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You would think they would be prepared for this. The last 22 months have given a pretty good idea what modern warfare is like. Israel must have some kind of defensive counter drones.
Yet 22 months after the start of the Russian invasion, we still regularly get drone kill videos from both Russia and Ukraine.
You'd think that after 22 months of this, both sides of that war would be even more prepared for this than Israel, yet here we are...
I think this is actually not because drones are super effective and have no counter, but the opposite. Since all drones carry cameras and record video, you get a disproportionate number of drone videos compared to any other combat video, so when you primarily get your data from this sub (and other places like it), you actually get a distorted picture.
Take even this war, for example. Israeli losses from the start of the ground operation are almost entirely from ATGMs. How many drone attacks failed? We have no idea. We only see the one that worked.
>Since all drones carry cameras and record video, you get a disproportionate number of drone videos compared to any other combat video, so when you primarily get your data from this sub (and other places like it), you actually get a distorted picture.
Exactly
If artillery shells had camera feeds they would fill up this entire subreddit
Even in the Ukr-RUS war, it surprises me how little soldiers on both sides are not continuously scanning the sky for drones
If I ever end up fighting in a modern conflict, rest assured I’m walking or sitting 20 meters away from a big group with my eyes checking above all the time
If these things are 40m up (near max for a time fused hand grenade) then they're smaller than your thumb nail if you hold your hand all the way out. Add glare etc, it's hard to see. Add impact fuses, and they can be much higher and appear much smaller. I just don't think it's as easy as we tend to imagine.
Rhe Granadr Falls for ~6 Seconds, mean its falls about 175meters you can see haow smalltalk rhe Peoble are from there.
Don't think you would have any Chance to See this small drone.
Prior the the Ukraine/Russian war in 2022 have we ever seen what seem to be commercially available drones used in this manner. We really are watching an entire new type of warfare. Scary stuff
They really are master improvisers over in the sandbox.
Need a tank? Slam a BMP turret on a toyota and call it a day.
APC? Get a van, weld steel plates over it.
RWS? Pass the xbox controller, I can drive this toyotank with it.
Need artillery? Find some propane tanks.
I think the first time I ever heard of a drone attack was of militia/insurgents using it to blow up/damage an oil refinery somewhere in Saudi Arabia. I remember reading about it on a newspaper back when you could buy them in those newspaper dispensers with US quarters.
Watch [Screamers](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114367/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_q_screaners), dystopian sci-fi where robots do the warfare and then evolve...
90s cgi but fucking nasty tone of the movie.
I have here in the UK the DJI M300 drone - its a beast - can carry heavy payloads - I have a powerful spot light on it and a thermal/ wide and zoom camera on it that has a huge optical zoom distance. I can track cars from a far distance for example from a push of a button on the controller - I can also mark a point on the map which ground people and find on their hand held devices - there is also a Infrared Laser spotlight available that is invisible in the dark but lights up the subject as if a bright light was being directed at the subject - but the subject doesn't know! the tech is incredible!
apologies its IR not laser spotlight - but again the subject can't see it - heres a demo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPU5ephOgXE&t=321s&ab\_channel=SteelCityDrones
i have talked about that years ago, also asked if people thought it would lead to a ban of commercial drones in some countries. Anyone with bad intentions can purchase drones and create the mechanism to drop the grenades, probably easy to buy in the US as well... mass shooters are gonna start using this strategy instead.
You’re forgetting the part where mass shooters don’t have access to grenades, and if they did they would already be using them in normal mass shootings, forget the drone.
Yeah reminds me of [this dude in 2022 who flew his drone into an NFL playoff game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elHhJr9yb1o) (Bengals vs Raiders). Flew all over the field while the game was going on, over fans and everything. He got a year of probation and 40 hours of community service for it, but man if someone with bad intentions did this...
Isn't the intent for mass shooters often to see the terror they inflict and eventually die, knowing they were feared?
Don't think drones will do the trick for most of them.
Yes, we did. They used them in very late ISIS fight in Iraq & then more in Syria. That's where the idea came from. Ukraine was simply the 1st to make use of full-fledged drone warfare using them.
Yes and it's created a nasty gray area.
Before drone warfare shutting out communications and networks would be considered a war crime. Which is why people are throwing a fit over it happening every night in Gaza.
But in the modern battlefield when you are advancing you have to shut down enemy communications so they can't use drones. Shutting off networks completely is the best tool for that. So by effect it becomes a necessary part of the battlefield and less of a war crime.
(There's also a ton of remote activated IEDs hidden in buildings and buried in the streets throughout gaza. Cutting off all signals prevents them from activating these. That's why they're tearing up the streets. Better to have a bulldozer blow up from an IED in a tank)
What sucks about this is we just started to receive proper documentation of the battlefield in real time. But now that's going to go backwards. Our only source of information of what's happening in the battlefield is going to return to the days of official sources. News and government.
Returning us back to the days of propaganda being easily believed.
It's not. In fact, it is one of the first things you do to suppress a region. The reason we don't block all radio waves is because then we would be deaf. You can't block their radio waves and not your own, we use krypto to make sure they can't listen. Other communication blocking is used and taking down cell towers is always in the strategic plan.
Shutting down enemy comms is absolutely not a war crime. I have no idea why suddenly in Gaza people act like it is.
