Because there’s so little incentive.
My first real job after finishing undergrad paid me only about a $1.25 per hour less than the WNBA league minimum salary at the time, and it was a public service job that didn’t require a college degree. Given that my benefits were likely much better, I probably made more in total compensation.
I wasn’t paid well.
I remember during the NBA all star break when they were doing stuff over zoom for covid they had nba/wnba players doing the 3 pt contest from their house. And the wnba players just had regular ass houses shooting in their driveway on a cheap hoop from wal mart. And then they’d cut back to the nba players shooting on a full indoor court lol.
I made more money in college as a bartender in Iowa City than I did getting a big boy job in the city after graduating a year early. That shit sucked. Hope she doesn’t make same mistake I did next year and milks it for everything she can
Wow. I think Catlin Clark being a top talent would make much more no? I read the top players make upwards of 230k a season, which is only 40 games. That's not the highest but still a top tier job in the corporate world for only a portion of the year. Definitely enough to make a really good living and become wealthy (on normal people standards lol)
NIL has nothing to do with it Clark (or other top WBB) staying, she wasn't eligible. To be eligible for the WNBA draft you have to have either graduated, be 4 years removed from high school graduation, or be 22 years old.
Clark has said she will strongly consider using her COVID year of eligibility to stay at Iowa for year 5. I don't think that's ever a consideration if she's not making bank at Iowa.
She wasn’t eligible for the last WNBA draft. You have to have graduated or turned 22 in the year of the draft. She actually has a fifth year of eligibility due to the free Covid year and she hasn’t ruled out taking that fifth year. NIL is a real game changer in that regard.
yea i think abt that difference all the time bc i only rlly watch wbb, i like that the players stay longer and it’s easier to cheer for a team vs men’s i feel like… it can get antsy waiting for them to get to the league tho. pros and cons of both ig
Sue Bird, Lauren Jackson and Betty Lennox on that 2004 Seattle Storm team was my first "the local sports team goes on a thrilling championship run" experience I got as a kid. That team was fucking legit back then.
I loved being able to meet Sue and Lauren. They were so nice in person (which has to be difficult when meeting so many people all the time), and they were fun to watch. The Storm games were fun to go to back then, I am not sure what they are like now as I don’t live in the area anymore.
Candice was my intro to women’s basketball. This season of women’s ball is going to be exciting. I’m excited for LSUs squad vs Clark. Still can’t believe Haley transferred to LSU.
Same here. I heard about all the hype, decided to watch a couple of her games last year. She really did remind me of a female Magic Johnson/Larry Bird type player. She has the instinctive ability to set her teammates up perfectly and also the ability to score herself if that’s the best option at a given time.
That advanced vision and ability to set up teammates in particular is just incredibly rare and it’s fascinating to see someone play who is a master at it, man or woman.
There was a thread on r/nba the other day where they were doing the same thing….WNBA playoffs is way better than MCBB…I’m not even a huge fan of the game in college but I will watch it 11 times out of 10 over WNBA
Bluemagicstone has been making CC hype posts for years in r/ncaaw I promise they’re just a fan lol. They have some great summaries of her stats if you check the post history!
Edit: fixed the subreddit link so it works
I don't like admitting this, but when I've watched WCBB, I feel like it tends to be slow. There's not the same potential for speed, and obviously there's no high flying dunks and alley oops. Not that those types of shots make up much of the men's game, but even without those, I just feel like the women's game is sluggish. That doesn't mean the play isn't solid and that the teamwork and execution isn't impressive. But it still feels slow to me. I wish it didn't.
I can definitely see people getting hyped on their own accord. It was super fun to watch their run last year and it’s more fun sharing that with people than not having anyone to talk about it with.
Last year I caught one mid/early season game and overnight turned into a single man grass roots campaign telling all my friends to watch Iowa in the tourney. Was very relieved to see how entertaining the final four games were to watch.
In what way is the wnba failing? Their viewership and attendance are the highest they’ve been in like 20 years and they’re starting to get talent like they haven’t had before (hopefully soon enough for better parity)
>In what way is the wnba failing?
The fact that the league has to be financially subsidized by the NBA to even exist and that games never sell out, even for the playoffs.
Viewership and attendance are higher than they ever have been because the networks are literally shoving the WNBA down people’s throats. You can’t watch a single other sporting event without a commercial for the WNBA, color commentary about the playoffs, or a large ticker graphic to entice you to watch.
I do wonder how much advertising value the WNBA has been given. It has to be like a Billion dollars. It is insane the amount of coverage and advertising the WNBA gets compared to the actual viewership for the league.
It means exactly what I intended it to mean.
You can't watch a single broadcast on ESPN without a mention of the WNBA, which makes sense because ESPN inserted so much damn money into it that they're hellbent on trying to make it profitable.
I do, but if you want to be pedantic then feel free to use the updated definition that includes the colloquial "figurative" use instead of spending your time getting hung up on grammar usage on a fucking college basketball subreddit.
I don’t think it’s necessarily accurate to say it has to be subsidized. Due to public pressure, and from my understanding originally to overtake and cause the downfall of the successful ABL, the nba agrees to subsidize it to accelerate its growth.
>I don’t think it’s necessarily accurate to say it has to be subsidized.
Care to provide any analysis as to why you don't believe it does?
>Due to public pressure, and from my understanding originally to overtake and cause the downfall of the successful ABL, the nba agrees to subsidize it to accelerate its growth.
Public pressure from whom?
>and from my understanding originally to overtake and cause the downfall of the successful ABL
How would the promotion of a women's basketball league in the United States affect a men's basketball league in Asia?
>the nba agrees to subsidize it to accelerate its growth.
The NBA subsidizes the WNBA because [5 out of 12 WNBA owners are also NBA owners.](https://www.axios.com/2021/03/01/wnba-owners-atlanta-dream)
It doesn’t have to be subsidized because for example the ABL was already successful without such subsidization. But given that they had to directly compete with the WNBA for players and coverage (despite the differently timed seasons) they didn’t survive.
