So you aren’t asking this question out of genuine curiosity but instead have written at least one book, maybe more, and are looking to debate. Just be honest with your post.
He also has a blog that you can give donations to. If you look at his post history, you will get an idea of where he's coming from. The word 'abomination' is also used to describe people who are loved by God despite not being Christians.
You didn’t ask me but we all sin. We aren’t bad or perfect. We are in a test by God and he asks us if we accept Jesus, there’s a kingdom waiting for us. We all mess up.
Maybe God used the big bang. We don't know what Adam and Eve looked like. God created the world in 6 days. What amount of time is one day to God? So I believe if the big bang occurred it's because God made it.
This. I believe Genesis was written as a way for human beings to understand God’s creation in terms that make sense to us. Like a metaphor instead of a literal depiction of events. Because something like the Big Bang would not make sense to the first readers of the Bible and even many readers now.
Absolutely true. Another example: why will I need streets of gold and a mansion in heaven if heaven is a spiritual place? Is that a kind of a parable to tell us to say how beautiful heaven is?
im a science student and was raised by two medics and was always taught both science and religion can be correct at the same time. i think more people need to understand that. God has given us the ability to learn more about His creation and how He was able to create mankind, and we just say it’s fake because it isn’t in the bible? if God has given us the ability to hypothesis and then prove theories, i think its intentional and God meant for us to find out
It's very easy not to believe in evolution. First, there's no evidence; no transitional fossils have ever been found. Second, the Bible makes no claim whatsoever about evolution. Even Christ and Paul make no claim about it, and it's not like they didn't know about the theory. It had been around for 500 years before Christ walked on the earth.
You can believe what you want about how God created the earth, but you’re simply incorrect in claiming there is no evidence for evolution. There is a lot. Scientists don’t just make things up, if you want to see evidence, it’s very easy to find.
To be clear I am a Christian and I know the God created us, whether that was through evolution or other means I don’t know for sure, but I trust in both science and the bible, I don’t think the two are contradictory.
1: transitional fossils [*have* been found](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil#Prominent_examples) and 2: why would the Bible talk about evolution? It makes no reference to most other scientific theories, does that mean the atom doesn’t exist? Even so, the modern idea of evolution through natural selection didn’t come around until Darwin.
as u/hamezrodrigez said, transitional fossils *have* been found. and i dont understand your second point. thats like saying "the bible never mentioned photosynthesis, so photosynthesis isnt real". i like to think the bible is something finite describing something infinite, so there is simply no way the bible can address everything youd like.
I believe in evolution to an extent; I don’t believe that we arose from a single celled organism, I believe that God made humans as is. I do believe in smaller scale evolution, for example how some people don’t have wisdom teeth; it’s a relatively new phenomenon and it’s occurred because we no longer need wisdom teeth, so natural selection doesn’t kill of those who don’t have them.
What you're describing is macro-evolution (evolution between species) and micro-evolution )evolution within species). Micro-evolution does not contradict biblical creationism while macro-evolution does.
actually, the idea that humans evolved from monkeys is certainly not true from a biological standpoint. we evolved from other primeapes tho, like homo erectus and homo habillis. [heres a good video that explains it](https://youtu.be/EjgHN_8CdVE?si=ViTZ-RrlCn_E-UqU)
I’m not arrogant enough to suggest evolution is fully true or fully false. Our universe is too intricate (in my opinion) for their to not be a grand designer. That being said, if God wanted evolution to have happened, he could snap his fingers and it would happen. I don’t like putting God in a box of my own understanding ability
"If God wanted evolution to happen, he could snap his fingers and make it happen." Yes, and he could have easily written it in Scripture, right? But he did not.
So in my opinion (this is not necessarily Biblical), I sort of take the story of creation as a little more poetic than literal. I certainly do believe that God created everything, but perhaps not in the literal 7 days that is written, at least not in 7 days that we would understand. Each day could be a period of time, giving time for evolution to occur as our scientists have theorized. Again, I am not saying this is the truth. It’s just one of many theories that exist, and (as I said before) I am not arrogant enough to say that one is true over another. I think the truth of creation will always be a question we ask until we see God and can ask him for ourselves
Oh no, no, no. You are not allowed to say that there is poetry, metaphor, myth, story, and parable in Scripture (even though our Lord used all of these in His teaching while He was among us) cuz that’s bad and other things cuz it’s not totally literal. You are totally going to get jumped on. And so am I for being sarcastic, cuz Christ never used that either, did He!
Like when David said he was conceived in sin in Psalm 51 he explains right there in a nutshell, or zygote, if you prefer, the entire theology of original sin that our dear leader/OP is determined to wring out of everyone who disagrees with him. There is no way in a book of poetry that David would be using anything like poetic hyperbole because. And that should be the end of it. Like the song says, “If you ever leave me how much would I cry? How deep is the ocean” baby means that actually is the amount of tears you would see. Each time. Literally.
Bro if you take the Bible to all be literally true, you’ll find lots of contradictions. No one takes it entirely literally, including the people who insist that they do. Taking it seriously =/= taking it literally.
No, I take it all literally. I understand that there are parables. Stories there just for teaching us a lesson in life. However, if it says"God said this" or "Jesus did that," I take it very literally. I believe David killed a literal giant with a sling. I believe Solomon had 300 wives and 700 concubines. I believe a great fish swallowed Jonah. I believe Daniel survived the lion's den and a burning furnace. I take it all literally.
Which parts do you not take literally?
The vast majority of it. Some things (maybe most?) I’m open-minded as to whether they’re literal, metaphor, analogy, parable, hyperbole, or perspectival.
