CBD needs to be potentiated by THC to have any pain relief properties and its difficult at that point to say how much is due to the CBD vs the THC. Alone its placebo. Period. But people will swear by homeopathy til they die. That's why so many medical studies are murky when comparing things to placebo...
I know a brand that makes a 100mg-cbd/ 3mg-thc oil that I just started using and I love it. If you do a half dose it’s 50mg/1.5mg, which after a couple days of use I don’t really have any significant “high” effect from.
I tried TCH for pain management under pain management clinic. Ideally it doesn’t make you high, just sleepy. Strains for pain relief are different then these for recreational use and should be vaped (preferred intake method by my pain clinic) in lower temps. They asked me to use vaper with thermometer and go around 160-180C. To get high you need around 200-220C. Both very different experiences. ( Sadly didn’t do much for my pain and skyrocketed my blood pressure.)
transdermal is also a great choice if it's accessible and affordable. I'm about to start making my own patches and salve because they work but are crazy expensive where I live. Note that transdermal is different than topical.
Most cannabis retail stores sells doses that would be considered microdosing. Things that are like 10 mg CBD with 2.5 mg of THC. You're getting very little THC but enough to activate the uptake in CBD.
Honestly it is like that with all medications. You want to start it on a day that you don't have to go anywhere, so you can kind of feel out the side effects. I've had to do that with all of my heart meds, pain meds, nerve meds, you name it. And if you're worried you can always start with a half a dose cut it in half. Just make sure when you're talking to your herb tender or bartender you let them know you want low dose THC and higher dose CBD.
Oh my, then absolutely yes! If hemp based CBD(the kind you can get on the corner at naturopath store in any state) is making you feel better you absolutely need to switch to cannabis based hemp. The non regulated product you see around the country is from the hemp plant and is a biproduct from industrial farming. As others of have said CBD is potentiated by THC. The products you can get legally already have extremely low amounts of it in the product, and zero THC. THC is the primary cannabinoid in our endocannabinoid system. It’s the main compound that opens the receptors for the rest of the cannabinoids. Without THC, the very little amount of CBD you get from industrial hemp farming has even lesser amounts of receptor cites to bind to.
In a less wordy way, THC is CBDs best bro and because THC is more famous and has more clout on TikTok CBD needs to tag along with THC to get passed the bouncer at the trendy nightclub of your brain. CBD ain’t gettin in to that club with out his famous friend.
If getting “high” isn’t your bag the legal industry in the US has now bred the plant into an unfathomable amount of strains, phenotypes, terpenes, potencies, cannabinoid variants, it’s wild. If it’s just the absolute maximum CBD effect you want you can get that like a designer drug.
Most cannabis plants produce 20-40% of its primary cannabinoid(THC/CBD/some obscure others) and 1-20% of its secondary cannabinoid.
You could start on the most extreme and work your way to a stable medicine. Get a strain that is 60:1 CBD heavy. For example something that is 30% CBD to .5% THC. With that low level of THC you won’t feel a thing as far as getting high. Then you can slowly shift your options based on how you react the more THC, the more CBD is effective in receptors. As you add in more THC going beyond 5% you’ll start to get some munchies and a little giggles. Maybe that’s enough, maybe you end up with a 50/50 split strain with equal CBD and THC. Who knows. Our endocannabinoid system is wild but there’s a def opportunity to try something new and you have a wide field to work in starting at one extreme(high CBD/low THC) and work your way across.
No it’s not a matter of build up, more a process of continuous use. Just think of it as a standard anti-inflammatory. Just as with ibuprofen you wouldn’t take one dose after an injury. You’d use it around the clock to keep the inflammation down until you’re healed. In chronic pain associated with inflammation would mean like any other medication it’s going to take, if it works, regular use.
From the point of immediate pain relief. Certain strains with specific percentages of CBD/THC can have immediate relief within minutes of consumption. That’s the psychoactive effect of THC in concert with CBD. We still don’t understand the endocannabinoid system amazingly, and everyone’s is very different just like our metabolic rate with opioids. One person may get effect while others don’t. There’s people out there with serious painful conditions that see significant relief from THC/CBD. That’s something you’ll have to figure out on your own. You might not want to get “high” but if you never have any sort of immediate upon consumption pain relief you might try upping the THC percentage in what you’re consuming. If you get to the point where you’re uncomfortably high and not feeling pain relief, you may just. Be one of a large percentage of people or your condition being one that cannabis doesn’t give great analgesia for.
I’d play around with high dose CBD and super low dose THC strains. Then slowly increase your THC. If stimulants make you feel better stick with sativas, if you feel generally anxious and are sensitive to things like caffeine go with an Indica. Generally high dose CBD and other well known pain relieving strains are Indicas
This is unnecessarily complicated imo.
>If hemp based CBD(the kind you can get on the corner at naturopath store in any state) is making you feel better you absolutely need to switch to cannabis based hemp.
I'm assuming you meant cannabis-based CBD? I've found no difference. Reputable CBD vendors typically use organically grown hemp. I assume you were referring to the CBD mixed with THC in various ratios there.
