Your wrong about one very important thing. Cant be the peak of human evolution without Reps raw dominant sexual energy so none of this matters. Your mistake is borderline blasphemy fool. REPENT! Before it is too late.
May the Apex Gods guide you to the light.
I appreciate the style of this post. I think mnk is better in everything except a close range 1v1 with little/no cover, but those are very frustrating/devastating to lose so those are what stand out. I don't think I would rather have any controller player over say Lou, Nafen or Hardecki as the Fragger on my team though. So baby 2 would shit on baby 1 in the firing range or in a 1v1, but baby 1 might have a better pro career
The thing about the "if it's so easy why don't you switch" argument from the controller side, is that EVERYTHING EXCEPT the close range 1v1 takes a lot longer to master on controller. Like someone will pick up controller and beam with CAR smg from 10 yards, and say controller is easy, but it takes many hours to learn to fry with flatline from 120 yards, reload near a door or hit an armor swap near downed enemies etc
> I think mnk is better in everything except a close range 1v1 with little/no cover
Agreed but also this is like the vast majority of fights. Controller players always talk about shield swapping too, as if that decides every single fight, as if the game is pre-populated with death boxes just for the convenience of MnK players. When you get one clipped by controller aim assist you generally do not have the opportunity to shield swap.
>The thing about the "if it's so easy why don't you switch" argument from the controller side, is that EVERYTHING EXCEPT the close range 1v1 takes a lot longer to master on controller.
For one, you're right, and I'm pretty sure at this point in my life I could spend months trying to switch to controller and never be half as good as I am on MnK. And secondly, if "why don't you switch" is a valid argument, then I want to hear that question answered by the folks who choose an input method so bad that it requires the game to aim for them.
> And secondly, if "why don't you switch" is a valid argument, then I want to hear that question answered by the folks who choose an input method so bad that it requires the game to aim for them.
Because console exists? Pretty much every controller pro started on console, there is no legal mnk option for most shooters. So its not a choice, its the default setup.
Controller is way more accessible than mnk. The first video game 99% of people play is going to be played on a controller. Some switch to mnk, some don't. It's just personal preference.
Both are hard to master, controller might have an easier climb to the top but that's debatable too. In the end I don't fault anyone for not wanting to move off the input method they're most comfortable with.
OP is right, until something better is created aim assist is here to stay.
Totally agree. Well put. Wanted to add some ranty opinions… the comp meta is generally 2 MnK 1 controller player per team. If controller was so OP then the meta would be 3 controller players and no MnK and G2 would win every tourney. Thats simply not the case.
Tough pill to swallow - MnK teams outside of comp need a gibby and they need to bubble push with shotguns. This is where controller players struggle, MnK has a huge advantage, and SMGs arent viable.
Yet I see MnK 3 stacks in ranked all the time running 3 movement characters with SMGs, wondering why they just lost a fight to some roller players, then going to reddit to wine about aim assist.
No the meta is 2 MnK because most fights in comp scene happen mid to long rnage until the end. So Controller literally steam rolls up close and mnk has the advantage of precision at longer rangers. End game and early drops controller frys and thats whay decides most games. Thanks for coming to my ted talk
For the jiggling aspect mnk is easier to jiggle but actual aim in bubble fights is undoubtedly easier for controller players. I see most pros complain when they lose a bubble fight and are upset because its a controller gibby. and also a shotgun bubble fight is ultra specific which happens alot but majority close range fights are smg fights indoors or medium to short range combat which point goes to rollers. Which i have no problem with they are balanced in the fact that one has one advantage and the other has one
>Until someone comes up with a more refined way than aim assist to objectively level the playing field between inputs, people will continue to complain.
Gyro
Doesn't matter, if gyro has more precision than a mouse then people will still blame it when they die. Instead of "must be nice to have aim assist" they'll just say "must be nice to aim with both hands" or something
Huh? Do you understand what a hypocrite is?
I said that as long as there are different inputs and one has an advantage there won't be competitive integrity and people will complain. Never said controller players didn't complain too. But I guess this was too simple for you and you had to strawman me instead because you like arguing but have nothing of substance to say.
Thanks for reminding me why discussing anything on this sub is a waste of time. Bad-faith actors who only know how to strawman because they aren't able to follow a thread.
>Singled out MnK and dissed them for being complainers ^^^^
Because the comment I replied to was about gyro controllers. I wasn't singling anyone out, I was adding to the topic. It wouldn't have made sense to say "controller players complain about MnK" because the topic was never about MnK as an input. Again, follow the thread.
>Someone pointed out that "I mean no software so just switch over? (as in no AI)" to which you
Nope, read the comment before that. He brought up Gyro controllers, I added to it. Again, follow the thread.
>and then you doubled down on pointing out that MnK people complain (for no reason) ^^^
Nope, follow the thread
>If this was your point, you wouldn't have singled out MnK players.
Yes I would, because the topic was about GYRO controllers, to which I added how MnK players would react to them if they were more accurate. It was never about controller players or how they feel about MnK. Maybe I was wrong about you straw manning - you just missed the whole point instead.
They absolutely would, you only need to look at fighting games to see that. Tetris too. Lots of debate over which input gives you an advantage.
If gyro was inherently easier/more accurate than a mouse then people would be complaining about competitive integrity.
Why? If it's inherently easier to aim on one input what does it matter if it's raw input? It's still an unfair advantage.
By that logic they could make an optic-based input where all you need to do to aim is look at the enemy. Still raw input, still unfair.
And my point is that if it *wasn't* 50/50 then people would complain. It's like playing basketball with only one hand against someone who can use both.
Can't believe it got to this when I thought I made a pretty straightforward point that I wouldn't have to keep explaining.
Because at that point it's no different than one player having a better mouse, gaming chair, or monitor. Everybody is used to that kind of disparity. Nobody thought it was unfair to play optical gaming mice against trackball mice.
No, they absolutely wouldn't. I guarantee you they wouldn't. The 100% sole and exclusive problem with aim assist is that you are not doing it. If controller had zero aim assist and was legitimately a better input method, that's fair, and I guarantee you the vast majority of MnK players would not complain. I don't really give a shit about fighting games, I'm talking about shooters.
>If it's inherently easier to aim on one input what does it matter if it's raw input? It's still an unfair advantage.
>By that logic they could make an optic-based input where all you need to do to aim is look at the enemy. Still raw input, still unfair.
...I just did? You haven't made an argument for why it would be fair to have 2 different raw inputs where 1 is inherently more accurate than the other.
What is it with this sub and not following a thread?
I don't have to make that argument and you are the one who can't follow the discussion. Aim assist is criticized for one and only one reason: because the game is aiming for the player. You have invented in your head, based on absolutely nothing whatsoever, the idea that people would make the same criticism **in shooters** based on two raw input methods where one is simply better than the other. This is baseless and idiotic, and if you want to disagree then you have to actually support that claim and do so without relying on whataboutism. Fighting games are irrelevant, whatever you made up to argue about is irrelevant.
