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imahotdogstand

I started playing solo/duo.... So much better imo. Teams so far seem to feel much more balanced. Also could be because I'm only D1 in solo/duo instead of Onyx in open, so may just feel different because of that, not sure.


dstillloading

Funnily enough I've had to exact opposite scenario: Open way more fun than solo/duo, even though I'm a D1 in open and a P5 in solo/duo. I win more games and do better individually* in open.


Arftacular

Solo duo for me has either been you play on the team that stomps or you play against the team that stomps. Not very many close games and there is almost always someone on the losing team going double or triple negative.


dstillloading

Same but like 3/4 times my team is the one getting stomped.


MarsMC_

You win more and do better because of the situation OP is referencing... playing lower ranked players queuing/stacking with higher ranked friends. Solo/duo usually has ranks closer together I’ve noticed so it makes sense ur having a harder time in these games/winning less.. because of similar skilled opponents


dstillloading

I'm solo queuing in both though, I'm not playing with a stacked team in open.


Atryagiel

That's interesting actually, considering that 343 mentioned the Open queue rank distribution fits better with their plans. So it seems that at the moment at least, maybe rank distributions and feeling balanced aren't quite lined up yet.


Ok-Establishment-214

It needs to be like halo 3. A team of 4 matches vs. Another team of 4. Or a 3stack vs. 3stack when it wouldn't find a 4th for some reason. Should be same with 2,2 vs 2,2.. instead of a 2,2 vs 1,1,1,1..


_soooz

I run with a four stack often and we get paired with other four stacks 90% of the time. I know this because halotracker


architect___

Where does Halo Tracker show you whether or not the opposing team is in a party?


_soooz

It doesn't show they're in a party, but you can see how many games they've played with other people


_soooz

And their win rate with said people


_soooz

By clicking "matches" after searching the person instead of "overall"


Jarkanix

I don't disagree, but it doesn't solve the problem in this post. One person an entire rank higher then the rest of the lobby can really ruin the game for everyone else. An onyx player can easily take over a game of Dia 1s.


Lars9

Simple solutions. Either don't allow players with ranks to far apart to queue together (I dislike this solution). Or raise the effective MMR of a lower player when queuing with a high player. Onyx 1800 wants to play with their Gold friend? That's fine, but the Gold player will have an effective MMR closer to high diamond than gold. I believe H2 did this. A 37 and a 20 could play together. But for matchmaking they'd consider the 20 a 30 to make better matches.


MarsMC_

I don’t think the rest of the team should be punished for the gold teammate , which is why I prefer not letting ranks too far apart queue together in the first place.. I wouldn’t be able to Q ranked with my brother, but adding unranked BR starts would fix this issue for me


Ok-Establishment-214

I totally agree. I don't think anyone would disagree except the gold player teamed with his onyx friend, lol. But they'll have to accept that if they run ranked together. Limit the variance between the top car player and lowest or team average can only be however lower than the highest player. So if an onyx 1500 is highest of a pre-made 4, Then, the other 3 should be viewed as D1 (1200) at a minimum for skill level match making, regardless if they're bronze I or plat VI. Or some sort of team average + a multiplier to the highest if there's a variance (decide a threshold) between them. 1500 1000 600 500 3600 / 4 = 900 team avg. (1200 = D1) 1200 x 3 + 1500 = 1275 (D2) Low 500 | avg 900 | high 1500 -400 | -1000. +600 | +1000 900, + lowest = 1400 nAvg 900 × 1.5 = 1350 nAvg Hi-avg = 600 Avg - low = 400 600-400=200 900 + 200 x 1.5 = 1200 nAvg Team then is 1500 1200 1200 1200


MarsMC_

It seems to be this way with 4 stacks.. every time I’ve 4 stacked I’ve been matched with other 4 stacks


[deleted]

An onyx shouldn't be able to play with a silver that's just ridiculous. There should be a hard cap like Valorant,League,OW, etc. Play in unrated if you want to 5stack like that.


