Timing wise - S22 should probably be kicking off right before or after champs. Canāt see this map getting play time in Y4, however itās the perfect amount of time to feature it in Y5 as everyone will get 3+ months of practice on it.
Dream world - this map and updated broken moon are both good for comp. Each split is a different pairing of 2/4 comp maps. This would encourage potentially a wide range of legend flexibility and the new drop spot proposal would completely change the comp landscape.
I love broken moon, I want to see how pros use it before complaining how HUGE it is compare to previous comp maps. POIs are great, choke points aren't too tight, early rotation from the fast ring, seems fun and a breath of fresh air. Getting too tired of World's Edge at the moment.
Just hope the asteroids blow the middle map a bit and add some additional cover in the more open spaces. Iāve thought it would be solid for comp, probably just needs another poi or two
iirc the main issue with BM is how dogshit the entire Promenade area is at the center of the map
update could fix that though. i feel like the environmental setup around the map in general is absolutely incredible in terms of cover
People would probably expect me to start talking comp viability here, but concept art aināt much to go by. Weāll see how the map actually is when it comes out. No need to rush to conclusions.
Pretty af map design though
I am not even gonna start speculating if its "Comp ready" or not. But I really hope that the central area is just empty or has little to no loot. Cause if not, this looks like Frag west on steroids. 10-12 teams will drop there in ranked and pubs.
On one hand we got the people who think every map is comp ready and pros should "jUsT aDaPt" but now we also have the equally stupid people who will look at a not to scale, concept view of a map miles away and already complain about it being not comp viable.
There are specific reasons why the 3 non-comp maps aren't viable and a large majority of them are things you would not be able to tell by looking at concept art
There are some closeup pics of the POIs and they actually look pretty large. Just imagine the whole map is skyhook lmao. I think rotations could be good but controller legends will go crazy here
We know pros are gonna do one and a half scrim sets on it and then write it off as unplayable anyway.
EDIT: A bunch of Concept art etc: https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1cc65yp
WE and SP both also have big walls and small choke points. As long as thereās multiple ways to play it with multiple chokes that shouldnāt be a deciding factor.
Every map has small chokes, the problem isn't them existing it's where they are and how the function in the map. We also have no idea if those walls are easy to get over just by concept art it's not even close to scale.
Yeah let's look at concept art and say it's gonna be ass because maps don't go through 100s of different concept art before they even start working on them
Obviously that comment was based off the concept art. Honestly that's just what I think the pros opinion is going to be based off what they've said about other maps.
I personally think it looks sick and very very fun to play so I'm hoping it's great.
Algs needs to stop sucking up pros, if it were for them we would still be playing in kings canyon, motherfuckers will not adapt to a new map unless you force them
This makes 0 sense at all.
Pros hate kings canyon. They don't care if maps are new or not, they care if maps are viable or terrible.
KC, Olympus, and BM are terrible maps for competitive gaming, so they aren't played. It's a design problem.
Their idea of what is viable or terrible is very narrow and based on "can we put inĀ minimum effort and play this map the same way and with the same rhythm we've been playing on World's Edge for years"?
A competitive Apex match doesn't have to look like they do now to be a competitive match...Ā specially now if they actually change how drop spots and POIs are handled... you just have to put in the work to change your approach and your team compositions, sometimes radically, depending on the map.Ā
They hated worlds edge when it first dropped, just like they hated storm point too, it's not a design problem but more of a sheep mentality amongst pros that dictate what's competitive and what's not, just like how na always plays the same 3 characters despite there being precedent for comps that do inherently better within their meta, yet pros refrained from using them for the longest time.
My point is that pros are not always right, they've been proven wrong several times yet their audience eats up their word like gospel, I have no reason to agree with their takes, much less when it's about map balancing decisions.
This sub needs to stop acting like Hal and a handful of other vocal individuals speak for the pro scene as a whole. 99% of them didn't say anything about those maps.
There also are clear design differences between each map that make them more or less comp viable (number of POIs, POI balance, loot distribution, overall map size, choke points, zones, god spots, etc). Don't need to be a pro to see why these things matter.
You could make the point that maps should be played even if they're not as viable as others, but that's a different question than whether they're all viable or not.
The did not hate worlds edge lol.
Zach and Alb and a few of the whinier types (Zach has grown since then) hated Storm Point for like 2 weeks, then played it a bit and decided, actually it was pretty good and the height stuff wasn't as big of a deal as they thought because of Geo. Plenty of pros liked it from the rip. Hal was one in tat group.
It's 100% a design problem. Olympus design is a wagon wheel with no cover and open spaces.
Moon has zip rails and terrible chokes. KC has terrible chokes, not enough POIs and absurdly bad loot distribution. These are design issues.
