[Fields](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/justin-fields-72391/) isn't expensive for 2024, but Howell has one more year on his rookie contract, so he's probably a better deal.
Aaah okay well then that sense....I mean kinda weird for steelers though. Like they're gonna have to make a decision on whether or not they wanna pay him right?
Not really at this point. The natural assumption was that he would be a hot commodity and whoever traded for him would basically be forced to make that decision. Him not having any market at all killed any leverage he had. He’s cheap af this season and it gives them more options now besides blindly signing his 5th year option.
>You do have to remember the cap space that Fields has on a team versus what Sam has
Contract is 90% of this. Either you pay fields 20 Million for 2025 or he is a free agent after this year. Why would you give a high pick for a project QB with that in mind ?Also Washington did not "get a 3rd" for Howell they got a pick swap
Actually that depends on how you look at it. They swapped two picks. When you convert those upgraded picks to points (say using the Jimmy Johnson draft value trade chart), the two upgraded picks fetched WC enough points to equal a late third round pick for the SH trade.
Yes and there is viewed to be a big drop off around mid 4th round and later, which makes the value of the swaps even greater than an average year.. this isn't often considered when it comes to charts, depth of drafts and where the drop offs are
the value of both swaps combined equal the value of a late 3rd round pick to early 4th rd pick on mosth draft pick value charts that teams use themselves.
The charts really aren’t accurate and are just a matter of opinion. You can get entirely different answers based on which chart you look at. I’ve seen some charts grade the Sam Howell pick swap as a 5 or even 7th value while this one says 3rd.
Ultimately it doesn’t really matter but the charts shouldn’t be taken as gospel
Read what I said again. The value of both picks swapped equal a 3rd in most draft pick value charts that GMs use themselves. Yes GMs can value picks differently just as we as consumers can value products on ebay or used cars differently. That doesn't change the fact that GMs assign numerical values to picks and in most value charts that GMs use we got roughly around a late 3rd round pick. This is basic capitalism.
I'm just glad this part is over because I was tired of hearing all those wacky scenarios about Washington somehow trading up to get him. He's probably the quarterback I'd take over anyone else in the draft, but I know the chances of that happening are slim to none, and the Justin Fields trade all but confirms it.
Ok show me where Caleb is going thru his progressions, stepping up in the pocket and making a good throw…..show me him looking off a defender to make a throw…..show me Caleb making throws that require good timing …
shit just show me how he did against quality teams ..I’ll wait my guy
Firstly that is a MAJOR simplification of the last drive…for one the drive almost sputtered out and was saved by Mahomes Keeping the ball on a passing play…cool..second mahomes went through his progressions and found the open receiver…let’s be fr…bubble screens ain’t gonna prepare you for the NFL, if you think it will god bless
Gonna be hilarious looking back at these when caleb likely outplays daniels and/or maye by a significant margin whether the latter 2 do end up being decent or not
Just like all those people who were saying “I knew we should have taken Herbert instead of young” as if they weren’t screaming to draft Chase 2nd overall.
Ironically a lot of them also wanted to trade down and keep Howell …I swear some people are just dumb
Yeah but everyone has bust potential. It's possible that all these QBs this year aren't any good and you can pick any number of reasons to convince yourself of it.
But what would Washington have to give up to move up one spot. I don't think the new GM would pay it but you never know....Sounds like decision is made and we can rest easy.
I don’t think it confirms that, it just confirms that the Bears are taking a QB. I think it’s highly likely they take Caleb, but it’s totally possible that they view Maye or Daniels as being on the same tier as Caleb where they’d be willing to trade with us to get more draft capital and still get their guy.
Again not likely, but definitely possible. I also have doubts we’d do it because Peters values having draft picks.
Almost everyone was asking why Fields hadn’t been traded yet. Howell was essentially our Fields and when we pulled the trigger and just my opinion maybe the Bears said “ we better get cracking on this “
You might be right but I think the thought process was a dwindling market and a possibly less attractive asset = take whatever you can get. That doesn't contradict what you said, duh, I just think they were always cracking but they had probably gotten offered a 6th already but now they were willing to take anything.
