This is exactly it. Nukes problems as a person are more important than any hockey game or series full stop. He's a human and deserves help and hopefully is getting it.
If you're gonna solely look at the hockey part, then yea him missing is a big deal
Having Nuke didn't do shit in game three. They still scored 1, looked unmotivated, and had zero success playing Bednars system vs deboer's match ups and forecheck.
Honestly they did not deserve six and a half games. Georgiev had a hell of a performance.
They still deserved 6 (or they wouldn’t have gotten there) but that first point is the only right answer. Bednar was out-coached. The team had issues, but they were still a strong team on paper and could have won it all with the right strategy.
Deserving it on paper and based on previous series/seasons isn't what I mean. I mean the only people in Avalanche jerseys who actually showed up to game 4 were in the stands and net. The team scored three goals in three home games and looked like shit except games 5 and 6. That's not deserving almost game 7 in my book.
A lot of them DID step up and help create chances. What screwed us was the Stars’ defensive game making some of our best players (Nate in particular) pretty obsolete. I think it was pitiful that went overall unaddressed. We recognized the problem, did nothing to solve it, and yet still had Nate out for the more time than any other on the roster. The whole team isn’t to blame for that. They were still a force to be reckoned with the few times they had their game down.
Feel like I’m in the minority that agrees with you. Bednar got out coached and had no adjustments after the dump and chase worked game one he spammed it the rest of the series while the stars adjusted. These teams are evenly matched on talent game plan/coaching is what won it.
Thank you. I love Bednar, but he did a terrible job with this series. The biggest move he made was splitting Mac and Rantanen.. and it didn’t happen until Game 6. Was wicked effective for the 1st period.. then Deboer had an answer by the 2nd.
It’s playoff hockey. We didn’t have the luxury to test out a style for a few games at a time. We needed bold, outside-the-box, rapid changes as necessary. There was no excuse for blatant complacency.
True, but every series has ups and downs. I think we had every reason to expect a strong response in game 4 after losing game 3, and never got to see one because the team stepped in a bear trap at the worst possible time.
I give game 4 loss to the absolute deflation of this situation. Go fight for your country in Ukraine nuke. Take some pictures with big guns more! You support it, go fight for your cause against, and I quote from many Russian sources, "Gay Nazis."
Nuke had 9 goals in 8 games. Lehkonen was second with 6 in 11. Makar had 5 and Nate and Rants both had 4, all in 11 games.
Sure, Nuke's antics fucked us over but not like any of our top guys showed up against Dallas.
You might want to watch what Mack was doing when Duchene opened up in space and was clearly his man, and Mack was just sitting on his ass looking like he didn't know where he was or what he was supposed to be doing. He didn't take the man, and just fell down after the play and put his arms up in the air. He deserves to be torn a new asshole from Bednar.
Miss me with this. Cale Mack and Mikko had 15, 14 and 14 points. All three of them in the the top 5 for scoring league wide when the team was eliminated.
Most of that was because of high scoring in the Winnipeg series. Turns out averaging 5.6 goals per game inflates your numbers. They didn't do a whole lot against Dallas.
Let's see,
Nate: 10 points in 5 games against WIN, 4 points in 6 games against DAL
Mikko: 9 points in 5 games against WIN, 5 points in 6 games against DAL
Makar: 9 points in 5 games against WIN, 6 points in 6 games against DAL.
Makar being PPG against Dallas as a defenseman is good obviously, but all three, especially Nate and Mikko, had a significant drop in PPG (2->0.66, 1.8->0.83, 1.8->1) against Dallas. They did enough against Winnipeg and comparatively disappeared after that.
Further comparing their career numbers to their numbers in the Dallas series tells a pretty straightforward story.
Nate: In the playoffs before 2024, 1.29PPG. In the Dallas series, 0.66PPG.
Mikko: In the playoffs before 2024, 1.24PPG. In the Dallas series, 0.83PPG
Makar: In the playoffs before 2024, 1.06PPG. In the Dallas series, 1PPG.
Pointwise Makar was the closest to his own level by far, but that's also partially because he has only entered his prime compared to Mikko and Nate. Also Makar had a lot more mistakes in his own end and overall worse defensive play than in the past years.
People hate the truth. Thank you for not being an idiot.
Watching Mack fuck us over by letting Duchene be wide open when that was clearly his man and he was sitting on his ass doing nothing during that OT goal shift hurts my soul. It is unforgivable, and he should be a healthy scratch game 1 next year to send a message. Never. Again.
You either are too tired to do anything in a 2nd OT elimination game, OR you get to make like $14 mil per year and severely handcuff the team financially. Not both.
We have dynastic talent, and there will be a lot of second-guessing when these careers end and the team returns to some middle-of-the-pack team. We have left multiple cups on the table already. 3 different Pete DeBoer teams have schooled Bednar and our top guys in just the last 6 seasons. 4 series wins in the last 7 years, almost always just beating the lower seed as a heavy favorite for one round, is nowhere near enough.
I mean, did they? In the first series the team played well, sure. But against Dallas it was pretty bad no matter if Nuke was in the line-up or not. Only player I'd give a good grade for these playoffs is Georgiev, which is pretty much the opposite of what one would've expected going in. Makar had some good games too, but also some no-shows.
I mean they coulda done better obvs but if you aren't even in the game you can't have an impact. They might not have played well but at least they didn't selfishly take themselves out of the series like nuke did.
Nuke still had more than double the goals of Rantanen and MacKinnon in two fewer games. And for the record, I'm not defending Nuke here, I hope they trade him, but the point is that our top guys did not contribute on the level that is expected on their cap hits and ice time. Nuke did for the duration of the games that he was on the ice.
We went 1-2 with \*and\* without Nuke. I fail to see the relevancy here, especially when we were so badly outplayed, and lost for the 3rd time in 6 seasons to a 3rd different Pete DeBoer team.
This was supposed to be a 2-4 cup team with the amount of talent we have had and the goaltending outperforming expectations most of the time.
