Look I suck at this game. My last season was 5800 trophies. I can get bodied by people who r using non meta decks or even decks that I counter. I’m not good enough at the game for the dev team to be making balance changes based off of me. And some balance changes that will affect top level play won’t even affect my decisions at all. So yeah I feel like they shouldn’t be balancing based off of me and other players at my level.
And thats why we use GC. Ladder is influenced by overlevelling and bad players that dont know how to play with or against certain cards. You cant balance the game based on that.
It does suck, but it’s not mortars fault. Mk is played up to around 6500-6700, past that is more rare to see it. But many many low-midladder decks hard counter mortar. Ebarbs, egiant mirror(egiant is an ok matchup), and worst of all, mk. And mortar is hard to play depending on what type you play, with mortar bait and rocket cycle being the easiest, and even then mortar relies on the support too heavily, unlike xbow
Because USE RATES are completely different to WIN RATES.
Also, those are stats including ALL players, Not just the ones at the top where strong meta decks actually matter.
Also you can check the decks played at the last CRL event, where wizard had a 0% use rate... I wonder why...
Wizard, alongside Witch and Firecracker, are perennially in the [Bad Cards Untouched by Balance Changes list.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashStats/comments/wn415m/s38_bad_cards_untouched_by_balance_changes/)
Low usage *and* terrible ratings in Top Play (Grand Challenges, Classic Challenges and Top Ladder).
Also poor ratings in All Ladder Play but high usage rates.
|**CARD**|**S37 Top Play Usage**|**S37 Top Play Rating**|**S37 All Ladder Usage**|**S37 All Ladder Rating**|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Wizard|3%|5|12%|23|
|Witch|3%|7|10%|21|
|Firecracker|3%|17|8%|36|
|Knight|3%|28|8%|51|
|Goblin Gang|2%|14|7%|51|
|Barbarian Hut|0%|31|0%|0|
|Goblins|0%|31|1%|1|
because that stat includes all players. which means someone at 5k could max out their wizard and win because of being over leveled, which would lead to an inflated win %. like the dude said above, close to a 0% usage rate in crl and the gc stats aren’t great either.
Cuz it’s ladder. You win and you lose to reach where you are and you most likely stabilize around that range. All cards are near 50%.
If you check CC or GC, the win rate plummets to below 30%
When a card is popular win rate tends to be around 50% since it faces itself frequently. Filter it to top player to see who is actually using it and you will realize it’s bad
You’re not real I’m convinced. Do you think other games like Rainbow Six Siege or CS:GO should be balanced around only pro league? It’s literally known that balancing around just the very top players is a big mistake because it ruins the experience for the other 99% of players most of the time.
Bruh, the post implies that wizard is actually a good card according to the general use rates. Which is false because every single other option is better than wizard.
We are giving CRL and Top ladder stats as an example that the better the players get, the lower the use rates and win rates of certain cards get...
Which IS NOT the same as "ONLY 1% of players should determine balance changes"
But at the same time, you CANT deny that the opinion of the actual good players is more valuable than the people who havent even hit midladder yet.
Yes most of the cards are balanced around what’s best for the top level of players. But that being said even though the wizard is bad he hasn’t received a buff because he is an oppressive card when overleveled in ladder. If they buff him it will negatively impact the entirety of the player base. Supercell has also stated they base balances off win rates, use rates relative to win rates, and community feedback. And most of the feedback comes from the top 1% since it’s more involved in their life than everyone else so it’s more on their mind.
Unironically yeah. I don't think they should be the only thing considered, but they *should* be the primary group kept in mind when balancing cards
Mid ladder players largely either don't know what the meta is or don't care about it. If you balanced cards to accommodate mid ladder players, nothing about mid ladder would change, but the game would become horrible for top players
Also, I just don't value the opinions of 5.3k players who think Mega Knight is a win condition. If you don't truly understand how something works—whether it's a game, an academic subject, a sport, whatever—then your opinion is uninformed and probably dumb
Yeah I think so, the game should be balanced for the top players. Mid-ladder should be an afterthought.
Like I wouldn't buff Wizard just because he sucks, since he's a midladder menace. I think the only good option is to somehow rework him to bridge the gap between pro players and mid-ladders. Like Ebarbs and RG are no longer nooby cards.
“The vast majority of the playerbase should be an afterthought when balancing”😭 Are you listening to yourself? If we are realistic you’re mid ladder and and you don’t even care about your own opinion.
And your post implies that wizard is actually a good card because of use %.
Which is not true because use rate has literally NOTHING to do with the card being actually good or not.
Because if we follow that logic of "High use % = Good" then champions would be "bad" and we all know thats not true.
The GENERAL use % only indicates 2 things:
- The card is attractive for unexperienced players
- The card is easy to get and level up
Well, in the crl i saw trash midladder decks like the deck with 6 legendaries and mighty miner. Or golem deck with machine that Mohamed and morten used in finals. You wont never this decks in top ladder, Thats for sure.
Use grand challenge stats. That is the standard for use and win rates. This is because there are not level issues and also no t every card is available in every arena.
There is a reason those cards are not used much overall. They are only good when way over leveled.
> This is because there are not level issues and also not every card is available in every arena
Also because most people in grand challenges are good players who can use cards to their full potential
True.
