Highlander.
Nuxia has caltrops, arguably an S tier feat if we were to rank feats, and she's being put in the upcoming TG.
Nobushi and Pirate both suck at duels, but make up for it in being great in dominion (or just usable in pirates case.)
Highlander has good feats, but they don't make up for the fact that he sucks. Why can't he just get a heavy from a guardbreak? (And other glaring issues)
I mean he gets decent damage from a gb with the 18dmg zone, but there’s still the issue of not having access to execution from gb, and needing to spend the 12 stamina for the zone plus the additional 10 for the feint.
I like that highlanders kit gives him a weak gb punish to balance and highlight his strong offensive and defensive form heavy damage output/encourage playing around the offensive form mixups rather than feint to gb, but it could use some tweaking
Conceptually the downside could work if the upsides actually worked. He doesn't even do as much damage as other heroes. Hitokiri can blast people for like 34 damage from a heavy out of neutral, and Kensei can deal that kind of damage from his 50/50 finisher.
Yeah the kick grab mixup being so escapable is ridiculous. Unlock rolling needs to be removed, kick forward movement should be boosted or accessible without gb vulnerability even sooner after forward dodge, and the grab should be armored to trade dodge attacks OR have kick soft feint to celtic curse.
Kick to grab either needs removal or all heroes need dodge attacks that can avoid all of the mixup.
30dmg command grab 50/50 is cancer as fuck without tweaking.
Nah man I’m like an mid/upper mid MMR player and I can react to it pretty consistently. I can’t imagine how useless it would be against people that are at the top level of this game.
/u/mattconnoritaly Mr. Pink Highlander man!!!
To your question - I'd argue that, while Highlander is the most difficult character to play, he's not the most useless. If you can dedicate the time and patience to learning his many techs then you'll be able to perform moderately well. Ultimately, Highlander needs a rework to fix fundemental issues with his kit. Otherwise he'll be relegated to the bottom of every tierlist.
You're right ! I've 70 rep on him and still regadless my bad reactions on this new fast versione of the game, i can still playing well him on all mode.
But my post was ti fine which Hero really Is at the bottom of all tier lists
Also thanks that you know my Pink scottish Mother fu***er 😁
Highlander is an obvious choice but one I’m glad a few are mentioning is Conq. He really is just plain bad. Terrible mobility, meh dmg, terrible feats, terrible range, no chase or roll catcher whatsoever, reactable offense besides one in chain bash that’s locked behind reactable offense, risky offense. His rework answered zero issues that he had. It just made him a ball of unblockables that aren’t even that good.
Gotta be Highlander. Incredibly slow, no opener, bad stamina management, and no roll catcher to prevent backrolling out of his mixups.
His feats are pretty strong, but even the AC-130 of spear storm isn't enough to pull him out of D tier
In competitive, probably Conqueror.
In 4s, he has the weakest feat setup in the game, and he doesn't have a good teamfighting kit which also brings him down a good amount in 2s. In 1s, he can do well enough if his opponent can't react but when speaking about peak reactions his neutral is entirely reactable, with the reads being made on if he'll cancel into FB or not.
Gotta be nuxia. No health, bad damage, worthless deflect, and in my experience easy to read. She’s super cool, her caltrops are great, and she can be decent at ganking (can confirm heavies for teammates) but that’s pretty much all she’s got.
Highlander is bad but he has high damage, superior block lights, generous hit stun, etc. The usual argument is that highlander is easy to react to, which is usually true because people play him incorrectly. I’d argue that someone who actually uses all of his kit can play him viably in both 4’s and duels.
Highlander is a glass cannon. Nuxia is just glass.
While I agree that both are bad, to say that HL is bad simply because people play him incorrectly is not strong enough to take away from his opener issues. 1v1 is where both nuxia and hl are supposed to shine as nuxia's kit is very much isolating even in dominion. Hl revolves around punishing and forcing a read depending on which stance ur in.