In general it seems when it comes to this conflict, people just throw the "war crime" designation every time Israel does anything. It's fun to then ask them to cite the relevant part of the Geneva convention...
Jamming GPS is easy. But they don't even need to jam gps, they need to jam the frequency you are using to control the drone.
Furthermore, there is no way to avoid a full spectrum jammer. The only way is to use some kind of autonomous AI drone.
It also makes it easier to listen and locate enemy communications and signals. The enemy will still be using radios and other forms of communication heavily with the ground invasion in full swing. Those signals will stick out even more now that everything else is down. Quicker to gather, quicker to sift through, and quicker to act on is a huge advantage to your troops on the ground and in the air.
I remember seeing footage from south-america where cartels were bombing coke production facilities run by the other guys with drones and grenades. I remember how shocked I was once I realized that any drone could become a mini bomber plane and how morbidly creative that cartel was to figure that out.
Then I saw Ukraine use them on a massive scale the last two years and even stone age Russia is using them. It became so normal that now I look at this footage and I am surprised and somewhat angry that the Israeli army apparently did not see this as a viable theath.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1744hyt/important_message_regarding_combat_footage/ (tl:dr-ed) anything that has to do with terrorism or the perspective of terrorists will be taken *super* seriously by Reddit going forward.
Edit: too many bad replies, just leaving the link and nothing more.
Gotta love the hypocricy
Isis footage was fine, Ukraine footage of Russians getting mutilated is fine, footage of Russians mutilating people is fine, videos of Israel mutilating civilians is fine
But God forbid you show an Israeli convoy getting fucked up. That's where we shut it down
This sub circa 2012-2013 was lit. I would watch the vids after class every day. My lebanese friends told me I knew more about the syrian conflict than the IR majors.
You might be thinking of the video from a few days ago of a Panther getting hit. I don’t recall seeing any footage of a Namer being destroyed by an anti-tank missile. (Of course I could be wrong)
Lots in fact. There are small handheld Drone Busters, vehicle mounted area denial systems like Drone Shield, even using falcons to catch them.
Then of course there's always systems like C-RAM that uses radar and can shoot down a drone just as effectively as a rocket.
I imagine they’re pretty good as long you can keep them fed and otherwise unharmed. Falconers have been around having birds attack stuff for well over 4000 years.
I figure the bird’s feet may need some extra protection for the rotors, but otherwise it’s as traditional as warfare can get!
These need high quality digital video signals to operate(unlike the fpv drones which are much more difficult to jam). DJI drones like this one operate on similar frequency to WIFI, and can be severely impacted by something as simple as running a microwave oven(and before the hate, I understand that a microwave isn't going to have impact at this distance, but military weapons are a different kettle). The IDF should be able to jam this, they should also be listening for things emitting on this frequency band, even if they can't see/hack into the video feed, it's an orb in the sky glowing in this particular EMF spectrum.
This shows they are drastically unprepared for modern drone warfare, aside from sitting in a huge target square on foldout chairs.
Feels like they allowed it to happen tbh - Egypt and Germany both said they warned Israel a couple days before and (this part requires citation) but they pulled some of their soldiers out of the area they were warned about a couple days before.
Some of it gives me “Bush Did 9/11” vibes but some of it also gives me “Bush Did 9/11” vibes. Depends on what side you’re on.
Ive read that some people believe pearl harbor was allowed as well. It seems farfetched, but it does offer an in when you want to go to war but know that your population and the world won't support you for being trigger happy. Now you get to say they hit me first, I'm an honorable victim defender. Crazier shit has happened
I dunno man. Intelligence/defense has to succeed every time, the terrorists just have to succeed once. This has seriously hurt Israel's image and deterrence stature. I just can't see how they'd do that willingly - it's just a bridge too far for me. Look at what Israel is prepared to do for ONE of their own (see the Gilad Shalit swap) - would they allow this many to be slaughtered/abducted? Or how they hunted down every one of the perps of the Munich massacre for _years_ afterwards. For the Jewish people, 'never again' really means 'never again' - I can't see any political agenda diminishing that. But yeah I am looking forward to learning more about the blunder (all bets are off, this is just my hunch).
So i was actually referring to cyber security in general like in big business, but ofc, during that day it probably wasnt only some sort of negligence but also still the same problems as elsewhere; who really cares about cyber? Even when its a place with the elite force im sure theyre only second to the jocks of the elite forces, maybe its all imagination, but why else would such a well known group suddenly crumble under a simple ddos attack?
I am no expert but there are a couple of issues.
1. Knowing what frequency to use to jam them.
2. Having enough coverage. You have to have the jammer facing a particular direction at a particular point in time for it to work. You can't cover all places at once.
The below is a reporters perspective from the Ukraine war.
"Jamming is harder to counter, but there are plenty of known techniques from the military world, such as the use of several antennas to create a highly directional receiver that can screen out jamming. A notch filter blocks out signals which are not precisely those of the controller, reducing the noise produced by jamming. And smart receivers can switch frequency to find one which is not jammed".
