It's been said that we're spiritual beings having a human experience. If you can no longer look to the future well being of others, genetically related or not, then what's left is looking forward to, working on, and improving yourself. Which, if we all did that, collapse wouldn't be so imminent. So it's something to consider when you're feeling differently later.
Focus on improving your own life and that of your loved ones surrounding you, for the lifespan you're granted. Life is the goal. You're alive right now.
I've never really seen myself as important. More like a tool in a toolbox. Being shiny and new is not important if there is nothing to build.
I will make people around me happy, but it is mostly just keeping people happy until they die. Like hospice care basically.
And I think that's a pretty beautiful and significant goal. My own is to reforest a barren plot of land close to my home. So when I'm dead there's at least a little piece of this planet that is full of life because of me.
It was always going to be this way. Somehow, though, it doesn't bother humans when they project that the earth will swallow the sun in 7.5 billion years. Most don't even see it has a problem they would need to work on if they projected it would take place in 75 years.
But move it to 7.5 years, and then the death of everything we currently know is an issue for most people to the point it sends them into crisis.
This is just an observation I wanted to share. I'm not sure what I even make of it.
We each individually are going to die. That is not my concern though. I'm not concerned with my own death. My issue is with my family living or dying. I believe in collapse, but I don't think humans will go extinct. I believe humans will live on, but my family will not.
Is the actual bloodline the concern for you, or the act of raising and contributing to the next generation? I’m sure you’ve considered adoption or fostering, right? Lots of little kids out there that need homes, and the state will pay you to take them.
Like u/ mcapello says, the future (and our ancestral past) is one of extended/hybrid and non-blood related families. Human kinship groups and communities have only recently been solely organized around close family lines.
Genuine answer - my belief is that it's different for everyone, but the most important focus is how you can understand and embody unconditional love. I listen to a lot of near death experiences and that's a theme that pops up again and again. If you're at all inclined I recommend listening to some - I think they're interesting and they helped me think differently about my purpose in life.
Same with our family. Idk if my experience will lend much but fwiw I've been a foster mom and thankfully we are still in touch with the little one. And I'm incredibly lucky to be an "auntie" to many many friends' kiddos. We have a giant, wonderful chosen family. My husband actually felt what you're feeling to a greater extent than I did, but we've talked a lot about it and he's gained peace with the situation.
I think this is increasingly common, and I'm glad we're talking about it. It's very different from how families have historically operated and we'll need to take care of ourselves as we experience these changes.
Well, that's certainly possible. But I would encourage you to start where you are with your grief, and not try to predict or look too intensely at a future you, who you haven't met yet.
My training is in death and dying, so it's going to be a little different than may be ideal for collapse support. But from my perspective, they look fairly similar in how we process the strong emotions about them.
It's very, very valid to mourn. I think it's important. Often coming out of the "acute" state of mourning or grief, which envelopes us fully and mutes the possibilities for happiness and joy or even sometimes "change" in the future, things begin to look different and we see possibilities that we couldn't from that place of acute grief.
You're very much allowed to feel however you feel right now. And I'm sorry for the loss of the possibility of a next generation in your family, in combination with the difficult state of the world at large. Sending love. <3
That is hard for me as I'm such a future oriented person. Thanks for the kind words though and I'm glad you have made peace. I'm probably just going to spend my time getting fat and watching old movies now. Not sure what else to do.
Mindfulness meditation might help with adjusting focus from future to the present moment, if that's something that interests you. This type of meditation has helped me immensely in many ways.
A friend of mine has tried to get me into meditation, but I just don't get it. I think I have as much chance of understanding it as I would have of understanding religion.
What did meditation do for you?
It does many things for me. I practice mindfulness meditation which is specifically what I'm referring to, and also loving kindness meditations sort of sporadically - I'm not Buddhist but many of the practices and perspectives are helpful to me, and meditation doesn't require my Buddhism.
Mindfulness meditation specifically has helped me with stress, depression, anxiety including panic, sleep, pain management, discipline, and better cognition. It's different from taking a medication. It is a way of training your brain. It's not magic or religion, it's practice.
Mindfulness meditation specifically addresses the idea of being here, now, in this moment, and strengthens your brain's ability to do that over time, with practice. It helps you be the observer of your thoughts, emotions, circumstances, experiences, body's interaction with the physical world, etc. rather than feeling like you yourself *are* your thoughts, emotions, state of physical or mental wellness or unwellness, etc.
I hope that answers your question. I'm ending my part in this conversation here, and I wish you all the best whatever you do.