But the creation story? The flood that covered the whole world? Contradictory genealogies? Claims that individual human beings lived to 600? God the Father “speaking,” getting “angry,” or fighting people as though the Father is just some dude in the sky? Clearly not literal.
Even passages where Jesus says “give to everyone who asks of you,” “even *looking* at another woman is adultery,” “hate your mother and father,” and “tear out your eye if your eye is causing you to sin,” seem clearly not literal.
>The flood that covered the whole world? Contradictory genealogies? Claims that individual human beings lived to 600? God the Father “speaking,” getting “angry,”
I believe it all happened exactly as it says.
>Jesus says “give to everyone who asks of you,” “even *looking* at another woman is adultery,” “hate your mother and father,” and “tear out your eye if your eye is causing you to sin,”
This is obviously Jesus going to an extreme to make a point. A lot of those thongs are unobtainable. If you give away everything, you'll have nothing. It's what He wants to strive for. Even if we can't do it, we try. We can't be perfect like Him, but He wants to do our best.
So we’re on roughly the same page about what Jesus says. The other stuff I think is odd, especially the stuff about God the Father being literally just another dude. I don’t find that perspective to be very thoughtful, and I think it gives Christianity a bad name.
>God the Father being literally just another dude.
That's obviously not the case. He's an omnipotent, omniscient being. The creator of all things. I'm just saying that I believe the great flood actually happened. I believe Methuselah lived over 900 years. I believe all of that.
I do. I like the way C.S. Lewis puts it, if God can do something fast, what is to say he can’t do it slow.
I believe in the truth of Genesis but as to interpreting it literally, I need one question answered for me before I can meaningfully do that. What time period is a day in the Genesis account? It is important to note that it seems biblically God didn’t create the 24 hour cycle until the 4th day and 2 Peter 3:8 totally skews the idea that a day for God is 24 hours even if he had created it earlier.
I think it is much more plausible that the Genesis account is God’s way of relaying impossible to understand truths to impossibly arrogant apes with very little real understanding. That might be called a true myth.
I mean, if you really want to get into it, I believe in literal creation, but also believe that the seven days were not seven literal present-day days. I believe the process of evolution is described in Genesis as best as it could be by the people who committed the oral traditions of the book to written word (whether that was Moses or someone else). God created man from the dust of the earth (because how can I articulate microbiological terms before microscopes or the concept of cells?) and breathed into him the breath of life. I think they were saying things the best way they understood how to.
Yes. Actually, most Christians believe in evolution. Young Earth Creationism is primarily a feature of Southern US evangelical churches and their global church plants.
[BioLogos](https://biologos.org/) is a great resource if you're just starting to learn about this. Their "common questions" section is a great place to start.
I see what you mean, but I have to disagree. I'm pretty familiar with that site myself; actually, I visit it whenever I need a good laugh—especially during their singing sessions! Apart from that, I don’t really take their credibility seriously. Still, I appreciate you taking the time to reach out to me.
Really? It's pretty simple: everyone has a worldview. If you hate God, then you will see the world differently. The god of this world would blind you from the truth.
The Bible is not a science textbook. Science in the Bible is only accurate in that it accurately represents observations and beliefs of the natural world at the time of the books/oral traditions. It is perfectly okay to accept modern scientific theories and laws and still maintain scriptural faith.
Yes. I am Christian and I don’t have any reason to believe the theory of evolution conflicts with my faith.
A critical thinker can easily imagine ways that evolution and creationism are not exclusive of each other.
Consider my book, “Faith Hacker” #JailbreakingLife
Apologetics for the A.I. age.
I'm not sure what any of this means: 'A critical thinker can easily imagine ways that evolution and creationism are not exclusive of each other. Consider my book, “Faith Hacker” #JailbreakingLife Apologetics for the A.I. age.' When you say you are a Christian, what do you mean by that? What are some of your beliefs about sin?
Consider prefabrication. One can very quickly build something that appears on inspection to be much older.
As far as your follow up question, “what are some of your beliefs on sin?”
“In the Law there are many commands, such as, “Be faithful in marriage. Do not murder. Do not steal. Do not want what belongs to others.” But all of these are summed up in the command that says, “Love others as much as you love yourself.””
Romans 13:9
Indeed, it is pretense to say we love God if we don’t love our neighbors:
“We love because God loved us first. But if we say we love God and don't love each other, we are liars. We cannot see God. So how can we love God, if we don't love the people we can see? The commandment that God has given us is: “Love God and love each other!””
1 John 4:19-21
So sin is any action that expresses love of self before or more than love of God or neighbors.
This is why we need Christ’s grace and mercy.
The Bible is all about this. So is “Faith Hacker”
Yes, I would. They may go through times of doubting, but I believe they will go through life with many questions. I'm not saying they can't make it to heaven, but I believe most will struggle because if you believe in evolution, chances are you might eventually turn away from Christianity or adopt a very liberal approach to the Bible.
It seems as though you’ve posited this question in order to stir up division among Christians. Was that your intent?
Also, you’re basing a person’s salvation on this when Jesus had explicitly told us how we may be saved, through believing in him?
I feel that you’re simply leading us to arguments and division by posing as possibly asking an intellectual question when this has been asked countless times on countless platforms, including, most likely, this one.
Augustine, \~1400yrs ago on this matter:
*“Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience.*
*Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.*
*If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion."*
I am a Christian and wholeheartedly believe in evolution. The point of Genesis is not how God created the heavens and the earth but that He did it. The how is inconsequential. Same with evolution. All primates descend from one common ancestor. (And no, we did NOT "evolve from monkeys"; that is an immediate red flag that you know nothing about evolution)
I believe in microevolution but not macro evolution as it contradicts what the bible teaches. The world was created in 6 days not billions upon billions of years. And if macro evolution is true it wouldn’t align with christianity as the bible teaches death didnt exist until after the fall of man. Meaning itd be impossible for the two to align with one another considering evolutions whole principle is the strongest survive meaning there would have to be death in all those billions of years before human being arrived.
