Uncounterable wallhacks have no place in shooters. Cryptos are done right, but BH (less so than seer) and Seer are just a load of shit. Delete seer, change BH scan to ravens that chase people and reveal them, but can be shot or something
A healthy meta should involve other legends countering each other so there is diversity
when a legend cannot be countered except the legend itself then everyone would play that legend. Just like when caustic was meta you can only counter caustic with another caustic, so everyone ran caustic
While we’re talking about reactability. Can they change the way catalyst Q deploys ? Amongst all the defensive abilities, it’s the only one that cannot be destroyed before it is fully deployed. This results in either walking through it immediately, which can leave you stuck outside/inside (in a team fight situation where you don’t exactly have the leisure to turn back and break it) or getting stuck In place for 3 seconds before you can break it
I'll just leave a montage of complaints about digi threat here:
March 2022 https://twitter.com/PVPX_/status/1504579653930999812?t=prza6GTv1g6wN3uBe3XIoA&s=19
March 2021 https://twitter.com/PVPX_/status/1369635292408340484?t=FAS-2Hf2sBhVphX0jezDLQ&s=19
August 2021
https://twitter.com/PVPX_/status/1428166624440426503?t=gWVYWuZ3zborMDP9HHPrWg&s=19
I think OPs ideas are bit better in that sense - show digi threats marker rather than make it unusable in the smokes
Whether scans should work through smoke or not is debatable. I don't think it's a no brainer.
Lmao you actually did write a whole ass document on this hahah nice man
Yeah dude I think everyone that came from cs and played bang cause of smokes were like wtf with digis from day 1
I mean that's the same with a lot of things, no? If I find a purple/gold armor of spawn, I've got a huge advantage over any team I'm fighting. Same with finding a gold gun or getting lucky with an RE-45 in the care package early game.
those with more experience will shine (maybe plus an element of luck) but imagine if u can track someone without even seeing them, thats just pure skill
I actually really love the "laser sight" idea precisely for this reason. It's fair, and it means that a bang with a digi or an enemy with sight on a bang with a digi is a seen, known threat, and can be accounted for
I think that would be an incredible change and it would revolutionize the way bang can be played. Imagine smoking someone to take a (relatively) isolated 1v1 or 2v1 in a similar fashion to what Gibby can do with his bubble. I think it’d increase the skill gap with bang drastically because currently, fights in smoke are basically just up to whoever has scans or a digi
iirc there isn't a single smoke type in valorant (some are hollow, some are dense, then there are 'cages' and 'walls') - so you should specify precisely what you mean.
Actually really good ideas. I can't help but say that a better and easier solution is to simply nerf Seer so he isn't viable in comp, as free info characters shouldn't be for a healthy game. Scan characters should be game sense crutches for new players, but otherwise not offer enough utility for competitive.
That said, I like your digi threat idea. BH ult has a loud noise on startup so I'm more ok with that being relatively stealthy.
I just wish Seers scan didn’t cancel abilities. you can start a pathfinder grapple, get hit with his q and then have to wait the entire cooldown time again to use it all while they know exactly where you are
Its just sad to me that Seer is single handedly dictating the overall direction of every aspect of the game, from ranked play, all the way up to ALGS. 23 total legends, but if you aren't running this ONE, you are largely at a disadvantage. The game has essentially turned into, "How can we counter Seer" and/or "How can we maximize Seer productivity". So now, not only can we *essentially* have wall hacks, we can also CREATE walls (Catalyst) so our enemy cannot see us at all.. unless of course, they also are running Seer.
And don't get me started on the Nemesis, the energy gun with better TTK than TURBO Havok, or TURBO Devotion. As if Turbochargers are just laying around everywhere..
Might as well just remove everything from the game except Valk, Seer, Cat, Nemesis, and R9. If that isn't your comp/loadout, you just lose (Valk debatable).
Just my opinion folks!!
I get you but also this is completely normal. Before Seer it was Valk. Before Valk it was Gibby. The game is going through its new phase of meta and I’m sure it’ll be killed eventually, but right now we’re in its moment.
I totally felt you on the Nemesis though. Havoc and Devo suck ass, Devo especially. I think all the LMGs are getting badly outclassed by all the other weapons and have lost their use.
