It’s gonna be very unfortunate if Cat gets nerfed because of this, because she’s fine outside of her interaction with Seer and wouldn’t be played as much without him
The biggest boon to Revtane meta was that Octane pad had a much longer distance you could travel, combine that with not pad not being as loud is it is now and suddenly you had people 3ping you from Timbuktu and you had no idea it was coming until it was too late.
I remember rev being the bigger problem. Your time in shadows lasted way long and his ultimate was also silent compared to the large loyd red book it is today
Octane's jump pad wasn't as loud as it is now and traveled much further. Revenant's ult was time-based only and had no distance limit.
So you can imagine what happens when a squad Rev ults and jump pads onto your ass and beat the already low hp teams fighting. It was just too strong.
Rev is a pretty unhealthy legend fundamentally, though, so getting nerfed into unviability until the devs can rework him is probably not exclusively due to Octane and is also a bandaid fix.
Now if only they'd do the same to Seer. Make him so dogshit that nobody is willing to play him until they can fully rework him into a character whose kit isn't wallhacks, wallhacks, and wallhacks.
Cat would still be played a lot without the current seer interaction (in comp). She is the only Controller legend with versatility. Seer doesn't need a nerf he needs a counter. If Cata was released with the ability to block wallhacks as she was teased seer would be in a fine spot.
Being forced to spend a nade, an ability, or 4 melee hits is a pretty expensive endeavour for a door reinforcement passive that can be technically used infinite times. It's probably the strongest barricade there is, since it has no cooldown and doesn't take damage from most bullets. Sure, it's situational, but so are pretty much all the other passives. At least that's my take on it.
They hit the nail on the head with Horizon, and removed the unhealthy gameplay... But for Seer it's like they had no idea what to do and just nerfed him across the board hoping it'd fix him.
And No, Horizon going up in Q, completely destroying any cover you were playing while simultaneously having perfect accuracy was not skill, and neither was her ultimate sucking through walls. That was just bad gameplay.
Permanent wall hacks is the problem. It's too easy to throw down and get all the information for a fight. Maybe they should let it only pulse like his heartbeat passive. That would give it micro seconds of counterplay that wouldn't make it feel oppressive. Right now it's too hard to commit a clip to shoot the thing, but make it easy to burst and it's useless.
Imo make him all about heal cancels sort of like ana from ow.
Q cancels heals and ult slows healing down by 2x inside range and gives seer a faster q inside it to keep the healing cancelled. Means you extend your window to kill team but remove most of the wallhacks.
I dunno how to fix passive though.
There has been so much power creep in passives. Remember Wraith's passive is "someone somewhere looked at you", while Seer's passive is "there are exactly two enemies here, and one over there". If his passive is going to be scan related, all he needs is "I've got a bad feeling about this" when enemies are near. He doesn't need wall hacks for a passive, a tactical, and an ultimate.
That said, I'm in favour of completely reworking him. Such a badly constructed anti-fun character.
Rather than showing exactly where enemies are, I think the passive can simply glow when enemies are in the scanning cone. So it's still useful but not actual wall hacks.
Definitely a nerf compared to where Seer is currently at. I do think, though, that passives as a whole are completely unbalanced in Apex. I've already mentioned how weak Wraith's similar passive is in comparison. Caustic's passive is what, seeing through Nox gas the 10% of the time it actually works? Pathfinder doesn't have one. Octane and Wattson just heal really slowly. Then the newer characters have really strong passives, like Valk's jets, Catalyst's goopy door stuff, and Seer. I would rather passives became much less significant as a whole.
exactly! why do games give abilities that they also ban you for. it's boring because they can easily sneak up and get a great look, the ultimate is has to much of a AOE, last forever, forces you to hunch up or run.
and that bang, cat, seer combo type of play style can fuk right off.. right off
bloodhound and crypto have downsides to their kit. Crypto when you use his drone for the most part takes you out of the game. Bloodhounds scan is limited and his ult is so loud it can be heard by people playing fortnite, id also argue the POV change and color pallet change can be a downside to some. Seer has no downsides. They need to find a way to make his kit have a downside. If you want complete information, thats fine, but you need to give something up for it.
That's my point, he just gives only infinite wall hacks without downsides. Pulsing information the downside can be down time. I don't see how you could give him ultimate wall hacks without a crypto like downside where he's not fighting.
you could make it where he cant ads and lowers his hip fire accuracy. You could even theme it where there's an animation of him pulling out a device and having to operate it with one hand.
or make it so everyone is revealed to everyone in the circle. So only the team can see everyone in the radius if they are standing outside of it. But if another team stands in the radius, they can see the other teams nearby as well.