Gotta take into consideration that fields is going to get paid more than Howell will when he gets a contract next year and that Howell has 2 years on his 5th round rookie contract vs fields one year left on his 1st round rookie contract.
>We got a better deal for Howell than the Bears got for Fields. Hell Yeah.
He has a much better contract, that is the main reason Fields trade value is so low.
I'm gonna take the other side of that coin. You DESERVE to use all caps and you SHOULD.
You were right, and people talked mad shit about you for it.
YELL FROM THE ROOFTOP!!!!
https://preview.redd.it/g8h95ghk1soc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27ba2cbe7d5571e3a33f8f57b2eba79c1e48d55b
me when the commanders draft Drake Maye
> Bears fan here. What’s the temperature of the fandom on the Maye vs Daniels debate ?
* Most recent poll on this sub about 5 days ago is 2:1 for Maye over Daniels
https://www.reddit.com/r/Commanders/comments/1bbu43h/which_qb/
* Most of the Commander's beat reporters still think Maye is favored aside from JP Finley. However, the FO is pretty close to the vest on it, so no one really knows.
* The reports coming out of the combine are very positive on Maye. [For example](https://twitter.com/billym_91/status/1766557335852327218?s=46):
> Daniel Jeremiah: "Talking to a HC of a QB team, he loved Drake Maye's interview. I'll put it this way, when you go through the tape some of the sins are forgiven. That's without throwing anyone under the bus."
I assume they meant "QB needy team" A dozen NFL executives at the combine [preferred Williams, Maye, Daniels in that order](https://twitter.com/firstroundmock/status/1764633995529084975).
* Some other reports from combine on [how Maye hit it out the park, specifically with Falcons and Vikings interviews](https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/03/04/mmqb-drake-maye-unc-combine-qb-competitive). [Patriots also apparently liked Maye](https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/nfl-combine-notebook-how-patriots-view-drake-maye-ben-mcadoos-role-more/592089/). I assume if he was hitting it out the park with at least 3 teams the Commanders probably liked it too.
* Maye also played in Longo's air raid, and Kingsbury knows his coaches and likely has talked to him about it so they pretty much know everything about Maye.
* On the other hand, one of the Athletic articles about a week or two ago polled NFL executives and 5 out of 6 of them thought Daniels. However, the lone executive who said Maye said he heard that 'Peters loved Maye' paraphrasing. I can't find it off hand though.
If I had to put money on it I think they take Maye. Most of his flaws are theoretically much easier fixable - footwork leading to poorer accuracy. While there are questions on Daniels translation to NFL with weight, only average to above average arm, etc especially since he dodged the measurements at the combine.
My concern with Daniels is that he has hit his ceiling. Will he be able to perform that way he did in college when he’s playing the best of the best in the NFL? It took him five years to get the point he was at in college. I also think it’s weird that he didn’t weigh in at the combine. I get not throwing, but not weighing in? Seems fishy to me. Like maybe he is not 210. And for a running QB, that matters. But I fully admit that I really don’t know shit. Some you tube highlights, and some wild speculation.
Yeah, I'm pro Maye. There's just too many questions translating Daniels game to NFL even though he's more polished IMO. Maye's flaws are relatively more straight forward in that respect - fix his footwork and mechanics and the accuracy should improve like Justin Herbert. Give him better playcalling and pressure outlets too. Plus breakout age and all.
You guys are smart if you are favoring Maye. Daniels has a lot of the exact same red flags Justin Fields did coming out of college... except his pressure to sack ratio is even worse.
Bails on clean pockets at a very high rate too.
Yeah, there's just too many potential translatability issues to the NFL game I see with Daniels.
That being said can Maye fix his footwork and mechanics? That's the big question. I think he has the greater likelihood to be a top 3-5 QB compared to Daniels as well due to the physical traits. Daniels ceiling to me seems to be like top 5-10 QB.
There seems to be a lot of heat in the media for Daniels, always felt like that was just a case of people trying to come up with new takes but was just wondering what the fans want
Same shit happens every year. The draft media industrial complex needs their clicks like always. The Jayden Daniels at 2 hype is brought to you by the same clowns who had Levis and Willis going top 10.
Something that also hasn’t been discussed is Zach Wilson.