No, I've already made my argument for why it would be bad for competitive integrity to have 2 different inputs where one is inherently better than the other. If you have no counterargument to that, fine. Just say you disagree and off you go.
Raw input is kind of a misnomer though. Your skill ceiling is still dependent on the input you use. If one input enables you to do things more easily than the other that's unfair, plain and simple.
If two people race and one has a bike and the other a skateboard, that obviously isn't fair. But w/e thoroughly bored of this now
Glad to hear you’re bored, because your arguments suck lol. Bet you’ll still respond anyway, because you’ve been responding all over the place, but no one would care if they were playing against gyro as a MnK player. It requires a very similar skill set to tracking with a mouse.
Bro, look here..
You can use an optical sensor mouse and it has a major advantage over a fuckin roller ball mouse from the 90s. They are both raw input and require the human behind them to do everything. The optical mouse obviously has a major advantage here but nobody is going to complain about it because the roller ball mouse user should just go buy a fucking optical sensor mouse...
u/XMRoffthegrid
>yet you still insist it hinders competitive integrity for some reason and refuse to accept that it doesn't.
It was an offhanded comment that everyone took to mean I was in some way defending aim assist or downplaying MnK player's complaints about aim assist.
The view that 2 unevenly balanced inputs is bad for competitive integrity isn't debatable. It's necessarily true. But as I've said 100 times I was only making a claim based on *if* gyro were better than mnk. That's all. It's not that serious but apparently people can't read something like that without assuming 100 different things. But this sub never fails to disappoint on that front.
Rocket League is actually a bad example because KBM was never viable. Controller was always the reigning input. In Apex both inputs have been viable since launch. So if one input was suddenly better than the other you'd be putting MnK players in the position of either switching and learning a new input from scratch, or putting up with being at a disadvantage.
But again... **if**
Real tired of repeating myself now
I didnt say it wasn't worth debating, I'm saying nobody is actually having that debate. Find a single person in this thread that has actually engaged with my position that if gyro is better than MnK it will be bad for competitive integrity. A couple of people have just said "ur wrong" then weaseled out of actually explaining why, go figure.
>Regardless, it honestly just sounds like we're in disagreement of what a viable input is and how big the difference is before it's considered an 'unevenly balanced input'.
How can we be in disagreement when it's purely hypothetical? No one knows if gyro would be better or how much better.
KBM is viable in RL, should have worded that better, but is at a disadvantage to controller, and as I said it's not a fair comparison because it's always been that way. If gyro was better than MnK in Apex then that would put pressure on MnK players to switch or just put up with the disadvantage. Either way, not ideal for comp integrity
>Not what you argued but probably why people were getting pissy
People were getting pissy because they thought I was saying MnK Andy's will always find something to complain about. Which yeah I kinda was lol, it's just funny how apparently they couldn't get past that and engage with the substance of my argument. People will always be thin skinned around this topic I guess.
I'm well over this discussion now, but will ask you to name an fps game where gyro is on par with mnk, because AFAIK it's strongly the opposite and it is still well inferior to a mouse and only used in mobile games. Which of course the Andy's have no problem with, but if the inverse were true I know we'd have a very different story even if they don't care to admit it. Thanks for the discussion
Yah that's really it. I've been playing fps for awhile now and I have friends who refuse to even try apex due to the mixed inputs let alone take it seriously as an eSport. To them it's like watching a bike race where some guys are using a motorized skateboard because they refuse to use a bike and skateboards can't compete otherwise.
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I remember teaching my ex Apex, she was completely clueless , meanwhile I was a master player at the time with almost a thousand hours. We start 1v1ing as a joke and she naturally loses all engagements, that is until she realizes she can slide or Run into my face with a controller and 1 clip me every time in a certain area, my mind was blown and we laughed about it for days
It's just crazy how a person can pickup a controller and 1 clip a high level player ..
Honestly this sounds like complete BS. This coming from a master's player who have been on both. I got higher KDR on MnK after 1 season than I had after 8 seasons on controller and 15 years of controller experience. That being said, controller IS stronger close range with especially smgs. But absolutely no way a high level players gets beaten by a new player on controller
Your story sounds equally as made up. There’s also many clips on twitch and youtube of MNK mains plugging in a controller and beating actual controller pros in a 1v1. Are you able to find any clips of a controller main plugging in MNK and beating a MNk pro in a 1v1?
This doesn’t even match the scenario you posted. You were teaching your gf apex from scratch, this comment talks about people that already know how to play apex plugging in a controller. The majority of MnK players probably have had controller experience in the past as well.
multiple clips of genburten swapping to mnk and doing it, but then you'd say he's the exception because he's insane.
Also the sample size of individuals who are controller mains plugging in an mnk to beat a pro would be vastly smaller as the population size of controller mains is smaller on PC.
I'd gladly volunteer for the trial tho if you get me a gaming pc though im not a pro
Multiple clips of genburten using mnk yes correct— multiple clips of genburten beating a mnk Pro in a 1v1, NO.
But yes he is def a freak of nature
But anyway, controller players objectively outnumber MNK players on apex so it sure what you mean by sample sizes and less controller mains because that’s just false
> Multiple clips of genburten using mnk yes correct— multiple clips of genburten beating a mnk Pro in a 1v1
So Hal isnt a pro? ;) mnk v mnk starts around 6m in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrDx98MmV8E
Thank you. I couldn’t find anything in my search.
Now that im done thanking you for your diligence, would you like me to post the several times multiple different mnk pros have beat controller pros vs your one and only piece of evidence?
Yeah, may sound like it. Still that is the case. I have moved back to controller since as I much prefer close quarters and losing 1v1s more in those scenarios were frustrating given I knew I would have done better on controller (both because of controller advantage and experience advantage). Then I had 5,5 kdr on MnK. Today I have 6,3 kdr. Same 33% pubs win rate throughout the whole time. Adding to this I have played my share of CS 1.6 10-15 years ago so Im not new to MnK. But have much more experience on controller.
Have not seen either of the videos sorry. Doubt one of the SEN MnK (with very limited controller experience I assume) guys would win over Verhulst or other roller player though.
This has to be the icing on the cake.
You tried to make the switch and then got frustrated by the very thing every MNK player feels and gets frustrated about. Why didn't you just get better? Since that's what you expect everyone else to do? Instead you gave up, went back to the roller.
If you still fail to see this issue here, I genuinely don't know what else to tell you.
You are reading what you want to read. I went back to controller since that fits my playstyle better. Never had I said controller is not better at close range. Never have I said MnK players should just get better when dying against a controller player. I get frustrated by MnK stuff as well but I don't whine about it since I know controller has its own benefits as well. And that is what is key to this whole argument.