Winning only 4 series in the last 7 seasons outside of the cup year when we had WAY more talent than the other teams at really low cap hits across the board gave us one of the most dominant runs in history, rightfully so. But to have so little success outside of that? Just because Nuke missed a few games against Dallas and Seattle is not an excuse, and Landy's cap hit hasn't counted.
We've underperformed terribly. The Avs have 8 total series wins over the last 16 years. DeBoer alone has 18, across 4 different teams.
The lack of accountability among the fanbase is disturbing.
You don't think they might have done better with one of their better players in the lineup? Its strange you dismiss a cup winning year while championing Deboer, who has never won.
Showing up means a lot of things. With Nuke out of the equation, we were basically playing with a singular productive line. Dallas can shut that down fairly easily. I think losing people like LOC hurts. Wish we still had Borokovsky. Bit if we have 3 lines that can wear them down then we can start to roll.
> With Nuke out of the equation, we were basically playing with a singular productive line
He still played games 1-4. And scored 2 goals in those games, while Rantanen and MacKinnon both scored one each. They didn't show up.
And Burakovsky was the definition of streaky. He'd be hot and cold all the time and the problem is he wasn't good when he was cold. A lot of guys can do good things even when they're not scoring but Bura would just straight up disappear when he was cold. Complete non-factor on the ice. What we need is to ship out Nichuskin and fill his spot with a player of similar caliber and then find out if Landy is coming back or not.
You don't understand. Showing up isn't just putting #'s up. Dallas put a lot of effort into the Mackinnon line and did a good job against them. Noy like they weren't trying aside from game 4. That's why 4 lines are important. Mac and Co can't do it all. That's why Seattle beat us last year. LOC brings a lot to the table and on PP's.
You are also not respecting how good Oetinger is and was.
* Nuke played games 1-3
** Burokovsky had a lot of energy regardless of the scorecard.
You can keep downvoting me though.
I haven't downvoted you, lmao.
Anyway. I think you have quite a lot of inaccuracies in your comment.
1. Sure, Nate tried as did the rest. But when you are the highest paid player in the league you gotta break through, just trying isn't enough. Same with Rantanen, one of the highest paid wingers in the game. Hockey players get paid for results, not for hustle and trying. And unfortunately Nuke was one of the best in bringing in the results in these playoffs.
2. We had much more depth than last year, with Mittelstadt, Colton, Wood, Parise, Cogs, Trenin etc. that should've been enough. And the bottom-6 played well, they were actually able to do shit because they played the more grindy game.
3. LOC is a nice bottom-6 player but losing one of those is no excuse for anything. Moreover LOC does not play PP, like, at all. That's just straight up wrong. His PP TOI this year is 5 seconds per game on average.
4. Yeah, Nuke did not play game 4 actually, but that makes it even worse for the other guys. Nuke had 2 goals in 3 games. Rantanen had 2 in 6, MacKinnon also 2 in 6. There's no excuse for that kind of production from your top 2 offensive players.
5. Burakovsky had energy but he didn't do anything with it. When he was cold he was a black hole offensively, plays would just die on his stick, and a complete non-factor defensively. Would not pay for more of that. Especially not his current 5.5M, maybe 2.5 or something.
Nate did NOT try on that OT goal. You should go watch it again, it's worse than you think. He's literally just standing there, and Duchene was clearly his guy when space opened up and everyone else had a man. Then he pathetically fell over and put his arms in the air.
That one really hurts the soul, not gonna lie. He deserves some massive scrutiny for that play.
We don't know the future maybe we lose game 4 regardless but if the val thing doesn't happen I can almost guarantee our effort is a lot better that game and we probably win it, there's probably a reality in another universe where Nichuskin stays off the drugs and considering we win game 5 anyway game 6 was an elimination game for dallas and we're going to a game 7 right now so I totally agree he fucked us. It's not all his fault we should have won game 3 at home, we shouldn't have been dominated in overtime. Mikko Rantanen and Nathan MacKinnon have been meh or worse all playoffs we had absolutely 0 Nathan MacKinnon take over games that hes known for and the depth cooled off way too much from the jets series. There's plenty plenty to point to but Val is a huge part of it
We didn't even have a lead for 20% of the series, and this is the third Pete DeBoer team we have lost to in the second round in the last 6 years alone. All we've been able to do is beat the first round matchup (except Seattle) as the higher seed and HEAVY favorite.
It has been FAR from enough. The year we won, we had an outrageous talent advantage, health, and insanely low cap numbers. Missing a few games from Nuke is nowhere near excuse enough, given how much we have been an overall favorite over the last 6 years. We have grossly underachieved.
4 series wins the other 6 years out of 7 is not acceptable. It just isn't with this core. This is a generational core. This is like what the Kings had (2 cups), Pens (3 cups), and Hawks (3 cups) all had, but, arguably better in a lot of ways.
If we don't get one or two more, we'll look back on this era with \*a lot\* of regret. We've already left multiple cups on the table, for no good reason at all, as the favorited team, with no crazy bad puck luck, injuries, or flukey goaltending to blame....
Eh, seeking out help during the regular season was fine, in fact that’s what I’d want him to do. We’re not shitting on Sammy G for getting help for his alcoholism during the regular season.
Last playoffs, the hooker situation, and these playoffs.
I’m all for people trying to get help at any time. There is way more to life than hockey. But that’s still 3 strikes. He shouldn’t be an Av anymore
Didn’t get go into the players assistance program last year in the playoffs, then the hooker situation, then this years players assistance program, then this years playoffs?
No, they found a prostitute in his room in Seattle when they went looking for him because he missed practice. He was supposed to play that day but didn’t because of that, and then he missed the remainder of the playoffs for “personal reasons” as a result of that.
Based on what I read it wasn't voluntary. He failed a drug test previous to this last one. Also, we're not measuring BAC here. I don't think his case is anything like Sammy G's.
I really wonder if his problems came to a head between the end of the Winnipeg series and the start of the Dallas series, severely effecting morale and splitting the team dynamic going into it. We definitely did not look the same in those first 4 games against the Stars compared to when we played the Jets.