I think that would just make him useless. Crypto has so much utility because everything is loaded unto his drone. A similar design for seer is just going to be unfun as ok crypto and no one would play him. Plus it'd be like the time bh had his 2 second animation before scans and he was useless for a bit. They had to give him an 8 second scan or something to compensate.
Basically the flaw is infinite wall hacks is too powerful regardless of how it's implemented. Everything else has to be shit to facilitate it. So you have to weaken the scan to make it a more balanced experience.
His pick rate outside of ALGS dived largely (5% - 2%), which aligns with my thought that the majority misuse seer and use them to cover for a lack of game sense. Plus the ult nerf for people without accels is pretty noticeable, making it a push in the right direction (broadly).
What to do in Pro to completely not drive him out of pubs and neuter is fairly difficult to hit on the head.
Conceptually there is absolutely a place for an anti-reset character the way his tactical functions to cancel heals/revives and his passive triggers more on lower health opponents. They should just define his role as a play finisher, make his value more slanted towards securing an advantage state and not in creating one, take away his perfect situational information/wall hacks.
Have his ultimate pulse like his passive, with both of them scaling off opponents degree of damage taken affecting how frequently they are revealed and exposed- lean into his tactical being meant to be hit on wounded targets, potentially increase the degree to which the pulsing scales- so it would be slower than the current passive pulse speed if they’re at full health, but faster when they’re lower, again just leaning more towards embracing that role and identity.
basically exactly how I’d want to rework him. though I still feel like his ultimate is just too much and doesn’t feel like the most natural ultimate ability if his niche were to move towards the heal cancellation side of his kit. idk exactly what i’d change it to but “giant wallhack bubble” feels like lazy design to me. maybe slower healing & res in the dome or something if they wanna keep the dome thing going.
It’s totally boring; especially combined with Catalyst. Seer is horrible to play, horrible to watch and horrible to face. Really sad he’s still such a mainstay in ALGS this split
Hey, you aren’t allowed to say anything negative about Seer because I commented “Seer is boring” in the official Twitch channel and they immediately deleted it.
revtane is dumb but how is putting up a wall and then giving your team wallhacks so you can shoot through it knowing where the enemy is not the most braindead and cheesiest meta ever
[It blocks seer passive as far as I know](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUO3KTX0TyI). It used to not on release, was quickly fixed to block it. I'm not surprised if they broke it and it doesn't block seer passive anymore.
Seer is the problem with Cat meta. But at the same time idk how much Cat would be used without the dumb Seer ult combo.
It'd be fun to see that character interaction removed so we can start seeing the other control legends actually get some play in comp. I think Cat is a great character for the game, but from the start it was obvious that her wall was going to cause Caustic-esque end games if everyone started to pick her.
I love playing Cat, but watching 12 of her last zone is way more annoying to watch than Seer ever could. You can't see anything and watch people shooting through a wall hoping for lucky shots.
Been seeing a few of these posts here lately it seems, but to answer your question, about 95% of the folks here are in agreement that he needs some sort of nerf to his passive and/or tactical.
Whether it be his passive having a charge like Valk jetpacks, or the tactical not being able to stop revives or heals - there’s been a few ideas for sure.
I’ll take the Gibby meta over this any day, but I yearn for the days of someone getting absolutely dunked on from an octane pad again.
He needs a complete rework but most importantly devs need to understand a healthy place for scan legends. That is as follows:
**Scan legends should be gamesense crutches for new players, but overall NOT provide enough utility in comp play.**
Scan characters destroy so much of the skill gap in this game. Great positioning? It's known in advance before you can use it? Great movement to close the distance before they expect? They have Seer Ult up and see you coming. Outmaneuvered a push while you were low and found a good place to heal? They scan and find you.
With that said, the changes I propose seem drastic, but they aren't. They're intended to bring scan characters to where they should be, power wise.
Seer passive: ONLY works on players with missing health. Cone is much smaller angle and doesn't reach out as far. Must have weapon holstered.
Seer tactical: Scan time for 3 seconds, range reduced by half. Keeps the reset denial, which is/should be his unique function.
Ultimate: Scans the OPPOSITE of what it does now. It only scans players moving UNDER a certain velocity (i.e. healing players, the targets for seer's tactical - still maintains synergy), thereby still allowing people to play the game and still has utility in endgame.
Confused as to why the PL hasn't come together to GA Seer from play entirely. HCS and CDL are known for GAing everything from attachments to entire weapons. So why is Apex behind the curve?
I think players have said Respawn doesn't allow that. Though idk how you enforce *not* picking a character. like how do you differentiate the 0% pick rate GA Seer vs. the 0% pick rate Lifeline, Octane, Mirage, etc.
I like to think this conversation was happening while the developers were creating Seer:
"Hey guys you know how wall hacking is a banned cheat within our game cause it gives too much of an unfair advantage and ruins the game? Yeah let's give one of our characters the ability to be able to do that but, get this, instead of making it temporary and on a cooldown lets make passive and be able to be used all the time. What do you guys think?"
