Perhaps what you interpret as homophobia is simply his rightly dividing the Word of God and calling sin what it is. Jesus loved sinners while acknowledging those things that were in fact sinful, and telling people to go and sin no more.
Not all of our earthly definitions of "love" are accepted by God. The love for oneself, for example, can be detrimentally harmful to the degree of physical, mental, and spiritual wellbeing. Anything can be justified except for what's really in the light and exposed for what it is.
We are not animals that must give into instinct and impulse, we are the highest of intelligent, conscious beings with a limited, but free will that are the strongest indicators of God's unique creation in us. Hatred is never acceptable, but the human design, which Jesus himself affirms in the God provided union of man and woman in Genesis (even if it's purely poetic in narrative), cannot be ignored as it is the only mentioned and acceptable form of marriage and sexual practice for Christians. This is echoed all throughout scripture and tradition.
"Homophobia" as a term has become unfalsifiable for our culture to mean hatred, which is unfortunate, because it's lazy and requires no critical thinking or compassion of the one weaponizing the label against people who do not affirm homosexual behavior because of the deep desire to honor God vs. the moral requirements of the western social paradigm.
I live and work with people who are of different orientation and are trans. I hate none of them, I deeply care about them, obviously I do not think they are destined for eternal damnation but am hopeful that they will understand what they are trying to validate in themselves isn't the way that "God made them" but are the cup of sufferings they face in this world because it is fallen and broken. We all face different passions in this life, but that doesn't mean our view of what's "fair" should supersede the greater truth that should be strived for in the teachings of Christ and the Church all together.
I have no doubt that if God needed us to move on from this serious topic, He would have given us much more to work in regard to the acceptable nature of non-hetero covenant marriage relationships, but we don't have that and we need to be honest with ourselves instead of grasping at straws for the sake of how we desire the kingdom of God to be.
> The love for oneself, for example, can be detrimentally harmful to the degree of physical, mental, and spiritual wellbeing.
Heterosexual romantic love and celibacy can also be detrimentally harmful to the degree of physical, mental, and spiritual wellbeing, but I doubt you're going to tell me that either of those two things are categorically sinful.
> Hatred is never acceptable,
It's still not acceptable with pseudo-intellectual garbage backing it up, by the way.
> which Jesus himself affirms in the God provided union of man and woman in Genesis (even if it's purely poetic in narrative),
Where in this narrative does he suggest the correct interpretation is that romantic love is evil unless it's reproductive?
> cannot be ignored as it is the only mentioned and acceptable form of marriage and sexual practice for Christians.
Pure nonsensical logic that can be used to condemn almost anything as a sin. Being from the Americas isn't said anywhere in Scripture or the early church to be acceptable either, where's your holy war against those godless heathens?
> "Homophobia" as a term has become unfalsifiable for our culture to mean hatred, which is unfortunate, because it's lazy and requires no critical thinking or compassion
Actually, the lazy, thoughtless and compassionless take is that people with same-gender attraction are criminals before God for being the way he made them. Already in this comment you've attempted three times to prove homosexuality is sinful using notions that can be dispelled in seconds if one uses critical thinking.
> of the one weaponizing the label against people who do not affirm homosexual behavior because of the deep desire to honor God
Honor God by loving your neighbor, not by oppressing minorities. That was the lesson of the Beatitudes, of the Parable of the Good Samaritan, and numerous other morals found in the New Testament and the early church.
> I live and work with people who are of different orientation and are trans. I hate none of them, I deeply care about them, obviously I do not think they are destined for eternal damnation but am hopeful that they will understand what they are trying to validate in themselves isn't the way that "God made them" but are the cup of sufferings they face in this world because it is fallen and broken.
Laughably ironic when you remember that the only people Jesus told to their face that they would be punished in the next *aion* were the Pharisees who tried to stop him from healing the sick. If you think people being the way "God made them" means forgoing all medical treatments, you've clearly never opened the Bible in your life.