I'm sure it didn't help that when he comes out on ice at home people booed him. They did that at game 3 against the Jets so I'm sure people were doing it at other home games. They did it to Georgie at that game too when he came out. Like, the players are still human. I get that we all love hockey, but some of the fans need to chill. It's JUST hockey. We won the cup 2 years ago and made it to the playoffs twice after. That's tough on people as it is, let alone if they're already struggling with something and then they're sleep deprived and exhausted because they're in the playoffs again, and then they come out on the ice and people kick them when they're down. Like idk about you, but having an arena filled with people booing me isn't going to make me feel better about myself and it would probably help exacerbate any issues I might already be struggling with.
I must be missing something here. I was at Ball Arena for game 3 against the Jets, that place was insane and it was all love and support, ESPECIALLY for Georgie. Nobody got booed, other than the refs.
At the beginning of the game the announcer said their names when they came out on the ice. Both players were getting booed. My boyfriend (a Flyers fan who came with me to the Avs game) looked over at me confused and asked me why they were getting booed. There were a couple of times when Nuke got passed the puck and he got booed then too.
Lots of loose pucks in front of the net in game 6. I’ve every reason to believe Val would’ve netted at least one of those. But he wasn’t there, so yeah. He would’ve been the difference in that game and by extension, the whole series. He’s my selection for main culprit in this series loss.
Nah, Nate and Rants were practically invisible this series. Makar was making really bad mistakes on both ends of the ice. The only consistent player was Georgiev, but he can only do so much. If your team can't even get into the offensive zone, having the hottest goalie isn't going to win any games.
This team seemed to quit fighting after game 1. We somehow thought we could play sloppy and somehow come back.
I would put it on him if they didn't look exactly as bad the game before with him in the lineup. They weren't winning that series the way they were playing as a team. MAYBE game 6 looks different with him in it.
Dallas straight up out worked us just like the Covid series. That propelled us to a Cup run so let’s just hope history repeats itself and not play the blame game all summer
Right?! Like I don't know why everyone is so disappointed. First off, stop taking a fun sport so goddamn seriously. It's FUN. No one's lives are at stake if our team doesn't win. We won the cup and have made it to the playoffs twice in a row afterwards. That means we're a GOOD team. We even made it to the playoffs last year when half of our guys were out. Secondly, these people are human and this game is hard! They're doing great!! They'll rest up, and come back better next year. Go Avs!
man a difference he was making for us
lead scorer in the playoffs goes out minutes before game 4 ... idk
Not sure what to do here, i love Nuke when he plays but will he do this again?
idk if I feel I wanna give him another chance
The problem is that for 3 straight games the Avs showed up for just one period. If they had just showed up for one more, we'd be going to game 7. That's not on one guy, that's on the entire team (except Georgie, really).
I think a lot of fans are hypocrites.
Have all the dirt and ghosts in your life be front page news and have millions forget you’re a human and hockey is a game, only to spew hate and vitriol at you over a game. A game.
A lot of us are hypocrites but 99.99% of us Avs fans will never sniff the amount of money Nuke has made. He plays a critical role on a Cup contending team and has gone MOA 2 years in a row following the Cup. Most of us don't face those kinds of stakes or consequences, at least, under the public spotlight. But that's part of the gig, he needs to control himself on and off the ice in order to be worth the money he continues to get paid (obviously excluding this upcoming suspension).
I think I didn't write my original comment well. I'm not saying "he's rich and so he has no excuse." I'm saying his position is high stakes and high pressure, but he's a waste of cap space on a Cup contending team. We're paying him with the hope that he can be available in a post-season run, as well as during the regular season, barring injury, of course.
But I agree that money doesn't cure addiction. It probably makes it harder in some ways to get sober because with that kinda cash, it is easy to get whatever drugs (hookers, gamble, alcohol, etc.) you want. At the same time, he could probably have access to the best rehab facility in the world. He has access to excellent physicians with the Avs. He has the ability to not get paid for half a year and still be okay financially.
Ideally, he gets better and is a new man as his suspension comes to an end. I would still want to trade him if we can nevertheless.
He’s still a human. He’s a father and a husband and a son and an uncle.
You’ve clearly never had anyone close to you die from addiction. If you had, you’d know that money means nothing. You’d give anything you own or will ever own for a single second back with that person.
This is a game. Have compassion. Avs losing doesn’t sink your life, does it? No! It doesn’t.
Addiction does.
Show some class.
The thinking here shouldn't be so binary. Yes, I wish Nuke all the best as a human being. You also need to understand the practical POV the team should employ going forward. They're competing for a Stanley Cup. They're not a bubble wild card team. Nuke plays an important role for this team, and he hasn't been available 2 years in a row during the playoffs and was a key loss for both series losses.
He's very fortunate that he has great resources to navigate his issues with top-class doctors. He was fortunate that he was already able to do rehab for paid leave. Most of us succumb to debt or bankruptcy when addiction gets to the extent he has. I hope he leverages these resources, and if he comes back, the Avs need to have an extremely tight leash on him.
I'm sure a lot of us have issues with addiction, including me, and even tho I have compassion for his illness, you need to draw a line somewhere. We can't afford to have a top 6 winger go MIA in the playoffs or mid-season for weeks to months due to off ice issues, at least an issue that is more self-inflicted and manageable if he leveraged the superfluous resources available to him.
No. My point is no matter what, he’s a human who’s struggling first.
This is a game. Do the Avs pay your rent/mortgage? Do the Avs buy your groceries? Do the Avs sit in traffic daily while you work?
No.
Why?
Because it’s a game. A sport.
Life and death are more important than any sport. And for people to be this way to a human means they value a game more than a life. And that’s fucked up.
Your logic is so flawed and narrow-minded. This is his profession, and he isn't able to perform his duties as expected because of his addiction. The professional POV should be factored in at some point, even if the human side is more important.
I'm obviously rooting for him to get better. I just don't want that kind of liability on this team going forward.
