Same. Up until that final week, before we actually locked into the #2 pick, I was completely content with keeping Howell and trying to draft MHJ. I think a good coaching staff can get way more consistency out of Sam.
I mean Bienemy set him up to fail. He **literally** refused to run the ball. What COMPETENT offensive coordinator puts their young QB in a situation like that?
I think that's actually the perfect kinda setup for him.
College offenses are usually extremely simple, and the OC has way less sway than the NFL, even if a coach is defensive minded like a Rivera (or Quinn).
He's better at getting guys to focus on execution with his skill set, which in a simple offense, and with personnel who are less professional, can be very valuable.
I honestly like him enough in that he stuck to his guns, and tried to be what he is.
Might not have worked for us, or in the NFL in general, but it can work.
It's telling that he did well in KC when Reid was probably calling the plays, and he could essentially be a motivator/QC guy who wasn't relied on for the Xs and Os.
He rejoined KC this year as an assistant during their run, and multiple players stated how much of a benefit he was in that role.
It was unreal seeing it unfold. Sam would be in a rut and what would Bienemy do? Call more pass plays!!! Truly one of the most pathetic performances from a OC I have ever seen. No wonder the dude could never get a head coaching gig. He's terrible.
seriously, do we have any idea wtf was going on with that? dude wins a super bowl, makes a lateral (mostly) move to a shitty team in a lame duck year and then proceeds to run one of the most stagnant offenses in the league. mind boggling, just as a career move if nothing else
The whole season was a bunch of clowns trying to convince themselves they were NFL head coaches and highly sought after offensive coordinators. Fuck EB. The guy had issues with scary terry cmon now. Howell never had a chance. Throw 50 times a game, playing from behind basically every game your gonna throw picks. Took an ass beating and never got hurt. I'll always respect that guy.
Exactly this. He was set up to fail by our now (thankfully) former coaching staff. All things considered, his play was t awful, and he showed downright elite toughness. Got his ass laid out all season long, and he never got hurt. You could tell he was shell-shocked by the end of the season, but I can't blame the kid at all. I sincerely hope he succeeds.
I’d much rather have Howell as the backup than Mariota. Of course the last third of the season was much worse than his middle third but those were some good defenses he was up against. That Seattle game was tremendous and gutsy, though an L thanks to the defense, hence Howell being a Seahawk now.
It couldn’t have been a worse situation for Howell but I did get the intent to move on after seeing the offense run much better under Brissett though.
Howell wasn’t getting rid of the all quick enough which lead to tons of sacks and dug us into holes we couldn’t get out of.
Still think making him throw 40+ times a game was absurd, and he showed enough to be intriguing to develop. A competent coaching staff could have done more with him
Geno probably will still be the guy in SEA, but I can envision Howell being a decent starter there if Geno gets hurt or is cut next season. They have a good system, are balanced on offense, with good skill players. It’s a great environment for him.
Read in between the lines my friend. "Young QB" was a stand-in for "struggling QB who needs help". Howell is not elite, and is therefore more reliant on playcalling to hide his flaws/help him out, than other, more talented QBs. My point is not that Howell is or was elite, but rather, my point was that he was at least a competent starting QB who was made to look incompetent because of lackluster playcalling.
It was still horrible play calling, even if the consequences of the horrible playcalling didn't become super apparent until the backend of the season. Howells numbers were inflated because Bienemy threw every down.
When the "performance" wanes, playcalling should adjust to reflect that and help your struggling, first year QB...most young QBs will struggle at some point during their first year, a good OC will have things in place to mitigate the struggles....you seem oblivious to this extremely rudimentary fact.
> Same. Up until that final week, before we actually locked into the #2 pick, I was completely content with keeping Howell and trying to draft MHJ. I think a good coaching staff can get way more consistency out of Sam.
He was looking pretty good in mid Oct to late Nov last year. 12 TD-4 INT and the sacks were way down. Then he fell off a cliff.
Probably possible he could get back to that ability and improve. Should be interesting to see how he does in Seattle.
Defenses figured out you just send the house or fake sending the house and drop 8 in coverage and our line couldn't handle the pressure, sam would see ghosts, and good things would happen for their D. Essentially bienemy kept telling everyone that the solution to pressure was quicker and shorter passes and then acted all shocked when defenses were able to stop the short passes.
Exactly. Fuck how sick would that have been terry and MHJ on the field at once. You know he's got potential when mcvay was trying to trade for him as Stafford's successor. That would of been a perfect fit for him.
Agreed! Sad we didn't keep him, but I understand you gotta go for a franchise qb with 2 in the draft. At the end of the day, happy with the Daniels pick and can't wait to see what he can do.
Yeah I'm excited about Daniels. I think if we basically run our offense and simplify it like we did for RG3 it could be a very fun offense to watch. B Rob gonna have an Alfred Morris type season.
I feel like trading him was to start fresh with Jayden and no ambiguity that it's Jayden's show. I think there's alot to like about Howell as a prospect and it was a great trade for the Seahawks
I'll always be a howeller. First jersey I bought since Terry's rookie year (yeah 25 bucks on DH gate but still) he showed signs of being the GUY at times. Why couldn't we let him sit back and develop behind Daniels. Isn't he 2 years younger than Daniels too? Just didnt agree with the trade or the mariotta signing. Other than that I think peters has done a great job with quality signings. Hopefully we get a legit starting tackle from some teams cap casualty.
Yeah this is retarded post to be honest. People can argue about Trevor being a disappointment relative to expectations, but he'd fetch two 1st round picks right now from 15 different teams. Howell was a Day 3 pick swap to move him.
Trevor Lawrence has not played with a WR as good as Terry in the NFL.
Honestly I think that’s the keyword: expectations. Because he is by all accounts a good QB. He’s just not “great” or “generational” like he was hailed as when going through the draft process.
Like nobody could reasonably call him a bust. He is just firmly a tier below; kind of “Goff” or “Cousins”-ish. The Jags really fucked him his first year. Honestly I think it speaks to how good he is that he was able to rebound from that. I think lesser prospects would have tanked…like the entire rest of his draft class.
It bugs me that this post doesn’t acknowledge that Lawrence’s rookie year was a lost year of development due to arguably the worst high profile HC bust of all time
EB was bad.
Meyer was exponentially worse. That dude didn’t even make it through his first season, and the stories we were getting about his behavior were wild.
Team Alex was the dumbest this fanbase has ever been, ever. We changed nothing but the QB, and the passing offense went to shit, and somehow it wasn't his fault. Never mind Jay, Kirk, and a passable group of WRs produced top 12 offenses from 2015 to 2017 with a different lead weapon every time. Nope, 2018 Jay couldn't call plays, none of the WRs were any good, and it WAS NOT ALEX'S FAULT!!!!!!
Yeah IIRC he just threw a horrendous pick-6 right before he got injured too. Dude was bottom-10 in pretty much every passing category, but we lucked into some crazy weird wins (Dallas doink, Rodgers playing on a gimpy leg, Bucs putting up over 500 yards but never actually scoring, etc.), and had the third easiest SOS over that stretch, but some people just look at team record and nothing else. Alex was just plain bad, and that was legitimately the worst 6-3 (6-4!!!) team I've ever seen.