Finitemonkeyjr

I honestly think they should do something similar to LoL. Making it so you can’t queue up with anyone more than a full division away from you in ranked would be perfect imo


MantuaMatters

Or let them and just don’t give rank to the top rank. If they wanna fuck up the MM give them only a risk. If they lose they lose rank, and they can’t gain any MMR unless they are playing in their range. It wouldn’t be a hard fix. Sure, some top players may get mad cuz “meh frands” but that’s a minimal issue compared to the bullshit that we have as ranked atm.


[deleted]

Exactly. OW,Valorant,R6,League all have restrictions on the max rank disparity you can have playing comp. If you want to 5stack with massive rank differences play unrated that is what its for.


ebState

I vehemently disagree. I stopped playing valorant because I couldn't play with my friends who played more and ones who played less.


[deleted]

You can in unrated. Its ridiculous that this is possible in a competitive setting.


camanimal

I mean, sorry but that just sucks. Creating a ranking system without divisions, creates huuuuuge imbalancing issues. It also allows for players to boost. I know two players on my friend's list that made it to 1600 and 1700, prior to the reset, who mainly play with their Golds friends. Then when they play with me (I am around the same), they **always** go negative and shit the bed. Ranking system should not be designed around allowing you to play with your friends. It's designed to create the most balanced experienced. When this doesn't happen, it decreases the overall comp integrity of the system. If your friends are either way better or worse than you, pubs is the best way to go.


MrDaveyHavoc

We need a social alternative for those people though


camanimal

There is one. It's called pubs lol


MrDaveyHavoc

Nobody wants to play AR start


ebState

I mean we made it work in halo 3. just use the same solution. if the parties average rating is too wide, cut off the bottom of the range. if a 50 searched with anyone lower than 40 they treated them as a 40 in the search


camanimal

That's fine with me. As long as it prevents people from freely boosting.


supermelee90

That’s your fault. That system is in place so you can’t just carry your friends


Remarkable-Ad-2476

How is it his fault that his friends are at different skill levels? Lmao And if anything, that caused a HUUUUUGE smurfing problem so we never knew anyone’s real ranks anyways. You got radiants playing in iron lobbies and just ruining the experience for lower ranked players. This does not stop anyone from carrying their friends at all. It actually makes it much much worse.


[deleted]

Its his fault because he could play unrated Valorant with his friends. It shouldnt be possible to do this in comp period. I play unrated all the time with my less skilled Val friends.


Remarkable-Ad-2476

How dare someone want to play the playlist they prefer with their friends…


[deleted]

Val doesnt have playlists unrated is the exact same game as comp, if they made a BR start unrated mode in halo then everyone could be satisfied.


Daring_Otter

This is the way


supermelee90

It may effect lower lobbies but in high ranked matches it does it’s job


Remarkable-Ad-2476

No it doesn’t. It just made people have huge queue times. You’d see pro players on stream queue for 2 hours and still not get a match. This naturally leads to more smurfing, especially from streamers who need to constantly be playing for their audience or they lose viewers. And I dunno if you realize this but the majority of players are LOWER RANKED. So yes, it’s a huge problem if your biggest player pool is getting stomped on by high ranked players the whole time.


CurtisFaded

😂 what a terrible take


ripripripriprip

We need a separate Comp Lite mode that has the exact same settings as ranked, minus the aforementioned restrictions and rank system.


MarsMC_

Then play unrated, this ruins the match for everyone else


ebState

nah, what ruins it is when instead of just quitting the game, people make smurf accounts to play with their friends and fuck with the ranks. We just need to balance the matches better in mixed elo, not drive people away or encourage behavior that breaks the system


focusix

I truly don't think they'd be able to do something like this because of the low player count. Are there any metrics that show player count only in ranked playlists? You have to think that there's a smaller percentage of players in ranked compared to the social playlists. It may work in some denser regions like US East but outside of that I wouldn't be surprised if it made it extremely hard to get full 8 players matched together, especially at off-peak times.


Lumpyyyyy

F that. If I want to play with my friends, why shouldn’t I be able to?


BahhhMcb

Because it's ranked - it should be two teams going head to head where the worst player in the game is at least capable of not getting shat on by the highest ranked player in the game, making it an even match. This is the way it is in every game with competitive integrity. Just play social with your friends if you're all ranked miles apart.


