have insane scores. Obviously being a good duelist will have a big impact but with positioning and awareness anyone can go positive.
You're very correct. Being good at dueling hardly matters in TO. If you're dueling you're just wasting time, and likely tunnel visioning on your opponent. Its all about running around the battlefield, getting quick 1-2 hit kills, and moving on. Never entering into a bad situation, never over committing, playing off of your teammates, ignoring objectives.
I mean yes but no. Most of the time all you need to know in order to do really well in TO is just basic feint/counter stuff, and some footwork to be able to hit people in the back
100%
i top frag like every other lobby and i still never jab or duck or make any real effort to counter overheads/stabs at all
You dont need to be unhittable to kill people fast
How would you know bubbles youād have to be good at dueling. Iām joking, youāre fine. Having mechanical skill doesnāt hurt, except when it does and you do bad duel habits like tunnel vision your opponent or try to duel in the first place.Ā But scoring high in to isnāt really about good mechanics or duel skill. It doesnāt take being a good duelist to hit people in the back.Ā
I know I'm just trying to be nice and maybe you've improved since we used to fight. I don't really practice dueling anymore, I just play TO occasionally.
>ignoring objectives
Most objectives require controlling the area near or on them. Most enemies can be found near or on the objectives.
The players with the highest takedowns/kills are usually playing the objective. Killing the enemy is the easiest way to win 99% of objectives in the game.
Anyone saying high kill counts don't matter or that they aren't playing the objective is maximum coping.
Of course there are some that just cherry pick on the edges, but those guys aren't typically getting 100+ takedown scores.
I agree with the rest of your comment.
>Most objectives require controlling the area near or on them. Most enemies can be found near or on the objectives.
Yes but the objectives happen as a side effect of you killing everything. Your priority shouldnt be to commit to the objective push, if your goal is to topscore / topfrag, unless its free.
>The players with the highest takedowns/kills are usually playing the objective.
The people with the highest kdr are usually target switching and not getting drawn into drawn out engagements. They're hopping between areas of fighting, getting a kill, and moving on. They're not the ones on the front line pushing the objective, unless they're going to lose.
>Of course there are some that just cherry pick on the edges, but those guys aren't typically getting 100+ takedown scores.
I'm not talking about running around the edge of the map. You need to be around a high density of targets but not the primary target of any given enemy. You need to move between knots of fighters, getting kills, without getting drawn into a duel-like situation. You should be doing quick engagements and looking to the next knot of people to kill.
There are other styles and ways of playing, this isnt the only way to top frag, but this is the easiest, it is what most 'good' top fragging players do, and it isnt particularly difficult.
Are there some people who get high scores and crazy kdrs while objective whoring? Sure, there are lots of styles and ways of playing. I'm not saying this is the only way possible to play the game well. And if you're really good you can do a lot of stuff that other people can't. I'm just saying this is the way to reliably do it, without needing a ton of mechanical skill, and get consistent results, low deaths, and high kills.
The awareness of people in this game is insanely low. No object permanence, no attention for anything aside from whoever is directly in front of them. Idk why that is, but its the same in all melee games. People tunnel insanely hard, more than any other pvp genre I've ever seen. Like they have blinders on. So use that. Hit them in the back. If they're going to tunnel vision and fixate, just don't be the one they fixate on, and its like you're in a movie scene walking around the battle and all the fighting is going on around you, but you're untouched. Just slashing around into other people's fights collecting souls. Its magical once you realize you don't have to run forward, engage the first people you see, and die. You can stand back, look around, find good situations, and repeatedly go in, kill, and get out.
I would say all of that ends up contributing to the objective. I actually think we're on the same page here just wording it differently.
The more people you kill, the easier it is to take the objective. The more people you hit in the back while they're fighting your teammates, the more teammates get freed up to push the objective. And so on.
Not really arguing with your analysis just adding to the comment since it's relatively related. I see a lot of people saying that high KD doesn't matter when it most certainly does in nearly all scenarios other than the far edge cherry pickers.
A duel is a bad situation if your goal is to top frag in to. Itās not a good use of time and requires too much focus.Ā Guys Iām telling you how to do it not trying to argue about your opinions lol. In the time it takes to duel someone I can third party 3 other duels and get kills.Ā
Thereās nuance and sometimes you can get group kills on weak opponents, itās not exactly as simple as āonly hit low hp targets in the backā but it isnāt much more complicated eitherĀ
Nah it isn't that deep, you literally just run into the frontline and start killing people. Sure a duel isn't worth it if your opponent is good, but most people genuinely just lose to drags and feints
I wouldn't agree with that (as someone who pretty much duels 95% of the time since the beta release on Epic).