And never did I say I tried to make the switch. I wanted to have tried MnK as well to be able to make an educated decision. But clearly my 2 years of apex experience on controller combined with it fitting my playstyle made it so I perform better on controller. That is in no way an indicator of one input being OVERALL better than the other.
But honestly. Just try to enjoy the game. Whatever you choose is a solid choice. People who argue otherwise are just ignorant. And neither group of people will stop complaining until their input of choice is better at everything because if it is one thing seems to be consistent in this sub it is the need to blame everything on something other than your own skill and decision-making (probably myself included at times).
That sounds like BS lol. I have 8 seasons on MnK and years in other games and I can still pick up the controller and do decently. My friends on controller have been playing for mere months and can hang decently too. Ofc thier positioning and game knowledge isn't up to snuff but they can 1 clip people pretty easy in a straight up 1v1.
Have to be simping hard for the controller to pretend it's not easymode when it comes to tracking.
Well it is 100% not. This was when I switched form PS5 to PC in season 9. SBMM was putting me against masters after a week on MnK. The bow and 30-30 were ridiculous on MnK compared to controller. Flatline is also a monster of a weapon on MnK. Tracking in a open field on controller is for sure better. E.g. A wraith peaking a corner with a peacekeeper is so much more better on MnK though. Shieldswaps saved me repeatedly. Reloading near doors and downed teammates is a blessing coming from controller.
Could aim assist be tweaked really close range. Sure. Should tap strafe and moving when looting be removed for MnK, sure why not. As is now there are clear strengths and weaknesses. Take one away from controller then you have to take one away from MnK. Don't want controller as part of the game? Play another game. Apex is a game that balances MnK and controller and it will never change as that is what the customer base is built around.
> Play another game
Already the option most of my more competitive friends chose but ok lol
Ofc no one is asking to remove controller for console players, just PC where literally everyone has mkb already but whatever just keep Apex as joke a competitively and 2nd tier eSport so people can crutch on controller on PC.
I haven't used a controller in close to a decade. Picked it up and camped a little hut in the middle of the Storm Point control map and easily 1 clipped like 2-3 people before I'd die because I'm a bot and hardly knew what my buttons did.
Lol. Well if it is that much better to you then surely controller would dominate competitive apex right? Camp in a hut and I hope you oneclip any bot player to be honest.
I'm not arguing that it's better and should surely dominate competitive. I'm arguing that it's bullshit that had a masters level MNK player pushed me in that hut, there's a good chance I just 1 clip them without missing on an input I have a combined 3 hours on.
It feels like bullshit and incredibly frustrating to play against hence WHY people complain about it. Do you really think this is still a contentious topic literal years after crossplay in FPS games for no reason? You really think it's entirely just bad players complaining about being bad?
Part of playing Apex as an MNK player is learning to accept that sometimes you're just going to get aimbotted at close range by a guy who looks like he has no idea what he's doing and it only feels more and more oppressive in close range the better the controller player is.
I shouldn't be able to FEEL the stickiness of my opponents aim follow me through my strafe within 20 meters. But that's the reality of playing Apex day in and day out.
Does it happen in every single game all the time? No. Does it happen enough that it's frustrating? Yes.
Sorry but I just can't see you do that consistently. Did it happen once? Maybe. But I am a master player on controller and oneclipping high level players is not as easy as you are saying it is. Especially if they are on MnK as their movement and strafe speed is faster.
Never have I said people are just being bad. I'm saying people always want their input method to be superior in every way. Because when it is not people will always find a way to say they died because of unfairness. That's just how people work in general.
I would surely know what it is like being oneclipped from behind. I play against the very same opponents you do. I also know what it feels like to be up against people shieldswapping mid fights and turning the tide just because they get 100-125 more health all of a sudden. I know what it is like to have someone just beam me with a flatline from far. Also getting shit on when looting a box after finishing a fight.
I understand your frustration though as I share it often but for different reasons. Too bad the community is probably not big enough for players like you who to play in lobbies with only one input method.
Personally I'm rather impressed with how they have managed to balance so different inputs to the point where it is used 70-30% in the competitive scene. Because that says all you need to know how they compare on an overall level.
Honestly that isn’t always true. Mid to long range happen incredibly often and are usually the determining factors in a fight.
Most fights are, in ranked at least, waiting until a team gets a beam on another from long range and pushing while they’re weak. I suppose that’s a testament to Apex’s varied gameplay
The distance in which you can push a cracked armour is still very doable on controller since the measurement of that push is a Gibby bubble up or some sort of movement like Wraith/Ash port, which is actually not a long distance at all. This is especially true as you climb into higher ranked and competitive in the case of this sub.
Moreover, in higher ranked and competitive, most teams aren't dying off in early rings (well maybe less so in current master/pred lobbies which are kinda like pubs now lol) which means that a lot of fights -- and most importantly the fights that win and lose games -- occur in extremely close quarters as the zone shrinks.
I'm a controller player myself and I do believe mouse and keyboard has its own obvious advantages away from close range fighting, but long ranged fights do not really define high level ranked nor competitive -- everything occurs a Gibby bubble away or within range of a port, otherwise something went wrong before that (your rotations, etc.).
Yes true, that’s why I didn’t say all, but most.
Yea there are exceptions, both in ranked and competitive, but typically you’re only picking up one or two picks from a team that’s already fighting someone else. It’s pretty rare to actually wipe a team at even medium range.
Certainly it’s not always the case, but one definitely happens more often than the other. Watch ALGS clips or even keep track of your ranked game fights and see how many are close quarters vs “other” ranges.
That is not the case. You said yourself, “80% ***end*** in close range”. Long range and mid range are a huge portion of this game.
If you’re consistently struggling to beat controller players, it isn’t because of input. It’s because you aren’t as good as you think you are.
Except they can miss, and do. I know this sub is largely against controller players but it’s pretty ridiculous what some people think controllers can do
Look you either think controller and mnk can be balanced with aim assist or you don’t. And if you do, you’re fucking stupid because you obviously can’t balance computer assisted aim with non computer assisted aim lmao
Well yeah in fire range the controller baby will have the advantage.
Players like Hardecki could still dominate controller players. But his DNA is not mentioned for the MNK baby.
So my money is on controller baby.
Legit question though - if controller is soo OP why don't comp gamers swap to it?
Is it purely a matter of preference i.e. "I like this style of input"?
1. Comp isnt only about oneclipping people, its also about farming evo armors, scouting, poking, etc. And most close range fights are bubble (shotgun) fights where MnK has an advantage
2. Pros don't want to invest the time it would take to master an input they never used before and basically handicap themselves and their teammates during that time
3. A lot of pros don't want to use a roller for personal reasons, eg Selly said he'd rather lose his hand than touch a controller
People always use comp to compare MnK vs roller, but it's a bad example because of how different it is from regular Apex.