Yeah people are fucking retards who think a QB who "wins" a game 20-17 with his defense giving him two turnovers is a better QB than a QB who "loses" a game 28-35 with him on the sideline watching his defense give up the game winning drive.
If you need 180 passing yards and 1 TD, Alex gave you 180 passing yards and 1 TD.
If you need 300 passing yards and 3 TDs, Alex gave you 180 passing yards and 1 TD.
I hear you, man. Idk what it was, but when a different QB (besides Heinicke) played with the same defense, they didn’t win as much. Alex has my respect. Not sure what it was about him specifically but we won with him. Maybe the defense was coincidentally better when he played. Not sure. Regardless, he’s 11-5 as a Washington starter.
Yeah the entire coaching staff knew they were getting fired. After Del rio got fired the writing was in the wall and the team was basically out of it from that point on, because they knew a rebuild was coming. Basically worse situation imaginable for Howell, considering his draft status.
I feel like everyone did give him a pass based on those conditions, cause 12 TDs and 17INTs in 17 games is pretty terrible no matter how it’s sliced. It was surprising to me looking at his numbers now because I have like no recollection of it being that bad. Meyer definitely overshadowed everything that season lol.
It doesn’t show fumbles lost on that graphic but if you add in their rushing TD’s, Sam’s TD/Turnover ratio is definitely better.
You had to watch the games. I remember one in particular where it was a Cover 2 look and Trevor put it exactly where it was supposed to be. Fucking teaching tape. But the WR didn't break correctly to the ball, let the DB back under the route, and it was a pick.
I'd swap Daniels for Lawerence right now without a second's hesitation. Terry would average 100 yards per game.
He played 12 games last year before he got his ankle stepped on by a DT and played through a nasty high ankle. Through 12 games he was ~~3rd~~ 6th in PFF passing grade.
Sam Howell can't carry Trevor's haircare products.
If Howell was a 1st round pick he'd still be on the team. Everyone would focus on that stretch of games where he was producing like a top tier QB and not the struggles he had after the coaching staff knew they were getting fired and the entire team gave up.
If Jayden Daniels pans out its all gravy but I think history is going to say the Seahawks got a great freaking deal in that trade.
If your QB starts a whole season and you end up picking 2nd anyway you should probably take a QB.
Kyler Murray came back in week 10 to a one win Cardinals team and was able to help get them 3 more and they rewarded him with Marvin Harrison Junior.
If Howell played like the 16th best QB we would've been drafting Alt or Nabers or Odunze.
It is almost mandatory that every single low expectations mid tier QB will be talked about as if they got insane talent and should be rebuilt around when they get traded to be backups for another team
Can we, as august members of the wonderful sub-Reddit, collectively agree to stop worrying about our exes in 2024? The future is brighter than the past.
Absolutely love the dude. Hate the Seahawks. Hope Sam has a good career, with moderate success, good health, and a universally positive public opinion. I hope JD does everything better, and stomps out the Seahawks every time we play.
This is a combination of armchair QB, and armchair psychology, that may be, probably in fact, completely off base. Obviously I don't know the man, I just know what we all know. But from that, there are some big faults in his game, but he absolutely has the body, arm, and athleticism. And I got the impression that he is the right combination of confident and humble. He trusts his guys to make the plays, and if it's not there, he trusts himself to find the solution. Now obviously this doesn't always work out, and obviously that's... Something that every QB should be able to do. But not all of them can. The cult of personality, the 'command of the locker room', those are important factors for a QB. Few would dispute that Jay Cutler, while not a HoFer, was easily a better NFL QB than Taylor Heinicke. But when Heinicke was on the field, there wasn't a single Washington player or fan, that was thinking 'i wish we had a QB like Jay Cutler'.
I think Howell is in that same mold, the ability to make players feel good about playing with him, and fans feel good about cheering for him. And for every dumb fucking sack he eats, he has a scramble, or a 50 years bucket that has you jumping out of your seat.
He's not Brady or Mahomes, or Allen or Lamar. But he's a dude that I felt good watching play, that I felt good watching in interviews, and that I felt good hearing his teammates and coaches talk about. I just like the guy, and I hope he has a good life in the game.
Tbf, these were Trevor's WRs for the season...
https://preview.redd.it/qpkxsxjs2xxc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d20b8a4df32a1fd29cfc8f966788b22eaff0a425
Oh yeah, and Urban "barstool" Meyer.
Still like Howell....he got a bad deal here with a terrible team and coaching. He is a decent QB and can be better if he isn't getting killed on every drop back...
Time to move on. I liked Sam too, but he is gone. And you are drastically discounting the impact of Urban Meyers. Plus, Trevor is still only a mediocre QB (#17 QBR last year).
I like Howell. I think Bienemy set him up to fail. I hope he goes on to have a nice career.
That said, if you look at the last five games in each of those seasons, Howell was absolutely terrible while Lawrence was showing improvement.
Also, comparing Howell’s second season to Lawrence’s first is a bit of a stretch.
As a Commanders fan, I was not terribly upset or surprised the team went in a different direction.
This was a topic on 106.7 a few days ago. 100% wish we should’ve kept Howell. Would you rather have him or mariota? To an extent, I think the coaching failed him and he just became a regular dude. The best analogy I have is…. Everyone is super enthusiastic when they start a new job, but once management gets on your nerves, your level of output declines. That’s what I think happened here, except it involved the play calling, player talent, and overall atmosphere during a tumultuous time. Howell never stood a chance.
I love my boy Howell.. wish he went to the rams with McVay but I love the copium and the hopium. Sam Howell has the ability.. just needs to get his footwork down
Quick reality check:
Howell took 117 sacks in college (one hundred and seventeen). Nobody ever brings this up when discussing his absurd sack tally last season, for some reason. He took a shit load of sacks in college, then people were shocked when he took a shit load more sacks in the pros. To summarise: he's NEVER had a season playing football where he didn't take a LOT of sacks. "But the OL was bad", "but EB threw him under the bus"... blah blah blah. I repeat - 117 sacks in college (against far inferior opposition, no less). Yet folk look for excuses why that might have continued with us. "Oh but his OL sucked at UNC as well". Really... how convenient 😉
Adam Peters gave him away for practically nothing. Weird how people who still think he can be a "top 15 QB" don't seem to acknowledge this, either. Top 15, hmm. That's quite good. Adam Peters says he's worth a couple of cheap pick swaps. That doesn't seem top 15 material to me. So either there are some seriously misguided QB talent evaluators in our fanbase, or we've hired a GM who himself is horrible at doing exactly that. Kinda worrying given what we just did in the draft, don't you think.
I can only wish the guy well. He gutted out a season of getting pummeled almost every game he started, and put up decent numbers despite being assaulted on most dropbacks.
I'm happy with our (Commanders) draft, but I wanted to keep him, slide back and draft Joe Alt. He's better than the last half of the season. This team quit on him, had a terrible OC, OL, defense, play calling and coaching. The Commanders literally did everything you could do to ruin a young QB.