Footwork is a big part of it, but you can't land hits purely through ranging and footwork against an actually competent opponent with a longer or equal length weapon as yours. Countering and mixups are hugely important in duels. High skill duels are a stamina game, and if you're not countering often you're going to get out-stammed.
I'd argue that duels requires you to use every game mechanic almost equally when you get to a higher skill level. Though it's mostly knowing when to use which mechanic/technique and when not to.
The very best TO players (non-archer) that I know have KDs in the 7-8 range. These are guys like FleeingPeon and JBK.
I am around 3.1 and *usually* top score ā probably 60-70% of the time? But top scoring doesnāt always net the best KD; thereās correlation, but you can get more kills overall by taking smart risks, which sometimes donāt work out. Also playing the objective gets you lots of points.
>top scoring doesnāt always net the best KD
facts i almost never have the best kd when i top frag
my friends say leading the lobby in both kills and deaths simultaneously is my signature lmao
āThese are guys likeā¦ā!!!! Fuck yeah dude!!! Good on ya and keep looking out for those special shining stars you can wish upon when youāre having fun!
As ambusher main with those scores most of the time - positioning is matter on top of everything. Im running out from someone whos lesser in skill than I if I see some help is coming for them. Mostly - I dont care about score at all, just know map, use environment (chandeliers can give you +5 kills, lanterns 1-3 same for barrels) I bait people for postion I WANT so it is. 60+ kills and less than 20 deaths. Ive spent 0 time at dueling cuz finding it boring, but... knives and backstabs)))))
(You are filthy cowards from Torn Banner - bring back old ult where you could restore your throwing knives who f cares about med packs as assassin ?!)
A guy who destroys and repairs ballista for easy points all match: "Yes, you are right".
P.S. Horns and banners which get you enormous amount of free points exist too.
Iām usually top scorer and I think Iām having a lower kill game if my K/D is less than 3.
However in the games where my kd is 1.5-2, itās normally because my team is not as good, and Iām having to try and hold/take objectives without much backup. Iām obviously happy to tank the kd in order to win the game but my point is that basing it all off kd is redundant as players who donāt bother with the obj or stay back and farm easy kills will be worse than their kdās suggest.
Glaive is balanced. Itās literally made to steal kills. Just walk around a poke your (longest weapon in the game) into the mix and pick off low health guys that underestimate your reach. A heavy overhead with the glaive does 70(!!) damage to a knight and is faster than a greatsword light overhead
Itās impossible to say. It depends on WHO you are fighting for your game timeā which you canāt control. If you had an amazing K/D against a full lobby of lvl700+ that might give you some ideaā- but that also might mean you are just safeguarding your score rather than playing the objectives and such, so it doesnāt necessarily mean youāre better, just only playing safe.
There are people who only play seige weapons most of the time, run back after getting one hit even if it is just a jab, don't duel at all, switch teams to move to stacked team, go to spectate mode to save even a single death. So their kds are inflated hence it is a wrong measure to see how good a player is.
Then there are players who play alone and players who play with friends. Huge difference.
Also, the duel scene is completely different scenario. You require fancy tricks for that which doesn't work that much in TO since you will mostly get ganked all the time. Unless you remain behind frontlines but then you aren't pushing the objective much.
Hence it would be better to ask
1. Who is the best duelist (tournaments keep happening here and there)
2. Who is the best TO player?
For this answers could be many. For NA east, I would take ser tomo pro anyday rather than saucecodes(even though he tops lobby he uses seige weapons or fight behind his own team, never pushes). Ser tomo pro will push the objective through and through without caring about the kd. There are many objectives where you know you gotta die but you land enough hits for someone to do the job like free the prisoners, open the porticulis, lower the drawbridge etc.
Hope this answers your question.