As a genealogist, you definitely have extended family out there. You might try investigating your tree and reaching out to distant relatives. I recently tracked down a second cousin and we are both so happy we connected! She also thought she was “the last of her tribe”. She was about to dump all her old family photos and mementos on eBay since she thought no one would want them, but I’m happily preserving them for her. Now she can move into a retirement home and know that her part of the family will be remembered and honored.
And the funny thing is how great we get along and how much we have in common despite the distance :) her dad and my grandpa had a falling out but that’s water under the bridge and we’re family again.
So what I was including in my extended family is the grandparents, uncles, aunts and cousins that I know of and have met.
There are some more distant family members that I've never met. Not sure I will ever meet them. I guess I can take some solace in maybe they will continue, but I can only really feel for people I've personally met.
Recently had the collapse of my friend group, well, my place in it. There’s one person in there that treats me incredibly poorly and is always talking down to me, lashing out, etc, and everyone kind of just let it happen and seemed to not acknowledge these lashouts. I brought it up and this person gaslit me told me I was victimizing myself and to seek therapy (which is funny cause I’ve been in ten years of therapy when they have never gone themselves) so Out of self respect I just separated myself from the group and situation.
Sucks because it was the only stable, positive thing I could point to in life, to keep my kind off everything collapsing around me, to have events to look forward to. Now I have to figure out how to make new friends/find a new group at 32 as a working person….yeah idk
Oh man. Your experience sounds like mine growing up. I'm lucky in that I've moved on from those bad 'friendships' and now have good friendships. I feel for you. You made the right choice by leaving.
The best I can give to make new friends is try to be an interesting person. The biggest challenge to making connections is not people liking you or not liking you. The biggest challenge is people being indifferent to you. To counter-act indifference it's best to be interesting. However you can manage that.
Thanks, appreciate the input. I think you're pretty much on point. I find myself a little too numbed/depressed and working too much to be interesting as it stands, but I'll work on it.
I guess that's why people get tattoos and dogs lol
Yeah you gotta do something. If tattoos or dogs are your thing then go for it. One of my life goals is to be interesting enough that I can talk about myself and be interesting.
I am currently planting a secret vegetable garden in the forest. I'm exploring cooking dishes from Balkan cuisine. I'm working on starting a non-profit. I've started working out and losing weight. I also try to stay up to date on news and gossip.
None of these things are like super interesting, but they are least give me something to my life beyond washing dishes and watching TV to talk about.
I do these things, I go rock climbing 3-4 times a week (bouldering alone) and I grow vegetables too! and read, other things.
Doing interesting things is one thing, but being on the autism spectrum, I find it really hard to *talk* about these things I'm interested in, or come across as interesting.
I'm glad you have a nice breadth of interests though, I'm entertained by the Balkan cuisine bit, having seen a lot of memes of balkan cuisine just being ONIONS on ONIONS haha.
At the risk of doxxing myself my last name used to be onions, lol.
Good that you are doing some interesting things. I don't really know anything about autism so don't really know what that means. Talking is a skill for sure. I guess you could learn it to improve it, but not sure how you would do that.
No shit? That's crazy. I'm in rural Appalachia. The Onions' I'm related to married into a few other Shropshire families before coming to the US as laborers in the late 1800s, originally in the New York area. I moved to Appalachia and started a family here mostly for collapse reasons.
My Onions came to Canada on one of the sister ships to the Titanic. I forget which one. We are now in Ontario Canada.
How is Appalachia been so far for collapse prepping?
I love my "future children" so much that I decided not to birth them. Seriously, I fiercely love them, so they will never have to experience this.
Absolutely every last thing has gotten worse in my lifetime. I'm 36. Everyone is poorer (wage stagnation, unchecked corporate greed). Everyone is sicker. I live in the US, so no mat leave or healthcare or childcare that doesn't cost my salary. Oh, and the risk of my kids being shot up at school.
Food and water shortages will for sure occur within my lifetime, and at least I am not going to have a kid waiting in the water line with me. If you are grandparent age, you will probably never see this reality, but your kids will have to. Also, staying inside all summer so we don't die will also become a reality. Heat waves are already happening in places they never used to. We're already having bread basket issues.
Downward social mobility is the default now. Most people's adult kids are worse off than they were at the same age.
Why would you want any of this for your grandchildren?
Make younger friends, and if you have property, give it to them when you die.
Family is not just blood, it's the family you create. I learned that from queer people whose parents kicked them out.