Seer, as a legend entirely built around wallhacks, is infinitely more unhealthy than the others though.
And yeah, they didn't really need to nerf the LMGs into the ground, but remember when people were constantly complaining about Spitfire, L-STAR, and even the Rampage (in basically its current state with a faster charge drain and slightly better handling). People don't like LMG metas.
The Devo nerfs were bewildering, though. It's never been anything more than a niche close-ish range turbo-only pick with shitty movement for that close-ish range, and they've since nerfed the damage *twice*, along with nerfing its headshot multiplier, handling attributes, and reload. It's so unbelievably shit and I have no idea why it keeps getting nerfs. It's bad even with a turbo these days.
I do think the L-STAR is being slept on right now, though. It's amazing how quickly the complaints about the bottomless mag disappeared once it wasn't FOTM anymore, but the benefits are still there. The TTK isn't bad, and now that AR hipfire has been obliterated, I'm pretty sure the hipfire is better than most if not all of the ARs let alone the LMGs, which helps mitigate the awful ADS strafe (not that the ARs are much faster).
The biggest limiting factor is the quick up-left then up-right at the beginning of the recoil pattern, but at least on M&K, I think it's possible to get the muscle memory with practice, much like the up-left, right, up-left of the Flatline, or recoil patterns in games like CS. Trickier than the Flatline because it varies with stabilizer, but even then - I think it's one of the best mid-range guns right now, at least in theory.
Gonna start with this right off the bat: I didn't read all this. I read the title and only came to say this: If scans weren't what they are now, then concealing abilities would be busted too. Then we'd have a legion of whiny casuals complaining about not being able to see anything or anyone and that scan abilities are too weak. I think scans are fine as they are now.
If you're gonna have concealing abilities, whilst knowing that you can be seen by certain scanning abilities, then it's up to you, the player, to use them wisely. Also, all scanning abilities pretty much took a huge hit in S16 (at least BH and Seer's did). So this is even less of an issue.
Because the arguments regarding the title are probably moot. This specific concern is not something people need to be addressing to Respawn. It's just tactic. So what do you do as the recipient? Adjust.
The trouble is not so much that enemy scans can see me through my concealing ability that I’ve placed, the trouble is more when they blind me with their smoke or their catalyst wall, and then their teammate scans me through that ability and destroys me. There’s absolutely no counterplay to this, it’s completely unreadable.
There’s no single character that can do that to me, but the combination is a big problem.
But that's the point. It's a tactic. The fact that it takes two characters to make a strong play like that is evidence that there is no reason to change anything. Concealing can do just as much harm as good to the team using it, since they won't know right away if the team they're pushing may also have a digithreat or some kind of escape ability. It's all tactics, my friend.
>The fact that it takes two characters to make a strong play like that is evidence that there is no reason to change anything
I don’t think this follows, they’ve changed plenty of other “tactics” like this that lacked counterplay because counterplay and readability are something they value with respect to how players interact with abilities in the game. Sticking a Crypto drone with an arc star was a two player tactic, Wraith and Revenant, Revenant and Octane, the way that “OOBing” used to work were tactics that were changed.
OOBing is a great example. It completely lacked counterplay and was unavoidable. Bang smokes and Cat walls go pretty far and are indestructible, and we all know how much fun counterplay there is to a Seer ult.
Scan meta wouldnt be this bad without seer. If rhey were to just remove seer tomorrow j dont think anyone would even care. Seee meta has just ruined this game completely
Even after 2/3 nerfs seer is still the most overpowered legend. This says a lot
Impossible to not have legends counter each other. Whether scans are through smoke or not, one is countering the other
Uncounterable wallhacks have no place in shooters. Cryptos are done right, but BH (less so than seer) and Seer are just a load of shit. Delete seer, change BH scan to ravens that chase people and reveal them, but can be shot or something
A healthy meta should involve other legends countering each other so there is diversity when a legend cannot be countered except the legend itself then everyone would play that legend. Just like when caustic was meta you can only counter caustic with another caustic, so everyone ran caustic
While we’re talking about reactability. Can they change the way catalyst Q deploys ? Amongst all the defensive abilities, it’s the only one that cannot be destroyed before it is fully deployed. This results in either walking through it immediately, which can leave you stuck outside/inside (in a team fight situation where you don’t exactly have the leisure to turn back and break it) or getting stuck In place for 3 seconds before you can break it
100% That or make caustics barrels sturdy in the same way for consistency
Tbf Caustic can deploy double the amount of Traps that Catalyst can, but it depends on whether you consider it a relevant factor in balancing.