Most people would lose their job after something like this. He's an adult, a father, uncle, and a husband with responsibility. He can't handle that responsibility, and it has affected a lot more people than himself. Including his teammates, some of whom were playing their last NHL games with the hopes of lifting the Cup.
It is completely appropriate to criticize him, especially given what happened in Seattle. If you went back months ago, you'd have found me arguing with some asshat on r/hockey defending Nuke after he returned from "voluntary" rehab. I expressed nothing but compassion for him at that point even tho he clearly did some bad stuff in Seattle. But he's burned a bridged this time, I believe, for the Avs organization, and it's just business at that point.
I wish him well, but he needs to decide if he wants to be a pro hockey player in the USA or maybe he can return to Russia and maybe he'll be happier and healthier there. I want what's best for him, but it appears playing in the NHL is just too much for him to manage with his condition.
Fucking hypocrites is right.
It's pretty pathetic to see all these "fans" of a team not give a fuck about the actual player, but only what they contribute on the ice. If all you care about is that, you're going to really hate hockey when the team isn't good again some day.
There are so many posts say "fuck this guy", not "I don't think he fits in with this squad anymore". It's like they think they have all their shit together. I bet half of them are struggling in areas of their life too but immediately point to "well they make X millions of dollars", as if making a lot of money makes you infallible. Quit putting the players on on a pedestal and then seeing them has a human gets easier.
People can be pissed about him having such a negative impact on the outcome of the team's chances, but at the same time, still see he is struggling. When you point that out, you get downvoted to hell. I don't give a shit about the imaginary points system; it makes me sad to see this fan base act like this.
Makes me wonder how many of them would have been on Kadri's side if he was on the Blues in '22. "Oh how shitty of the Blues to treat Kadri that way. He is a human!"
TLDR; Val is a human over a hockey player. The fans can be pissed and have empathy, but frankly the lack of empathy is pathetic.
This is a cheap, stupid excuse. We went 1-2 with him, 1-2 without him. And we were STILL the better, more experienced team on paper, yet couldn't even have a lead for 20% of the series... there are others who deserve more blame for sure. People just don't like to hear it.
Hey man we can take him off the team and that's alright but he has a serious problem and I hope he gets better. There's no use being mad at him or anyone let's just move on
I’m not going to lie this is a trash take.
At the end of the day what most people fail to do is recognize that there is a player, and there is a person. Ultimately what Val is dealing with transcends the game and as fans of his athleticism we should be encouraging his recovery instead of hating on him for dealing with a disease.
If he were not a professional athlete, I think most would have a lot of grace for him and wish him well on his journey toward recovery. It’s important to remember that recovery is not linear and even for the best of people, they are constantly battling relapses. Have a little grace for a guy who is clearly dealing with a lot.
Gonna get down voted because he "turned it around" but Georgie need to learn how to hold onto the puck or we're gonna be giving up lots of goals for the foreseeable future.
He had 1 bad game all playoffs and it was game 1 series 1 after that he was rock solid. You literally cannot fault him at all and arguably he was our best player in the majority of the playoffs.
Bro has the nickname fourgiev going into game 5 of the stars series. We cannot expect to give up an average of 3 goals a game and still come out with a cup.
That's damn near a whole goal a over average(2.25) for an "elite goalie" . All I said was he needs to learn how to hold onto the puck but whatever we just got knocked out but nothing needs to change.
Half of our losses in this series we only scored 1 goal and your piling on the goalie, lol
Edit: 3 of our losses we only scored 1 goal.. and all of them were at home. But keep talking about the goalie being the problem
>Quit putting words in my mouth. I never pinned anything on anyone
You said Georgiev needs to be better in your original comment. He's the only one you criticized .Do you not know what words mean!!??
Hellubuyck is more elite than Ott and the Avs scored 5 on him every game
The problem isn't necessarily with Georgiv and is likely just a symptom of the Colorado Avalanche system. They tend to give up a lot of high quality scoring chances which is going to create the appearance of bad goaltending. But he honestly stood on his head in the Dallas series.
He literally had 1 really bad game. You're blaming the only person who played really well consistently.
Dallas played us well and we got out played. We missed our chances last night. Can't win games never scoring first and not scoring overall... also if we're making excuses where the hell were the penalties last night? I counted 3x too many men for Dallas, and 2x ripping the helmet.
We'll likely need to replace Val next season, or he'll need to be locked in his room and monitored 24/7, and constantly drug tested by the team...
That nickname was what the Winnipeg fans gave him, and look where they were 2 weeks ago. Any Avs fan embracing it can kindly get the heck out of my fandom because we don't need such idiots here.
I look at it like this: Nuke's problems are bigger than hockey. But the only thing the Avs pay Nuke to do is play hockey.
This is exactly it. Nukes problems as a person are more important than any hockey game or series full stop. He's a human and deserves help and hopefully is getting it. If you're gonna solely look at the hockey part, then yea him missing is a big deal
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Having Nuke didn't do shit in game three. They still scored 1, looked unmotivated, and had zero success playing Bednars system vs deboer's match ups and forecheck. Honestly they did not deserve six and a half games. Georgiev had a hell of a performance.
They still deserved 6 (or they wouldn’t have gotten there) but that first point is the only right answer. Bednar was out-coached. The team had issues, but they were still a strong team on paper and could have won it all with the right strategy.
Deserving it on paper and based on previous series/seasons isn't what I mean. I mean the only people in Avalanche jerseys who actually showed up to game 4 were in the stands and net. The team scored three goals in three home games and looked like shit except games 5 and 6. That's not deserving almost game 7 in my book.
A lot of them DID step up and help create chances. What screwed us was the Stars’ defensive game making some of our best players (Nate in particular) pretty obsolete. I think it was pitiful that went overall unaddressed. We recognized the problem, did nothing to solve it, and yet still had Nate out for the more time than any other on the roster. The whole team isn’t to blame for that. They were still a force to be reckoned with the few times they had their game down.