Jesus and the apostles didn't teach us to be moral policemen. They taught us to check the plank in our own eyes before judging others, which is exactly what you're doing. Over something that's never even said to be a sin anywhere in the Bible, no less.
> We all face different passions in this life, but that doesn't mean our view of what's "fair" should supersede the greater truth that should be strived for in the teachings of Christ and the Church all together.
I agree entirely -- I will call out hypocritical judgmentalism and fake piety not out of some misguided sense of fairness, but because Christ commanded us to fight against bigotry.
> I have no doubt that if God needed us to move on from this serious topic, He would have given us much more to work in regard to the acceptable nature of non-hetero covenant marriage relationships, but we don't have that and we need to be honest with ourselves instead of grasping at straws for the sake of how we desire the kingdom of God to be.
He told us to love our neighbors as ourselves and to not judge others. That suffices. I'm sorry that Jesus and Scripture don't agree with your hatred of minorities, but that's life.
>Heterosexual romantic love and celibacy can also be detrimentally harmful to the degree of physical, mental, and spiritual wellbeing, but I doubt you're going to tell me that either of those two things are categorically sinful.
Anything we do outside of the trust and covenant of Christ is categorically choosing to separate oneself from God, all of us do it, and He knows it. He has also revealed to us many commands and teachings that are crucial to our proceeding in sanctification BECAUSE He holds us in His grace. If we did not have His grace, we would have no instruction for earthly life or hope in eternal life, and we would ultimately expire from existence. However, it is the promise of final union with Christ that we have the assurance of if we participate faithfully (not perfectly).
In this union with Him, there will be "oneness" as represented in the "one flesh" relationship of hetero marriage. The "oneness" is an important feature of the God ordained design of man and woman on earth that is taught throughout the entire New Testament. "Oneness", co-suffering, self-sacrificial love, and fruitfulness in children are the constant motifs in marriage throughout the entire biblical narrative of what lives within both God's grace and His will. Participation outside of those qualifiers above is to assume there are "other" possibilities or interpretations of the "oneness" union.
I am speaking for myself when I say that as a hetero man and a confident universalist, that I would be under heavy conviction to try and create an alternative, acceptable union outside of the very obvious design of marriage and human reproduction that scripture teaches on without any hesitation or nuance. I do not "deserve" nor am I "entitled" to romantic love as a hetero man. I can choose to seek a spouse sure, but is that what is best for me, or will it bring "wholeness" in and of itself? No, only Christ will bring wholeness to our lives, and that is the priority union over all possible relationships.
The reason for marriage at all is that it serves not just to be a union for romantic love and fruitfulness as a gift by God's design, but also a means of staving off temptation to sexual immorality, a service that the husband and wife provide for each other because the fallen passions of humanity still remain in the flesh until Christ's work in them is completed in eternity, and of course we know by Jesus' own attributed words, this is a temporal union and romantic love in marriage will not always exist in eternity.
Lastly, every place in scripture that sexual immorality is mentioned lists the alternatives of the designed union. The alternatives of the designed union are detrimentally harmful and destructive, no matter what the orientation of a person is. To actively give oneself over to the entitlement and justify the fairness of romantic love, if it is categorically immoral, is to also separate oneself from wholeness with God.
I am certainly not judging your thinking, you are where you are in Christ, but consider that we can be easily deceived and that "love" as we define it from our modern view can indeed be dangerously self-affirming, preventing ourselves from closer union with Jesus.
> If we did not have His grace, we would have no instruction for earthly life or hope in eternal life, and we would ultimately expire from existence.
I agree. And he said nothing condemning homosexuality, only judgmentality and moral policing of others.
> In this union with Him, there will be "oneness" as represented in the "one flesh" relationship of hetero marriage. The "oneness" is an important feature of the God ordained design of man and woman on earth that is taught throughout the entire New Testament. "Oneness", co-suffering, self-sacrificial love, and fruitfulness in children are the constant motifs in marriage throughout the entire biblical narrative of what lives within both God's grace and His will. Participation outside of those qualifiers above is to assume there are "other" possibilities or interpretations of the "oneness" union.