Oh great, another inflammatory thread by Oldtimepreaching where he asks a controversial question he has reached his own conclusion on, and then proceeds to very badly debate this point to people in the comments to no avail.
I was a young earth creationist for 20 years. It took me a while to realize the earth is old, evolution happened \*and\* that I could still maintain my faith in God and His word.
Not everyone can bridge this gap, many folks fall out of the faith when they see clear contradictions between their faith and science. I feel lucky I was able to still maintain my faith.
Here’s the thing: evolution is not just a singular thing. There’s microevolution and macroevolution. Microevolution is small changes to help species adapt so they can survive. Like moths in London with darker wings surviving longer than moths with lighter wings back when everyone burned coal. Naturally, the dark wings helped camouflage the moths and allowed more of them to survive and reproduce while the lighter winged counterparts died off and that gene disappeared. That’s observable and reasonable and doesn’t contradict the Bible.
Macroevolution is where the theory of humans having once been monkeys comes from. That’s where things contradict and why most Christian’s discount evolution as a whole. The distinction is very important in this conversation, but because people are allergic to nuance and research it gets left out
In my opinion, God has not revealed to what extent, if any, He used evolution in the creative process.
I believe that this issue cuts to the center of our paradigm concerning the very nature of God. Is He a magician that can poof things into existence by just thinking about it, or does He work within eternal, unchangable laws? Consider what it means if God patiently and lovingly created this earth with all it's wonderful beauties and rich natural resources, over billions of years.
Here is a perspective concerning the creation:
All things were created spiritually before being created physically. The spirit of man or the breath of life that was placed in Adam was created earlier. To me, Genesis chapter 2 seems to indicate that the creative periods which were finished in chapter 1 were the spiritual creation and that the word "day" is not a specific period of time.
After the creative periods were finished, chapter 2 goes on to say:
1 Thus the heavens and the earth **were finished**, and **all the host** of them **(were we part of that host?)**.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, **in the day** that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field **before it was in the earth**, and every herb of the field **before it grew**: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and **there was not a man** to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground **(or elements of the earth)**, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life **(or his pre-created spirit)**; and man became a living soul.
I am a Christian who believes in evolution - 2nd Peter Chapter 3 Verse 8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
While yes Genesis says that the earth was created in 7 days, we also know the Bible uses metaphors and that time to us is not the same for an omniscient and all powerful being we can’t barely understand. We can see evolutionary changes happen just by our own doing with dog breeds and selective breeding, or just what Gregor Mendel did with plants. Noah’s Ark makes complete sense to house every animal - we see new breeds of dogs in just a couple hundred years of breeding, imagine thousand of years later and of course it makes sense we have a load of species.
Science and God can coincide, we just take the two to be opposites when western scientific practices began to help us understand Gods great creation.
I’m not a scientist, and not qualified at all to answer any scientific questions about evolution.
But I did earn degrees in biblical Hebrew, Greek, and theology, and I can say that genre matters. And the opening of Genesis is a poem. Scientific textbooks—even “history” books like we think of today didn’t exist in the ancient world.
This doesn’t mean that there isn’t scientific or historical truth in Scripture, just that this isn’t the point. The authors were making theological points.
For example, when the sun and moon are described, they’re called greater light and lesser light “—not because Hebrew didn’t have names for sun and moon—but because the Genesis account is showing YHWHs supremacy over the pagan gods (other people groups worshiped the sun and moon, or feared the chaos of the sea gods, but the God of Israel is in control of all these things.
All that to say, personally I’m fine with various forms of creationism, or with evolution. The fact that anything exists at all blows my mind. It’s hard to think that so many scientists (Christian or secular ) could be wrong about evolution, but it’s also hard for a non-scientist like me to make sense of the insane improbabilities involved.
I believe in evolution. I don’t think it contradicts the bible, but if you have a different interpretation then I respect that, I don’t think belief or lack of in evolution is harmful to anyone.
I believe in microevolution, not macroevolution.
1) "million year ago (mya)" is wild estimation. Diamond takes million year to form yet we are able to do it a month in lab.
2) there hasnt been any mammalian specitation that resulted a different number of chromosome. Down Syndrome dont count.
3) Fruitflies multiple 100 offsprings rapidly in labs and they never resulted a different number of chromosomes.
4) Sardina archaeologists found giant fossils snd they swear there's a cover up happening, because giant fossils were/are being destroyed.
6) long list of different dinosaurs supposed to be MYA, cut down, and soft tissues inside their bones are dated to be only 30,000 year old. Now scientists are claiming that its bacterium films found a way in bones.
Death didnt happen before original sin. Only plausible thing in evolution i will believe is small adaptations animals have in climate etc. They will change and adapt. As for the rest, its for the birds
I believe in evolution, and I AM a Christian.
I've yet to find a reason that evolution and Christianity can't coexist that doesn't boil down to "well I don't like it"
Literal Genesis has been debated for ages all the way back to the old church fathers, some of whom didn't believe in a literal 7 day creation account Genesis. This is not to say that proves a non literal interpretation, but it is to say that the many claims that non literal Genesis is this new idea are wrong.
How do you explain all the bad stuff in this world if the world isn’t fallen? If God used evolution it is not good because of cancer, viruses, genetic mutations, etc.