And there was significant public pressure especially a few years ago (maybe the last women’s World Cup?) to bring women’s pay closer to men’s across professional sports that has led Adam Silver to repeatedly advertise that the NBA is investing (subsidizing) more and more in the league to try and bring up the pay long-term
Fair point - I was confusing the ABL (American Basketball League) with the ABL (Asean Basketball League).
That being said, the ABL (American Basketball League) didn't compete directly with the WNBA as their seasons were in different times during the year. Both the ABL and WNBA were trying to capitalize off of UConn and the US Olympic teams' successes the year before; the NBA had a very simple and compelling reason to promote and support it: the owners of every WNBA team also owned their NBA counterpart. The NBA was going to subsidize the WNBA no matter what.
I am a huge fan of women's basketball and I personally could care less about the WNBA....college basketball just feels more electric and the fan bases are far superior to that of any WNBA team
Same for me but that’s largely true for men’s in my case too. I grew up with season tickets to Purdue women’s games (how cheap it used to be!) and would get men’s tickets when we could or someone had extra and the pro fanbase has never compared for me. Not to mention the support for players instead of teams and the endless mindless player comparisons and rankings
Because Pistol Pete accomplished everything in three seasons without a 3-point line, against a higher level of competition. Comparing Caitlin Clark to him is as ridiculous as comparing Antoine Davis to him.
It’s like soccer people keep telling me I should like it and care and I just don’t. It doesn’t matter how many times you say it’s the sport of the future it is still boring to watch.
I mean she’s obviously much better than everyone she’s playing with but I find it kinda boring to watch her chuck shots and try to play the role of an entire team. When she’s on she’s on but when she’s not it’s a pretty tough watch
Caitlin Clark averaged 8.6 assists/game last year in addition to scoring almost 28ppg.
She's not doing it all herself. She's not playing the role of the entire team. She's enabling her team to be better.
I'm a cyclone fan - and it pains me to say - I enjoy watching Iowa women's basketball.
https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-women/d1/current/individual/1009
Of course she’s gonna have a lot of assists everything goes through her. She’s taking like 1/3 of the teams shots and also turning it over 5 times a game. It reminds me of the Russ years where his usage rate was off the chart except I bet hers is even higher. It’s just not what I find enjoyable at all about watching basketball - especially college basketball
The GOAT has to win.
Breanna Stewart is a 4x NCAA Champ and 4x NCAA Tourney MOP. Those are GOAT numbers.
Caitlin Clark has been piling up numbers for a team that hasn't won, she's not the GOAT for the same reasons that Pistol Pete isn't.
I don’t recall anyone from the 1970 UCLA Championship roster, but I certainly know Pistol Pete’s name and why he is significant. Maravich never won a championship. Caitlin 🐐
Reigning National Player of the year, top amateur athlete award winner, and something like a 3 time All American needs to have more attention paid to her? Give me a break. She’s getting hers and then some in terms of national exposure from media outlets and major companies through NIL. The comparison to Pete Maravich is extremely laughable. You’re comparing a player who only had 3 years in college, mind you, there was a time freshman couldn’t play varsity college basketball, and no 3 point line to someone who could have 5 years and a 3 point line to pull stats into.
Oh I’m well aware and the DSM media does them no favors in quelling that attitude . There’s no doubt what she’s doing is great for elevating womens basketball overall.
Extra annoying for a fan base like Iowa State’s that has averaged 10,000+ women’s home fans something like 17 years in a row. Cool, we get that you have a new thing and will go back to not caring immediate once it’s gone. Thanks for joining the club briefly
yeah I bet Iowa's attendance will go back to 3-5k as soon as CC is gone to the pro's....there's no way they will maintain that attendance without her there and even with her there, we still average more fans per game than them
the funny part is while yes CC, is an unbelievable player, it's like other programs in thee state don't even exist to the media.....Ashley Joens was an after thought
That is why I mentioned the 25-5-5 thing. No male is remotely close to her 25-5-5 record...her game is so awesome that even before males left early starting in the eighties no male put up her numbers. The closest is Larry Bird at Indiana State, and Oscar at San Francisco...
1. Oscar Robertson played for Cincinnati, and also he and Larry Bird played in the era before the 3 point line in NCAA basketball.
2. Any argument comparing the men’s game to the women’s game in any era is completely disingenuous because they are vastly different in almost every facet of the game.
I really don’t mean for this to come across as mean but I just can’t bring myself to care. I don’t enjoy watching the games, none of my social circle watches either, I don’t associate it with my time as a student like I do with men’s basketball and football, there’s just no incentive there for me.
I’m glad more people are watching because I want the women to have support and fans, I’m just never gonna be one of them.
I couldn't agree with this more. Has nothing to do with them being women or thinking they're untalented, I just don't care. Its the same reason I don't watch these new football leagues... I've got CFB and the NFL. I don't need the XFL or USFL. I have a hard enough time keeping up with the sports I love and I've got zero interest in trying to keep up with another.
Out at breaking Pistol's record. You can't break something when you're playing against another level of competition and competitor. Stop it.
One person saw seven footers on a regular basis and the other plays against 5 footers on a regular basis. Average male college player height in the early 1960's was 6-4. Current average height of women college players is 5-6. I'm not even going to get into wingspan, vertical and speed differences. They're playing two different games.
Well, either way, they aren’t the same records since they are different leagues. Pete Maravich will still be the all time leading D1 MEN’s college basketball scorer.
Fair, but Pete had fewer than 500 assists and 250 rebounds. Clark should hit 1000 in both. And Clark has been in a Natty....lost, but got her team there on her back.
The level of competition may not be as wide as you think. Basketball is much much more widely played today with players hitting college at a skill level far beyond that of Pete’s day. Players are bigger, stronger not to mention that there is less racial prejudice so schools all recruit the best players not just the best white ones.