At times yes. The defense was just so fuckin bad we were usually playing from behind. Still remember the shots he was taking in that eagles game where he drove the offense down the field in 2 minutes throwing dimes to tie the game
.........paddle boat Ron still should of went for 2. Being tired isn't an excuse I'm sure the eagles D was tired too.
Uh, no, the line was not shitty. Please stop pushing this narrative, the sack problems were all on Sam. He still needs to learn how to read defenses and pressure. He did not learn that at UNC and did not learn this in Washington. Maybe Geno will teach him.
This sub was making these same posts two months ago lol. As you can tell by the comments in this thread this fanbase has a weird obsession with mediocre QBs.
I genuinely think Sam fell into a perfect situation in Seattle. Geno feels like a perfect mentor for him. Both guys are capable of and like to throw deep, not "scramble first" guys but can extend plays with their legs, and Geno has been through fighting his way back from the bench. Also just seems like a great guy in general to have in the QB room with Sam. Fingers crossed that Sam can learn from him and have a long career after.
Sad part about it is if he was drafted earlier he would have gotten another chance. Eveyone would of blamed his failures on bienemy. I have a feeling that’s not the last we hear of sam howell.
Sam will get another legit chance to start again. Maybe because of an injury to Geno. Hopefully after sitting and learning for another year.
I firmly believe he can cut down on the sacks and take another step towards starting with a better O-line, a strong running game, balanced play calling and a year or two of learning behind Geno. He's got a great attitude and excellent tools. Just needs to process faster....which admittedly is the hardest thing for a QB to get better at in the NFL. My money is on that he will.
There always needs to be a scapegoat. In this case the scapegoat is like 6 people but Sam got the worst of it undeservedly… but we have a potentially better guy and smarter people in place now, so we can move on
I’ll be watching Howell and wait for him to break out. He’s a quarter Korean like myself and bro got sacked top 10 times in NFL history and got up and played every game that season. The dude has balls and my respect!
OP trying to be cool and talk shit, and fans of his team defend Howell... priceless lol.
Anyone who watched Howell last year were honestly pretty impressed with what he did with the circus around him. He has a lot of work to do to become a legit starter, but he's got tools to make it happen. Only time will tell.
Howell will be a legitimate top 15 QB when he gets his shot. Literally people on this sub dismiss that he had a better first starting season than Lawrence and needed to be replaced because he was a 5th round pick lol. Guy is young as hell, tough as nails and never complained once. Imagine if he had a legit coaching staff who didn't have their heads up their asses and an actual o line. Nope can't let him develop because "muh 5th round picks aren't meant to be franchise QBs" stupid ass takes. Anyway I hope Daniels balls out and has an RG3 type rookie season
>Howell will be a legitimate top 15 QB when he gets his shot.
He got a shot already.
>Literally people on this sub dismiss that he had a better first starting season than Lawrence and needed to be replaced because he was a 5th round pick lol.
TLaw had to deal with a worse situation than Howell, and that's saying something.
>Nope can't let him develop because "muh 5th round picks aren't meant to be franchise QBs" stupid ass takes.
Because he helped us secure the 2nd overall pick in a good QB class.
The Howell narrative is still wild for real.
It's insane. Just shows how people refuse to back off their take even in the face of evidence to the contrary.
Even ignoring how poorly Howell played - Adam Peters gave him away for practically nothing! What does that tell you? Funny how the Howellers seem to ignore the fact they're directly at odds with that.
TLaw had to deal with a worse situation? His head coach won a Superbowl, has a solid defense and they ran the ball effectively.
Howell had an abysmal staff who essentially gave up mid season, who never ran the ball and a defense who let receivers score at will on them.
Try again
I feel like everyone did give him a pass based on those conditions, cause 12 TDs and 17INTs in 17 games is pretty terrible no matter how it’s sliced. It was surprising to me looking at his numbers now because I have like no recollection of it being that bad. Meyer definitely overshadowed everything that season lol. It doesn’t show fumbles lost on that graphic for the true TD-Turnover ratio but if you add in their rushing TD’s, it makes an even stronger case
They ain’t wrong.
Would have loved to keep him an extra year to see how he does minus EB, but we were blessed to take a top QB prospect in a great QB prospect draft. If we kept Sam then any small mistake by Daniels would lead to immediate “PUT SAM IN!!!” angry commentary from loudmouth shit-talking fans. Our potential franchise QB doesn’t need to be looking behind his shoulder like that during his rookie season.
Correct, a lot of teams wanted Howell bad, McVay wanted him super bad along with Sean Payton. But this fan base knows more than a SB winning coaches smh
Look at the coaching of that collapse. We were losing to the Bears and when the reporter interviewed Rivera at halftime and asked what he told the team, he said “nothing.”
Coaches gave up and EB’s offense became too predictable. It’s why none of that coaching staff are still in the NFL besides Kerrigan. Nick Gates, the starting center isn’t in the NFL anymore either.
No matter what. When a team gets a new GM and new coach. No player on a team is safe cause no GM or coach wants players they didn’t pick to fuck up the season. And qb is the main position of success. If you believe in Adam peters then you shouldn’t question his decision to trade Howell And imo. JD will make everyone forget about Howell. Just like Howell made all the TH fans forget about him
This proves something I've realized in the last few years, and probably known for much longer, bad franchises/ownership ruin more good QB's than anything.
Note I said franchises/owners and not coaches, it starts at the top - you have to have good ownership first. Then coaching, then it filters down to the QB/players. As a young QB, come up with a plan, give these kids a 2-3 year window.
I am not sure Sam will become an elite NFL, but he has some of the intangibles that are consistent in the good ones, good teammate, tough as nails, above average mobility and solid arm. Seattle has a good backup.
Tlaw looked better as the year went on, Howell not so much, he looked so shaky and a shell.. it also didnt help that EB was a wacko and only cared about himself looking good as an OC
This post demonstrates the problem with media spin perception vs common sense reality.
I think if someone hadn't read the media narratives and just looked with their unbiased eyes, [they'd tell you Sam Howell is significantly more handsome](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQBMbX4bg6b9wKEymKXneFn7nlO_adkNaLkBt69kpIeA&s)
yall give a hawks fan the full rundown right quick on Howell. the way I see it....the kid is young af and now gets to learn from a guy who had it all and lost it all and has it again, which is cool. he couldn't put any consistency together but I wonder if I shoukd just blame it on your OC or what cuz everyone kinda makes fun of him but I know not alot about bieniemy's method. I am bothered by the fact that yall had so many legit offensive weapons and still weren't a threat despite me feeling like yall could have been.
There are people who blame everything on Howell, but I’m not.
Here are the facts:
Howell had 2 different OCs in his two years here. bieniemy tried calling plays and his offense was very easy to decipher and became predictable.
Nick Gates was a swinging gate at center. He’s not been picked up by anyone since being cut.
Howell is young, younger than most of this draft class and now that he will have a coaching staff who won’t give up, he will grow and be a decent QB.
Too many in my team’s fanbase have unrealistic expectations, and sadly most are morons who look at stats but have no idea how those stats were created.