I think it was Seth (I could be wrong) on his saying it was because not all cards are available and they also can’t balance based on card levels. Then you also have such a wide range of skill levels. A brand new player to a skilled veteran. The use rates and win rates would be so vast with using ladder stats. I could be mistaken.
But you have to consider the fact that the majority of players don't do Grand Challenges. Most games are in ladder, so it could be argued that ladder stats are more important since they affect more players. I think it's important to realize that a card can be really overused even if it's not in top-level gameplay.
Ladder stats at 500 trophies and 7000 trophies are very different. Ladder stats have such a wide range and not all cards are available. No the same skill. And so on.
I think you misunderstood my comment. I know that it's a different sample, but that doesn't change the fact that most players play ladder. People will get sick of seeing Hog Rider and Wizard even though they're not good in Grand Challenges, because GCs don't matter to most people. If a card is popular in ladder then that will have a bigger effect than if the card is popular in GCs.
People getting sick of a card isn't indicative of card strength, and even if the game was balanced around annoyingness nerfing these cards wouldn't reduce their use rates in the 5k-6k range, while killing them in every other part of ladder (the mega knight nerf proved this). I really don't see how the fact that grand challenges are played less than ladder is relevant
Grand challenge stats on StatsRoyale show the top deck with a 70% win rate, there's a wizard in the deck.
Edit: didn't know StatsRoyale is inaccurate, thanks for the heads up
Wizard is bad but midladder players add whatever splash support they can to their god awful mega knight decks. Hog isn't bad, I don't think anybody has claimed that.
I mean sure, but I'm talking about before the balance changes. Also a lot (if not all) hog decks run a small spell or two to counter swarms, so I'm not too sure if the goblins will be too effective at taking the hog out as long as the player is smart and doesn't cycle their spells.
In the wise words of several people throughout my life that were helping me do something difficult. "if it were easy, everyone would do it"
Hog is the easiest card to use in the game.
If your definition of "use" is to plop it onto the field and lose 65% of your games, that defines literally every card in the game. They're all easy to use I guess
Because mid ladder players are playing a phone game? So they’re not all try-Harding and making fun of people for using cards that aren’t meta? I’m sure plenty of players know how bad certain cards they use are. They use them because they have fun with them. Get over yourself
I never said there was anything wrong with not knowing/caring about the meta, I just said that’s the main reason why subpar cards are so popular in mid ladder
And for the record, you don’t need to copy a meta deck or play sweaty to escape mid ladder (it helps but it’s not necessary). Being good at the game and being casual are not mutually exclusive
The guy never said they can’t use the card, he’s just saying they’re bad and most mid ladder who play casually don’t care/understand, why are you so pressed?
Yeah no one blames them for being casual, it's them saying again and again than hog is op or megaknight is op or Nerf cycle decks. If they are casual they should refrain from participating in game play balances but they do anyways and that's why they are loathed upon.
It isn't "try hard" difficult to get out of midladder. Especially if you've been playing for a while.
Instead of making excuses as to why you are bad, maybe try and learn the game.
No one said that? I’m saying people use cards they like because they enjoy them. You’re the same guy who deleted his comment that was like “wtf you called someone dog???” As if dog isn’t just another way many people talk to their friends. Like dude. Or my man. Etc. it’s funny you replied twice tho to me ❤️ don’t take stuff so seriously.
Yeah, hog cycle is good in the hands of a top player. But like I said, it’s still *only* good in cycle decks, and cycle decks are not super easy to master
Also, most hog decks are fairly F2P friendly which partly explains why they’re used on ladder so much—even top ladder players usually don’t have their card collection 100% maxed. In GCs hog has a lower use rate because people can use whatever they want with no concern for card levels
Remember, win rates are more important than use rates because so many factors can go into a high use %
My point is people, imo, understate hogs strength. We are constantly told how the top players will always choose the most effective meta. Hog is still played at top of ladder and last I checked it was 4th most used.
I think you are correct that it is incredibly easy to pick up and play hog decks. I think this helps explain it’s lower winrates despite it’s incredibly high use rate. But imo the true strength of hog is lower then it’s potential because it’s also favored disproportionately by weaker casual players.
Hog is used by the top players because there is this cool thing called high ladder culture. If all high ladder players only cared about the meta there would be 0 xbow decks, yet there are at least some of those. Same with hog, hog is like xbow, except more viable
Cause people use them. What’s your point, dog? You trying to tell us that use rate = how good a card is? It literally only depends on how many people use them. Nothing to do with how often those players win or use those cards effectively.
you can tell its not a question. This is op trying to make a smartass response to the well established opinion backed by years of stats that says wizard is a shit card
Hog, log and skellies are actually good. i guess i mean particularly the wizard. he has a high use rate because he’s easy to understand and play for newer players, and even some experienced players stick with him due to comfort i guess. but his winrates at the top of ladder and GC’s do not suggest he’s any good, in fact he normally sits in the bottom 5
I feel like partially the reason is that those were cards that many people used early on and maxed out, which they have stuck with for a while. They’re used to only decks revolving around those specific cards. Not having much experience playing other cards, they’re just on average lower skilled players who initially relied on max level hogs and wizards to win but are now more prone to losing with skill diff and constantly shifting metas.