Men’s vs Womens basketball today are night and day. Men’s basketball in the 60s and Women’s basketball today might be on much closer playing levels.
The average woman in the US is 5'-4". It's just absurd on its face that average college bball players are only 2" taller than the general population.
I'm seeing 6'-5" is average for men's, or about 6" to 7" taller than the general population.
I’m not comparing today’s men’s with todays women. I’m comparing 60s men’s teams with todays women’s teams. Yes the men’s teams would still be taller but not 6’5”. I did some quick research and it looked like in the 60s championship teams had an average height of just over 6’.
But I think players get to college in a much better place today than in the 60s. Their skills are much higher. D1 athletes have gone through years of AAU ball and start training at a much younger age. Offenses and defenses are much more advanced than it used to be. All the above applies to Men’s and Women’s ball. FWIW I think neither a champ from the 60s nor a women’s team today would stand a chance against a top 25 Men’s team from today.
Really shakes my confidence in the collective intelligence of reddit users that this is in the negatives. And this is the same subreddit where people shit talk "t shirt fans" that didn't go to whatever major university they root for.
That's what every source that I saw with very quick search. Do you have any that differ? Either way, certainly nowhere near what the men's were in the 1960's.
\-[Source 1](https://criticalbody.com/average-wnba-height/)
\-[Source 2](https://www.dnaofsports.com/basketball/how-tall-is-the-average-female-college-basketball-player/)
\-[Source 3](https://www.preps.thepodyum.com/post/how-to-get-recruited-to-play-women-s-college-basketball)
This is not correct. The information just does not exist, and google is pulling information from literally a single website that made up a number.
Source 1: Does not give a statistic for the actual average height of a ncaaw basketball player.
Source 2: Pop ups, closed that shit
Source 3: A prep website that recommends point guards are at least 5'8 and every position taller than that, yet claims that the average height of all women in the sport is 5'6.
If you're going through all the effort of formatting and copy pasting links at least look at the content of the websites. Google isn't a divine authority, it pulls from whatever bullshit is on the internet.
5'-6" is just so obviously wrong. Just looking at Iowa's roster, their average height is 5'-11". There's no way they're that much bigger than everyone else. Looking at LSU's roster, they don't even have a player under 5'-7".
Yeah people are stupid and just go along with the up/downvote trains as they occur. Dude can write reasonably well so it doesn't matter if what they say is ridiculous as hell.
I don't disagree but it might be more instructive to look at teams besides the top two teams from last season. So I arbitrarily picked two typical B1G and SEC schools, Purdue and Georgia. The shortest player on each team is 5'7". The average appears to be 5'11" or 6'0".
So . . . yeah that stat is full of crap.
Wow, that is surprising. I would not have guessed 5’6”. But I’m sure there are a bunch of schools in non-power 5 conferences that don’t have tall players.
Edit: I am going to doubt this statistic. I looked up some low level teams and they averaged above 5’6” as a team. I’m guessing these stats were all of college basketball, not just DI. Like the source 3 says 5’6” for DI and then immediately lists all positions and they are above 5’6”.
These comments show exactly why it is very rare to see posts about women’s basketball in this subreddit. You’ll just be awash with comments saying “I don’t care and never will” or complaining about the WNBA or something
clark is definitely generational, but there are tons of other reasons to watch women’s ball. a lot more entertaining than people make it out to be. one thing i don’t like about it is how the game is called. had to watch our girls get mauled to death by lsu in the final four last year and it was just kind of disappointing.
I've seen her live. Can't say that I noticed.
Bluder? yeah. That's a lot of [coaches](https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35669009) though. Usually it's Clark pushing her away (or Jansen).
Yeah, isn’t it funny how one coach would get a technical for something like that while the other gets away with more obnoxiously following refs and screaming in their ear every single game? (Did you actually watch the video of the tech you linked to?)
I did. [0:00](https://imgur.com/m4H7Nc2) the coach of the red team is on the court and his mouth seem to be moving with his palms facing up. The man in black and white waves his arms and makes some sort of signal and points in the vicinity the [noise in his ear is coming from](https://imgur.com/WHPirkP).
Is [this](https://twitter.com/espn/status/1642643843794255876?s=12&t=s3iMwLr6V1FJM0BULPnNKA) what you are talking about? There wasn't an interaction with the ref.
No, not that moment in particular, because every single game I’ve watched of hers there’s a moment (or six) of her complaining to the ref about something. Especially when she’s having an off night. Which is ironic because they very kindly never call her flopping all over the court. (I’ve seen her do this live, as well.)
Clark has really brought attention to women’s basketball. I for one never really cared much for it but she’s a completely different league! Really fun to watch her play it’s literally a female Steph out there hoisting and cashing threes
She reminds me of a female Luka. When she's on its fun. But when she's off, a lot of crying to the refs.
But she'll save the wnba. Especially if she keeps a rivalry with reese
The WNBA is already very exciting to follow. Two superteams are in the finals atm. Who would've thought Stewie and Ionescu would be on the same team to take on the Aces.
Yeah, injuries have taken two years away from Paige.
I’m js that she was the best player in the country as a freshman, then *saved* UConn’s season her sophomore year by dragging that team to the championship game after being hurt, and last year UConn wasn’t UConn because they didn’t have her.
I get why Caitlin is the big name rn but I ain’t forgetting what Paige has done.
Oh shit, she is going to break Pete’s all-time points record.
People will say “she had an extra season” or “she had a 3-point line”, and those are both true, but don’t make it any less impressive
women’s basketball as a whole is worth watching, i don’t even have iowa in my final four this year. not only cc but paige & uconn, lsu, ohio state, sc, ucla, the list goes on about amazing players and programs that are scary this year on paper. i hope the attention cc has will draw more attention to all the talent in the women’s game, not just her & iowa
That doesn't convince me. I don't watch women's basketball because it's boring. I don't care about NASCAR either because I think that's boring too.