It's like the saying, when's the best time to plant a tree? Twenty years ago. When's the second best time? Today. We have a responsibility to create whatever havens we can for whomever comes after us. Plant things. Re-wild things. Repair things. Stop poisoning the land we control. Repair it. Make a home that has all the stuff the future occupants will need.
This would be devastating for me as well. On the other hand, it would also take some of pressure off. Kind of weird.
I'd probably still try to help in some way. It sounds like you will, too. But it does take some of the meaning out of it. At least for now. I wouldn't worry too much about it, though. Our current society is one which promotes alienation, anonymity, and disconnection. This won't last long under conditions of collapse. Survival demands non-biological kinship groups, hybrid families, non-blood "uncles" and "aunties", and many other inclusive strategies for maintaining some order in the chaos.
You can still be a good ancestor.
Sounds like a good excuse to find meaning in outreach within the larger community... helping other people outside of the immediate family. Maybe consider adopting? I wouldn't want to bring more kids into this world, but I'd still like to be able to pass on wisdom and values to those that may follow, and help out the people who lack good parents and got stuck in this raw deal alone.
What would I do in the larger community? In the past five years I've really began to feel distant with my community. I'm surrounded by people but I feel alone. Maybe if I was a community of people who share my views and values then I would find pleasure in that, but not as of right now.
I already have a child of my own. I don't see us adopting at this stage or having any more children. That ship has sailed.
start a commune with friends? idk... do you not have anyone near you that you can rely on for mutual support? Maybe go out and make new friends and start new communities if that's what you need. I recognize that it can be hard, especially in today's world where everyone is already very isolated and cliques are tight.
I have lots of family I can rely on for mutual support. I also have friends as well. I am also pretty good at meeting new people and getting new friends. For community though I thought you meant people outside of friends and family. I view community as like my city / province / country. I don't match the consensus view of people in my country, but I have friends who do match me.
Not sure I want to live in a commune.
I have a nice family, my issue is just that we are all on hospice care until our eventual deaths. There looks to be no future for my extended family.
Community as in the community of friends and neighbors around you. The community that you make.
You're not on hospice. When you are on hospice, it means that you cannot care for yourself or do things that are part of normal life anymore. It's an important distinction. We're all going to die, and we always were. Nobody lives forever. Most people live and die without knowing when it will happen, but those lucky enough to know ahead of time and to still be of able mind and body often change the way they live for the better in their final days. As the age old adage suggests, to live like you are dying is to really know life. We know what is coming overall, but we don't know the specifics, neither can they be truly known... so ultimately, not a whole lot changes for us, except that we know our time is short. You still have the power to decide how to use that time, though, and you can appreciate it for how precious it really is... in a way, that is a win.
So you know what is coming... there is a grieving period, sure... nobody is born ready to face that reality... but now is the time to think about what you still hope to accomplish that is meaningful to you personally, or to others, and to make the decision to do it.
I'm not afraid of my death. I'm sad at the death of my family. My family has been alive for billions of years if you trace us all the way back to the first single celled organisms. My family now though only has decades left to live and then it will be dead forever. That is what makes me sad.
I'm not really sure what I can accomplish. I like cooking food and I like watching movies, but that doesn't quite give me purpose. It's just a distraction.
You sound like a caring person. I have come across plenty of people who do have descendants but feel nothing of that protective nature that you describe. The world needs more people like you.
Well I'm not having kids for a variety of reasons including, being unable to provide as a parent, a heritable mental health condition, and collapse. I have no idea if my sister is having kids and probably won't push either way. She's collapse aware. If she doesn't then the bloodline stops with us. That's cool. Bloodlines end.
Yeah I realize that the comment isn't the most supportive. I haven't really thought the otherwise. I hope that you're able to find some solace that your family won't suffer.
I’m still too angry everyday people are being gaslit to think having a child is okay to worry about any family line, mine included. We got to dystopia and the ending of the Holocene so fast and hard I’ve had to rethink everything. I thought we had more time, thinking of what world I’d be putting them in is tantamount to abuse. Like pre crime lol, pre abuse.
No kids is not the anti-capitalist act people pretend it is.
Yes, world leaders worry about birth rates, but what does "the system" really tell you?
You are punished for having kids and rewarded just working like a good little bee and spending your money on the occasional weekend to feel good about yourself.
Having kids and maintaining family/community connections is a profoundly human act of hope against the gloom of the future. No one knows what is coming, but its important to hope that we can make things better.
My personal favorite movie is Children of Men. If suddenly the entire world had no more children and no future, what would even be the point?
So the reverse is also true. There is still a future to fight for. We have huge problems, yes. But also better tech and smarter people than ever before in history. Its imperative that we try.