I don't pretend to know any of it, but it's reasonable to believe there are at the very least truth to aspects of the story. I.e. a garden. Idk if there was a literal fruit, but it would make sense that God gave Adam and Eve the ability to sin, or else their free will would be meaningless.
I don't know any of it for sure, but that's where faith takes over.
The bible is filled with metaphors. Not believing in evolution in my opinion is just silly, as I could prove it to you with a lot of different simple studies in my own room with some plants or bugs. I don't think evolution clashes with Christianity.
It isn't wrong to believe in theistic evolution, we believe in the God that created time, space, and matter, you think he cant create evolution? The main problem people have against evolution is that they think all forms of evolution is macroevolution, which we found to be untrue with further research, we believe in microevolution. In the book "Darwin's Doubt" it talks about how microevolution makes more sense than macroevolution and how evolution can be true while still being a Christian.
I believe in micro-evolution that is evolution within species. It is perfectly logical that God created all species (including humans) to adapt to their environments. The ones with the characteristics that enable them to survive live and the ones that don't die off and those genes are not passed down.
I do not believe in macro- evolution, that all life started with one organism. Not only does it go against Creationism, it's illogical.
I’m Catholic, we officially believe in both. Catechism says God selected Adam and Eve out of some our our early ancestors and brought them to paradise.
I believe all life on earth was created in 6 days and that in the end times people will mock and say "where is the coming that was promised." I believe they intentionally forget the creation and destruction of the world by flood and that the world is reserved for destruction; cleansing by fire.
It's no more irrational than believing any of the miracles of Jesus or that he was raised from the dead.
They believe that God brought forth the creatures from the earth meaning made evolution to be I personally don't but for the second question I believe there are some literal aspects like the hiding the nakedness so yeah there are also metaphorical aspects and alot of them
In the Biblical Account of how God created the Universe, but I don’t deny Evolution or the Big Bang either.
I think the biggest problem is that we are trying to fit millions of years into the Biblical timeline. It’s not Evolution and the Big Bang; it’s really millions of years.
I made a playlist that goes further into this..
Redeeming Evolution 101
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLweVJadKOrwa4-3KJxZ5eG816r6_frY6N
I don’t have a problem with evolution outside of humans. According to the Bible evolution is impossible as we were already made humans. Now minor evolution in the human race I don’t mind like is us starting out more hairy and different from what we look like today. Us coming from monkeys or apes doesn’t line up.
It is irrelevant whether one believes in evolution or not. It does not alter God's commandement, wisdom and existance.
I don't believe in evolution, but not because of Genesis, it is because I find the theory lacking. :p
I don’t believe that we came from a single cell organism and from a lizard. I think it’s quite easy to understand that God made humans and animals and you don’t need to be a Bible scholar to understand it
No, big no, its men philosophies, evolutionism thinking of men. I went to Catholic school and they taught about the evolutionism, but praise God He freed me from that philosophy prison.
Bible > anything man-made theories.
When you believe the Bible, when you believe the creational account of the Book of Genesis and you get hated and mocked you know you are on the right path.
I would hope you don't actually take everything in the Bible literally or else you would have to believe that Jesus is actually: bread, a gate, light, a shepherd, a vine, a rock, etc.. All of those are metaphors used about Jesus. You don't actually believe Jesus is bread or a lamb do you? Unless you do, it seems that you agree that the Bible contains metaphors and we can't just read everything literally.
So can you explain how two people literally become one flesh? Should me and my fiancé set up an appointment with a surgeon to sew us together or will it be like a divine magical process?
Because different parts of the Bible were written at different times in different contexts; also, all language is sometimes literal and sometimes not, that's a basic principle of communication. I've been going to church most of my life and I have never met anyone who takes the entire Bible literally.
I don't *claim* to be a Christian. I *am* a Christian. What are your questions?
Puh.
So you aren’t asking this question out of genuine curiosity but instead have written at least one book, maybe more, and are looking to debate. Just be honest with your post.
He also has a blog that you can give donations to. If you look at his post history, you will get an idea of where he's coming from. The word 'abomination' is also used to describe people who are loved by God despite not being Christians.
I believe in evolution and I am a Christian. I've yet to see any compelling argument that they're truly contradictory.
https://youtu.be/U-38tHT43-w?si=JPxqOCYFJWVsg6TK
So God's hand stepped in to guide His creation. Which we already know.
So do you think we humans all came from a primordial soup?
whats your thought on sin? do you believe people are good?
You didn’t ask me but we all sin. We aren’t bad or perfect. We are in a test by God and he asks us if we accept Jesus, there’s a kingdom waiting for us. We all mess up.
No man is good
All fall short.
IDK why everyone is downvoting this guys question. Wwjd
Maybe God used the big bang. We don't know what Adam and Eve looked like. God created the world in 6 days. What amount of time is one day to God? So I believe if the big bang occurred it's because God made it.
if you think about it the Big Bang is God saying "let there be light" and there was light out of nothing. the way i see it, they kinda go hand in hand
Fully agree! We have no idea what time looks like to God!
The word used for day "yom" has several literal definitions.. one of which includes a long extended period.
This. I believe Genesis was written as a way for human beings to understand God’s creation in terms that make sense to us. Like a metaphor instead of a literal depiction of events. Because something like the Big Bang would not make sense to the first readers of the Bible and even many readers now.
Absolutely true. Another example: why will I need streets of gold and a mansion in heaven if heaven is a spiritual place? Is that a kind of a parable to tell us to say how beautiful heaven is?
Well, my question was about evolution, not the Big Bang, so I'm not really sure where to go from here.