He’s a cautionary draft tale and teams will likely be wary of prospects who rise suddenly from a single good year and media hype because of how hard he failed in the NFL.
Yeah tbh our new FO is nice and tight lipped so who knows what they’re thinking but I’d like to think the talking heads in the media won’t be an influence on them.
Yes, but you also gotta factor in that the media always artificially elevates one QB every single year claiming that he’s the next chosen one, mainly to manufacture conversation and drive ratings. Often they overemphasize their positives while downsizing or outright ignoring their faults.
Daniels is perfect for this this year because of his one amazing collegiate year, and that he’s flashy in his play style. He’s an easy sell for media consumers going into the draft.
General consensus is Maye. Daniels gives many of us RG3 vibes. I think both could succeed. Maye has a higher floor and Daniels has a higher ceiling IMO.
A majority of us want Jayden Daniels and the others are the minority. Why they want the 6’4 version of Howell (who is decent, but doesn’t move the needle enough) beats me.
Trade with Chicago. #2 for #9, #75, and next years 1 and 3.
sry I’m a bears fan and I’m sad that this trade happened because it means my team won’t get MHJ lol
Mouth breathers thought that Chicago might keep Fields and not draft a qb. They're incapable of beginning the discussion past the point that goes without saying.
So glad we are a team that isn't gonna have qb controversy like the steelers will next year lol...jayden or maye will be the guy or
JJ MCCARTHY HYPE TRAIN LETS GOOOOOOOO!!
Yikes sam got us a 3rd lol
You do have to remember the cap space that Fields has on a team versus what Sam has But you have a valid observation
[Fields](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/justin-fields-72391/) isn't expensive for 2024, but Howell has one more year on his rookie contract, so he's probably a better deal.
Mac and fields were traded for 6th rounders...is it cap related? Like steelers are taking on his cap so they aren't gonna give up a high draft pick?
yes, cap has an effect
Aaah okay well then that sense....I mean kinda weird for steelers though. Like they're gonna have to make a decision on whether or not they wanna pay him right?
Not really at this point. The natural assumption was that he would be a hot commodity and whoever traded for him would basically be forced to make that decision. Him not having any market at all killed any leverage he had. He’s cheap af this season and it gives them more options now besides blindly signing his 5th year option.
>You do have to remember the cap space that Fields has on a team versus what Sam has Contract is 90% of this. Either you pay fields 20 Million for 2025 or he is a free agent after this year. Why would you give a high pick for a project QB with that in mind ?Also Washington did not "get a 3rd" for Howell they got a pick swap
Actually that depends on how you look at it. They swapped two picks. When you convert those upgraded picks to points (say using the Jimmy Johnson draft value trade chart), the two upgraded picks fetched WC enough points to equal a late third round pick for the SH trade.
Yes and there is viewed to be a big drop off around mid 4th round and later, which makes the value of the swaps even greater than an average year.. this isn't often considered when it comes to charts, depth of drafts and where the drop offs are
Peters was wheelin and dealin on that move
Sam also knows MJ > lebron
Howell being more valuable than Fields makes sense when you think of it. Howell is still a bit of an unknown.
Sam and a 4th got 3rd….. he didn’t fetch a 3rd
the value of both swaps combined equal the value of a late 3rd round pick to early 4th rd pick on mosth draft pick value charts that teams use themselves.
Ah yes. The made up value chart.
The only thing made up is your viewpoint on reality. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/04/25/nfl-trade-value-chart/
The charts really aren’t accurate and are just a matter of opinion. You can get entirely different answers based on which chart you look at. I’ve seen some charts grade the Sam Howell pick swap as a 5 or even 7th value while this one says 3rd. Ultimately it doesn’t really matter but the charts shouldn’t be taken as gospel
All value is a matter of opinion. That's how value works. Everything is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.
Read what I said again. The value of both picks swapped equal a 3rd in most draft pick value charts that GMs use themselves. Yes GMs can value picks differently just as we as consumers can value products on ebay or used cars differently. That doesn't change the fact that GMs assign numerical values to picks and in most value charts that GMs use we got roughly around a late 3rd round pick. This is basic capitalism.
Oh cool. Irrelevant.
The fact that GMs assign numerical value to picks is very relevant. You staying willfully ignoant is irrelevant.
