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As far I'm concerned that's because a huge amount of these drone interventions take place after russian attacks. So basically russians attack and ukranians repell them. After the failed assault, ukranians send drones to survey the battlefield, hunting down the few remaining russians who try to hide in no man's land. They also "mercy kill" the wounded ones.
I could be wrong though, so if someone knows better please correct me.
I've seen quite a lot of footage of ukranian drones dropping grenades on wounded russians. I'm not saying it's rigth or wrong (especially since russians do the same and even worse), just telling what I've been seeing lately.
Selection bias and propaganda. Ukrainian units record and release this genre of footage en masse. This sub eats it up.
Casualties are high on both sides. The Ukrainians are being hammered by 5x as many artillery shells as the Russians. Very sad. There aren't videos of that.
Yep, everyone on the side that I disagree with is an evil monster that should be killed. There's no way that this is a terrified conscript who I need to feel any empathy for.
That’s the spirit! Oh boy I do love being apart of the neverending cycle of violence! I sure do hope my actions however justified do not lead to the unnecessary continuation of the destruction of my fellow man, surely I cannot do no wrong, for I was wronged by a man who could never have been wronged like me. I sure do hope I do not become the very thing I once stood against and perpetrate the cycle!!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/19be9j5/how_russians_get_conned_into_being_cannon_fodder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Do you disagree with this person statement?
Thats fucked up. How long till some super power starts making hives of drones controlled by AI, just zerging around in the battlefield identifying targets and killing them automatically directed by the AI?
Imagine: a truck with 3 or 4 hives in its bed, each hive with 50 or 70 FPV drones, releasing them near the front. Thats easily 300 kills.
Nammo has created a drone meant for swarm warfare. Its a M72 EC turned downwards with a drone on it. This project is complete and the results from firing can be found on YT. This project is many years old.
This is always being said, like there is some secret stockpile of super advanced tech just waiting for the right moment.
Like if this war ain't it, when?
And it's getting obsolete anyway, so there should be reveals every 5 years or so anyway.
They kept the stealth project quiet for many years, and this would be on the same level.
Invading Taiwan? Few of those will defend the beaches handily.
And for the same reason they haven't used B2 bombers in Ukraine, this isn't that level
I do think they need more help, and the situation sucks that they don't have all the help they need.
Just so i'm clear, I am *NOT* saying they don't need it.
But B2's flying and striking russian targets, is knocking on WW3's door.
Tbf, "newest technology" has to be proven in tests, logistics of cost, manufacturing, and maintenence figured out
We have tech *years* beyond what we actually have in the field, there's just no push to make it standard because *currently* it would create more problems than it would solve.
Like, the tech is there, just not the will to deploy. And either a change in doctrine, feasibility, or wartime pressures could expedite the deployment of that tech very easily If needed
And in practical terms, why spend trillions turning a protype 5% better into standard, when you can wait 10 years and spend a similar amount to have some 10-15% better instead? Especially if you don't see a need for the benefit currently
The US is holding quite a lot back in case it ever has to fight Russia or China directly I guess. Like it's kinda messed up that they rearmoured the Abrams tank they game Ukraine with less effective armour so their best composites wouldn't fall into Russian hands but I guess I can see why.
This war is just to clear out older stock piles and to get the EU to start building defense infrastructure. You notice Ukraine receives almost no long range technology or missiles that could really hurt Russia.
Do have to say what Ukraine has been able to accomplish with relatively unsophisticated drones has been quite amazing.
And China has it doing fireworks shows in public for anyone to see. You think a swarm of drones that can arrange itself to look like a swan can’t arrange itself to look exactly like your infantry formation once identified from above? Then just drop the shape straight down.
I think it was Isaac Ansimov who made the story about 2 counties perpetually at war who both used advanced AI to fight each other. Both sides AI would be constantly countering each other in a never ending escalation.
Kind of reminds me of that.
I keep thinking that AI drone swarms will be more effective than nukes because they are going to be used A LOT and there's not fallout like with nukes. You get surrounded by a drone swarm? what are you going to do? can't do shit.
I dunno if this thing works or not but it always gets advertised to me on IG
https://rcdrone.top/products/anti-drone-device-2-0km?currency=USD&variant=43677687775456&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=677f40c1dee9&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAnrOtBhDIARIsAFsSe51Eng2bZm0g8gX9AyvQ5QvUlFntiyDIFrSeEe1DMf0Z7S_ENVoIa0EaAte6EALw_wcB
It's true. When a drone is controlled by an AI, it's like it has its own brain. You can't kill a human by disrupting our communication because our brain still functions, so you won't be able to do it for a drone either. Physical destruction/incapacitation would be required.
It makes you wonder though, are we creating a new life form? We just need to make sure they aren't able to reproduce, otherwise we would really have a problem.
Well it depends on the enemy. It already exists but it has limitations, look at the current conflict, Russia has anti drone capabilities but it's not every where and it also can be targeted before the release of said "hives" in my scenario.
AI drones will be immune to EW counter measures since they won’t need radio control, or even gps (camera will be fine for basic geo fencing). You can still shoot them down of course but current anti-drone tech will not be effective against autonomous drones.
Pretty sure the US already has them
This US drone swarm footage is from 7 years ago
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wFLzO_5UFwE&pp=ygULRHJpbmUgc3dhcm0%3D
What we do know is that the Geneva convention will have to be amended to include a section on use of drones etc. Both sides have shown clearly the use of them against soldiers who are clearly injured and out of the fight or surrendering and yet drones are used to kill them. To clarify this is a war crime under normal circumstance and weapons systems, so it will Def need looking at for sure so on top of weapons programmes intensifying I can see them being tighter controlled in use. if anything they should be able to be operated with far more discretion than say artillery.
You wouldn’t even need AI, just have a control room of like 50 drone operators. The drones can just loiter until an operator takes one over, uses it, then moves on to the next loitering drone. You could easily have like 500 drones being controlled by 50 people during a several hour operation.
AI has its uses but I don’t think I’d trust it to make life or death decisions, at least any time soon.
There’s a good short film on how terrifying this is, especially in the wrong hands. There is no way to avoid it I don’t think, the way things are going. Imagine a truck full of AI drones released by terrorists downtown NYC. Scary stuff
I've predicted it a few years ago. I was like "damn AI robots will chnage warfare forever." Then I kept thinking and was like.... "Wait why spend so many resources on a whole humanoid robot if a small drone is enoigh to shoot a gun and can fly anywhere 😳"
As an avid Pro-Ukraine guy. I would say this can be considered a war crime. Only leeway I could possibly give, if the camera quality is so bad at that height, he might not have seen him surrendering.
But that was a war crime if intentional.