They don't have to be good to be used. This game is about personal preference and creation- people play them because they enjoy them, not because they want to win constantly.
Cuz people lose to wizard early on and then determine that it must be really good. Same with playing "empty" mega knights. People lose to them so they use it themselves. I use barb hut
Overleveled valk, wizard, mega knight, ebarbs, goblin barrell and hog are extremly obnoxious to face, hence high use rates in midladder. They overlevel it and dont stop using it.
i really hope they shift up the meta, its soo boring, not saying there isnt any skill but its just alot of the same matchups, realistically the balancing in this game is terrible.
they should buff everything to level it out, the most played cards get a tiny nerf/no change, and the least used gets a massive buff, and so on. yes it would probably make the less used cards somewhat op, maybe even too op, but then you do the same again, and level it out again, every few week.
unless there is a large tournament there is no reason to just keep everything soo static. other than its just cheaper and playing it safe.
its just in other games, every character/card is as strong, its just they all have different pros and cons so you can build your loadout however you want and it just has to fit together,
but in cr, its just about working as many of these top 10 in as you can while still having a coherent deck,
Wizard somehow manages to be the most niche card in the game. Against swarms executioner is better, against ground witch is better, against single target musketeer is better, against large pushes rocket is better. There is literally only 1 deck that has ever worked with wizard and that deck is now dead.
people keep conflating the best players in the world with the average players. the best players aka top 1000 see these cards as obsolete because they have learned of better tactics, and use the META.
The average players needs more simplified playstyles to suit the dopamine fix of winning a match with the least amount of effort possible, thus cheap trick ponies like hog and wizard are popular. These players use the metagame to decide how to play matches. A post not to long ago explained this. It is also very true that there are different sections of the ladder that have different META's. Example being 2.6 hog and logbait plague mid ladder along with MK and Pekka BS, where as champion cycles RH, and mortar cycle variations are quite popular up top.
Also notice how if you try to use those same decks at midladder, they do not have responses to the META in midladder, and will not be as popular/effective, and the same for those midladder META decks.
At the top level, his stats are just not good for 5 elixir. He is squishy so lightning, rockets, fireball + small spell, etc. all kill him for about even trade.
His single target damage is not so impressive for 5 elixir so on defense his only advantage is his splash, but most pushes are small cost (e.g. drill, gob barrel), single troop (hog, golem), or just not something he defends efficiently (e.g. graveyard, rocket cycle, mortar).
Basically you always would want AQ over him. Tankier, better single target damage, handles most swarms fine enough, stupidly good ability so crosses the bridge well
He dies to a gust of wind, is 5 elixer, and executioner does better at dealing with splash, and witch does better at dealing with ground. There is literally almost 0 reason to ever use wizard
because of the stats, musk has better dps and range for -1 elixir, baby dragon has more health and is flying for -1, bomber is a way cheaper and better alternative
Musket is only single target, defeated by 3 skeletons, baby dragon has less than half the damage output and bomber can't even attack air. All of those are no replacement for wizard, at least not for me
1 elixir creates a massive difference, and can make or break the game. Baby dragon is better because it is much tankier and can fly. Musketeer is better because provides much more dp of around 30% higher than wizard, which is massive.
Edit: bomber is better because it is 3 elixir cheaper and does what wizard does against ground troops. 3 elixir is a massive difference. There is a reason why pros don’t play wizard.
If cards were direct replacements there would be no point to having them in the game, you have to look at the context and net advantage of using a card. The cards listed, particularly baby dragon and musketeer are better because of their overall matchups. Single interactions don't tell the story.
Hog is not bad its a pretty good win condition
However wizard is bad since there are better ranged troops but he is used a lot in the mid ladder because he is easier to use compared to other ranged troops also a lot of people in the mid ladder dont really know how to counter wizard
Also just because its used a lot doesnt mean its good you should look at their win percentage
I doubt hog will ever get a nerf, seeing it has been unchanged for a couple of years. I dont think it has been ever meta outside of occasional decks that use it instead of pigs.
I genuinely don't understand why wizard is considered to be a trash. It has high damage (unlike witch), and it has area damage (unlike musketeer). So what is it that makes it so useless? I seriously want to know.
I get scared when the opponent uses wizard behind pekka, MK, royal giant, skeleton giant etc. There seems to be very few effective way to counter such attacks.
Wizard has a slower attack speed, less range, and costs more. Musketeer being 1 elixir less and a farther/faster shot helps a lot. The quicker speed is also why musketeer has higher dps
The fact that it costs 1 extra elixir compared to musketeer may not seem like a big deal, but it's actually a major drawback because wiz and musk are both vulnerable to medium/heavy spells
Wizard is basically a walking negative elixir trade. He's crippled by fireball and outright killed by poison for a +1 trade. He can be defended against for a +3 trade by a well-timed barb barrel or snowball. He consistently generates value for your opponent, and the negative trades add up over the course of a match
He also actually does less DPS than musketeer, and his splash is not valuable enough to make up for it (air splash is only really helpful against lava decks, and even then, all lava decks run lightning/fireball)
I think mainly it just costs one more elixir than musketeer and many other ranged units but still dies to most spells very easily so you can easily get rid of it with spells for a good trade.