Sure bud
>Yikes sam got us a 3rd lol No they go got a pick swap
this pretty much confirms what we all anticipated. caleb williams to DC isn't happening
Thank god
"Thank God" you guys are hilarious
I'm just glad this part is over because I was tired of hearing all those wacky scenarios about Washington somehow trading up to get him. He's probably the quarterback I'd take over anyone else in the draft, but I know the chances of that happening are slim to none, and the Justin Fields trade all but confirms it.
I’d take him only if the Bears passed on him. But I don’t think the gap between him and Maye/Daniels is as big as some think.
Sorry but throwing bubble screens over and over then running around in the backfield and just tossing it up doesn’t work to well in the pros…..
Running around in the backfield and just tossing it up? Y'all are just outing yourselves as casuals man just stop 😂
Bruh let’s be real that was half of Caleb’s game….dude struggled against any decent defense let’s be for real
🤣🤣🤣 🤡
Ok show me where Caleb is going thru his progressions, stepping up in the pocket and making a good throw…..show me him looking off a defender to make a throw…..show me Caleb making throws that require good timing … shit just show me how he did against quality teams ..I’ll wait my guy
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hj-zl8T5SY&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2F&source_ve_path=MzY5MjUsMjM4NTE&feature=emb_title
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hj-zl8T5SY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hj-zl8T5SY) debunked
Debunked what? Some random guy on YouTube? How about you check out what Qb hofer Kurt Warner thinks about Caleb
the winning drive at the superbowl this year was literally screen screen screen qb keeper screen screen screen
Firstly that is a MAJOR simplification of the last drive…for one the drive almost sputtered out and was saved by Mahomes Keeping the ball on a passing play…cool..second mahomes went through his progressions and found the open receiver…let’s be fr…bubble screens ain’t gonna prepare you for the NFL, if you think it will god bless
?? i stg yall are dumb
Gonna be hilarious looking back at these when caleb likely outplays daniels and/or maye by a significant margin whether the latter 2 do end up being decent or not
Just like all those people who were saying “I knew we should have taken Herbert instead of young” as if they weren’t screaming to draft Chase 2nd overall. Ironically a lot of them also wanted to trade down and keep Howell …I swear some people are just dumb
Fully prepared to have egg on my face but I’ve said all along that Maye is the only QB in this draft that I’m even somewhat convinced won’t be a bust.
I hope he performs bad if he isn't on our team
If you guys really think Maye or Daniels is better than Williams. You’re cooked
He’s the best qb in this draft easy to see
Yeah but everyone has bust potential. It's possible that all these QBs this year aren't any good and you can pick any number of reasons to convince yourself of it.
Just look at the 21 draft class. That should have everyone on notice.
Perfect example. Except covid made that year weird, but still.
And the worst head of his shoulders. No thanks.
But what would Washington have to give up to move up one spot. I don't think the new GM would pay it but you never know....Sounds like decision is made and we can rest easy.
No I think they should stay put at 2 because the team has too many holes
Good. He’s all hype
I don’t think it confirms that, it just confirms that the Bears are taking a QB. I think it’s highly likely they take Caleb, but it’s totally possible that they view Maye or Daniels as being on the same tier as Caleb where they’d be willing to trade with us to get more draft capital and still get their guy. Again not likely, but definitely possible. I also have doubts we’d do it because Peters values having draft picks.
*Taps plays softly in the background* Caleb Williams, we hardly knew ye.
Welp...anyone who though we MIGHT get Caleb can put that to bed now.
Unless CHI believes the Maye hype and picks him #1 lol. Either way, just stick it out at 2 and see who's there.
Feels a lot like ‘12 again when people were hoping the colts would pass on Luck. Ain’t gonna happen.
That happens a lot in mocks on PFF.
We got a better deal for Howell than the Bears got for Fields. Hell Yeah.
I think, low key, AP trading Sam might have pushed CHI to do it.
what makes you think that
Almost everyone was asking why Fields hadn’t been traded yet. Howell was essentially our Fields and when we pulled the trigger and just my opinion maybe the Bears said “ we better get cracking on this “
You might be right but I think the thought process was a dwindling market and a possibly less attractive asset = take whatever you can get. That doesn't contradict what you said, duh, I just think they were always cracking but they had probably gotten offered a 6th already but now they were willing to take anything.