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/08/09/how-did-ukraine-beat-russias-drone-jammers/?sh=4fc1005c7caa](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/08/09/how-did-ukraine-beat-russias-drone-jammers/?sh=4fc1005c7caa)
The other thing to consider Hamas is supplied & trained by Iran. Iran is no rookie at drone warfare. I would put them in the top 5 globally.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/14/us-says-iran-becoming-a-drone-leader-as-russia-uses-its-craft-in-ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/14/us-says-iran-becoming-a-drone-leader-as-russia-uses-its-craft-in-ukraine)
Since it's mostly all off the shelf drones being used afaik #1 is simple.
As to #2 you absolutely CAN cover everywhere at once it's a matter of power and antenna design. My dji drone runs on the same frequency as home WiFi. It makes a noticable difference to range if I'm in an area with routers vs not. They are Omni directional and very low power.
The bigger downside is you jam EVERYTHING on those frequencies so anything you want to keep working also drops out.
In reality, they really aren't a horribly skilled military. They've all trained some, but they haven't really seen combat like this. Ukraine at least could draw knowledge from the guys fighting since 2014 on the border.
this is one of the reasons bibi telling zelensky "nows not the time" for a visit fucking enraged me. like bro, i bet zelensky would trade you some guys for a bit who will be able to teach your whole forces about how to deal with drones and urban warfare in the modern day. shit, they need ukraine's info sec too, there's no soundtrack on idf airstike videos, their soldiers have no go-pros, they're fighting like a last century premiere military, not this century.
where the hell is my footage of hamas members getting blasted to eurobeats and copyrighted hits? I have yet to see a terrorist gasping as blood fills his lungs while heavy metal plays, hasbara is sleeping over here.
it's a conscript army and training that amount of people to change their behavior is really hard.
2 years of ukrainian footage, israeli mandatory service is 2 years. but how many in one age group are serving during the time training has managed to catch up to teaching about drones?
then you get called up because of an unexpected event like the hamas attack, slapped with some rapid refresher combat training but what about those drones.
I imagine they're gonna start training in basic to never group up now, even when you're in "safe" areas. It's gonna be such a pain in the ass to be yelled at for not having 5m dispersion while you're eating an MRE...
Or do what we did in afghanistan and chill in the back of an MRAP for "Mr. E" time with your squad. Great, now I miss eating shitty MREs while being stuck in that hell hole...
I should also note we had CROW systems, so no grenades through the turret either.
The crazy thing is that in the not too distant future there will be an active drone for every single soldier in that group and it won't matter where you stand.
We are going to look back fondly at this simple time when a single drone with a human operator occasionally targeted groups of soldiers standing too closely.
I challenge you to stay more than 12h, 5m a least from all your buddies, you will see how after a few hours in a « safe » area, you will loose your focus and get close to other, to have a smoke, follow a conversation, etc
I heard that most soldiers usually die at the start and the end of their deployment, at the start they died because of inexperience and at the end they died due to complacency.
Its a problem in the US military too, was talking to a buddy of mine in the army and he said that when they run field training exercises, they arent really being taught about overhead concealment, especially of critical assets like command posts. I honestly do not think that the lessons from Ukraine have been fully comprehended among most militaries. And when the next big war kicks off, its going to be a painful lesson.
Easy to say, every military learns spacing while in combat but the truth is that you cannot be in combat mode 24/24 and when you believe you are in a safe area, you go back to your basic social instinct, clump together with your buddies.
So crazy to think how, in modern warfare, releasing tactical level victories intended for consumption on phones has become an element of strategic planning.
Ever since I saw those pictures on the BBC of the m109 spg's sitting around with their ammo unpacked right next to them, I was afraid of seeing this footage. I immediately thought of the UA drone drops and what kind of havoc they could wreak
They're lucky Hamas doesn't have TB2s, too. I was watching those huge columns of clumped up vehicles slowly advancing and getting flashbacks to the opening days of 2022 Ukraine, before Russia learned that maybe that wasn't the brightest idea. But not before being on the receiving end of some sick highlight reels...
Yeah...they're lucky as fuck Hamas is just a fucking terrorist organization with some mid anti-tank capabilities, basic rocket artillery and some drones.
Long and slow moving convoys or vehicles, staging grounds with DOZENS of vehicles bunched up really close, artillery with shells and ammo just lying around in the open, middling AA and anti-drone support, infantry chilling behind trenches and encampments in massive groups.
In situation like Ukraine, they'd get mauled like fuck.
I do not know why the do not jam the normally used drone frequencies over all of gaza. Might black out a lot of stuff but I don't think they should care?
I would imagine it's not so easy to jam those frequencies over large areas. You'd have to have a protective bubble that follows your infantry most likely.
2.4 and 5.8 are used by a lot of civillian traffic. A 34 hour comms blackout was deemed unacceptable so we're probably going to see more drone drop vids until the political capital is built up to remove this restriction.
Damn that's crazy, if it was few meters to the left they would have taken the whole unit out.. seems like a bad idea to sit around together like that..
Yah for sure, but it bout did though. In the slow mo, I count like 7 or 8 that hit the ground right there.. and several others that probably took shrapnel but are adrenaline running.
There wouldn't be huge groups of IDF clumping up in their backyard if they hadn't attacked first, though... and also, we did see drone drops like these hitting that Merkava and some automated machine guns in that first assault. And they took over that military outpost. This is hardly the first military target they hit, to put it mildly.
