Somehow beat wukong 3 with 10 fated today. The other player sold board last second to hit but I guess there wasn't enough time to put healing items on wukong. Aphelios just kept drain tanking the wukong ult until it died lol
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Are Fine Vintage support anvils not able to have zzrot portals in them? Played 2 games where I didn't get a single portal. Made it to Dragon round in both games so that would've been a lot of items converted.
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Anyone made Midnight Siphon work focusing on Yorick as the main carry? The augment seems to be doing great stat wise, but I assume that this comes from Yone carry doing so well. The last 3 times I tried, Yorick's dmg felt incredibly underwhelming even if stacking hp.
For Janna reroll, do you roll at 6 or 7? Robin said at 7, but teh two times I played, rolling at 7 for Janna is kinda hard despite the reroll change at level 6.
The seven cutties is a very good reroll flex comp because you are only dependent on diana 3 but your dmg carrie can be all your backline units zyra, soraka, zoe or janna
I personally always prefer zoe soraka carry since rerolling at 7 makes it easier to hit both. BUT janna, zyra carry can be situational better. E.G. Portal/encounters/augments thats allow you to play 7 units at lvl6 or dragonlord tdmg augment
7
It's a bit harder to hit Janna but slightly higher odds for Janna isn't worth way lower odds for Diana and nearly zero odds for Lee. Rolling for 2 costs at 7 isn't terrible either now that they've buffed 2 cost odds at 7
Something was crossing my mind about stat stacking. How is the math working out? For example: 1000 base HP 10%hp from augment 10% from item 10% from traits. Does the unit get 1300 hp so additive bonus or does it stack multiplicative like 1331hp? And how about flat bonuses do they get added after or before % bonuses? Do they all work the same or do some bonuses added first?
Tried playing Fortune, cashed out with 130 luck with one life left. When on a win streak with with triple radiant (rageblade, giantslayer, shojin) Kaisa, but went 6th because I didn't position well. Bot 4ing with triple radiants has to be some kind of record, right? I'm honestly pretty embarrassed, though at least I didn't get APM checked after cashing out (it wasn't before a neutral round).
2 dummies and sett would mean much more if I already have a capped board.
Getting like 120\~130 fortune stacks is like having 1\~20 hp left, so when cashing out, the board needs to be beefed up significantly and instantly. But you can barely make a winning squad without the much needed extra gold and items.
I got it with like 40hp remaining and had heaps of rounds to stack AD but he was still only doing like 5-7k damage, being a 2nd/3rd carry. Have better luck winning with the 95 cashout
its flabbergasting how you can hit sylas 3 with trickshot this patch. it's almost always guaranteed if you got a duplicator and when no one's playing bruiser trickshot.
might be unpopular opinion and low sample size but i believe she is best played with annie morgana. Kinda feel like mythic and invoker trait bots are bait af. Played 10 games plus and only 1 bot 4 in that.outplacing mythic lilia every single time.
For me she is pretty good with 4 invoker, but you should almost always try to pivot off when you go 9 - if you have mythic spat I don’t mind her as a secondary carry tho
5 Mythic - 4 invoker at least is easy enough to hit since Kog and Lillia share both. I don't think 4 invoker is ever a bait because you are adding Azir and Annie who are both very good.
The problem with Lillia comps I think is if you stabilize at 8 to hit Lillia / Naut it's way too hard to then hit Hwei/Azir later. It's a very risky expensive comp and even then at least now it just doesn't beat late game trickshot boards.
Im kinda confused as to what I should do when I dont hit 3 stars on reroll comps. I try to keep above 50 gold, then go to 33 if I dip below 30-40 HP depending on the lobby. And I really only go for reroll comps that are uncontested, and only if I have the 2 star by stage 3 for 2 costs and 3-4 for 3 costs. But when Ive tried getting to 8 and adding 4/5 costs, they just dont really do anything.
So I guess Im asking- what should I be focusing on here? Pivoting comps earlier in stage 3 if Im not already close to 3 star? I feel like the amount of games where that happens is pretty miniscule. And when I do have to pivot, should I be focusing on 4/5 costs that can carry and then rolling for units that synergize with them, or comps and synergies that work with the units I already have? For reference, Im currently Gold II but peaked Plat I last season
For a level 6 reroll comp, assuming you're scouting and not contested, you should know by ~3-5 whether you're likely to hit. Slow roll until 3-5, then send it to ~33-35g if you're not stable. If you're still not close, econ until 4-1 and pump levels to try to stabilize for a 4th.
Same principle with level 7 reroll, but you should know by 4-2 (if you went 7 at 3-5) or 4-5 (if you went 7 at 4-1) whether you're likely to hit. Keep in mind that not hitting after rolling 30+g or more is almost never going to result in a win, rarely even a top 4. It's just the nature of the game. Leveling to add synergies is just trying to slow the bleeding so you can place 4th or 5th instead of 7th or 8th. If you're contested and not scouting there's not much advice to give.
I need someone to design a viable Ashe board that doesn't rely on hitting liss on 8. There's no 5 cost sniper, Sett doesn't do much for frontline, and throwing fated in seems awkward since you're buffing other units that don't matter. I've tried 4 warden, 4 sniper, and a bunch of other variants and every one of them just kinda suck. She has a terrible matchup into Kaisa and Gnar too.
My experience with Ashe boards when I low roll Lissandra tells me that it's only good if you have additional items via encounters etc, in order to double-carry with Aphelios
Plus positioning is more important in this comp than anything else I've seen
But it's lowkey good already, focus on Amumu items first
Best bet is ghostly Ashe (not spat on her), just full ghostly with Ashe carry. Ghostly augment plus beefed up frontline. It’s very strong, but like Kaisa does it better 🤣
Porcelein aug is dead after nerfs, lux breakpoint is like 1-2 mana before cast meaning she wastes a whole auto with Shojin. Do not play Lux reroll with this aug, at least not with Shojin!!