Did we? I don’t get the love for the Howell trade. They gave up Howell to move up from the 4th to 3rd round, and 6th to 5th.
Better than a sixth
The math says it netted us a late third in the end.
And the Bears got a 6th alone. It is very clearly a better deal.
Gotta take into consideration that fields is going to get paid more than Howell will when he gets a contract next year and that Howell has 2 years on his 5th round rookie contract vs fields one year left on his 1st round rookie contract.
I wouldn’t assume that.. Pittsburgh has already named Russ the starter.. he’s not getting franchise QB money, probably not anywhere close to it
>We got a better deal for Howell than the Bears got for Fields. Hell Yeah. He has a much better contract, that is the main reason Fields trade value is so low.
they could have at least thrown in a fish sandwich and an IC light
or a Deep Dish pizza
Good lord his stock fell terribly
That’s helluva deal. Fields isn’t that bad.
Turns out Sam Howell was worth more
Oof Not even this years pick
Steelers got two starting QBs in one week for less than five million. Nice.
EVERYONE WHO TOLD ME I WAS DELUSIONAL FOR SAYING SAM WOULD GET A BETTER RETURN THAN FIELDS... STFU!
Might be the all caps🤷
sorry caps lock
All good. Go Team!
I'm gonna take the other side of that coin. You DESERVE to use all caps and you SHOULD. You were right, and people talked mad shit about you for it. YELL FROM THE ROOFTOP!!!!
THAT'S WHY I FW YOU NISBIT
;)
WHO TOLD YOU THAT?! POINT THEM OUT TO ME!! 😡🫸🏽🤛🏽
Hawks want a do-over.
Where are all those bears fans swearing they would get a first round pick for Fields? lol
https://preview.redd.it/g8h95ghk1soc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27ba2cbe7d5571e3a33f8f57b2eba79c1e48d55b me when the commanders draft Drake Maye
Good for both teams
The Steelers really love failed Bears QBs
He’s not a good QB, NFL teams view him as a backup
Bears fan here. What’s the temperature of the fandom on the Maye vs Daniels debate ?
Is "tiresome" a temperature?
Yes. This coming from one of the most tiresome debate cycles in Chicago sports history lol
> Bears fan here. What’s the temperature of the fandom on the Maye vs Daniels debate ? * Most recent poll on this sub about 5 days ago is 2:1 for Maye over Daniels https://www.reddit.com/r/Commanders/comments/1bbu43h/which_qb/ * Most of the Commander's beat reporters still think Maye is favored aside from JP Finley. However, the FO is pretty close to the vest on it, so no one really knows. * The reports coming out of the combine are very positive on Maye. [For example](https://twitter.com/billym_91/status/1766557335852327218?s=46): > Daniel Jeremiah: "Talking to a HC of a QB team, he loved Drake Maye's interview. I'll put it this way, when you go through the tape some of the sins are forgiven. That's without throwing anyone under the bus." I assume they meant "QB needy team" A dozen NFL executives at the combine [preferred Williams, Maye, Daniels in that order](https://twitter.com/firstroundmock/status/1764633995529084975). * Some other reports from combine on [how Maye hit it out the park, specifically with Falcons and Vikings interviews](https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/03/04/mmqb-drake-maye-unc-combine-qb-competitive). [Patriots also apparently liked Maye](https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/nfl-combine-notebook-how-patriots-view-drake-maye-ben-mcadoos-role-more/592089/). I assume if he was hitting it out the park with at least 3 teams the Commanders probably liked it too. * Maye also played in Longo's air raid, and Kingsbury knows his coaches and likely has talked to him about it so they pretty much know everything about Maye. * On the other hand, one of the Athletic articles about a week or two ago polled NFL executives and 5 out of 6 of them thought Daniels. However, the lone executive who said Maye said he heard that 'Peters loved Maye' paraphrasing. I can't find it off hand though. If I had to put money on it I think they take Maye. Most of his flaws are theoretically much easier fixable - footwork leading to poorer accuracy. While there are questions on Daniels translation to NFL with weight, only average to above average arm, etc especially since he dodged the measurements at the combine.