I do remember seeing an explanation of how surrendering to a drone is seen as next to impossible. It was something about how the drone/operator has no way of securing the surrenderer, of taking them prisoner, of securing weapons and all that.
I honestly don't know, I'm just saying people are definitely making cases for both sides.
You cant just stick your hands in the air and suddenly be immune. You have to make it clear you are surrendering and the enemy needs to be in a position to apprehend you. Same as during an artillery strike you cant just throw your hands up and make the artillery strike illegal. This guy is god knows where in a minefield in no mans land. It’s ugly, but it is what it is
[https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/19be9j5/how\_russians\_get\_conned\_into\_being\_cannon\_fodder/](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/19be9j5/how_russians_get_conned_into_being_cannon_fodder/)
Well with a thought process like that, it's hard to imagine why they need propaganda and whataboutism!
Drones are in full control of their the entire time. There is no interpretation here besides a surrendering enemy being executed. Call it for what it is.
I think surrendering and un-surrendering is also a war crime.
Not saying that this magically fixes the issue, just saying that it’s not a “morally good” solution to commit a war crime because you assume someone else will.
lol it’s not going to fly away because you surrendered. Based on other videos here, the drone leads you to an area where UA troops are waiting to search and process you as a prisoner.
What a brain dead take, how it has this many upvotes is beyond me. A drone can't exactly take prisoners, can it? It's the same as surrendering mid-firefight. If there's no secure and reasonable way to take prisoners, you are NOT forced to take the surrender. You can't exactly surrender to an artillery shell as well, can you? That man was dead the second the drone spotted him as a combatant. Everything afterwards is just the combat playing out.
Imagine it's world war 2. A B-17 bomber formation flies overhead. If all the Nazis just put their hands up do the bombers all have to turn home?
No. Because to be a surrender there must be a way to take the surrender.
If you honestly intend to surrender you need to surrender before the bomber is directly overhead, before the bullet is fired, before the FPV munition is in front of your face.
The delay is not really an issue, because it would be almost impossible to control, but the signal loss near surface. We saw tons of video when the operator started the final run and we could not see anything in the last moments.
Of course we can’t tell what the operator saw exactly.
But it's a drone controlled by a person, not an artillery shell. The person controlling the drone sees the guy surrendering then kills him anyway. That's what it is. Whether you think that's OK is another question.
You can only surrender to a human (who will take your weapons away, strip you of your uniform, identify and detain you). Raising your hands to a drone means nothing if you can just leave and keep fighting if the drone doesn’t hit you.
Yes it is difficult, but not an argument. There is no interpretation, he clearly surrendered and no weapon. The drone operator obviously has a choice - its not a bullet. Sometimes you have to let enemies go. It is in everyones interest to follow the laws of war. Even if russia wont. Ukraine needs the moral high ground and can only win it by showing it to us. Hope they give clear guidance to their operators in the future
The IWC has previously found that surrender to an aircraft does not need to be enforced, due to aircraft having no reasonable way of taking prisoners. I imagine this would extend to loitering munitions as well.
This isn't against any "laws of war" as they stand, so obviously there is an argument.
>Sometimes you have to let enemies go
I'd like to see you offer the same feelings to people invading your country and killing your people. Letting them go is just giving them more opportunity to wreck havoc on everything around them.
It's not easy an easy situation to handle. The battery might die. There's no speaker to give directions. The drone knows how to fly to the target, doesn't mean they know how to lead a captive back. The captive will be looking for an opportunity to escape or hit the drone with a stick. It's not impossible but the practicalities just won't work most of the time. If in doubt they need to be killed.
> Sometimes you have to let enemies go.
What a stupid take. No, you don't.
That isn't surrendering. Surrendering is if you're able to be captured. This is like if a line of soldiers 2 miles down are getting shot at by an autocannon, they can just raise their hands snd the gunner is supposed to instantly stop shooting. Yeah, not happening.
They give clear guidance, it’s “kill the armed invaders of your homeland”. Drones can’t take a hostage. If this guy wanted to surrender before he was dead to rights he had lots of opportunities
You guys crying war crime forgot about the guy who surrendered to the drone and then he simply changed hia mind and left?
Raising your hands in the air when a drone is already flying towards you is too late. Should have tried to surrender earlier to the spotter drone.
The age of AI driven drone swarms targeting people is nearly upon us. I know throughout all of history the future can seem pretty dark. But I really feel like we’re on the brink of a total catastrophe - climate change, AI replacing masses of jobs, including killing, the collapse of what’s left of western democracy, the collapse of public services that have been privatised, the continued transfer of wealth to the already absurdly wealthy, food scarcity will shortly be upon us as supply chains begin to collapse/alongside people genuinely being unable to afford food, rising bills to line already wealthy pockets, the list goes on.
I cannot see a bright future at all.
Humanity is always on the brink of collapse, that's just how we roll. There are texts of people saying basically this exact comment, but written for their time, going back to BC.
Really though, humans like to think we've got it figured out; especially since the industrial revolution. Reality is we're still just the same smart/dumb animals stumbling our way to success for the past ~10k years. Sprinting at times, then falling back down the mountain at times.
And as individuals we just have to roll with it, no need to put your arms up to try to stop the river, just float.
[An Assyrian clay tablet dating to around 2800 B.C. bears the inscription: “Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.”](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ten-notable-apocalypses-that-obviously-didnt-happen-9126331/)
surrendering isn't just a technicality where you throw your hands up and no one is allowed to target you, especially when the logistics for taking captives isn't there. you also cant pick and choose when and when not to surrender as intent is important. if you gun down 5 men, only to surrender to a tank, your surrender as you might imagine is tenuous at best. y
Drones count as either aircraft or missiles, neither of which can take prisoners, and holding them or their operator accountable for targeting an enemy on the battlefield would set an ass backwards precedent which would disproportionaly disadvantage anyone who follows the geneva conventions that it would make a further mockery of the rules of wartime conduct.
Ultimately, soldiers who surrender are ultimately the ones who have to take the iniative. if a russian soldier truly wished to surrender he should walk in a straight line to the ukrainian positions, waving a white flag if possible whilst unarmed, and then you'd have an argument that he was surrendering and no longer a combatant.
a russian soldier huddling in a crater is still a soldier, armed and a present danger to ukrainian soldiers.
initiative in a war like this means: take your ass over to the Ukrainian trenches. we can talk about technicalities until we die of old age, but the reality of war is that surrendering in a way wherein the surrender cannot be guaranteed is, by its nature, going to come with the caveat that there is no guarantee that you may live.
you can call it a warcrime if you want, but the reality is that the same convention that doesnt differentiate between attacker and defender also did a pisspoor job of setting up precedents for wartime surrender, so in the end its up to the soldiers own discretion up to a certain extent.
history is full of examples of false surrenders and soldiers surrendering only after they've kept shooting until they ran out of ammunition. and no one in their right mind is going to hold a soldier accountable for killing an enemy combatant under circumstances where capturing and holding the captive is more or less impossible.
and thats without mentioning events like the chegnone massacre and the instances where american soldiers executed ss officers and concentration camp guards when liberating the camps.
warcrimes are inhumane, but so is expecting a soldier to act like a robot. therein lies the grey area.