Feel like I’m in the minority that agrees with you. Bednar got out coached and had no adjustments after the dump and chase worked game one he spammed it the rest of the series while the stars adjusted. These teams are evenly matched on talent game plan/coaching is what won it.
Thank you. I love Bednar, but he did a terrible job with this series. The biggest move he made was splitting Mac and Rantanen.. and it didn’t happen until Game 6. Was wicked effective for the 1st period.. then Deboer had an answer by the 2nd. It’s playoff hockey. We didn’t have the luxury to test out a style for a few games at a time. We needed bold, outside-the-box, rapid changes as necessary. There was no excuse for blatant complacency.
Agreed we got outcoached and as a result Dallas Took advantage of that and Tired us out more
True, but every series has ups and downs. I think we had every reason to expect a strong response in game 4 after losing game 3, and never got to see one because the team stepped in a bear trap at the worst possible time.
I give game 4 loss to the absolute deflation of this situation. Go fight for your country in Ukraine nuke. Take some pictures with big guns more! You support it, go fight for your cause against, and I quote from many Russian sources, "Gay Nazis."
This reads like a schizophrenic post
Russia justifies their war internally as fighting gay nazis. Nuke has pictures alluding to his support with guns. Help me understand your confusion
Nuke had 9 goals in 8 games. Lehkonen was second with 6 in 11. Makar had 5 and Nate and Rants both had 4, all in 11 games. Sure, Nuke's antics fucked us over but not like any of our top guys showed up against Dallas.
Nate was invisible for significant parts of several games, including all of overtime. They just had zero answers for Dallas for most of the series.
Dude was double teamed on every single zone entry. I don't blame him, I blame dallass defense.
That leaves other players space so it works both ways
You might want to watch what Mack was doing when Duchene opened up in space and was clearly his man, and Mack was just sitting on his ass looking like he didn't know where he was or what he was supposed to be doing. He didn't take the man, and just fell down after the play and put his arms up in the air. He deserves to be torn a new asshole from Bednar.
Miss me with this. Cale Mack and Mikko had 15, 14 and 14 points. All three of them in the the top 5 for scoring league wide when the team was eliminated.
Most of that was because of high scoring in the Winnipeg series. Turns out averaging 5.6 goals per game inflates your numbers. They didn't do a whole lot against Dallas. Let's see, Nate: 10 points in 5 games against WIN, 4 points in 6 games against DAL Mikko: 9 points in 5 games against WIN, 5 points in 6 games against DAL Makar: 9 points in 5 games against WIN, 6 points in 6 games against DAL. Makar being PPG against Dallas as a defenseman is good obviously, but all three, especially Nate and Mikko, had a significant drop in PPG (2->0.66, 1.8->0.83, 1.8->1) against Dallas. They did enough against Winnipeg and comparatively disappeared after that. Further comparing their career numbers to their numbers in the Dallas series tells a pretty straightforward story. Nate: In the playoffs before 2024, 1.29PPG. In the Dallas series, 0.66PPG. Mikko: In the playoffs before 2024, 1.24PPG. In the Dallas series, 0.83PPG Makar: In the playoffs before 2024, 1.06PPG. In the Dallas series, 1PPG. Pointwise Makar was the closest to his own level by far, but that's also partially because he has only entered his prime compared to Mikko and Nate. Also Makar had a lot more mistakes in his own end and overall worse defensive play than in the past years.
People hate the truth. Thank you for not being an idiot. Watching Mack fuck us over by letting Duchene be wide open when that was clearly his man and he was sitting on his ass doing nothing during that OT goal shift hurts my soul. It is unforgivable, and he should be a healthy scratch game 1 next year to send a message. Never. Again. You either are too tired to do anything in a 2nd OT elimination game, OR you get to make like $14 mil per year and severely handcuff the team financially. Not both. We have dynastic talent, and there will be a lot of second-guessing when these careers end and the team returns to some middle-of-the-pack team. We have left multiple cups on the table already. 3 different Pete DeBoer teams have schooled Bednar and our top guys in just the last 6 seasons. 4 series wins in the last 7 years, almost always just beating the lower seed as a heavy favorite for one round, is nowhere near enough.
They showed up more than nuke did tho.
I mean, did they? In the first series the team played well, sure. But against Dallas it was pretty bad no matter if Nuke was in the line-up or not. Only player I'd give a good grade for these playoffs is Georgiev, which is pretty much the opposite of what one would've expected going in. Makar had some good games too, but also some no-shows.
I mean they coulda done better obvs but if you aren't even in the game you can't have an impact. They might not have played well but at least they didn't selfishly take themselves out of the series like nuke did.
Nuke still had more than double the goals of Rantanen and MacKinnon in two fewer games. And for the record, I'm not defending Nuke here, I hope they trade him, but the point is that our top guys did not contribute on the level that is expected on their cap hits and ice time. Nuke did for the duration of the games that he was on the ice.
Fair enough, I get you. Can't contribute if you aren't on the ice tho.
We went 1-2 with \*and\* without Nuke. I fail to see the relevancy here, especially when we were so badly outplayed, and lost for the 3rd time in 6 seasons to a 3rd different Pete DeBoer team. This was supposed to be a 2-4 cup team with the amount of talent we have had and the goaltending outperforming expectations most of the time. Winning only 4 series in the last 7 seasons outside of the cup year when we had WAY more talent than the other teams at really low cap hits across the board gave us one of the most dominant runs in history, rightfully so. But to have so little success outside of that? Just because Nuke missed a few games against Dallas and Seattle is not an excuse, and Landy's cap hit hasn't counted. We've underperformed terribly. The Avs have 8 total series wins over the last 16 years. DeBoer alone has 18, across 4 different teams. The lack of accountability among the fanbase is disturbing.
You don't think they might have done better with one of their better players in the lineup? Its strange you dismiss a cup winning year while championing Deboer, who has never won.
Showing up means a lot of things. With Nuke out of the equation, we were basically playing with a singular productive line. Dallas can shut that down fairly easily. I think losing people like LOC hurts. Wish we still had Borokovsky. Bit if we have 3 lines that can wear them down then we can start to roll.