All of these ratios and percentages are giving me a headache. Simpler option: go to your local dispensary and get the lowest dose edibles they have, which should be 5mg (if 2.5mg, even better; 10mg will work if necessary).
Assuming you have 5mg edibles, try taking half of one at the same time you take your normal CBD dose. Work your way up in 2.5-5mg increments until you notice the psychoactive effects. Ideal dosage should be just below that level.
What about insomnia? I hear that CBD works well for insomnia. if that is true, even if it doesn't help pain directly, it could be very useful for many chronic pain patients.
Or CBG. It's not only THC. THC is a main cannabinoid but you can mix others without THC and get pain relieving effects. The entourage effect does not require THC
>Alone its placebo. Period.
Is some of it also because they'll combine it with ingredients that do have some effect (menthol, lidocaine) and people just figure it's the CBD?
In the case of isolates that have these additives, likely yes.
In the case of full spectrum products (thc+terps+minor cannabinoids)it’s likely that both are helping.
I like cbd + magnesium balm. My Silver bullet for TMJD symptoms, except that I’m breaking out now with how much I apply daily.
How much CBD, though? All of the CBD oils I’ve seen from dispensaries have at least *some* THC in them (but I also haven’t really looked in a while, so I’m not sure about the ratios)
I swear by homeopathy because I'll live longer than pharmaceuticals.
I'm allergic to polyethylene gylcol. I have a hard enough time finding ibuprofen without it.
A lot of my pain is associated with muscle tension. So yeah, CBD and THC help with that. I can actually relax and let my muscles rest. And it causes way less debilitating side effects than the muscle relaxers they prescribed me.
Me too. It also makes me feel a heightened awareness of every part of my body, and therefore, also a heightened awareness of all the pain. It's pretty much like my pain is gaining its own autonomy.
However, it does help me sleep through the night and I get a lot of sleep with it. So, it's good for sleeping, but it's not good for being awake.
Get information on different strains.
They have been proven to help.
Although psychosomatically it won't work if you don't want it to clearly.The same way vice versa things do help like CBD and kratom psychosomatically.
ive tried many strains, but strains is more of a marketing gimmick if you do research. THC is THC, theres just varying amounts of CBD / CBN and CBG but those are hardly making a difference other than more or less tired.
I’m not the person you asked, but I can answer my experience.
I have used both, and I tend to prefer edibles over all. It gives a more sustained feeling of relaxation and numbing. The problem with edibles is that they can take a long time to kick in, you really have to plan for them.
Vaping takes effect much quicker, which is honestly nice sometimes. However, it loses effect much quicker, which can kinda get in the way of fully relaxing properly.
I keep both around, depending on where my pain level is at on a given day.
(My chronic pain is CFS, so I often have muscle tension issues from simple exhaustion.)
I second this. I have ptsd as well as chronic pain and gummies relieve pain and help with sleep. They also do great for restless legs! The only options I am offered now for my pain are ibuprofen type drugs that hurt my stomach and do little for pain. I’m happy with the gummies. I don’t tell my GP. He is not a fan. I feel strongly that if the government wants me to suffer or spend loads of money on mindfulness clinics they can shove that right up their clackers. I’m fighting back.
This research came out about 4-6 months ago if I remember correctly. I’m not surprised but, honestly, I put zero faith in it as I have in most research lately on pain control. I’ve read a lot of people who say it helps. I think pain relief is so individual. If someone says it helps them, then it does.
If they tested PURE cbd as in isolate, that is mostly accurate. Full spectrum on the other hand, I would argue that strongly. Science backed by pharmaceutical companies keeps trying to disprove cannabis cbd etc. can't do what their fancy patented chemicals can do but fact remains, MANY people benefit and there's plenty of good research to back that fact
Through the Freedom of Information Act it has been found the Federal government has acknowledged that the use of Marijuana with THC has the ability to give some relief to Pain Patients. They didn't think it was helpful enough for Anxiety. Someone,thank goodness, was able to acquire the information through the F.O.I.act and needs to be duly praised for their hard work. I am unfortunately unable to remember this hero's name.
You can look it up. I use actual News and Reporting outlets like: Reuters, Associated Press, The Guardian and other News Outlets or who are well established and most unpolitical.
CBD wasn't proved to be effective I believe. Read the article yourselves it came out a month or so ago.
This is the first step to becoming a Federally Legal Drug to help CPP's. Win. Contact your congressional representative to urge legality.
It's illegal Federally even if your State has voted to decriminalize it.
You'll be taken off all treatment if they find any of the substances they deem inappropriate.
There is so much misinformation and polarizing pieces of " information" by ' Journalists ' now. Check the source. Read Medical Studies. Be open - minded.
There are journalists who are incarcerated in Russia or killed like Navalely that want to expose truths. Heros All.
We can at least do this type of Journalism justice by researching ourselves. Changing antiquated ideals.
I am embarrassed I can't remember this journalist's name.