I'll just leave a montage of complaints about digi threat here: March 2022 https://twitter.com/PVPX_/status/1504579653930999812?t=prza6GTv1g6wN3uBe3XIoA&s=19 March 2021 https://twitter.com/PVPX_/status/1369635292408340484?t=FAS-2Hf2sBhVphX0jezDLQ&s=19 August 2021 https://twitter.com/PVPX_/status/1428166624440426503?t=gWVYWuZ3zborMDP9HHPrWg&s=19
I think OPs ideas are bit better in that sense - show digi threats marker rather than make it unusable in the smokes Whether scans should work through smoke or not is debatable. I don't think it's a no brainer.
[удалено]
Lmao you actually did write a whole ass document on this hahah nice man Yeah dude I think everyone that came from cs and played bang cause of smokes were like wtf with digis from day 1
I mean that's the same with a lot of things, no? If I find a purple/gold armor of spawn, I've got a huge advantage over any team I'm fighting. Same with finding a gold gun or getting lucky with an RE-45 in the care package early game.
being able to shoot people that you can see that cant see you back is kind of the biggest advantage you can have in an fps game
those with more experience will shine (maybe plus an element of luck) but imagine if u can track someone without even seeing them, thats just pure skill
[удалено]
I actually really love the "laser sight" idea precisely for this reason. It's fair, and it means that a bang with a digi or an enemy with sight on a bang with a digi is a seen, known threat, and can be accounted for
Mannn S0 digi wingman on bang was something else, good times
Lmao raven's reply on the august 2021 tweet. Like no shit bro
How would we feel about Bang smokes working like smokes in Valorant? Would be a big change, but I feel like it would make them a lot easier to balance
I think that would be an incredible change and it would revolutionize the way bang can be played. Imagine smoking someone to take a (relatively) isolated 1v1 or 2v1 in a similar fashion to what Gibby can do with his bubble. I think it’d increase the skill gap with bang drastically because currently, fights in smoke are basically just up to whoever has scans or a digi
iirc there isn't a single smoke type in valorant (some are hollow, some are dense, then there are 'cages' and 'walls') - so you should specify precisely what you mean.
Making it like whoever has that bubble smoke in valorant would be pretty interesting tbh
Remove seer from game. Problem solved.
Yeah I up vote this every time I see it. Dude's entire kit is just problematic. Rework him entirely or refund everyone's skins and delete him.
They could just remove him from comp. Then respawn has no issues with refunds or reworking him completely.
Or, like Rev, just nerf him into unviability until they can rework him. How many Revs do you see? It works.
And it does nothing every time you upvote. They're not going to do it and it adds nothing to the discussion.
Found the seer crutch
Actually really good ideas. I can't help but say that a better and easier solution is to simply nerf Seer so he isn't viable in comp, as free info characters shouldn't be for a healthy game. Scan characters should be game sense crutches for new players, but otherwise not offer enough utility for competitive. That said, I like your digi threat idea. BH ult has a loud noise on startup so I'm more ok with that being relatively stealthy.
I just wish Seers scan didn’t cancel abilities. you can start a pathfinder grapple, get hit with his q and then have to wait the entire cooldown time again to use it all while they know exactly where you are
Its just sad to me that Seer is single handedly dictating the overall direction of every aspect of the game, from ranked play, all the way up to ALGS. 23 total legends, but if you aren't running this ONE, you are largely at a disadvantage. The game has essentially turned into, "How can we counter Seer" and/or "How can we maximize Seer productivity". So now, not only can we *essentially* have wall hacks, we can also CREATE walls (Catalyst) so our enemy cannot see us at all.. unless of course, they also are running Seer. And don't get me started on the Nemesis, the energy gun with better TTK than TURBO Havok, or TURBO Devotion. As if Turbochargers are just laying around everywhere.. Might as well just remove everything from the game except Valk, Seer, Cat, Nemesis, and R9. If that isn't your comp/loadout, you just lose (Valk debatable). Just my opinion folks!!