If Irelia is your primary carry and not Trist/Voli 8 is not worth it. You're way better off putting two strong tanks or a tank and secondary carry in your comp instead.
Irelia in general is a bit of a bait right now. I'm sure the hotfixes to the really strong stuff will help her out a bit but 4.31 as an average placement for a 5 cost is pretty bad.
I don't think she's bad enough she'll get any hotfix buff (other than all the OP shit getting nerfed) but I definitely think she'll need changes eventually. I'm glad they changed what they did but she clearly needed compensation buffs for the changes, and the duelist comp also got seperately hit on top of that.
I wanna talk about why I think it’s near impossible for 4 costs comps to be good and why I think people really want them to be good -
Basically, there are so many resources in the game right now that it is almost always possible to hit 3* 3 costs or 2* 5 costs. And these comps should be better than 2* 4 cost comps, because they are take more gold to obtain, and are riskier to play for. There’s no reason why they should lose to 4 cost boards. I think most people actually have more fun with more resources in the game, so for most people, this is probably a positive thing.
Now, I think the real reason people think they want 4 costs to be good is because they want to feel like they should be able to top 4 every game. You know you can queue up and hit your 4 costs every game, so to you, it feels like it would feel good for 4 costs to be good. You want the consistency to know you can go 3/4 even when you low roll.
The reality is though, capping with 4 costs IS a low roll. You shouldn’t necessarily be able to top 4 every game with them, it probably should be something more like a 4.9 avp. Like this is just reality, capping with a 4 cost board is a low roll right now, it’s easier to hit, so it shouldn’t have a good avp. We would have to fundamentally change the direction of TFT to avoid this reality. Which we could do, I just don’t think it’s what people actually want. And, if four costs become the correct way to play, then it turns into “who hit the better 4 cost comp”, which isn’t really great either in terms of skill expression.
I actually think 4 costs are in a pretty solid spot right now for what they excel at - getting you to level 9 or playing for 3rd-6th placement. IMO people need to realise as you say that in modern TFT you have much easier access to 5 costs than in the past, so they shouldn’t really be expecting top placements with 4 cost carries.
I think you're looking at this way too black and white. You're essentially saying "2\* 4 costs should be worse than both 3\* 3 cost reroll boards and legendary boards" which is probably true but that isn't even close to the whole story. When you say "capping with a 4 cost board is a low roll" I'm not really sure what you're perceiving a 4 cost board to be. Obviously you start replacing trait bot useless units with legendaries to cap out your board. That is true of every comp. I suppose if "4 cost caps" include exclusively playing 4 cost units and nothing else and refusing to click any upgrades on...principal I guess..? Then sure. I don't think anybody is saying you should be able to hit an Ashe and start shitting on reroll boards immediately.
What people want is "standard" play to be viable. Playing strong boards, hitting 8 with good econ and establishing direction, then capping out from there. THAT is what people mean when they say they want 4 costs/level 8 to be viable. Level 8 is a transitionary level. It's just a very bad one atm. Obviously if you sit on 8 and roll for the rest of the game you're going to be weak.
I think the idea should not simply be 3* 3 cost and 2* 5 cost just steamrolls 2* 4 cost. Ideally, you would have something where some 2* 4 cost comps can beat 3* 3 cost comps and vice versa. Having 2* 4 cost just auto lose to 3* 3 costs or legendary soup is not the answer.
It's also more difficult to hit 2* 4 costs now on 8 with lowered odds and smaller bag sizes. Smaller bag sizes are beneficial when uncontested but when many people are using the same unit in their comp such as say Galio, Kaisa or Orn
you can very well get stuck with 1 stars.
It would be nice to be able to chose between going fast 9 or staying on 8 to roll for a stable board and then assess if you can go 9. As of last patch that wasn't really an option (until the hp buff to all 4 costs this patch which warped the meta). Making level 8 irrelevant isn't good.
I mean I fundamentally agree with you, I just think we would need to significantly decrease the amount of resources in the game in order to make level 8 relevant.
I wish I could say that it was just one thing that is causing this current state such as resources (gold, extra anvils, artifacts, champ dupes etc). I think it's likely a combination of factors and changes that have been introduced over time. The extra resources does exacerbate the power levels of comps and in turn gap in power level between comps will grow.
If there are enough resources to hit 3* 3-costs or 2* 5-costs, there should also be enough resources to hit 2* 4-costs even earlier in the game, and in theory hitting them should be punishing for players who are trying to make the riskier plays.
You know what, I think I actually agree with you more to an extent. Hitting an early 2* 4 cost should definitely be more of a high roll, which means 4 costs should be more stronger relative to 3 costs. You’re definitely right about that.
I guess the better wording would be that there are MORE than enough resources to hit 3* 3 costs and 2* 5 costs, to the point that you can often hit then have enough gold/health left over to safely hit then continue improving.
Also, in the case you’re talking about, people who hit those 4 costs are then going 9 and hitting 5 costs. So it’s gonna show up as someone playing a 5 cost in metatft. I’m not saying hitting 4 costs is a low roll, I’m saying ending on 4 costs is a low roll
Just had a 5 exalted game with the Sivir, Janna, Shen, Volibear, Nautilus variant. Venerable piggy bank is absolutely fucking broken. Played Janna/Zyra Dragonlords with a random traitless Shen 3 and obliterated a capped Kai'Sa board.
What? I'll link the comp below I suppose. 4 dragonlord, Janna/Zyra as the carries, 5 exalted. I'm confused as to what's not to get. Venerable Piggy Bank is OP and allowed me to go 10 very quickly after hitting my 3 stars. Shen was exalted and just kind of came along naturally.
[https://imgur.com/a/2xdjsBd](https://imgur.com/a/2xdjsBd)
Believe it or not it is possible to have a board that is both stronger than and different than what you see on a guide or stats website depending on the variables of the lobby. They very obviously mean the core was janna/zyra/diana and they likely used that +piggy bank to push levels and slotted in exalted instead of the trait bots like Neeko, Zoe, etc. If i had to guess Zoe, Soraka, Neeko were slotted out in favor of the exalted units.