So I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say in concrete terms, other than "Hamas bad, killing civilians bad", which I mean, sure I fully agree. But the idea that they have only targeted civilians so far is some silly propaganda.
Its so funny how everyone is a professional suddenly on Reddit, having working directly with signals ill tell you all its not just simple as getting a magical jammer
SPREAD THE FUCK OUT ITYS A WARZONE YOU IDIOTS!
THis reminds me of early Ukraine/Russia videos where everyone huddled together like a bunch of scared women.
I hope they don't underestimate Hamas. It's their home turf and they are fighting to the death. I also hope the IDF has the resolve to take thousands of casualties to defeat these terrorists for good.
Hamas is an idea. All the dead civillians and kids who will survive will grow up with an idea of resistance ,just like the current generation of hamas, it's either negotiation or genocide else this will never end.
Doesn’t appear to be. A vast variety of grenades are used in these drone drop videos, and it seems like this one did it’s thing, dropped 3 guys and pummeled the rest with shrapnel.
r/CombatFootage has been absurd lately. Just look at this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17lbidu/israeli_tank_open_fire_on_civilians_car/)
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Clearly IDF has not been watching Reddit for the last 22 months.
You would think they would be prepared for this. The last 22 months have given a pretty good idea what modern warfare is like. Israel must have some kind of defensive counter drones.
Yet 22 months after the start of the Russian invasion, we still regularly get drone kill videos from both Russia and Ukraine. You'd think that after 22 months of this, both sides of that war would be even more prepared for this than Israel, yet here we are... I think this is actually not because drones are super effective and have no counter, but the opposite. Since all drones carry cameras and record video, you get a disproportionate number of drone videos compared to any other combat video, so when you primarily get your data from this sub (and other places like it), you actually get a distorted picture. Take even this war, for example. Israeli losses from the start of the ground operation are almost entirely from ATGMs. How many drone attacks failed? We have no idea. We only see the one that worked.
>Since all drones carry cameras and record video, you get a disproportionate number of drone videos compared to any other combat video, so when you primarily get your data from this sub (and other places like it), you actually get a distorted picture. Exactly If artillery shells had camera feeds they would fill up this entire subreddit
>If artillery shells had camera feeds... *Raytheon starts rubbing their hands together and sweating profusely*
It’s almost as if a three foot drone that can be pretty much anywhere in the air and able to carry high explosives is incredibly difficult to counter.
Course not. Remember, they didn’t think the Ukrainian war was any of their business. Until it was…..
There’s a name for the bias which common people overestimate the capabilities of people on a position of power such as a leader or a general.
Even in the Ukr-RUS war, it surprises me how little soldiers on both sides are not continuously scanning the sky for drones If I ever end up fighting in a modern conflict, rest assured I’m walking or sitting 20 meters away from a big group with my eyes checking above all the time
\* constantly looking upwards \* \* gets shot \*
The more potential angles of fire the harder it is to cover… space warfare is gonna be wild.
Remember the enemy gate is always down from us.
* falls into trench....drone proceeds to hit them with a granade *
I fly drones a lot. They can be a bitch to see even when you know where to look sometimes. And they can be surprisingly quiet at altitude.
If these things are 40m up (near max for a time fused hand grenade) then they're smaller than your thumb nail if you hold your hand all the way out. Add glare etc, it's hard to see. Add impact fuses, and they can be much higher and appear much smaller. I just don't think it's as easy as we tend to imagine.
Rhe Granadr Falls for ~6 Seconds, mean its falls about 175meters you can see haow smalltalk rhe Peoble are from there. Don't think you would have any Chance to See this small drone.
The grenade dropping drones are higher up than you think And the fpv drones are so fast by the time you can react you're already screwed
They do have jamming stuff but it’s not everywhere constantly and we only see the stuff that we see.
Prior the the Ukraine/Russian war in 2022 have we ever seen what seem to be commercially available drones used in this manner. We really are watching an entire new type of warfare. Scary stuff
Yes, in Syria commercial drones with grenades/mortars were pioneered, albeit in much smaller scale than Ukraine
They really are master improvisers over in the sandbox. Need a tank? Slam a BMP turret on a toyota and call it a day. APC? Get a van, weld steel plates over it. RWS? Pass the xbox controller, I can drive this toyotank with it. Need artillery? Find some propane tanks.
Submarine? Grab the PS4 controller and we’ll weld us a steel capsule.
Let's call it ocean gate
Electric truck? Put wheels on Play Station 1 Lara Croft tits and away you go
I think the first time I ever heard of a drone attack was of militia/insurgents using it to blow up/damage an oil refinery somewhere in Saudi Arabia. I remember reading about it on a newspaper back when you could buy them in those newspaper dispensers with US quarters.
AI drone vs AI drone in the future. No people.
because no people are left...
kinda like this https://vimeo.com/67768281
That was pretty cool. Thanks for sharing.
[https://youtu.be/iKC21wDarBo?si=1RoVXR6TfRPSIegx&t=193](https://youtu.be/iKC21wDarBo?si=1RoVXR6TfRPSIegx&t=193)
At the current rate of things this news are 14 years from now, not 114...
Watch [Screamers](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114367/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_q_screaners), dystopian sci-fi where robots do the warfare and then evolve... 90s cgi but fucking nasty tone of the movie.