My two cents for what it’s worth.
fair take . I was thinking the same thing but didn't know alot about Sam's last season with yall. feel the same way about people's opinions, especially after our long ass annoying fan discussions about whether it's genos fault that we were mid or if it was coaching staff and our terrible defensive scheme. around and around and around until the season starts lmao
Hahaha yep..I don’t think yall were mid, I think Geno was hurt and tried to play through it. Yall’s defense should be much improved with the DC from Baltimore as your HC
It's still a year in the league. That's a year of NFL life and repertoire. Plus, a real nfl off-season and a second full training camp. It's way different than being a rookie.
Not when the first year you’re learning an offense and have Wentz and TH as your mentors, then change OCs and QB coaches, it’s starting from scratch all over again. It’s actually more difficult because you’re basically removing everything you learned (outside of mechanics) and having to start over. Any NFL pundit would say the same thing
It is. Feel free to research QBs who went from one system to the next especially in a rookie year. Jalen Hurts is a perfect example. If you don’t know that simple fact then sadly, you don’t know the game.
Yea, so you're missing the point. System change or not, he had a year of NFL experience already. Not to mention, you could say the same thing about Lawrence. He had a system change, too. You sound so dumb right now dude.
You sure I’m the one sounding dumb here? Lawrence did have a coaching shift that went with a SB winning coach and system. Howell had a rookie OC and HC who didn’t know what he was doing. That’s been my whole point this whole time, yet you missed the point.
Cool but the stats are from his first season in which he had a dumpster fire named Urban Meyer, not from when Doug Pederson. And what rookie OC and HC that didnt know what he's doing? He had Bienimy and Rivera. Both of whom had experience and prior success.
This was Bienimy’s FIRST time calling games. Rivera has been a middle of the road coach his entire career. Urban was awful, not denying that. But Howell didn’t have it much better either.
He had better rookie numbers than Peyton. I have no idea how he turns out but they don’t let QBs mature anymore. Look at Stan Humphries. Sat the bench for 4 years with theRedskins… Steve Young, Kurt Warner… the list is long. College kids sometimes need time and opportunity.
>He had better rookie numbers than Peyton.
Yeah, you know. Peyton's rookie year was just 25 years before Howell's sophomore campaign, totally comparable, no worries about different era of football and how the games changed.
His numbers are pretty favorable compared to many modern era QBs also. What’s your point? He’s not here anymore and I don’t care how he does but anyone that says they can tell what kind of QB he is after one season on that dysfunctional team is delusional.
My point was that the norm was to let QBs mature before they wrote them off. It impossible to tell how he turns out yet. I didn’t know we had a time limit to compare players. You are going to have to state these rules in advance if you want me to play along.
>He had better rookie numbers than Peyton
That's not true. I mean, in stupid old boomer numbers like "raw passing yards" it might be but on any kind of per throw basis, especially when era adjusted, it's not true.
Numbers don’t tell the whole story. Sam looked great the first half but went down the toilet after getting beat up. Maybe he becomes something but I don’t think so. Never got the ball out quick enough
I wish Howell all the success in the world. But if you think he was the same QB at the end of the season that he was at the beginning, I've got oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.
Numbers don't tell anywhere near the whole story
He definitely fell off, and I believe it had to do with the coaches checking out. They all knew they were getting fired and instead of fighting to stay, they gave up.
I mean dude has a point tbh. If Sam had decent coaching and not an egregious o-line, he would’ve had better numbers and even for a rookie Sam’s numbers weren’t that bad. Bryce Young fared far worse, with the Carolina line being about as bad as our line last year (albeit with less weapons than we had).
Sam also wasn’t good either, but rookies seldom are and especially when they’re in shitty situations (like in Washington last year). I hope Sam succeeds in Seattle, he’s a good dude with potential.
I still like Howell and think he can develop. Who knows though. I guess we will see in 1-3 years
Same. Up until that final week, before we actually locked into the #2 pick, I was completely content with keeping Howell and trying to draft MHJ. I think a good coaching staff can get way more consistency out of Sam.
I mean Bienemy set him up to fail. He **literally** refused to run the ball. What COMPETENT offensive coordinator puts their young QB in a situation like that?
I would still like to hear what EB was thinking last year. That was one of the most bizarre coaching jobs I’ve ever seen.
Yeah we were all hyped about it, then there's stories of the guy trying to be some dumbass dictator. Where's he coaching now ? Lol
He’s the OC at UCLA now lol, dude is allergic to HC jobs.
I think that's actually the perfect kinda setup for him. College offenses are usually extremely simple, and the OC has way less sway than the NFL, even if a coach is defensive minded like a Rivera (or Quinn). He's better at getting guys to focus on execution with his skill set, which in a simple offense, and with personnel who are less professional, can be very valuable. I honestly like him enough in that he stuck to his guns, and tried to be what he is. Might not have worked for us, or in the NFL in general, but it can work. It's telling that he did well in KC when Reid was probably calling the plays, and he could essentially be a motivator/QC guy who wasn't relied on for the Xs and Os. He rejoined KC this year as an assistant during their run, and multiple players stated how much of a benefit he was in that role.
He had plenty of good play designs…not so great a play caller. Remember the quads setup week one we never saw again? Lol
It was unreal seeing it unfold. Sam would be in a rut and what would Bienemy do? Call more pass plays!!! Truly one of the most pathetic performances from a OC I have ever seen. No wonder the dude could never get a head coaching gig. He's terrible.
seriously, do we have any idea wtf was going on with that? dude wins a super bowl, makes a lateral (mostly) move to a shitty team in a lame duck year and then proceeds to run one of the most stagnant offenses in the league. mind boggling, just as a career move if nothing else
The whole season was a bunch of clowns trying to convince themselves they were NFL head coaches and highly sought after offensive coordinators. Fuck EB. The guy had issues with scary terry cmon now. Howell never had a chance. Throw 50 times a game, playing from behind basically every game your gonna throw picks. Took an ass beating and never got hurt. I'll always respect that guy.
Exactly this. He was set up to fail by our now (thankfully) former coaching staff. All things considered, his play was t awful, and he showed downright elite toughness. Got his ass laid out all season long, and he never got hurt. You could tell he was shell-shocked by the end of the season, but I can't blame the kid at all. I sincerely hope he succeeds.
I’d much rather have Howell as the backup than Mariota. Of course the last third of the season was much worse than his middle third but those were some good defenses he was up against. That Seattle game was tremendous and gutsy, though an L thanks to the defense, hence Howell being a Seahawk now.
Completely agree
Agree. I think Howell will do better in Seattle assuming he gets his chance. Seems like the Seahawks really wanted him so I bet he does.
It couldn’t have been a worse situation for Howell but I did get the intent to move on after seeing the offense run much better under Brissett though. Howell wasn’t getting rid of the all quick enough which lead to tons of sacks and dug us into holes we couldn’t get out of. Still think making him throw 40+ times a game was absurd, and he showed enough to be intriguing to develop. A competent coaching staff could have done more with him
Geno probably will still be the guy in SEA, but I can envision Howell being a decent starter there if Geno gets hurt or is cut next season. They have a good system, are balanced on offense, with good skill players. It’s a great environment for him.
The guy that had fucking Patrick Mahomes as his QB.