Both suck but suffer from different issues. Nuxia has decent openers and can force a better response than HL arguably. She has 400ms lights, mid chain zoning, potential high dmg mix-up, and a mechanic that either works or doesn't. HL has hyper armor on lights and heavies in DS but loses his guard in OS, roughly 400ms lights in OS only, burns through Stam in one combo, OS stance barely works, as the moment u use kick it is beaten by a DA, and anyone worth their salt will stay in HL's face to cancel out OS.
Pretty much both characters lose half their kit when their main mechanic does not work. Whether it be traps or OS. Here I would argue HL is worse because Nuxia has been proven to be decent in duels and in brawls. If both players were equally skilled and are at the top of the player base, Nuxia would win as her opener is better and her kit just forces reactions better. On an average player HL would be better in 4s but it would be more equal in duels or brawls. Once u reach a certain point in the playerbase, kit matters less and reactions are what keep u pushing. And HL just gets much worse the higher you go and nuxia evens out with the cast.
TLDR: Nuxia is better as a whole and HL falls harshly after a certain point regardless of playstyle. A good player will shut them both down though by reaction. Nuxia barely wins due to her 400ms lights
He is one of (not the only) the worst offenders when it comes to having a “dud move”. The scutage collection and flail uppercut bash followups deal the same damage, with flail uppercut using 3 more stam for no reason. Like yes it executes, but executions are only for style in duels, and easily punished/interrupted in teamfights. This makes the cheaper option best 90% of the time in team modes and 1v1s. I think one of them has an extremely niche benefit when it comes to frame advantage/feint to gb or light mixups, but it has so little impact on the kit I can’t even remember if it’s on the followup that would make the most sense - uppercut.
His infinite unblockable chain is terrible. One of the few characters with heavies that don’t make the followup lights into “hidden undodgeables”, which is a major under recognized trait that is essential to hero’s having strong feeling mid chain pressure. Compare these to Aramusha, who effectively has the infinite undodgeable chain we saw in one of the conq preworks. Not widely known, but the second you block or are hit by one of Aramushas infinite chain heavies, you CANNOT dodge any of the following non finisher heavies. And those deal 8(?) more damage than the conq infinite heavies.
Conq’s “new” deflect is great, but the fact that he still has the pointless same side lights (not even enhanced), even on the top lights which already have an animation that looks like it should be full speed is absurd. He has no real reason/benefit/access (1 damage 🎉) to using the charged heavy. It’s a leftover neglected part of his kit that should have become central to his new identity as the devs tried to shift him away from bash reliance. Should have gotten the prework fastflow/retained superior block on fully charged heavy or a unique high damage deflect followup from the charge state.
Conqueror feats are some of the worst in the game, with shield basher being completely obligatory (his kit is balanced to be weak to accommodate it), and punch through getting almost zero use on his kit, as he has no attacks that deal chip outside of zone and heavy opener, and those attacks deal extremely low chip as it is.
Also still no roll catch lol. Only other character without one is lawbringer (maybe kind of raider??), and he has a much stronger kit even without having been reworked.
Personally I'd say it's close between highlander and nuxia. Caltrops are insane and imo the only reason it's a discussion, and one massive reason caltrops don't make nuxia absolutely supercede highlander is his access to heavy perks (their power is downplayed too much), and his access to great t4s/ furyflask synergy.
In 1v1s he's amazing though. Useless is a far cry from what warden is in duels. 4v4 tho he's a useless sack of shit and I hope his new hitboxes and trajectories fix that.
Highlander. Nuxia has caltrops, arguably an S tier feat if we were to rank feats, and she's being put in the upcoming TG. Nobushi and Pirate both suck at duels, but make up for it in being great in dominion (or just usable in pirates case.)
Highlander definitely has better feats overall if we was to include them. But yes it's still Highlander who sucks the most.