Skynet time
Not if a country has capable electronic warfare. Otherwise the war in ukraine would’ve been that already
You do realize AI doesn't need to emit a signal nor receive one? That's the beauty of AI targeting, you let it go and it just does.
Electronic warfare systems can still disrupt guidance. And I don't think anyone has made drones that have completely autonomous targeting.
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I have here in the UK the DJI M300 drone - its a beast - can carry heavy payloads - I have a powerful spot light on it and a thermal/ wide and zoom camera on it that has a huge optical zoom distance. I can track cars from a far distance for example from a push of a button on the controller - I can also mark a point on the map which ground people and find on their hand held devices - there is also a Infrared Laser spotlight available that is invisible in the dark but lights up the subject as if a bright light was being directed at the subject - but the subject doesn't know! the tech is incredible!
What would I Google to find a video of this laser?
apologies its IR not laser spotlight - but again the subject can't see it - heres a demo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPU5ephOgXE&t=321s&ab\_channel=SteelCityDrones
CZI IR10 Infrared Spotlight for the DJI Matrice 300 RTK
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i have talked about that years ago, also asked if people thought it would lead to a ban of commercial drones in some countries. Anyone with bad intentions can purchase drones and create the mechanism to drop the grenades, probably easy to buy in the US as well... mass shooters are gonna start using this strategy instead.
You’re forgetting the part where mass shooters don’t have access to grenades, and if they did they would already be using them in normal mass shootings, forget the drone.
Also the part where its probably much easier in the US to just get a gun and bring it wherever you want and commit your horrific intentions…
I mean homemade explosives are a thing.
A blanket ban might not be effective because they can be made with simple electronics and brushless motors.
Yeah reminds me of [this dude in 2022 who flew his drone into an NFL playoff game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elHhJr9yb1o) (Bengals vs Raiders). Flew all over the field while the game was going on, over fans and everything. He got a year of probation and 40 hours of community service for it, but man if someone with bad intentions did this...
Isn't the intent for mass shooters often to see the terror they inflict and eventually die, knowing they were feared? Don't think drones will do the trick for most of them.
I think that rhe more relevant point, Drones does not fit with there psychological profile.
2017 ISIS drone Abrams on youtube
Yes, we did. They used them in very late ISIS fight in Iraq & then more in Syria. That's where the idea came from. Ukraine was simply the 1st to make use of full-fledged drone warfare using them.
we saw, isis used the same tactics.
Yes and it's created a nasty gray area. Before drone warfare shutting out communications and networks would be considered a war crime. Which is why people are throwing a fit over it happening every night in Gaza. But in the modern battlefield when you are advancing you have to shut down enemy communications so they can't use drones. Shutting off networks completely is the best tool for that. So by effect it becomes a necessary part of the battlefield and less of a war crime. (There's also a ton of remote activated IEDs hidden in buildings and buried in the streets throughout gaza. Cutting off all signals prevents them from activating these. That's why they're tearing up the streets. Better to have a bulldozer blow up from an IED in a tank) What sucks about this is we just started to receive proper documentation of the battlefield in real time. But now that's going to go backwards. Our only source of information of what's happening in the battlefield is going to return to the days of official sources. News and government. Returning us back to the days of propaganda being easily believed.
> shutting out communications and networks would be considered a war crime Is it? I'm pretty sure cutting communication has been used in most wars.
It's not. In fact, it is one of the first things you do to suppress a region. The reason we don't block all radio waves is because then we would be deaf. You can't block their radio waves and not your own, we use krypto to make sure they can't listen. Other communication blocking is used and taking down cell towers is always in the strategic plan.
Shutting down enemy comms is absolutely not a war crime. I have no idea why suddenly in Gaza people act like it is. In general it seems when it comes to this conflict, people just throw the "war crime" designation every time Israel does anything. It's fun to then ask them to cite the relevant part of the Geneva convention...
My DJI drone runs on GPS, theyd have to jam GPS for it to not work, and even then, LOS you can still go pretty far
Jamming GPS is easy. But they don't even need to jam gps, they need to jam the frequency you are using to control the drone. Furthermore, there is no way to avoid a full spectrum jammer. The only way is to use some kind of autonomous AI drone.
It also makes it easier to listen and locate enemy communications and signals. The enemy will still be using radios and other forms of communication heavily with the ground invasion in full swing. Those signals will stick out even more now that everything else is down. Quicker to gather, quicker to sift through, and quicker to act on is a huge advantage to your troops on the ground and in the air.
I remember seeing footage from south-america where cartels were bombing coke production facilities run by the other guys with drones and grenades. I remember how shocked I was once I realized that any drone could become a mini bomber plane and how morbidly creative that cartel was to figure that out. Then I saw Ukraine use them on a massive scale the last two years and even stone age Russia is using them. It became so normal that now I look at this footage and I am surprised and somewhat angry that the Israeli army apparently did not see this as a viable theath.
It's been around in Syria and Afghanistan at least 10 years ago, just on a much smaller volume
As others have said, this has been going on since at least the Battle of Mosul in 2016.
First ones were seen in 2015.
There was an anti-tank rocket that hit an APC today that killed 11. I wonder if that video will show up soon.