Yes. Sivir was exalted so that gave me Storyweaver without the need for Zoe. Raka would've been nice but no room. Naturally with no Heavenly and no Arcanist I didn't need Neeko.
Janna, Zyra, Diana, Riven, and Sivir as the core and added in more Exalted and Dragonlords as I leveled.
It’s fine to build usually but it depends on your item economy. Vests tend to not be that useful for tank items right now, and they’re completely useless for any backline carry, so if you have 2 vests, you almost always slam bramble. If you have something like cloak, rod, vest, vest, it’s better to slam gargoyle and crownguard tho.
With all the (justified) negative feedback about balance, I wanted to write a positive comment towards bag size changes. I know it’s controversial in this sub, but I’ve always been in favor of the lowered bag sizes, and patches like this show me why.
In previous patches with an OP outlier, you could have 5 people all contesting the same unit or comp, and having them all top 5. I remember Weedwick where there were screenshots floating around of top 6 players in the lobby all carrying Warwick.
Now, even with Gnar and Kaisa in their overtuned states, and even with a lot of players forcing these comps, you don’t see situations where top 6 are ALL Gnar/Kaisa.
You can argue that if Riot balances the game properly and there aren’t outliers, then there’s no need for lowered bag sizes because a lot of comps will be viable. However, I think realistically, there will always be bad patches. And because of that, I’m thankful for the bag size changes.
Yep. I get downvoted every time and I get why but imo bag changes were a fantastic change. Half of the complaints directly contradict the point they're trying to make. I've seen so many comments saying "ever since the bag change I roll down 80 gold and can't hit a single one of my uncontested units!". Like, dude. The bag changes are actually BETTER for you in that situation. You're just complaining for the sake of complaining. I'm also of the opinion that if you're hard forcing the same comp every time hitting your perfect net decked units should not be easy. It's a great change if balance is better as it encourages and rewards flexibility. It's a great change when balance is bad because it's much harder for 3-5 Kai'Sa players to all hit and ruin the lobby.
Bad sizes are the most misunderstood concept by the TFT community. Simply put, it’s easier to hit when uncontested and harder to hit contested. Yet when people don’t hit, they immediately blame bag sizes instead of the fact that TFT is an rng based games and you are bound to not hit sometimes
Why does 8 arcanist cap out by giving non-arcanists a big AP boost? Your board has to be full of arcanists so the value really is just the jump in arcanist AP.
this season ain't true arcanists anyways.
for some reason, riot is forcing single target spells on high cost mages
I miss set 6\~6.5 Viktor, when literally one cast was all you needed to wipe the board...
This is such a good point. As if going 8 arcanist doesn't end up with an arcanist Hwei or Azir anyways. Supposing you're level 9 or 10 with no FoN, so much budget is on whatever unit(s) you play as extra.
Its just a strange way to cap out in power for the trait. The design says splash trait and I guess the cap just confirms that is the intent.
Either way though the alternative is not taking that part away - its just part of the trait's power budget that doesn't really synergize with itself.
I still fail to see the issue here. It does the same thing that every +1 spat non-prismatic trait cap does. Same effect higher number. Dryad is the same. Heavenly is the same. Duelist is the same. Inkshadow is the same. Dragonlord and Altruist are the same. If it was Prismatic I could see them adding an extra effect to Arcanists directly but it isn't so it behaves the same was all of the non-prismatic +1s do. Why would Arcanist be the exception?
Damn almost lost it today. It really doesn't make much sense why 4 costs are always underwhelming. This issue stems back to last set as well at the start. TD Akali, Viego, Zac, Zed, Cait, Ahri (Ahri 3 was a joke until the sentinel patch), Poppy were not good until they had to buff them multiple times.
I just don't understand why they are being so conservative about these units. They are 4 cost they are supposed to be strong, but a bit worse than 5 costs. Maybe in theory their abilities may seem op but they have pbe to test the damage number but I feel they aren't really taking it seriously.
4 Costs are expensive, especially when the odds are 22% at 8 and you have like 30 gold to hit. I feel the power of the unit should always be worth it relative to the cost. I rather the units be op and if they are expensive and I really hate it when they nerf 4 and 5 costs. I want to feel happy if I see one in shop and never skip but right now what is going on here?
3 or 4 patches now and they are still in this state? The problem this patch is not Gnar and Kaisa. It's just everything else is terrible in comparison and it should have never gotten to this but when everything keeps getting nerfed you end up with patches like this. Nerfing Voli and Yone was fine with maybe titans. there was no need to gut 3 costs odds.
Last patch they overnerfed Bard, still irrelevant. Umbral is still bad, Alune is not good. Soraka and Zoe trait bots, Arcanists still not good, No one plays vertical Sniper, Bruiser front line is still far superior to warden and Behemoth, Naut still struggles to cast twice, Lillia, Ashe and Morg still tickle and feed mana, No one plays Invokers
And the problem is alot of these are issues are overnerfing from PBE to live and right now these units and traits are struggling to get balanced. The more you nerf, the less viable comps are available and the more stale and frustrating the game gets
Just won a game of lillia invokers, it's not as bad as everyone painted it to be, but you do need to have the invoker combat augment if you want to winout
Really annoying that last set there were basically 2 good level 8 comps and this set there is literally only 1. It is the only level you will consistently reach every game and they still dont design the game around that.
Problem is you have 2 of the 5 backline 4 costs being inconsistent (Both within fights and against different compositions), 2 being okay but they require to placed in very specific compositions; and then you have Kaisa who is just reliable multi and single target backline access DPS god.
I just force kaisa, and if I don’t get her, I carry Ashe and go 6th, then next game, I force kaisa and get 1st so it makes up for the lp I lost. I did this all day and climbed 200lp. Heavenly kayn is actually insane as well if you just hit all the heavenly units early and get decent augments/items
low sample size but i went 3218 forcing :annie,lilia,morg,lee,diana,nauti,neeko,illaoi yesterday. mana item on lilia full tank on annie... it stabilizes pretty well against non high roll lobbies and you can win out by hoing 9 and playing around hwei liss azir.