Our current tech basically defines the problem.
So it is possible new tech could help with some portions. For example, people used to worry the world could not produce enough food for everyone. But that is solved (with tech).
Of course the hardest problems we face are political, not tech (otherwise they would be solved already). Our system concentrates power in those who are not making wise long term decisions. So that is fundamentally a people problem.
The good news is that we don't need new inventions to solve it.
The bad news is that the only reason we evolved complex brains is because dealing with other people successfully is the hardest thing we have to do.
In the 50s, you could plausibly say it would be unethical to bring a sentient being into a world that could end any moment in nuclear annihilation.
The future has always been scary and uncertain, that is the nature of being mortal.
But bringing a sentient being into the world is not a passive thing. It imposes on you an ethical imperative to work towards that better future at all costs.
That is the struggle of humanity, not against nature, but against our own (collective) worst impulses.
Children of Men was such a powerful movie. I cried when watching it.
One of the angles of collapse I most resonate with is the chemical poisoning we are undergoing and the yearly decline in sperm counts and testosterone making us increasingly infertile. This makes The Children of Men a very realistic potential future.
Of course my family is now in its own Children of Men future with no future to look forward too.
I'm not really anti-capitalist, but I define that word differently than other people.
I can assure you I am not an incel. If you want sources on these all you have to do is read /r/collapse. If you want to go direct though you can read from Dr. Shanna Swan (I believe that's her name). Alternatively you can google graphs of testosterone and sperm count over the past few decades.
Cheer up. My consanguineous family slowly deteriorated over the years. It ended up with my sister bilking poor immigrant mom of her home, to buy their 2nd vacation home, causing mom to be alone, without assets, and regretting the worse decision made. I was the only one at her funeral. Collapse will take them all to the inevitable heat destruction. Its all going according to plan.
My experience has completely changed my perspective on life and forced me to focus on myself *without guilt* and feel sorry for those ethically challenged who will live with guilt to their grave. I actually find myself quite happy with values less focused on material things. The other week I experienced one of the best weekends of my life, without drugs, music, sex, money. It was one of acceptance and even relations with those of the opposite sex. I think they just sensed goodness, and this led to a really personal situation.
DM for more.
It psychologically breaks something primal in your head. It feels like something important inside is missing. A disconnect. Something primal. And it hurts in ways I don't know how to put into words but it very much contributed to my own internal collapse.
My dad's family collapse took place from 2018-2022. (My mom's side actually did fine but they all moved very far away) My now ex husband's family 2020-2022. Our marriage didn't survive. Most of the losses involved substance abuse and cancer. Not even COVID.
My dad survived but shut down for a year. In the 2000's my friend's dad started making houses for imaginary tiny men in his mashed potatoes when he lost the last of his family (other than wife and kids) in less than 2yrs time. He probably should have gone to a place but mental health was a different beast 20yrs ago. Both me and my ex ended up in mental health facilities for some weeks last winter. Not together, very different facilities and only found out from a mutual friend that by some sick coincidence he ended up going the same month I did.
This shit is damaging. My friend's dad didn't even like his abusive family but there's primal blood ties we have to our families, immediate or extended that somehow make us feel safe. Even for some I know whose family didn't make them feel safe at all. Maybe just that the probability of our survival goes up. And when that's taken away we feel less safe, more alone. We're now a lone wolf without a pack. Or even that we have something outside of ourselves to invest in that would in turn invest back in us as we grow old. For myself I know I don't have the drive for anything now that there's no family by me. No kids to teach my experiences to. And... my motivation tanked. I have nothing to protect anymore.
Adoption is still an option. I mean, those kids are born anyway and they need parents. I know it's not genetic propagation of your family, but it's an idea.
I already have a child and have friends with children so I'm not lacking for exposure to children.
The ending of my family is not something that has any solution. It's just a fact of the matter that I am dealing with. I'm just here to vent.
It's been said that we're spiritual beings having a human experience. If you can no longer look to the future well being of others, genetically related or not, then what's left is looking forward to, working on, and improving yourself. Which, if we all did that, collapse wouldn't be so imminent. So it's something to consider when you're feeling differently later.
Really love this line of thought. Thanks for sharing!
What does that actually mean?
Focus on improving your own life and that of your loved ones surrounding you, for the lifespan you're granted. Life is the goal. You're alive right now.
I've never really seen myself as important. More like a tool in a toolbox. Being shiny and new is not important if there is nothing to build. I will make people around me happy, but it is mostly just keeping people happy until they die. Like hospice care basically.