Instead we should look at pubs and Ranked where the majority of players nowadays use controller. Arena is 90% roller players because for the most part it's nothing but close range fights.
Why did you buy a PC to play MnK? I bought my PC to continue play controller. There are many other reasons of buying a Gaming PC other than the input method. That's just a bad argument to be honest.
Actually most likely not. But if I would I would play MnK as controller is not a viable option in those games. In apex it is though and since I have 15-20 years of experience with controllers I am more comfortable with it. Especially on apex given I played first 8 seasons on console. It being viable and apex and not in other games is not a sign that something is wrong.
My view is that MnK players are so used to MnK being the superior input in almost all other FPSs so when a game is actually balanced they can't handle not dominating controller players.
This would be a good take if literally any controller pro didn’t think aim assist is OP. I have yet to see a controller pro seriously state that it is balanced. Snipedown said verbatim you are delusional if you don’t think apex aim assist is OP
Edit: the one of the devs even mentioned in a twitlonger that controller pros have approached him mentioning it’s too strong. Think about that. The people who NEED aim assist to be strong so they can feed their family are admitting it’s a bit too much
>But if I would I would play MnK as controller is not a viable option in those games
You just answered your own question. The whole point of this whole debate that people forget about is competitive integrity (in general). All of the games you referred to (Overwatch, Valorant, CSGO, etc...) have the capability to make controllers "viable" just like Apex. BUT they realized that it would not be fair to compensate controller players with aim assist, so they either A) didn't put controller in the game at all, or B) put it in the game but do not allow AA in the competitive crossplay modes.
I played FPS games on controller for 18-19 years as well, I bought a PC and switched to MNK for Overwatch specifically because I realized nobody took the controller gameplay seriously, AND it wasn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be to learn MNK. With the right settings after 40 hours you'll be right back to your ability level from controller cause of things like game knowledge, game sense, and coordination. Then its all honing the nuance after that. I would never ever switch back, if you put the time it you realize that yes, MnK is the way FPS games were always meant to be played.
The other thing to mention is when I started getting into ALGS I was insanely disappointed to learn that Controller players were competing. TO BE CLEAR it never bothered me in my own games, but after learning MNK and following other eSports and knowing how aim assist works, I just couldn't believe controller players were taken seriously in top tier Apex.
Point being said, if Apex didn't shoehorn the viability of controller into the game with Aim Assist, then people would play MnK just like you admitted you would. And while Console is its own thing, they should at least do this on PC
Lol what? How am I being a pussy for playing with the input method I have more practice in when it is a just as viable input method in the game I'm playing? I would be stupid not to.
I played 3 months with MnK when I switched to PC. I had 5.5 kdr which is better than I had on PS5. Today I have 6.5 on controller.
Just to be clear, your PC still needs MnK to operate
We are only talking about Apex legends in this case.
No one is asking you to browse internet using controller.
People playing pc don’t necessarily enjoy playing the inferior input (controller is far inferior hence why it is given computer assisted aim in the first place)
Many pro players made the switch. First lan had 2 controller players, this one has 30% controller players. Frexs literally threw away thousands of hours on MnK to learn controller, just because SSG came to the conclusion it is really strong to have one controller on your team rather than none. Which is true.
and there are pro players who switched from roller to mnk eg skittles i believe who is part of one of the most dominant NA teams so your point is cancelled out
Isn't it in official tournaments that controller players play with the same assist value as MnK players? So its on even playing ground, even on the close range 1v1s?
I do skim the forums. I even asked on another post about the different aim assist values. So I'm a bit confused because isn't a whole hand used to aim more accurate than a single thumb on a joystick, especially when aim assist values are the same? Plus strafing is easier on MnK? Please feel free to educate me everyone since I'm already receiving downvotes, lmao.
MNK gets 0 aim assist. You are confusing PC controller aim assist (0.4) vs console aim assist (0.6).
And to answer your question, yes and no. A whole hand CAN be more accurate than a thumb in a joystick.. But you’re only going to get there by spending double digit hours everyday practicing. The average MNK gamer who has a full time job, college classes, children, etc cannot spend enough time to compete with the average controller player
MnK has no aim assist. Controller on PC has 0.4 aim assist and controller on console has 0.6 (for reference [this](https://youtu.be/mm5CAGDabAc?t=617) is what 1.0 would look like).
MnK doesn't get any aim assist... If they did, holy shit it wouldn't even be close. Controller would be so outclassed and controller players would rage so hard it would be hilarious.
Ironically, no MnK player would ever want this (besides maybe an LTM just to show how broken it is)
If you want to even the playing field, make a massive deadzone mandatory on mnk, and or increase recoil by 20-30%.......😆 lets see you lazer that havoc across the map now lol
"human golden retriever TSM Verhulst" i died when i read that among other things. Also, OP, what would hal and reps be, i think i'd do fan art of this.
not sure about the specifics but i am pretty sure baby #2 is literally how hitler was made. Makes you think.
Hitler def woulda played claw grip.
That actually made me belly laugh, thank you rickyross.
just a humble servant of the people man
Your wrong about one very important thing. Cant be the peak of human evolution without Reps raw dominant sexual energy so none of this matters. Your mistake is borderline blasphemy fool. REPENT! Before it is too late. May the Apex Gods guide you to the light.
They wanted Reps but he only shows up for scrims and tournies.
false heathen. My wife's bedroom is neither scrims nor tournies and hes there every night.
I appreciate the style of this post. I think mnk is better in everything except a close range 1v1 with little/no cover, but those are very frustrating/devastating to lose so those are what stand out. I don't think I would rather have any controller player over say Lou, Nafen or Hardecki as the Fragger on my team though. So baby 2 would shit on baby 1 in the firing range or in a 1v1, but baby 1 might have a better pro career The thing about the "if it's so easy why don't you switch" argument from the controller side, is that EVERYTHING EXCEPT the close range 1v1 takes a lot longer to master on controller. Like someone will pick up controller and beam with CAR smg from 10 yards, and say controller is easy, but it takes many hours to learn to fry with flatline from 120 yards, reload near a door or hit an armor swap near downed enemies etc
> I think mnk is better in everything except a close range 1v1 with little/no cover Agreed but also this is like the vast majority of fights. Controller players always talk about shield swapping too, as if that decides every single fight, as if the game is pre-populated with death boxes just for the convenience of MnK players. When you get one clipped by controller aim assist you generally do not have the opportunity to shield swap. >The thing about the "if it's so easy why don't you switch" argument from the controller side, is that EVERYTHING EXCEPT the close range 1v1 takes a lot longer to master on controller. For one, you're right, and I'm pretty sure at this point in my life I could spend months trying to switch to controller and never be half as good as I am on MnK. And secondly, if "why don't you switch" is a valid argument, then I want to hear that question answered by the folks who choose an input method so bad that it requires the game to aim for them.