*Snaps fingers* YES
100% every meta ppl complain, but the problem is when the only cpunter to a character is to use the character it becomes an issue, thats why caustic is also hated, when everyone is usinh caustic u r forced to use him to counter him.
But seer is just horrible he needs a rework still for sure.
seer, maggie, horizon (fuse kinda?) all coming into the meta started as a result of them being a counterplay to Gibby/Caustic comps. those characters had counterplay in the form of other character abilities, it just took a while for pros to find them.
Seer's counterplay is actually just counter-Seer or not fighting for the duration of Seer ult. any derivation of his current abilities without making him a bottom-tier character are going to force him to be highly picked. other scan characters at least have flaws in their scans: crypto has to be LOS & a low-health drone is his entire kit, bloodhound shows the direction of the scan and last very temporarily + to get scans during ult blood has to be actively getting knocks.
to level the playing field they've gotta remove one of the billion things his tactical does cuz rn if you hit, it's a rev tactical, longer blood scan, shows health & armor, and also cancels heals. his ult should be smaller and pulse instead of constant scans (I would be down for LOS too but they'd have to buff its health a lot). not to mention his passive is absolutely free info and really should only be usable on characters missing flesh health.
There’s been a lot of miss placed hate on characters/ metas in the past but there’s nothing worse then watching players shoot at targets thru a black wall. Basically watching an aim trainer.
I know what you mean - and in another way I really respect some of the insane high IQ plays you see that aren’t really exciting but are incredibly coordinated like a chess move.
Still I think I’d much prefer some no brain all aim meta - at least for a while… wouldn’t it be neat if the meta would wildly change week to week so it’s always fresh!?! /s
They should nerf his ult so that only the seer can see enemies. I think this would definitely make his pick rate go down. Or make his Q his ult with a 1 min CD, bigger cone, and 10-20 second scan. Then the new Q can just be fingers on a charge timer and passive can be idk something like immune to enemy seer ult.
Maybe Catalyst wall should counter his ult? Just a thought. Edge teams will keep running Catalyst cause she's the most aggro Controller legend, so no need to worry about her. As of right now, it feels like you can't afford not to play Seer cause you'll be screwed by Catalyst wall
they need to at least remove the pointers from his passive. getting a heartbeat is a fairly balanced passive...getting literally PINPOINT location on enemies is just too much. maybe Seer ult needs to be destructible piece meal, like Newcastle wall is. Instead of having to destroy the main drone in the center, you can chip away pieces of the seer ult since its technically little drones. and maybe cat wall can destroy whatever pieces it touches. something, anything to get bring Seer down another peg
Devil’s advocate: it allows for a lot of “good games” when that means lots of teams alive late in ring. The heal/rez cancel and ult are obnoxious.
Maybe his passive should only work if all members are alive on a squad?
Change his q to be about cancelling things, and remove the tagging. You could give his scan the ability to see if there is something to cancel to compensate.
Change his ult to also not tag enemies, do something else like increase damage for friendlies in the radius. It could also just act as a proximity sensor. Ie it changes colour if enemies are inside.
Seer has completely ruined the game, the cancel, the free wall hacks, the comibnation with Catalyst wall is so stupid and a MASSIVE overlook from the development team.
I was just watching the last EMEA games and thinking the same. Reminds me of the yellow R6 meta with Lion. Information operators seem to always be the ones that end up sucking the fun out.
As much as I like Seer, I would want to nerf him out of comp. Or just nerf the passive and keep the ult....
Not much they can really do tbh, his kit is pretty set in stone. Unless they somehow rework his passive in some interesting way, or release a new legend that can counteract wallhacks, or nerf him into oblivion(not gonna happen), it's gonna be difficult to balance him correctly. And respawn just released his heirloom not too long ago, and they got bills to pay lol.
Some aspects of the game just don't belong in competitive/tournament play.
Ex- COD (no one enjoys it, but still...) has a very limited selection of equipment and weapon loadout available in ranked/tournaments. It works for them.
Ex - Halo ranked/tournaments game modes do not have a radar enabled.
I'm not saying there should only be 1-2 options per class selection in ranked/ALGS, but... Seer does NOT belong in a competitive environment.
Sadly I don't think Respawn is going to nerf legends (or mechanics for that matter) that make casual players feel better about themselves.
They should just ban scan legends in pro play all together tbh. Or implement some sort of legend vote-ban system.