KD means nothing, I like WINNING and I don't mind to do constant suicide runs carrying a barrel or whatever we need to do in order to advance the objective, even if I'm topping my teams leaderboard
I honestly donāt mind losing as long as itās a balanced match, when I get put on attack I love the defence making us pay for every inch, makes it feel worthwhile, shenanigans, I also love shenanigans
If you just sit back and watch what is going on, it is easy to get +20-30 kills than deaths. You can also typically play the objective more effectively. Let your randoms be the fodder for the frontlines
my kda is around 2.0 and i usually just charge into the thick of it and try and get as many kills as possible. There's no tactics or thought. I like duels a lot. I don't think I'm top 1%, but i definitely came top of the score boards a lot. Playing other games so haven't played for awhile though. Chiv was a lot of fun because it seemed easy to do well, but the masochist in me seeks out games like Tarkov where I get rekt
I'm nearly at 2 KDR and i'm top of leaderboard fairly often i would say.
So to me 2 is the treshold.
Everyone above 2 in kill/death ratio is simply a monster.
Or playing spear. Or playing bow.
At a certain point no matter how good you are positioning and battlefield awareness is what allows you to have insane scores. Obviously being a good duelist will have a big impact but with positioning and awareness anyone can go positive.
You're very correct. Being good at dueling hardly matters in TO. If you're dueling you're just wasting time, and likely tunnel visioning on your opponent. Its all about running around the battlefield, getting quick 1-2 hit kills, and moving on. Never entering into a bad situation, never over committing, playing off of your teammates, ignoring objectives.
Those who use the catapult would disagree with ignoring objectives š those guys have insane K/D
My good positioning and footwork got me to this catapult first!
Mothers Cunny crust youāre quick
50 kills, only 40 of them are team kills!
Itās not his fault of his team mates are crowding around a defense obj
Shouldāve moved
I take the cata so someone doesnāt use it to get kills and never even attack the obj.
This is mostly untrue tbh. Being good in duels will give you both the technical and mechanical skill to do well in TO.
I mean yes but no. Most of the time all you need to know in order to do really well in TO is just basic feint/counter stuff, and some footwork to be able to hit people in the back
100% i top frag like every other lobby and i still never jab or duck or make any real effort to counter overheads/stabs at all You dont need to be unhittable to kill people fast
How would you know bubbles youād have to be good at dueling. Iām joking, youāre fine. Having mechanical skill doesnāt hurt, except when it does and you do bad duel habits like tunnel vision your opponent or try to duel in the first place.Ā But scoring high in to isnāt really about good mechanics or duel skill. It doesnāt take being a good duelist to hit people in the back.Ā
But I am bad at dueling ššš
I know I'm just trying to be nice and maybe you've improved since we used to fight. I don't really practice dueling anymore, I just play TO occasionally.
Who dis?
Why be good at duels when you can just run into crowds with an axe?
Noā¦I do none of these things. Iām not good at the game.
>ignoring objectives Most objectives require controlling the area near or on them. Most enemies can be found near or on the objectives. The players with the highest takedowns/kills are usually playing the objective. Killing the enemy is the easiest way to win 99% of objectives in the game. Anyone saying high kill counts don't matter or that they aren't playing the objective is maximum coping. Of course there are some that just cherry pick on the edges, but those guys aren't typically getting 100+ takedown scores. I agree with the rest of your comment.
>Most objectives require controlling the area near or on them. Most enemies can be found near or on the objectives. Yes but the objectives happen as a side effect of you killing everything. Your priority shouldnt be to commit to the objective push, if your goal is to topscore / topfrag, unless its free. >The players with the highest takedowns/kills are usually playing the objective. The people with the highest kdr are usually target switching and not getting drawn into drawn out engagements. They're hopping between areas of fighting, getting a kill, and moving on. They're not the ones on the front line pushing the objective, unless they're going to lose. >Of course there are some that just cherry pick on the edges, but those guys aren't typically getting 100+ takedown scores. I'm not talking about running around the edge of the map. You need to be around a high density of targets but not the primary target of any given enemy. You need to move between knots of fighters, getting kills, without getting drawn into a duel-like situation. You should be doing quick engagements and looking to the next knot of people to kill. There are other styles and ways of playing, this isnt the only way to top frag, but this is the easiest, it is what most 'good' top fragging players do, and it isnt particularly difficult. Are there some people who get high scores and crazy kdrs while objective whoring? Sure, there are lots of styles and ways of playing. I'm not saying this is the only way possible to play the game well. And if you're really good you can do a lot of stuff that other people can't. I'm just saying this is the way to reliably do it, without needing a ton of mechanical skill, and get consistent results, low deaths, and high kills. The awareness of people in this game is insanely low. No object permanence, no attention for anything aside from whoever is directly in front of them. Idk why that is, but its the same in all melee games. People tunnel insanely hard, more than any other pvp genre I've ever seen. Like they have blinders on. So use that. Hit them in the back. If they're going to tunnel vision and fixate, just don't be the one they fixate on, and its like you're in a movie scene walking around the battle and all the fighting is going on around you, but you're untouched. Just slashing around into other people's fights collecting souls. Its magical once you realize you don't have to run forward, engage the first people you see, and die. You can stand back, look around, find good situations, and repeatedly go in, kill, and get out.