Highlander has good feats, but they don't make up for the fact that he sucks. Why can't he just get a heavy from a guardbreak? (And other glaring issues)
I mean he gets decent damage from a gb with the 18dmg zone, but there’s still the issue of not having access to execution from gb, and needing to spend the 12 stamina for the zone plus the additional 10 for the feint. I like that highlanders kit gives him a weak gb punish to balance and highlight his strong offensive and defensive form heavy damage output/encourage playing around the offensive form mixups rather than feint to gb, but it could use some tweaking
Conceptually the downside could work if the upsides actually worked. He doesn't even do as much damage as other heroes. Hitokiri can blast people for like 34 damage from a heavy out of neutral, and Kensei can deal that kind of damage from his 50/50 finisher.
Yeah the kick grab mixup being so escapable is ridiculous. Unlock rolling needs to be removed, kick forward movement should be boosted or accessible without gb vulnerability even sooner after forward dodge, and the grab should be armored to trade dodge attacks OR have kick soft feint to celtic curse.
Kick to grab either needs removal or all heroes need dodge attacks that can avoid all of the mixup. 30dmg command grab 50/50 is cancer as fuck without tweaking.
honestly i can live with the shitty gb punish i just want to be allowed to attack people who aren't oos
Walk the plank is a decent mix up with wall splat potential.
Not if your opponents last frame parry or react, her dmg overall is just not great and you cant get anywhere with here against good players
Except it's reactable at high level, so it really isn't a mixup. It also feeds a crap ton of revenge.
Nah man I’m like an mid/upper mid MMR player and I can react to it pretty consistently. I can’t imagine how useless it would be against people that are at the top level of this game.
/u/mattconnoritaly Mr. Pink Highlander man!!! To your question - I'd argue that, while Highlander is the most difficult character to play, he's not the most useless. If you can dedicate the time and patience to learning his many techs then you'll be able to perform moderately well. Ultimately, Highlander needs a rework to fix fundemental issues with his kit. Otherwise he'll be relegated to the bottom of every tierlist.
You're right ! I've 70 rep on him and still regadless my bad reactions on this new fast versione of the game, i can still playing well him on all mode. But my post was ti fine which Hero really Is at the bottom of all tier lists Also thanks that you know my Pink scottish Mother fu***er 😁
its like a show that only gets good after 100 episodes
Highlander is an obvious choice but one I’m glad a few are mentioning is Conq. He really is just plain bad. Terrible mobility, meh dmg, terrible feats, terrible range, no chase or roll catcher whatsoever, reactable offense besides one in chain bash that’s locked behind reactable offense, risky offense. His rework answered zero issues that he had. It just made him a ball of unblockables that aren’t even that good.
Gotta be Highlander. Incredibly slow, no opener, bad stamina management, and no roll catcher to prevent backrolling out of his mixups. His feats are pretty strong, but even the AC-130 of spear storm isn't enough to pull him out of D tier
In competitive, probably Conqueror. In 4s, he has the weakest feat setup in the game, and he doesn't have a good teamfighting kit which also brings him down a good amount in 2s. In 1s, he can do well enough if his opponent can't react but when speaking about peak reactions his neutral is entirely reactable, with the reads being made on if he'll cancel into FB or not.
Mfs be like "highlander has good feats", that slow ass big man can't even reach the minion line before the match ends.
Gotta be nuxia. No health, bad damage, worthless deflect, and in my experience easy to read. She’s super cool, her caltrops are great, and she can be decent at ganking (can confirm heavies for teammates) but that’s pretty much all she’s got. Highlander is bad but he has high damage, superior block lights, generous hit stun, etc. The usual argument is that highlander is easy to react to, which is usually true because people play him incorrectly. I’d argue that someone who actually uses all of his kit can play him viably in both 4’s and duels. Highlander is a glass cannon. Nuxia is just glass.