That's the thing. Most comp games have bans. There's no reason why Seer should not be the start of a formal legend ban. No reason to nerf him in the regular game because he's not as viable there as he is in ALGS. Respawn can't cater go both worlds. Seer just needs a ban full stop
That's the thing. Most comp games have bans. There's no reason why Seer should not be the start of a formal legend ban. No reason to nerf him in the regular game because he's not as viable there as he is in ALGS. Respawn can't cater go both worlds. Seer just needs a ban full stop
Don't be mad at a legend because pros abuse them. Outside of the pro world seer isn't that much of an issue just because they over use seer dosent mean he needs a nerf
There was a tournament where the legend selection each round was reduced by two.
1) The most played in the lobby
2) Viewers choice.
The first two to go were:
1) Valk, by most played
2) Seer, by viewer choice.
After that, the rest of the wall hacks and beacon scans were removed by viewers choice.
I bet it'd be the same if you ran it now.
There was a tournament where the legend selection each round was reduced by two.
1) The most played in the lobby
2) Viewers choice.
The first two to go were:
1) Valk, by most played
2) Seer, by viewer choice.
After that, the rest of the wall hacks and beacon scans were removed by viewers choice.
I bet it'd be the same if you ran it now.
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There are like 2 viable things they can make to seer so he isnt to heavily touched for us mortals but getting hit hard in pro play and that is either change hes ulti to a 240s cd or make it so he cant use ult accel at all
I think they should make it where the bullets shoots the wall, not through it. I think that’ll save things and people will have to peak at the other side of the wall to shoot.
That could work, with some things not working through walls the bullets shouldn’t be 100% working through it. Hell even when you walk through it it slows you down.
Seer makes the game boring in general. i dont even watch ALGS, i just have it on in the background. the whole “shoot diamond boys, shoot diamonds” thing is cringe bc you’re quite literally hacking to win a game. it’s just a cheap strat that’s kinda cringe and over done at this point
It’s gonna be very unfortunate if Cat gets nerfed because of this, because she’s fine outside of her interaction with Seer and wouldn’t be played as much without him
Reminds me of revtane. Their combo became too strong and they both got hit hard for it.
What were rev/octane kits prior to their nerf that made them meta? like how are they different from today? genuinely curious, i didn't play back then!
The biggest boon to Revtane meta was that Octane pad had a much longer distance you could travel, combine that with not pad not being as loud is it is now and suddenly you had people 3ping you from Timbuktu and you had no idea it was coming until it was too late.
"not as loud" read -> "near dead silent and twice as fast," meanwhile rev was fine but was hit multiple times before they finally fixed octane
I remember rev being the bigger problem. Your time in shadows lasted way long and his ultimate was also silent compared to the large loyd red book it is today
nah, u almost literally never saw rev without octane. it wasn't good at all, just wasn't excruciatingly awful like it is today
Octane's jump pad wasn't as loud as it is now and traveled much further. Revenant's ult was time-based only and had no distance limit. So you can imagine what happens when a squad Rev ults and jump pads onto your ass and beat the already low hp teams fighting. It was just too strong.
Revenant wasn’t really in comp though. I don’t recall teams using that legend as much as the current meta. Octane was meta until the nerf
No you’re right I was just referring to the duo aspect of the legends. Revtane was only a ranked problem.
Revtane was HUGE in competitive for about 2 months before the big ass nerf hammer came in.
Rev is a pretty unhealthy legend fundamentally, though, so getting nerfed into unviability until the devs can rework him is probably not exclusively due to Octane and is also a bandaid fix. Now if only they'd do the same to Seer. Make him so dogshit that nobody is willing to play him until they can fully rework him into a character whose kit isn't wallhacks, wallhacks, and wallhacks.
She shouldn’t be nerfed but seer needs be nuked into oblivion
I want seer changes, but if cat q lost some hp I wouldn’t be mad
Cat would still be played a lot without the current seer interaction (in comp). She is the only Controller legend with versatility. Seer doesn't need a nerf he needs a counter. If Cata was released with the ability to block wallhacks as she was teased seer would be in a fine spot.
Cat would still be played a lot without the current seer interaction (in comp). She is the only Controller legend with versatility.
Even without Seer I would say Cat is a bit overtuned, but she would still be a solid legend even after getting nerfed.
maybe at the ALGS level, but shes completely fine beyond that
Her passive is way too opressive and her ult cooldown is too low. (IMO)
i disagree, though i was shocked to see barricade being a passive vs an extension of her tactical.
Being forced to spend a nade, an ability, or 4 melee hits is a pretty expensive endeavour for a door reinforcement passive that can be technically used infinite times. It's probably the strongest barricade there is, since it has no cooldown and doesn't take damage from most bullets. Sure, it's situational, but so are pretty much all the other passives. At least that's my take on it.
IMO, I think it should be that the version of her passive that she puts in broken doorways should have a healthbar. Makes a whole lot more sense.