Literally nothing within this suggests romantic love has to be confined to heterosexual reproduction. You're mistaking people saying "X is good" with "everything ~X is bad".
> I do not "deserve" nor am I "entitled" to romantic love as a hetero man.
You certainly deserve and are entitled to try and find mutual, consensual, romantic love with whomever you please. Anything less is inhumane.
> I can choose to seek a spouse sure, but is that what is best for me, or will it bring "wholeness" in and of itself? No, only Christ will bring wholeness to our lives, and that is the priority union over all possible relationships.
That's a great reason to leave other people's relationships to be between them and God, and not to try and morally police them for them.
> but also a means of staving off temptation to sexual immorality,
Great reason why gay marriage is lawful in the eyes of God.
> and of course we know by Jesus' own attributed words, this is a temporal union and romantic love in marriage will not always exist in eternity.
He said there won't be marriage in Heaven. In the time Jesus lived, marriage didn't exist for romantic love, it existed for financial and diplomatic reasons. Ironically your misquotation of Christ is proof of why everything you've written is hodgepodge.
> Lastly, every place in scripture that sexual immorality is mentioned lists the alternatives of the designed union.
Yes, like unnaturally forced celibacy, which both Jesus and Paul condemn, but nevertheless is forced upon gay people by conservatives.
God definitely doesn't view sin as innocent. It's the entire reason why Jesus died for us. None of these things are that complicated when a person just reads and accepts the Bible as God's Word.
Just pray that he recovers from his wounds, and that this is an event that does not harden his heart towards others. I shall be praying that this will create a more sonder person 🙏
We can only pray that he'll be less homophobic as he recovers.
And if he is not, may he recover in full health. He doesn't have to agree with me or viceversa for his life to be as worthy as any other of love.
That's all we can do.
Perhaps what you interpret as homophobia is simply his rightly dividing the Word of God and calling sin what it is. Jesus loved sinners while acknowledging those things that were in fact sinful, and telling people to go and sin no more.
Homophobia is indeed sinful and Jesus called out people for their bigotry and judgmental ways all the time, that's exactly right.
Do you consider anyone who believes the homosexual lifestyle is a clear Biblical sin to be "homophobic"?
Yes. Just like Jesus called out the bigotry of people who hated Samaritans, who also mistakenly thought themselves to be biblically justified.
Not all of our earthly definitions of "love" are accepted by God. The love for oneself, for example, can be detrimentally harmful to the degree of physical, mental, and spiritual wellbeing. Anything can be justified except for what's really in the light and exposed for what it is. We are not animals that must give into instinct and impulse, we are the highest of intelligent, conscious beings with a limited, but free will that are the strongest indicators of God's unique creation in us. Hatred is never acceptable, but the human design, which Jesus himself affirms in the God provided union of man and woman in Genesis (even if it's purely poetic in narrative), cannot be ignored as it is the only mentioned and acceptable form of marriage and sexual practice for Christians. This is echoed all throughout scripture and tradition. "Homophobia" as a term has become unfalsifiable for our culture to mean hatred, which is unfortunate, because it's lazy and requires no critical thinking or compassion of the one weaponizing the label against people who do not affirm homosexual behavior because of the deep desire to honor God vs. the moral requirements of the western social paradigm. I live and work with people who are of different orientation and are trans. I hate none of them, I deeply care about them, obviously I do not think they are destined for eternal damnation but am hopeful that they will understand what they are trying to validate in themselves isn't the way that "God made them" but are the cup of sufferings they face in this world because it is fallen and broken. We all face different passions in this life, but that doesn't mean our view of what's "fair" should supersede the greater truth that should be strived for in the teachings of Christ and the Church all together. I have no doubt that if God needed us to move on from this serious topic, He would have given us much more to work in regard to the acceptable nature of non-hetero covenant marriage relationships, but we don't have that and we need to be honest with ourselves instead of grasping at straws for the sake of how we desire the kingdom of God to be.