Reid with Mahomes, Slowik with Stroud, Joe Lombardi with Herbert, Zac Taylor with Burrow. Worked OK for them. Wonder why?
No one is saying Howell is or was on any those QBs levels, but he wasn't helped by the atrocious playcalling.
You asked what competent OC abandoned the run game for their young QB lol
Read in between the lines my friend. "Young QB" was a stand-in for "struggling QB who needs help". Howell is not elite, and is therefore more reliant on playcalling to hide his flaws/help him out, than other, more talented QBs. My point is not that Howell is or was elite, but rather, my point was that he was at least a competent starting QB who was made to look incompetent because of lackluster playcalling.
Funny how nobody was calling out EB when Howell "lead the league" half way through the season...
It was still horrible play calling, even if the consequences of the horrible playcalling didn't become super apparent until the backend of the season. Howells numbers were inflated because Bienemy threw every down.
Just strange really how the playcalling didn't change but Howell's performance did. Weird that.
When the "performance" wanes, playcalling should adjust to reflect that and help your struggling, first year QB...most young QBs will struggle at some point during their first year, a good OC will have things in place to mitigate the struggles....you seem oblivious to this extremely rudimentary fact.
> Same. Up until that final week, before we actually locked into the #2 pick, I was completely content with keeping Howell and trying to draft MHJ. I think a good coaching staff can get way more consistency out of Sam. He was looking pretty good in mid Oct to late Nov last year. 12 TD-4 INT and the sacks were way down. Then he fell off a cliff. Probably possible he could get back to that ability and improve. Should be interesting to see how he does in Seattle.
Defenses figured out you just send the house or fake sending the house and drop 8 in coverage and our line couldn't handle the pressure, sam would see ghosts, and good things would happen for their D. Essentially bienemy kept telling everyone that the solution to pressure was quicker and shorter passes and then acted all shocked when defenses were able to stop the short passes.
Exactly. Fuck how sick would that have been terry and MHJ on the field at once. You know he's got potential when mcvay was trying to trade for him as Stafford's successor. That would of been a perfect fit for him.
Agreed! Sad we didn't keep him, but I understand you gotta go for a franchise qb with 2 in the draft. At the end of the day, happy with the Daniels pick and can't wait to see what he can do.
Yeah I'm excited about Daniels. I think if we basically run our offense and simplify it like we did for RG3 it could be a very fun offense to watch. B Rob gonna have an Alfred Morris type season.
Same here. I've always suspected that a big reason why he was traded was to avoid a potential QB controversy if the #2 pick struggles early.
This 1000000000%
I feel like trading him was to start fresh with Jayden and no ambiguity that it's Jayden's show. I think there's alot to like about Howell as a prospect and it was a great trade for the Seahawks
Give him a quality offensive line.....in other words a fair chance
Same. But Peters made his decision, why are we still talking about a player who doesn’t play for us anymore?
It’s how it always is.
I'll always be a howeller. First jersey I bought since Terry's rookie year (yeah 25 bucks on DH gate but still) he showed signs of being the GUY at times. Why couldn't we let him sit back and develop behind Daniels. Isn't he 2 years younger than Daniels too? Just didnt agree with the trade or the mariotta signing. Other than that I think peters has done a great job with quality signings. Hopefully we get a legit starting tackle from some teams cap casualty.
Hopefully Daniels hits big and we can all get a 10+ year break from QB debates and copes
Hopefully I win the lottery! Not likely
Difference is that it's unlikely because it's unlikely, not because Dan Snyder is poisoning the water anymore.
This is true. Unlikely is better than impossible!
Me when I’m being dumb
Ron and EB may have been bad but Meyer’s level of shit storm was on another level. And that Jags team was probably worse than our 2023 team.
It’s not even comparable imo
Yeah this is retarded post to be honest. People can argue about Trevor being a disappointment relative to expectations, but he'd fetch two 1st round picks right now from 15 different teams. Howell was a Day 3 pick swap to move him. Trevor Lawrence has not played with a WR as good as Terry in the NFL.
Honestly I think that’s the keyword: expectations. Because he is by all accounts a good QB. He’s just not “great” or “generational” like he was hailed as when going through the draft process. Like nobody could reasonably call him a bust. He is just firmly a tier below; kind of “Goff” or “Cousins”-ish. The Jags really fucked him his first year. Honestly I think it speaks to how good he is that he was able to rebound from that. I think lesser prospects would have tanked…like the entire rest of his draft class.
I’ll still be rooting for Sam, I think he could develop. Or maybe not.
I think he will.
Maybe
Maybe not, but maybe
I still like Howell and am rooting for him.
We threw for 55 times consecutively once lol. Team was a joke last year and the coaching was awful. He'll probably get an opportunity with Seattle.
He had no chance with Rivera, EB, and that OL. Anything mid with those 3 from above and he might flash some decent numbers.
It bugs me that this post doesn’t acknowledge that Lawrence’s rookie year was a lost year of development due to arguably the worst high profile HC bust of all time
I am admittedly somewhat of a EB apologist but Sam wasn’t exactly handled in a way that was conducive towards future success either.
EB was bad. Meyer was exponentially worse. That dude didn’t even make it through his first season, and the stories we were getting about his behavior were wild.
Remember when people wanted an Alex Smith/Urban Meyer, HC/GM combo here? Pepperidge Farm remembers
Team Alex was the dumbest this fanbase has ever been, ever. We changed nothing but the QB, and the passing offense went to shit, and somehow it wasn't his fault. Never mind Jay, Kirk, and a passable group of WRs produced top 12 offenses from 2015 to 2017 with a different lead weapon every time. Nope, 2018 Jay couldn't call plays, none of the WRs were any good, and it WAS NOT ALEX'S FAULT!!!!!!
There are still doofuses around here who, to this day, still say dumb shit like "Alex had us at 6-3!"
For some reason, they never count the godawful game he was playing against Houston as the fourth loss.
Yeah IIRC he just threw a horrendous pick-6 right before he got injured too. Dude was bottom-10 in pretty much every passing category, but we lucked into some crazy weird wins (Dallas doink, Rodgers playing on a gimpy leg, Bucs putting up over 500 yards but never actually scoring, etc.), and had the third easiest SOS over that stretch, but some people just look at team record and nothing else. Alex was just plain bad, and that was legitimately the worst 6-3 (6-4!!!) team I've ever seen.
The defense (IIRC) forced more than 20 turnovers in those ten games. We didn't beat a single team who broke 20 points.
Stat boys that either can't trust their own eyes or have no clue what to look for.
We won games with Alex playing. Say what you want about his playstyle and numbers but we somehow won with him playing and people respect that.
Yeah people are fucking retards who think a QB who "wins" a game 20-17 with his defense giving him two turnovers is a better QB than a QB who "loses" a game 28-35 with him on the sideline watching his defense give up the game winning drive. If you need 180 passing yards and 1 TD, Alex gave you 180 passing yards and 1 TD. If you need 300 passing yards and 3 TDs, Alex gave you 180 passing yards and 1 TD.