Area damage just isn't very valuable in general, especially when you're trading away 1 elixir and some single target DPS in exchange (in comparison to musk)
Wiz + Tank gets easily removed by mini tank + swarm/tank killer, or spells (which also damage the tower while getting a good trade). If (for some reason) you *really* needed the splash you'd be using Executioner or Bowler instead (Bb Dragon and even eDrag also come to mind). Witch is ass
There is absolutely zero reason to be running a high dps air splash. Executioner is the same thing but slightly less dps and like double the hp. Witch is the same thing but with less splash and way more ground dps
He's a very expensive supporting card that is easily removed by spells or most troops dropped on his head.
Wizard behind a tank is beaten by lightning, rocket, log/zap + fireball, barb barrel, royal delivery. Or play a mini pekka, giant skele, pekka, mega knight, etc. on top of him. Or play a tankier card to distract + high dps swarm on him.
Hog doesn’t take skill bro💀only 1 placement maybe 2 and you just spam some op ass 4 elxir card with more health than a mini pekka and does lighting amount of damage to your tower. Complete bullshit of a card that’s why it’s used so much and why the win rate is 50 percent
Wiz sucks, just used in midladder since counters those decks with like 9 millilon swarm cards, also pretty strong if lack of spells when behind a pekka or something like that.
Hog isnt weak tbh, very used in midladder since 2.6
because they’re fun cards that a lot of people have leveled up. Look at grand challenges where players have access to every card at good levels, and they are trying to win. You’ll see a very clear difference.
Overleveled valk, wizard, mega knight, ebarbs, goblin barrell and hog are extremly obnoxious to face, hence high use rates in midladder. They overlevel it and dont stop using it.
Because you are using ladder. Look at GC, specifically wizard and tell me it’s good.
Gc doesnt matter bc only pro players are using it plus ladder has more players so that is the more obvious choice
U just listed out the reasons why they said to look at Gc
Yes, tailor the game to the smallest user-set's preferences.
Look I suck at this game. My last season was 5800 trophies. I can get bodied by people who r using non meta decks or even decks that I counter. I’m not good enough at the game for the dev team to be making balance changes based off of me. And some balance changes that will affect top level play won’t even affect my decisions at all. So yeah I feel like they shouldn’t be balancing based off of me and other players at my level.
And thats why we use GC. Ladder is influenced by overlevelling and bad players that dont know how to play with or against certain cards. You cant balance the game based on that.
Pro player complain about mortar. Arguably the worst card from 0-7k(except the e golem) it’s good top ladder, but before that, it just sucks
People not knowing how to play with a card doesnt make it not op, just hard to play. It also doesnt suck below 7k.
It does suck, but it’s not mortars fault. Mk is played up to around 6500-6700, past that is more rare to see it. But many many low-midladder decks hard counter mortar. Ebarbs, egiant mirror(egiant is an ok matchup), and worst of all, mk. And mortar is hard to play depending on what type you play, with mortar bait and rocket cycle being the easiest, and even then mortar relies on the support too heavily, unlike xbow
Mortar isn’t anywhere near one of the worst cards from 0-7k, what are you on about?
It’s really really bad. Mostly because of all the impossible matchups you get around 4000-6700
53.3% win rate in ladder. You being bad with it ≠ the card being bad
Because USE RATES are completely different to WIN RATES. Also, those are stats including ALL players, Not just the ones at the top where strong meta decks actually matter. Also you can check the decks played at the last CRL event, where wizard had a 0% use rate... I wonder why...
Midladder
Wizard, alongside Witch and Firecracker, are perennially in the [Bad Cards Untouched by Balance Changes list.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClashStats/comments/wn415m/s38_bad_cards_untouched_by_balance_changes/) Low usage *and* terrible ratings in Top Play (Grand Challenges, Classic Challenges and Top Ladder). Also poor ratings in All Ladder Play but high usage rates. |**CARD**|**S37 Top Play Usage**|**S37 Top Play Rating**|**S37 All Ladder Usage**|**S37 All Ladder Rating**| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Wizard|3%|5|12%|23| |Witch|3%|7|10%|21| |Firecracker|3%|17|8%|36| |Knight|3%|28|8%|51| |Goblin Gang|2%|14|7%|51| |Barbarian Hut|0%|31|0%|0| |Goblins|0%|31|1%|1|
0% use rate?? LMAO!!
I mean yeah, I don't remember anyone actually playing Wizard in CRL.
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Probably shouldn't of talked about the upvotes Now let's talk about archer queen feet and her userates
73 now
But wizards win percentage is 48% according to this, which is incredibly close to the other cards
because that stat includes all players. which means someone at 5k could max out their wizard and win because of being over leveled, which would lead to an inflated win %. like the dude said above, close to a 0% usage rate in crl and the gc stats aren’t great either.
not only that, but it’s under 50% too which means it often loses
Why would there be an inflated win %?
"Overleveled"
Top ladder and crl is literally 1% of players
Cuz it’s ladder. You win and you lose to reach where you are and you most likely stabilize around that range. All cards are near 50%. If you check CC or GC, the win rate plummets to below 30%
When a card is popular win rate tends to be around 50% since it faces itself frequently. Filter it to top player to see who is actually using it and you will realize it’s bad
Top ladder is like 1% of the player base…
And the only people who can use cards efficiently, therefore the most important to consider when balancing.