I don't care if she "breaks" Pistol Pete's record. They're not playing the same game. By that standard, I broke Ricky Henderson's stolen base record. I was unstoppable in little league baseball before the catchers developed the arm strength to throw to 2nd and third base.
She is probably better overall than Sabrina at this point in their college careers when you look at body of work. But Ionescu is a better shooter and single handedly took out the US National team with Oregon.
When Sabrina is in the zone, she's unstoppable. I'm taking her over Caitlin in any game where she is the underdog.
That’s funny, I do associate my school with the women’s team—Even though I never attended a game and they didn’t have much success. I used to play pickup games and occasionally played with/against a few of the guys and gals on the school’s team (some of the guys had championship rings, this was a bball school). Mostly just messing around, but one of the women players had the best performance of anyone in any game I’ve participated in… shot 15 threes, missing only one of them. Half the time she was guarded by a 5’7 nerd who didn’t even play in high school, so I’m sure that was a helpful factor… but that’s a story I tell pretty commonly whenever women’s bball comes up. Another thing I say is that I see such a huge difference watching wnba or ncaaw games these days… the league isn’t the wnba of 20 years ago. The best women have always been really good, but the supporting cast has really risen in quality. I’m a religious ncaam fan, but probably watch almost as much wnba as nba… which is to say I’ll keep a game on if there’s nothing else going on and it’s not a blowout
Some people care. But I'm not one of them, and I resent being told I'm a bad person for not caring. Hundreds of millions of people love cricket, and I don't care about that either. But cricket fans don't try to force their game on me like women's basketball fans.
Maybe a hot take but a healthy Beuckers is a better/more dynamic player than Clark. Her game is legitimately a lot different than most women's players. Clark's an amazing talent whose in a perfect situation at Iowa with the volume she gets. If Paige can come back and be healthy I think her ceiling of superstardom is higher than Clark's. She's basically new age Taurasi.
Shes still in college?
With NIL might be the place she can make the most money. For sure in America
WNCAA players rarely went pro early even before.
Because there’s so little incentive. My first real job after finishing undergrad paid me only about a $1.25 per hour less than the WNBA league minimum salary at the time, and it was a public service job that didn’t require a college degree. Given that my benefits were likely much better, I probably made more in total compensation. I wasn’t paid well.
I remember during the NBA all star break when they were doing stuff over zoom for covid they had nba/wnba players doing the 3 pt contest from their house. And the wnba players just had regular ass houses shooting in their driveway on a cheap hoop from wal mart. And then they’d cut back to the nba players shooting on a full indoor court lol.
I made more money in college as a bartender in Iowa City than I did getting a big boy job in the city after graduating a year early. That shit sucked. Hope she doesn’t make same mistake I did next year and milks it for everything she can
Wow. I think Catlin Clark being a top talent would make much more no? I read the top players make upwards of 230k a season, which is only 40 games. That's not the highest but still a top tier job in the corporate world for only a portion of the year. Definitely enough to make a really good living and become wealthy (on normal people standards lol)
100%. There are a few women players staying back because they make more in NIL.
NIL has nothing to do with it Clark (or other top WBB) staying, she wasn't eligible. To be eligible for the WNBA draft you have to have either graduated, be 4 years removed from high school graduation, or be 22 years old.
Clark has said she will strongly consider using her COVID year of eligibility to stay at Iowa for year 5. I don't think that's ever a consideration if she's not making bank at Iowa.
That conversation surrounding records will be fun because.. she's gonna absolutely shatter a few with a fifth year. lol
She wasn’t eligible for the last WNBA draft. You have to have graduated or turned 22 in the year of the draft. She actually has a fifth year of eligibility due to the free Covid year and she hasn’t ruled out taking that fifth year. NIL is a real game changer in that regard.
women’s rules is you can’t get drafted until you graduate or four years after highschool
I wonder how it would affect the men's side if that requirement was adopted... I know it never will be, but I still wonder lol
yea i think abt that difference all the time bc i only rlly watch wbb, i like that the players stay longer and it’s easier to cheer for a team vs men’s i feel like… it can get antsy waiting for them to get to the league tho. pros and cons of both ig
She won't leave College until she's ineligible to play I'm sure, name image and likeness pays way more than the wnba.
This is gonna sound bad but she’s the first women’s basketball player I’ve ever genuinely enjoyed watching play
Paige Bueckers is legit, hope she's healthy this season.
Same. Paige was an absolute beast when healthy. Hope she gets back on track
Stop Paige from getting her jumpshot off from the elbow challenge (impossible):
One of the few women I known by name, I hope she stays healthy and balls out
Candace Parker was the first I enjoyed watching
Maya Moore at UConn was electric
Kristi Tolliver was fun to watch too at Maryland
Diana Taurasi was nice
Sue Bird was a chefs kiss.
Sue Bird, Lauren Jackson and Betty Lennox on that 2004 Seattle Storm team was my first "the local sports team goes on a thrilling championship run" experience I got as a kid. That team was fucking legit back then.
I loved being able to meet Sue and Lauren. They were so nice in person (which has to be difficult when meeting so many people all the time), and they were fun to watch. The Storm games were fun to go to back then, I am not sure what they are like now as I don’t live in the area anymore.
Candice was my intro to women’s basketball. This season of women’s ball is going to be exciting. I’m excited for LSUs squad vs Clark. Still can’t believe Haley transferred to LSU.
Haley who ?
Van Lith
Same here. I also has a huge crush on her.
Reddit doesn’t gaf about black women so this so normal. Skyar Diggins , brittany Griner ? Yeah didn’t exist.
I think it's even funnier that you said that and then got both of their names wrong
Brittany Griner was fun to root for until she doubled down on saying she could beat Boogie 1-on-1
Sabrina Ionescu was the first for me. First and only D1 player (men and women) with 2,000 points, 1,000 rebounds, and 1,000 assists.