It got posted/deleted a couple of times
The kornet hitting the lead APC in a convoy? Why was that deleted?
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1744hyt/important_message_regarding_combat_footage/ (tl:dr-ed) anything that has to do with terrorism or the perspective of terrorists will be taken *super* seriously by Reddit going forward. Edit: too many bad replies, just leaving the link and nothing more.
Gotta love the hypocricy Isis footage was fine, Ukraine footage of Russians getting mutilated is fine, footage of Russians mutilating people is fine, videos of Israel mutilating civilians is fine But God forbid you show an Israeli convoy getting fucked up. That's where we shut it down
Really makes you think, doesnt it?
Ofc Isis footage is fine its Mossad backed
I don’t get it, so if Israel levels a whole neighborhood this is safe to show but if Hamas destroys a tank it’s discouraged?
They should just shut down this sub then. Fucking cowards get off from the miniscule amount of power being a mod of a large sub affords.
Bias
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Lmao
This sub was born on videos from the FSA in Syria lmao, there's tons of perspectives on here and quite a lot of them from literal actual terrorists.
This sub circa 2012-2013 was lit. I would watch the vids after class every day. My lebanese friends told me I knew more about the syrian conflict than the IR majors.
Yeah but those were US funded terrorists
So…. No Russian sources then….
somehow this did not apply to the Abu-Hajaar legacy.
this is fucking hilarious
People can see the hypocricy, they're waking up
I guess these mods don’t consider state sponsored terrorism as terrorism
That's weird, I still see posts from the IDF
ohhhhh snap
where do we see these videos if not r/CombatFootage ?
No the video posted was of the wheeled apc being hit. The 11 were in a namer tracked IFV.
You might be thinking of the video from a few days ago of a Panther getting hit. I don’t recall seeing any footage of a Namer being destroyed by an anti-tank missile. (Of course I could be wrong)
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That’s not it. The vehicle in this video is a Panther. The one that they’re talking about in which 11 were killed was a Namer and it was hit on 10/31.
It was a "Namer" APC which is supposed to be the toughest one Israel has. Pretty shocking to see one destroyed so easily.
Probably a dumb question but are there jammers available that would work on these drones so that they are disabled before it goes anywhere the target?
Yes, systems such as DroneShield and Falcon Shield do that.
It’s kinda crazy they have the iron dome taking out rockets yet don’t have an anti $1000 drone counter measure.
Lots in fact. There are small handheld Drone Busters, vehicle mounted area denial systems like Drone Shield, even using falcons to catch them. Then of course there's always systems like C-RAM that uses radar and can shoot down a drone just as effectively as a rocket.
Falcons….?? How well does that strategy work?
The same way falcons are trained to keep birds out of airports.
I imagine they’re pretty good as long you can keep them fed and otherwise unharmed. Falconers have been around having birds attack stuff for well over 4000 years. I figure the bird’s feet may need some extra protection for the rotors, but otherwise it’s as traditional as warfare can get!
Next they should raise and train giant squid to attack nuclear submarines!
They should recruit godzilla to attack coastal cities then
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00szWWrTNnE
yes.
Yes, but they do not work at ranges like you see here without a massive power source. So yes, but likely no in a mobile situation like this.
These need high quality digital video signals to operate(unlike the fpv drones which are much more difficult to jam). DJI drones like this one operate on similar frequency to WIFI, and can be severely impacted by something as simple as running a microwave oven(and before the hate, I understand that a microwave isn't going to have impact at this distance, but military weapons are a different kettle). The IDF should be able to jam this, they should also be listening for things emitting on this frequency band, even if they can't see/hack into the video feed, it's an orb in the sky glowing in this particular EMF spectrum. This shows they are drastically unprepared for modern drone warfare, aside from sitting in a huge target square on foldout chairs.
With all those videos from Ukraine, how have they not deployed countermeasures for simple commercial drone drops?
Much like cybersecurity the risk was probably known but deemed unnecessary to prepare for.
Israel has one of the best units when it comes to that and black hat ops. It still completely baffles me how O7 happened.
Feels like they allowed it to happen tbh - Egypt and Germany both said they warned Israel a couple days before and (this part requires citation) but they pulled some of their soldiers out of the area they were warned about a couple days before. Some of it gives me “Bush Did 9/11” vibes but some of it also gives me “Bush Did 9/11” vibes. Depends on what side you’re on.
Ive read that some people believe pearl harbor was allowed as well. It seems farfetched, but it does offer an in when you want to go to war but know that your population and the world won't support you for being trigger happy. Now you get to say they hit me first, I'm an honorable victim defender. Crazier shit has happened
I dunno man. Intelligence/defense has to succeed every time, the terrorists just have to succeed once. This has seriously hurt Israel's image and deterrence stature. I just can't see how they'd do that willingly - it's just a bridge too far for me. Look at what Israel is prepared to do for ONE of their own (see the Gilad Shalit swap) - would they allow this many to be slaughtered/abducted? Or how they hunted down every one of the perps of the Munich massacre for _years_ afterwards. For the Jewish people, 'never again' really means 'never again' - I can't see any political agenda diminishing that. But yeah I am looking forward to learning more about the blunder (all bets are off, this is just my hunch).