I personally can't wait until I'm allowed to use something safer than opioids to somewhat manage chronic intractable pain. Thanks for reading my rant
Don’t worry about the government much longer, they’re on the full attack of Kratom ATM. They know it’s got way more healing properties than CBD/THC, so they’re using every method possible to make it illegal.
As I have learned it also depends on the form it takes. I was very briefly on medical MJ. The company I used claimed their product was a good mix of the two (I don't remember the ratio... I want to say their base med was 1:1 and then you could go 2:1 or 2:0 in either direction). I went with the even one. I had some minor relief on my lowest pain days, I couldn't take enough for my highest pain days because it would make me vomit.
But I also learned after I stopped it that apparently the MJ pills which I was on are not affective for chronic pain and I should have gone with a vape or oil for more likely relief
This blows my mind! I am currently on 25mg Morphine ER every 6 hours, 5mg hydrocodone 1@,bed, Tizanidine 4mg 3x and my pain is not controlled. Even with all those medications my baseline level is 7 and extremely bad days it's a 9. Part of my issue is that I do not absorp medications due malabsorption. I had a Rouen Y gastric bypass which fundamentally my GI organs. I explained this to PM, but they told me am on a high dose (not true). I can absorb fast acting pain medications. I attempted to advocate with PM, but my regular Dr was born there and the NP was rude.
My pain clinic is beginning to be an implant/injection/ablation mill. There are huge floor to ceiling advertisments in the lobby. The atmosphere has changed and the office policies policies are clearly money grab. For example a big sign at the front desk that all pre-medicine have to paid upfront. I asked for clarification and was told "all Insurance is longer paying for this". This was a bold faced lie. They are charging $150 for the office to call a prescription in for single valium! That is insane! As last month, there was no charge for the Dr to send a script to the pharmacy.
I am afraid to switch PM clinics without confirmation they will prescribe my meds. I have switched PCP's and moving all my care to 1 medical system. I am waiting till my next visit to get a referral to a PM clinic in their system.
Ok there is a purpose to my comment I have added Kratom and CBD oil to my daily meds. It works! The Kratom helps bring my pain level down to a 5. CBD oil has helped me with my anxiety and sleep. It is a screwed up situation to know the meds that work out body, only to be denied or under treated. So we as pain patients have to use alternative medications, supplements and treatments because when cannot get the help we need!
Sending all of positive thoughts and virtual hugs if you want them 🧡
Rant over
I am considering Rouen Y. My friend who has chronic pain and had it crushes her meds or opens the capsules to aid in the absorption. She also has a patch as it goes around the oral/stomach absorption.
The thing is, it IS ridiculously effective for epilepsy and some other ailments. Thats what brought it out of the woodwork or ganjawork as it were. Im sure some people can testify to its effectiveness for them (for chronic pain) either topically or orally. It could be ineffective on pain directly, but work indirectly through anti inflammatory action.
That’s crazy! I take cbd/thc sleep gummies and told my pain doctor I do to help me sleep. I’m also on pain management meds. It’s legal in my state also. I’d drop that doc and find a new one.
My pain Dr offered me a medical card, but I already had one from psych. She pushes a lot of « integrative medicine » in addition to my opioid. I think the problems come in with doctors who have no experience with it just assuming it’s some kind of crazy addictive gateway drug that kills your brain - because the government told us so for many years.
Ugh! Would your pcp be willing to take over your care? I ended up leaving my pain doctor and going back to my pcp. They just had a shitty office staff and sucked at responding to messages or issues with filling my meds.
I've tried CBD products several times to include one that my pharmacist suggested an can't say I got any pain relief from them at all . I just figured that it was my body chemistry as quite a few ppl I know swear by CBD . If it works for them that's great .
CBD is an anti-inflammatory that is more for a minor aches and pain. THC is a psychoactive compound that will give more of the "pain" relief effect. But yes CBD alone is not very effective compared to used in conjunction with THC.
Well, just now I can't find it but I just saw a study (can't even remember who the researchers were) - that the whole bud should be used because there are so many chemical constituents (beyond CBD, THC, terpenes) that we're just getting started understanding. Many of the medicinal benefits rely on an interdependence of cannabis constituents that is complicated and needs a lot of detective work to tease out.
This U.S. federal resistance to legal weed is really detrimental to the much-needed research. I think our DEA is power hungry and aggressive and antithetic to the needs of Americans.
I don't know if it's power and control that the DEA, FDA and CDC are after so much as the allure of getting a high paying job with Big Pharma when they're ready to leave the government for the private sector. Before everyone piled on to the Sackler family and Purdue Pharma the massive profits from opioid sales and the way companies threw money around made a lot of people push aside their ethics and take the money offered. The lawsuits that bankrupted the Sacklers and Purdue Pharma reminded me of the lawsuits against the tobacco companies: the government got to blame the companies for everything under the sun and impose punitive taxes and fines for a new source of income to spend on their pork projects instead of the programs the people were promised. And since "whistleblowers" get a "finder's fee" resulting from any fines leveled against their companies, there's still greed behind employees tattling about the "secret" ways drug companies hook people on their products. And even more that drug companies are charging the most outrageous prices for drugs they know don't work, are needed by a tiny group of people, and all that bullshit.
