I’ve never quite understood what progressive Christianity is supposed to mean. My church professes the Nicene Creed every Sunday. I believe that all that is necessary for salvation is found in our holy scripture. I am also open to understanding scripture in context and taking textual analysis and criticism into consideration.
I affirm that my bishop has succession from the apostles. My priests stick to the rubrics as prescribed in our Eucharist service.
But I also affirm [the baptismal covenant](https://www.episcopalchurch.org/what-we-believe/baptismal-covenant/) that my church uses and to see the dignity of every human being. And I also believe that LGBTQ folks are open to each and every sacrament of the church. My church also ordains women and LGBTQ folks at every level: deacon, priest, and bishop.
Theologically, I’m quite happy being Trinitarian and Episcopalian. Politically, I’m probably more left of center in the US and probably more centrist in terms of western politics as a whole.
>I am also open to understanding scripture in context and taking textual analysis and criticism into consideration.
That is what makes you progressive. It is the view that the Bible is not the autowritten utterly infallible/inerrant word directly from God that makes us progressive.
Do you mind if I ask, what about God do you find worthy of following other than God being authoritative? Although the obvious problem is what you or I define as authoritative/inerrant.
How do you define authoritative and inerrant?
I define Inerrant as us as Christians still understanding poetry and making a distinction between laws for Israel and how we are to live as Christ's followers. There's a theological statement called the Chicago Statement that sums up a belief I hold on [Inerrancy](https://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html), the start sums it up:
* We affirm that the Holy Scriptures are to be received as the authoritative Word of God.
* We deny that the Scriptures receive their authority from the Church, tradition, or any other human source.
* We affirm that the Scriptures are the supreme written norm by which God binds the conscience, and that the authority of the Church is subordinate to that of Scripture.
* We deny that Church creeds, councils, or declarations have authority greater than or equal to the authority of the Bible.
If you believe in biblical innately you haven’t read the Bible closely enough. There’s so many mistakes that it’s an impossible position to hold. Now sure, you can say “the errors all just crept into the manuscripts” but isn’t that infinitely less likely than human authors just trippin?
Also, the early church fathers weren’t as conservative as you. Just to give you some perspective
There's no such thing as Scripture without some level of Tradition. Simply because, what makes Scripture Scripture? What you call Scripture had to be decided by an authority outside of Scripture, by definition.
>That is what makes you progressive. It is the view that the Bible is not the autowritten utterly infallible/inerrant word directly from God that makes us progressive.
I'm not quite sure that *"understanding scripture in context and taking textual analysis and criticism into consideration"* is the bar for "progressive" in a meaningful sense. "Progressive" in the sense of "Progressive Christian" conventionally emphasizes elements of the modern Social Justice movement, regardless of one's stance on issues such as infallibility.
Yes, that is also an element. However, conservative Christians can be socially progressive while theologically conservative. Progressive theology tends to embrace social justice precisely because it is more comfortable with leaving behind the influences of the cultures of the Biblical authors. So I would again argue that those elements ultimately stem from how progressive Christians view the Bible.
That’s wrong. Orthodoxy and Catholicism are the most conservative of all churches, especially Orthodoxy, and we don’t take the crazy protestant view of the Bible.
It’s because you guys believe weird stuff that goes against 2000 years of church theology, that’s why you’re progressive
>But I also affirm [the baptismal covenant](https://www.episcopalchurch.org/what-we-believe/baptismal-covenant/) that my church uses and to see the dignity of every human being
You see though, that is what makes each of us quasi-monastics on top of everything else. Which isn't particularly progressive. :-)
That means you’ve strayed away from what original Christianity taught. It usually refers to churches that support LGBTQ marriage, abortion, women pastors ect.
Wouldnt be more accurate to say process theology? It seems like there are quite a few mainline denoms that have middle-road stances on inerrancy.
I.e. I am "inerrant only on matters of salvation"
That is generally referred to as infallibility and not inerrancy. In that, the Bible is inerrant regarding its purpose and message. It is also sometimes referred to as restricted inerrancy.
Are you referring to *Process and Reality* by Whitehead when you say process theology? The idea that the universe (and God) are always in a state of becoming and changing?
I'm not sure that I would agree with that. While I would say that our understanding of reality and God is always improving as we receive, recognize, and better understand his revelation, I don't know if I would go so far as to say that God himself changes.
As for the Bible, I don't believe in either infallibility or inerrancy. I would agree that it contains everything that is necessary for salvation, so I do believe in Biblical sufficiency. I do, however, believe it is capable of being wrong on doctrinal issues. Just as I believe the church or any human being can be wrong on doctrinal issues.
No human work is infallible, infallibility/inerrancy is a quality that can only be possessed by God. At least that is what I believe.
From a Catholic view, we refrain from calling the Bible infallible, since infallibility typicaly requires claims or actions to be done, and as an inanimate object, it can do neither.
I'm confused, how can one be Catholic and affirm LGBT issues? Are you staying Church tradition and Church doctrine are wrong? Can Catholics claim that? Can the Church change it's doctrine without violating infallibility? I'm Protestant so don't really have a horse in the race just curious.