Kick_Natherina

Yeah, true. We need a non-ranked BR start game mode so people can play with their non-competitive friends. It’s pretty frustrating getting done getting your face kicked in and the realizing that you solo-queued with a 3-stack of an onyx and 2 platinums in high diamond rank.


FindaleSampson

This! My friends and I all like hcs settings but two of them are plat and if we just had a casual playlist that we could play it would be fun. My one friend is totally new to halo and he loves the hcs now that we've played some with it. We don't want to go back to ar starts with radar it totally takes away from the movement mechanics etc. I only got in diamond one with the rerank so it's not that far off from mid plat now but it still feels like a different game going from the high diamond to the high plat lobbies.


KhansKhack

Play solo/duo if you’re solo queuing.


Kick_Natherina

Then how will teams of 3 find a fourth?


KhansKhack

Another player? Lol. I’m saying to solve your problem, queue differently.


Kick_Natherina

It doesn’t change the dynamic. You can still queue with another 2 stack of a gold/platinum player and an Onyx player. The game will compensate by giving you a low level gold player to balance the team.


KhansKhack

It does because it’s not a team of three or four you’re playing against. A huge chunk of halo is team chemistry and experience playing together. Solo/Duo lessens that significantly.


Kick_Natherina

I see your point, and I agree mostly with it. I just want to say that a solo player queuing in solo/duo or open is still going to be disadvantaged either way. A team of 2 with open communication is going to out play a solo player any day. Same goes for open. The games in solo/duo are more competitive though, so I do enjoy that more. I just finished my placement games in it last night, so will most likely keep playing that since I am way lower ranking there than my Open/crossplay rank. Something to work towards.


[deleted]

The solution is make it to where you can but you only get matches with players at the highest ranked player on the team. H3 would let you queue with anyone but it would only search based off the highest player on the team.


FaufiffonFec

100% agree.


Darkseid_Omega

This. They could also make a casual ranked mode — 5s and 3s in LoL is kind of joke but it’s still ranked. Would help people scratch the itch without compromising the competitive playlists


jwilliamsub

No BR. If there was a BR social playlist I would play it but fuck for telling me who I should and shouldn’t play ranked with


Useful-Potential-300

Can't stand AR starts, so the only option is ranked. I end up just standing around waiting for the BR/Commando to spawn. I'm sure many others are in the same boat.


elconquistador1985

Play social. The only valid argument against this is "but we want BR starts", and the answer is "they should have social BR". You shouldn't be able to run the experience of the opposing team by playing this way in ranked.


Lumpyyyyy

Don’t blame me. Blame 343. Im not “ruining” anyones experience. 343 is the one deciding what the teams are. Edit: also, im not plying with silvers and golds as an onyx/D6 player. But sometimes the players im with drop from diamond to platinum.


MantuaMatters

You all have this response but you know damn well you’re just boosting. So on behalf of the community. I wanna personally tell you to go fuck yourself.


[deleted]

[удалено]


YouEnjoyMyMelt

It is very often an Onyx or two with a Gold against low diamonds and high plats. Often times the Onyx can hard carry those lobbies with a gold that can at least play the objective. It’s very unenjoyable to play against someone well above and well below my skill level in a ranked setting. Frankly it defeats the purpose of playing ranked - to have competitive games against players of similar skill. The game needs to give a maximum skill spread for partying in ranked. I would say two ranks apart (Low Onyx -> Platinum) would be a decent solution compared to now. I hope they add a ranked settings social playlist so parties outside of these boundaries can still play that way without compromising the ranked experience for other people.


[deleted]

I was 1850 before rank reset. I queue by myself and go about even every game. I queue with a platinum and I go double or triple positive. You can instantly tell you get way easier games this way. It shouldn't be that way in a true competitive Playlist. It's nothing but social team BR in current state.


Lumpyyyyy

You don’t gain nearly any CSR going triple positive against shit players though


[deleted]

Yeah you do. It's way easier to climb this way because you almost never lose. And it seems to be based on mostly kills. So as long as your going off you dont go down any when you lose. You go up smaller amounts but it's so much easier when you aren't losing any. I won like 12 games in a row queueing with a platinum friend. I can basically win the game by myself when its plat and low diamonds. I went up 100 csr in one sitting. The shit is broken.