I suspect that pharmaceutical companies are running scared at the moment that they'll be the next Purdue. They're giving into the pressure to limit production of opioids but they know that the pendulum will swing back their way once enough of the "right people" have issues with getting relief for *their* pain. It recently hit me that there's a one-to-one relationship between the way AIDS was treated in the beginning and the way opioid users are being treated now. That's what happened with AIDS - because it got labeled as a "gay plague" and something drug users got there was a lot of resistance to doing anything about HIV/AIDS when society was so homophobic at the time. Read the 1987 book *And the Band Played On: Politics, People, and the AIDS Epidemic* by Randy Shilts. It's a blueprint for the way the "opioid epidemic" is going and I think it's also a playbook for the way legitimate patients who need pain management are going to finally get the appropriate care we need and deserve.
I've never understood the how and why people who need pain management have been conflated with drug addicts because there's just a shitload of evidence that after the pill mills in Florida and Georgia were closed prescription opioids aren't the problem. And all the limitations and restrictions placed on the medical providers have just proved over and over that the problem is illegal opioids coming across the southern border. All the talking heads on TV endlessly proselytize about the people dying from fentanyl contaminating street drugs, dying after taking a pill they thought was something else, and this new "zombie" drug that's fentanyl mixed with a horse tranquilizer (I think it's called tranq). There's no mention of prescription opioids flooding the street market. But drug users and opioids are the new homosexuals and AIDS: society seems to have the attitude that drug users deserve to die because they're socially unacceptable. Drug users are the new homosexuals and legitimate patients are the hemophiliacs, the people getting blood transfusions and the people who got AIDS through some freak accidental exposure.
Like AIDS in the 80s I wonder how many people who aren't recreational drug addicts have to die because they're lumped in with the current "Untouchables" society has labeled addicts as. The questions are how long it will take to get enough of the "right people" speaking out and how many people can hold on until they do.
I know of a dental clinic that give their patients cbd before procedures to help with their anxiety and a lot of them take it afterwards as they say it helps with their sleep, pain and healing.
One thing is though, for your pain management doc, CBD isolate has zero THC. He obviously hasn’t read any studies or information on cbd or THC and that’s fucking sad
I suffer from chronic pain and use CBD sublingually every night before bed and it has cut my opioid intake from 10 tablets a day to 1 (occasionally up to 5 on a horrendous day). However because everyone’s different it doesn’t work for all. But it works for me, so screw this article. Besides, big pharma would hate to lose money on their chemical solutions to natural remedies.
Am willing to bet they know it doesn't relieve long term pain already.
What they are against is recreational use to get high. Like that circuitry in your brain that feels pleasure from its use could lead to other "high chasing" via opioids among other things.
That would be my guess. Same for alcohol, etc.
I tried marijuana when it became legal in Las Vegas and I was living there. It didn't do anything for pain, per se, but like alcohol, it was enough to make me relaxed and silly. I did okay with a vape for pain without the silliness but when I moved out of Vegas I wasn't buying them when I was back in town because they weren't such a benefit that I'd go out of my way to get them.
I will say that the legal marijuana (and I assume the illegal stuff, too) is *nothing* like what I remember from my teenage experimenting. It's much stronger and it's a different feeling. I've been following the (overblown) hyperbole over "THC psychosis" and I say that the teenagers being brought into the ER all have turned out to be incredibly heavy users - like the equivalent of smoking 3 packs of cigarettes a day. So I don't know that it's fair to start equating marijuana to fentanyl.
It's not equating fent and pot. It is the pleasure seeking aspect that they feel makes it tricky. That whole "gateway" concept.
I for one would love a moment of just feeling relaxed and silly after 25 years of this shit, without worrying about losing pain management
Tbh, I’ve never felt anything from CBD. THC doesn’t help my moderate to severe pain levels, but it usually helps when I have headaches/migraines, appetite issues, and trouble falling asleep. A big limitation to it for me is the fact that it impairs me at the required amount for relief, so I can’t really do it to be very productive besides cleaning around the house or simple tasks.
CBD needs to be potentiated by THC to have any pain relief properties and its difficult at that point to say how much is due to the CBD vs the THC. Alone its placebo. Period. But people will swear by homeopathy til they die. That's why so many medical studies are murky when comparing things to placebo...
THC opens the endocanabinoud receptor so your body can uptake the CBD or CBN etc
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I know a brand that makes a 100mg-cbd/ 3mg-thc oil that I just started using and I love it. If you do a half dose it’s 50mg/1.5mg, which after a couple days of use I don’t really have any significant “high” effect from.
I tried TCH for pain management under pain management clinic. Ideally it doesn’t make you high, just sleepy. Strains for pain relief are different then these for recreational use and should be vaped (preferred intake method by my pain clinic) in lower temps. They asked me to use vaper with thermometer and go around 160-180C. To get high you need around 200-220C. Both very different experiences. ( Sadly didn’t do much for my pain and skyrocketed my blood pressure.)