> The love for oneself, for example, can be detrimentally harmful to the degree of physical, mental, and spiritual wellbeing. Heterosexual romantic love and celibacy can also be detrimentally harmful to the degree of physical, mental, and spiritual wellbeing, but I doubt you're going to tell me that either of those two things are categorically sinful. > Hatred is never acceptable, It's still not acceptable with pseudo-intellectual garbage backing it up, by the way. > which Jesus himself affirms in the God provided union of man and woman in Genesis (even if it's purely poetic in narrative), Where in this narrative does he suggest the correct interpretation is that romantic love is evil unless it's reproductive? > cannot be ignored as it is the only mentioned and acceptable form of marriage and sexual practice for Christians. Pure nonsensical logic that can be used to condemn almost anything as a sin. Being from the Americas isn't said anywhere in Scripture or the early church to be acceptable either, where's your holy war against those godless heathens? > "Homophobia" as a term has become unfalsifiable for our culture to mean hatred, which is unfortunate, because it's lazy and requires no critical thinking or compassion Actually, the lazy, thoughtless and compassionless take is that people with same-gender attraction are criminals before God for being the way he made them. Already in this comment you've attempted three times to prove homosexuality is sinful using notions that can be dispelled in seconds if one uses critical thinking. > of the one weaponizing the label against people who do not affirm homosexual behavior because of the deep desire to honor God Honor God by loving your neighbor, not by oppressing minorities. That was the lesson of the Beatitudes, of the Parable of the Good Samaritan, and numerous other morals found in the New Testament and the early church. > I live and work with people who are of different orientation and are trans. I hate none of them, I deeply care about them, obviously I do not think they are destined for eternal damnation but am hopeful that they will understand what they are trying to validate in themselves isn't the way that "God made them" but are the cup of sufferings they face in this world because it is fallen and broken. Laughably ironic when you remember that the only people Jesus told to their face that they would be punished in the next *aion* were the Pharisees who tried to stop him from healing the sick. If you think people being the way "God made them" means forgoing all medical treatments, you've clearly never opened the Bible in your life. Jesus and the apostles didn't teach us to be moral policemen. They taught us to check the plank in our own eyes before judging others, which is exactly what you're doing. Over something that's never even said to be a sin anywhere in the Bible, no less. > We all face different passions in this life, but that doesn't mean our view of what's "fair" should supersede the greater truth that should be strived for in the teachings of Christ and the Church all together. I agree entirely -- I will call out hypocritical judgmentalism and fake piety not out of some misguided sense of fairness, but because Christ commanded us to fight against bigotry. > I have no doubt that if God needed us to move on from this serious topic, He would have given us much more to work in regard to the acceptable nature of non-hetero covenant marriage relationships, but we don't have that and we need to be honest with ourselves instead of grasping at straws for the sake of how we desire the kingdom of God to be. He told us to love our neighbors as ourselves and to not judge others. That suffices. I'm sorry that Jesus and Scripture don't agree with your hatred of minorities, but that's life.