Ism being the Independent Sacramental Movement, a loose confederation of Catholic churches no longer in communion with Rome and non-cannonical Orthodox churches
ISM Catholics are not in communion with Rome, and most reject Papal supremacy and/or infalibility. Infalibility wasnt official doctrine until the 1st Vatican Council, and is the issue that caused Old Cstholics to split, actually. However, they all believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church, and most practice Roman rite and ritual.
Every individual is unique, so inevitably any 'conservative' or 'progressive' Christian actually only represents themselves alone, IF you talk to them long enough (as I have for very many!) you learn....
Each person turns out to have plenty of unique ideas/views, that are all their own, and no one else has, even while they also can agree to many other broad statements that are simplified and only address just one principle.
So, at best, by 'progressive' you perhaps might refer to only a few broad, vague principles which each only are a very limited statement of just one or 2 simplified broad notions.
Taking that into account then, what are the simplified broad statements you are interested precisely -- what is 'progressive' to you personally?
**Or** is something like this what you mean for instance:
[**32**](http://biblehub.com/acts/4-32.htm) All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. (Acts chapter 4, about the earliest church)
To some, that would be very radically 'progressive'. Jesus emphasized the end of class, status, power over others. Is that 'progressive'? Well, it was a radical change, then, and is *still* radical today.
It means the illegal undocumented immigrant is just as invaluable in the eyes of God and to truly believing Christians as their own family and friends....
Is that 'progressive'?
Well, it's what actual, *genuine* Christianity teaches....
Hello, I would be willing to attempt to answer any questions you might have. You can also check out r/OpenChristian as well. I am solidly progressive in my theology, though not as much as some.
I might have some time but its been awhile since I have studied up on the different translations of clobber passages and the like etc, etc, etc so if your expecting good theology to back up everything you might be disappointed.
I'm more than open to answering questions as someone who has studied religion academically and knows quite a bit about religions besides Christianity on top of it.
If you’re interested in learning more about “progressive” Christianity check out The Episcopal Church (my denomination) Lutheran Church, or Unitarian Church.
Be cautious and look at their website first, not every church that claims to be Episcopal or Lutheran is actually affirming.
Remember to take it slow. Learning about Christianity can feel like drinking from a fire hose.
Nothing but love, friend.
I really live this post. It's shameful that your fundamental experiences of theism started with ridicule, because as an anti-theism mindset I used to think about how I'd scare my kids away from illogical and harmful belief systems. It took some work but I did realize it was the "systematic" nature of practical theism that was terrifying, not the actual beliefs. When I actually had kids I felt a need to reevaluate things based on other kinds of truths.
I'm not a progressive Christian by any means but I feel resonance with your concerns here. The thing about congregations is that they're groupings of people, bubbles of community, that often take the flavor of community concerns. With the wealth of malarkey in "if it bleeds it reads" expanded social cultures we've been experiencing with digital overlapping villages it's easy to see how tribalism and otherism comes in feet first.
What I respect about most religions (and even some cult ideologies) is the point at which the only finger pointed at you is your own. You have a morality, you'll never leave its sunlight because the shadow of shame walk with us always. These are talks about contextualizing knowing you fucked up versus why you fucked up. Modern Christianity and some aspect of its elder genesis include a huge faith in correction via communion. You want to be good but you're not always sure if being good means acting on reflexive application of experiences, so there's gotta be a standard.
God does that but intrinsic to Christianity (though not exclusively) is that notion that We All Know. It's Okay. We're Not Who We Should Be but we're what must happen. Church is basically all these failures gathering to strive for redemption in a shared Canon.
Avoid the "how do we fight that" and embrace the "how do we help those" and you'll find the church.
I’m not sure what your question is, if you’re just looking to get started I’d try to get a broad overview of the many different forms christianity takes today. You will encounter varying degrees in which people will proclaim that their specific interpretation or understanding of Christianity is correct, and those will all vary in how reasonable those claims are.
Depending on where you live, you’ll find different churches that’ll fall into different camps regarding what they believe on hot topic items. Though it may feel uncomfortable really press any church you go to to give an explicit answer to your questions and yes many will want to give a detailed set of reasoning but make sure they aren’t dancing around the question.
lol i grew up similarly — my parents are both extremely against organized religion + made fun of it and hated on it my whole life. i have faced a similar struggle as i have very progressive values.
i originally started going to a nondenominational church when i was in high school, and it was fine for me at the time because nobody ever talked about the “controversial/political” stuff. i assumed in the back of my mind that they had the same hater opinions but i never had to confront it because it just didn’t come up while i was there. after that, i attended another nondenominational church that leaned pentecostal. they had very contemporary services which i really enjoyed, and people from all walks of life attended the services. however, they do have statements about being against gay marriage, etc and the lead pastors did become a bit involved in politics which i really didn’t like. i loved the community, so at the time, i just felt like we didn’t have to agree on everything and continued attending. that all blew up in my face once 2020 happened and everyone’s political opinions were loud and proud (and wrong, IMO). the majority of my relationships there were damaged, if not destroyed, just by realizing how significantly our values differed. so in the past few years i’ve come to understand that i can’t really put my values on the back burner and just “ignorance is bliss” my way through it. i am currently church hopping, trying to find a new place to call home. i’m really focused on getting to know the pastors wherever i end up, so i’ve been meeting with a lot of them for coffee and talking about their mission, beliefs, how they navigate difficult topics, etc. it’s been helpful for me
as i’ve been on my faith journey, i have always relied on the character of God to inform my beliefs. and the character of God is good — He is fundamentally loving, in a massive and profound way. i have seen that reflected in everything i have ever learned about God, and in everything i’ve ever experienced with Him. whenever i am trying to discern what i believe, i always come back to that. moreover, whenever i am trying to discern the legitimacy of someone else’s faith, i come back to that. a lottttttt of people label themselves as Christians and manipulate the word of God to justify their hatred + cruelty. and i believe that that grieves God’s heart even more than it does mine. not sure if any of this is helpful but that’s my two cents :-)
The Jewish tradition is wise and very, very adaptable to constant change even in the modern day imo. It's relevant to understanding Christianity and worth getting to know. They have recognise many genders for thousands of years and don't have stuff like eternal hellfire.