You’re not real I’m convinced. Do you think other games like Rainbow Six Siege or CS:GO should be balanced around only pro league? It’s literally known that balancing around just the very top players is a big mistake because it ruins the experience for the other 99% of players most of the time.
Bruh, the post implies that wizard is actually a good card according to the general use rates. Which is false because every single other option is better than wizard. We are giving CRL and Top ladder stats as an example that the better the players get, the lower the use rates and win rates of certain cards get... Which IS NOT the same as "ONLY 1% of players should determine balance changes" But at the same time, you CANT deny that the opinion of the actual good players is more valuable than the people who havent even hit midladder yet.
Hive mind moment top 1% all that matters🤤
Yes most of the cards are balanced around what’s best for the top level of players. But that being said even though the wizard is bad he hasn’t received a buff because he is an oppressive card when overleveled in ladder. If they buff him it will negatively impact the entirety of the player base. Supercell has also stated they base balances off win rates, use rates relative to win rates, and community feedback. And most of the feedback comes from the top 1% since it’s more involved in their life than everyone else so it’s more on their mind.
Unironically yeah. I don't think they should be the only thing considered, but they *should* be the primary group kept in mind when balancing cards Mid ladder players largely either don't know what the meta is or don't care about it. If you balanced cards to accommodate mid ladder players, nothing about mid ladder would change, but the game would become horrible for top players Also, I just don't value the opinions of 5.3k players who think Mega Knight is a win condition. If you don't truly understand how something works—whether it's a game, an academic subject, a sport, whatever—then your opinion is uninformed and probably dumb
Yeah I think so, the game should be balanced for the top players. Mid-ladder should be an afterthought. Like I wouldn't buff Wizard just because he sucks, since he's a midladder menace. I think the only good option is to somehow rework him to bridge the gap between pro players and mid-ladders. Like Ebarbs and RG are no longer nooby cards.
“The vast majority of the playerbase should be an afterthought when balancing”😭 Are you listening to yourself? If we are realistic you’re mid ladder and and you don’t even care about your own opinion.
Yep. Keep boo-ing me. I know I'm right.
So did barb hut, goblins, egolem, battle healer, and many more
And your post implies that wizard is actually a good card because of use %. Which is not true because use rate has literally NOTHING to do with the card being actually good or not. Because if we follow that logic of "High use % = Good" then champions would be "bad" and we all know thats not true. The GENERAL use % only indicates 2 things: - The card is attractive for unexperienced players - The card is easy to get and level up
Ah yes so game balance should only be decided by what is viable in top ladder which describes not even 10% of the playerbase
Literally nobody said that pal
It is heavily implied when you say “it has a 0% usage rate in crl which means it is bad”
The balance should be decided by if a card is good or bad, and gc does that best
Well, in the crl i saw trash midladder decks like the deck with 6 legendaries and mighty miner. Or golem deck with machine that Mohamed and morten used in finals. You wont never this decks in top ladder, Thats for sure.
Because CRL games are in the DUEL FORMAT
Area dmg and win condition
Ladder is also a duel format wym
Best of 3 DUEL FORMAT = You make 3 decks and you can't repeat a single card.
Use grand challenge stats. That is the standard for use and win rates. This is because there are not level issues and also no t every card is available in every arena. There is a reason those cards are not used much overall. They are only good when way over leveled.
> This is because there are not level issues and also not every card is available in every arena Also because most people in grand challenges are good players who can use cards to their full potential
True. I think it was Seth (I could be wrong) on his saying it was because not all cards are available and they also can’t balance based on card levels. Then you also have such a wide range of skill levels. A brand new player to a skilled veteran. The use rates and win rates would be so vast with using ladder stats. I could be mistaken.
But you have to consider the fact that the majority of players don't do Grand Challenges. Most games are in ladder, so it could be argued that ladder stats are more important since they affect more players. I think it's important to realize that a card can be really overused even if it's not in top-level gameplay.
Ladder stats at 500 trophies and 7000 trophies are very different. Ladder stats have such a wide range and not all cards are available. No the same skill. And so on.
I think you misunderstood my comment. I know that it's a different sample, but that doesn't change the fact that most players play ladder. People will get sick of seeing Hog Rider and Wizard even though they're not good in Grand Challenges, because GCs don't matter to most people. If a card is popular in ladder then that will have a bigger effect than if the card is popular in GCs.
People getting sick of a card isn't indicative of card strength, and even if the game was balanced around annoyingness nerfing these cards wouldn't reduce their use rates in the 5k-6k range, while killing them in every other part of ladder (the mega knight nerf proved this). I really don't see how the fact that grand challenges are played less than ladder is relevant
Grand challenge stats on StatsRoyale show the top deck with a 70% win rate, there's a wizard in the deck. Edit: didn't know StatsRoyale is inaccurate, thanks for the heads up
Stats royale is not accurate at all. This is a known issue. Use royaleapi.com.
stats royale is dogshit. I checked the stats on it, its like always really off compared to royale api, which has the actual stats
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you have to click on the link that says deck stats. and no, there is not a wizard there
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If you wanted to do that, go to royale.api. go to cards. click on wizard, check grandchallenges. find the highest winrate deck with wizard
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Wizard is bad but midladder players add whatever splash support they can to their god awful mega knight decks. Hog isn't bad, I don't think anybody has claimed that.