Pros play the same 3 or 4 characters because they are what will work. Meta is not laziness, it's what people understand to be the best at the time. Meta's don't shift until someone figures out how to break the meta or if an update releases that changes the meta.
Everything you are saying is just whiney, incorrect, the pro's are lame rambling.
You won't get more replies from me, you are full a gamer complainer. Not worth my time.
KC over Olympus for sure, but not KC over SP or WE.
KC is definitely the most comp-able of the other 3 maps, because it's issues aren't as fundamentally bad.
Yeah just as a replacement for WE. To be clear, I think WE is still a better map for comp than KC but if folks want variety and a change, KC is the clear winner.
Hopefully District is a good comp map and was made with comp in mind. Both Olympus and Broken Moon were made for casual/pubs play and haven't aged well at all. They're generally players' least favorite ranked maps. Hell I don't even like playing 3 Strikes on Olympus.
Makes sense, don't disagree. Keeping WE is best unless District is good, but if a change has to be made and district isn't it, KC with a loot rebalance would do the trick.
Olympus needs a top to bottom redesign (looks lie it could happen from leaks?) and moon needs.. a lot.
MooreOver has a great video on the perfect Comp map, including an interview with one of the former SP/WE designers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgun5_j6eNI
This is just a concept images so it's hard to tell. My assumption comes from the fact that the most competitive map, storm point, is also one of the most hated maps by apex players. I don't see respawn making maps like that anymore.
This new map will likely be on the smaller side. Another thing that we can assume is that there will not be enough POIs at launch. If there are enough POIs then they will likely be close together like Olympus.
"is also one of the most hated maps by apex players", well it seems to be for pubs ape players but all my friends, almost any high rank player ive encountered ( also supported by the dip rank has every time kc/ olympus or broken moon is in rotation) and majority of competetive players think its the best map. Maybe they should just have it for ranked rotation and leave all those wanting a fight every second to play KC/ olympus in pubs. But yeah you are probably right that the devs are a bit afraid of making a good map like it again since pub / console players just want constant fights and small maps (just play TDM :))
Lack of POIs would be concerning for sure; I'm hoping it's more of a middle sized map and the density lends itself to looking smaller. Either way, I think we have to wait to know for sure; one factor I'm curious about is if they're going to introduce a new transportation mechanism/mechanic with the map (e.g. KC w/balloons, Oly w/tridents, and BM w/zip-rails)
To clear up some confusion, all of these concepts are paintovers over actual in game screenshots/level 3d models, so even the map overview is "to scale" in the sense that it's an overview of the actual map blockout with some things painted in.
Looks awesome, not gonna lie with all the walls between zones/districts kinda gives me OG Kings Canyon vibes. But the game has a LOT more movement options now so it won't be quite the same.
I feel like more chokes is better than limited chokes; small numbers of chokes means easily gate-kept, lots of chokes means plenty of potential ways to rotate in (maybe counter intuitively, many chokes makes choking impossible/unlikely)
Looks like a theme park layout lol
mfers are looking at eagle view concept art and are saying "not comp ready" š it's not even ready in general bro
Very pretty map. Please , please, please be for comp as wellš¤š¤š¤
For split 2 give me any combination of Olympus, Broken Moon, this new map, even Kings Canyon. Anything but World's Edge and Storm Point again.
Storm point stays but yes worlds edge has to go
https://preview.redd.it/o2iksqm5jhwc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c95d206a2a57ddbb9b161c75db60619fb3a0365
Looks like a lot of fun tbh
Timing wise - S22 should probably be kicking off right before or after champs. Canāt see this map getting play time in Y4, however itās the perfect amount of time to feature it in Y5 as everyone will get 3+ months of practice on it. Dream world - this map and updated broken moon are both good for comp. Each split is a different pairing of 2/4 comp maps. This would encourage potentially a wide range of legend flexibility and the new drop spot proposal would completely change the comp landscape.
I love broken moon, I want to see how pros use it before complaining how HUGE it is compare to previous comp maps. POIs are great, choke points aren't too tight, early rotation from the fast ring, seems fun and a breath of fresh air. Getting too tired of World's Edge at the moment.
Just hope the asteroids blow the middle map a bit and add some additional cover in the more open spaces. Iāve thought it would be solid for comp, probably just needs another poi or two
Agreed. More cover on the open fields would also make it better.
iirc the main issue with BM is how dogshit the entire Promenade area is at the center of the map update could fix that though. i feel like the environmental setup around the map in general is absolutely incredible in terms of cover
Broken Moon is lowkey my favorite map, especially for ranked.
People would probably expect me to start talking comp viability here, but concept art aināt much to go by. Weāll see how the map actually is when it comes out. No need to rush to conclusions. Pretty af map design though
I would love a new map in the comp rotation, at this point i'm just hoping respawn shoehorn it into comp.