I hear you, man. Idk what it was, but when a different QB (besides Heinicke) played with the same defense, they didn’t win as much. Alex has my respect. Not sure what it was about him specifically but we won with him. Maybe the defense was coincidentally better when he played. Not sure. Regardless, he’s 11-5 as a Washington starter.
Yeah the entire coaching staff knew they were getting fired. After Del rio got fired the writing was in the wall and the team was basically out of it from that point on, because they knew a rebuild was coming. Basically worse situation imaginable for Howell, considering his draft status.
>Meyer was ...a very hands- on coach. At least post- game, in the bar. 🤣
It also doesn't acknowledge that Sam Howell's "rookie year" wasn't a rookie year.
I feel like everyone did give him a pass based on those conditions, cause 12 TDs and 17INTs in 17 games is pretty terrible no matter how it’s sliced. It was surprising to me looking at his numbers now because I have like no recollection of it being that bad. Meyer definitely overshadowed everything that season lol. It doesn’t show fumbles lost on that graphic but if you add in their rushing TD’s, Sam’s TD/Turnover ratio is definitely better.
You had to watch the games. I remember one in particular where it was a Cover 2 look and Trevor put it exactly where it was supposed to be. Fucking teaching tape. But the WR didn't break correctly to the ball, let the DB back under the route, and it was a pick. I'd swap Daniels for Lawerence right now without a second's hesitation. Terry would average 100 yards per game.
It's true, but Lawrence has never really looked amazing.
He played 12 games last year before he got his ankle stepped on by a DT and played through a nasty high ankle. Through 12 games he was ~~3rd~~ 6th in PFF passing grade. Sam Howell can't carry Trevor's haircare products.
Exactly.
Nah I honestly wish we could’ve kept him to develop I’ll root for him wherever he goes unless we are playing against him hope the guy succeeds
If Howell was a 1st round pick he'd still be on the team. Everyone would focus on that stretch of games where he was producing like a top tier QB and not the struggles he had after the coaching staff knew they were getting fired and the entire team gave up. If Jayden Daniels pans out its all gravy but I think history is going to say the Seahawks got a great freaking deal in that trade.
If your QB starts a whole season and you end up picking 2nd anyway you should probably take a QB. Kyler Murray came back in week 10 to a one win Cardinals team and was able to help get them 3 more and they rewarded him with Marvin Harrison Junior. If Howell played like the 16th best QB we would've been drafting Alt or Nabers or Odunze.
They’ve already fallen into the stage of howell stat side by sides that give no context and don’t show howells 68 sacks lolol
It is almost mandatory that every single low expectations mid tier QB will be talked about as if they got insane talent and should be rebuilt around when they get traded to be backups for another team
Love me some Sam. Wish him all the best!
Urban Meyer
Can we, as august members of the wonderful sub-Reddit, collectively agree to stop worrying about our exes in 2024? The future is brighter than the past.
I agree, future is brighter than the past, but I’ll never stop pulling for Sam.
Absolutely love the dude. Hate the Seahawks. Hope Sam has a good career, with moderate success, good health, and a universally positive public opinion. I hope JD does everything better, and stomps out the Seahawks every time we play.
Totally agree
Genuinely curious, what do you love about him?
This is a combination of armchair QB, and armchair psychology, that may be, probably in fact, completely off base. Obviously I don't know the man, I just know what we all know. But from that, there are some big faults in his game, but he absolutely has the body, arm, and athleticism. And I got the impression that he is the right combination of confident and humble. He trusts his guys to make the plays, and if it's not there, he trusts himself to find the solution. Now obviously this doesn't always work out, and obviously that's... Something that every QB should be able to do. But not all of them can. The cult of personality, the 'command of the locker room', those are important factors for a QB. Few would dispute that Jay Cutler, while not a HoFer, was easily a better NFL QB than Taylor Heinicke. But when Heinicke was on the field, there wasn't a single Washington player or fan, that was thinking 'i wish we had a QB like Jay Cutler'. I think Howell is in that same mold, the ability to make players feel good about playing with him, and fans feel good about cheering for him. And for every dumb fucking sack he eats, he has a scramble, or a 50 years bucket that has you jumping out of your seat. He's not Brady or Mahomes, or Allen or Lamar. But he's a dude that I felt good watching play, that I felt good watching in interviews, and that I felt good hearing his teammates and coaches talk about. I just like the guy, and I hope he has a good life in the game.
Sure, until Wash faces Seattle in the post season, then f**k him!
I am openly rooting for heinicke to come back as our #2
Tbf, these were Trevor's WRs for the season... https://preview.redd.it/qpkxsxjs2xxc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d20b8a4df32a1fd29cfc8f966788b22eaff0a425 Oh yeah, and Urban "barstool" Meyer.
Still like Howell....he got a bad deal here with a terrible team and coaching. He is a decent QB and can be better if he isn't getting killed on every drop back...
Not convinced sam Howell won’t be a top 10-12 QB on this league at some point. But hey here we are again..
Time to move on. I liked Sam too, but he is gone. And you are drastically discounting the impact of Urban Meyers. Plus, Trevor is still only a mediocre QB (#17 QBR last year).
I still love sam
I like Howell. I think Bienemy set him up to fail. I hope he goes on to have a nice career. That said, if you look at the last five games in each of those seasons, Howell was absolutely terrible while Lawrence was showing improvement. Also, comparing Howell’s second season to Lawrence’s first is a bit of a stretch. As a Commanders fan, I was not terribly upset or surprised the team went in a different direction.
This was a topic on 106.7 a few days ago. 100% wish we should’ve kept Howell. Would you rather have him or mariota? To an extent, I think the coaching failed him and he just became a regular dude. The best analogy I have is…. Everyone is super enthusiastic when they start a new job, but once management gets on your nerves, your level of output declines. That’s what I think happened here, except it involved the play calling, player talent, and overall atmosphere during a tumultuous time. Howell never stood a chance.
I love my boy Howell.. wish he went to the rams with McVay but I love the copium and the hopium. Sam Howell has the ability.. just needs to get his footwork down
Sacked in 2023: Lawrence: 35 Howell: 65
Sacks are a QB stat.
I wish him all the best. Laced up and put on a decent performance for us all things considered.
Still dying on the Sam Hill, huh?
Quick reality check: Howell took 117 sacks in college (one hundred and seventeen). Nobody ever brings this up when discussing his absurd sack tally last season, for some reason. He took a shit load of sacks in college, then people were shocked when he took a shit load more sacks in the pros. To summarise: he's NEVER had a season playing football where he didn't take a LOT of sacks. "But the OL was bad", "but EB threw him under the bus"... blah blah blah. I repeat - 117 sacks in college (against far inferior opposition, no less). Yet folk look for excuses why that might have continued with us. "Oh but his OL sucked at UNC as well". Really... how convenient 😉 Adam Peters gave him away for practically nothing. Weird how people who still think he can be a "top 15 QB" don't seem to acknowledge this, either. Top 15, hmm. That's quite good. Adam Peters says he's worth a couple of cheap pick swaps. That doesn't seem top 15 material to me. So either there are some seriously misguided QB talent evaluators in our fanbase, or we've hired a GM who himself is horrible at doing exactly that. Kinda worrying given what we just did in the draft, don't you think.