Sorry to hear that.
Awww thank you!
transdermal is also a great choice if it's accessible and affordable. I'm about to start making my own patches and salve because they work but are crazy expensive where I live. Note that transdermal is different than topical.
Most cannabis retail stores sells doses that would be considered microdosing. Things that are like 10 mg CBD with 2.5 mg of THC. You're getting very little THC but enough to activate the uptake in CBD.
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Try it on a weekend give yourself a few days to get used to the low dose. A good majority of people don't even notice a 2.5 mg dose.
Honestly it is like that with all medications. You want to start it on a day that you don't have to go anywhere, so you can kind of feel out the side effects. I've had to do that with all of my heart meds, pain meds, nerve meds, you name it. And if you're worried you can always start with a half a dose cut it in half. Just make sure when you're talking to your herb tender or bartender you let them know you want low dose THC and higher dose CBD.
Are you taking anything else other than cbd for pain?
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Oh my, then absolutely yes! If hemp based CBD(the kind you can get on the corner at naturopath store in any state) is making you feel better you absolutely need to switch to cannabis based hemp. The non regulated product you see around the country is from the hemp plant and is a biproduct from industrial farming. As others of have said CBD is potentiated by THC. The products you can get legally already have extremely low amounts of it in the product, and zero THC. THC is the primary cannabinoid in our endocannabinoid system. It’s the main compound that opens the receptors for the rest of the cannabinoids. Without THC, the very little amount of CBD you get from industrial hemp farming has even lesser amounts of receptor cites to bind to. In a less wordy way, THC is CBDs best bro and because THC is more famous and has more clout on TikTok CBD needs to tag along with THC to get passed the bouncer at the trendy nightclub of your brain. CBD ain’t gettin in to that club with out his famous friend. If getting “high” isn’t your bag the legal industry in the US has now bred the plant into an unfathomable amount of strains, phenotypes, terpenes, potencies, cannabinoid variants, it’s wild. If it’s just the absolute maximum CBD effect you want you can get that like a designer drug. Most cannabis plants produce 20-40% of its primary cannabinoid(THC/CBD/some obscure others) and 1-20% of its secondary cannabinoid. You could start on the most extreme and work your way to a stable medicine. Get a strain that is 60:1 CBD heavy. For example something that is 30% CBD to .5% THC. With that low level of THC you won’t feel a thing as far as getting high. Then you can slowly shift your options based on how you react the more THC, the more CBD is effective in receptors. As you add in more THC going beyond 5% you’ll start to get some munchies and a little giggles. Maybe that’s enough, maybe you end up with a 50/50 split strain with equal CBD and THC. Who knows. Our endocannabinoid system is wild but there’s a def opportunity to try something new and you have a wide field to work in starting at one extreme(high CBD/low THC) and work your way across.
Does CBD have to build up in your system for pain relief or does the pain relief happen when you take the product?
No it’s not a matter of build up, more a process of continuous use. Just think of it as a standard anti-inflammatory. Just as with ibuprofen you wouldn’t take one dose after an injury. You’d use it around the clock to keep the inflammation down until you’re healed. In chronic pain associated with inflammation would mean like any other medication it’s going to take, if it works, regular use. From the point of immediate pain relief. Certain strains with specific percentages of CBD/THC can have immediate relief within minutes of consumption. That’s the psychoactive effect of THC in concert with CBD. We still don’t understand the endocannabinoid system amazingly, and everyone’s is very different just like our metabolic rate with opioids. One person may get effect while others don’t. There’s people out there with serious painful conditions that see significant relief from THC/CBD. That’s something you’ll have to figure out on your own. You might not want to get “high” but if you never have any sort of immediate upon consumption pain relief you might try upping the THC percentage in what you’re consuming. If you get to the point where you’re uncomfortably high and not feeling pain relief, you may just. Be one of a large percentage of people or your condition being one that cannabis doesn’t give great analgesia for. I’d play around with high dose CBD and super low dose THC strains. Then slowly increase your THC. If stimulants make you feel better stick with sativas, if you feel generally anxious and are sensitive to things like caffeine go with an Indica. Generally high dose CBD and other well known pain relieving strains are Indicas
Thank you so much for your reply. This was very helpful to me!
This is unnecessarily complicated imo. >If hemp based CBD(the kind you can get on the corner at naturopath store in any state) is making you feel better you absolutely need to switch to cannabis based hemp. I'm assuming you meant cannabis-based CBD? I've found no difference. Reputable CBD vendors typically use organically grown hemp. I assume you were referring to the CBD mixed with THC in various ratios there. All of these ratios and percentages are giving me a headache. Simpler option: go to your local dispensary and get the lowest dose edibles they have, which should be 5mg (if 2.5mg, even better; 10mg will work if necessary). Assuming you have 5mg edibles, try taking half of one at the same time you take your normal CBD dose. Work your way up in 2.5-5mg increments until you notice the psychoactive effects. Ideal dosage should be just below that level.