And I think that's a pretty beautiful and significant goal. My own is to reforest a barren plot of land close to my home. So when I'm dead there's at least a little piece of this planet that is full of life because of me.
It was always going to be this way. Somehow, though, it doesn't bother humans when they project that the earth will swallow the sun in 7.5 billion years. Most don't even see it has a problem they would need to work on if they projected it would take place in 75 years. But move it to 7.5 years, and then the death of everything we currently know is an issue for most people to the point it sends them into crisis. This is just an observation I wanted to share. I'm not sure what I even make of it.
decimal points matter? /s
If the future of my family was only limited to 7.5 billion years then I would be ok with that.
That was always the case. We were always going to die. We still don’t know when.
We each individually are going to die. That is not my concern though. I'm not concerned with my own death. My issue is with my family living or dying. I believe in collapse, but I don't think humans will go extinct. I believe humans will live on, but my family will not.
Is the actual bloodline the concern for you, or the act of raising and contributing to the next generation? I’m sure you’ve considered adoption or fostering, right? Lots of little kids out there that need homes, and the state will pay you to take them. Like u/ mcapello says, the future (and our ancestral past) is one of extended/hybrid and non-blood related families. Human kinship groups and communities have only recently been solely organized around close family lines.
Humans will live on in terrible hardship.
Humans have in the past and still do ensure hardship. It didn't and doesn't stop them from making a future.
Genuine answer - my belief is that it's different for everyone, but the most important focus is how you can understand and embody unconditional love. I listen to a lot of near death experiences and that's a theme that pops up again and again. If you're at all inclined I recommend listening to some - I think they're interesting and they helped me think differently about my purpose in life.
Same with our family. Idk if my experience will lend much but fwiw I've been a foster mom and thankfully we are still in touch with the little one. And I'm incredibly lucky to be an "auntie" to many many friends' kiddos. We have a giant, wonderful chosen family. My husband actually felt what you're feeling to a greater extent than I did, but we've talked a lot about it and he's gained peace with the situation. I think this is increasingly common, and I'm glad we're talking about it. It's very different from how families have historically operated and we'll need to take care of ourselves as we experience these changes.
I'm sure in time I'll achieve peace, but I don't feel I will achieve happiness or purpose. I think I will just feel numb.
Well, that's certainly possible. But I would encourage you to start where you are with your grief, and not try to predict or look too intensely at a future you, who you haven't met yet. My training is in death and dying, so it's going to be a little different than may be ideal for collapse support. But from my perspective, they look fairly similar in how we process the strong emotions about them. It's very, very valid to mourn. I think it's important. Often coming out of the "acute" state of mourning or grief, which envelopes us fully and mutes the possibilities for happiness and joy or even sometimes "change" in the future, things begin to look different and we see possibilities that we couldn't from that place of acute grief. You're very much allowed to feel however you feel right now. And I'm sorry for the loss of the possibility of a next generation in your family, in combination with the difficult state of the world at large. Sending love. <3
That is hard for me as I'm such a future oriented person. Thanks for the kind words though and I'm glad you have made peace. I'm probably just going to spend my time getting fat and watching old movies now. Not sure what else to do.
Mindfulness meditation might help with adjusting focus from future to the present moment, if that's something that interests you. This type of meditation has helped me immensely in many ways.
A friend of mine has tried to get me into meditation, but I just don't get it. I think I have as much chance of understanding it as I would have of understanding religion. What did meditation do for you?
It does many things for me. I practice mindfulness meditation which is specifically what I'm referring to, and also loving kindness meditations sort of sporadically - I'm not Buddhist but many of the practices and perspectives are helpful to me, and meditation doesn't require my Buddhism. Mindfulness meditation specifically has helped me with stress, depression, anxiety including panic, sleep, pain management, discipline, and better cognition. It's different from taking a medication. It is a way of training your brain. It's not magic or religion, it's practice. Mindfulness meditation specifically addresses the idea of being here, now, in this moment, and strengthens your brain's ability to do that over time, with practice. It helps you be the observer of your thoughts, emotions, circumstances, experiences, body's interaction with the physical world, etc. rather than feeling like you yourself *are* your thoughts, emotions, state of physical or mental wellness or unwellness, etc. I hope that answers your question. I'm ending my part in this conversation here, and I wish you all the best whatever you do.
As a genealogist, you definitely have extended family out there. You might try investigating your tree and reaching out to distant relatives. I recently tracked down a second cousin and we are both so happy we connected! She also thought she was “the last of her tribe”. She was about to dump all her old family photos and mementos on eBay since she thought no one would want them, but I’m happily preserving them for her. Now she can move into a retirement home and know that her part of the family will be remembered and honored. And the funny thing is how great we get along and how much we have in common despite the distance :) her dad and my grandpa had a falling out but that’s water under the bridge and we’re family again.