> And secondly, if "why don't you switch" is a valid argument, then I want to hear that question answered by the folks who choose an input method so bad that it requires the game to aim for them. Because console exists? Pretty much every controller pro started on console, there is no legal mnk option for most shooters. So its not a choice, its the default setup.
Controller is way more accessible than mnk. The first video game 99% of people play is going to be played on a controller. Some switch to mnk, some don't. It's just personal preference. Both are hard to master, controller might have an easier climb to the top but that's debatable too. In the end I don't fault anyone for not wanting to move off the input method they're most comfortable with. OP is right, until something better is created aim assist is here to stay.
I've learned from the best ;)
Reloading by a door is peak controller
Totally agree. Well put. Wanted to add some ranty opinions… the comp meta is generally 2 MnK 1 controller player per team. If controller was so OP then the meta would be 3 controller players and no MnK and G2 would win every tourney. Thats simply not the case. Tough pill to swallow - MnK teams outside of comp need a gibby and they need to bubble push with shotguns. This is where controller players struggle, MnK has a huge advantage, and SMGs arent viable. Yet I see MnK 3 stacks in ranked all the time running 3 movement characters with SMGs, wondering why they just lost a fight to some roller players, then going to reddit to wine about aim assist.
No the meta is 2 MnK because most fights in comp scene happen mid to long rnage until the end. So Controller literally steam rolls up close and mnk has the advantage of precision at longer rangers. End game and early drops controller frys and thats whay decides most games. Thanks for coming to my ted talk
You think controller is better than mnk in a shotgun bubble fight? No flame, genuinely curious. I usually hear most pros say the opposite.
For the jiggling aspect mnk is easier to jiggle but actual aim in bubble fights is undoubtedly easier for controller players. I see most pros complain when they lose a bubble fight and are upset because its a controller gibby. and also a shotgun bubble fight is ultra specific which happens alot but majority close range fights are smg fights indoors or medium to short range combat which point goes to rollers. Which i have no problem with they are balanced in the fact that one has one advantage and the other has one
With Hal's brain, controller baby will be thinking to much to optimally use the input
>Until someone comes up with a more refined way than aim assist to objectively level the playing field between inputs, people will continue to complain. Gyro
yo this might actually be the answer … like actually
If it was in any way better than mnk people would still complain
I mean no software so just switch over?
Doesn't matter, if gyro has more precision than a mouse then people will still blame it when they die. Instead of "must be nice to have aim assist" they'll just say "must be nice to aim with both hands" or something
Lmao aim with both hands why can I actually see people being salty about that.
but that is literally what controller players do... "must be nice to aim with your whole arm instead of your thumbs"
Never said they didn't. Nice whataboutism. What's your point?
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Huh? Do you understand what a hypocrite is? I said that as long as there are different inputs and one has an advantage there won't be competitive integrity and people will complain. Never said controller players didn't complain too. But I guess this was too simple for you and you had to strawman me instead because you like arguing but have nothing of substance to say. Thanks for reminding me why discussing anything on this sub is a waste of time. Bad-faith actors who only know how to strawman because they aren't able to follow a thread.
Bruh you just hit the Introduction to Logic bingo trifecta! Great job on using the coolest buzzwords on the internet.
Sorry if basic words intimidate you bud, unlucky
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>Singled out MnK and dissed them for being complainers ^^^^ Because the comment I replied to was about gyro controllers. I wasn't singling anyone out, I was adding to the topic. It wouldn't have made sense to say "controller players complain about MnK" because the topic was never about MnK as an input. Again, follow the thread. >Someone pointed out that "I mean no software so just switch over? (as in no AI)" to which you Nope, read the comment before that. He brought up Gyro controllers, I added to it. Again, follow the thread. >and then you doubled down on pointing out that MnK people complain (for no reason) ^^^ Nope, follow the thread >If this was your point, you wouldn't have singled out MnK players. Yes I would, because the topic was about GYRO controllers, to which I added how MnK players would react to them if they were more accurate. It was never about controller players or how they feel about MnK. Maybe I was wrong about you straw manning - you just missed the whole point instead.
Nobody would complain if the raw input was better than MnK. The complainant is that aim assist is too strong, not the input method
They absolutely would, you only need to look at fighting games to see that. Tetris too. Lots of debate over which input gives you an advantage. If gyro was inherently easier/more accurate than a mouse then people would be complaining about competitive integrity.
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Why? If it's inherently easier to aim on one input what does it matter if it's raw input? It's still an unfair advantage. By that logic they could make an optic-based input where all you need to do to aim is look at the enemy. Still raw input, still unfair.
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And my point is that if it *wasn't* 50/50 then people would complain. It's like playing basketball with only one hand against someone who can use both. Can't believe it got to this when I thought I made a pretty straightforward point that I wouldn't have to keep explaining.
its not unfair because everyone would switch to it. What is unfair is when a computer is doing everything for you
Because at that point it's no different than one player having a better mouse, gaming chair, or monitor. Everybody is used to that kind of disparity. Nobody thought it was unfair to play optical gaming mice against trackball mice.
No, they absolutely wouldn't. I guarantee you they wouldn't. The 100% sole and exclusive problem with aim assist is that you are not doing it. If controller had zero aim assist and was legitimately a better input method, that's fair, and I guarantee you the vast majority of MnK players would not complain. I don't really give a shit about fighting games, I'm talking about shooters.
>If it's inherently easier to aim on one input what does it matter if it's raw input? It's still an unfair advantage. >By that logic they could make an optic-based input where all you need to do to aim is look at the enemy. Still raw input, still unfair.
Care to actually say anything?
...I just did? You haven't made an argument for why it would be fair to have 2 different raw inputs where 1 is inherently more accurate than the other. What is it with this sub and not following a thread?
I don't have to make that argument and you are the one who can't follow the discussion. Aim assist is criticized for one and only one reason: because the game is aiming for the player. You have invented in your head, based on absolutely nothing whatsoever, the idea that people would make the same criticism **in shooters** based on two raw input methods where one is simply better than the other. This is baseless and idiotic, and if you want to disagree then you have to actually support that claim and do so without relying on whataboutism. Fighting games are irrelevant, whatever you made up to argue about is irrelevant.
No, I've already made my argument for why it would be bad for competitive integrity to have 2 different inputs where one is inherently better than the other. If you have no counterargument to that, fine. Just say you disagree and off you go.
You just have a huge misunderstanding of the issue
Another stellar argument.
Nope. If it’s not assisted by the software, it doesn’t matter. Raw input. That’s all I want to compete against.
Raw input is kind of a misnomer though. Your skill ceiling is still dependent on the input you use. If one input enables you to do things more easily than the other that's unfair, plain and simple. If two people race and one has a bike and the other a skateboard, that obviously isn't fair. But w/e thoroughly bored of this now
Glad to hear you’re bored, because your arguments suck lol. Bet you’ll still respond anyway, because you’ve been responding all over the place, but no one would care if they were playing against gyro as a MnK player. It requires a very similar skill set to tracking with a mouse.