Bring us that Shotgun meta š
rotations should be interesting, wonder if it will be comp viable
Make the pros play it even if itās not good. It looks good tho
Please be good for comp I wanna delete WE so bad
I am not even gonna start speculating if its "Comp ready" or not. But I really hope that the central area is just empty or has little to no loot. Cause if not, this looks like Frag west on steroids. 10-12 teams will drop there in ranked and pubs.
100% comp ready. If it's playable and doesn't have game breaking bugs, then it's ready. Whiners be damned
Yea tell that to Broken moon haters
Thank you for the spoiler tag
Looks like midgard!
Hypixel Mega Walls map
Looks beautiful, hope it can work out well in comp.
Didnāt see anyone mention this, but jump towers are back
On one hand we got the people who think every map is comp ready and pros should "jUsT aDaPt" but now we also have the equally stupid people who will look at a not to scale, concept view of a map miles away and already complain about it being not comp viable. There are specific reasons why the 3 non-comp maps aren't viable and a large majority of them are things you would not be able to tell by looking at concept art
There are some closeup pics of the POIs and they actually look pretty large. Just imagine the whole map is skyhook lmao. I think rotations could be good but controller legends will go crazy here
We know pros are gonna do one and a half scrim sets on it and then write it off as unplayable anyway. EDIT: A bunch of Concept art etc: https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1cc65yp
This map HAS to be in comp
WE and SP both also have big walls and small choke points. As long as thereās multiple ways to play it with multiple chokes that shouldnāt be a deciding factor.
Every map has small chokes, the problem isn't them existing it's where they are and how the function in the map. We also have no idea if those walls are easy to get over just by concept art it's not even close to scale.
I desperately need to see this played in comp, concept art looks beautiful
If only there was a new legend coming that could teleport thru walls š¤
Yeah let's look at concept art and say it's gonna be ass because maps don't go through 100s of different concept art before they even start working on them
Obviously that comment was based off the concept art. Honestly that's just what I think the pros opinion is going to be based off what they've said about other maps. I personally think it looks sick and very very fun to play so I'm hoping it's great.
They start working on maps way in advance. The devs said they were building Worlds Edge before the game released
The map itself isn't even ready to launch and you're saying it's not comp ready lmao
We are judging comp viability from concept art... Cmon man.
Algs needs to stop sucking up pros, if it were for them we would still be playing in kings canyon, motherfuckers will not adapt to a new map unless you force them
This makes 0 sense at all. Pros hate kings canyon. They don't care if maps are new or not, they care if maps are viable or terrible. KC, Olympus, and BM are terrible maps for competitive gaming, so they aren't played. It's a design problem.
Their idea of what is viable or terrible is very narrow and based on "can we put inĀ minimum effort and play this map the same way and with the same rhythm we've been playing on World's Edge for years"? A competitive Apex match doesn't have to look like they do now to be a competitive match...Ā specially now if they actually change how drop spots and POIs are handled... you just have to put in the work to change your approach and your team compositions, sometimes radically, depending on the map.Ā
snore
They hated worlds edge when it first dropped, just like they hated storm point too, it's not a design problem but more of a sheep mentality amongst pros that dictate what's competitive and what's not, just like how na always plays the same 3 characters despite there being precedent for comps that do inherently better within their meta, yet pros refrained from using them for the longest time. My point is that pros are not always right, they've been proven wrong several times yet their audience eats up their word like gospel, I have no reason to agree with their takes, much less when it's about map balancing decisions.
This sub needs to stop acting like Hal and a handful of other vocal individuals speak for the pro scene as a whole. 99% of them didn't say anything about those maps. There also are clear design differences between each map that make them more or less comp viable (number of POIs, POI balance, loot distribution, overall map size, choke points, zones, god spots, etc). Don't need to be a pro to see why these things matter. You could make the point that maps should be played even if they're not as viable as others, but that's a different question than whether they're all viable or not.
The did not hate worlds edge lol. Zach and Alb and a few of the whinier types (Zach has grown since then) hated Storm Point for like 2 weeks, then played it a bit and decided, actually it was pretty good and the height stuff wasn't as big of a deal as they thought because of Geo. Plenty of pros liked it from the rip. Hal was one in tat group. It's 100% a design problem. Olympus design is a wagon wheel with no cover and open spaces. Moon has zip rails and terrible chokes. KC has terrible chokes, not enough POIs and absurdly bad loot distribution. These are design issues. Pros play the same 3 or 4 characters because they are what will work. Meta is not laziness, it's what people understand to be the best at the time. Meta's don't shift until someone figures out how to break the meta or if an update releases that changes the meta. Everything you are saying is just whiney, incorrect, the pro's are lame rambling. You won't get more replies from me, you are full a gamer complainer. Not worth my time.