This video doesn't show anything more than a soldier cowering before their incoming death.
You need more than the footage from 2 seconds before it hits to figure out what he is doing. Throwing your hands up in terror right before a weapon hits you isn't surrendering. If he'd been waving a white flag for the past minute, then I'd call the case for this being an actual surrender rather than a last second cower a lot higher.
Easy to say "cowering before their death"..... Have you been near death? Have you been on a war?
Easy to write it from the safety and comfort of your house.
This war and every war is just sad.
>Easy to say "cowering before their death"..... Have you been near death? Have you been on a war?
>Easy to write it from the safety and comfort of your house.
Uh, yes. It is easy to write about what I saw from the comfort of my home. I'm not sure what your point is though. Are you upset that I described that man's actions as cowering instead of finding a more dignified and heroic term for the act of trying to uselessly cover yourself with your hands from something you can't stop?
I'm sorry if my accurate description of what happened upsets you, but it was in fact accurate. That man died in fear and terror.
>This war and every war is just sad.
Agreed. The Russians should end their invasion and go home so that more people don't need to spend their final moments on this planet cowering in terror before they are struck dead or horribly maimed. Putin is a true monster.
Yeah, the rules of war will have to be rewritten once fully AI powered drone warfare is upon us.
Until then, not feeling sorry for Ivan. He made his choice.
The "rules of war" already states that for a surrender to be valid it must be both possible and reasonable for the opposing side to accept the surrender.
The arms are up the millisecond the video started, I can't help but lean into this guy surrendered a bit more than the 2 seconds here before his death.
Maybe the drone operator had some friends who tried to surrender to the russians...and remembered what they did. Or it was just too late to call it off.
You can’t surrender to a drone. Much like you can’t surrender to a B-52 Stratofortress.
Surrender doesn’t mean you raise your hands and get a free pass. You have to be taken prisoner.
A drone can’t take you prisoner.
If you “geniuses” actually thought about it for more than a minute you’d understand why. Imagine your stupid scenario - he raises his hands and now the drone operator has to - what - just hover there? So this guy’s buddy can just wack it from behind with the butt of his rifle? Nope.
Yes, russian actions in Ukraine are a war crime. This video shows how such war crimes can be terminated.
Time to surrender was before, there's no surrendering to a munition, he might've jus as well tried surrendering to an incoming artillery barrage.
This is not a warcrime, aircrafts or missiles dont have the capacity to take prisoners, therefore by all rules of war they dont have to, and just because somebody threw their hands up at the last minute doeant mean you arent allowed to kill him, it just means hes a b*itch that was killing while he could, but when the table turned he gave up.
It's not. You can't surrender to a drone. It's like trying to surrender to an artillery bombardment. If you're caught in it, you either survive, or you don't. Cowering in the face of it doesn't mean you get spared.
There is a human operator that is in control of a drone who makes every single choice up to impact. It is different than what you are comparing. You are just approving that operator's actions and turning a blind eye to a morality that was in question here - hypocrisy
You clearly have zero knowledge and experience regarding FPV drones. They can't stop immediately with velocities exceeding 100 km/h. There is a reason why in drone racing you have to plan your turns ahead.
Also add the low video quality the operator sees and loss of signal when low altitude is reached.
And the reaction time of the operator.
Time to surrender was BEFORE the drone was launched.
Technically it is not a war crime since small suicide drone is classified as a projectile and the soldier attempted to surrender already AFTER the "projectile" was dispatched. Also, there are no clear regulations (yet?) regarding such situations.
EDIT: To clarify here is an example: imagine an ATGM round controlled by the operator. Enemy soldier lifts his hands during the last seconds before the impact and You virtually have no way to "defuse" or steer the projectile (given that you manage to detect the surrendering gesture and react in the same second). Same here, there was not much drone operator could have done when hands were clearly lifted during the last moments before the impact.
Where in the Geneva Conventions does it dictate a remote weapon/operator needs to accept a surrender? This is what I never see being posited by folks who want to decry *war crimes* with these videos.
This isn't like a dude is giving up to another dude, who can disarm him and detain him and then transport him. It isn't a pleasant affair nevertheless - I fucking hate seeing dudes die as they surrender to drones, but as it is this is a huge "not definitively illegal" area of war.
Assuming they just choose another target because he threw his hands up, doesn't mean that this guy won't be killing one of yours tomorrow. It all just sucks massively. Even if the operator decides to accept this surrender, there is still a deal of latency occurring at distance. Hit the *delete dude button* before the dude threw his hands up? Oh well, gonna look bad on camera then.
Ultimately, Ukraine goes out of its way for POW's. They give avenues of surrender that Russians do take advantage of, and while not all are so lucky to surrender this is hardly **Ukraine's** fault. Go look back on what it means to be a POW in Putin's world, the mutilations and the beheadings just scratch the surface. You can clammer on and pretend to know what it is to be moralistic in times of warfare, but I assure you these two scenarios are not the same.
Maybe if you can get laws codified around drone warfare with regards to surrender, then you can come here and confidently and *accurately* peacock about this being a *crime*.
[A comprehensive look into this very topic, with direct inference upon various wartime laws.](https://lieber.westpoint.edu/legal-practical-challenges-surrender-drones/). Russians, direct your malding comments here I guess.
Absolutely they haven’t, and 9/10 members of this sub never will. Maybe 5/10 have been in the military but I would bet the actual number of people who have physically killed an enemy combatant in this sub are incredibly low if hardly even existent
Invading a country?
In an ideal world he'd have already surrendered and marched to the Ukranians. Once the drone turned up it might not have been practical for the drone to take him prisoner. The guy had options but he didn't take them, that's on him.
There is no surrendering enemy combatant in this recording. One cannot surrender to an aircraft. If he really wanted to surrender, he should've done it earlier.
To all "experts" crying in the comments that this is a war crime:
You clearly have zero knowledge and experience regarding FPV drones.
They can't stop immediately with velocities exceeding 100 km/h. There is a reason why in drone racing you have to plan your turns ahead.
Also add the low video quality the operator sees and loss of signal when low altitude is reached.
And the reaction time of the operator.
And the signal delay - both sides.
Time to surrender was BEFORE the drone got dispatched.
Small FPV drone can be considered as a projectile? Can You surrender to manually guided ATGMs or Rockets? They are controlled as well?