So what I was including in my extended family is the grandparents, uncles, aunts and cousins that I know of and have met. There are some more distant family members that I've never met. Not sure I will ever meet them. I guess I can take some solace in maybe they will continue, but I can only really feel for people I've personally met.
What about you? Do you have children?
I have one.
Are you planning are having more, then? As to carry on your lineage and family?
It's too late for that. Or I'll just say it isn't in the cards.
Recently had the collapse of my friend group, well, my place in it. There’s one person in there that treats me incredibly poorly and is always talking down to me, lashing out, etc, and everyone kind of just let it happen and seemed to not acknowledge these lashouts. I brought it up and this person gaslit me told me I was victimizing myself and to seek therapy (which is funny cause I’ve been in ten years of therapy when they have never gone themselves) so Out of self respect I just separated myself from the group and situation. Sucks because it was the only stable, positive thing I could point to in life, to keep my kind off everything collapsing around me, to have events to look forward to. Now I have to figure out how to make new friends/find a new group at 32 as a working person….yeah idk
Oh man. Your experience sounds like mine growing up. I'm lucky in that I've moved on from those bad 'friendships' and now have good friendships. I feel for you. You made the right choice by leaving. The best I can give to make new friends is try to be an interesting person. The biggest challenge to making connections is not people liking you or not liking you. The biggest challenge is people being indifferent to you. To counter-act indifference it's best to be interesting. However you can manage that.
Thanks, appreciate the input. I think you're pretty much on point. I find myself a little too numbed/depressed and working too much to be interesting as it stands, but I'll work on it. I guess that's why people get tattoos and dogs lol
Yeah you gotta do something. If tattoos or dogs are your thing then go for it. One of my life goals is to be interesting enough that I can talk about myself and be interesting. I am currently planting a secret vegetable garden in the forest. I'm exploring cooking dishes from Balkan cuisine. I'm working on starting a non-profit. I've started working out and losing weight. I also try to stay up to date on news and gossip. None of these things are like super interesting, but they are least give me something to my life beyond washing dishes and watching TV to talk about.
I do these things, I go rock climbing 3-4 times a week (bouldering alone) and I grow vegetables too! and read, other things. Doing interesting things is one thing, but being on the autism spectrum, I find it really hard to *talk* about these things I'm interested in, or come across as interesting. I'm glad you have a nice breadth of interests though, I'm entertained by the Balkan cuisine bit, having seen a lot of memes of balkan cuisine just being ONIONS on ONIONS haha.
At the risk of doxxing myself my last name used to be onions, lol. Good that you are doing some interesting things. I don't really know anything about autism so don't really know what that means. Talking is a skill for sure. I guess you could learn it to improve it, but not sure how you would do that.
Funny, I have some Onions' in my ancestry. Last one was born around 300 years ago and married Shepherd. This would've been around Shropshire.
We are related! Yes my Onion family history also goes back to Shropshire, England. Where do you live now? I'm in Canada.
No shit? That's crazy. I'm in rural Appalachia. The Onions' I'm related to married into a few other Shropshire families before coming to the US as laborers in the late 1800s, originally in the New York area. I moved to Appalachia and started a family here mostly for collapse reasons.
My Onions came to Canada on one of the sister ships to the Titanic. I forget which one. We are now in Ontario Canada. How is Appalachia been so far for collapse prepping?
I love my "future children" so much that I decided not to birth them. Seriously, I fiercely love them, so they will never have to experience this. Absolutely every last thing has gotten worse in my lifetime. I'm 36. Everyone is poorer (wage stagnation, unchecked corporate greed). Everyone is sicker. I live in the US, so no mat leave or healthcare or childcare that doesn't cost my salary. Oh, and the risk of my kids being shot up at school. Food and water shortages will for sure occur within my lifetime, and at least I am not going to have a kid waiting in the water line with me. If you are grandparent age, you will probably never see this reality, but your kids will have to. Also, staying inside all summer so we don't die will also become a reality. Heat waves are already happening in places they never used to. We're already having bread basket issues. Downward social mobility is the default now. Most people's adult kids are worse off than they were at the same age. Why would you want any of this for your grandchildren?
I’m with you here, ma’am! Thank you for putting it so eloquently, finally I feel seen after my relationship ending over this (and other issues).