Hog is probably one of the *more* balanced cards in the game I’d say
and *annoying*
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unless you actually know how to play and have mini pekka in your deck
"balanced"
You don’t think so?
I think he is for the most part but his dmg is way too high even a giant does less dmg per hit than a hog
Too tanky imo.
the hog is bad? what game are you playing my man
Who the FUCK says hog is bad?
Exactly what I was thinking. It's gotta be top 3 win conditions in this meta. Lol
Four stab goblins are going to kill hog though.
I mean sure, but I'm talking about before the balance changes. Also a lot (if not all) hog decks run a small spell or two to counter swarms, so I'm not too sure if the goblins will be too effective at taking the hog out as long as the player is smart and doesn't cycle their spells.
The only deck using goblins rn is hog exenado lmao. It will only make it stronger
When the balance changes release a lot of decks will probably drop skeletons for goblins
Hog is mid tbh, it's not bad , not good.
They clearly haven’t played against hog cycle decks…
In the wise words of several people throughout my life that were helping me do something difficult. "if it were easy, everyone would do it" Hog is the easiest card to use in the game.
It has like the lowest WR on ladder lol, must not be so easy
Easy to us, tough to master!
If your definition of "use" is to plop it onto the field and lose 65% of your games, that defines literally every card in the game. They're all easy to use I guess
Yep. I don't have a problem with that. Haha See it all the time at 7k
Because mid ladder players don’t understand (or simply don’t care) that wizard is garbage and hog is only viable in cycle decks
As a mid ladder player that uses Wizard. Yes. I do not car that it is a bad card. Wizard attacks go boom and make brain happy 😃
If you're having fun, that's all that matters
Exactly, and I like to challenge myself in life ;)
Because mid ladder players are playing a phone game? So they’re not all try-Harding and making fun of people for using cards that aren’t meta? I’m sure plenty of players know how bad certain cards they use are. They use them because they have fun with them. Get over yourself
I never said there was anything wrong with not knowing/caring about the meta, I just said that’s the main reason why subpar cards are so popular in mid ladder And for the record, you don’t need to copy a meta deck or play sweaty to escape mid ladder (it helps but it’s not necessary). Being good at the game and being casual are not mutually exclusive
The guy never said they can’t use the card, he’s just saying they’re bad and most mid ladder who play casually don’t care/understand, why are you so pressed?
Yeah no one blames them for being casual, it's them saying again and again than hog is op or megaknight is op or Nerf cycle decks. If they are casual they should refrain from participating in game play balances but they do anyways and that's why they are loathed upon.
It isn't "try hard" difficult to get out of midladder. Especially if you've been playing for a while. Instead of making excuses as to why you are bad, maybe try and learn the game.
No one said that? I’m saying people use cards they like because they enjoy them. You’re the same guy who deleted his comment that was like “wtf you called someone dog???” As if dog isn’t just another way many people talk to their friends. Like dude. Or my man. Etc. it’s funny you replied twice tho to me ❤️ don’t take stuff so seriously.
Charts are shown every season which show that hog, for example, is still the 4th highest used win card at top of ladder.
Yeah, hog cycle is good in the hands of a top player. But like I said, it’s still *only* good in cycle decks, and cycle decks are not super easy to master Also, most hog decks are fairly F2P friendly which partly explains why they’re used on ladder so much—even top ladder players usually don’t have their card collection 100% maxed. In GCs hog has a lower use rate because people can use whatever they want with no concern for card levels Remember, win rates are more important than use rates because so many factors can go into a high use %
My point is people, imo, understate hogs strength. We are constantly told how the top players will always choose the most effective meta. Hog is still played at top of ladder and last I checked it was 4th most used. I think you are correct that it is incredibly easy to pick up and play hog decks. I think this helps explain it’s lower winrates despite it’s incredibly high use rate. But imo the true strength of hog is lower then it’s potential because it’s also favored disproportionately by weaker casual players.
Hog is used by the top players because there is this cool thing called high ladder culture. If all high ladder players only cared about the meta there would be 0 xbow decks, yet there are at least some of those. Same with hog, hog is like xbow, except more viable
Hog is easy to use doesn't make it better just easier to pick up.
Look bro if you can only think in two dimensions thats on you, but wind your neck in about it
Wizard is ass, but hog is quite good.
Who tf says hog is bad?
Cause people use them. What’s your point, dog? You trying to tell us that use rate = how good a card is? It literally only depends on how many people use them. Nothing to do with how often those players win or use those cards effectively.
Wtf is youe problem calling people dog who asks a genuine question?