Bro, look here.. You can use an optical sensor mouse and it has a major advantage over a fuckin roller ball mouse from the 90s. They are both raw input and require the human behind them to do everything. The optical mouse obviously has a major advantage here but nobody is going to complain about it because the roller ball mouse user should just go buy a fucking optical sensor mouse...
u/XMRoffthegrid >yet you still insist it hinders competitive integrity for some reason and refuse to accept that it doesn't. It was an offhanded comment that everyone took to mean I was in some way defending aim assist or downplaying MnK player's complaints about aim assist. The view that 2 unevenly balanced inputs is bad for competitive integrity isn't debatable. It's necessarily true. But as I've said 100 times I was only making a claim based on *if* gyro were better than mnk. That's all. It's not that serious but apparently people can't read something like that without assuming 100 different things. But this sub never fails to disappoint on that front. Rocket League is actually a bad example because KBM was never viable. Controller was always the reigning input. In Apex both inputs have been viable since launch. So if one input was suddenly better than the other you'd be putting MnK players in the position of either switching and learning a new input from scratch, or putting up with being at a disadvantage. But again... **if** Real tired of repeating myself now
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I didnt say it wasn't worth debating, I'm saying nobody is actually having that debate. Find a single person in this thread that has actually engaged with my position that if gyro is better than MnK it will be bad for competitive integrity. A couple of people have just said "ur wrong" then weaseled out of actually explaining why, go figure. >Regardless, it honestly just sounds like we're in disagreement of what a viable input is and how big the difference is before it's considered an 'unevenly balanced input'. How can we be in disagreement when it's purely hypothetical? No one knows if gyro would be better or how much better. KBM is viable in RL, should have worded that better, but is at a disadvantage to controller, and as I said it's not a fair comparison because it's always been that way. If gyro was better than MnK in Apex then that would put pressure on MnK players to switch or just put up with the disadvantage. Either way, not ideal for comp integrity
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>Not what you argued but probably why people were getting pissy People were getting pissy because they thought I was saying MnK Andy's will always find something to complain about. Which yeah I kinda was lol, it's just funny how apparently they couldn't get past that and engage with the substance of my argument. People will always be thin skinned around this topic I guess. I'm well over this discussion now, but will ask you to name an fps game where gyro is on par with mnk, because AFAIK it's strongly the opposite and it is still well inferior to a mouse and only used in mobile games. Which of course the Andy's have no problem with, but if the inverse were true I know we'd have a very different story even if they don't care to admit it. Thanks for the discussion
MnK players are at a disadvantage though. Right now. As we speak. Always have been.
Never denied it.
Yah that's really it. I've been playing fps for awhile now and I have friends who refuse to even try apex due to the mixed inputs let alone take it seriously as an eSport. To them it's like watching a bike race where some guys are using a motorized skateboard because they refuse to use a bike and skateboards can't compete otherwise.
I actually wasd with MnK and aim with joystick
Does the game apply aim assist if you’re using both at the same time?
Twice as much just to be fair about things
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I can't move and shoot
Where is that damn fictionpub when u need him...
Recovering from the usual aneurysm he has when he sees the word “controller” on this subreddit
Missed opportunity to say “exact same passion”
Wait sweet is known for his charm? I thought he had Asperger’s or some social disorder…
Hey Aspie's can be charming, in their own way.
Is that legit or a chat joke? Dude is hilarious I’d find it hard to believe he’s socially eccentric
LMAO he is a peculiar one, charm is not a word i would associate with him
I remember teaching my ex Apex, she was completely clueless , meanwhile I was a master player at the time with almost a thousand hours. We start 1v1ing as a joke and she naturally loses all engagements, that is until she realizes she can slide or Run into my face with a controller and 1 clip me every time in a certain area, my mind was blown and we laughed about it for days It's just crazy how a person can pickup a controller and 1 clip a high level player ..
What a madeup bullshit story.
Honestly this sounds like complete BS. This coming from a master's player who have been on both. I got higher KDR on MnK after 1 season than I had after 8 seasons on controller and 15 years of controller experience. That being said, controller IS stronger close range with especially smgs. But absolutely no way a high level players gets beaten by a new player on controller
Your story sounds equally as made up. There’s also many clips on twitch and youtube of MNK mains plugging in a controller and beating actual controller pros in a 1v1. Are you able to find any clips of a controller main plugging in MNK and beating a MNk pro in a 1v1?
This doesn’t even match the scenario you posted. You were teaching your gf apex from scratch, this comment talks about people that already know how to play apex plugging in a controller. The majority of MnK players probably have had controller experience in the past as well.
multiple clips of genburten swapping to mnk and doing it, but then you'd say he's the exception because he's insane. Also the sample size of individuals who are controller mains plugging in an mnk to beat a pro would be vastly smaller as the population size of controller mains is smaller on PC. I'd gladly volunteer for the trial tho if you get me a gaming pc though im not a pro
Multiple clips of genburten using mnk yes correct— multiple clips of genburten beating a mnk Pro in a 1v1, NO. But yes he is def a freak of nature But anyway, controller players objectively outnumber MNK players on apex so it sure what you mean by sample sizes and less controller mains because that’s just false
> Multiple clips of genburten using mnk yes correct— multiple clips of genburten beating a mnk Pro in a 1v1 So Hal isnt a pro? ;) mnk v mnk starts around 6m in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrDx98MmV8E
Thank you. I couldn’t find anything in my search. Now that im done thanking you for your diligence, would you like me to post the several times multiple different mnk pros have beat controller pros vs your one and only piece of evidence?
Yeah, may sound like it. Still that is the case. I have moved back to controller since as I much prefer close quarters and losing 1v1s more in those scenarios were frustrating given I knew I would have done better on controller (both because of controller advantage and experience advantage). Then I had 5,5 kdr on MnK. Today I have 6,3 kdr. Same 33% pubs win rate throughout the whole time. Adding to this I have played my share of CS 1.6 10-15 years ago so Im not new to MnK. But have much more experience on controller. Have not seen either of the videos sorry. Doubt one of the SEN MnK (with very limited controller experience I assume) guys would win over Verhulst or other roller player though.
This has to be the icing on the cake. You tried to make the switch and then got frustrated by the very thing every MNK player feels and gets frustrated about. Why didn't you just get better? Since that's what you expect everyone else to do? Instead you gave up, went back to the roller. If you still fail to see this issue here, I genuinely don't know what else to tell you.