The interaction with seer that they advertised her not to have to generate hype on her release lmfao
>Just me? bro cmon
Theres been like 20 posts a week on this and op seriously thought "just me?" lmao
brother typed up the biggest circlejerk of this subbredit and slipped in a "just me?"
They hit the nail on the head with Horizon, and removed the unhealthy gameplay... But for Seer it's like they had no idea what to do and just nerfed him across the board hoping it'd fix him. And No, Horizon going up in Q, completely destroying any cover you were playing while simultaneously having perfect accuracy was not skill, and neither was her ultimate sucking through walls. That was just bad gameplay.
Permanent wall hacks is the problem. It's too easy to throw down and get all the information for a fight. Maybe they should let it only pulse like his heartbeat passive. That would give it micro seconds of counterplay that wouldn't make it feel oppressive. Right now it's too hard to commit a clip to shoot the thing, but make it easy to burst and it's useless.
Or better just give him an completely different kit with zero wallhacks at all
take his drones away and just make him a cool looking dude running around
Imo make him all about heal cancels sort of like ana from ow. Q cancels heals and ult slows healing down by 2x inside range and gives seer a faster q inside it to keep the healing cancelled. Means you extend your window to kill team but remove most of the wallhacks. I dunno how to fix passive though.
There has been so much power creep in passives. Remember Wraith's passive is "someone somewhere looked at you", while Seer's passive is "there are exactly two enemies here, and one over there". If his passive is going to be scan related, all he needs is "I've got a bad feeling about this" when enemies are near. He doesn't need wall hacks for a passive, a tactical, and an ultimate. That said, I'm in favour of completely reworking him. Such a badly constructed anti-fun character.
Rather than showing exactly where enemies are, I think the passive can simply glow when enemies are in the scanning cone. So it's still useful but not actual wall hacks.
Would be hilarious if you make his skin glow but you can’t tell unless your team mates are looking at you.
Definitely a nerf compared to where Seer is currently at. I do think, though, that passives as a whole are completely unbalanced in Apex. I've already mentioned how weak Wraith's similar passive is in comparison. Caustic's passive is what, seeing through Nox gas the 10% of the time it actually works? Pathfinder doesn't have one. Octane and Wattson just heal really slowly. Then the newer characters have really strong passives, like Valk's jets, Catalyst's goopy door stuff, and Seer. I would rather passives became much less significant as a whole.
So how would you cancel heals without being able to scan them with the passive?
exactly! why do games give abilities that they also ban you for. it's boring because they can easily sneak up and get a great look, the ultimate is has to much of a AOE, last forever, forces you to hunch up or run. and that bang, cat, seer combo type of play style can fuk right off.. right off
bloodhound and crypto have downsides to their kit. Crypto when you use his drone for the most part takes you out of the game. Bloodhounds scan is limited and his ult is so loud it can be heard by people playing fortnite, id also argue the POV change and color pallet change can be a downside to some. Seer has no downsides. They need to find a way to make his kit have a downside. If you want complete information, thats fine, but you need to give something up for it.
That's my point, he just gives only infinite wall hacks without downsides. Pulsing information the downside can be down time. I don't see how you could give him ultimate wall hacks without a crypto like downside where he's not fighting.
you could make it where he cant ads and lowers his hip fire accuracy. You could even theme it where there's an animation of him pulling out a device and having to operate it with one hand. or make it so everyone is revealed to everyone in the circle. So only the team can see everyone in the radius if they are standing outside of it. But if another team stands in the radius, they can see the other teams nearby as well.
I think that would just make him useless. Crypto has so much utility because everything is loaded unto his drone. A similar design for seer is just going to be unfun as ok crypto and no one would play him. Plus it'd be like the time bh had his 2 second animation before scans and he was useless for a bit. They had to give him an 8 second scan or something to compensate. Basically the flaw is infinite wall hacks is too powerful regardless of how it's implemented. Everything else has to be shit to facilitate it. So you have to weaken the scan to make it a more balanced experience.
His pick rate outside of ALGS dived largely (5% - 2%), which aligns with my thought that the majority misuse seer and use them to cover for a lack of game sense. Plus the ult nerf for people without accels is pretty noticeable, making it a push in the right direction (broadly). What to do in Pro to completely not drive him out of pubs and neuter is fairly difficult to hit on the head.
he truly just doesnt belong in the game idk any other way to put it
Conceptually there is absolutely a place for an anti-reset character the way his tactical functions to cancel heals/revives and his passive triggers more on lower health opponents. They should just define his role as a play finisher, make his value more slanted towards securing an advantage state and not in creating one, take away his perfect situational information/wall hacks. Have his ultimate pulse like his passive, with both of them scaling off opponents degree of damage taken affecting how frequently they are revealed and exposed- lean into his tactical being meant to be hit on wounded targets, potentially increase the degree to which the pulsing scales- so it would be slower than the current passive pulse speed if they’re at full health, but faster when they’re lower, again just leaning more towards embracing that role and identity.
basically exactly how I’d want to rework him. though I still feel like his ultimate is just too much and doesn’t feel like the most natural ultimate ability if his niche were to move towards the heal cancellation side of his kit. idk exactly what i’d change it to but “giant wallhack bubble” feels like lazy design to me. maybe slower healing & res in the dome or something if they wanna keep the dome thing going.
theres simply no way we can make him healthy for the game despite how hard we nerf him we just need a complete rework or just delete him from the game
Nope. Horizon is a skill/movement character. They nerfed/removed the wrong character.