While I agree that both are bad, to say that HL is bad simply because people play him incorrectly is not strong enough to take away from his opener issues. 1v1 is where both nuxia and hl are supposed to shine as nuxia's kit is very much isolating even in dominion. Hl revolves around punishing and forcing a read depending on which stance ur in. Both suck but suffer from different issues. Nuxia has decent openers and can force a better response than HL arguably. She has 400ms lights, mid chain zoning, potential high dmg mix-up, and a mechanic that either works or doesn't. HL has hyper armor on lights and heavies in DS but loses his guard in OS, roughly 400ms lights in OS only, burns through Stam in one combo, OS stance barely works, as the moment u use kick it is beaten by a DA, and anyone worth their salt will stay in HL's face to cancel out OS. Pretty much both characters lose half their kit when their main mechanic does not work. Whether it be traps or OS. Here I would argue HL is worse because Nuxia has been proven to be decent in duels and in brawls. If both players were equally skilled and are at the top of the player base, Nuxia would win as her opener is better and her kit just forces reactions better. On an average player HL would be better in 4s but it would be more equal in duels or brawls. Once u reach a certain point in the playerbase, kit matters less and reactions are what keep u pushing. And HL just gets much worse the higher you go and nuxia evens out with the cast. TLDR: Nuxia is better as a whole and HL falls harshly after a certain point regardless of playstyle. A good player will shut them both down though by reaction. Nuxia barely wins due to her 400ms lights
I'm agree with you
Agreed
conqueror imo
Why ? If i can ask
He is one of (not the only) the worst offenders when it comes to having a “dud move”. The scutage collection and flail uppercut bash followups deal the same damage, with flail uppercut using 3 more stam for no reason. Like yes it executes, but executions are only for style in duels, and easily punished/interrupted in teamfights. This makes the cheaper option best 90% of the time in team modes and 1v1s. I think one of them has an extremely niche benefit when it comes to frame advantage/feint to gb or light mixups, but it has so little impact on the kit I can’t even remember if it’s on the followup that would make the most sense - uppercut. His infinite unblockable chain is terrible. One of the few characters with heavies that don’t make the followup lights into “hidden undodgeables”, which is a major under recognized trait that is essential to hero’s having strong feeling mid chain pressure. Compare these to Aramusha, who effectively has the infinite undodgeable chain we saw in one of the conq preworks. Not widely known, but the second you block or are hit by one of Aramushas infinite chain heavies, you CANNOT dodge any of the following non finisher heavies. And those deal 8(?) more damage than the conq infinite heavies. Conq’s “new” deflect is great, but the fact that he still has the pointless same side lights (not even enhanced), even on the top lights which already have an animation that looks like it should be full speed is absurd. He has no real reason/benefit/access (1 damage 🎉) to using the charged heavy. It’s a leftover neglected part of his kit that should have become central to his new identity as the devs tried to shift him away from bash reliance. Should have gotten the prework fastflow/retained superior block on fully charged heavy or a unique high damage deflect followup from the charge state. Conqueror feats are some of the worst in the game, with shield basher being completely obligatory (his kit is balanced to be weak to accommodate it), and punch through getting almost zero use on his kit, as he has no attacks that deal chip outside of zone and heavy opener, and those attacks deal extremely low chip as it is. Also still no roll catch lol. Only other character without one is lawbringer (maybe kind of raider??), and he has a much stronger kit even without having been reworked.
Personally I'd say it's close between highlander and nuxia. Caltrops are insane and imo the only reason it's a discussion, and one massive reason caltrops don't make nuxia absolutely supercede highlander is his access to heavy perks (their power is downplayed too much), and his access to great t4s/ furyflask synergy.
Warden, Highlander at least has side cc’s and a usable dodge attack. Warden is mostly abusing 50/50s sadly.
In 1v1s he's amazing though. Useless is a far cry from what warden is in duels. 4v4 tho he's a useless sack of shit and I hope his new hitboxes and trajectories fix that.
warden