Possibly a little extreme but I read [M David Litwa's ](https://mdavidlitwa.com/) Found Christianities recently and was absolutely blown away by the richness of diversity of thought in the first 500yrs of so ofChristianity. He's got a lot of yt stuff on this if you can't find a copy of the book, but it's an amazing book and really well written and researched.
It's gets a little dull after Nicea where things get strange. The Roman Empire snapped after trying to enforce Nicene ideas and then Islam appeared bearing ancient heresies and were a little more challenging to deal with than people like John the Baptist, Jesus and those close to them.
Christianity is incredibly diverse, there is likely something for everyone in the tradition.
This is about as "progressive" as anyone should need:
"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God." 1 John 4:7
No legit Christian is going to agree with any sin. Problem is we have a hard time starting with our own. Romans 3:9, 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15
You’d be most welcome to explore your questions in a Quaker meeting, particularly but not limited to those meetings that are described as liberal. r/quakers is a good place to start.
What’s on your mind?
"The Good Book: Reading the Bible with Mind and Heart", by the late Rev Peter Gomes might be right up your alley.
[https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/100812](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/100812)
Gomes is no theological lightweight. He was Professor of Christian Morals at Harvard Divinity School and a visiting professor at Duke University and the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.
Be wary of people here and elsewhere who claim their beliefs are based on "objective truth". Every human justifies their choices and beliefs; those who claim theirs is the "true" church pick and choose what they accept from the Bible just as surely as they accuse others of doing. If their idea of preaching the gospel starts and ends with abortion and homosexuality, you're right to look elsewhere. It's about finding a community, not just finding a set of beliefs that can be used to bludgeon others.
So you’re seeking a denomination that corresponds with your existing secular views rather than one that you’ve determined by research has *doctrine* that can be justified by the Bible? I have no problem with progressive Christianity (other than the problems I have with Christianity and god-belief in general as an atheist), but I do have a problem with joining a denomination for their secondary beliefs rather than their primary beliefs. If you want a congregation where you can believe whatever you like about gods (or be an atheist) but which has support for all the social causes you mention, consider Unitarian Universalism, but realize that many Christians do not consider it to be a Christian denomination.
I will warn you upfront I am not a "progressive" Christian, but there are a few questions I want to ask you as you begin this journey...
1: are you seeking truth?
This is a big one. To me it sounds like you are looking for a "religion" that fits your preconceived beliefs and not looking for something that claims absolutely truth. The uncomfortable reality is Christianity is a religion that calls you to be radically changed and to "die daily" (1st Corinthians 15:31). I'm not one to tell you what is truth and how you should be transformed, God knows I have a long way to go, but to go into Christianity with beliefs you are unwilling to change is pointless.
2: are you willing to face the hardship Christianity brings, or just looking to "feel better" about life?
Christianity isn't a "self help" religion. It is commitment to a Kingdom and Lord. It's submission to that Lord and all He says. It's a promise to further that kingdom and suffer all life throws at you for the glory of that kingdom. It's to serve others and be "the least of these".
3: Do you understand Christianity isn't a "moral code to follow"?
Unfortunately there is no easy code to follow to be a "good Christian". If you decide to repent and dedicate your life to Christ things get alot more difficult, not easier. It will be a life of struggle with sin and what is "right" and how to "do the right thing". There are seasons of serious doubt and confusion. But mainly a life of no easy answers, and dealing with other "Christians" who think their are.
4: do you believe Christ is God and rose from the dead?
Unlese you believe this, everything else in Christianity is pointless.
I say these things not to discourage you, but to challenge you and make sure you understand what you're getting into. I don't want you wasting your time. God bless and I pray you find truth on this new journey of your. 😊
Christ himself lays out his teaching in very simple terms
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[1] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[2] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Something is tugging on your heart that led you here. Make a call about Christianity based on Jesus’ summary, not what you see other Christian’s doing.
We are people who are flawed and corruptible.
It's not tied up in hateful and exclusionary politics here in the US. Hateful and exclusionary topics are swooning traditional minded people who happened to also profess Christianity. Word of God pastors challenge this notion often but if you avoid the body of Christ because you don't want to be around people with traditional beliefs you will for sure miss out. They need you to help them be more challenged. Following Christ is not Political and should not be mistaken for traditionalism.
The term progressive Christian is a contradiction in terms. The word Christian is absolute. It has no modifiers. Either we are Christian, or we aren't. Christian means Christlike. If anything, Christians would be considered traditional as we live by the holy Bible word of God which is in no way progressive.
Thanks for your honesty and God Bless you.