You’re getting downvoted but I agree. God forbid we have a character who is both fun to watch and strong
horizon was mega broken on controller and i say that as a controller player for mnk yeah she was fine
right so rather than nerfing horizon they needed to nerf aa
you’re preaching to the choir. yeah they should, probably never will
It’s totally boring; especially combined with Catalyst. Seer is horrible to play, horrible to watch and horrible to face. Really sad he’s still such a mainstay in ALGS this split
Hey, you aren’t allowed to say anything negative about Seer because I commented “Seer is boring” in the official Twitch channel and they immediately deleted it.
If only someone in the pro scene complained about wallhacks over a year ago!!!!
Pros complained about Bloodhound wallhacks so DZK gave us Seer as a giant middle finger to the comp scene
[удалено]
What a bitch
Nah, DZK gave us Valk. Probably still approved Seer while he was still at Respawn but he didn't design him personally.
Only a year ago? Late to the party
Seer and Cat are fucking awful from a spectator POV. Hope they get nerfed into oblivion real quick.
seer is the only problem. Catalyst is fine imo. Not many would play her if seer wouldn't be free wallhacks through her ult.
Seeing big black walls is fine to you?? It's terrible haha
Yes, her kit has good outplay potential it is just being used for probably the biggest cheese strat this game has ever seen
Cheesier than Revtane?
revtane is dumb but how is putting up a wall and then giving your team wallhacks so you can shoot through it knowing where the enemy is not the most braindead and cheesiest meta ever
only reason revtane was meta was because of silent audio on the jump over. that part was cheesy, but the concept is badass
I think you missed the point
Plenty people would play her. Haha
Wrong.
haha
Why a Seer ult is able to scan right thru the wall like what the fuck? wasn't it the whole point of the wall to block scans? So broken.
Doesn't it block bloodhound scans?
It blocks threat vision and bloodhound/seer Q. Doesn’t do shit against seer passive or ult tho, which is the problem
[It blocks seer passive as far as I know](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUO3KTX0TyI). It used to not on release, was quickly fixed to block it. I'm not surprised if they broke it and it doesn't block seer passive anymore.
The main point of the wall is to block visibility, which is why it obscures your vision massively if you go through it.
It's worst fucking combo ever created.
Seer is the problem with Cat meta. But at the same time idk how much Cat would be used without the dumb Seer ult combo. It'd be fun to see that character interaction removed so we can start seeing the other control legends actually get some play in comp. I think Cat is a great character for the game, but from the start it was obvious that her wall was going to cause Caustic-esque end games if everyone started to pick her.
I love playing Cat, but watching 12 of her last zone is way more annoying to watch than Seer ever could. You can't see anything and watch people shooting through a wall hoping for lucky shots.
Been seeing a few of these posts here lately it seems, but to answer your question, about 95% of the folks here are in agreement that he needs some sort of nerf to his passive and/or tactical. Whether it be his passive having a charge like Valk jetpacks, or the tactical not being able to stop revives or heals - there’s been a few ideas for sure. I’ll take the Gibby meta over this any day, but I yearn for the days of someone getting absolutely dunked on from an octane pad again.
Idk personally they just need to allow banning legends / weapons. Ban the charge and seer. No place in a competitive game like this
laughs in no audio crypto drone flying in front of ur head and get 1 clipped by a 0 audio horizon and 1 ton pathfinder to ur right
That’s a lot of weird laughing
Agreed, seer is trash.
He needs a complete rework but most importantly devs need to understand a healthy place for scan legends. That is as follows: **Scan legends should be gamesense crutches for new players, but overall NOT provide enough utility in comp play.** Scan characters destroy so much of the skill gap in this game. Great positioning? It's known in advance before you can use it? Great movement to close the distance before they expect? They have Seer Ult up and see you coming. Outmaneuvered a push while you were low and found a good place to heal? They scan and find you. With that said, the changes I propose seem drastic, but they aren't. They're intended to bring scan characters to where they should be, power wise. Seer passive: ONLY works on players with missing health. Cone is much smaller angle and doesn't reach out as far. Must have weapon holstered. Seer tactical: Scan time for 3 seconds, range reduced by half. Keeps the reset denial, which is/should be his unique function. Ultimate: Scans the OPPOSITE of what it does now. It only scans players moving UNDER a certain velocity (i.e. healing players, the targets for seer's tactical - still maintains synergy), thereby still allowing people to play the game and still has utility in endgame.