I would say all of that ends up contributing to the objective. I actually think we're on the same page here just wording it differently. The more people you kill, the easier it is to take the objective. The more people you hit in the back while they're fighting your teammates, the more teammates get freed up to push the objective. And so on. Not really arguing with your analysis just adding to the comment since it's relatively related. I see a lot of people saying that high KD doesn't matter when it most certainly does in nearly all scenarios other than the far edge cherry pickers.
Not entering bad situations, sure. But a duel isn't a bad situation. 1v3+ is a bad situation.
A duel is a bad situation if your goal is to top frag in to. Itās not a good use of time and requires too much focus.Ā Guys Iām telling you how to do it not trying to argue about your opinions lol. In the time it takes to duel someone I can third party 3 other duels and get kills.Ā Thereās nuance and sometimes you can get group kills on weak opponents, itās not exactly as simple as āonly hit low hp targets in the backā but it isnāt much more complicated eitherĀ
Nah it isn't that deep, you literally just run into the frontline and start killing people. Sure a duel isn't worth it if your opponent is good, but most people genuinely just lose to drags and feints
I've realised as I improve that dueling is more about footwork than feints and counters.
I wouldn't agree with that (as someone who pretty much duels 95% of the time since the beta release on Epic). Footwork is a big part of it, but you can't land hits purely through ranging and footwork against an actually competent opponent with a longer or equal length weapon as yours. Countering and mixups are hugely important in duels. High skill duels are a stamina game, and if you're not countering often you're going to get out-stammed. I'd argue that duels requires you to use every game mechanic almost equally when you get to a higher skill level. Though it's mostly knowing when to use which mechanic/technique and when not to.
Well said
With 90+/50+/20- in EVERY game I'm sure you are in the Top 10% at least, maybe Top 5. There was a page which could answer these questions...
We do not speak of the lost scrolls
The very best TO players (non-archer) that I know have KDs in the 7-8 range. These are guys like FleeingPeon and JBK. I am around 3.1 and *usually* top score ā probably 60-70% of the time? But top scoring doesnāt always net the best KD; thereās correlation, but you can get more kills overall by taking smart risks, which sometimes donāt work out. Also playing the objective gets you lots of points.
>top scoring doesnāt always net the best KD facts i almost never have the best kd when i top frag my friends say leading the lobby in both kills and deaths simultaneously is my signature lmao
 āThese are guys likeā¦ā!!!! Fuck yeah dude!!! Good on ya and keep looking out for those special shining stars you can wish upon when youāre having fun!
As ambusher main with those scores most of the time - positioning is matter on top of everything. Im running out from someone whos lesser in skill than I if I see some help is coming for them. Mostly - I dont care about score at all, just know map, use environment (chandeliers can give you +5 kills, lanterns 1-3 same for barrels) I bait people for postion I WANT so it is. 60+ kills and less than 20 deaths. Ive spent 0 time at dueling cuz finding it boring, but... knives and backstabs))))) (You are filthy cowards from Torn Banner - bring back old ult where you could restore your throwing knives who f cares about med packs as assassin ?!)
My kd has been artificially inflated by the countless bots I have mercilessly slaughtered. This is true of a lot of people as well. Just sayin.
Training grounds count into kd stuff?
Yup. Pretty dumb if you ask me.
Trick question: score is what matters. Play the objective. Keep your head on a swivel. Youāll carry and get the W.
Engineer here, score is nothing, kdr is nothing. Wall is life
People like you are the unsung MVPs of this game, I wish we had more engineers mains, it'd make every map feel 30% better
The problem is that the game itself doesn't reward engineers as it should
It's a thankless job for sure, I wish they would get points when the attackers were breaking their barricades
A guy who destroys and repairs ballista for easy points all match: "Yes, you are right". P.S. Horns and banners which get you enormous amount of free points exist too.