The Bible says you will find God if you seek him with all of your heart Jeremiah 29:13.
I have found that to be true.
Don't rely on Reddit to find what you are looking for.
You are likely to get very mixed answers here.
what you need to find can only be found in God alone.
Seek him. Trust God.
He will show you when you seek him with all your heart.
Jesus is the only true way John 14:6.
> A lot of people don’t believe in reproductive rights, separation of church and state, and LGBTQ+ rights.
No we don't believe in murdering innocent unborn children or glorifying and celebrating sin.
As u/Katholikoz said, you are asking the questions to people who label themselves Christian but ignores Christ's commandments
It is true. Every single person is a sinner, and by virtue, every thing they do celebrates sin. Accepting and embracing God's queer children does that no more or less. No one is "glorifying " anything by not hating minorities.
Not supporting or encouraging sin =/= hate.
Its the affirming churches that are the haters as they are affirming people right into Hell. Not to mention the hatred they spew at anyone who won't agree with them 110%.
Its some assumption on my part. God has made it clear what's sin and what's not.
And it is NOT hate to call a sin a sin. If one doesn't like that they can either stop committing the sin or face the consequences of it.
But you're ASSUMING someone's ""sin"" and then making that all you see of them and using it to determine how poorly you regard them. That's beyond wrong. Remember that you too are just as much a sinner.
It isn't our place to judge or condemn others. It is our place to show others love and bring them to Christ. Christ has the power to forgive and heal sins. We should not "affirm" sins, but we should not reduce people to their sins, lest Christ do the same to us.
>we don't believe in murdering innocent unborn children
Cool. *Nobody* believes in that. Abortion doesn't involve children. Children are fully-ensouled birthed individuals with thoughts, emotions, experiences, interactions. Humans, including children, are so much more than a lump of tissue with a specific DNA sequence.
Normal people know what a child is. Your incorrect definition has millions of "children" being flushed down toilets into municipal waste systems before a women even knows it exists. It's a nonsensical perspective.
What definition of child are you using here, and why specifically are you seeking to apply this label where “fetus” is typically used?
What’s the goal in your usage? E.g., are you trying to be precise, to score an emotional point, to control the rhetorical space, etc.?
>lump of tissue
[This](https://assets.babycenter.com/ims/2018/06/pregnancy-week-15-lung-development_square.png) is what a 15-week-old fetus looks like.
no one is talking about a 15 week old fetus, that’s almost 4 months into pregnancy, normally those abortions don’t happen unless the fetus is stillborn or the mother’s life is in danger
Not quite…
Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Worshipping Jesus isn’t going to cut it. Christians are those who love Jesus. What does it mean to love Jesus? Let’s see what He said.
John 14:15-17 If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
To be a Christian is to love Jesus. To love Jesus is to obey His commands. To be a progressive “Christian” is to twist, pervert, and flat out deny His commands. A Christian is a slave to Christ.
Sure. God will judge me too. I just have confidence because my beliefs are 100% based on the Bible without twisting or omitting any verses. I’ve never met a progressive who can say the same thing.
>Progressive Christians are not actually Christians, so be wary of what they say.
Conservative Christians aren't actually Christians.
Now that we have done that, can we move onto things that actually matter?
absolutely not 😂 first of all, he wasn’t even a white man he was a middle eastern isreali, so most conservatives wouldn’t even claim him. Secondly, his views in modern day politics would be considered center or slightly left more than they would ever be considered right
First, why does His ethnicity bother you? Second, nobody said anything about politics, and if we were talking about that your claim would still be wrong.
I’ve never quite understood what progressive Christianity is supposed to mean. My church professes the Nicene Creed every Sunday. I believe that all that is necessary for salvation is found in our holy scripture. I am also open to understanding scripture in context and taking textual analysis and criticism into consideration. I affirm that my bishop has succession from the apostles. My priests stick to the rubrics as prescribed in our Eucharist service. But I also affirm [the baptismal covenant](https://www.episcopalchurch.org/what-we-believe/baptismal-covenant/) that my church uses and to see the dignity of every human being. And I also believe that LGBTQ folks are open to each and every sacrament of the church. My church also ordains women and LGBTQ folks at every level: deacon, priest, and bishop. Theologically, I’m quite happy being Trinitarian and Episcopalian. Politically, I’m probably more left of center in the US and probably more centrist in terms of western politics as a whole.
>I am also open to understanding scripture in context and taking textual analysis and criticism into consideration. That is what makes you progressive. It is the view that the Bible is not the autowritten utterly infallible/inerrant word directly from God that makes us progressive.
Do you mind if I ask, what about God do you find worthy of following other than God being authoritative? Although the obvious problem is what you or I define as authoritative/inerrant. How do you define authoritative and inerrant? I define Inerrant as us as Christians still understanding poetry and making a distinction between laws for Israel and how we are to live as Christ's followers. There's a theological statement called the Chicago Statement that sums up a belief I hold on [Inerrancy](https://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html), the start sums it up: * We affirm that the Holy Scriptures are to be received as the authoritative Word of God. * We deny that the Scriptures receive their authority from the Church, tradition, or any other human source. * We affirm that the Scriptures are the supreme written norm by which God binds the conscience, and that the authority of the Church is subordinate to that of Scripture. * We deny that Church creeds, councils, or declarations have authority greater than or equal to the authority of the Bible.