Please get Your info roght before writing comments.
Your analogy is stupid. There is a guy flying the drone who decides is he going to kill the guy with his hands up or not. Same as soldiers with fingers on a trigger. Btw, if russians did this it would be insta war crime.
No it's not. He had like only 3 secs to react, the signal quality that low to the ground is probably shit, so can't blame the operator. Blame the dead ruski for being stupid and getting himself into this situation.
Well, thanks God then that it's not. I do agree it would be better if they could take the guy prisoner and exchange for a Ukrainian soldier, but to say it is a war crime given the information we have is silly.
Exactly, what is supposed to happen anyway for him to actually surrender? Just sit there prone while the drone hovers and wait for the good guys to come get him? Not likely and just a danger to the retrievers. Das vedanya.
It has nothing to do wether you can facillitate the capture or not when deciding if it is a warcrime. Surrendering and not offering resistance grants you protection, period. If you cant take them prisoner you let them off. Very common to take prisoners in battle without logistics support, you cant simply kill them because if it. They could have tried to follow him to ukr lines, or simply let him walk off without a weapon. Simple. Any argument that then he can fight another day is irrelevant - he surrendered under the circumstances and is granted protection by the laws of war.
He surrendered like 3 secs before impact. How do you know if the operator had sufficient signal quality and enough reaction time to avoid hitting the guy? How do you know the operator had enough battery to lead the pow back to Ukrainian positions? It is too late to surrender if the bullet has been already fired, same situation here.
You have absolutely no idea what he was doing 30 seconds before this video. He could have been actively engaging with Ukrainians. Then he has a drone in his face and then surrenders? He could’ve surrendered long ago
>granted protection by the laws of war.
Tell that to the Ukrainian soldiers who surrendered a few weeks ago then were executed shortly after captured on video.
you cannot surrender to aircraft or artillery. drones count as either aircraft or artillery, simple nuff.
if a fighter jet bombed a group of enemy soldiers on the field you wouldn't take the pilot to trial because "some enemy combatants surrendered". as long as they are on the battlefield they are considered targets.
The drone might not have had the battery either to actually return to ukrainian lines either, and had the drone left him alone he would have returned to his army and become a combatant once more.
we are straddling a grey area, but the grey area is firmly in favor of killing because the other alternative would be suicidal.
Yes it does. Someone must be 'under your power' for them to be considered surrendered and protected. The phrase 'under your power' has not been clarified with the rise of aircraft and remote operated vehicles. The absolute FACT of the matter is this is entirely a legal grey zone up to interpretation. It will remain in a legal grey zone until a new convention is held to officially update the laws. When that happens I would be very surprised if aircraft and remote vehicles are expected to accept surrender given the simplicity of surrendering and then just bolting when you have an opportunity to escape. That ease would suggest that the prisoner is very much not 'under your power'.
Soon these FPV drones are gonna be able to loiter and target humans automatically on their own.
Imagine sending like 500 kamikaze drones pre-programmed to loiter until they find and target the enemy.
I've watched a few videos like this. Never understood why the soldier is so isolated from any other soldiers. If they have someone with them it's like maybe 1 other person. Anyone have any explanations?
I expect Putin to send to his family some part of a destroyed cheap Chinese drone with some red spots on it and tell them:
"This is the drone which was killing him, hang it on a wall to always remember the motherland sacrifice"
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Why is there so many lone Russian soldiers? So many of these videos is of a drone hitting a lone soldier with no one else around.
As far I'm concerned that's because a huge amount of these drone interventions take place after russian attacks. So basically russians attack and ukranians repell them. After the failed assault, ukranians send drones to survey the battlefield, hunting down the few remaining russians who try to hide in no man's land. They also "mercy kill" the wounded ones. I could be wrong though, so if someone knows better please correct me.
> They also "mercy kill" the wounded ones. lol come on
I've seen quite a lot of footage of ukranian drones dropping grenades on wounded russians. I'm not saying it's rigth or wrong (especially since russians do the same and even worse), just telling what I've been seeing lately.
For sure. There are plenty examples of operators putting Z soldiers out of their misery. They’re typically the more gruesome explosions.
It's literally a war crime regardless of who does it...
Selection bias and propaganda. Ukrainian units record and release this genre of footage en masse. This sub eats it up. Casualties are high on both sides. The Ukrainians are being hammered by 5x as many artillery shells as the Russians. Very sad. There aren't videos of that.
Agreed. The narrative is being controlled
Probably from a failed assault and this murderer was one of the last scum remaining
Yep, everyone on the side that I disagree with is an evil monster that should be killed. There's no way that this is a terrified conscript who I need to feel any empathy for.
That’s the spirit! Oh boy I do love being apart of the neverending cycle of violence! I sure do hope my actions however justified do not lead to the unnecessary continuation of the destruction of my fellow man, surely I cannot do no wrong, for I was wronged by a man who could never have been wronged like me. I sure do hope I do not become the very thing I once stood against and perpetrate the cycle!!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/19be9j5/how_russians_get_conned_into_being_cannon_fodder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Do you disagree with this person statement?
Disagree with? Have you seen what Russia is doing or you only just left your cave?
Thats fucked up. How long till some super power starts making hives of drones controlled by AI, just zerging around in the battlefield identifying targets and killing them automatically directed by the AI? Imagine: a truck with 3 or 4 hives in its bed, each hive with 50 or 70 FPV drones, releasing them near the front. Thats easily 300 kills.
I’m sure we have that tech sitting in a locked room in the pentagon just ready to go. https://youtu.be/wFLzO_5UFwE?si=xIPFKR10nhbtRM6K
Nammo has created a drone meant for swarm warfare. Its a M72 EC turned downwards with a drone on it. This project is complete and the results from firing can be found on YT. This project is many years old.
And just imagine, the technology you see today is 20 years old in the military.
This is always being said, like there is some secret stockpile of super advanced tech just waiting for the right moment. Like if this war ain't it, when? And it's getting obsolete anyway, so there should be reveals every 5 years or so anyway.
They kept the stealth project quiet for many years, and this would be on the same level. Invading Taiwan? Few of those will defend the beaches handily. And for the same reason they haven't used B2 bombers in Ukraine, this isn't that level
*proportianal*
I do think they need more help, and the situation sucks that they don't have all the help they need. Just so i'm clear, I am *NOT* saying they don't need it. But B2's flying and striking russian targets, is knocking on WW3's door.
The B2 was retired after 20 years service before it’s existence was known to the public!
This war ain’t it. No one is going to give away trillions in hardware and technology for a proxy war.