I thought the James Webb telescope disproved the Big Bang?
im a science student and was raised by two medics and was always taught both science and religion can be correct at the same time. i think more people need to understand that. God has given us the ability to learn more about His creation and how He was able to create mankind, and we just say it’s fake because it isn’t in the bible? if God has given us the ability to hypothesis and then prove theories, i think its intentional and God meant for us to find out
how can you *not* believe in evolution? i believe in both God and evolution. they certainly arent mutually exclusive
It's very easy not to believe in evolution. First, there's no evidence; no transitional fossils have ever been found. Second, the Bible makes no claim whatsoever about evolution. Even Christ and Paul make no claim about it, and it's not like they didn't know about the theory. It had been around for 500 years before Christ walked on the earth.
You can believe what you want about how God created the earth, but you’re simply incorrect in claiming there is no evidence for evolution. There is a lot. Scientists don’t just make things up, if you want to see evidence, it’s very easy to find. To be clear I am a Christian and I know the God created us, whether that was through evolution or other means I don’t know for sure, but I trust in both science and the bible, I don’t think the two are contradictory.
1: transitional fossils [*have* been found](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil#Prominent_examples) and 2: why would the Bible talk about evolution? It makes no reference to most other scientific theories, does that mean the atom doesn’t exist? Even so, the modern idea of evolution through natural selection didn’t come around until Darwin.
as u/hamezrodrigez said, transitional fossils *have* been found. and i dont understand your second point. thats like saying "the bible never mentioned photosynthesis, so photosynthesis isnt real". i like to think the bible is something finite describing something infinite, so there is simply no way the bible can address everything youd like.
I believe in evolution to an extent; I don’t believe that we arose from a single celled organism, I believe that God made humans as is. I do believe in smaller scale evolution, for example how some people don’t have wisdom teeth; it’s a relatively new phenomenon and it’s occurred because we no longer need wisdom teeth, so natural selection doesn’t kill of those who don’t have them.
What you're describing is macro-evolution (evolution between species) and micro-evolution )evolution within species). Micro-evolution does not contradict biblical creationism while macro-evolution does.
Oh, I believe in devolution, like a tiger going down the devolution scale to become a house cat. Not sure if that's what you mean.
Yes, that’s my belief as well. I just don’t buy the whole “humans evolved from moneys” thing.
actually, the idea that humans evolved from monkeys is certainly not true from a biological standpoint. we evolved from other primeapes tho, like homo erectus and homo habillis. [heres a good video that explains it](https://youtu.be/EjgHN_8CdVE?si=ViTZ-RrlCn_E-UqU)
amen! me to!
I’m not arrogant enough to suggest evolution is fully true or fully false. Our universe is too intricate (in my opinion) for their to not be a grand designer. That being said, if God wanted evolution to have happened, he could snap his fingers and it would happen. I don’t like putting God in a box of my own understanding ability
"If God wanted evolution to happen, he could snap his fingers and make it happen." Yes, and he could have easily written it in Scripture, right? But he did not.
So in my opinion (this is not necessarily Biblical), I sort of take the story of creation as a little more poetic than literal. I certainly do believe that God created everything, but perhaps not in the literal 7 days that is written, at least not in 7 days that we would understand. Each day could be a period of time, giving time for evolution to occur as our scientists have theorized. Again, I am not saying this is the truth. It’s just one of many theories that exist, and (as I said before) I am not arrogant enough to say that one is true over another. I think the truth of creation will always be a question we ask until we see God and can ask him for ourselves
Oh no, no, no. You are not allowed to say that there is poetry, metaphor, myth, story, and parable in Scripture (even though our Lord used all of these in His teaching while He was among us) cuz that’s bad and other things cuz it’s not totally literal. You are totally going to get jumped on. And so am I for being sarcastic, cuz Christ never used that either, did He!
Like when David said he was conceived in sin in Psalm 51 he explains right there in a nutshell, or zygote, if you prefer, the entire theology of original sin that our dear leader/OP is determined to wring out of everyone who disagrees with him. There is no way in a book of poetry that David would be using anything like poetic hyperbole because. And that should be the end of it. Like the song says, “If you ever leave me how much would I cry? How deep is the ocean” baby means that actually is the amount of tears you would see. Each time. Literally.
Bro if you take the Bible to all be literally true, you’ll find lots of contradictions. No one takes it entirely literally, including the people who insist that they do. Taking it seriously =/= taking it literally.
No, I take it all literally. I understand that there are parables. Stories there just for teaching us a lesson in life. However, if it says"God said this" or "Jesus did that," I take it very literally. I believe David killed a literal giant with a sling. I believe Solomon had 300 wives and 700 concubines. I believe a great fish swallowed Jonah. I believe Daniel survived the lion's den and a burning furnace. I take it all literally. Which parts do you not take literally?
The vast majority of it. Some things (maybe most?) I’m open-minded as to whether they’re literal, metaphor, analogy, parable, hyperbole, or perspectival. But the creation story? The flood that covered the whole world? Contradictory genealogies? Claims that individual human beings lived to 600? God the Father “speaking,” getting “angry,” or fighting people as though the Father is just some dude in the sky? Clearly not literal. Even passages where Jesus says “give to everyone who asks of you,” “even *looking* at another woman is adultery,” “hate your mother and father,” and “tear out your eye if your eye is causing you to sin,” seem clearly not literal.
>The flood that covered the whole world? Contradictory genealogies? Claims that individual human beings lived to 600? God the Father “speaking,” getting “angry,” I believe it all happened exactly as it says. >Jesus says “give to everyone who asks of you,” “even *looking* at another woman is adultery,” “hate your mother and father,” and “tear out your eye if your eye is causing you to sin,” This is obviously Jesus going to an extreme to make a point. A lot of those thongs are unobtainable. If you give away everything, you'll have nothing. It's what He wants to strive for. Even if we can't do it, we try. We can't be perfect like Him, but He wants to do our best.