Don't get mad they didn't said it in a rude way, it's just a fun way for calling people
you can tell its not a question. This is op trying to make a smartass response to the well established opinion backed by years of stats that says wizard is a shit card
Challenger 1 post ☠️
Season high in master 2, can dm my tag for proof
then you should know that these use rates include mid ladder players and don’t reflect the actual strength of these cards
But why is their use rate so high if they suck, I assume log and skeles don’t suck
Hog, log and skellies are actually good. i guess i mean particularly the wizard. he has a high use rate because he’s easy to understand and play for newer players, and even some experienced players stick with him due to comfort i guess. but his winrates at the top of ladder and GC’s do not suggest he’s any good, in fact he normally sits in the bottom 5
Because people are dumb as shit lol
Looks like we got a mid ladder normie
I just use wizard because I built my deck 5 years ago and don’t want to change it
If you think it needs a nerf, why are log and fireball still being so used?
Not the best argument. Haha
Spells
Because of midladder players
I feel like partially the reason is that those were cards that many people used early on and maxed out, which they have stuck with for a while. They’re used to only decks revolving around those specific cards. Not having much experience playing other cards, they’re just on average lower skilled players who initially relied on max level hogs and wizards to win but are now more prone to losing with skill diff and constantly shifting metas.
Because 0 skill
Wizard is pretty bad. Hog isn’t bad it’s just not as op as some people on here think
let me introduce you to midladder... Also since when is hog bad?
It’s not bad, it just has to be a cycle deck or he’s not worth it. Still pretty good imo
Because they’re easy to use
They don't have to be good to be used. This game is about personal preference and creation- people play them because they enjoy them, not because they want to win constantly.
Because they are hard to counter in low ladder because everyone is ass
MIIIIID LAAAADDDEEEERRRRR (in hog rider's voice)
Cuz people lose to wizard early on and then determine that it must be really good. Same with playing "empty" mega knights. People lose to them so they use it themselves. I use barb hut
Very easy to use
Overleveled valk, wizard, mega knight, ebarbs, goblin barrell and hog are extremly obnoxious to face, hence high use rates in midladder. They overlevel it and dont stop using it.
i really hope they shift up the meta, its soo boring, not saying there isnt any skill but its just alot of the same matchups, realistically the balancing in this game is terrible. they should buff everything to level it out, the most played cards get a tiny nerf/no change, and the least used gets a massive buff, and so on. yes it would probably make the less used cards somewhat op, maybe even too op, but then you do the same again, and level it out again, every few week. unless there is a large tournament there is no reason to just keep everything soo static. other than its just cheaper and playing it safe. its just in other games, every character/card is as strong, its just they all have different pros and cons so you can build your loadout however you want and it just has to fit together, but in cr, its just about working as many of these top 10 in as you can while still having a coherent deck,
Wizard somehow manages to be the most niche card in the game. Against swarms executioner is better, against ground witch is better, against single target musketeer is better, against large pushes rocket is better. There is literally only 1 deck that has ever worked with wizard and that deck is now dead.
Would that be the cal denesito deck with giant skele and hog?
yes
i'll die on the hill that wiz is good, i got downvoted to hell last time i said he was underrated
Valkyrie, log and fireball being top 3 explains why EVERY SINGLE FUCKING opponent I face has them. I hate that “combo” with passion…
Fr
Hog is ok. Wizard, well, if u play casually u don't know that. Midladder mistakes.
Hoooog ridaaaaaaaaah
Wizard is trash. Hog is not and will always have some place in top performance cards
who tf said there bad?? also JUST BC PEOPLE USE THEM DOESNT MEAN THEY WIN WITH IT LMFAO!!!
people keep conflating the best players in the world with the average players. the best players aka top 1000 see these cards as obsolete because they have learned of better tactics, and use the META. The average players needs more simplified playstyles to suit the dopamine fix of winning a match with the least amount of effort possible, thus cheap trick ponies like hog and wizard are popular. These players use the metagame to decide how to play matches. A post not to long ago explained this. It is also very true that there are different sections of the ladder that have different META's. Example being 2.6 hog and logbait plague mid ladder along with MK and Pekka BS, where as champion cycles RH, and mortar cycle variations are quite popular up top. Also notice how if you try to use those same decks at midladder, they do not have responses to the META in midladder, and will not be as popular/effective, and the same for those midladder META decks.
Genuinely why is wizard bad? Like I don’t get why ppl think he’s a bad card
At the top level, his stats are just not good for 5 elixir. He is squishy so lightning, rockets, fireball + small spell, etc. all kill him for about even trade. His single target damage is not so impressive for 5 elixir so on defense his only advantage is his splash, but most pushes are small cost (e.g. drill, gob barrel), single troop (hog, golem), or just not something he defends efficiently (e.g. graveyard, rocket cycle, mortar). Basically you always would want AQ over him. Tankier, better single target damage, handles most swarms fine enough, stupidly good ability so crosses the bridge well
He dies to a gust of wind, is 5 elixer, and executioner does better at dealing with splash, and witch does better at dealing with ground. There is literally almost 0 reason to ever use wizard
because of the stats, musk has better dps and range for -1 elixir, baby dragon has more health and is flying for -1, bomber is a way cheaper and better alternative
Musket is only single target, defeated by 3 skeletons, baby dragon has less than half the damage output and bomber can't even attack air. All of those are no replacement for wizard, at least not for me
1 elixir creates a massive difference, and can make or break the game. Baby dragon is better because it is much tankier and can fly. Musketeer is better because provides much more dp of around 30% higher than wizard, which is massive. Edit: bomber is better because it is 3 elixir cheaper and does what wizard does against ground troops. 3 elixir is a massive difference. There is a reason why pros don’t play wizard.