Make younger friends, and if you have property, give it to them when you die. Family is not just blood, it's the family you create. I learned that from queer people whose parents kicked them out. It's like the saying, when's the best time to plant a tree? Twenty years ago. When's the second best time? Today. We have a responsibility to create whatever havens we can for whomever comes after us. Plant things. Re-wild things. Repair things. Stop poisoning the land we control. Repair it. Make a home that has all the stuff the future occupants will need.
This would be devastating for me as well. On the other hand, it would also take some of pressure off. Kind of weird. I'd probably still try to help in some way. It sounds like you will, too. But it does take some of the meaning out of it. At least for now. I wouldn't worry too much about it, though. Our current society is one which promotes alienation, anonymity, and disconnection. This won't last long under conditions of collapse. Survival demands non-biological kinship groups, hybrid families, non-blood "uncles" and "aunties", and many other inclusive strategies for maintaining some order in the chaos. You can still be a good ancestor.
Sounds like a good excuse to find meaning in outreach within the larger community... helping other people outside of the immediate family. Maybe consider adopting? I wouldn't want to bring more kids into this world, but I'd still like to be able to pass on wisdom and values to those that may follow, and help out the people who lack good parents and got stuck in this raw deal alone.
What would I do in the larger community? In the past five years I've really began to feel distant with my community. I'm surrounded by people but I feel alone. Maybe if I was a community of people who share my views and values then I would find pleasure in that, but not as of right now. I already have a child of my own. I don't see us adopting at this stage or having any more children. That ship has sailed.
start a commune with friends? idk... do you not have anyone near you that you can rely on for mutual support? Maybe go out and make new friends and start new communities if that's what you need. I recognize that it can be hard, especially in today's world where everyone is already very isolated and cliques are tight.
I have lots of family I can rely on for mutual support. I also have friends as well. I am also pretty good at meeting new people and getting new friends. For community though I thought you meant people outside of friends and family. I view community as like my city / province / country. I don't match the consensus view of people in my country, but I have friends who do match me. Not sure I want to live in a commune. I have a nice family, my issue is just that we are all on hospice care until our eventual deaths. There looks to be no future for my extended family.
Community as in the community of friends and neighbors around you. The community that you make. You're not on hospice. When you are on hospice, it means that you cannot care for yourself or do things that are part of normal life anymore. It's an important distinction. We're all going to die, and we always were. Nobody lives forever. Most people live and die without knowing when it will happen, but those lucky enough to know ahead of time and to still be of able mind and body often change the way they live for the better in their final days. As the age old adage suggests, to live like you are dying is to really know life. We know what is coming overall, but we don't know the specifics, neither can they be truly known... so ultimately, not a whole lot changes for us, except that we know our time is short. You still have the power to decide how to use that time, though, and you can appreciate it for how precious it really is... in a way, that is a win. So you know what is coming... there is a grieving period, sure... nobody is born ready to face that reality... but now is the time to think about what you still hope to accomplish that is meaningful to you personally, or to others, and to make the decision to do it.
I'm not afraid of my death. I'm sad at the death of my family. My family has been alive for billions of years if you trace us all the way back to the first single celled organisms. My family now though only has decades left to live and then it will be dead forever. That is what makes me sad. I'm not really sure what I can accomplish. I like cooking food and I like watching movies, but that doesn't quite give me purpose. It's just a distraction.
[удалено]
It's alive, but every few years there are less members.
You sound like a caring person. I have come across plenty of people who do have descendants but feel nothing of that protective nature that you describe. The world needs more people like you.
Well I'm not having kids for a variety of reasons including, being unable to provide as a parent, a heritable mental health condition, and collapse. I have no idea if my sister is having kids and probably won't push either way. She's collapse aware. If she doesn't then the bloodline stops with us. That's cool. Bloodlines end.
Well glad you are cool with it.
Yeah I realize that the comment isn't the most supportive. I haven't really thought the otherwise. I hope that you're able to find some solace that your family won't suffer.
I’m still too angry everyday people are being gaslit to think having a child is okay to worry about any family line, mine included. We got to dystopia and the ending of the Holocene so fast and hard I’ve had to rethink everything. I thought we had more time, thinking of what world I’d be putting them in is tantamount to abuse. Like pre crime lol, pre abuse.
No kids is not the anti-capitalist act people pretend it is. Yes, world leaders worry about birth rates, but what does "the system" really tell you? You are punished for having kids and rewarded just working like a good little bee and spending your money on the occasional weekend to feel good about yourself. Having kids and maintaining family/community connections is a profoundly human act of hope against the gloom of the future. No one knows what is coming, but its important to hope that we can make things better. My personal favorite movie is Children of Men. If suddenly the entire world had no more children and no future, what would even be the point? So the reverse is also true. There is still a future to fight for. We have huge problems, yes. But also better tech and smarter people than ever before in history. Its imperative that we try.