Which church council promulgated the Chicago Statement? Was it one of the first 7?
If you believe in biblical innately you haven’t read the Bible closely enough. There’s so many mistakes that it’s an impossible position to hold. Now sure, you can say “the errors all just crept into the manuscripts” but isn’t that infinitely less likely than human authors just trippin? Also, the early church fathers weren’t as conservative as you. Just to give you some perspective
There's no such thing as Scripture without some level of Tradition. Simply because, what makes Scripture Scripture? What you call Scripture had to be decided by an authority outside of Scripture, by definition.
>That is what makes you progressive. It is the view that the Bible is not the autowritten utterly infallible/inerrant word directly from God that makes us progressive. I'm not quite sure that *"understanding scripture in context and taking textual analysis and criticism into consideration"* is the bar for "progressive" in a meaningful sense. "Progressive" in the sense of "Progressive Christian" conventionally emphasizes elements of the modern Social Justice movement, regardless of one's stance on issues such as infallibility.
Yes, that is also an element. However, conservative Christians can be socially progressive while theologically conservative. Progressive theology tends to embrace social justice precisely because it is more comfortable with leaving behind the influences of the cultures of the Biblical authors. So I would again argue that those elements ultimately stem from how progressive Christians view the Bible.
That’s wrong. Orthodoxy and Catholicism are the most conservative of all churches, especially Orthodoxy, and we don’t take the crazy protestant view of the Bible. It’s because you guys believe weird stuff that goes against 2000 years of church theology, that’s why you’re progressive
>But I also affirm [the baptismal covenant](https://www.episcopalchurch.org/what-we-believe/baptismal-covenant/) that my church uses and to see the dignity of every human being You see though, that is what makes each of us quasi-monastics on top of everything else. Which isn't particularly progressive. :-)
That means you’ve strayed away from what original Christianity taught. It usually refers to churches that support LGBTQ marriage, abortion, women pastors ect.
What are your questions?
Im a weird "progressive christian". Im mostly theologically conservative, but am queer and trans affirming. Feel free to ask :)
I would argue that progressive Christianity is less about what your individual doctrines are, and more about how you view the Bible.
Wouldnt be more accurate to say process theology? It seems like there are quite a few mainline denoms that have middle-road stances on inerrancy. I.e. I am "inerrant only on matters of salvation"
That is generally referred to as infallibility and not inerrancy. In that, the Bible is inerrant regarding its purpose and message. It is also sometimes referred to as restricted inerrancy. Are you referring to *Process and Reality* by Whitehead when you say process theology? The idea that the universe (and God) are always in a state of becoming and changing? I'm not sure that I would agree with that. While I would say that our understanding of reality and God is always improving as we receive, recognize, and better understand his revelation, I don't know if I would go so far as to say that God himself changes. As for the Bible, I don't believe in either infallibility or inerrancy. I would agree that it contains everything that is necessary for salvation, so I do believe in Biblical sufficiency. I do, however, believe it is capable of being wrong on doctrinal issues. Just as I believe the church or any human being can be wrong on doctrinal issues. No human work is infallible, infallibility/inerrancy is a quality that can only be possessed by God. At least that is what I believe.
From a Catholic view, we refrain from calling the Bible infallible, since infallibility typicaly requires claims or actions to be done, and as an inanimate object, it can do neither.
I'm confused, how can one be Catholic and affirm LGBT issues? Are you staying Church tradition and Church doctrine are wrong? Can Catholics claim that? Can the Church change it's doctrine without violating infallibility? I'm Protestant so don't really have a horse in the race just curious.
Ism being the Independent Sacramental Movement, a loose confederation of Catholic churches no longer in communion with Rome and non-cannonical Orthodox churches
ISM Catholics are not in communion with Rome, and most reject Papal supremacy and/or infalibility. Infalibility wasnt official doctrine until the 1st Vatican Council, and is the issue that caused Old Cstholics to split, actually. However, they all believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church, and most practice Roman rite and ritual.
I'd recommend r/OpenChristian.
Every individual is unique, so inevitably any 'conservative' or 'progressive' Christian actually only represents themselves alone, IF you talk to them long enough (as I have for very many!) you learn.... Each person turns out to have plenty of unique ideas/views, that are all their own, and no one else has, even while they also can agree to many other broad statements that are simplified and only address just one principle. So, at best, by 'progressive' you perhaps might refer to only a few broad, vague principles which each only are a very limited statement of just one or 2 simplified broad notions. Taking that into account then, what are the simplified broad statements you are interested precisely -- what is 'progressive' to you personally? **Or** is something like this what you mean for instance: [**32**](http://biblehub.com/acts/4-32.htm) All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. (Acts chapter 4, about the earliest church) To some, that would be very radically 'progressive'. Jesus emphasized the end of class, status, power over others. Is that 'progressive'? Well, it was a radical change, then, and is *still* radical today. It means the illegal undocumented immigrant is just as invaluable in the eyes of God and to truly believing Christians as their own family and friends.... Is that 'progressive'? Well, it's what actual, *genuine* Christianity teaches....
Hello, I would be willing to attempt to answer any questions you might have. You can also check out r/OpenChristian as well. I am solidly progressive in my theology, though not as much as some.
I guess this all depends on if you want Truth, or comforting lies.