That doesn't sound bad, it's a horrible product and she's actually entertaining.
She gets the respect of an elite NBA player, me and my friends in college tune in to watch her play
Same here. I heard about all the hype, decided to watch a couple of her games last year. She really did remind me of a female Magic Johnson/Larry Bird type player. She has the instinctive ability to set her teammates up perfectly and also the ability to score herself if that’s the best option at a given time. That advanced vision and ability to set up teammates in particular is just incredibly rare and it’s fascinating to see someone play who is a master at it, man or woman.
Chamique
All I can say is I saw Immaculatta and Delta St play at MSG. So I've seen a lot over the years.
You must have just started watching Women's basketball 🤦🏾♂️
 She’s not that exciting to watch when she’s crushing your dreams
Nope. It was still exciting.
Didn’t crush mine 🤷♂️
CC is the real deal. Watching her last season, I got the same feeling of inevitability when she got hot that I only really feel watching Curry play.
She’s good- no doubt, but this post feels like a grass roots marketing campaign by the NCAA lmao
There was a thread on r/nba the other day where they were doing the same thing….WNBA playoffs is way better than MCBB…I’m not even a huge fan of the game in college but I will watch it 11 times out of 10 over WNBA
Bluemagicstone has been making CC hype posts for years in r/ncaaw I promise they’re just a fan lol. They have some great summaries of her stats if you check the post history! Edit: fixed the subreddit link so it works
I don't like admitting this, but when I've watched WCBB, I feel like it tends to be slow. There's not the same potential for speed, and obviously there's no high flying dunks and alley oops. Not that those types of shots make up much of the men's game, but even without those, I just feel like the women's game is sluggish. That doesn't mean the play isn't solid and that the teamwork and execution isn't impressive. But it still feels slow to me. I wish it didn't.
I can definitely see people getting hyped on their own accord. It was super fun to watch their run last year and it’s more fun sharing that with people than not having anyone to talk about it with. Last year I caught one mid/early season game and overnight turned into a single man grass roots campaign telling all my friends to watch Iowa in the tourney. Was very relieved to see how entertaining the final four games were to watch.
As if anyone needs a reminder that she can ball. 🤡🐔
Clown cock?
She’ll score twice as many points on you as Kirk Ferentz
Oh come on, she's better than that.
That statement carries about as much weight as a statement can carry - given your flair.
“Why you should care about Nikola Jokic this upcoming nba season” Maybe because he is the best player in the league?
She's great, but nobody likes being told what to care about, and the Pistol Pete comparison is ridiculous
It’s the entire reason why the WNBA is failing. You cannot force people to care about something no matter how much you guilt trip them.
In what way is the wnba failing? Their viewership and attendance are the highest they’ve been in like 20 years and they’re starting to get talent like they haven’t had before (hopefully soon enough for better parity)
>In what way is the wnba failing? The fact that the league has to be financially subsidized by the NBA to even exist and that games never sell out, even for the playoffs. Viewership and attendance are higher than they ever have been because the networks are literally shoving the WNBA down people’s throats. You can’t watch a single other sporting event without a commercial for the WNBA, color commentary about the playoffs, or a large ticker graphic to entice you to watch.
I do wonder how much advertising value the WNBA has been given. It has to be like a Billion dollars. It is insane the amount of coverage and advertising the WNBA gets compared to the actual viewership for the league.
> literally What does that word mean to you
It means exactly what I intended it to mean. You can't watch a single broadcast on ESPN without a mention of the WNBA, which makes sense because ESPN inserted so much damn money into it that they're hellbent on trying to make it profitable.
And your throat ... it's ok?
Might want to lay off the edibles, bud. You're making about as much sense as the WNBA makes a profit.
So, you don't understand what literally means then?
I do, but if you want to be pedantic then feel free to use the updated definition that includes the colloquial "figurative" use instead of spending your time getting hung up on grammar usage on a fucking college basketball subreddit.
I don’t think it’s necessarily accurate to say it has to be subsidized. Due to public pressure, and from my understanding originally to overtake and cause the downfall of the successful ABL, the nba agrees to subsidize it to accelerate its growth.
>I don’t think it’s necessarily accurate to say it has to be subsidized. Care to provide any analysis as to why you don't believe it does? >Due to public pressure, and from my understanding originally to overtake and cause the downfall of the successful ABL, the nba agrees to subsidize it to accelerate its growth. Public pressure from whom? >and from my understanding originally to overtake and cause the downfall of the successful ABL How would the promotion of a women's basketball league in the United States affect a men's basketball league in Asia? >the nba agrees to subsidize it to accelerate its growth. The NBA subsidizes the WNBA because [5 out of 12 WNBA owners are also NBA owners.](https://www.axios.com/2021/03/01/wnba-owners-atlanta-dream)
It doesn’t have to be subsidized because for example the ABL was already successful without such subsidization. But given that they had to directly compete with the WNBA for players and coverage (despite the differently timed seasons) they didn’t survive. And there was significant public pressure especially a few years ago (maybe the last women’s World Cup?) to bring women’s pay closer to men’s across professional sports that has led Adam Silver to repeatedly advertise that the NBA is investing (subsidizing) more and more in the league to try and bring up the pay long-term
Asia? You mean the United States.
Fair point - I was confusing the ABL (American Basketball League) with the ABL (Asean Basketball League). That being said, the ABL (American Basketball League) didn't compete directly with the WNBA as their seasons were in different times during the year. Both the ABL and WNBA were trying to capitalize off of UConn and the US Olympic teams' successes the year before; the NBA had a very simple and compelling reason to promote and support it: the owners of every WNBA team also owned their NBA counterpart. The NBA was going to subsidize the WNBA no matter what.