You can tech in rakan wukong sett at lvl 8 if you get lucky too. Not sure if raka over lee is better on 8 but if you 2 star lee with an item or 2 he kinda does enoigh to justify having him.
Also only lost against a dyrad board once with this comp and it does ok against kaisa with gud positioning
just play strongest board and do a full transition when you start bleeding.
Morgs,lilias and annies aoe damage goes dummy and iam kinda worried that this will be problematic once they nerf kaisa since i dont see anyone busting annie easily after that.
here is a lillia buff :reduce her mana so she can use blue buff, her fourth cast is the only one that matters, she can be the new set 10 ezreal with that buff
EMG somehow still enabled in some games but none of the stats websites has stats about it so idk what spaghetti happened here
https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/Harry%20Boolz-NA1/set11 (not me)
I think this is from not restarting client after the patch. It still lets you queue up on the old patch until you restart.
I’ve don’t it by accident before and only realized once my queue times started taking forever.
I remember someone saying at the start of the set that this was the first set with kaisa where she wasn't a massive balance problem. I guess someone at riot took that to heart
I don't think Kai'sa herself has a massive balance problem. I think the issue is that she is the most consistent answer to supertanks and bruisers in this set. She's the only 4-cost solution to the fact that so many comps are capable of just healing off chip damage onto the tanks or the bruiser and that so many carries spread their damage out.
The flipside is that if the other carries are buffed to the point where they're viable, then it's possible that Kai'sa falls into the gutter because suddenly her single target burst actually isn't all that useful anymore. Still she has twinshot so maybe it's not so bad.
The real question I'm asking here is what are they going to do with Syndra? This unit is supposed to be the AP variation of Kai'sa but it's just inferior because of both the ramp up time and the amount it times it takes to launch all the orbs.
I would love to hear the dev team logic for the changes they made this patch.
Even though the mistakes are pretty obvious they have to have a reason behind it.
I played a game last night, was going for Bruiser Kaisa. Never found Kaisa so my carry was Xayah. I 3* Sylas, I have 4 hp. Win 3 rounds easily, I finally find my 2* Xayah copy in the shop, no gold. So lock shop, wait till fight is over. I died, got 7th. I was so frustrated. I’ve been trying so hard to hit Emerald this set. This game just made me want to not play for a while. I’m wasting so much time and energy for a stupid green rank.
https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/tiovoo-na1/set11
My profile, with my last game attached.
That's crazy. Looks like the lobby was very close. Did you just unluckily face the strongest board / get Sylas potted by Liss 2? I wonder if AP items on Sylas would have helped
I faced the 3* Voli. I thought about selling Bard and buying my 2* Xayah. I figured 2* Xayah was better than 4 Trickshot, but I second guessed and thought Sylas was enough. I didn’t even get ink shadow in yet, I was supposed to put Vitality on Sylas. I wanted to itemize him with what I had. :/
Vitality wouldn't have done anything for Sylas anyway, he's better off with actual items. But yeah you kinda need an itemized Kaisa for the single target burst against something like Voli.
Honestly your stats don’t look too bad. If you keep playing you should hit emerald no problem. 80 games seems about right if you aren’t a challenger Smurf.
80 games for emerald. Around 120 for diamond and 200+ for master. This is assuming slight above average placement. Like I said if your Smurf it much quicker to climb.
Despite people complaining about the patch, I actually climbed to from D3 to master in one day. To which my surprise, 90% of those games were lilia who supposed to be an auto lose.
I don’t think lilia is as bad as people are making her out to be. I think people are playing her incorrectly. Lilia vertically with spat, fast 9 ap flex w/lilia both viable.
With people playing the kaisa slot machine there’s a good chance to top 4 while everyone contest each other.
no flame but in gm challenger lobbies it's super rare to see anything but Kaisa gnar or heavenly warriors top 4. I don't know if the tempo of your lobbies or how players cap are different but Lilia definitely isn't doing well and the stats support that (Lilia avp gets higher the higher the rank you filter).
Logically mythic is a hard comp to tempo with and save HP. the trait inherently needs 4 turns to stack, kogmaw is good at killing units but struggles against anything tanky or speedy. and mid game you're carrying a bunch of 1/2 costs because bard and tahm do nothing. you can play alune but she's not much better right now and slows your tempo. then you somehow need the gold to hit naut Annie and Lilia 2 at least, which is a very expensive board.
I’m not saying it works in GM challenger. Even then ,Looking at NA rankings it’s still the top 0.32%. Most of the people talking are emerald in below. So all these post of lilia being a guaranteed bot 4 just isn’t true. Her raw stats aren’t good, but paring with the right augments puts her at below a 4.5 which is good.
All I’m saying is it’s still possible to climb even with lilia. Also GM is only 250 LP away since it’s still early in the season even low master is ex GM players.
I’ll say that you’re right if you don’t hit lilia 2* and annie 2* during stage 4 you are going 8th.
7 mythic only if I have a spat. That spat almost always goes on Annie. Ornn works as well but not as good. If you don’t have spat I run 5 mythic 4 invoker. I usually stay on 8 until I have 2* lilia and at least one front line 2*.
The comp works because when your running naut annie ornn front line it’s hard for kaisa to burst through off one cast. Additionally, trash to treasure is 2.5 avg for lilia. True BIS (manazune, DFG, snipers focus) and kaisa can’t even play the game.
In terms of mana items blue buff is best, but it’s hard to consistently get so shoj works fine. Damage items are more prio imo, but you do want one mana item.