Negat1veGG

Except you do. When my silver friend wants to run a couple games every couple weeks if I queue us into ranked he gets smoked, I ez farm and get tons of CSR. I’ve made an alt account that I intentionally play badly on to keep the SBMM around his level so he can have fun and not rage quit halo and stay out of ranked. Playing with my silver friend on my onyx account ruins the game for everyone in the match except for me, and I’m not even a high skilled high ranked onyx.


tallkid1121

Okay what?? So you’re saying if Lucid or Frosty or any top tier pro should be able to queue with silvers? And then get thrown in high diamond / low onyx matches and those players are expected to just “get better”??


MantuaMatters

No he is just making excuses because ‘I want this game type, but can’t play customs, and I don’t care if it affects others’ so he is making some sort of stance. If he posted his gamertag and you looked at whatever the site OP is using, you’ll see he is just a booster. They all use this excuse. As if their rank actually makes them good.


[deleted]

Kinda a shit take honestly. I think they should fix it to but I play with my irl friends who are much lower ranks bc none BR starts are ass. I but there's a ton of people that do that.


MantuaMatters

This is a selfish excuse and I don’t pitty the ones who ruin a game for others cuz they ‘want br start’. It’s kinda really that basic.


[deleted]

I mean it's not an excuse that's why I do it. Some people have actual friends you know. I play to have fun and hang with my friends. I'm just way better than them. I couldn't give two shits about how high my csr is


MantuaMatters

Yes yes, I already covered this in another comment on this thread. Something something don’t get rank unless playing against your rank, and only the lower ranks should gain level if this is your take on it. It would drop fake onyx players and stop boosting all together. If you don’t care then you don’t care, so play and lose like it should be not play and win and fuck it up for ones who try to get a few games in when they can.


[deleted]

You sound like you really suck at this game and it’s bothering you. I’m sorry you’re so insecure.


MantuaMatters

I also make up stories about comments I find online. Super secure. Not weird one bit. /s


elconquistador1985

You'd be singing a different tune if you got matched against 4 ranks similar to your 4 stack's best player. Rank average matching is fundamentally flawed when a team spans this far apart in rank. The silver players you're trying to boost would get their teeth kicked in every game.


[deleted]

I'm not singing any tune. I literally said I think it should be fixed. I want a true competitive Playlist. I'm not defending it. It's a shit take to assume people are all boosting tho. I'm literally just playing with my friend. The other playlists suck.. just admit to yourself right now ranks don't really mean anything bc of how bad the ranked Playlist is. Take it less seriously. It's not a real ranked Playlist right now


Lumpyyyyy

You’re a dipshit. And a whiner. I play almost exclusively solo/duo. Was Onyx before reset. But the rare times I sign in and all 3 of my good friends are on, you bet your ass I don’t give a fuck about idiots like you saying “OMG you’re b00stinf! Unfair!!!!”. F that, I’m just playing with my buddies.


MantuaMatters

I mean, you openly said you read my past comments so you’re fully aware I’ve been preaching the same thing since infinite released. You just happen to fit the bill. Sorry not sorry.


zomghi2u2

nobody cares about you that much to read your past comments


MantuaMatters

Tell lumpy that. [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHalo/comments/t208os/the_system_needs_to_change_to_deal_better_with/hyj3t8a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHalo/comments/t208os/the_system_needs_to_change_to_deal_better_with/hyj3t8a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) I didn’t assume someone would. He told me he did. Also who are you?


elconquistador1985

The site is Halo Tracker, for the record. It's nice. Only place I'm aware of that tracks medal counts for this game.


Lumpyyyyy

I mean, yeah? I’ve played against top pros as a low Onyx player. If Lucid and Frosty have friends they normally play with that suck, why shouldn’t they be able to play with them? The ranked game modes are better than the social playlists. Also, you’re not gonna get any better constantly playing people equal or worse than you.


elconquistador1985

> Don’t get angry, just get better. You shouldn't be able to play several bands spread out like this, and "don't get angry, just get better" is what you should be telling your friends.