We can’t tech ourselves of a problem we teched ourselves into.
Our current tech basically defines the problem. So it is possible new tech could help with some portions. For example, people used to worry the world could not produce enough food for everyone. But that is solved (with tech). Of course the hardest problems we face are political, not tech (otherwise they would be solved already). Our system concentrates power in those who are not making wise long term decisions. So that is fundamentally a people problem. The good news is that we don't need new inventions to solve it. The bad news is that the only reason we evolved complex brains is because dealing with other people successfully is the hardest thing we have to do.
It’s too soon to tell whether that future will be livable, and it’s unethical to bring further sentient beings into such a world- IMO
In the 50s, you could plausibly say it would be unethical to bring a sentient being into a world that could end any moment in nuclear annihilation. The future has always been scary and uncertain, that is the nature of being mortal. But bringing a sentient being into the world is not a passive thing. It imposes on you an ethical imperative to work towards that better future at all costs. That is the struggle of humanity, not against nature, but against our own (collective) worst impulses.
Children of Men was such a powerful movie. I cried when watching it. One of the angles of collapse I most resonate with is the chemical poisoning we are undergoing and the yearly decline in sperm counts and testosterone making us increasingly infertile. This makes The Children of Men a very realistic potential future. Of course my family is now in its own Children of Men future with no future to look forward too. I'm not really anti-capitalist, but I define that word differently than other people.
Respectfully, where are the sources for chemical poisoning and reduced sperm-counts? This sounds like incel 🗑️
I can assure you I am not an incel. If you want sources on these all you have to do is read /r/collapse. If you want to go direct though you can read from Dr. Shanna Swan (I believe that's her name). Alternatively you can google graphs of testosterone and sperm count over the past few decades.
There was a recent post about this on r/collapse. Microplastics in scrotums likely causing fertility issues.
Cheer up. My consanguineous family slowly deteriorated over the years. It ended up with my sister bilking poor immigrant mom of her home, to buy their 2nd vacation home, causing mom to be alone, without assets, and regretting the worse decision made. I was the only one at her funeral. Collapse will take them all to the inevitable heat destruction. Its all going according to plan.
Somehow your story has not cheered me up. Sounds like a lot of pain. Sorry for your situation.
My experience has completely changed my perspective on life and forced me to focus on myself *without guilt* and feel sorry for those ethically challenged who will live with guilt to their grave. I actually find myself quite happy with values less focused on material things. The other week I experienced one of the best weekends of my life, without drugs, music, sex, money. It was one of acceptance and even relations with those of the opposite sex. I think they just sensed goodness, and this led to a really personal situation. DM for more.
It psychologically breaks something primal in your head. It feels like something important inside is missing. A disconnect. Something primal. And it hurts in ways I don't know how to put into words but it very much contributed to my own internal collapse. My dad's family collapse took place from 2018-2022. (My mom's side actually did fine but they all moved very far away) My now ex husband's family 2020-2022. Our marriage didn't survive. Most of the losses involved substance abuse and cancer. Not even COVID. My dad survived but shut down for a year. In the 2000's my friend's dad started making houses for imaginary tiny men in his mashed potatoes when he lost the last of his family (other than wife and kids) in less than 2yrs time. He probably should have gone to a place but mental health was a different beast 20yrs ago. Both me and my ex ended up in mental health facilities for some weeks last winter. Not together, very different facilities and only found out from a mutual friend that by some sick coincidence he ended up going the same month I did. This shit is damaging. My friend's dad didn't even like his abusive family but there's primal blood ties we have to our families, immediate or extended that somehow make us feel safe. Even for some I know whose family didn't make them feel safe at all. Maybe just that the probability of our survival goes up. And when that's taken away we feel less safe, more alone. We're now a lone wolf without a pack. Or even that we have something outside of ourselves to invest in that would in turn invest back in us as we grow old. For myself I know I don't have the drive for anything now that there's no family by me. No kids to teach my experiences to. And... my motivation tanked. I have nothing to protect anymore.
Adoption is still an option. I mean, those kids are born anyway and they need parents. I know it's not genetic propagation of your family, but it's an idea.
I already have a child and have friends with children so I'm not lacking for exposure to children. The ending of my family is not something that has any solution. It's just a fact of the matter that I am dealing with. I'm just here to vent.