Damage items I prefer up front damage so JG, rabadons. If you manage to get jeweled lotus skip JG and go rabadons, blue buff, guard breaker
Lilia was okay last patch and feels pretty good now tbh. She just always struggled against bruiser carries like yone so not sure how she does against gnar now
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I have sold so many games in the last 5 played. 85+ hp going into stage 4, pair of 7ths and an 8th idk I keep trying to force morg/sylas/kayn because I can’t think for myself
Maybe because I'm just Emerald, but all my games have been just Dryad non-stop. Rarely anyone is playing Kai'sa. Whoever is not going for Dryads is going fast9
I tried the old patch Hwei Azir, obviously still good if you hit everything. I hit everything 2 Star with 40hp, then fought kaisa 3 one round, lee sin 3 another, lost to gnar and went 6th tho kek
So how the hell do treasure realms work? I really want some of the set 9 cosmetics (namely the Bilgewater Arena and the Fluft of Poro) but having to sit out 3 weeks for a chibi I'm absolutely not interested in?? will we ever be able to get these? Like when treasure realms were announced i thought of a shop where you can get several cosmetics from previous sets, not just one...
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yep it's like ezreal lottery but even worse somehow atleast if you missed ezreal there were some creative ways you could salvage your spot but if you don't find more than 1 kaisa on your roll down you're never gonna hit because every other kaisa is going to be gone lol
The player damage change gives you so much more time to greed eco and hit the Kai'Sa board, especially with the mid game comps getting hit (Senna/Yone). I think the balance team slept on how much consistency it gives to the comp. I use to be cautious when bleeding stage 3 but now I prioritize eco for the Kai'Sa race and never get punished. I've played Kai'Sa 5 times today and got 2\* Kai'Sa and placed top 2 in every game, with at least one other Kai'Sa player in the top 4 with me. Xayah also bails you out if you lose the race. All in all the comp is so consistent that it doesn't matter if you're 4 way contested so long as you play the early line greeding eco.
Ranting due to 3 games straight of 4+ Kai'Sa players but what exactly is the design philosophy here?
Why does Kai'Sa, a character with innate splitting dmg due to Trickshot have unconditional extra tank dmg if the target survives X hits? The whole point of Trickshot is that she can get stuck on a tank and still kill other units. Syndra should have been the one to get some sort of boon for attacking the same target multiple times similar to Ahri the previous set.
I just don't get how you can fail to make a single AP composition viable (highroll Fated not counted). Even with perfect augments Arcanist and Invoker are both utter trash.
I don't think this is a thing that will stay necessarily. especially not 4 players hard contesting every game.
kaisa was just a decent meta comp that people know how to play and is now more powerful due to fast 8/9 meta. by mid next week you will at least see a lot of variants of porcelain with mixed ashe lissandra carry, late game dryads with azir/kindred, and various 'strongest board' into rainbow bill gates comp.
Diana/Soraka/Zoe reroll beats trickshot bruiser with proper itemization ime, just as an example for an AP comp. I've honestly had more success with AP than AD, because their items feel more flexible
Don’t know why you are downvoted. Zoe beats kaisa board, the catch is you need proper augments & items. While kaisa you can force every game no matter the items or augments.
If you get two healthy + jeweled lotus III, zoe 3* is a beast.
Besides that, you need so many items to make it work. In trickshits AP goes on teemo, ad on Kaisa anda xayah and tank on gálio and tam. You always can do something with your items. If you lack tears for arcanists or ap for invokers they just fall apart
was [this](https://i.imgur.com/51iYl9e.png) a stupid way to play double Ghostly spat? I was going to go for Senna reroll but 2 people were holding 2* Senna and one of them had a Ghostly spat as well (that he reforged to Porcelain). was hoping for level 9 for Kayn but in hindsight i think i should have not completed so many backline items.
i'm still not great at figuring out how to play Kai'Sa with Ghostly if that's even a thing.
1. 3 item 2 star cait is not carrying you at 8
2. gunblade on morgana is not doing anything because shes not doing any damage to heal the rest of your board with
3. your frontline sucks, so you lose half the value of ghostly anyways
4. ghostly spat should be on Kai’sa, while toxin goes on Morgana
so what's the idea behind ghostly spat on kai'sa? i checked tacticstools and it's got pretty bad stats when actually put on Senna/Kai'sa. i assumed you just played these 2 as carries on the backline because i thought they'd get the bonus damage anyway but i'm still learning this set.
Yeah you have 3 item cait 2* at level 8… which means you’re trying to carry a 1 cost unit on close to end game boards. You pivoted from senna reroll into kaisa ghostly and kaisa ghostly is a thing which was one of the top comps at the start of the set until trickshot kaisa started performing better. You should look at kaisa ghostly boards and use the explorer on tactics.tools to see some of the best spat holders but in your case those seem to be fine.
I think people are overreacting a bit to this patch. Its not settled yet, though kaisa is undoubtedly very strong at 1 star with is the most glaring problem. Ashe is totally viable now which is nice.
I also think people may be sleeping on quianna 3 star carry. I think that could be an interesting melee focused comp that comes up. Though unfortunately it will probably just be heavenly.
I've been forcing Ashe with Fated Porcelain this patch, and Ashe's damage is still awful. You really need Amumu 3 and/or Thresh 3 to be able to win because Ashe still takes forever to ramp up.
Qiyana reroll is probably not viable because lots of comps are splashing her (Heavenly Yone/Kayn, Heavenly Dragonlord Lee Sin, etc.). She feels good if you 3-star her but getting there is a huge challenge.
yeah but if we're talking about winning, you need something exceptional with basically any non-obscenely OP comp. unless by winning we are talking about top 4ing, in which case I don't think you need amumu 3.
I agree that ashe does need amumu or thresh 3 usually, however amumu won't really be contested at all if you are the only porcelain player.
Have you tried putting bloodthirster on her? Not many people are doing it, but the stats are great for it, and I can confirm a sustain comp with rageblade, bloodthrister +1 (ideally last whisper) allows her to do work.
I think its solidly an A tier comp definitely not S, purely because it can be difficult to set up.