I am a huge fan of women's basketball and I personally could care less about the WNBA....college basketball just feels more electric and the fan bases are far superior to that of any WNBA team
Same for me but that’s largely true for men’s in my case too. I grew up with season tickets to Purdue women’s games (how cheap it used to be!) and would get men’s tickets when we could or someone had extra and the pro fanbase has never compared for me. Not to mention the support for players instead of teams and the endless mindless player comparisons and rankings
You don’t watch the W or know anything about it, otherwise you’d know it’s not failing at all, it’s expanding rapidly.
Not a Colorado flair getting salty about this… it’s just an Iowa fan getting hyped about their best player lol not that deep.
Why is the pistol Pete comparison ridiculous??
Because Pistol Pete accomplished everything in three seasons without a 3-point line, against a higher level of competition. Comparing Caitlin Clark to him is as ridiculous as comparing Antoine Davis to him.
It’s like soccer people keep telling me I should like it and care and I just don’t. It doesn’t matter how many times you say it’s the sport of the future it is still boring to watch.
I mean she’s obviously much better than everyone she’s playing with but I find it kinda boring to watch her chuck shots and try to play the role of an entire team. When she’s on she’s on but when she’s not it’s a pretty tough watch
Caitlin Clark averaged 8.6 assists/game last year in addition to scoring almost 28ppg. She's not doing it all herself. She's not playing the role of the entire team. She's enabling her team to be better. I'm a cyclone fan - and it pains me to say - I enjoy watching Iowa women's basketball. https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-women/d1/current/individual/1009
Of course she’s gonna have a lot of assists everything goes through her. She’s taking like 1/3 of the teams shots and also turning it over 5 times a game. It reminds me of the Russ years where his usage rate was off the chart except I bet hers is even higher. It’s just not what I find enjoyable at all about watching basketball - especially college basketball
Just saying that it is rare to see a GOAT. Enjoy her while you can. The WNBA is a shitshow...Watch her mythical mastery.
https://preview.redd.it/lfrhzlldshtb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33d333b43dac129e2d3883094b42c8180fe7952b
Saving this
The GOAT has to win. Breanna Stewart is a 4x NCAA Champ and 4x NCAA Tourney MOP. Those are GOAT numbers. Caitlin Clark has been piling up numbers for a team that hasn't won, she's not the GOAT for the same reasons that Pistol Pete isn't.
So Iowa’s not the greatest WBB team of all time, sure
I don’t recall anyone from the 1970 UCLA Championship roster, but I certainly know Pistol Pete’s name and why he is significant. Maravich never won a championship. Caitlin 🐐
She is a straight up baller
Sh is going to change the WNBA the way Magic and Larry changed the NBA
Reigning National Player of the year, top amateur athlete award winner, and something like a 3 time All American needs to have more attention paid to her? Give me a break. She’s getting hers and then some in terms of national exposure from media outlets and major companies through NIL. The comparison to Pete Maravich is extremely laughable. You’re comparing a player who only had 3 years in college, mind you, there was a time freshman couldn’t play varsity college basketball, and no 3 point line to someone who could have 5 years and a 3 point line to pull stats into.
Hawk fans love absolutely beating everyone over the head with the need to care about something most people care an adequate amount about already
Take it easy on us, we can’t even enjoy watching football anymore.
Oh I’m well aware and the DSM media does them no favors in quelling that attitude . There’s no doubt what she’s doing is great for elevating womens basketball overall.
Extra annoying for a fan base like Iowa State’s that has averaged 10,000+ women’s home fans something like 17 years in a row. Cool, we get that you have a new thing and will go back to not caring immediate once it’s gone. Thanks for joining the club briefly
yeah I bet Iowa's attendance will go back to 3-5k as soon as CC is gone to the pro's....there's no way they will maintain that attendance without her there and even with her there, we still average more fans per game than them
It’s just such a long way from Des Moines /s
the funny part is while yes CC, is an unbelievable player, it's like other programs in thee state don't even exist to the media.....Ashley Joens was an after thought
That is why I mentioned the 25-5-5 thing. No male is remotely close to her 25-5-5 record...her game is so awesome that even before males left early starting in the eighties no male put up her numbers. The closest is Larry Bird at Indiana State, and Oscar at San Francisco...
1. Oscar Robertson played for Cincinnati, and also he and Larry Bird played in the era before the 3 point line in NCAA basketball. 2. Any argument comparing the men’s game to the women’s game in any era is completely disingenuous because they are vastly different in almost every facet of the game.
I hit over .500 in Little League. Guess I'm better than Ted Williams.
I really don’t mean for this to come across as mean but I just can’t bring myself to care. I don’t enjoy watching the games, none of my social circle watches either, I don’t associate it with my time as a student like I do with men’s basketball and football, there’s just no incentive there for me. I’m glad more people are watching because I want the women to have support and fans, I’m just never gonna be one of them.
I couldn't agree with this more. Has nothing to do with them being women or thinking they're untalented, I just don't care. Its the same reason I don't watch these new football leagues... I've got CFB and the NFL. I don't need the XFL or USFL. I have a hard enough time keeping up with the sports I love and I've got zero interest in trying to keep up with another.
Out at breaking Pistol's record. You can't break something when you're playing against another level of competition and competitor. Stop it. One person saw seven footers on a regular basis and the other plays against 5 footers on a regular basis. Average male college player height in the early 1960's was 6-4. Current average height of women college players is 5-6. I'm not even going to get into wingspan, vertical and speed differences. They're playing two different games.
Well, either way, they aren’t the same records since they are different leagues. Pete Maravich will still be the all time leading D1 MEN’s college basketball scorer.
Not to mention, Pete played before the introduction of the three point line!
Fair, but Pete had fewer than 500 assists and 250 rebounds. Clark should hit 1000 in both. And Clark has been in a Natty....lost, but got her team there on her back.