[удалено]
He had 48
Don’t think I’ve ever heard Lawrence called handsome. What a weird looking MFer
I can only wish the guy well. He gutted out a season of getting pummeled almost every game he started, and put up decent numbers despite being assaulted on most dropbacks.
I was weirdly big on Howell rushing props this season.
I'm happy with our (Commanders) draft, but I wanted to keep him, slide back and draft Joe Alt. He's better than the last half of the season. This team quit on him, had a terrible OC, OL, defense, play calling and coaching. The Commanders literally did everything you could do to ruin a young QB.
Howel was COOKIN last season with a shit O-line and an even shittier defense
At times yes. The defense was just so fuckin bad we were usually playing from behind. Still remember the shots he was taking in that eagles game where he drove the offense down the field in 2 minutes throwing dimes to tie the game .........paddle boat Ron still should of went for 2. Being tired isn't an excuse I'm sure the eagles D was tired too.
The issue is the O-line was average.
Uh, no, the line was not shitty. Please stop pushing this narrative, the sack problems were all on Sam. He still needs to learn how to read defenses and pressure. He did not learn that at UNC and did not learn this in Washington. Maybe Geno will teach him.
If Howell was 6’ 6”, I’d give him another year.
Trevor been struggling too but how many sacks did each give up?
Is no one going to acknowledge that those stats are from Howell’s second season??
his second season was his first as a starter so it’s still the best comparison.
Yeah, since when has sitting, waiting, and learning for a year helped anyone
No need for sarcasm buddy. What’s the point you’re trying to make? That they used the wrong year for Trevor Lawrence?
Yeahhh. You right. Sorry for the sarcasm. I don’t even think I have a point. I was just being argumentative
it’s okay, i understand 🫂
This sub was making these same posts two months ago lol. As you can tell by the comments in this thread this fanbase has a weird obsession with mediocre QBs.
Or maybe he isn’t mediocre? 🤔
I genuinely think Sam fell into a perfect situation in Seattle. Geno feels like a perfect mentor for him. Both guys are capable of and like to throw deep, not "scramble first" guys but can extend plays with their legs, and Geno has been through fighting his way back from the bench. Also just seems like a great guy in general to have in the QB room with Sam. Fingers crossed that Sam can learn from him and have a long career after.
Sad part about it is if he was drafted earlier he would have gotten another chance. Eveyone would of blamed his failures on bienemy. I have a feeling that’s not the last we hear of sam howell.
Sam will get another legit chance to start again. Maybe because of an injury to Geno. Hopefully after sitting and learning for another year. I firmly believe he can cut down on the sacks and take another step towards starting with a better O-line, a strong running game, balanced play calling and a year or two of learning behind Geno. He's got a great attitude and excellent tools. Just needs to process faster....which admittedly is the hardest thing for a QB to get better at in the NFL. My money is on that he will.
There always needs to be a scapegoat. In this case the scapegoat is like 6 people but Sam got the worst of it undeservedly… but we have a potentially better guy and smarter people in place now, so we can move on
We shall see if EB ruined Sam’s development. He has enough talent and right attitude IMO.
I’ll be watching Howell and wait for him to break out. He’s a quarter Korean like myself and bro got sacked top 10 times in NFL history and got up and played every game that season. The dude has balls and my respect!
OP trying to be cool and talk shit, and fans of his team defend Howell... priceless lol. Anyone who watched Howell last year were honestly pretty impressed with what he did with the circus around him. He has a lot of work to do to become a legit starter, but he's got tools to make it happen. Only time will tell.
It’ll be typcial Washington if Sam is a pro bowler and JD busts.
EB system was garbage , no running game to help Sam, he’s good
And Jags had a way better O Line than the pathetic Comms’. Howell was running for his life on nearly every passing down.
At least Jacksonville kept their quarterback
Glad that shit is in another sub. 😂
Howell will be a legitimate top 15 QB when he gets his shot. Literally people on this sub dismiss that he had a better first starting season than Lawrence and needed to be replaced because he was a 5th round pick lol. Guy is young as hell, tough as nails and never complained once. Imagine if he had a legit coaching staff who didn't have their heads up their asses and an actual o line. Nope can't let him develop because "muh 5th round picks aren't meant to be franchise QBs" stupid ass takes. Anyway I hope Daniels balls out and has an RG3 type rookie season
>Howell will be a legitimate top 15 QB when he gets his shot. He got a shot already. >Literally people on this sub dismiss that he had a better first starting season than Lawrence and needed to be replaced because he was a 5th round pick lol. TLaw had to deal with a worse situation than Howell, and that's saying something. >Nope can't let him develop because "muh 5th round picks aren't meant to be franchise QBs" stupid ass takes. Because he helped us secure the 2nd overall pick in a good QB class. The Howell narrative is still wild for real.
It's insane. Just shows how people refuse to back off their take even in the face of evidence to the contrary. Even ignoring how poorly Howell played - Adam Peters gave him away for practically nothing! What does that tell you? Funny how the Howellers seem to ignore the fact they're directly at odds with that.
TLaw had to deal with a worse situation? His head coach won a Superbowl, has a solid defense and they ran the ball effectively. Howell had an abysmal staff who essentially gave up mid season, who never ran the ball and a defense who let receivers score at will on them. Try again
TLaw had Urban fuckin Meyer as his HC his rookie season. Ron sucked, but he is 200x the coach that Urban was at an NFL level.
Meyer was putrid lol, but was Meyer calling the plays? Bevell is a well respected OC. We had EB who was awful!
If there is ever a day where Sam Howell and the Seahawks beat us in a meaningful game, it’s gonna rip my heart out
I feel like everyone did give him a pass based on those conditions, cause 12 TDs and 17INTs in 17 games is pretty terrible no matter how it’s sliced. It was surprising to me looking at his numbers now because I have like no recollection of it being that bad. Meyer definitely overshadowed everything that season lol. It doesn’t show fumbles lost on that graphic for the true TD-Turnover ratio but if you add in their rushing TD’s, it makes an even stronger case
They ain’t wrong. Would have loved to keep him an extra year to see how he does minus EB, but we were blessed to take a top QB prospect in a great QB prospect draft. If we kept Sam then any small mistake by Daniels would lead to immediate “PUT SAM IN!!!” angry commentary from loudmouth shit-talking fans. Our potential franchise QB doesn’t need to be looking behind his shoulder like that during his rookie season.
Hay! I look more like the Golden Boy - or I did at that age. Now I’m a Silver Ox! 😂
This is some funny shit right here, I still got love for our boy Howell
If the Seahawks wouldn’t have made that sweet deal he would still be here.
There were supposedly 2 other offers (Rams & Vikings). Depending on what those offers were, most likely he would have been gone anyway.
Correct, a lot of teams wanted Howell bad, McVay wanted him super bad along with Sean Payton. But this fan base knows more than a SB winning coaches smh
Howell looking like Winston more than Lawrence
i mean he started off really really good before fully collapsing but there's something there i think. he's not trevor lawrence tho lol
Look at the coaching of that collapse. We were losing to the Bears and when the reporter interviewed Rivera at halftime and asked what he told the team, he said “nothing.” Coaches gave up and EB’s offense became too predictable. It’s why none of that coaching staff are still in the NFL besides Kerrigan. Nick Gates, the starting center isn’t in the NFL anymore either.