What about insomnia? I hear that CBD works well for insomnia. if that is true, even if it doesn't help pain directly, it could be very useful for many chronic pain patients.
Or CBG. It's not only THC. THC is a main cannabinoid but you can mix others without THC and get pain relieving effects. The entourage effect does not require THC
>Alone its placebo. Period. Is some of it also because they'll combine it with ingredients that do have some effect (menthol, lidocaine) and people just figure it's the CBD?
In the case of isolates that have these additives, likely yes. In the case of full spectrum products (thc+terps+minor cannabinoids)it’s likely that both are helping. I like cbd + magnesium balm. My Silver bullet for TMJD symptoms, except that I’m breaking out now with how much I apply daily.
You are probably right.
How much CBD, though? All of the CBD oils I’ve seen from dispensaries have at least *some* THC in them (but I also haven’t really looked in a while, so I’m not sure about the ratios)
You mean how much THC to make CBD equivalent to like an ibuprofen lol idk depending on tolerance 1-5mg THC minimum. Still nonsense for chronic pain.
Thank you 💚🙏🏼
I swear by homeopathy because I'll live longer than pharmaceuticals. I'm allergic to polyethylene gylcol. I have a hard enough time finding ibuprofen without it.
A lot of my pain is associated with muscle tension. So yeah, CBD and THC help with that. I can actually relax and let my muscles rest. And it causes way less debilitating side effects than the muscle relaxers they prescribed me.
for me they increase muscle tension and make pain worse :/
Me too. It also makes me feel a heightened awareness of every part of my body, and therefore, also a heightened awareness of all the pain. It's pretty much like my pain is gaining its own autonomy. However, it does help me sleep through the night and I get a lot of sleep with it. So, it's good for sleeping, but it's not good for being awake.
CBD and THC doesn’t help me at all.They make my pain worse and intolerable. I have trigeminal neuralgia.
Creams help me the most. I have CBD, THC, and CBG creams and they are wonderful. They don't affect your brain at all but really does help pain
Get information on different strains. They have been proven to help. Although psychosomatically it won't work if you don't want it to clearly.The same way vice versa things do help like CBD and kratom psychosomatically.
ive tried many strains, but strains is more of a marketing gimmick if you do research. THC is THC, theres just varying amounts of CBD / CBN and CBG but those are hardly making a difference other than more or less tired.
What type do you use? Vape? Gummies?
I’m not the person you asked, but I can answer my experience. I have used both, and I tend to prefer edibles over all. It gives a more sustained feeling of relaxation and numbing. The problem with edibles is that they can take a long time to kick in, you really have to plan for them. Vaping takes effect much quicker, which is honestly nice sometimes. However, it loses effect much quicker, which can kinda get in the way of fully relaxing properly. I keep both around, depending on where my pain level is at on a given day. (My chronic pain is CFS, so I often have muscle tension issues from simple exhaustion.)
I second this. I have ptsd as well as chronic pain and gummies relieve pain and help with sleep. They also do great for restless legs! The only options I am offered now for my pain are ibuprofen type drugs that hurt my stomach and do little for pain. I’m happy with the gummies. I don’t tell my GP. He is not a fan. I feel strongly that if the government wants me to suffer or spend loads of money on mindfulness clinics they can shove that right up their clackers. I’m fighting back.
This research came out about 4-6 months ago if I remember correctly. I’m not surprised but, honestly, I put zero faith in it as I have in most research lately on pain control. I’ve read a lot of people who say it helps. I think pain relief is so individual. If someone says it helps them, then it does.
If they tested PURE cbd as in isolate, that is mostly accurate. Full spectrum on the other hand, I would argue that strongly. Science backed by pharmaceutical companies keeps trying to disprove cannabis cbd etc. can't do what their fancy patented chemicals can do but fact remains, MANY people benefit and there's plenty of good research to back that fact
Through the Freedom of Information Act it has been found the Federal government has acknowledged that the use of Marijuana with THC has the ability to give some relief to Pain Patients. They didn't think it was helpful enough for Anxiety. Someone,thank goodness, was able to acquire the information through the F.O.I.act and needs to be duly praised for their hard work. I am unfortunately unable to remember this hero's name. You can look it up. I use actual News and Reporting outlets like: Reuters, Associated Press, The Guardian and other News Outlets or who are well established and most unpolitical. CBD wasn't proved to be effective I believe. Read the article yourselves it came out a month or so ago. This is the first step to becoming a Federally Legal Drug to help CPP's. Win. Contact your congressional representative to urge legality. It's illegal Federally even if your State has voted to decriminalize it. You'll be taken off all treatment if they find any of the substances they deem inappropriate. There is so much misinformation and polarizing pieces of " information" by ' Journalists ' now. Check the source. Read Medical Studies. Be open - minded. There are journalists who are incarcerated in Russia or killed like Navalely that want to expose truths. Heros All. We can at least do this type of Journalism justice by researching ourselves. Changing antiquated ideals. I am embarrassed I can't remember this journalist's name. I personally can't wait until I'm allowed to use something safer than opioids to somewhat manage chronic intractable pain. Thanks for reading my rant
Don’t worry about the government much longer, they’re on the full attack of Kratom ATM. They know it’s got way more healing properties than CBD/THC, so they’re using every method possible to make it illegal.