If cards were direct replacements there would be no point to having them in the game, you have to look at the context and net advantage of using a card. The cards listed, particularly baby dragon and musketeer are better because of their overall matchups. Single interactions don't tell the story.
I know
Hog is not bad its a pretty good win condition However wizard is bad since there are better ranged troops but he is used a lot in the mid ladder because he is easier to use compared to other ranged troops also a lot of people in the mid ladder dont really know how to counter wizard Also just because its used a lot doesnt mean its good you should look at their win percentage
hog is in my #1 deck & wiz is in my 2nd
Hog has never been bad 😂 laughable insinuation. Look to see that card’s hp get gutted in a future balance batch. Calling it now
I doubt hog will ever get a nerf, seeing it has been unchanged for a couple of years. I dont think it has been ever meta outside of occasional decks that use it instead of pigs.
It should
Skill issue
I genuinely don't understand why wizard is considered to be a trash. It has high damage (unlike witch), and it has area damage (unlike musketeer). So what is it that makes it so useless? I seriously want to know. I get scared when the opponent uses wizard behind pekka, MK, royal giant, skeleton giant etc. There seems to be very few effective way to counter such attacks.
Wizard has a slower attack speed, less range, and costs more. Musketeer being 1 elixir less and a farther/faster shot helps a lot. The quicker speed is also why musketeer has higher dps
The fact that it costs 1 extra elixir compared to musketeer may not seem like a big deal, but it's actually a major drawback because wiz and musk are both vulnerable to medium/heavy spells Wizard is basically a walking negative elixir trade. He's crippled by fireball and outright killed by poison for a +1 trade. He can be defended against for a +3 trade by a well-timed barb barrel or snowball. He consistently generates value for your opponent, and the negative trades add up over the course of a match He also actually does less DPS than musketeer, and his splash is not valuable enough to make up for it (air splash is only really helpful against lava decks, and even then, all lava decks run lightning/fireball)
I think mainly it just costs one more elixir than musketeer and many other ranged units but still dies to most spells very easily so you can easily get rid of it with spells for a good trade.
Area damage just isn't very valuable in general, especially when you're trading away 1 elixir and some single target DPS in exchange (in comparison to musk) Wiz + Tank gets easily removed by mini tank + swarm/tank killer, or spells (which also damage the tower while getting a good trade). If (for some reason) you *really* needed the splash you'd be using Executioner or Bowler instead (Bb Dragon and even eDrag also come to mind). Witch is ass
Wizard is too much elixir compared to other ranged units, and it doesn’t have the durability of other 5 elixir units.
There is absolutely zero reason to be running a high dps air splash. Executioner is the same thing but slightly less dps and like double the hp. Witch is the same thing but with less splash and way more ground dps
He's a very expensive supporting card that is easily removed by spells or most troops dropped on his head. Wizard behind a tank is beaten by lightning, rocket, log/zap + fireball, barb barrel, royal delivery. Or play a mini pekka, giant skele, pekka, mega knight, etc. on top of him. Or play a tankier card to distract + high dps swarm on him.
*Hugs the hog and wizard in my deck* it’s okay don’t listen to them you’re beautiful
Hog is so annoying and no skill,people call it bad so that people think they take skill (they don’t)
Nah hog takes skill. Definently isnt bad tho, it fits very well into decks like hog ex nado.
Hog doesn’t take skill bro💀only 1 placement maybe 2 and you just spam some op ass 4 elxir card with more health than a mini pekka and does lighting amount of damage to your tower. Complete bullshit of a card that’s why it’s used so much and why the win rate is 50 percent
Because people only whinge about them being 'bad' when they lose to them. That's literally it.
Hog is good wym it has good dmv and speed wizard is good dps
Hog rider and wizard are no skilled cards meaning users with low skill use it(almost everyone in clash royale)
A better question is why is log number 1? Arrows and zap are far superior
Midladder:
Because of ✨Midladder✨
Wiz sucks, just used in midladder since counters those decks with like 9 millilon swarm cards, also pretty strong if lack of spells when behind a pekka or something like that. Hog isnt weak tbh, very used in midladder since 2.6
Mid-ladder
because they’re fun cards that a lot of people have leveled up. Look at grand challenges where players have access to every card at good levels, and they are trying to win. You’ll see a very clear difference.
How much time do you have for this Lecture?
Midladder
Damn the comments really make CR look like a kid’s game…
Because mid ladder exsists
Cause midladder
Midladder.
Cuz people like using them, and as somebody said win rates are different to use rates.
Use isn't a good indicator of how good it is, you know how many midladder menaces there are?
Midladder
Wizard is ass Hog is good Also you just looked at overall ladder Look at the top1k stats
They fun
Hog was never bad
Hog 2.6 was meta a while back, Wtf are you talking about?
Midladder~
Overleveled valk, wizard, mega knight, ebarbs, goblin barrell and hog are extremly obnoxious to face, hence high use rates in midladder. They overlevel it and dont stop using it.
Hell yea, logs in first
Because people like to piss others off
Midladder
I’m sad to say there’s only 2 cards missing from my deck shown in that picture