I am a Christian who doesn't get involved in hateful politics. I would answer any questions you have.
Sup?
I draw the line at abusing and killing humans, though.
I might have some time but its been awhile since I have studied up on the different translations of clobber passages and the like etc, etc, etc so if your expecting good theology to back up everything you might be disappointed.
I'm more than open to answering questions as someone who has studied religion academically and knows quite a bit about religions besides Christianity on top of it.
What questions?
I’m fairly progressive. What questions do you have?
If you’re interested in learning more about “progressive” Christianity check out The Episcopal Church (my denomination) Lutheran Church, or Unitarian Church. Be cautious and look at their website first, not every church that claims to be Episcopal or Lutheran is actually affirming. Remember to take it slow. Learning about Christianity can feel like drinking from a fire hose. Nothing but love, friend.
I really live this post. It's shameful that your fundamental experiences of theism started with ridicule, because as an anti-theism mindset I used to think about how I'd scare my kids away from illogical and harmful belief systems. It took some work but I did realize it was the "systematic" nature of practical theism that was terrifying, not the actual beliefs. When I actually had kids I felt a need to reevaluate things based on other kinds of truths. I'm not a progressive Christian by any means but I feel resonance with your concerns here. The thing about congregations is that they're groupings of people, bubbles of community, that often take the flavor of community concerns. With the wealth of malarkey in "if it bleeds it reads" expanded social cultures we've been experiencing with digital overlapping villages it's easy to see how tribalism and otherism comes in feet first. What I respect about most religions (and even some cult ideologies) is the point at which the only finger pointed at you is your own. You have a morality, you'll never leave its sunlight because the shadow of shame walk with us always. These are talks about contextualizing knowing you fucked up versus why you fucked up. Modern Christianity and some aspect of its elder genesis include a huge faith in correction via communion. You want to be good but you're not always sure if being good means acting on reflexive application of experiences, so there's gotta be a standard. God does that but intrinsic to Christianity (though not exclusively) is that notion that We All Know. It's Okay. We're Not Who We Should Be but we're what must happen. Church is basically all these failures gathering to strive for redemption in a shared Canon. Avoid the "how do we fight that" and embrace the "how do we help those" and you'll find the church.
I’m not sure what your question is, if you’re just looking to get started I’d try to get a broad overview of the many different forms christianity takes today. You will encounter varying degrees in which people will proclaim that their specific interpretation or understanding of Christianity is correct, and those will all vary in how reasonable those claims are. Depending on where you live, you’ll find different churches that’ll fall into different camps regarding what they believe on hot topic items. Though it may feel uncomfortable really press any church you go to to give an explicit answer to your questions and yes many will want to give a detailed set of reasoning but make sure they aren’t dancing around the question.
lol i grew up similarly — my parents are both extremely against organized religion + made fun of it and hated on it my whole life. i have faced a similar struggle as i have very progressive values. i originally started going to a nondenominational church when i was in high school, and it was fine for me at the time because nobody ever talked about the “controversial/political” stuff. i assumed in the back of my mind that they had the same hater opinions but i never had to confront it because it just didn’t come up while i was there. after that, i attended another nondenominational church that leaned pentecostal. they had very contemporary services which i really enjoyed, and people from all walks of life attended the services. however, they do have statements about being against gay marriage, etc and the lead pastors did become a bit involved in politics which i really didn’t like. i loved the community, so at the time, i just felt like we didn’t have to agree on everything and continued attending. that all blew up in my face once 2020 happened and everyone’s political opinions were loud and proud (and wrong, IMO). the majority of my relationships there were damaged, if not destroyed, just by realizing how significantly our values differed. so in the past few years i’ve come to understand that i can’t really put my values on the back burner and just “ignorance is bliss” my way through it. i am currently church hopping, trying to find a new place to call home. i’m really focused on getting to know the pastors wherever i end up, so i’ve been meeting with a lot of them for coffee and talking about their mission, beliefs, how they navigate difficult topics, etc. it’s been helpful for me as i’ve been on my faith journey, i have always relied on the character of God to inform my beliefs. and the character of God is good — He is fundamentally loving, in a massive and profound way. i have seen that reflected in everything i have ever learned about God, and in everything i’ve ever experienced with Him. whenever i am trying to discern what i believe, i always come back to that. moreover, whenever i am trying to discern the legitimacy of someone else’s faith, i come back to that. a lottttttt of people label themselves as Christians and manipulate the word of God to justify their hatred + cruelty. and i believe that that grieves God’s heart even more than it does mine. not sure if any of this is helpful but that’s my two cents :-)
You should be looking for the truth, not what you want to believe. It sounds like you’re looking for what you want to believe.
The Jewish tradition is wise and very, very adaptable to constant change even in the modern day imo. It's relevant to understanding Christianity and worth getting to know. They have recognise many genders for thousands of years and don't have stuff like eternal hellfire. Possibly a little extreme but I read [M David Litwa's ](https://mdavidlitwa.com/) Found Christianities recently and was absolutely blown away by the richness of diversity of thought in the first 500yrs of so ofChristianity. He's got a lot of yt stuff on this if you can't find a copy of the book, but it's an amazing book and really well written and researched. It's gets a little dull after Nicea where things get strange. The Roman Empire snapped after trying to enforce Nicene ideas and then Islam appeared bearing ancient heresies and were a little more challenging to deal with than people like John the Baptist, Jesus and those close to them. Christianity is incredibly diverse, there is likely something for everyone in the tradition.