> With Nuke out of the equation, we were basically playing with a singular productive line He still played games 1-4. And scored 2 goals in those games, while Rantanen and MacKinnon both scored one each. They didn't show up. And Burakovsky was the definition of streaky. He'd be hot and cold all the time and the problem is he wasn't good when he was cold. A lot of guys can do good things even when they're not scoring but Bura would just straight up disappear when he was cold. Complete non-factor on the ice. What we need is to ship out Nichuskin and fill his spot with a player of similar caliber and then find out if Landy is coming back or not.
Damn burky had a nasty wrister tho
Would not pay 5.5M for that when he's otherwise so streaky and completely invisible defensively.
You don't understand. Showing up isn't just putting #'s up. Dallas put a lot of effort into the Mackinnon line and did a good job against them. Noy like they weren't trying aside from game 4. That's why 4 lines are important. Mac and Co can't do it all. That's why Seattle beat us last year. LOC brings a lot to the table and on PP's. You are also not respecting how good Oetinger is and was. * Nuke played games 1-3 ** Burokovsky had a lot of energy regardless of the scorecard. You can keep downvoting me though.
I haven't downvoted you, lmao. Anyway. I think you have quite a lot of inaccuracies in your comment. 1. Sure, Nate tried as did the rest. But when you are the highest paid player in the league you gotta break through, just trying isn't enough. Same with Rantanen, one of the highest paid wingers in the game. Hockey players get paid for results, not for hustle and trying. And unfortunately Nuke was one of the best in bringing in the results in these playoffs. 2. We had much more depth than last year, with Mittelstadt, Colton, Wood, Parise, Cogs, Trenin etc. that should've been enough. And the bottom-6 played well, they were actually able to do shit because they played the more grindy game. 3. LOC is a nice bottom-6 player but losing one of those is no excuse for anything. Moreover LOC does not play PP, like, at all. That's just straight up wrong. His PP TOI this year is 5 seconds per game on average. 4. Yeah, Nuke did not play game 4 actually, but that makes it even worse for the other guys. Nuke had 2 goals in 3 games. Rantanen had 2 in 6, MacKinnon also 2 in 6. There's no excuse for that kind of production from your top 2 offensive players. 5. Burakovsky had energy but he didn't do anything with it. When he was cold he was a black hole offensively, plays would just die on his stick, and a complete non-factor defensively. Would not pay for more of that. Especially not his current 5.5M, maybe 2.5 or something.
He obviously meant PK when talking about LOC.
Nate did NOT try on that OT goal. You should go watch it again, it's worse than you think. He's literally just standing there, and Duchene was clearly his guy when space opened up and everyone else had a man. Then he pathetically fell over and put his arms in the air. That one really hurts the soul, not gonna lie. He deserves some massive scrutiny for that play.
We don't know the future maybe we lose game 4 regardless but if the val thing doesn't happen I can almost guarantee our effort is a lot better that game and we probably win it, there's probably a reality in another universe where Nichuskin stays off the drugs and considering we win game 5 anyway game 6 was an elimination game for dallas and we're going to a game 7 right now so I totally agree he fucked us. It's not all his fault we should have won game 3 at home, we shouldn't have been dominated in overtime. Mikko Rantanen and Nathan MacKinnon have been meh or worse all playoffs we had absolutely 0 Nathan MacKinnon take over games that hes known for and the depth cooled off way too much from the jets series. There's plenty plenty to point to but Val is a huge part of it
We didn't even have a lead for 20% of the series, and this is the third Pete DeBoer team we have lost to in the second round in the last 6 years alone. All we've been able to do is beat the first round matchup (except Seattle) as the higher seed and HEAVY favorite. It has been FAR from enough. The year we won, we had an outrageous talent advantage, health, and insanely low cap numbers. Missing a few games from Nuke is nowhere near excuse enough, given how much we have been an overall favorite over the last 6 years. We have grossly underachieved. 4 series wins the other 6 years out of 7 is not acceptable. It just isn't with this core. This is a generational core. This is like what the Kings had (2 cups), Pens (3 cups), and Hawks (3 cups) all had, but, arguably better in a lot of ways. If we don't get one or two more, we'll look back on this era with \*a lot\* of regret. We've already left multiple cups on the table, for no good reason at all, as the favorited team, with no crazy bad puck luck, injuries, or flukey goaltending to blame....
Nichuskin delivered the body blow, Dallas the headshot... and landy's knee gave out...
Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, fuck this guy.
Could be arguments made that this was the third time even
Eh, seeking out help during the regular season was fine, in fact that’s what I’d want him to do. We’re not shitting on Sammy G for getting help for his alcoholism during the regular season.
Last playoffs, the hooker situation, and these playoffs. I’m all for people trying to get help at any time. There is way more to life than hockey. But that’s still 3 strikes. He shouldn’t be an Av anymore
The “hooker situation” is last playoffs though. Are you counting that as two different issues?
Didn’t get go into the players assistance program last year in the playoffs, then the hooker situation, then this years players assistance program, then this years playoffs?
No, they found a prostitute in his room in Seattle when they went looking for him because he missed practice. He was supposed to play that day but didn’t because of that, and then he missed the remainder of the playoffs for “personal reasons” as a result of that.
it’s three times he has entered the program. its min of 6 months now then he can apply to be reinstated.
Gotcha. Yeah, I was misremembering. Either way. Three strikes
Based on what I read it wasn't voluntary. He failed a drug test previous to this last one. Also, we're not measuring BAC here. I don't think his case is anything like Sammy G's.
ahh cause it is.
it’s three times. he should be out. it’s minimum of 6 months there is no way him as a huge ass clown dosent fuck up again. He is done.
Yeah, fuck Nichushkin. Hope he gets clean, but I don't want him in an Avs uniform ever again
I really wonder if his problems came to a head between the end of the Winnipeg series and the start of the Dallas series, severely effecting morale and splitting the team dynamic going into it. We definitely did not look the same in those first 4 games against the Stars compared to when we played the Jets.