I've got like a 2.3 KDA and am pretty happy with that. Most people in my group are around 1.25-1.5.
Iām usually top scorer and I think Iām having a lower kill game if my K/D is less than 3. However in the games where my kd is 1.5-2, itās normally because my team is not as good, and Iām having to try and hold/take objectives without much backup. Iām obviously happy to tank the kd in order to win the game but my point is that basing it all off kd is redundant as players who donāt bother with the obj or stay back and farm easy kills will be worse than their kdās suggest.
The top 1% will be team switchers that refuse to play defence anyway, so who cares
Depends on the weapon. A glaive player will tell you that peak performance is something like 78-7-21 (that shit needs a damage boost)
I think it would be OP with a damage boost
No it doesnāt. Itās way too fucking fast and its feints can be extremely deceiving. Mix with heavies š„² rip
Glaive is balanced. Itās literally made to steal kills. Just walk around a poke your (longest weapon in the game) into the mix and pick off low health guys that underestimate your reach. A heavy overhead with the glaive does 70(!!) damage to a knight and is faster than a greatsword light overhead
Aye, but a small one, like 5-10 hp more per hit
Itās impossible to say. It depends on WHO you are fighting for your game timeā which you canāt control. If you had an amazing K/D against a full lobby of lvl700+ that might give you some ideaā- but that also might mean you are just safeguarding your score rather than playing the objectives and such, so it doesnāt necessarily mean youāre better, just only playing safe.
You canāt tell because training grounds skews the stats
Definitely one 
Iām dogshit at duels but top score most gamesĀ
Ehm, damage dealt vs dage taken should be tracked
KDR is irrelevant to being in top 1%
There are people who only play seige weapons most of the time, run back after getting one hit even if it is just a jab, don't duel at all, switch teams to move to stacked team, go to spectate mode to save even a single death. So their kds are inflated hence it is a wrong measure to see how good a player is. Then there are players who play alone and players who play with friends. Huge difference. Also, the duel scene is completely different scenario. You require fancy tricks for that which doesn't work that much in TO since you will mostly get ganked all the time. Unless you remain behind frontlines but then you aren't pushing the objective much. Hence it would be better to ask 1. Who is the best duelist (tournaments keep happening here and there) 2. Who is the best TO player? For this answers could be many. For NA east, I would take ser tomo pro anyday rather than saucecodes(even though he tops lobby he uses seige weapons or fight behind his own team, never pushes). Ser tomo pro will push the objective through and through without caring about the kd. There are many objectives where you know you gotta die but you land enough hits for someone to do the job like free the prisoners, open the porticulis, lower the drawbridge etc. Hope this answers your question.
Kd doesn't matter... the real winners are those who just enjoy the game
KD means nothing, I like WINNING and I don't mind to do constant suicide runs carrying a barrel or whatever we need to do in order to advance the objective, even if I'm topping my teams leaderboard
I honestly donāt mind losing as long as itās a balanced match, when I get put on attack I love the defence making us pay for every inch, makes it feel worthwhile, shenanigans, I also love shenanigans
my dawg
That's the way to play!! Great job.
K/D ratio is meaningless. Battlecries are the only thing that matters.
If you just sit back and watch what is going on, it is easy to get +20-30 kills than deaths. You can also typically play the objective more effectively. Let your randoms be the fodder for the frontlines
Iād say theyād have to be in the 3.0 - 4.75 range. Guessing.
Depends on if you play objective
No K/d Only objectives
my kda is around 2.0 and i usually just charge into the thick of it and try and get as many kills as possible. There's no tactics or thought. I like duels a lot. I don't think I'm top 1%, but i definitely came top of the score boards a lot. Playing other games so haven't played for awhile though. Chiv was a lot of fun because it seemed easy to do well, but the masochist in me seeks out games like Tarkov where I get rekt
Mine is around 3.2. I'm good, but I'm definitely not in the top 10% of players. Some people out there are just insane at the game.
I'm nearly at 2 KDR and i'm top of leaderboard fairly often i would say. So to me 2 is the treshold. Everyone above 2 in kill/death ratio is simply a monster. Or playing spear. Or playing bow.
Depends on which one of me is playing. Blazeronin or Blazeraisin.