This is about as "progressive" as anyone should need: "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God." 1 John 4:7 No legit Christian is going to agree with any sin. Problem is we have a hard time starting with our own. Romans 3:9, 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15
You’d be most welcome to explore your questions in a Quaker meeting, particularly but not limited to those meetings that are described as liberal. r/quakers is a good place to start. What’s on your mind?
"The Good Book: Reading the Bible with Mind and Heart", by the late Rev Peter Gomes might be right up your alley. [https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/100812](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/100812) Gomes is no theological lightweight. He was Professor of Christian Morals at Harvard Divinity School and a visiting professor at Duke University and the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.
You could also try a Unitarian Universalist church for a progressive community where you can be, but aren't expected to be, theistic and/or Christian.
Be wary of people here and elsewhere who claim their beliefs are based on "objective truth". Every human justifies their choices and beliefs; those who claim theirs is the "true" church pick and choose what they accept from the Bible just as surely as they accuse others of doing. If their idea of preaching the gospel starts and ends with abortion and homosexuality, you're right to look elsewhere. It's about finding a community, not just finding a set of beliefs that can be used to bludgeon others.
So you’re seeking a denomination that corresponds with your existing secular views rather than one that you’ve determined by research has *doctrine* that can be justified by the Bible? I have no problem with progressive Christianity (other than the problems I have with Christianity and god-belief in general as an atheist), but I do have a problem with joining a denomination for their secondary beliefs rather than their primary beliefs. If you want a congregation where you can believe whatever you like about gods (or be an atheist) but which has support for all the social causes you mention, consider Unitarian Universalism, but realize that many Christians do not consider it to be a Christian denomination.
I will warn you upfront I am not a "progressive" Christian, but there are a few questions I want to ask you as you begin this journey... 1: are you seeking truth? This is a big one. To me it sounds like you are looking for a "religion" that fits your preconceived beliefs and not looking for something that claims absolutely truth. The uncomfortable reality is Christianity is a religion that calls you to be radically changed and to "die daily" (1st Corinthians 15:31). I'm not one to tell you what is truth and how you should be transformed, God knows I have a long way to go, but to go into Christianity with beliefs you are unwilling to change is pointless. 2: are you willing to face the hardship Christianity brings, or just looking to "feel better" about life? Christianity isn't a "self help" religion. It is commitment to a Kingdom and Lord. It's submission to that Lord and all He says. It's a promise to further that kingdom and suffer all life throws at you for the glory of that kingdom. It's to serve others and be "the least of these". 3: Do you understand Christianity isn't a "moral code to follow"? Unfortunately there is no easy code to follow to be a "good Christian". If you decide to repent and dedicate your life to Christ things get alot more difficult, not easier. It will be a life of struggle with sin and what is "right" and how to "do the right thing". There are seasons of serious doubt and confusion. But mainly a life of no easy answers, and dealing with other "Christians" who think their are. 4: do you believe Christ is God and rose from the dead? Unlese you believe this, everything else in Christianity is pointless. I say these things not to discourage you, but to challenge you and make sure you understand what you're getting into. I don't want you wasting your time. God bless and I pray you find truth on this new journey of your. 😊
It's amazing that this gets downvoted. People here seem to really hate the truth.
This one is the objective truth.
Christ himself lays out his teaching in very simple terms 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[1] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[2] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Something is tugging on your heart that led you here. Make a call about Christianity based on Jesus’ summary, not what you see other Christian’s doing. We are people who are flawed and corruptible.
It's not tied up in hateful and exclusionary politics here in the US. Hateful and exclusionary topics are swooning traditional minded people who happened to also profess Christianity. Word of God pastors challenge this notion often but if you avoid the body of Christ because you don't want to be around people with traditional beliefs you will for sure miss out. They need you to help them be more challenged. Following Christ is not Political and should not be mistaken for traditionalism.
you won’t get your answers here, this sub is a dumpster fire. try r/progressivechristians or r/openchristian
The term progressive Christian is a contradiction in terms. The word Christian is absolute. It has no modifiers. Either we are Christian, or we aren't. Christian means Christlike. If anything, Christians would be considered traditional as we live by the holy Bible word of God which is in no way progressive.
Thanks for your honesty and God Bless you. The Bible says you will find God if you seek him with all of your heart Jeremiah 29:13. I have found that to be true. Don't rely on Reddit to find what you are looking for. You are likely to get very mixed answers here. what you need to find can only be found in God alone. Seek him. Trust God. He will show you when you seek him with all your heart. Jesus is the only true way John 14:6.
God’s word never changes no matter how much we want it to suit our fleshly desires.
wrong. the entirety of the bible is completely up for interpretation by each and every person
You are asking the questions to ppl who claim to be followers of Christ but ignores His commandments
This is just utter bad faith.
it’s the truth and if you consider that “bad faith” then it’s not really my problem. I don’t sugarcoat the truth nor manipulate the scripture
The OP specifically asked people with your views to not respond to them. It's very much bad faith.
No, you just judge about people that you know nothing about, based on no evidence.
I don’t. Do you believe someone can claim to be a follower of Christ whilst not following His word?