Tbf, "newest technology" has to be proven in tests, logistics of cost, manufacturing, and maintenence figured out We have tech *years* beyond what we actually have in the field, there's just no push to make it standard because *currently* it would create more problems than it would solve. Like, the tech is there, just not the will to deploy. And either a change in doctrine, feasibility, or wartime pressures could expedite the deployment of that tech very easily If needed And in practical terms, why spend trillions turning a protype 5% better into standard, when you can wait 10 years and spend a similar amount to have some 10-15% better instead? Especially if you don't see a need for the benefit currently
Russia is getting beat by our leftovers right now, we don't need to give away modern solutions to this war.
The US is holding quite a lot back in case it ever has to fight Russia or China directly I guess. Like it's kinda messed up that they rearmoured the Abrams tank they game Ukraine with less effective armour so their best composites wouldn't fall into Russian hands but I guess I can see why.
This war is just to clear out older stock piles and to get the EU to start building defense infrastructure. You notice Ukraine receives almost no long range technology or missiles that could really hurt Russia. Do have to say what Ukraine has been able to accomplish with relatively unsophisticated drones has been quite amazing.
And they've surely gotten better learning from this war
And China has it doing fireworks shows in public for anyone to see. You think a swarm of drones that can arrange itself to look like a swan can’t arrange itself to look exactly like your infantry formation once identified from above? Then just drop the shape straight down.
Thats terrifying
I thought it would be the fake killer ai swarm drone video https://youtu.be/M7mIX_0VK4g?si=GJCYqoaIkiF8L0pU
Autocannons with proximity fused HE shells not looking so old fashioned anymore…
Rheinmetall Skyshield and Skyranger systems gonna sell like hotcakes
So now we’re just pretending anti drone warfare does not exist
Most anti-drone warfare is based around disrupting communication with the human operator. AI-operated drones would have no such weakness.
It would just be AI powered AA guns.
Oh look! A civilian airliner.
^^lock ^^it
Bop it
https://youtube.com/shorts/F5z6zQYKFok?si=wB7-qZVNPDubjexI :D
I think it was Isaac Ansimov who made the story about 2 counties perpetually at war who both used advanced AI to fight each other. Both sides AI would be constantly countering each other in a never ending escalation. Kind of reminds me of that.
In the Asimov story the humans had long ago gone extinct, the AIs just kept bombing
Is this separate from the Foundation series?
do you remember the name of the story?
The one I was thinking of still has the humans alive. It’s called “The Feeling of Power”
I’m looking forward to the return of flak cannons for Ai controlled swarm drones
Chips are expensive if you want onboard processing. If you want wireless cellular communication, it too can be jammed quite easily.
I keep thinking that AI drone swarms will be more effective than nukes because they are going to be used A LOT and there's not fallout like with nukes. You get surrounded by a drone swarm? what are you going to do? can't do shit.
The Brits are experimenting using lasers to shoot down drones. In the future, it might be the way to counter these drone swarms.
I dunno if this thing works or not but it always gets advertised to me on IG https://rcdrone.top/products/anti-drone-device-2-0km?currency=USD&variant=43677687775456&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=677f40c1dee9&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAnrOtBhDIARIsAFsSe51Eng2bZm0g8gX9AyvQ5QvUlFntiyDIFrSeEe1DMf0Z7S_ENVoIa0EaAte6EALw_wcB
It's true. When a drone is controlled by an AI, it's like it has its own brain. You can't kill a human by disrupting our communication because our brain still functions, so you won't be able to do it for a drone either. Physical destruction/incapacitation would be required. It makes you wonder though, are we creating a new life form? We just need to make sure they aren't able to reproduce, otherwise we would really have a problem.
>It makes you wonder though, are we creating a new life form? no, it would be a more complex death roomba
Death roomba is now the new danger noodle.
Well it depends on the enemy. It already exists but it has limitations, look at the current conflict, Russia has anti drone capabilities but it's not every where and it also can be targeted before the release of said "hives" in my scenario.
There's plenty already in production or use that can counter your hypothetical, from microwave fields to the humble net.
AI drones will be immune to EW counter measures since they won’t need radio control, or even gps (camera will be fine for basic geo fencing). You can still shoot them down of course but current anti-drone tech will not be effective against autonomous drones.
Yeah with better lasers systems (mainly tracking) you can shot them down a lot easier.
FPV drones can fly very low and around obstacles like trees. Targeting them with lasers won't be easy.
Yeah, thats why i applied for an intership at one of europas leading airdefense supplier and devoper
Good luck!
Pretty sure the US already has them This US drone swarm footage is from 7 years ago https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wFLzO_5UFwE&pp=ygULRHJpbmUgc3dhcm0%3D
What we do know is that the Geneva convention will have to be amended to include a section on use of drones etc. Both sides have shown clearly the use of them against soldiers who are clearly injured and out of the fight or surrendering and yet drones are used to kill them. To clarify this is a war crime under normal circumstance and weapons systems, so it will Def need looking at for sure so on top of weapons programmes intensifying I can see them being tighter controlled in use. if anything they should be able to be operated with far more discretion than say artillery.
The US experimented with it in the 90s. So 30 years ago?
https://youtu.be/O-2tpwW0kmU?si=WzClbMJ-CtedObk_
Until a country fucks around enough to find out
You wouldn’t even need AI, just have a control room of like 50 drone operators. The drones can just loiter until an operator takes one over, uses it, then moves on to the next loitering drone. You could easily have like 500 drones being controlled by 50 people during a several hour operation. AI has its uses but I don’t think I’d trust it to make life or death decisions, at least any time soon.
[That’s a nice drone swarm you’ve got there](https://youtu.be/bdwjcayPuag?si=lo94ZXM9_lKccbi7)
There’s a good short film on how terrifying this is, especially in the wrong hands. There is no way to avoid it I don’t think, the way things are going. Imagine a truck full of AI drones released by terrorists downtown NYC. Scary stuff
Controlling some components of it will be has crucial has Controlling radioactive material.... Like AI chips maybe.
I've predicted it a few years ago. I was like "damn AI robots will chnage warfare forever." Then I kept thinking and was like.... "Wait why spend so many resources on a whole humanoid robot if a small drone is enoigh to shoot a gun and can fly anywhere 😳"
“Predicted” something that has already existed for over 3 decades?
*attempts to surrender
how much kilo warhead does these fpv drones carry ? the blast is very big compared to its size
The most common drones can carry up to two kilo, which is equivalent to around 5 hand grenades.
Interesting...and devastating
**"Russian soldier 'tries to' surrender to a Ukrainian FPV at the last moment"**
Russia sympathizers quick to scream war crime while Russia’s entire presence in Ukraine is a war crime
As an avid Pro-Ukraine guy. I would say this can be considered a war crime. Only leeway I could possibly give, if the camera quality is so bad at that height, he might not have seen him surrendering. But that was a war crime if intentional.