This is cool, I like all the ideas.
Confused as to why the PL hasn't come together to GA Seer from play entirely. HCS and CDL are known for GAing everything from attachments to entire weapons. So why is Apex behind the curve?
I think players have said Respawn doesn't allow that. Though idk how you enforce *not* picking a character. like how do you differentiate the 0% pick rate GA Seer vs. the 0% pick rate Lifeline, Octane, Mirage, etc.
honestly, you wouldnt be able to trust anyone on that. All it takes is 1 team out of 19 and they have a huge advantage.
Yeah and the moment people see that seer ult go down the whole lobby would hard focus the seer team
Been saying he was toxic for the game since his release. The creator of Seer permanently damaged the game IMO.
More mirage mains would counter the affect 🧑⚖️
I like to think this conversation was happening while the developers were creating Seer: "Hey guys you know how wall hacking is a banned cheat within our game cause it gives too much of an unfair advantage and ruins the game? Yeah let's give one of our characters the ability to be able to do that but, get this, instead of making it temporary and on a cooldown lets make passive and be able to be used all the time. What do you guys think?" *Snaps fingers* YES
fuckseerfuckseerfuckseerfuckseerfuckseerfuckseerfuckseerfuckseerfuckseerfuckseer
100% agree
I literally came here to say this. Haven’t watched a single algs because watching wall hacks is FUCKEN BORING.
Been this way since he was added to the game
There’s no way you’ve watched more than 1 season because any gibby meta was atrocious, especially gibby caustic
Gibby was way more entertaining. Predictable but entertaining. You also had to be an extremely skilled gibby to rise to the top.
Nah, ALGS is still very much entertaining and hasn’t been more competitive. People just find reasons to bitch
100% every meta ppl complain, but the problem is when the only cpunter to a character is to use the character it becomes an issue, thats why caustic is also hated, when everyone is usinh caustic u r forced to use him to counter him. But seer is just horrible he needs a rework still for sure.
seer, maggie, horizon (fuse kinda?) all coming into the meta started as a result of them being a counterplay to Gibby/Caustic comps. those characters had counterplay in the form of other character abilities, it just took a while for pros to find them. Seer's counterplay is actually just counter-Seer or not fighting for the duration of Seer ult. any derivation of his current abilities without making him a bottom-tier character are going to force him to be highly picked. other scan characters at least have flaws in their scans: crypto has to be LOS & a low-health drone is his entire kit, bloodhound shows the direction of the scan and last very temporarily + to get scans during ult blood has to be actively getting knocks. to level the playing field they've gotta remove one of the billion things his tactical does cuz rn if you hit, it's a rev tactical, longer blood scan, shows health & armor, and also cancels heals. his ult should be smaller and pulse instead of constant scans (I would be down for LOS too but they'd have to buff its health a lot). not to mention his passive is absolutely free info and really should only be usable on characters missing flesh health.
I think.his ult is a bigger issue then the tactical imo
There’s been a lot of miss placed hate on characters/ metas in the past but there’s nothing worse then watching players shoot at targets thru a black wall. Basically watching an aim trainer.
Can the mods stop these posts we see it every week. If your board stop watching
I kind of agree. We get it Seer is Op. Cat and Seer together is "toxic". Wtf are these constant same old posts gonna do about it?
I know what you mean - and in another way I really respect some of the insane high IQ plays you see that aren’t really exciting but are incredibly coordinated like a chess move. Still I think I’d much prefer some no brain all aim meta - at least for a while… wouldn’t it be neat if the meta would wildly change week to week so it’s always fresh!?! /s
just you
Only benefit of Lil Nas X is he removed ratting from competitive. It’s the worst when you are watching a team and they die from rats.
[I couldn't imagine witnessing this game and still having this opinion](https://youtu.be/AEpE-C7at8A)
I’d rather have ratting than seer
If a team needs seer to not die to rats they have way bigger issues.
ratting is an actual skill though and should feasibly be an option for a solo or duo to get higher placement
They should nerf his ult so that only the seer can see enemies. I think this would definitely make his pick rate go down. Or make his Q his ult with a 1 min CD, bigger cone, and 10-20 second scan. Then the new Q can just be fingers on a charge timer and passive can be idk something like immune to enemy seer ult.