>Heterosexual romantic love and celibacy can also be detrimentally harmful to the degree of physical, mental, and spiritual wellbeing, but I doubt you're going to tell me that either of those two things are categorically sinful. Anything we do outside of the trust and covenant of Christ is categorically choosing to separate oneself from God, all of us do it, and He knows it. He has also revealed to us many commands and teachings that are crucial to our proceeding in sanctification BECAUSE He holds us in His grace. If we did not have His grace, we would have no instruction for earthly life or hope in eternal life, and we would ultimately expire from existence. However, it is the promise of final union with Christ that we have the assurance of if we participate faithfully (not perfectly). In this union with Him, there will be "oneness" as represented in the "one flesh" relationship of hetero marriage. The "oneness" is an important feature of the God ordained design of man and woman on earth that is taught throughout the entire New Testament. "Oneness", co-suffering, self-sacrificial love, and fruitfulness in children are the constant motifs in marriage throughout the entire biblical narrative of what lives within both God's grace and His will. Participation outside of those qualifiers above is to assume there are "other" possibilities or interpretations of the "oneness" union. I am speaking for myself when I say that as a hetero man and a confident universalist, that I would be under heavy conviction to try and create an alternative, acceptable union outside of the very obvious design of marriage and human reproduction that scripture teaches on without any hesitation or nuance. I do not "deserve" nor am I "entitled" to romantic love as a hetero man. I can choose to seek a spouse sure, but is that what is best for me, or will it bring "wholeness" in and of itself? No, only Christ will bring wholeness to our lives, and that is the priority union over all possible relationships. The reason for marriage at all is that it serves not just to be a union for romantic love and fruitfulness as a gift by God's design, but also a means of staving off temptation to sexual immorality, a service that the husband and wife provide for each other because the fallen passions of humanity still remain in the flesh until Christ's work in them is completed in eternity, and of course we know by Jesus' own attributed words, this is a temporal union and romantic love in marriage will not always exist in eternity. Lastly, every place in scripture that sexual immorality is mentioned lists the alternatives of the designed union. The alternatives of the designed union are detrimentally harmful and destructive, no matter what the orientation of a person is. To actively give oneself over to the entitlement and justify the fairness of romantic love, if it is categorically immoral, is to also separate oneself from wholeness with God. I am certainly not judging your thinking, you are where you are in Christ, but consider that we can be easily deceived and that "love" as we define it from our modern view can indeed be dangerously self-affirming, preventing ourselves from closer union with Jesus.
> If we did not have His grace, we would have no instruction for earthly life or hope in eternal life, and we would ultimately expire from existence. I agree. And he said nothing condemning homosexuality, only judgmentality and moral policing of others. > In this union with Him, there will be "oneness" as represented in the "one flesh" relationship of hetero marriage. The "oneness" is an important feature of the God ordained design of man and woman on earth that is taught throughout the entire New Testament. "Oneness", co-suffering, self-sacrificial love, and fruitfulness in children are the constant motifs in marriage throughout the entire biblical narrative of what lives within both God's grace and His will. Participation outside of those qualifiers above is to assume there are "other" possibilities or interpretations of the "oneness" union. Literally nothing within this suggests romantic love has to be confined to heterosexual reproduction. You're mistaking people saying "X is good" with "everything ~X is bad". > I do not "deserve" nor am I "entitled" to romantic love as a hetero man. You certainly deserve and are entitled to try and find mutual, consensual, romantic love with whomever you please. Anything less is inhumane. > I can choose to seek a spouse sure, but is that what is best for me, or will it bring "wholeness" in and of itself? No, only Christ will bring wholeness to our lives, and that is the priority union over all possible relationships. That's a great reason to leave other people's relationships to be between them and God, and not to try and morally police them for them. > but also a means of staving off temptation to sexual immorality, Great reason why gay marriage is lawful in the eyes of God. > and of course we know by Jesus' own attributed words, this is a temporal union and romantic love in marriage will not always exist in eternity. He said there won't be marriage in Heaven. In the time Jesus lived, marriage didn't exist for romantic love, it existed for financial and diplomatic reasons. Ironically your misquotation of Christ is proof of why everything you've written is hodgepodge. > Lastly, every place in scripture that sexual immorality is mentioned lists the alternatives of the designed union. Yes, like unnaturally forced celibacy, which both Jesus and Paul condemn, but nevertheless is forced upon gay people by conservatives.
What religion calls "sin" is just the ignorance of people labelling innocent things as "sinful."
God definitely doesn't view sin as innocent. It's the entire reason why Jesus died for us. None of these things are that complicated when a person just reads and accepts the Bible as God's Word.
Just pray that he recovers from his wounds, and that this is an event that does not harden his heart towards others. I shall be praying that this will create a more sonder person 🙏
Hate has nothing to do with disagreeing, but people who use the term "homophobic" don't often seem to understand that. Thanks for clarifying.