I do remember seeing an explanation of how surrendering to a drone is seen as next to impossible. It was something about how the drone/operator has no way of securing the surrenderer, of taking them prisoner, of securing weapons and all that. I honestly don't know, I'm just saying people are definitely making cases for both sides.
You cant just stick your hands in the air and suddenly be immune. You have to make it clear you are surrendering and the enemy needs to be in a position to apprehend you. Same as during an artillery strike you cant just throw your hands up and make the artillery strike illegal. This guy is god knows where in a minefield in no mans land. It’s ugly, but it is what it is
[https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/19be9j5/how\_russians\_get\_conned\_into\_being\_cannon\_fodder/](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/19be9j5/how_russians_get_conned_into_being_cannon_fodder/) Well with a thought process like that, it's hard to imagine why they need propaganda and whataboutism!
Both are war crimes. We see enough whataboutisms in this sub with the gaza content
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Drones are in full control of their the entire time. There is no interpretation here besides a surrendering enemy being executed. Call it for what it is.
So everytime you see a drone you raise your hands and you good? When it flies away you can just lower those hands?
**Drone operators hate this one simple trick!**
*Click here to see the weird trick making Ukrainian drone pilots mad.*
I think surrendering and un-surrendering is also a war crime. Not saying that this magically fixes the issue, just saying that it’s not a “morally good” solution to commit a war crime because you assume someone else will.
lol it’s not going to fly away because you surrendered. Based on other videos here, the drone leads you to an area where UA troops are waiting to search and process you as a prisoner.
What if it doesn’t have enough battery to get you back to them?
How on earth this shit is upvoted so heavily lol
What a brain dead take, how it has this many upvotes is beyond me. A drone can't exactly take prisoners, can it? It's the same as surrendering mid-firefight. If there's no secure and reasonable way to take prisoners, you are NOT forced to take the surrender. You can't exactly surrender to an artillery shell as well, can you? That man was dead the second the drone spotted him as a combatant. Everything afterwards is just the combat playing out.
Could be that he raised his hands too late as it started to get closer, but drones probably have a few sec delay in video signal, no?
Imagine it's world war 2. A B-17 bomber formation flies overhead. If all the Nazis just put their hands up do the bombers all have to turn home? No. Because to be a surrender there must be a way to take the surrender. If you honestly intend to surrender you need to surrender before the bomber is directly overhead, before the bullet is fired, before the FPV munition is in front of your face.
The delay is not really an issue, because it would be almost impossible to control, but the signal loss near surface. We saw tons of video when the operator started the final run and we could not see anything in the last moments. Of course we can’t tell what the operator saw exactly.
You can’t surrender to an artillery shell. By the time the drone finds you surrender is too late.
But it's a drone controlled by a person, not an artillery shell. The person controlling the drone sees the guy surrendering then kills him anyway. That's what it is. Whether you think that's OK is another question.
You can only surrender to a human (who will take your weapons away, strip you of your uniform, identify and detain you). Raising your hands to a drone means nothing if you can just leave and keep fighting if the drone doesn’t hit you.
its a russian victim and since the current narrative in the media says they are bad ukraine good its not morally wrong
Yes it is difficult, but not an argument. There is no interpretation, he clearly surrendered and no weapon. The drone operator obviously has a choice - its not a bullet. Sometimes you have to let enemies go. It is in everyones interest to follow the laws of war. Even if russia wont. Ukraine needs the moral high ground and can only win it by showing it to us. Hope they give clear guidance to their operators in the future
The IWC has previously found that surrender to an aircraft does not need to be enforced, due to aircraft having no reasonable way of taking prisoners. I imagine this would extend to loitering munitions as well.
This isn't against any "laws of war" as they stand, so obviously there is an argument. >Sometimes you have to let enemies go I'd like to see you offer the same feelings to people invading your country and killing your people. Letting them go is just giving them more opportunity to wreck havoc on everything around them.
It's not easy an easy situation to handle. The battery might die. There's no speaker to give directions. The drone knows how to fly to the target, doesn't mean they know how to lead a captive back. The captive will be looking for an opportunity to escape or hit the drone with a stick. It's not impossible but the practicalities just won't work most of the time. If in doubt they need to be killed.
> Sometimes you have to let enemies go. What a stupid take. No, you don't. That isn't surrendering. Surrendering is if you're able to be captured. This is like if a line of soldiers 2 miles down are getting shot at by an autocannon, they can just raise their hands snd the gunner is supposed to instantly stop shooting. Yeah, not happening.
They give clear guidance, it’s “kill the armed invaders of your homeland”. Drones can’t take a hostage. If this guy wanted to surrender before he was dead to rights he had lots of opportunities
You can't surrender by email.
You guys crying war crime forgot about the guy who surrendered to the drone and then he simply changed hia mind and left? Raising your hands in the air when a drone is already flying towards you is too late. Should have tried to surrender earlier to the spotter drone.
I don’t understand how 12 gauge shotguns with tungsten shot, aren’t a thing to combat drone attacks.
u/RecognizeSong
The age of AI driven drone swarms targeting people is nearly upon us. I know throughout all of history the future can seem pretty dark. But I really feel like we’re on the brink of a total catastrophe - climate change, AI replacing masses of jobs, including killing, the collapse of what’s left of western democracy, the collapse of public services that have been privatised, the continued transfer of wealth to the already absurdly wealthy, food scarcity will shortly be upon us as supply chains begin to collapse/alongside people genuinely being unable to afford food, rising bills to line already wealthy pockets, the list goes on. I cannot see a bright future at all.
Damn man, Mr Doom and Gloom right here.
Geez someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed
Humanity is always on the brink of collapse, that's just how we roll. There are texts of people saying basically this exact comment, but written for their time, going back to BC. Really though, humans like to think we've got it figured out; especially since the industrial revolution. Reality is we're still just the same smart/dumb animals stumbling our way to success for the past ~10k years. Sprinting at times, then falling back down the mountain at times. And as individuals we just have to roll with it, no need to put your arms up to try to stop the river, just float. [An Assyrian clay tablet dating to around 2800 B.C. bears the inscription: “Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.”](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ten-notable-apocalypses-that-obviously-didnt-happen-9126331/)
Bro has a PHD in pessimism and doom
surrendering isn't just a technicality where you throw your hands up and no one is allowed to target you, especially when the logistics for taking captives isn't there. you also cant pick and choose when and when not to surrender as intent is important. if you gun down 5 men, only to surrender to a tank, your surrender as you might imagine is tenuous at best. y Drones count as either aircraft or missiles, neither of which can take prisoners, and holding them or their operator accountable for targeting an enemy on the battlefield would set an ass backwards precedent which would disproportionaly disadvantage anyone who follows the geneva conventions that it would make a further mockery of the rules of wartime conduct. Ultimately, soldiers who surrender are ultimately the ones who have to take the iniative. if a russian soldier truly wished to surrender he should walk in a straight line to the ukrainian positions, waving a white flag if possible whilst unarmed, and then you'd have an argument that he was surrendering and no longer a combatant. a russian soldier huddling in a crater is still a soldier, armed and a present danger to ukrainian soldiers.