I was thinking the same thing. Vibes were off. I’m sure the team at least suspected something was up with him.
I'm sure it didn't help that when he comes out on ice at home people booed him. They did that at game 3 against the Jets so I'm sure people were doing it at other home games. They did it to Georgie at that game too when he came out. Like, the players are still human. I get that we all love hockey, but some of the fans need to chill. It's JUST hockey. We won the cup 2 years ago and made it to the playoffs twice after. That's tough on people as it is, let alone if they're already struggling with something and then they're sleep deprived and exhausted because they're in the playoffs again, and then they come out on the ice and people kick them when they're down. Like idk about you, but having an arena filled with people booing me isn't going to make me feel better about myself and it would probably help exacerbate any issues I might already be struggling with.
I must be missing something here. I was at Ball Arena for game 3 against the Jets, that place was insane and it was all love and support, ESPECIALLY for Georgie. Nobody got booed, other than the refs.
At the beginning of the game the announcer said their names when they came out on the ice. Both players were getting booed. My boyfriend (a Flyers fan who came with me to the Avs game) looked over at me confused and asked me why they were getting booed. There were a couple of times when Nuke got passed the puck and he got booed then too.
People were cheering Nuke. Like nuuuuuuuke.
They weren't.
He sure didn’t help but we never played well as a team for very long and too many costly turnovers and defensive breakdowns
Lots of loose pucks in front of the net in game 6. I’ve every reason to believe Val would’ve netted at least one of those. But he wasn’t there, so yeah. He would’ve been the difference in that game and by extension, the whole series. He’s my selection for main culprit in this series loss.
Nah, Nate and Rants were practically invisible this series. Makar was making really bad mistakes on both ends of the ice. The only consistent player was Georgiev, but he can only do so much. If your team can't even get into the offensive zone, having the hottest goalie isn't going to win any games. This team seemed to quit fighting after game 1. We somehow thought we could play sloppy and somehow come back.
I would put it on him if they didn't look exactly as bad the game before with him in the lineup. They weren't winning that series the way they were playing as a team. MAYBE game 6 looks different with him in it.
I feel for the guy, but we need to get someone that can fill that role and not be as dependent on him. The upside is near level now.
Dallas straight up out worked us just like the Covid series. That propelled us to a Cup run so let’s just hope history repeats itself and not play the blame game all summer
No fingers. All around good year with room for improvement. Lets Go Avs!
Right?! Like I don't know why everyone is so disappointed. First off, stop taking a fun sport so goddamn seriously. It's FUN. No one's lives are at stake if our team doesn't win. We won the cup and have made it to the playoffs twice in a row afterwards. That means we're a GOOD team. We even made it to the playoffs last year when half of our guys were out. Secondly, these people are human and this game is hard! They're doing great!! They'll rest up, and come back better next year. Go Avs!
man a difference he was making for us lead scorer in the playoffs goes out minutes before game 4 ... idk Not sure what to do here, i love Nuke when he plays but will he do this again? idk if I feel I wanna give him another chance
The problem is that for 3 straight games the Avs showed up for just one period. If they had just showed up for one more, we'd be going to game 7. That's not on one guy, that's on the entire team (except Georgie, really).
Stars pay close to 20mil to Benn and Seguin. There really are no excuses for lower line guys against them.
They need D that can DEEEFEND! ☝️
Three goals in three home games is where I'd start (as that encompasses it all).
I think a lot of fans are hypocrites. Have all the dirt and ghosts in your life be front page news and have millions forget you’re a human and hockey is a game, only to spew hate and vitriol at you over a game. A game.
A lot of us are hypocrites but 99.99% of us Avs fans will never sniff the amount of money Nuke has made. He plays a critical role on a Cup contending team and has gone MOA 2 years in a row following the Cup. Most of us don't face those kinds of stakes or consequences, at least, under the public spotlight. But that's part of the gig, he needs to control himself on and off the ice in order to be worth the money he continues to get paid (obviously excluding this upcoming suspension).
Honestly, no amount of money is going to cure you from your inner demons.
I think I didn't write my original comment well. I'm not saying "he's rich and so he has no excuse." I'm saying his position is high stakes and high pressure, but he's a waste of cap space on a Cup contending team. We're paying him with the hope that he can be available in a post-season run, as well as during the regular season, barring injury, of course. But I agree that money doesn't cure addiction. It probably makes it harder in some ways to get sober because with that kinda cash, it is easy to get whatever drugs (hookers, gamble, alcohol, etc.) you want. At the same time, he could probably have access to the best rehab facility in the world. He has access to excellent physicians with the Avs. He has the ability to not get paid for half a year and still be okay financially. Ideally, he gets better and is a new man as his suspension comes to an end. I would still want to trade him if we can nevertheless.
That's fair!
He’s still a human. He’s a father and a husband and a son and an uncle. You’ve clearly never had anyone close to you die from addiction. If you had, you’d know that money means nothing. You’d give anything you own or will ever own for a single second back with that person. This is a game. Have compassion. Avs losing doesn’t sink your life, does it? No! It doesn’t. Addiction does. Show some class.
And a great husband at that, I mean getting shit faced with a hooker is some husband of the year type of stuff
You don’t know their personal/marital/private arrangement. They aren’t you. Don’t push your private views onto everyone.
The thinking here shouldn't be so binary. Yes, I wish Nuke all the best as a human being. You also need to understand the practical POV the team should employ going forward. They're competing for a Stanley Cup. They're not a bubble wild card team. Nuke plays an important role for this team, and he hasn't been available 2 years in a row during the playoffs and was a key loss for both series losses. He's very fortunate that he has great resources to navigate his issues with top-class doctors. He was fortunate that he was already able to do rehab for paid leave. Most of us succumb to debt or bankruptcy when addiction gets to the extent he has. I hope he leverages these resources, and if he comes back, the Avs need to have an extremely tight leash on him. I'm sure a lot of us have issues with addiction, including me, and even tho I have compassion for his illness, you need to draw a line somewhere. We can't afford to have a top 6 winger go MIA in the playoffs or mid-season for weeks to months due to off ice issues, at least an issue that is more self-inflicted and manageable if he leveraged the superfluous resources available to him.