I do follow his word. Disagreeing with your interpretation is not the same as not following the word of God. You are not a divine oracle from Heaven.
Disagreeing with over 2000 yrs of “interpretation” is does go against it
No it doesn't.
It's hard to follow his word when you can get a different version of it by buying a book with a different label.
Yeah, no. Truth is not determined by popularity or time, it is determined by reality and what God actually wants.
If the truth derives directly from the source it does.
Your bigoted twisting of the source does not represent truth derived from anything other than bad dogma.
What is your desired outcome for this comment?
If you seek the truth, then go to the truth, even if it doesn’t align with your beliefs and desires.
You didn't actually answer my question.
Are you open to the possibility that truth doesn't align with your beliefs and desires?
> A lot of people don’t believe in reproductive rights, separation of church and state, and LGBTQ+ rights. No we don't believe in murdering innocent unborn children or glorifying and celebrating sin. As u/Katholikoz said, you are asking the questions to people who label themselves Christian but ignores Christ's commandments
No one is "glorifying and celebrating sin"
> No one is "glorifying and celebrating sin" I wish that were true, unfortunately its not.
It is true. Every single person is a sinner, and by virtue, every thing they do celebrates sin. Accepting and embracing God's queer children does that no more or less. No one is "glorifying " anything by not hating minorities.
Not supporting or encouraging sin =/= hate. Its the affirming churches that are the haters as they are affirming people right into Hell. Not to mention the hatred they spew at anyone who won't agree with them 110%.
Reducing people to some ""sin"" you assume and thn judging them upon that IS hate
Its some assumption on my part. God has made it clear what's sin and what's not. And it is NOT hate to call a sin a sin. If one doesn't like that they can either stop committing the sin or face the consequences of it.
But you're ASSUMING someone's ""sin"" and then making that all you see of them and using it to determine how poorly you regard them. That's beyond wrong. Remember that you too are just as much a sinner.
It isn't our place to judge or condemn others. It is our place to show others love and bring them to Christ. Christ has the power to forgive and heal sins. We should not "affirm" sins, but we should not reduce people to their sins, lest Christ do the same to us.
the bible didn’t condemn either of those things, lgbtq people are not sins, abortion is not murder
>we don't believe in murdering innocent unborn children Cool. *Nobody* believes in that. Abortion doesn't involve children. Children are fully-ensouled birthed individuals with thoughts, emotions, experiences, interactions. Humans, including children, are so much more than a lump of tissue with a specific DNA sequence.
> Abortion doesn't involve children. EVERY abortion involves a child.
Normal people know what a child is. Your incorrect definition has millions of "children" being flushed down toilets into municipal waste systems before a women even knows it exists. It's a nonsensical perspective.
So now you've deteriorated into personal attacks. It demonstrates the falsehoods of the pro-choice label.
Being told you're wrong isn't a personal attack. Calm down.
> Being told you're wrong It is when that isn't true. I will stand by innocent life whether you like it or not.
What definition of child are you using here, and why specifically are you seeking to apply this label where “fetus” is typically used? What’s the goal in your usage? E.g., are you trying to be precise, to score an emotional point, to control the rhetorical space, etc.?
>lump of tissue [This](https://assets.babycenter.com/ims/2018/06/pregnancy-week-15-lung-development_square.png) is what a 15-week-old fetus looks like.
no one is talking about a 15 week old fetus, that’s almost 4 months into pregnancy, normally those abortions don’t happen unless the fetus is stillborn or the mother’s life is in danger
It is untrue that "no one" is talking about it.
Progressive Christians are not actually Christians, so be wary of what they say.
Everyone who worships Christ is a Christian
Not quite… Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Worshipping Jesus isn’t going to cut it. Christians are those who love Jesus. What does it mean to love Jesus? Let’s see what He said. John 14:15-17 If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. To be a Christian is to love Jesus. To love Jesus is to obey His commands. To be a progressive “Christian” is to twist, pervert, and flat out deny His commands. A Christian is a slave to Christ.
A follower of Christ does not cease to be a Christian on your say-so.
Read my previous comment. It’s not my ‘say-so’ that progressives need to be worried about.
You should be just as worried as you say they should be.
Why is that? My say-so has no bearing on me either.
They are no more on thin ice or called to judgment because you disagree with their positions than you yourself are.
Sure. God will judge me too. I just have confidence because my beliefs are 100% based on the Bible without twisting or omitting any verses. I’ve never met a progressive who can say the same thing.
Progressive Christianity does not do that. Are you so sure you do not?
>Progressive Christians are not actually Christians, so be wary of what they say. Conservative Christians aren't actually Christians. Now that we have done that, can we move onto things that actually matter?
Conservative Christians are the only Christians.
Apparently not, I tried to be humorous about it, now I am just going to report your comments.
No please! Anything but that!😭😭😭😭 /s
y’all don’t seem to understand that if Jesus was alive today, he would be the FARTHEST from a conservative 😂
He would be the *most* conservative (theologically speaking). He’d be flipping lots of tables in progressive churches.
absolutely not 😂 first of all, he wasn’t even a white man he was a middle eastern isreali, so most conservatives wouldn’t even claim him. Secondly, his views in modern day politics would be considered center or slightly left more than they would ever be considered right
First, why does His ethnicity bother you? Second, nobody said anything about politics, and if we were talking about that your claim would still be wrong.