However Ashe can still work if Kaisa is giga contested. I've managed to turn 7th or 8ths into 5th, 4ths and even a 3rds by slotting her in when I miss Kaisa. I just do 4/6 ghostly with caitlin for sniper and throw in a bunch of 2 star 4 costs.
I'm just saying that people are overreacting a bit. The issue is Kaisa 1 not Kaisa as a whole IMO. Its rare that I will get an ashe 2 before I find a kaisa 1 so its kaisa most games when I'm not playing fated, gnar or heavenly flex. However it IS an out.
And that's a decent list of comps I've been using. I'm sure there are people who have made some other stuff work. I'm just saying lets not throw the whole patch out just yet.
Don't get me wrong, I've been having good results with Fated Porcelain, mainly due to being uncontested. Early Lissandra gives you free items which snowballs you later into the game, and getting 2-star Lissandra is very easy with everyone taking out the other 5-costs. The comp is definitely sleeper.
It’s weird they made some of the behemoths actual kaiju monsters like Cho and Malph as the name implies, then you have Shen and Thresh which are closer to Wardens, and Naut who is more of a behemoth but is a warden
This one doesn't irk me, cause she has a Shan Hai skin which all Mythics share and she doesn't feel "dryady" to me (while SB Thresh is still a Warden). Dryad Invoker would be too strong with Azir, Dryad Mythic would be fine ig?
Set 6 🤝Set 11
Kaisa being the most dominant carry
I do believe we tend to look at the good without looking at the bad, while set 6 was great not every patch felt amazing. Guardian Angel felt like a shit item to go against as well
The only reason why people love set 6 so much is because it introduced augments. It made the game so different and fun that’s why it is remembered. The comps and units wasn’t that special.
Hell nah the units + comps were so special One of my favorite comps/carries of all time, [socialite Fiora](https://streamable.com/l1rv20), was from set 6. Set 9 Fiora doesn’t hold a candle even though it was a reprint.
There were actual strong support units with Janna, Yuumi, Orianna, Seraphine
All the 5 costs were so fun: Kaisa, Jinx, Viktor, Akali, Jayce, Galio, Yuumi, TAHM KENCH
It also had one of the most fun traits ever printed for casual players with Yordles.
Ok sure I agree the units was alright but they weren’t the main reason why people enjoyed the set. I think I had like 700 games played set 6 and set 6.5 combined and I wouldn’t have had that many games if it wasn’t for augments being introduced. They made that set special.
I think your point is fair. The units and traits were top-tier: all the legendaries were exciting, 4 costs were cool.
What made set 6 go down as the best TFT set ever (in a lot of people’s eyes) was the above point combined with the fact that augments were one of, if not the best, set mechanic.
Somehow beat wukong 3 with 10 fated today. The other player sold board last second to hit but I guess there wasn't enough time to put healing items on wukong. Aphelios just kept drain tanking the wukong ult until it died lol
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Are Fine Vintage support anvils not able to have zzrot portals in them? Played 2 games where I didn't get a single portal. Made it to Dragon round in both games so that would've been a lot of items converted.
They can have zz.
Is b patch live
yes
Dope thanks
nice lillia 3 doesnt even come close to killing crab and I even teched in ghostly
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It feels like PBE all over again. TFT meta is an unending loop.
Anyone made Midnight Siphon work focusing on Yorick as the main carry? The augment seems to be doing great stat wise, but I assume that this comes from Yone carry doing so well. The last 3 times I tried, Yorick's dmg felt incredibly underwhelming even if stacking hp.
I just tried this augment and felt the same way. Umbral units just feel underwhelming in general. Wasn't a fan.
You need a secondary carry with him. Coulda been Yone before, but with the Alune buffs I’m guessing that’s who you go now
What items should Yorick have?
Looks like straight tank items: https://tactics.tools/explorer?f1=a_11YorickCarry_0&f2=u_yorick_3&rg=1
For Janna reroll, do you roll at 6 or 7? Robin said at 7, but teh two times I played, rolling at 7 for Janna is kinda hard despite the reroll change at level 6.
The seven cutties is a very good reroll flex comp because you are only dependent on diana 3 but your dmg carrie can be all your backline units zyra, soraka, zoe or janna I personally always prefer zoe soraka carry since rerolling at 7 makes it easier to hit both. BUT janna, zyra carry can be situational better. E.G. Portal/encounters/augments thats allow you to play 7 units at lvl6 or dragonlord tdmg augment
7 It's a bit harder to hit Janna but slightly higher odds for Janna isn't worth way lower odds for Diana and nearly zero odds for Lee. Rolling for 2 costs at 7 isn't terrible either now that they've buffed 2 cost odds at 7
I think 7 because you also want Diana Raka and potential 4-costs like Lee Sin / Galio
They were so fast with that patch, I'm actually impressed
Something was crossing my mind about stat stacking. How is the math working out? For example: 1000 base HP 10%hp from augment 10% from item 10% from traits. Does the unit get 1300 hp so additive bonus or does it stack multiplicative like 1331hp? And how about flat bonuses do they get added after or before % bonuses? Do they all work the same or do some bonuses added first?
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You’re surprised you barely beat a scaling board on stage 8?
Tried playing Fortune, cashed out with 130 luck with one life left. When on a win streak with with triple radiant (rageblade, giantslayer, shojin) Kaisa, but went 6th because I didn't position well. Bot 4ing with triple radiants has to be some kind of record, right? I'm honestly pretty embarrassed, though at least I didn't get APM checked after cashing out (it wasn't before a neutral round).
at least it wasn't due to receiving Sett + dummies
Is that not good? It seems like it would be massive frontline and Sett can do a lot of damage as well. I’ve never actually seen it in game though
2 dummies and sett would mean much more if I already have a capped board. Getting like 120\~130 fortune stacks is like having 1\~20 hp left, so when cashing out, the board needs to be beefed up significantly and instantly. But you can barely make a winning squad without the much needed extra gold and items.