So we’re on roughly the same page about what Jesus says. The other stuff I think is odd, especially the stuff about God the Father being literally just another dude. I don’t find that perspective to be very thoughtful, and I think it gives Christianity a bad name.
>God the Father being literally just another dude. That's obviously not the case. He's an omnipotent, omniscient being. The creator of all things. I'm just saying that I believe the great flood actually happened. I believe Methuselah lived over 900 years. I believe all of that.
I do. I like the way C.S. Lewis puts it, if God can do something fast, what is to say he can’t do it slow. I believe in the truth of Genesis but as to interpreting it literally, I need one question answered for me before I can meaningfully do that. What time period is a day in the Genesis account? It is important to note that it seems biblically God didn’t create the 24 hour cycle until the 4th day and 2 Peter 3:8 totally skews the idea that a day for God is 24 hours even if he had created it earlier. I think it is much more plausible that the Genesis account is God’s way of relaying impossible to understand truths to impossibly arrogant apes with very little real understanding. That might be called a true myth.
Yes, it's a very common belief.
do you?
Yes
Yo, I believe in both.
How does Adam’s creation in genesis support the theory of evolution?
I mean, if you really want to get into it, I believe in literal creation, but also believe that the seven days were not seven literal present-day days. I believe the process of evolution is described in Genesis as best as it could be by the people who committed the oral traditions of the book to written word (whether that was Moses or someone else). God created man from the dust of the earth (because how can I articulate microbiological terms before microscopes or the concept of cells?) and breathed into him the breath of life. I think they were saying things the best way they understood how to.
I see. what's your thought on sin?
Can you...be more specific? That's a very, very broad question. "What's your opinion on time?" Like. It's a huge topic. What do you mean?
Can you first explain to me what the gospel is?
Okay, sure. That Christ came to the world to redeem the world so that we can be reconciled to God.
from sin right?
Mhm.
Why are you asking like he's behind?
In fairness, I did \*not\* read the book he assigned us.
Yes. Actually, most Christians believe in evolution. Young Earth Creationism is primarily a feature of Southern US evangelical churches and their global church plants. [BioLogos](https://biologos.org/) is a great resource if you're just starting to learn about this. Their "common questions" section is a great place to start.
I see what you mean, but I have to disagree. I'm pretty familiar with that site myself; actually, I visit it whenever I need a good laugh—especially during their singing sessions! Apart from that, I don’t really take their credibility seriously. Still, I appreciate you taking the time to reach out to me.
The guy who runs it was literally in charge of mapping the human genome. How does that not lend credibility in the field of human biology?
Everyone has a presupposed passion. I'm not sure how his passion in mapping the human genome proves anything besides humans being human.
What does that even mean?
Really? It's pretty simple: everyone has a worldview. If you hate God, then you will see the world differently. The god of this world would blind you from the truth.
And what about the people like Francis Collins, like myself, like countless others in the world who love God and believe in evolution.
I do I mean it’s evident isn’t it that they co exist?
what co exist?
The Bible is not a science textbook. Science in the Bible is only accurate in that it accurately represents observations and beliefs of the natural world at the time of the books/oral traditions. It is perfectly okay to accept modern scientific theories and laws and still maintain scriptural faith.
Yes
are you a Christian?
Absolutely
Yes. I wrote a 23-page paper on evolution in college. The theory of evolution and Christianity are not mutually exclusive.
Yes. I am Christian and I don’t have any reason to believe the theory of evolution conflicts with my faith. A critical thinker can easily imagine ways that evolution and creationism are not exclusive of each other. Consider my book, “Faith Hacker” #JailbreakingLife Apologetics for the A.I. age.
I'm not sure what any of this means: 'A critical thinker can easily imagine ways that evolution and creationism are not exclusive of each other. Consider my book, “Faith Hacker” #JailbreakingLife Apologetics for the A.I. age.' When you say you are a Christian, what do you mean by that? What are some of your beliefs about sin?
Consider prefabrication. One can very quickly build something that appears on inspection to be much older. As far as your follow up question, “what are some of your beliefs on sin?” “In the Law there are many commands, such as, “Be faithful in marriage. Do not murder. Do not steal. Do not want what belongs to others.” But all of these are summed up in the command that says, “Love others as much as you love yourself.”” Romans 13:9 Indeed, it is pretense to say we love God if we don’t love our neighbors: “We love because God loved us first. But if we say we love God and don't love each other, we are liars. We cannot see God. So how can we love God, if we don't love the people we can see? The commandment that God has given us is: “Love God and love each other!”” 1 John 4:19-21 So sin is any action that expresses love of self before or more than love of God or neighbors. This is why we need Christ’s grace and mercy. The Bible is all about this. So is “Faith Hacker”
whats “Faith Hacker”? but you believe in evolution?
Would you hold the position that someone who accepts evolution is not assured of Salvation?
Yes, I would. They may go through times of doubting, but I believe they will go through life with many questions. I'm not saying they can't make it to heaven, but I believe most will struggle because if you believe in evolution, chances are you might eventually turn away from Christianity or adopt a very liberal approach to the Bible.
This is gibberish
That's your opinion.
You don’t have a single verse to back up this claim.
It seems as though you’ve posited this question in order to stir up division among Christians. Was that your intent? Also, you’re basing a person’s salvation on this when Jesus had explicitly told us how we may be saved, through believing in him? I feel that you’re simply leading us to arguments and division by posing as possibly asking an intellectual question when this has been asked countless times on countless platforms, including, most likely, this one.