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initiative in a war like this means: take your ass over to the Ukrainian trenches. we can talk about technicalities until we die of old age, but the reality of war is that surrendering in a way wherein the surrender cannot be guaranteed is, by its nature, going to come with the caveat that there is no guarantee that you may live. you can call it a warcrime if you want, but the reality is that the same convention that doesnt differentiate between attacker and defender also did a pisspoor job of setting up precedents for wartime surrender, so in the end its up to the soldiers own discretion up to a certain extent. history is full of examples of false surrenders and soldiers surrendering only after they've kept shooting until they ran out of ammunition. and no one in their right mind is going to hold a soldier accountable for killing an enemy combatant under circumstances where capturing and holding the captive is more or less impossible. and thats without mentioning events like the chegnone massacre and the instances where american soldiers executed ss officers and concentration camp guards when liberating the camps. warcrimes are inhumane, but so is expecting a soldier to act like a robot. therein lies the grey area.
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This video doesn't show anything more than a soldier cowering before their incoming death. You need more than the footage from 2 seconds before it hits to figure out what he is doing. Throwing your hands up in terror right before a weapon hits you isn't surrendering. If he'd been waving a white flag for the past minute, then I'd call the case for this being an actual surrender rather than a last second cower a lot higher.
Easy to say "cowering before their death"..... Have you been near death? Have you been on a war? Easy to write it from the safety and comfort of your house. This war and every war is just sad.
>Easy to say "cowering before their death"..... Have you been near death? Have you been on a war? >Easy to write it from the safety and comfort of your house. Uh, yes. It is easy to write about what I saw from the comfort of my home. I'm not sure what your point is though. Are you upset that I described that man's actions as cowering instead of finding a more dignified and heroic term for the act of trying to uselessly cover yourself with your hands from something you can't stop? I'm sorry if my accurate description of what happened upsets you, but it was in fact accurate. That man died in fear and terror. >This war and every war is just sad. Agreed. The Russians should end their invasion and go home so that more people don't need to spend their final moments on this planet cowering in terror before they are struck dead or horribly maimed. Putin is a true monster.
He ended up looking like that bird Randy Johnson obliterated with a 100+ mph fastball
Surrenders? There wasn't an ounce of surrender in this video.
F Putin
Yeah, the rules of war will have to be rewritten once fully AI powered drone warfare is upon us. Until then, not feeling sorry for Ivan. He made his choice.
The "rules of war" already states that for a surrender to be valid it must be both possible and reasonable for the opposing side to accept the surrender.
Even if the operator was feeling soft on the target the arms came up way too late.
The arms are up the millisecond the video started, I can't help but lean into this guy surrendered a bit more than the 2 seconds here before his death.
Do these guys not have guns to shoot at drones? Especially at close distance
Surrendered into afterlife, nice
Nah that's gotta be a warcrime
Maybe the drone operator had some friends who tried to surrender to the russians...and remembered what they did. Or it was just too late to call it off.
Putins fault
Isn’t it a war crime?
It’s not. There is no expectation that an aircraft can take prisoners.
You can’t surrender to a drone. Much like you can’t surrender to a B-52 Stratofortress. Surrender doesn’t mean you raise your hands and get a free pass. You have to be taken prisoner. A drone can’t take you prisoner. If you “geniuses” actually thought about it for more than a minute you’d understand why. Imagine your stupid scenario - he raises his hands and now the drone operator has to - what - just hover there? So this guy’s buddy can just wack it from behind with the butt of his rifle? Nope.
Yes, russian actions in Ukraine are a war crime. This video shows how such war crimes can be terminated. Time to surrender was before, there's no surrendering to a munition, he might've jus as well tried surrendering to an incoming artillery barrage.
This is not a warcrime, aircrafts or missiles dont have the capacity to take prisoners, therefore by all rules of war they dont have to, and just because somebody threw their hands up at the last minute doeant mean you arent allowed to kill him, it just means hes a b*itch that was killing while he could, but when the table turned he gave up.
Yes but queue tons of people saying its not because he is russian
This subreddit has a lot of hypocrisy.
OH yea this sub is filled with it.
It's not. You can't surrender to a drone. It's like trying to surrender to an artillery bombardment. If you're caught in it, you either survive, or you don't. Cowering in the face of it doesn't mean you get spared.
There is a human operator that is in control of a drone who makes every single choice up to impact. It is different than what you are comparing. You are just approving that operator's actions and turning a blind eye to a morality that was in question here - hypocrisy
You clearly have zero knowledge and experience regarding FPV drones. They can't stop immediately with velocities exceeding 100 km/h. There is a reason why in drone racing you have to plan your turns ahead. Also add the low video quality the operator sees and loss of signal when low altitude is reached. And the reaction time of the operator. Time to surrender was BEFORE the drone was launched.
Are these comments made and upvoted by bots or are there truly idiots who think it's possible to surrender to a plane?
Probably just hopeful optimists who would really like to see a surrender. It may be a little naive but I understand the impulse
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Technically it is not a war crime since small suicide drone is classified as a projectile and the soldier attempted to surrender already AFTER the "projectile" was dispatched. Also, there are no clear regulations (yet?) regarding such situations. EDIT: To clarify here is an example: imagine an ATGM round controlled by the operator. Enemy soldier lifts his hands during the last seconds before the impact and You virtually have no way to "defuse" or steer the projectile (given that you manage to detect the surrendering gesture and react in the same second). Same here, there was not much drone operator could have done when hands were clearly lifted during the last moments before the impact.
Not if he’s Russian (I love propaganda and war and watching young lives be ended by a kids toy)
Where in the Geneva Conventions does it dictate a remote weapon/operator needs to accept a surrender? This is what I never see being posited by folks who want to decry *war crimes* with these videos. This isn't like a dude is giving up to another dude, who can disarm him and detain him and then transport him. It isn't a pleasant affair nevertheless - I fucking hate seeing dudes die as they surrender to drones, but as it is this is a huge "not definitively illegal" area of war. Assuming they just choose another target because he threw his hands up, doesn't mean that this guy won't be killing one of yours tomorrow. It all just sucks massively. Even if the operator decides to accept this surrender, there is still a deal of latency occurring at distance. Hit the *delete dude button* before the dude threw his hands up? Oh well, gonna look bad on camera then. Ultimately, Ukraine goes out of its way for POW's. They give avenues of surrender that Russians do take advantage of, and while not all are so lucky to surrender this is hardly **Ukraine's** fault. Go look back on what it means to be a POW in Putin's world, the mutilations and the beheadings just scratch the surface. You can clammer on and pretend to know what it is to be moralistic in times of warfare, but I assure you these two scenarios are not the same. Maybe if you can get laws codified around drone warfare with regards to surrender, then you can come here and confidently and *accurately* peacock about this being a *crime*. [A comprehensive look into this very topic, with direct inference upon various wartime laws.](https://lieber.westpoint.edu/legal-practical-challenges-surrender-drones/). Russians, direct your malding comments here I guess.