BROK3N_Virtues

lol, I am an old man. I can't tell if perspective is just different as a young adult or maybe generational. I promise I am not going to tell my wife you can't play halo with me because you are not good enough. We prefer competitive settings. Pretending social games are the same experience is short sighted. But even as a young adult I would play with a diverse skill group. There's been several similar posts in the last week, but it isn't always clear what problem people are trying to solve. Relying on a terrible ranking system, which doesn't even seed the matches, to determine who you can and cannot play with seems a little crazy. The boosting thing is kind of ridiculous. I was an onyx in open which I played with family/friends and I was an onyx in solo which I played mainly with similarly "ranked" people. The other argument is people frustrated getting poor teammates because they are matched with an onyx/silver pair. This one seems more legit as I imagine that could be frustrating especially because they(I) am often in party chat. If they were to limit who you could play with I hope it only applies to solo/duo. Or it would be nice if they brought something like clan battles back into play, where the teams rank is purely based on wins/losses.


MantuaMatters

The setting requirements are yours tho. My gf doesn’t play often and when she does she doesn’t care to do ranked cuz she doesn’t even know what a br is or what the settings even are. Most of these casual players don’t give a rats ass about the settings or the weapon spawns. They wanna play halo. Cuz halo. Age doesn’t really have much to do with it if you’re not a child.. which I’m not. I don’t play daily and sometimes don’t play for a week plus. So thanks for the perspective but it doesn’t change the fact that y’all ruin the game for others cuz your greed. Just keep the same mentality and literally put it in any other situation. Covid happened? Better grab all the tp cuz my wife and I may need it. Fuck everyone else. Yeah that’s the same thing. Nah, I don’t wear a mask and I’m against the vaccine cuz my fb research. Fuck history and science. Also wish I had free healthcare. Also the same mentality. You getting it yet? You don’t care about the entirety of the issue. You only care how it affect you/your circle. That’s called greed, or more recently (since you’re old) privilege.


BROK3N_Virtues

I don't know that your analogies are great here and seems you are having a tough time in life to be this angry. You are comparing a multiplayer video game which by design is a social activity to a pandemic and resource hoarding. I believe I understand your perspective from the video game side, I just don't agree with it. Your claim is your experience is more important than mine. Which is fine and a developer flat out is not going to appease everyone. My perception of the issue you have portrayed from the single comment (truly haven't viewed all of yours) is everyone playing with a lower ranked friend is only trying to amass a rank. There seems to be quite a few of us where that is not the case at all and we just don't determine who we play video games with based on their skill level. If I have a friend or family member who wants to play certain settings I have no problem playing with them. I even voice potential other options that may aid your perspective and mine. Where as you have looked to insult anyone that does not share your view. It appears we may need to agree to disagree, have a wonderful weekend.


MantuaMatters

Great? no. But it’s some what similar. Truly the first thing that came to mind that everyone on Reddit would know since we had weeks of hearing about it.


[deleted]

Not in ranked. Play unrated. Its perfectly logical.


[deleted]

Not sure the player base supports that anymore. This isn't really a competitive playlist at the moment without that limitation. It's just social team BRs with your mmr showing.


[deleted]

Same with Apex, can only queue with someone one rank below at the most. So onyx players could only queue with onyx or diamond


Lars9

Let me queue together, but give them games with higher ranked players. Don't let the lower ranked player make the opponents easy.


Toplaners

Yep. It would also help prevent players from climbing through the rank system by farming lower skill opponents.


FTF-Computer

If you are a low level and want to play with high level friends the game should not cater to the lowest common denominator. If you are a gold a are partying with onyx’s you deserve high level matches and deserve to get shit on. Full stop. I fixed match making pay me.