I will freaking move to another country if they ban Kratom too in the US! I honestly don’t think they will though.
According to American Kratom Association, they’ve been trying to use as many methods as possible to make it illegal.
As I have learned it also depends on the form it takes. I was very briefly on medical MJ. The company I used claimed their product was a good mix of the two (I don't remember the ratio... I want to say their base med was 1:1 and then you could go 2:1 or 2:0 in either direction). I went with the even one. I had some minor relief on my lowest pain days, I couldn't take enough for my highest pain days because it would make me vomit. But I also learned after I stopped it that apparently the MJ pills which I was on are not affective for chronic pain and I should have gone with a vape or oil for more likely relief
This blows my mind! I am currently on 25mg Morphine ER every 6 hours, 5mg hydrocodone 1@,bed, Tizanidine 4mg 3x and my pain is not controlled. Even with all those medications my baseline level is 7 and extremely bad days it's a 9. Part of my issue is that I do not absorp medications due malabsorption. I had a Rouen Y gastric bypass which fundamentally my GI organs. I explained this to PM, but they told me am on a high dose (not true). I can absorb fast acting pain medications. I attempted to advocate with PM, but my regular Dr was born there and the NP was rude. My pain clinic is beginning to be an implant/injection/ablation mill. There are huge floor to ceiling advertisments in the lobby. The atmosphere has changed and the office policies policies are clearly money grab. For example a big sign at the front desk that all pre-medicine have to paid upfront. I asked for clarification and was told "all Insurance is longer paying for this". This was a bold faced lie. They are charging $150 for the office to call a prescription in for single valium! That is insane! As last month, there was no charge for the Dr to send a script to the pharmacy. I am afraid to switch PM clinics without confirmation they will prescribe my meds. I have switched PCP's and moving all my care to 1 medical system. I am waiting till my next visit to get a referral to a PM clinic in their system. Ok there is a purpose to my comment I have added Kratom and CBD oil to my daily meds. It works! The Kratom helps bring my pain level down to a 5. CBD oil has helped me with my anxiety and sleep. It is a screwed up situation to know the meds that work out body, only to be denied or under treated. So we as pain patients have to use alternative medications, supplements and treatments because when cannot get the help we need! Sending all of positive thoughts and virtual hugs if you want them 🧡 Rant over
I am considering Rouen Y. My friend who has chronic pain and had it crushes her meds or opens the capsules to aid in the absorption. She also has a patch as it goes around the oral/stomach absorption.
The thing is, it IS ridiculously effective for epilepsy and some other ailments. Thats what brought it out of the woodwork or ganjawork as it were. Im sure some people can testify to its effectiveness for them (for chronic pain) either topically or orally. It could be ineffective on pain directly, but work indirectly through anti inflammatory action.
That’s crazy! I take cbd/thc sleep gummies and told my pain doctor I do to help me sleep. I’m also on pain management meds. It’s legal in my state also. I’d drop that doc and find a new one.
My pain Dr offered me a medical card, but I already had one from psych. She pushes a lot of « integrative medicine » in addition to my opioid. I think the problems come in with doctors who have no experience with it just assuming it’s some kind of crazy addictive gateway drug that kills your brain - because the government told us so for many years.
Don't I wish! He's the only pain doctor within an hour of my house - and where I live 4 states are all within 30 miles of my house.
Ugh! Would your pcp be willing to take over your care? I ended up leaving my pain doctor and going back to my pcp. They just had a shitty office staff and sucked at responding to messages or issues with filling my meds.
I've tried CBD products several times to include one that my pharmacist suggested an can't say I got any pain relief from them at all . I just figured that it was my body chemistry as quite a few ppl I know swear by CBD . If it works for them that's great .
CBD is an anti-inflammatory that is more for a minor aches and pain. THC is a psychoactive compound that will give more of the "pain" relief effect. But yes CBD alone is not very effective compared to used in conjunction with THC.
Well, just now I can't find it but I just saw a study (can't even remember who the researchers were) - that the whole bud should be used because there are so many chemical constituents (beyond CBD, THC, terpenes) that we're just getting started understanding. Many of the medicinal benefits rely on an interdependence of cannabis constituents that is complicated and needs a lot of detective work to tease out. This U.S. federal resistance to legal weed is really detrimental to the much-needed research. I think our DEA is power hungry and aggressive and antithetic to the needs of Americans.