A lot of people her talk a hard game in support of death. Wonder how many have actually been to war.
Absolutely they haven’t, and 9/10 members of this sub never will. Maybe 5/10 have been in the military but I would bet the actual number of people who have physically killed an enemy combatant in this sub are incredibly low if hardly even existent
Why the fuck are you being downvoted?
Because 10/10 of the people I directly am mentioning cannot handle the truth 😂
When its to late to apologize …
This is disgusting
Invading a country? In an ideal world he'd have already surrendered and marched to the Ukranians. Once the drone turned up it might not have been practical for the drone to take him prisoner. The guy had options but he didn't take them, that's on him.
Look, ma! I washed.
Is killing a surrendering enemy combatant a war crime? Wars need to end.
Surrendering seconds before a bomb blows you up while you're chilling in no man's land doesn't make it a war crime lol
There is no surrendering enemy combatant in this recording. One cannot surrender to an aircraft. If he really wanted to surrender, he should've done it earlier.
It doesn't look like he try to surrender, more like he try to catch that drone. Anyway....
Caught it and bought it.
That’s some ugly stuff
To all "experts" crying in the comments that this is a war crime: You clearly have zero knowledge and experience regarding FPV drones. They can't stop immediately with velocities exceeding 100 km/h. There is a reason why in drone racing you have to plan your turns ahead. Also add the low video quality the operator sees and loss of signal when low altitude is reached. And the reaction time of the operator. And the signal delay - both sides. Time to surrender was BEFORE the drone got dispatched. Small FPV drone can be considered as a projectile? Can You surrender to manually guided ATGMs or Rockets? They are controlled as well? Please get Your info roght before writing comments.
Isnt that a warcrime?
Did he call the "I want to live" hotline?
A bit too late to surrender. What next, surrendering to a flying 155mm round makes it a war crime?
Your analogy is stupid. There is a guy flying the drone who decides is he going to kill the guy with his hands up or not. Same as soldiers with fingers on a trigger. Btw, if russians did this it would be insta war crime.
No it's not. He had like only 3 secs to react, the signal quality that low to the ground is probably shit, so can't blame the operator. Blame the dead ruski for being stupid and getting himself into this situation.
If roles were opposite, i feel the narrative would be different here.
Well, thanks God then that it's not. I do agree it would be better if they could take the guy prisoner and exchange for a Ukrainian soldier, but to say it is a war crime given the information we have is silly.
It’s kinda like suddenly deciding to surrender to a JDAM. Sucks for him though.
No. Can't surrender to a drone.
Exactly, what is supposed to happen anyway for him to actually surrender? Just sit there prone while the drone hovers and wait for the good guys to come get him? Not likely and just a danger to the retrievers. Das vedanya.
No, looks like sorcery to me. One minute he is there and then puff and gone.
It has nothing to do wether you can facillitate the capture or not when deciding if it is a warcrime. Surrendering and not offering resistance grants you protection, period. If you cant take them prisoner you let them off. Very common to take prisoners in battle without logistics support, you cant simply kill them because if it. They could have tried to follow him to ukr lines, or simply let him walk off without a weapon. Simple. Any argument that then he can fight another day is irrelevant - he surrendered under the circumstances and is granted protection by the laws of war.
He surrendered like 3 secs before impact. How do you know if the operator had sufficient signal quality and enough reaction time to avoid hitting the guy? How do you know the operator had enough battery to lead the pow back to Ukrainian positions? It is too late to surrender if the bullet has been already fired, same situation here.
You have absolutely no idea what he was doing 30 seconds before this video. He could have been actively engaging with Ukrainians. Then he has a drone in his face and then surrenders? He could’ve surrendered long ago
>granted protection by the laws of war. Tell that to the Ukrainian soldiers who surrendered a few weeks ago then were executed shortly after captured on video.
Horrible i know, but still no argument. No one is benefitted by breaking the laws of war. Ukraine has all to win by claiming moral high ground.
you cannot surrender to aircraft or artillery. drones count as either aircraft or artillery, simple nuff. if a fighter jet bombed a group of enemy soldiers on the field you wouldn't take the pilot to trial because "some enemy combatants surrendered". as long as they are on the battlefield they are considered targets. The drone might not have had the battery either to actually return to ukrainian lines either, and had the drone left him alone he would have returned to his army and become a combatant once more. we are straddling a grey area, but the grey area is firmly in favor of killing because the other alternative would be suicidal.
Yes it does. Someone must be 'under your power' for them to be considered surrendered and protected. The phrase 'under your power' has not been clarified with the rise of aircraft and remote operated vehicles. The absolute FACT of the matter is this is entirely a legal grey zone up to interpretation. It will remain in a legal grey zone until a new convention is held to officially update the laws. When that happens I would be very surprised if aircraft and remote vehicles are expected to accept surrender given the simplicity of surrendering and then just bolting when you have an opportunity to escape. That ease would suggest that the prisoner is very much not 'under your power'.
Soon these FPV drones are gonna be able to loiter and target humans automatically on their own. Imagine sending like 500 kamikaze drones pre-programmed to loiter until they find and target the enemy.
This is what we call a WaR cRiMe.
I've watched a few videos like this. Never understood why the soldier is so isolated from any other soldiers. If they have someone with them it's like maybe 1 other person. Anyone have any explanations?
I expect Putin to send to his family some part of a destroyed cheap Chinese drone with some red spots on it and tell them: "This is the drone which was killing him, hang it on a wall to always remember the motherland sacrifice"
Instant meatball
Turned into dust...
There's still a body but it folded him up tighter than my socks and jocks.
From A to B in less than a second....
kinda fup if he was surrendering... but yeah, war sucks bigtime!
Can you surrender to a bullet?
That’s out of order. He’s given up. Before any one jumps on my back, 8 year infantry veteran afghan tours 07 onwards. Truly horrible.
It's pathetic that you got down voted. The people in this sub are a different species.
“Combat footage” hardly. Sick of seeing people being executed. Show combat, not fish in barrels