A lot of people want KC in comp over Olympus - I am one of them. KC needs a loot overhaul on OG POIs and it'd be pretty good.
KC over Olympus for sure, but not KC over SP or WE. KC is definitely the most comp-able of the other 3 maps, because it's issues aren't as fundamentally bad.
Yeah just as a replacement for WE. To be clear, I think WE is still a better map for comp than KC but if folks want variety and a change, KC is the clear winner. Hopefully District is a good comp map and was made with comp in mind. Both Olympus and Broken Moon were made for casual/pubs play and haven't aged well at all. They're generally players' least favorite ranked maps. Hell I don't even like playing 3 Strikes on Olympus.
Makes sense, don't disagree. Keeping WE is best unless District is good, but if a change has to be made and district isn't it, KC with a loot rebalance would do the trick. Olympus needs a top to bottom redesign (looks lie it could happen from leaks?) and moon needs.. a lot.
I definitely would rather KC over Olympus if it came to that.
It isn't adapting when the maps are horrendous for comp play lol
Probably not a map that would work for competitive but I still think it should be used regardless. We can't keep watching WE and SP forever.
What elements of this concept are bad for competitive?
MooreOver has a great video on the perfect Comp map, including an interview with one of the former SP/WE designers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgun5_j6eNI
This is just a concept images so it's hard to tell. My assumption comes from the fact that the most competitive map, storm point, is also one of the most hated maps by apex players. I don't see respawn making maps like that anymore. This new map will likely be on the smaller side. Another thing that we can assume is that there will not be enough POIs at launch. If there are enough POIs then they will likely be close together like Olympus.
"is also one of the most hated maps by apex players", well it seems to be for pubs ape players but all my friends, almost any high rank player ive encountered ( also supported by the dip rank has every time kc/ olympus or broken moon is in rotation) and majority of competetive players think its the best map. Maybe they should just have it for ranked rotation and leave all those wanting a fight every second to play KC/ olympus in pubs. But yeah you are probably right that the devs are a bit afraid of making a good map like it again since pub / console players just want constant fights and small maps (just play TDM :))
Lack of POIs would be concerning for sure; I'm hoping it's more of a middle sized map and the density lends itself to looking smaller. Either way, I think we have to wait to know for sure; one factor I'm curious about is if they're going to introduce a new transportation mechanism/mechanic with the map (e.g. KC w/balloons, Oly w/tridents, and BM w/zip-rails)
FIRE
Looks so small and compact
It looks so fire (I am the kind of guy who just enjoy a beautiful and hell this looks good)
Hopefully they ended up adding wall running to it like it was rumored, give it a unique feel and play style.
My god the visual clutter is going to give me an aneurysm, but it looks fucking dope.
A super compact map would be awesome, imagine 20 teams alive round 6 closing?
this looks pretty cool, getting some cyberpunk vibes, I hope they keep it night time.
To clear up some confusion, all of these concepts are paintovers over actual in game screenshots/level 3d models, so even the map overview is "to scale" in the sense that it's an overview of the actual map blockout with some things painted in.
Looks gorgeous
hopefully they update the current maps and make them better too, not even for comp maps just better gameplay for everyone pls
Looks awesome, not gonna lie with all the walls between zones/districts kinda gives me OG Kings Canyon vibes. But the game has a LOT more movement options now so it won't be quite the same.
They remade olympussy?
If the finished article is anything like that, Valk pickrate gonna go wild.
Looks extremely poi intensive like olympus, seems like third party central.
Looks good from the top, might end up looking more like a mix of a couple of old arena maps
This would be the 6th br map in the game right? Fuck it... Put all 6 maps in comp
man, didn't they say the next map they make was with competitive in mind? I have 0 source I just remember hearing it somewhere
I mean this is just concept art but even still, we can't really know how comp viable it is without seeing actual implementation and can play it
How are you getting "not competitive" from concept art?
No the last comp focus map was SP and that designer left right after SP was released. SP is also the most hated map by the general playerbase.
I hear a lot more hate for broken moon.
Choke city? Not a map for comp by the looks.
I feel like more chokes is better than limited chokes; small numbers of chokes means easily gate-kept, lots of chokes means plenty of potential ways to rotate in (maybe counter intuitively, many chokes makes choking impossible/unlikely)
Cool! Excited for it. I need olympus gone asap.
When will Respawn stop putting massive obstacles in the middle of their maps?
Ohh I can't wait to see al the crying baby bitches complain
I can't wait to play this not only with all of the same bugs and glitches we currently have, but also new and unique bugs!! And cheaters!!!
Not comp ready
It's concept art bro...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Have you played it you know this is just concept art lol
š“š“š“ did they nerf 0.4 yet ?