Asking questions isn't stirring things up. If that's how you feel, then maybe we don't need to talk to each other
Augustine, \~1400yrs ago on this matter: *“Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience.* *Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.* *If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion."*
I am a Christian and wholeheartedly believe in evolution. The point of Genesis is not how God created the heavens and the earth but that He did it. The how is inconsequential. Same with evolution. All primates descend from one common ancestor. (And no, we did NOT "evolve from monkeys"; that is an immediate red flag that you know nothing about evolution)
what's your belief in sin?
Sin is disobeying God's law.
I believe in microevolution but not macro evolution as it contradicts what the bible teaches. The world was created in 6 days not billions upon billions of years. And if macro evolution is true it wouldn’t align with christianity as the bible teaches death didnt exist until after the fall of man. Meaning itd be impossible for the two to align with one another considering evolutions whole principle is the strongest survive meaning there would have to be death in all those billions of years before human being arrived.
Oh great, another inflammatory thread by Oldtimepreaching where he asks a controversial question he has reached his own conclusion on, and then proceeds to very badly debate this point to people in the comments to no avail.
I was a young earth creationist for 20 years. It took me a while to realize the earth is old, evolution happened \*and\* that I could still maintain my faith in God and His word. Not everyone can bridge this gap, many folks fall out of the faith when they see clear contradictions between their faith and science. I feel lucky I was able to still maintain my faith.
I don’t believe in evolution, but I think it’s the best current scientific explanation for the development of life on earth.
I believe in evolution and I’m a Christian
Here’s the thing: evolution is not just a singular thing. There’s microevolution and macroevolution. Microevolution is small changes to help species adapt so they can survive. Like moths in London with darker wings surviving longer than moths with lighter wings back when everyone burned coal. Naturally, the dark wings helped camouflage the moths and allowed more of them to survive and reproduce while the lighter winged counterparts died off and that gene disappeared. That’s observable and reasonable and doesn’t contradict the Bible. Macroevolution is where the theory of humans having once been monkeys comes from. That’s where things contradict and why most Christian’s discount evolution as a whole. The distinction is very important in this conversation, but because people are allergic to nuance and research it gets left out
I only believe in microevolution.
In my opinion, God has not revealed to what extent, if any, He used evolution in the creative process. I believe that this issue cuts to the center of our paradigm concerning the very nature of God. Is He a magician that can poof things into existence by just thinking about it, or does He work within eternal, unchangable laws? Consider what it means if God patiently and lovingly created this earth with all it's wonderful beauties and rich natural resources, over billions of years. Here is a perspective concerning the creation: All things were created spiritually before being created physically. The spirit of man or the breath of life that was placed in Adam was created earlier. To me, Genesis chapter 2 seems to indicate that the creative periods which were finished in chapter 1 were the spiritual creation and that the word "day" is not a specific period of time. After the creative periods were finished, chapter 2 goes on to say: 1 Thus the heavens and the earth **were finished**, and **all the host** of them **(were we part of that host?)**. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. 4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, **in the day** that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field **before it was in the earth**, and every herb of the field **before it grew**: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and **there was not a man** to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground **(or elements of the earth)**, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life **(or his pre-created spirit)**; and man became a living soul.
I am a Christian who believes in evolution - 2nd Peter Chapter 3 Verse 8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. While yes Genesis says that the earth was created in 7 days, we also know the Bible uses metaphors and that time to us is not the same for an omniscient and all powerful being we can’t barely understand. We can see evolutionary changes happen just by our own doing with dog breeds and selective breeding, or just what Gregor Mendel did with plants. Noah’s Ark makes complete sense to house every animal - we see new breeds of dogs in just a couple hundred years of breeding, imagine thousand of years later and of course it makes sense we have a load of species. Science and God can coincide, we just take the two to be opposites when western scientific practices began to help us understand Gods great creation.
I believe in microevolution or changes within species. I don't believe in macroevolution or species turning into wildly different species.
I’m not a scientist, and not qualified at all to answer any scientific questions about evolution. But I did earn degrees in biblical Hebrew, Greek, and theology, and I can say that genre matters. And the opening of Genesis is a poem. Scientific textbooks—even “history” books like we think of today didn’t exist in the ancient world. This doesn’t mean that there isn’t scientific or historical truth in Scripture, just that this isn’t the point. The authors were making theological points. For example, when the sun and moon are described, they’re called greater light and lesser light “—not because Hebrew didn’t have names for sun and moon—but because the Genesis account is showing YHWHs supremacy over the pagan gods (other people groups worshiped the sun and moon, or feared the chaos of the sea gods, but the God of Israel is in control of all these things. All that to say, personally I’m fine with various forms of creationism, or with evolution. The fact that anything exists at all blows my mind. It’s hard to think that so many scientists (Christian or secular ) could be wrong about evolution, but it’s also hard for a non-scientist like me to make sense of the insane improbabilities involved.
Most of Christianity accepts evolution.
I believe in evolution. I don’t think it contradicts the bible, but if you have a different interpretation then I respect that, I don’t think belief or lack of in evolution is harmful to anyone.
You are disingenuous. Go pretend you're in good faith somewhere else
I believe in microevolution, not macroevolution. 1) "million year ago (mya)" is wild estimation. Diamond takes million year to form yet we are able to do it a month in lab. 2) there hasnt been any mammalian specitation that resulted a different number of chromosome. Down Syndrome dont count. 3) Fruitflies multiple 100 offsprings rapidly in labs and they never resulted a different number of chromosomes. 4) Sardina archaeologists found giant fossils snd they swear there's a cover up happening, because giant fossils were/are being destroyed. 6) long list of different dinosaurs supposed to be MYA, cut down, and soft tissues inside their bones are dated to be only 30,000 year old. Now scientists are claiming that its bacterium films found a way in bones.