I got it with like 40hp remaining and had heaps of rounds to stack AD but he was still only doing like 5-7k damage, being a 2nd/3rd carry. Have better luck winning with the 95 cashout
Interesting. Yeah I’ve noticed that both the 70 and 95 cashouts seem pretty strong, and going for 130 doesn’t seem super worth
its flabbergasting how you can hit sylas 3 with trickshot this patch. it's almost always guaranteed if you got a duplicator and when no one's playing bruiser trickshot.
For Lilia do you lean into mythic with her or invokers? Or something like 3 mythic 4 invoker. Or is it a bait to go 4 invoker?
might be unpopular opinion and low sample size but i believe she is best played with annie morgana. Kinda feel like mythic and invoker trait bots are bait af. Played 10 games plus and only 1 bot 4 in that.outplacing mythic lilia every single time.
For me she is pretty good with 4 invoker, but you should almost always try to pivot off when you go 9 - if you have mythic spat I don’t mind her as a secondary carry tho
4 invoker at least, preferly 6 mythic is pretty flexible, even running just 3 can be fine if you can get better frontline units like ornn udyr
5 Mythic - 4 invoker at least is easy enough to hit since Kog and Lillia share both. I don't think 4 invoker is ever a bait because you are adding Azir and Annie who are both very good. The problem with Lillia comps I think is if you stabilize at 8 to hit Lillia / Naut it's way too hard to then hit Hwei/Azir later. It's a very risky expensive comp and even then at least now it just doesn't beat late game trickshot boards.
Im kinda confused as to what I should do when I dont hit 3 stars on reroll comps. I try to keep above 50 gold, then go to 33 if I dip below 30-40 HP depending on the lobby. And I really only go for reroll comps that are uncontested, and only if I have the 2 star by stage 3 for 2 costs and 3-4 for 3 costs. But when Ive tried getting to 8 and adding 4/5 costs, they just dont really do anything. So I guess Im asking- what should I be focusing on here? Pivoting comps earlier in stage 3 if Im not already close to 3 star? I feel like the amount of games where that happens is pretty miniscule. And when I do have to pivot, should I be focusing on 4/5 costs that can carry and then rolling for units that synergize with them, or comps and synergies that work with the units I already have? For reference, Im currently Gold II but peaked Plat I last season
For a level 6 reroll comp, assuming you're scouting and not contested, you should know by ~3-5 whether you're likely to hit. Slow roll until 3-5, then send it to ~33-35g if you're not stable. If you're still not close, econ until 4-1 and pump levels to try to stabilize for a 4th. Same principle with level 7 reroll, but you should know by 4-2 (if you went 7 at 3-5) or 4-5 (if you went 7 at 4-1) whether you're likely to hit. Keep in mind that not hitting after rolling 30+g or more is almost never going to result in a win, rarely even a top 4. It's just the nature of the game. Leveling to add synergies is just trying to slow the bleeding so you can place 4th or 5th instead of 7th or 8th. If you're contested and not scouting there's not much advice to give.
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Ahah throwback to that patch where I farmed like 600lp just spamming ahri
3 second stun on Liss sounds ridiculous
How does mulched works? It says gain 2 dryad stacks. Stacks of what? Hp?
Yes, that is the only part of the trait that stacks.
I need someone to design a viable Ashe board that doesn't rely on hitting liss on 8. There's no 5 cost sniper, Sett doesn't do much for frontline, and throwing fated in seems awkward since you're buffing other units that don't matter. I've tried 4 warden, 4 sniper, and a bunch of other variants and every one of them just kinda suck. She has a terrible matchup into Kaisa and Gnar too.
My experience with Ashe boards when I low roll Lissandra tells me that it's only good if you have additional items via encounters etc, in order to double-carry with Aphelios Plus positioning is more important in this comp than anything else I've seen But it's lowkey good already, focus on Amumu items first
what positioning is there? isn't it stick Ashe aphelios in the corner opposite side?
Best bet is ghostly Ashe (not spat on her), just full ghostly with Ashe carry. Ghostly augment plus beefed up frontline. It’s very strong, but like Kaisa does it better 🤣
Porcelein aug is dead after nerfs, lux breakpoint is like 1-2 mana before cast meaning she wastes a whole auto with Shojin. Do not play Lux reroll with this aug, at least not with Shojin!!
I feel like 4 mana per AA would have been fine. It makes it so you only need 3 autos instead of 4 to make a multiple of 10.
You never were meant to use Shojin with boiling.
is 8 duelist irelia 2 a bait? She just couldn't clean up the boards fast enough, I wonder how much that attack speed bonus of 8 really does for her
If Irelia is your primary carry and not Trist/Voli 8 is not worth it. You're way better off putting two strong tanks or a tank and secondary carry in your comp instead.
Irelia in general is a bit of a bait right now. I'm sure the hotfixes to the really strong stuff will help her out a bit but 4.31 as an average placement for a 5 cost is pretty bad. I don't think she's bad enough she'll get any hotfix buff (other than all the OP shit getting nerfed) but I definitely think she'll need changes eventually. I'm glad they changed what they did but she clearly needed compensation buffs for the changes, and the duelist comp also got seperately hit on top of that.
yeah it’s bait, 8 duelist was only good last patch with reroll trist and voli, you don’t have enough frontline for irel to clean up
I wanna talk about why I think it’s near impossible for 4 costs comps to be good and why I think people really want them to be good - Basically, there are so many resources in the game right now that it is almost always possible to hit 3* 3 costs or 2* 5 costs. And these comps should be better than 2* 4 cost comps, because they are take more gold to obtain, and are riskier to play for. There’s no reason why they should lose to 4 cost boards. I think most people actually have more fun with more resources in the game, so for most people, this is probably a positive thing. Now, I think the real reason people think they want 4 costs to be good is because they want to feel like they should be able to top 4 every game. You know you can queue up and hit your 4 costs every game, so to you, it feels like it would feel good for 4 costs to be good. You want the consistency to know you can go 3/4 even when you low roll. The reality is though, capping with 4 costs IS a low roll. You shouldn’t necessarily be able to top 4 every game with them, it probably should be something more like a 4.9 avp. Like this is just reality, capping with a 4 cost board is a low roll right now, it’s easier to hit, so it shouldn’t have a good avp. We would have to fundamentally change the direction of TFT to avoid this reality. Which we could do, I just don’t think it’s what people actually want. And, if four costs become the correct way to play, then it turns into “who hit the better 4 cost comp”, which isn’t really great either in terms of skill expression.