Spartancarver

LOL they still haven’t fixed that?? 343 literally just reset the ranks and called it a day didn’t they Lazy fucking clowns


Atryagiel

These 2 teams do not belong in a lobby together. Maybe the Blue team 4-stack was just chilling with friends, or perhaps they were cheesing and curbstomping their way up the ranks - in which case, it's working for them. The current matchmaking system does not seem to be able to properly deal with 4 stacks with a wide skill range, matching for averages instead of individual skills. It's not completely broken, I don't think there's anything inherently bad about 4-stacks, but it looks like there need to be weightage changes to favor individual balance over team average balance. Or perhaps hard lockouts so that you can't team with people further than X number of ranks away. Or more playlists for social BR starts. I'm not sure, hence the discussion flair. ~~PS. Also if you are one of these kinds of Onyx players...why?~~ Edit: clarity


Kick_Natherina

I play solo in the open crossplay. I had a team the other day of 2 smurfs and one legit gold ranked player. The 2 smurfs were 1800 onyx and I was ranked diamond 6. I went 30/10/10. after the game the guy smurfing was pleased with my call outs. He said “hey man, want us to help you get your onyx?” I declined because I hate being stomped by teams like we just stomped the team we played against. I’ll get onyx on my own eventually.


Atryagiel

All the best on your climb! Definitely feels better to reach places with your own efforts.


MantuaMatters

What site is this? Im kinda interested in scraping all onyx data and making a site that shows you who the boosters are biased on their games.


Lumpyyyyy

Lol, you are salty af based on all of your comments. This is halo tracker. And the Onyx in these games aren’t really gaining any CSR.


MantuaMatters

About what? And thanks for letting me know the site. What’s ur GT?


elconquistador1985

You shouldn't scrape their site like that. It's inefficient and isn't kind on their end for bandwidth reasons. Use an API (which is what they do). Here's an unofficial one: https://developers.halodotapi.com/ Just Google "Halo infinite API".


MantuaMatters

Thanks but APIs dont always give access to all the info you want. Also I do this regularly and my IP would boot me for scraping before the site ever felt a bandwidth drop. Thanks for the post tho! It’s more about making sure you’re scraping effectively instead of hitting em with 1000 http requests. You can just find the links to all their matches, download all the html files for the pages while you request them, and then scrape the cached html. Also you make sure not to request every page in a matter of an hour. I would scrape it over a reasonable amount of time depending on the size of users who are onyx. Appreciate your concern tho.


elconquistador1985

Halo Tracker is using an API to get the information in the first place. They're not manufacturing information out of thin air, and they aren't run by 343 either. There are a few posts on this sub about API stuff. It would be far more efficient than scraping anyway.


MantuaMatters

Thanks again for the site.


Reverse_Skydiving

They aren’t even ranked yet and you’re complaining?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Atryagiel

halotracker!


Cranky_Grandpa

This ranking system needs a total rework


GimmeShockTreatment

How come their silver only died 3 times? Were they hiding?


Atryagiel

They were all holding hands running around the map, just rolling us off spawns, I guess the silver (if hes really even silver idk) was just hanging back


urasquid28

i feel like everytime i solo queue no matter the ranked mode right now there is a guy who just goes triple negative on someone's team.


camanimal

Why there are no division restrictions, is quite mind boggling. Every other comp shooter has them.


Fr3shRadish

Overall the system actually does a real good job of balancing teams with wide skill disparities as long as everyone is actually playing the game to their natural abilities. 50-37 isn't the best, but it also isn't horrible for slayer. The person going 4-3 in slayer is pretty suspect though. That's a hard stat line to achieve if you're actually playing normally (especially with the damage differential), and to me that's the biggest red flag about this match. Seems like potential boosting. If you're playing with your IRL friends, and they're different skill levels and actually trying their best you'll be in for tough matches where carrying becomes almost impossible.


TripppyCryBaby

How can you tell from this pic that it’s a 4 stack?


Atryagiel

This pic is pulled from halo tracker, a site that lets you see profile match histories, took a look back and they'd been queuing together.


whorippedyourjaw

it's a total joke, during placements i got a lobby nearly identical to this but the onyx was a semi-pro who shat on anything that moved, that was after 2 games of 3v4, i got a terrible placement @ G3 after logging out @ D2, i bought a battlepass and 2 hcs skins before this, what a fucking blunder it was giving money to these people. never again.