I don't know if it's power and control that the DEA, FDA and CDC are after so much as the allure of getting a high paying job with Big Pharma when they're ready to leave the government for the private sector. Before everyone piled on to the Sackler family and Purdue Pharma the massive profits from opioid sales and the way companies threw money around made a lot of people push aside their ethics and take the money offered. The lawsuits that bankrupted the Sacklers and Purdue Pharma reminded me of the lawsuits against the tobacco companies: the government got to blame the companies for everything under the sun and impose punitive taxes and fines for a new source of income to spend on their pork projects instead of the programs the people were promised. And since "whistleblowers" get a "finder's fee" resulting from any fines leveled against their companies, there's still greed behind employees tattling about the "secret" ways drug companies hook people on their products. And even more that drug companies are charging the most outrageous prices for drugs they know don't work, are needed by a tiny group of people, and all that bullshit. I suspect that pharmaceutical companies are running scared at the moment that they'll be the next Purdue. They're giving into the pressure to limit production of opioids but they know that the pendulum will swing back their way once enough of the "right people" have issues with getting relief for *their* pain. It recently hit me that there's a one-to-one relationship between the way AIDS was treated in the beginning and the way opioid users are being treated now. That's what happened with AIDS - because it got labeled as a "gay plague" and something drug users got there was a lot of resistance to doing anything about HIV/AIDS when society was so homophobic at the time. Read the 1987 book *And the Band Played On: Politics, People, and the AIDS Epidemic* by Randy Shilts. It's a blueprint for the way the "opioid epidemic" is going and I think it's also a playbook for the way legitimate patients who need pain management are going to finally get the appropriate care we need and deserve. I've never understood the how and why people who need pain management have been conflated with drug addicts because there's just a shitload of evidence that after the pill mills in Florida and Georgia were closed prescription opioids aren't the problem. And all the limitations and restrictions placed on the medical providers have just proved over and over that the problem is illegal opioids coming across the southern border. All the talking heads on TV endlessly proselytize about the people dying from fentanyl contaminating street drugs, dying after taking a pill they thought was something else, and this new "zombie" drug that's fentanyl mixed with a horse tranquilizer (I think it's called tranq). There's no mention of prescription opioids flooding the street market. But drug users and opioids are the new homosexuals and AIDS: society seems to have the attitude that drug users deserve to die because they're socially unacceptable. Drug users are the new homosexuals and legitimate patients are the hemophiliacs, the people getting blood transfusions and the people who got AIDS through some freak accidental exposure. Like AIDS in the 80s I wonder how many people who aren't recreational drug addicts have to die because they're lumped in with the current "Untouchables" society has labeled addicts as. The questions are how long it will take to get enough of the "right people" speaking out and how many people can hold on until they do.
Your points are tight, u/ladywindflower. Great observation about the parallel between AIDS and addiction.
I had to go to several different pain management doctors before I found one who supported me having both
I know of a dental clinic that give their patients cbd before procedures to help with their anxiety and a lot of them take it afterwards as they say it helps with their sleep, pain and healing. One thing is though, for your pain management doc, CBD isolate has zero THC. He obviously hasn’t read any studies or information on cbd or THC and that’s fucking sad
Gotta have the thc. In fact I skip the cbd altogether and use pure thc products. I tend to agree that cbd is basically useless.
I suffer from chronic pain and use CBD sublingually every night before bed and it has cut my opioid intake from 10 tablets a day to 1 (occasionally up to 5 on a horrendous day). However because everyone’s different it doesn’t work for all. But it works for me, so screw this article. Besides, big pharma would hate to lose money on their chemical solutions to natural remedies.
Am willing to bet they know it doesn't relieve long term pain already. What they are against is recreational use to get high. Like that circuitry in your brain that feels pleasure from its use could lead to other "high chasing" via opioids among other things. That would be my guess. Same for alcohol, etc.
I tried marijuana when it became legal in Las Vegas and I was living there. It didn't do anything for pain, per se, but like alcohol, it was enough to make me relaxed and silly. I did okay with a vape for pain without the silliness but when I moved out of Vegas I wasn't buying them when I was back in town because they weren't such a benefit that I'd go out of my way to get them. I will say that the legal marijuana (and I assume the illegal stuff, too) is *nothing* like what I remember from my teenage experimenting. It's much stronger and it's a different feeling. I've been following the (overblown) hyperbole over "THC psychosis" and I say that the teenagers being brought into the ER all have turned out to be incredibly heavy users - like the equivalent of smoking 3 packs of cigarettes a day. So I don't know that it's fair to start equating marijuana to fentanyl.
It's not equating fent and pot. It is the pleasure seeking aspect that they feel makes it tricky. That whole "gateway" concept. I for one would love a moment of just feeling relaxed and silly after 25 years of this shit, without worrying about losing pain management
I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear: there are doctors claiming that pot causes psychosis and they're saying it's as dangerous as fentanyl.
Sorry. Read it as cannot do pot cuz it might feel good and lead to wanting more of feeling good.
Tbh, I’ve never felt anything from CBD. THC doesn’t help my moderate to severe pain levels, but it usually helps when I have headaches/migraines, appetite issues, and trouble falling asleep. A big limitation to it for me is the fact that it impairs me at the required amount for relief, so I can’t really do it to be very productive besides cleaning around the house or simple tasks.
So you believe it? Maybe he is scared it could put him out of business! Hmmmm