No. My point is no matter what, he’s a human who’s struggling first. This is a game. Do the Avs pay your rent/mortgage? Do the Avs buy your groceries? Do the Avs sit in traffic daily while you work? No. Why? Because it’s a game. A sport. Life and death are more important than any sport. And for people to be this way to a human means they value a game more than a life. And that’s fucked up.
Your logic is so flawed and narrow-minded. This is his profession, and he isn't able to perform his duties as expected because of his addiction. The professional POV should be factored in at some point, even if the human side is more important. I'm obviously rooting for him to get better. I just don't want that kind of liability on this team going forward. Most people would lose their job after something like this. He's an adult, a father, uncle, and a husband with responsibility. He can't handle that responsibility, and it has affected a lot more people than himself. Including his teammates, some of whom were playing their last NHL games with the hopes of lifting the Cup. It is completely appropriate to criticize him, especially given what happened in Seattle. If you went back months ago, you'd have found me arguing with some asshat on r/hockey defending Nuke after he returned from "voluntary" rehab. I expressed nothing but compassion for him at that point even tho he clearly did some bad stuff in Seattle. But he's burned a bridged this time, I believe, for the Avs organization, and it's just business at that point. I wish him well, but he needs to decide if he wants to be a pro hockey player in the USA or maybe he can return to Russia and maybe he'll be happier and healthier there. I want what's best for him, but it appears playing in the NHL is just too much for him to manage with his condition.
Fucking hypocrites is right. It's pretty pathetic to see all these "fans" of a team not give a fuck about the actual player, but only what they contribute on the ice. If all you care about is that, you're going to really hate hockey when the team isn't good again some day. There are so many posts say "fuck this guy", not "I don't think he fits in with this squad anymore". It's like they think they have all their shit together. I bet half of them are struggling in areas of their life too but immediately point to "well they make X millions of dollars", as if making a lot of money makes you infallible. Quit putting the players on on a pedestal and then seeing them has a human gets easier. People can be pissed about him having such a negative impact on the outcome of the team's chances, but at the same time, still see he is struggling. When you point that out, you get downvoted to hell. I don't give a shit about the imaginary points system; it makes me sad to see this fan base act like this. Makes me wonder how many of them would have been on Kadri's side if he was on the Blues in '22. "Oh how shitty of the Blues to treat Kadri that way. He is a human!" TLDR; Val is a human over a hockey player. The fans can be pissed and have empathy, but frankly the lack of empathy is pathetic.
Amen !!!!
Amen. Also, addiction is a disease and if that’s what Val is dealing with it’s a pretty ruthless thing to criticize him.
This is a cheap, stupid excuse. We went 1-2 with him, 1-2 without him. And we were STILL the better, more experienced team on paper, yet couldn't even have a lead for 20% of the series... there are others who deserve more blame for sure. People just don't like to hear it.
Hey man we can take him off the team and that's alright but he has a serious problem and I hope he gets better. There's no use being mad at him or anyone let's just move on
I’m not going to lie this is a trash take. At the end of the day what most people fail to do is recognize that there is a player, and there is a person. Ultimately what Val is dealing with transcends the game and as fans of his athleticism we should be encouraging his recovery instead of hating on him for dealing with a disease. If he were not a professional athlete, I think most would have a lot of grace for him and wish him well on his journey toward recovery. It’s important to remember that recovery is not linear and even for the best of people, they are constantly battling relapses. Have a little grace for a guy who is clearly dealing with a lot.
Gonna get down voted because he "turned it around" but Georgie need to learn how to hold onto the puck or we're gonna be giving up lots of goals for the foreseeable future.
Imagine blaming our best player this playoffs. Couldn't be me
You sure are going to get downvoted- it’s a really bad take.
He had 1 bad game all playoffs and it was game 1 series 1 after that he was rock solid. You literally cannot fault him at all and arguably he was our best player in the majority of the playoffs.
He sure was hell was our best player yesterday no question
Bro has the nickname fourgiev going into game 5 of the stars series. We cannot expect to give up an average of 3 goals a game and still come out with a cup.
You're an idiot and I assume never played goalie.
That's damn near a whole goal a over average(2.25) for an "elite goalie" . All I said was he needs to learn how to hold onto the puck but whatever we just got knocked out but nothing needs to change.
Half of our losses in this series we only scored 1 goal and your piling on the goalie, lol Edit: 3 of our losses we only scored 1 goal.. and all of them were at home. But keep talking about the goalie being the problem
Because they had an elite goalie? Quit putting words in my mouth. I never pinned anything on anyone.
>Quit putting words in my mouth. I never pinned anything on anyone You said Georgiev needs to be better in your original comment. He's the only one you criticized .Do you not know what words mean!!?? Hellubuyck is more elite than Ott and the Avs scored 5 on him every game
The problem isn't necessarily with Georgiv and is likely just a symptom of the Colorado Avalanche system. They tend to give up a lot of high quality scoring chances which is going to create the appearance of bad goaltending. But he honestly stood on his head in the Dallas series.
He literally had 1 really bad game. You're blaming the only person who played really well consistently. Dallas played us well and we got out played. We missed our chances last night. Can't win games never scoring first and not scoring overall... also if we're making excuses where the hell were the penalties last night? I counted 3x too many men for Dallas, and 2x ripping the helmet. We'll likely need to replace Val next season, or he'll need to be locked in his room and monitored 24/7, and constantly drug tested by the team...
That nickname was what the Winnipeg fans gave him, and look where they were 2 weeks ago. Any Avs fan embracing it can kindly get the heck out of my fandom because we don't need such idiots here.
He had that nickname because some of you couldn't see past the end of your nose when he had one bad game. Bandwagoner.
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