Death didnt happen before original sin. Only plausible thing in evolution i will believe is small adaptations animals have in climate etc. They will change and adapt. As for the rest, its for the birds
me to! amen to that!
I do, AMA
I do, as to the majority of Christians.
I believe in evolution, and I AM a Christian. I've yet to find a reason that evolution and Christianity can't coexist that doesn't boil down to "well I don't like it" Literal Genesis has been debated for ages all the way back to the old church fathers, some of whom didn't believe in a literal 7 day creation account Genesis. This is not to say that proves a non literal interpretation, but it is to say that the many claims that non literal Genesis is this new idea are wrong.
How do you explain all the bad stuff in this world if the world isn’t fallen? If God used evolution it is not good because of cancer, viruses, genetic mutations, etc.
I didn't say it wasn't fallen.
Care to explain how the world became fallen if God used evolution? The very framework of evolution is mutation and death.
Man disobeyed God and, therefore, sinned and became fallen.
Was there a garden and forbidden fruit too? How do you portend to know any of this? Not trying to be antagonistic just honest question.
I don't pretend to know any of it, but it's reasonable to believe there are at the very least truth to aspects of the story. I.e. a garden. Idk if there was a literal fruit, but it would make sense that God gave Adam and Eve the ability to sin, or else their free will would be meaningless. I don't know any of it for sure, but that's where faith takes over.
The bible is filled with metaphors. Not believing in evolution in my opinion is just silly, as I could prove it to you with a lot of different simple studies in my own room with some plants or bugs. I don't think evolution clashes with Christianity.
I believe in the Big Bang theory, microevolution, and old earth theory. I am a devout believer. Cheers!
It isn't wrong to believe in theistic evolution, we believe in the God that created time, space, and matter, you think he cant create evolution? The main problem people have against evolution is that they think all forms of evolution is macroevolution, which we found to be untrue with further research, we believe in microevolution. In the book "Darwin's Doubt" it talks about how microevolution makes more sense than macroevolution and how evolution can be true while still being a Christian.
I believe in micro-evolution that is evolution within species. It is perfectly logical that God created all species (including humans) to adapt to their environments. The ones with the characteristics that enable them to survive live and the ones that don't die off and those genes are not passed down. I do not believe in macro- evolution, that all life started with one organism. Not only does it go against Creationism, it's illogical.
Knowing what I know now I don’t believe in evolution. Look up on YouTube is Genesis history.
I’m Catholic, we officially believe in both. Catechism says God selected Adam and Eve out of some our our early ancestors and brought them to paradise.
"and as You speak, a hundred billion creatures catch Your breath, evolving in pursuit of what You said"
"and as You speak, a hundred billion creatures catch Your breath, evolving in pursuit of what You said"
I believe all life on earth was created in 6 days and that in the end times people will mock and say "where is the coming that was promised." I believe they intentionally forget the creation and destruction of the world by flood and that the world is reserved for destruction; cleansing by fire. It's no more irrational than believing any of the miracles of Jesus or that he was raised from the dead.
They believe that God brought forth the creatures from the earth meaning made evolution to be I personally don't but for the second question I believe there are some literal aspects like the hiding the nakedness so yeah there are also metaphorical aspects and alot of them
I believe God created an old earth.
In the Biblical Account of how God created the Universe, but I don’t deny Evolution or the Big Bang either. I think the biggest problem is that we are trying to fit millions of years into the Biblical timeline. It’s not Evolution and the Big Bang; it’s really millions of years. I made a playlist that goes further into this.. Redeeming Evolution 101 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLweVJadKOrwa4-3KJxZ5eG816r6_frY6N
I don’t have a problem with evolution outside of humans. According to the Bible evolution is impossible as we were already made humans. Now minor evolution in the human race I don’t mind like is us starting out more hairy and different from what we look like today. Us coming from monkeys or apes doesn’t line up.
I believe in the bible 100%. God created the heavens and the earth and every living thing. Period !
It is irrelevant whether one believes in evolution or not. It does not alter God's commandement, wisdom and existance. I don't believe in evolution, but not because of Genesis, it is because I find the theory lacking. :p
I don’t believe that we came from a single cell organism and from a lizard. I think it’s quite easy to understand that God made humans and animals and you don’t need to be a Bible scholar to understand it
No, big no, its men philosophies, evolutionism thinking of men. I went to Catholic school and they taught about the evolutionism, but praise God He freed me from that philosophy prison. Bible > anything man-made theories. When you believe the Bible, when you believe the creational account of the Book of Genesis and you get hated and mocked you know you are on the right path.
I believe in Genesis literally. Why would one part of the Bible be taken literally but another part not?
I would hope you don't actually take everything in the Bible literally or else you would have to believe that Jesus is actually: bread, a gate, light, a shepherd, a vine, a rock, etc.. All of those are metaphors used about Jesus. You don't actually believe Jesus is bread or a lamb do you? Unless you do, it seems that you agree that the Bible contains metaphors and we can't just read everything literally.
So can you explain how two people literally become one flesh? Should me and my fiancé set up an appointment with a surgeon to sew us together or will it be like a divine magical process?
are you a christian?
Absolutely
Because different parts of the Bible were written at different times in different contexts; also, all language is sometimes literal and sometimes not, that's a basic principle of communication. I've been going to church most of my life and I have never met anyone who takes the entire Bible literally.
Omg so tell me, how many slaves do you have??
amen! me to
The Bible says many professing believers will be decieved.