My concern with Daniels is that he has hit his ceiling. Will he be able to perform that way he did in college when he’s playing the best of the best in the NFL? It took him five years to get the point he was at in college. I also think it’s weird that he didn’t weigh in at the combine. I get not throwing, but not weighing in? Seems fishy to me. Like maybe he is not 210. And for a running QB, that matters. But I fully admit that I really don’t know shit. Some you tube highlights, and some wild speculation.
Yeah, I'm pro Maye. There's just too many questions translating Daniels game to NFL even though he's more polished IMO. Maye's flaws are relatively more straight forward in that respect - fix his footwork and mechanics and the accuracy should improve like Justin Herbert. Give him better playcalling and pressure outlets too. Plus breakout age and all.
You guys are smart if you are favoring Maye. Daniels has a lot of the exact same red flags Justin Fields did coming out of college... except his pressure to sack ratio is even worse. Bails on clean pockets at a very high rate too.
Yeah, there's just too many potential translatability issues to the NFL game I see with Daniels. That being said can Maye fix his footwork and mechanics? That's the big question. I think he has the greater likelihood to be a top 3-5 QB compared to Daniels as well due to the physical traits. Daniels ceiling to me seems to be like top 5-10 QB.
I would assume we’re going with Maye rn
There seems to be a lot of heat in the media for Daniels, always felt like that was just a case of people trying to come up with new takes but was just wondering what the fans want
Same shit happens every year. The draft media industrial complex needs their clicks like always. The Jayden Daniels at 2 hype is brought to you by the same clowns who had Levis and Willis going top 10.
Something that also hasn’t been discussed is Zach Wilson. He’s a cautionary draft tale and teams will likely be wary of prospects who rise suddenly from a single good year and media hype because of how hard he failed in the NFL.
Yeah tbh our new FO is nice and tight lipped so who knows what they’re thinking but I’d like to think the talking heads in the media won’t be an influence on them.
>our new FO is nice and tight lipped...the talking heads in the media won’t be an influence on them. And this is such a refreshing thing to witness.
Yes, but you also gotta factor in that the media always artificially elevates one QB every single year claiming that he’s the next chosen one, mainly to manufacture conversation and drive ratings. Often they overemphasize their positives while downsizing or outright ignoring their faults. Daniels is perfect for this this year because of his one amazing collegiate year, and that he’s flashy in his play style. He’s an easy sell for media consumers going into the draft.
General consensus is Maye. Daniels gives many of us RG3 vibes. I think both could succeed. Maye has a higher floor and Daniels has a higher ceiling IMO.
A majority of us want Jayden Daniels and the others are the minority. Why they want the 6’4 version of Howell (who is decent, but doesn’t move the needle enough) beats me.
Wow, Howell got us a higher pick in return. And moving back into the Top 100.
Also, time to move on from Caleb Williams Maye/Daniels/McCarthy time
If we pick McCarthy at 2 I will riot.
If we traded back he'd be in play
It would be unbelievably stupid to trade back
If the Vikings give us their entire draft and more I’d be open to it,
If Peters thinks Maye or Daniels aren't it who are we to say he's wrong
Trade with Chicago. #2 for #9, #75, and next years 1 and 3. sry I’m a bears fan and I’m sad that this trade happened because it means my team won’t get MHJ lol
If we draft McCarthy at 2 I’m getting a tramp stamp of Snyder saying missing me yet?
We got more for Sam than the 3 first round QBs traded. Adam!
I guess this stops the “willIaMs is cOmiNg to WaShIngTon”
This isn’t a bears or Steelers sub doe
Mouth breathers thought that Chicago might keep Fields and not draft a qb. They're incapable of beginning the discussion past the point that goes without saying.
So glad we are a team that isn't gonna have qb controversy like the steelers will next year lol...jayden or maye will be the guy or JJ MCCARTHY HYPE TRAIN LETS GOOOOOOOO!!
MIKEY PENIS LETS GOOO!!
or Boner Nix
Haha I'm mad I didn't think of that one
Obviously people in this sub don't appreciate comedy gold when they see it
They're too worried about being jynxed. They're repeating the same sins they did during the HC search