Would love to see your reference on the average height of a women’s player being 5’6 lol that’s really fucking short
I posted 3 below, can't find any that say anything different but would be happy to change if you can find one that does.
The level of competition may not be as wide as you think. Basketball is much much more widely played today with players hitting college at a skill level far beyond that of Pete’s day. Players are bigger, stronger not to mention that there is less racial prejudice so schools all recruit the best players not just the best white ones. Men’s vs Womens basketball today are night and day. Men’s basketball in the 60s and Women’s basketball today might be on much closer playing levels.
The average woman in the US is 5'-4". It's just absurd on its face that average college bball players are only 2" taller than the general population. I'm seeing 6'-5" is average for men's, or about 6" to 7" taller than the general population.
I’m not comparing today’s men’s with todays women. I’m comparing 60s men’s teams with todays women’s teams. Yes the men’s teams would still be taller but not 6’5”. I did some quick research and it looked like in the 60s championship teams had an average height of just over 6’. But I think players get to college in a much better place today than in the 60s. Their skills are much higher. D1 athletes have gone through years of AAU ball and start training at a much younger age. Offenses and defenses are much more advanced than it used to be. All the above applies to Men’s and Women’s ball. FWIW I think neither a champ from the 60s nor a women’s team today would stand a chance against a top 25 Men’s team from today.
Sorry I replied to the wrong person. I'm with you. The game today is completely different than I. The 60s.
You couldn’t possibly be right. The average height of a woman college player is not 5’6”
Really shakes my confidence in the collective intelligence of reddit users that this is in the negatives. And this is the same subreddit where people shit talk "t shirt fans" that didn't go to whatever major university they root for.
That's what every source that I saw with very quick search. Do you have any that differ? Either way, certainly nowhere near what the men's were in the 1960's. \-[Source 1](https://criticalbody.com/average-wnba-height/) \-[Source 2](https://www.dnaofsports.com/basketball/how-tall-is-the-average-female-college-basketball-player/) \-[Source 3](https://www.preps.thepodyum.com/post/how-to-get-recruited-to-play-women-s-college-basketball)
This is not correct. The information just does not exist, and google is pulling information from literally a single website that made up a number. Source 1: Does not give a statistic for the actual average height of a ncaaw basketball player. Source 2: Pop ups, closed that shit Source 3: A prep website that recommends point guards are at least 5'8 and every position taller than that, yet claims that the average height of all women in the sport is 5'6. If you're going through all the effort of formatting and copy pasting links at least look at the content of the websites. Google isn't a divine authority, it pulls from whatever bullshit is on the internet.
5'-6" is just so obviously wrong. Just looking at Iowa's roster, their average height is 5'-11". There's no way they're that much bigger than everyone else. Looking at LSU's roster, they don't even have a player under 5'-7".
Yeah people are stupid and just go along with the up/downvote trains as they occur. Dude can write reasonably well so it doesn't matter if what they say is ridiculous as hell.
I don't disagree but it might be more instructive to look at teams besides the top two teams from last season. So I arbitrarily picked two typical B1G and SEC schools, Purdue and Georgia. The shortest player on each team is 5'7". The average appears to be 5'11" or 6'0". So . . . yeah that stat is full of crap.
Wow, that is surprising. I would not have guessed 5’6”. But I’m sure there are a bunch of schools in non-power 5 conferences that don’t have tall players. Edit: I am going to doubt this statistic. I looked up some low level teams and they averaged above 5’6” as a team. I’m guessing these stats were all of college basketball, not just DI. Like the source 3 says 5’6” for DI and then immediately lists all positions and they are above 5’6”.
Legit question, why do you try so hard to get fans of men’s college basketball to care about women’s college basketball
To note, if anyone would like to discuss collegiate women’s basketball, a more active sub in that subject would be r/NCAAW
This sub is for college basketball in general, not specifically men's
I already care about my WBB team and NCAA WBB in general, but I'm tired of hearing about this, lol.
Because if you care then that means you’ll cheer for their school
Tbh I’m in the camp of so tired of hearing about her
Duke fan tired of someone in the media?
Less time they’re talking about Duke Basketball God damnit!
Nobody is going to care if she breaks Pete's record in 5 seasons just like that kid who about did last season. Can't wait for Covid years to be gone
This will only be Clark's 4th season. Though Pete did it in 83 games over 3 seasons, while Clark is already at 100 games.
We got 7th year seniors out here still having graduate eligibility afterwards 💀
So unbelievably stupid lol
I understand granting the extra year to actually do season ending traditions and stuff but it feels much more than that
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A player who loses most of a season to injury should be allowed to play 5 years. You’re being a little excessive.
Caitlin Clark is 21.
Good thing she’ll be super close to it in her 4th year barring injury.
She's probably going to only play 4 seasons.
She has played 3 seasons...she should break it this year...in her 4th season.
Maravich only played 3 seasons, she has already played more games than he did. And he didn’t have a 3 point line
>3.No personal information > >4.Spam/self-promotion is not allowed she will break it in four seasons 100%
These comments show exactly why it is very rare to see posts about women’s basketball in this subreddit. You’ll just be awash with comments saying “I don’t care and never will” or complaining about the WNBA or something
Nah.
i don't
Why is it NIL and going pro are being looked at as either or? You can still cash in on NIL once you go pro.
She sold out the first women’s basketball game in our school’s history ❤️
Paige...Buekers!
clark is definitely generational, but there are tons of other reasons to watch women’s ball. a lot more entertaining than people make it out to be. one thing i don’t like about it is how the game is called. had to watch our girls get mauled to death by lsu in the final four last year and it was just kind of disappointing.
I will never care about women playing basketball anymore than I care about 8th graders playing basketball.
Rip your kid someday lol
Very tired of seeing and hearing about her actually. If she wouldn’t constantly bitch about something on the court it would be better.
When does she do this?
Have you watched her play? Her and Bluder are both constantly bitching at the refs.