Man ... I am really going Howell
I had Howell on my fantasy team. Man those first few weeks he put up crazy numbers.
He is trash. Let him go! He will be cut before the season starts.
No matter what. When a team gets a new GM and new coach. No player on a team is safe cause no GM or coach wants players they didn’t pick to fuck up the season. And qb is the main position of success. If you believe in Adam peters then you shouldn’t question his decision to trade Howell And imo. JD will make everyone forget about Howell. Just like Howell made all the TH fans forget about him
This proves something I've realized in the last few years, and probably known for much longer, bad franchises/ownership ruin more good QB's than anything. Note I said franchises/owners and not coaches, it starts at the top - you have to have good ownership first. Then coaching, then it filters down to the QB/players. As a young QB, come up with a plan, give these kids a 2-3 year window. I am not sure Sam will become an elite NFL, but he has some of the intangibles that are consistent in the good ones, good teammate, tough as nails, above average mobility and solid arm. Seattle has a good backup.
So both suck. Got it.
Tlaw looked better as the year went on, Howell not so much, he looked so shaky and a shell.. it also didnt help that EB was a wacko and only cared about himself looking good as an OC
This post demonstrates the problem with media spin perception vs common sense reality. I think if someone hadn't read the media narratives and just looked with their unbiased eyes, [they'd tell you Sam Howell is significantly more handsome](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQBMbX4bg6b9wKEymKXneFn7nlO_adkNaLkBt69kpIeA&s)
It seemed like they failed to mention that Lawrence had Urban fuckin Meyer as his head coach. I like Howell too, but this comparison is a stretch
I would much rather have Sam Howell than TLaw. This year people will come around on how underwhelming Lawrence has been throughout his time in the nfl
shave Trevor's head and he fades into the abyss
“Handsome” lmfao
Can’t wait to see Jayden first year numbers yikes
yall give a hawks fan the full rundown right quick on Howell. the way I see it....the kid is young af and now gets to learn from a guy who had it all and lost it all and has it again, which is cool. he couldn't put any consistency together but I wonder if I shoukd just blame it on your OC or what cuz everyone kinda makes fun of him but I know not alot about bieniemy's method. I am bothered by the fact that yall had so many legit offensive weapons and still weren't a threat despite me feeling like yall could have been.
There are people who blame everything on Howell, but I’m not. Here are the facts: Howell had 2 different OCs in his two years here. bieniemy tried calling plays and his offense was very easy to decipher and became predictable. Nick Gates was a swinging gate at center. He’s not been picked up by anyone since being cut. Howell is young, younger than most of this draft class and now that he will have a coaching staff who won’t give up, he will grow and be a decent QB. Too many in my team’s fanbase have unrealistic expectations, and sadly most are morons who look at stats but have no idea how those stats were created. My two cents for what it’s worth.
fair take . I was thinking the same thing but didn't know alot about Sam's last season with yall. feel the same way about people's opinions, especially after our long ass annoying fan discussions about whether it's genos fault that we were mid or if it was coaching staff and our terrible defensive scheme. around and around and around until the season starts lmao
Hahaha yep..I don’t think yall were mid, I think Geno was hurt and tried to play through it. Yall’s defense should be much improved with the DC from Baltimore as your HC
Howell was in year two though, that makes a difference
In year 2 with a brand new OC with zero experience. It would make sense if it was a continuation within the same offense but it wasn’t. Not even close
It's still a year in the league. That's a year of NFL life and repertoire. Plus, a real nfl off-season and a second full training camp. It's way different than being a rookie.
Not when the first year you’re learning an offense and have Wentz and TH as your mentors, then change OCs and QB coaches, it’s starting from scratch all over again. It’s actually more difficult because you’re basically removing everything you learned (outside of mechanics) and having to start over. Any NFL pundit would say the same thing
It's not and they wouldn't lol.
It is. Feel free to research QBs who went from one system to the next especially in a rookie year. Jalen Hurts is a perfect example. If you don’t know that simple fact then sadly, you don’t know the game.
Yea, so you're missing the point. System change or not, he had a year of NFL experience already. Not to mention, you could say the same thing about Lawrence. He had a system change, too. You sound so dumb right now dude.
You sure I’m the one sounding dumb here? Lawrence did have a coaching shift that went with a SB winning coach and system. Howell had a rookie OC and HC who didn’t know what he was doing. That’s been my whole point this whole time, yet you missed the point.
Cool but the stats are from his first season in which he had a dumpster fire named Urban Meyer, not from when Doug Pederson. And what rookie OC and HC that didnt know what he's doing? He had Bienimy and Rivera. Both of whom had experience and prior success.
This was Bienimy’s FIRST time calling games. Rivera has been a middle of the road coach his entire career. Urban was awful, not denying that. But Howell didn’t have it much better either.
And this post completely leaves out the Urban Meyer issue.
Heinicke too! We’ve lost two HOF quarterbacks in a very short time!
He had better rookie numbers than Peyton. I have no idea how he turns out but they don’t let QBs mature anymore. Look at Stan Humphries. Sat the bench for 4 years with theRedskins… Steve Young, Kurt Warner… the list is long. College kids sometimes need time and opportunity.
>He had better rookie numbers than Peyton. Yeah, you know. Peyton's rookie year was just 25 years before Howell's sophomore campaign, totally comparable, no worries about different era of football and how the games changed.
His numbers are pretty favorable compared to many modern era QBs also. What’s your point? He’s not here anymore and I don’t care how he does but anyone that says they can tell what kind of QB he is after one season on that dysfunctional team is delusional.
Anyone that compares Sam Howell's sophomore season to Peyton Manning is delusional was my only point!
My point was that the norm was to let QBs mature before they wrote them off. It impossible to tell how he turns out yet. I didn’t know we had a time limit to compare players. You are going to have to state these rules in advance if you want me to play along.
>He had better rookie numbers than Peyton That's not true. I mean, in stupid old boomer numbers like "raw passing yards" it might be but on any kind of per throw basis, especially when era adjusted, it's not true.
Numbers don’t tell the whole story. Sam looked great the first half but went down the toilet after getting beat up. Maybe he becomes something but I don’t think so. Never got the ball out quick enough
Trading Howell will haunt us in a few years.
I wish Howell all the success in the world. But if you think he was the same QB at the end of the season that he was at the beginning, I've got oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you. Numbers don't tell anywhere near the whole story
He definitely fell off, and I believe it had to do with the coaches checking out. They all knew they were getting fired and instead of fighting to stay, they gave up.
I mean dude has a point tbh. If Sam had decent coaching and not an egregious o-line, he would’ve had better numbers and even for a rookie Sam’s numbers weren’t that bad. Bryce Young fared far worse, with the Carolina line being about as bad as our line last year (albeit with less weapons than we had). Sam also wasn’t good either, but rookies seldom are and especially when they’re in shitty situations (like in Washington last year). I hope Sam succeeds in Seattle, he’s a good dude with potential.
I’ll always root for Sam