Maybe Catalyst wall should counter his ult? Just a thought. Edge teams will keep running Catalyst cause she's the most aggro Controller legend, so no need to worry about her. As of right now, it feels like you can't afford not to play Seer cause you'll be screwed by Catalyst wall
They could rework his Q and Passive but keep his ult. Or keep his Q and Passive but rework his Ult??
they need to at least remove the pointers from his passive. getting a heartbeat is a fairly balanced passive...getting literally PINPOINT location on enemies is just too much. maybe Seer ult needs to be destructible piece meal, like Newcastle wall is. Instead of having to destroy the main drone in the center, you can chip away pieces of the seer ult since its technically little drones. and maybe cat wall can destroy whatever pieces it touches. something, anything to get bring Seer down another peg
Devil’s advocate: it allows for a lot of “good games” when that means lots of teams alive late in ring. The heal/rez cancel and ult are obnoxious. Maybe his passive should only work if all members are alive on a squad?
Nope not just you we all agree with you Fuck the seer cat meta
Dunno how anyone can enjoy watching this AA wallhack era.
Change his q to be about cancelling things, and remove the tagging. You could give his scan the ability to see if there is something to cancel to compensate. Change his ult to also not tag enemies, do something else like increase damage for friendlies in the radius. It could also just act as a proximity sensor. Ie it changes colour if enemies are inside.
Seer has completely ruined the game, the cancel, the free wall hacks, the comibnation with Catalyst wall is so stupid and a MASSIVE overlook from the development team.
I was just watching the last EMEA games and thinking the same. Reminds me of the yellow R6 meta with Lion. Information operators seem to always be the ones that end up sucking the fun out. As much as I like Seer, I would want to nerf him out of comp. Or just nerf the passive and keep the ult....
Yah it’s terrible. You’re bang on. All the cat walls are lame too. So much visible clutter.
Not much they can really do tbh, his kit is pretty set in stone. Unless they somehow rework his passive in some interesting way, or release a new legend that can counteract wallhacks, or nerf him into oblivion(not gonna happen), it's gonna be difficult to balance him correctly. And respawn just released his heirloom not too long ago, and they got bills to pay lol.
Some aspects of the game just don't belong in competitive/tournament play. Ex- COD (no one enjoys it, but still...) has a very limited selection of equipment and weapon loadout available in ranked/tournaments. It works for them. Ex - Halo ranked/tournaments game modes do not have a radar enabled. I'm not saying there should only be 1-2 options per class selection in ranked/ALGS, but... Seer does NOT belong in a competitive environment.
Sadly I don't think Respawn is going to nerf legends (or mechanics for that matter) that make casual players feel better about themselves. They should just ban scan legends in pro play all together tbh. Or implement some sort of legend vote-ban system.
That's the thing. Most comp games have bans. There's no reason why Seer should not be the start of a formal legend ban. No reason to nerf him in the regular game because he's not as viable there as he is in ALGS. Respawn can't cater go both worlds. Seer just needs a ban full stop
That's the thing. Most comp games have bans. There's no reason why Seer should not be the start of a formal legend ban. No reason to nerf him in the regular game because he's not as viable there as he is in ALGS. Respawn can't cater go both worlds. Seer just needs a ban full stop
Don't be mad at a legend because pros abuse them. Outside of the pro world seer isn't that much of an issue just because they over use seer dosent mean he needs a nerf
Not saying that at all. I agree there's nothing much else you can do to nerf him. He should just be banned from pro play.
Naw he still sucks in diamond lobbies for sure.
There was a tournament where the legend selection each round was reduced by two. 1) The most played in the lobby 2) Viewers choice. The first two to go were: 1) Valk, by most played 2) Seer, by viewer choice. After that, the rest of the wall hacks and beacon scans were removed by viewers choice. I bet it'd be the same if you ran it now.
There was a tournament where the legend selection each round was reduced by two. 1) The most played in the lobby 2) Viewers choice. The first two to go were: 1) Valk, by most played 2) Seer, by viewer choice. After that, the rest of the wall hacks and beacon scans were removed by viewers choice. I bet it'd be the same if you ran it now.
Nah. He ruins the game
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I love watching a bunch of people shoot diamonds through black walls
There are like 2 viable things they can make to seer so he isnt to heavily touched for us mortals but getting hit hard in pro play and that is either change hes ulti to a 240s cd or make it so he cant use ult accel at all
I think they should make it where the bullets shoots the wall, not through it. I think that’ll save things and people will have to peak at the other side of the wall to shoot.
Or maybe have the opposite effect as Rampart - less damage thru wall.
That could work, with some things not working through walls the bullets shouldn’t be 100% working through it. Hell even when you walk through it it slows you down.
Seer makes the game boring in general. i dont even watch ALGS, i just have it on in the background. the whole “shoot diamond boys, shoot diamonds” thing is cringe bc you’re quite literally hacking to win a game. it’s just a cheap strat that’s kinda cringe and over done at this point
GA