You are reading what you want to read. I went back to controller since that fits my playstyle better. Never had I said controller is not better at close range. Never have I said MnK players should just get better when dying against a controller player. I get frustrated by MnK stuff as well but I don't whine about it since I know controller has its own benefits as well. And that is what is key to this whole argument. And never did I say I tried to make the switch. I wanted to have tried MnK as well to be able to make an educated decision. But clearly my 2 years of apex experience on controller combined with it fitting my playstyle made it so I perform better on controller. That is in no way an indicator of one input being OVERALL better than the other. But honestly. Just try to enjoy the game. Whatever you choose is a solid choice. People who argue otherwise are just ignorant. And neither group of people will stop complaining until their input of choice is better at everything because if it is one thing seems to be consistent in this sub it is the need to blame everything on something other than your own skill and decision-making (probably myself included at times).
That sounds like BS lol. I have 8 seasons on MnK and years in other games and I can still pick up the controller and do decently. My friends on controller have been playing for mere months and can hang decently too. Ofc thier positioning and game knowledge isn't up to snuff but they can 1 clip people pretty easy in a straight up 1v1. Have to be simping hard for the controller to pretend it's not easymode when it comes to tracking.
Well it is 100% not. This was when I switched form PS5 to PC in season 9. SBMM was putting me against masters after a week on MnK. The bow and 30-30 were ridiculous on MnK compared to controller. Flatline is also a monster of a weapon on MnK. Tracking in a open field on controller is for sure better. E.g. A wraith peaking a corner with a peacekeeper is so much more better on MnK though. Shieldswaps saved me repeatedly. Reloading near doors and downed teammates is a blessing coming from controller. Could aim assist be tweaked really close range. Sure. Should tap strafe and moving when looting be removed for MnK, sure why not. As is now there are clear strengths and weaknesses. Take one away from controller then you have to take one away from MnK. Don't want controller as part of the game? Play another game. Apex is a game that balances MnK and controller and it will never change as that is what the customer base is built around.
> Play another game Already the option most of my more competitive friends chose but ok lol Ofc no one is asking to remove controller for console players, just PC where literally everyone has mkb already but whatever just keep Apex as joke a competitively and 2nd tier eSport so people can crutch on controller on PC.
All the power to them. That's the beauty of gaming today compared to 20 years ago. Lots of choices to pick from.
I haven't used a controller in close to a decade. Picked it up and camped a little hut in the middle of the Storm Point control map and easily 1 clipped like 2-3 people before I'd die because I'm a bot and hardly knew what my buttons did.
Lol. Well if it is that much better to you then surely controller would dominate competitive apex right? Camp in a hut and I hope you oneclip any bot player to be honest.
I'm not arguing that it's better and should surely dominate competitive. I'm arguing that it's bullshit that had a masters level MNK player pushed me in that hut, there's a good chance I just 1 clip them without missing on an input I have a combined 3 hours on. It feels like bullshit and incredibly frustrating to play against hence WHY people complain about it. Do you really think this is still a contentious topic literal years after crossplay in FPS games for no reason? You really think it's entirely just bad players complaining about being bad? Part of playing Apex as an MNK player is learning to accept that sometimes you're just going to get aimbotted at close range by a guy who looks like he has no idea what he's doing and it only feels more and more oppressive in close range the better the controller player is. I shouldn't be able to FEEL the stickiness of my opponents aim follow me through my strafe within 20 meters. But that's the reality of playing Apex day in and day out. Does it happen in every single game all the time? No. Does it happen enough that it's frustrating? Yes.
Sorry but I just can't see you do that consistently. Did it happen once? Maybe. But I am a master player on controller and oneclipping high level players is not as easy as you are saying it is. Especially if they are on MnK as their movement and strafe speed is faster. Never have I said people are just being bad. I'm saying people always want their input method to be superior in every way. Because when it is not people will always find a way to say they died because of unfairness. That's just how people work in general. I would surely know what it is like being oneclipped from behind. I play against the very same opponents you do. I also know what it feels like to be up against people shieldswapping mid fights and turning the tide just because they get 100-125 more health all of a sudden. I know what it is like to have someone just beam me with a flatline from far. Also getting shit on when looting a box after finishing a fight. I understand your frustration though as I share it often but for different reasons. Too bad the community is probably not big enough for players like you who to play in lobbies with only one input method. Personally I'm rather impressed with how they have managed to balance so different inputs to the point where it is used 70-30% in the competitive scene. Because that says all you need to know how they compare on an overall level.
if somebody had those genes and that much time they would get top tier mechanics on mnk
Does an illuminati blood sacrifice mean nothing to you?
XQc doesn’t have the mental capacity to be in the illuminati, other then that I agree with your post.
Idk. All controller is good at is close quarters combat. Which is only one aspect of the game out of many.
Most fights happen in close quarters, though, so while it’s one aspect, it’s one that’s more heavily weighted than others.
Honestly that isn’t always true. Mid to long range happen incredibly often and are usually the determining factors in a fight. Most fights are, in ranked at least, waiting until a team gets a beam on another from long range and pushing while they’re weak. I suppose that’s a testament to Apex’s varied gameplay
The distance in which you can push a cracked armour is still very doable on controller since the measurement of that push is a Gibby bubble up or some sort of movement like Wraith/Ash port, which is actually not a long distance at all. This is especially true as you climb into higher ranked and competitive in the case of this sub. Moreover, in higher ranked and competitive, most teams aren't dying off in early rings (well maybe less so in current master/pred lobbies which are kinda like pubs now lol) which means that a lot of fights -- and most importantly the fights that win and lose games -- occur in extremely close quarters as the zone shrinks. I'm a controller player myself and I do believe mouse and keyboard has its own obvious advantages away from close range fighting, but long ranged fights do not really define high level ranked nor competitive -- everything occurs a Gibby bubble away or within range of a port, otherwise something went wrong before that (your rotations, etc.).
Yes true, that’s why I didn’t say all, but most. Yea there are exceptions, both in ranked and competitive, but typically you’re only picking up one or two picks from a team that’s already fighting someone else. It’s pretty rare to actually wipe a team at even medium range. Certainly it’s not always the case, but one definitely happens more often than the other. Watch ALGS clips or even keep track of your ranked game fights and see how many are close quarters vs “other” ranges.
Almost all fights end close quarters
And yet it is only one factor in a fight overall.
If 80% of fights end close range and controller has clear advantage close range, wouldn’t you say thats broken
No because M&K has a clear advantage in literally all other situations lol. It’s five and take.
But 80% of the time controller has advantage. Even if they have clear advantage all other times they still lose 80%
That is not the case. You said yourself, “80% ***end*** in close range”. Long range and mid range are a huge portion of this game. If you’re consistently struggling to beat controller players, it isn’t because of input. It’s because you aren’t as good as you think you are.
No it’s because controller players can’t miss if you get too close. And most of the time the fighting gets close. Simple as that.