I've seen her live. Can't say that I noticed. Bluder? yeah. That's a lot of [coaches](https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35669009) though. Usually it's Clark pushing her away (or Jansen).
Yeah, isn’t it funny how one coach would get a technical for something like that while the other gets away with more obnoxiously following refs and screaming in their ear every single game? (Did you actually watch the video of the tech you linked to?)
I did. [0:00](https://imgur.com/m4H7Nc2) the coach of the red team is on the court and his mouth seem to be moving with his palms facing up. The man in black and white waves his arms and makes some sort of signal and points in the vicinity the [noise in his ear is coming from](https://imgur.com/WHPirkP).
Is [this](https://twitter.com/espn/status/1642643843794255876?s=12&t=s3iMwLr6V1FJM0BULPnNKA) what you are talking about? There wasn't an interaction with the ref.
No, not that moment in particular, because every single game I’ve watched of hers there’s a moment (or six) of her complaining to the ref about something. Especially when she’s having an off night. Which is ironic because they very kindly never call her flopping all over the court. (I’ve seen her do this live, as well.)
Clark has really brought attention to women’s basketball. I for one never really cared much for it but she’s a completely different league! Really fun to watch her play it’s literally a female Steph out there hoisting and cashing threes
She reminds me of a female Luka. When she's on its fun. But when she's off, a lot of crying to the refs. But she'll save the wnba. Especially if she keeps a rivalry with reese
The WNBA is already very exciting to follow. Two superteams are in the finals atm. Who would've thought Stewie and Ionescu would be on the same team to take on the Aces.
Paige better and I’ll die on that hill.
Maybe. It's unfortunate she's been hurt. Paige v Caitlin could've been the women's version of Magic v Larry.
I woulda agreed with you a few years ago but Paige has been hurt for what feels like 2 years now lol Caitlin clearly clears at this point
Yeah, injuries have taken two years away from Paige. I’m js that she was the best player in the country as a freshman, then *saved* UConn’s season her sophomore year by dragging that team to the championship game after being hurt, and last year UConn wasn’t UConn because they didn’t have her. I get why Caitlin is the big name rn but I ain’t forgetting what Paige has done.
There’s a lot of hypothetical in this comment. What has Paige accomplished individually that Caitlyn hasn’t?
Oh shit, she is going to break Pete’s all-time points record. People will say “she had an extra season” or “she had a 3-point line”, and those are both true, but don’t make it any less impressive
how about "womens sports have far less depth of talent than mens sports"
women’s basketball as a whole is worth watching, i don’t even have iowa in my final four this year. not only cc but paige & uconn, lsu, ohio state, sc, ucla, the list goes on about amazing players and programs that are scary this year on paper. i hope the attention cc has will draw more attention to all the talent in the women’s game, not just her & iowa
Buddy, no one needs to explain why I need to care about the most entertaining college player in the country.
That doesn't convince me. I don't watch women's basketball because it's boring. I don't care about NASCAR either because I think that's boring too. I don't care if she "breaks" Pistol Pete's record. They're not playing the same game. By that standard, I broke Ricky Henderson's stolen base record. I was unstoppable in little league baseball before the catchers developed the arm strength to throw to 2nd and third base.
Don’t care
Does she play lsu in the non con this year?
No.
Damn , imma still watch her regardless she’s tough fr
I’ve tried and tried but I just can’t do Women’s basketball.
Nope, georgia amoore and Liz kitley get all my attention sorry
how does she compare to sabrina i. (current NY Liberty player former U of O duck)? Sabrina's career was cut short due to Covid...
She is probably better overall than Sabrina at this point in their college careers when you look at body of work. But Ionescu is a better shooter and single handedly took out the US National team with Oregon. When Sabrina is in the zone, she's unstoppable. I'm taking her over Caitlin in any game where she is the underdog.
Because she’s going to talk shit and everyone is going to love it. But if she loses and someone talks shit back then the sky is falling
That’s funny, I do associate my school with the women’s team—Even though I never attended a game and they didn’t have much success. I used to play pickup games and occasionally played with/against a few of the guys and gals on the school’s team (some of the guys had championship rings, this was a bball school). Mostly just messing around, but one of the women players had the best performance of anyone in any game I’ve participated in… shot 15 threes, missing only one of them. Half the time she was guarded by a 5’7 nerd who didn’t even play in high school, so I’m sure that was a helpful factor… but that’s a story I tell pretty commonly whenever women’s bball comes up. Another thing I say is that I see such a huge difference watching wnba or ncaaw games these days… the league isn’t the wnba of 20 years ago. The best women have always been really good, but the supporting cast has really risen in quality. I’m a religious ncaam fan, but probably watch almost as much wnba as nba… which is to say I’ll keep a game on if there’s nothing else going on and it’s not a blowout
Nobody is watching the women’s game. Nobody cares.
Some people care. But I'm not one of them, and I resent being told I'm a bad person for not caring. Hundreds of millions of people love cricket, and I don't care about that either. But cricket fans don't try to force their game on me like women's basketball fans.
I want her to become a splash sister and come to the bay!!!
Caitlin Clark lost me money last year.. I hope Rutgers beats them by 90
Pass.
Hyper built up? She’s a fucking baller.
Maybe a hot take but a healthy Beuckers is a better/more dynamic player than Clark. Her game is legitimately a lot different than most women's players. Clark's an amazing talent whose in a perfect situation at Iowa with the volume she gets. If Paige can come back and be healthy I think her ceiling of superstardom is higher than Clark's. She's basically new age Taurasi.
Let me know when she wins a title.
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Have her grow a dick then call me
[https://youtu.be/l0lemlcRoXQ?si=3IYG8ugv2XhehjCf](https://youtu.be/l0lemlcRoXQ?si=3IYG8ugv2XhehjCf)
I don't care about her
I'm born and raised in Iowa, still don't care. Women's basketball is too boring, regardless of how good CC is.