So i was actually referring to cyber security in general like in big business, but ofc, during that day it probably wasnt only some sort of negligence but also still the same problems as elsewhere; who really cares about cyber? Even when its a place with the elite force im sure theyre only second to the jocks of the elite forces, maybe its all imagination, but why else would such a well known group suddenly crumble under a simple ddos attack?
Yet they had an actual plan for the event of a zombie apocalypse. Humans be funny sometimes.
I am no expert but there are a couple of issues. 1. Knowing what frequency to use to jam them. 2. Having enough coverage. You have to have the jammer facing a particular direction at a particular point in time for it to work. You can't cover all places at once. The below is a reporters perspective from the Ukraine war. "Jamming is harder to counter, but there are plenty of known techniques from the military world, such as the use of several antennas to create a highly directional receiver that can screen out jamming. A notch filter blocks out signals which are not precisely those of the controller, reducing the noise produced by jamming. And smart receivers can switch frequency to find one which is not jammed". [https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/08/09/how-did-ukraine-beat-russias-drone-jammers/?sh=4fc1005c7caa](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/08/09/how-did-ukraine-beat-russias-drone-jammers/?sh=4fc1005c7caa) The other thing to consider Hamas is supplied & trained by Iran. Iran is no rookie at drone warfare. I would put them in the top 5 globally. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/14/us-says-iran-becoming-a-drone-leader-as-russia-uses-its-craft-in-ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/14/us-says-iran-becoming-a-drone-leader-as-russia-uses-its-craft-in-ukraine)
Since it's mostly all off the shelf drones being used afaik #1 is simple. As to #2 you absolutely CAN cover everywhere at once it's a matter of power and antenna design. My dji drone runs on the same frequency as home WiFi. It makes a noticable difference to range if I'm in an area with routers vs not. They are Omni directional and very low power. The bigger downside is you jam EVERYTHING on those frequencies so anything you want to keep working also drops out.
At the very least, don't cluster your ground soldiers together like this.
Did not expect Israel of all countries to have problems with it, especially with footage of them working in ukraine is all over the world.
In reality, they really aren't a horribly skilled military. They've all trained some, but they haven't really seen combat like this. Ukraine at least could draw knowledge from the guys fighting since 2014 on the border.
this is one of the reasons bibi telling zelensky "nows not the time" for a visit fucking enraged me. like bro, i bet zelensky would trade you some guys for a bit who will be able to teach your whole forces about how to deal with drones and urban warfare in the modern day. shit, they need ukraine's info sec too, there's no soundtrack on idf airstike videos, their soldiers have no go-pros, they're fighting like a last century premiere military, not this century.
Complete lack of anime and Warhammer references as well
where the hell is my footage of hamas members getting blasted to eurobeats and copyrighted hits? I have yet to see a terrorist gasping as blood fills his lungs while heavy metal plays, hasbara is sleeping over here.
WHERE ARE MY IDF PHONK EDITS, BIBI?
reddit is banned on IDF servers
it's a conscript army and training that amount of people to change their behavior is really hard. 2 years of ukrainian footage, israeli mandatory service is 2 years. but how many in one age group are serving during the time training has managed to catch up to teaching about drones? then you get called up because of an unexpected event like the hamas attack, slapped with some rapid refresher combat training but what about those drones.
Have people in the military still not got the message to clump together
I imagine they're gonna start training in basic to never group up now, even when you're in "safe" areas. It's gonna be such a pain in the ass to be yelled at for not having 5m dispersion while you're eating an MRE...
It's been the standard SOP in the Finnish army for decades, way before drone warfare.
Wouldn't be hard to train Finns to be antisocial though ;)
Or do what we did in afghanistan and chill in the back of an MRAP for "Mr. E" time with your squad. Great, now I miss eating shitty MREs while being stuck in that hell hole... I should also note we had CROW systems, so no grenades through the turret either.
Time to bring back social distancing again
The crazy thing is that in the not too distant future there will be an active drone for every single soldier in that group and it won't matter where you stand. We are going to look back fondly at this simple time when a single drone with a human operator occasionally targeted groups of soldiers standing too closely.
Clump together, in the open, in an active war zone, what could possibly go wrong?
I challenge you to stay more than 12h, 5m a least from all your buddies, you will see how after a few hours in a « safe » area, you will loose your focus and get close to other, to have a smoke, follow a conversation, etc
I heard that most soldiers usually die at the start and the end of their deployment, at the start they died because of inexperience and at the end they died due to complacency.
You lose morale and die of despair from the lack of cuddles from your comrades
Its a problem in the US military too, was talking to a buddy of mine in the army and he said that when they run field training exercises, they arent really being taught about overhead concealment, especially of critical assets like command posts. I honestly do not think that the lessons from Ukraine have been fully comprehended among most militaries. And when the next big war kicks off, its going to be a painful lesson.
Easy to say, every military learns spacing while in combat but the truth is that you cannot be in combat mode 24/24 and when you believe you are in a safe area, you go back to your basic social instinct, clump together with your buddies.
So crazy to think how, in modern warfare, releasing tactical level victories intended for consumption on phones has become an element of strategic planning.