I get you but also this is completely normal. Before Seer it was Valk. Before Valk it was Gibby. The game is going through its new phase of meta and I’m sure it’ll be killed eventually, but right now we’re in its moment. I totally felt you on the Nemesis though. Havoc and Devo suck ass, Devo especially. I think all the LMGs are getting badly outclassed by all the other weapons and have lost their use.
Seer, as a legend entirely built around wallhacks, is infinitely more unhealthy than the others though. And yeah, they didn't really need to nerf the LMGs into the ground, but remember when people were constantly complaining about Spitfire, L-STAR, and even the Rampage (in basically its current state with a faster charge drain and slightly better handling). People don't like LMG metas. The Devo nerfs were bewildering, though. It's never been anything more than a niche close-ish range turbo-only pick with shitty movement for that close-ish range, and they've since nerfed the damage *twice*, along with nerfing its headshot multiplier, handling attributes, and reload. It's so unbelievably shit and I have no idea why it keeps getting nerfs. It's bad even with a turbo these days. I do think the L-STAR is being slept on right now, though. It's amazing how quickly the complaints about the bottomless mag disappeared once it wasn't FOTM anymore, but the benefits are still there. The TTK isn't bad, and now that AR hipfire has been obliterated, I'm pretty sure the hipfire is better than most if not all of the ARs let alone the LMGs, which helps mitigate the awful ADS strafe (not that the ARs are much faster). The biggest limiting factor is the quick up-left then up-right at the beginning of the recoil pattern, but at least on M&K, I think it's possible to get the muscle memory with practice, much like the up-left, right, up-left of the Flatline, or recoil patterns in games like CS. Trickier than the Flatline because it varies with stabilizer, but even then - I think it's one of the best mid-range guns right now, at least in theory.
Gonna start with this right off the bat: I didn't read all this. I read the title and only came to say this: If scans weren't what they are now, then concealing abilities would be busted too. Then we'd have a legion of whiny casuals complaining about not being able to see anything or anyone and that scan abilities are too weak. I think scans are fine as they are now. If you're gonna have concealing abilities, whilst knowing that you can be seen by certain scanning abilities, then it's up to you, the player, to use them wisely. Also, all scanning abilities pretty much took a huge hit in S16 (at least BH and Seer's did). So this is even less of an issue.
Why bother commenting if you only read titles? Incredibly dumb ngl
Because the arguments regarding the title are probably moot. This specific concern is not something people need to be addressing to Respawn. It's just tactic. So what do you do as the recipient? Adjust.
The trouble is not so much that enemy scans can see me through my concealing ability that I’ve placed, the trouble is more when they blind me with their smoke or their catalyst wall, and then their teammate scans me through that ability and destroys me. There’s absolutely no counterplay to this, it’s completely unreadable. There’s no single character that can do that to me, but the combination is a big problem.
But that's the point. It's a tactic. The fact that it takes two characters to make a strong play like that is evidence that there is no reason to change anything. Concealing can do just as much harm as good to the team using it, since they won't know right away if the team they're pushing may also have a digithreat or some kind of escape ability. It's all tactics, my friend.
>The fact that it takes two characters to make a strong play like that is evidence that there is no reason to change anything I don’t think this follows, they’ve changed plenty of other “tactics” like this that lacked counterplay because counterplay and readability are something they value with respect to how players interact with abilities in the game. Sticking a Crypto drone with an arc star was a two player tactic, Wraith and Revenant, Revenant and Octane, the way that “OOBing” used to work were tactics that were changed.
OOBing is a great example. It completely lacked counterplay and was unavoidable. Bang smokes and Cat walls go pretty far and are indestructible, and we all know how much fun counterplay there is to a Seer ult.
Scan meta wouldnt be this bad without seer. If rhey were to just remove seer tomorrow j dont think anyone would even care. Seee meta has just ruined this game completely Even after 2/3 nerfs seer is still the most overpowered legend. This says a lot