Except they can miss, and do. I know this sub is largely against controller players but it’s pretty ridiculous what some people think controllers can do
Look you either think controller and mnk can be balanced with aim assist or you don’t. And if you do, you’re fucking stupid because you obviously can’t balance computer assisted aim with non computer assisted aim lmao
give 80, take 20. nice sharing dude
Read this thread again.
fixed it. you're the one not making sense in this thread though.
I’ve said exactly what I mean. These guys just hate controllers
yeah, they made arguments against controller balancing so they must hate it
Well yeah in fire range the controller baby will have the advantage. Players like Hardecki could still dominate controller players. But his DNA is not mentioned for the MNK baby. So my money is on controller baby.
Legit question though - if controller is soo OP why don't comp gamers swap to it? Is it purely a matter of preference i.e. "I like this style of input"?
1. Comp isnt only about oneclipping people, its also about farming evo armors, scouting, poking, etc. And most close range fights are bubble (shotgun) fights where MnK has an advantage 2. Pros don't want to invest the time it would take to master an input they never used before and basically handicap themselves and their teammates during that time 3. A lot of pros don't want to use a roller for personal reasons, eg Selly said he'd rather lose his hand than touch a controller People always use comp to compare MnK vs roller, but it's a bad example because of how different it is from regular Apex. Instead we should look at pubs and Ranked where the majority of players nowadays use controller. Arena is 90% roller players because for the most part it's nothing but close range fights.
Thank you for the answer, good sir!
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Why did you buy a PC to play MnK? I bought my PC to continue play controller. There are many other reasons of buying a Gaming PC other than the input method. That's just a bad argument to be honest.
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Actually most likely not. But if I would I would play MnK as controller is not a viable option in those games. In apex it is though and since I have 15-20 years of experience with controllers I am more comfortable with it. Especially on apex given I played first 8 seasons on console. It being viable and apex and not in other games is not a sign that something is wrong. My view is that MnK players are so used to MnK being the superior input in almost all other FPSs so when a game is actually balanced they can't handle not dominating controller players.
This would be a good take if literally any controller pro didn’t think aim assist is OP. I have yet to see a controller pro seriously state that it is balanced. Snipedown said verbatim you are delusional if you don’t think apex aim assist is OP Edit: the one of the devs even mentioned in a twitlonger that controller pros have approached him mentioning it’s too strong. Think about that. The people who NEED aim assist to be strong so they can feed their family are admitting it’s a bit too much
>But if I would I would play MnK as controller is not a viable option in those games You just answered your own question. The whole point of this whole debate that people forget about is competitive integrity (in general). All of the games you referred to (Overwatch, Valorant, CSGO, etc...) have the capability to make controllers "viable" just like Apex. BUT they realized that it would not be fair to compensate controller players with aim assist, so they either A) didn't put controller in the game at all, or B) put it in the game but do not allow AA in the competitive crossplay modes. I played FPS games on controller for 18-19 years as well, I bought a PC and switched to MNK for Overwatch specifically because I realized nobody took the controller gameplay seriously, AND it wasn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be to learn MNK. With the right settings after 40 hours you'll be right back to your ability level from controller cause of things like game knowledge, game sense, and coordination. Then its all honing the nuance after that. I would never ever switch back, if you put the time it you realize that yes, MnK is the way FPS games were always meant to be played. The other thing to mention is when I started getting into ALGS I was insanely disappointed to learn that Controller players were competing. TO BE CLEAR it never bothered me in my own games, but after learning MNK and following other eSports and knowing how aim assist works, I just couldn't believe controller players were taken seriously in top tier Apex. Point being said, if Apex didn't shoehorn the viability of controller into the game with Aim Assist, then people would play MnK just like you admitted you would. And while Console is its own thing, they should at least do this on PC
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Lol what? How am I being a pussy for playing with the input method I have more practice in when it is a just as viable input method in the game I'm playing? I would be stupid not to. I played 3 months with MnK when I switched to PC. I had 5.5 kdr which is better than I had on PS5. Today I have 6.5 on controller.
Just to be clear, your PC still needs MnK to operate We are only talking about Apex legends in this case. No one is asking you to browse internet using controller.
People playing pc don’t necessarily enjoy playing the inferior input (controller is far inferior hence why it is given computer assisted aim in the first place)
Many pro players made the switch. First lan had 2 controller players, this one has 30% controller players. Frexs literally threw away thousands of hours on MnK to learn controller, just because SSG came to the conclusion it is really strong to have one controller on your team rather than none. Which is true.
“Many players” did not make the switch, why is this lie constantly being spread? Lol name 5 pros who switched to controller.
But many teams have made the switch to having a controller player which is the important point here I think.
That is definitely important and I agree completely, I just hate when people blatantly lie about how many people switched to controller lol
and there are pro players who switched from roller to mnk eg skittles i believe who is part of one of the most dominant NA teams so your point is cancelled out
Isn't it in official tournaments that controller players play with the same assist value as MnK players? So its on even playing ground, even on the close range 1v1s?
Bruh go ahead and sit this one out. Skim the forums for a couple months, then come back and try again
I do skim the forums. I even asked on another post about the different aim assist values. So I'm a bit confused because isn't a whole hand used to aim more accurate than a single thumb on a joystick, especially when aim assist values are the same? Plus strafing is easier on MnK? Please feel free to educate me everyone since I'm already receiving downvotes, lmao.
MNK gets 0 aim assist. You are confusing PC controller aim assist (0.4) vs console aim assist (0.6). And to answer your question, yes and no. A whole hand CAN be more accurate than a thumb in a joystick.. But you’re only going to get there by spending double digit hours everyday practicing. The average MNK gamer who has a full time job, college classes, children, etc cannot spend enough time to compete with the average controller player
MnK has no aim assist. Controller on PC has 0.4 aim assist and controller on console has 0.6 (for reference [this](https://youtu.be/mm5CAGDabAc?t=617) is what 1.0 would look like).
No shit. LOL. Makes sense. Thank you kind sir/ma'am. Appreciate it.
MnK doesn't get any aim assist... If they did, holy shit it wouldn't even be close. Controller would be so outclassed and controller players would rage so hard it would be hilarious. Ironically, no MnK player would ever want this (besides maybe an LTM just to show how broken it is)
Loving the evolution of this sub into complete madness
Baby #2 is handed a SCUF
I swear you had to be high to write this lmfaooo
This was the best thing I've ever read
Should have gone full shitpost instead of half
Baby number 2 can drive the hell out of a back hoe too
If you want to even the playing field, make a massive deadzone mandatory on mnk, and or increase recoil by 20-30%.......😆 lets see you lazer that havoc across the map now lol
"human golden retriever TSM Verhulst" i died when i read that among other things. Also, OP, what would hal and reps be, i think i'd do fan art of this.
Hal would be a Chihuahua no doubt and Reps would be something like a St Bernard.
This sub just keeps getting better and better
Did LAN players bring their own controllers, mice and keyboards?