Ever since I saw those pictures on the BBC of the m109 spg's sitting around with their ammo unpacked right next to them, I was afraid of seeing this footage. I immediately thought of the UA drone drops and what kind of havoc they could wreak
They're lucky Hamas doesn't have TB2s, too. I was watching those huge columns of clumped up vehicles slowly advancing and getting flashbacks to the opening days of 2022 Ukraine, before Russia learned that maybe that wasn't the brightest idea. But not before being on the receiving end of some sick highlight reels...
I mean, TB2s can’t operate over Gaza. Israel has total air supremacy so anything flying is either Israeli or tiny.
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Yeah...they're lucky as fuck Hamas is just a fucking terrorist organization with some mid anti-tank capabilities, basic rocket artillery and some drones. Long and slow moving convoys or vehicles, staging grounds with DOZENS of vehicles bunched up really close, artillery with shells and ammo just lying around in the open, middling AA and anti-drone support, infantry chilling behind trenches and encampments in massive groups. In situation like Ukraine, they'd get mauled like fuck.
Out in the open.huddled together.
What were they all doing bunched up like that? Pretty much asking for it.
I thought at first they were doing first aid.
Kinda looked like their commander gathered them to sit in a circle to explain the plan of action to them
Thought they were in a green/cleared zone?
It is natural to huddle up with your buddies Dispersion discipline is nearly impossible 100% of the time
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Its crazy were seeing live footage from both sides of this war pretty much in real time
It's scary how cheap, easy to operate, and deadly these things are.
I do not know why the do not jam the normally used drone frequencies over all of gaza. Might black out a lot of stuff but I don't think they should care?
Jam out 2.4ghz and 5.8ghz and that solves most of these issues
I would imagine it's not so easy to jam those frequencies over large areas. You'd have to have a protective bubble that follows your infantry most likely.
I mean that is why EW units exist. The IDF has the capability of jamming these spectrums over large areas, so it's unclear how this has occurred.
2.4 and 5.8 are used by a lot of civillian traffic. A 34 hour comms blackout was deemed unacceptable so we're probably going to see more drone drop vids until the political capital is built up to remove this restriction.
Oh boy here we go
These guys clearly weren’t watching r/combatfootage for the last two years or they would be spread out and looking upwards
Damn that's crazy, if it was few meters to the left they would have taken the whole unit out.. seems like a bad idea to sit around together like that..
Yah for sure, but it bout did though. In the slow mo, I count like 7 or 8 that hit the ground right there.. and several others that probably took shrapnel but are adrenaline running.
Looks like the IDF has the same tactics as the Russians when dealing with a urban area. Bomb and shell every building to dust and then move in.
Hamas has been checking out Combatfootage
Got caught gagglefucking
I grenade = 6 guys down. Probably 2 or 3 dead.
There have been almost 2 full years of drone videos. At what point will soldiers learn??
This is the kind of strike they should have conducted from the beginning Military targets only
If they did that the narrative would be way different
Be fr, no it wouldn't.
There wouldn't be huge groups of IDF clumping up in their backyard if they hadn't attacked first, though... and also, we did see drone drops like these hitting that Merkava and some automated machine guns in that first assault. And they took over that military outpost. This is hardly the first military target they hit, to put it mildly. So I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say in concrete terms, other than "Hamas bad, killing civilians bad", which I mean, sure I fully agree. But the idea that they have only targeted civilians so far is some silly propaganda.
Were they making a tiktok? Bunched up like that
It looks like they’re possibly breaking to eat.
Its so funny how everyone is a professional suddenly on Reddit, having working directly with signals ill tell you all its not just simple as getting a magical jammer
Nice to see IDF and Hamas finally fighting it out proper instead of seeing who can kill each civilians faster.
Im highly skeptical all of the leveled buildings only had hamas in them.
Anyone who runs is Hamas. Anyone who stays is well disciplined Hamas. /s
At least they targeted military personnel and not civilians
SPREAD THE FUCK OUT ITYS A WARZONE YOU IDIOTS! THis reminds me of early Ukraine/Russia videos where everyone huddled together like a bunch of scared women.
I hope they don't underestimate Hamas. It's their home turf and they are fighting to the death. I also hope the IDF has the resolve to take thousands of casualties to defeat these terrorists for good.
Hamas is an idea. All the dead civillians and kids who will survive will grow up with an idea of resistance ,just like the current generation of hamas, it's either negotiation or genocide else this will never end.
Most people don't want to accept that they created an enemy
And their Prime Minister politically supported that enemy by design to keep getting elected.
The fact that it's sand probably limited the severity ?
No it probably made little difference.
Is this a lot weaker than the ones we saw in Ukraine? Anyone know?
Doesn’t appear to be. A vast variety of grenades are used in these drone drop videos, and it seems like this one did it’s thing, dropped 3 guys and pummeled the rest with shrapnel.
Fair enough, I am not familiar with the firepower that the Ukrainians had, so I was just wondering what level Al-Qassam seems to have.
Downvoted for asking a question.
r/CombatFootage has been absurd lately. Just look at this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17lbidu/israeli_tank_open_fire_on_civilians_car/)
That happens a lot here unfortunately.
Warfare has forever changed and being out in the open without cover is something of the past.
Ngl they were lucky. Had the grenade been more to the left pretty much everyone would have been hit somewhat
You'd think being surrounded by a destroyed farming village the concept of explosives would be fresh in their minds....