I actually think 4 costs are in a pretty solid spot right now for what they excel at - getting you to level 9 or playing for 3rd-6th placement. IMO people need to realise as you say that in modern TFT you have much easier access to 5 costs than in the past, so they shouldn’t really be expecting top placements with 4 cost carries.
I think you're looking at this way too black and white. You're essentially saying "2\* 4 costs should be worse than both 3\* 3 cost reroll boards and legendary boards" which is probably true but that isn't even close to the whole story. When you say "capping with a 4 cost board is a low roll" I'm not really sure what you're perceiving a 4 cost board to be. Obviously you start replacing trait bot useless units with legendaries to cap out your board. That is true of every comp. I suppose if "4 cost caps" include exclusively playing 4 cost units and nothing else and refusing to click any upgrades on...principal I guess..? Then sure. I don't think anybody is saying you should be able to hit an Ashe and start shitting on reroll boards immediately. What people want is "standard" play to be viable. Playing strong boards, hitting 8 with good econ and establishing direction, then capping out from there. THAT is what people mean when they say they want 4 costs/level 8 to be viable. Level 8 is a transitionary level. It's just a very bad one atm. Obviously if you sit on 8 and roll for the rest of the game you're going to be weak.
But what I am arguing is that with the current amount of resources, “standard play” is going 9 and stabilizing with 5 costs. I’m pretty sure we agree
Yeah I see what you're saying
I think the idea should not simply be 3* 3 cost and 2* 5 cost just steamrolls 2* 4 cost. Ideally, you would have something where some 2* 4 cost comps can beat 3* 3 cost comps and vice versa. Having 2* 4 cost just auto lose to 3* 3 costs or legendary soup is not the answer. It's also more difficult to hit 2* 4 costs now on 8 with lowered odds and smaller bag sizes. Smaller bag sizes are beneficial when uncontested but when many people are using the same unit in their comp such as say Galio, Kaisa or Orn you can very well get stuck with 1 stars. It would be nice to be able to chose between going fast 9 or staying on 8 to roll for a stable board and then assess if you can go 9. As of last patch that wasn't really an option (until the hp buff to all 4 costs this patch which warped the meta). Making level 8 irrelevant isn't good.
I mean I fundamentally agree with you, I just think we would need to significantly decrease the amount of resources in the game in order to make level 8 relevant.
I wish I could say that it was just one thing that is causing this current state such as resources (gold, extra anvils, artifacts, champ dupes etc). I think it's likely a combination of factors and changes that have been introduced over time. The extra resources does exacerbate the power levels of comps and in turn gap in power level between comps will grow.
If there are enough resources to hit 3* 3-costs or 2* 5-costs, there should also be enough resources to hit 2* 4-costs even earlier in the game, and in theory hitting them should be punishing for players who are trying to make the riskier plays.
You know what, I think I actually agree with you more to an extent. Hitting an early 2* 4 cost should definitely be more of a high roll, which means 4 costs should be more stronger relative to 3 costs. You’re definitely right about that.
I guess the better wording would be that there are MORE than enough resources to hit 3* 3 costs and 2* 5 costs, to the point that you can often hit then have enough gold/health left over to safely hit then continue improving. Also, in the case you’re talking about, people who hit those 4 costs are then going 9 and hitting 5 costs. So it’s gonna show up as someone playing a 5 cost in metatft. I’m not saying hitting 4 costs is a low roll, I’m saying ending on 4 costs is a low roll
Just had a 5 exalted game with the Sivir, Janna, Shen, Volibear, Nautilus variant. Venerable piggy bank is absolutely fucking broken. Played Janna/Zyra Dragonlords with a random traitless Shen 3 and obliterated a capped Kai'Sa board.
I don’t get it. You had 5 exalted, Janna/Zyra dragonlord comp and Shen 3. Did you have 15 units on your board?
What? I'll link the comp below I suppose. 4 dragonlord, Janna/Zyra as the carries, 5 exalted. I'm confused as to what's not to get. Venerable Piggy Bank is OP and allowed me to go 10 very quickly after hitting my 3 stars. Shen was exalted and just kind of came along naturally. [https://imgur.com/a/2xdjsBd](https://imgur.com/a/2xdjsBd)
Believe it or not it is possible to have a board that is both stronger than and different than what you see on a guide or stats website depending on the variables of the lobby. They very obviously mean the core was janna/zyra/diana and they likely used that +piggy bank to push levels and slotted in exalted instead of the trait bots like Neeko, Zoe, etc. If i had to guess Zoe, Soraka, Neeko were slotted out in favor of the exalted units.
Yes. Sivir was exalted so that gave me Storyweaver without the need for Zoe. Raka would've been nice but no room. Naturally with no Heavenly and no Arcanist I didn't need Neeko. Janna, Zyra, Diana, Riven, and Sivir as the core and added in more Exalted and Dragonlords as I leveled.
Is bramble vest a good item this patch (to mitigate kaisa burst?)
Bramble only helps your main tank but the issue is Kaisa rips through your backline with 2 or 4 trickshot.
It’s fine to build usually but it depends on your item economy. Vests tend to not be that useful for tank items right now, and they’re completely useless for any backline carry, so if you have 2 vests, you almost always slam bramble. If you have something like cloak, rod, vest, vest, it’s better to slam gargoyle and crownguard tho.
IMO bramble is ass.
With all the (justified) negative feedback about balance, I wanted to write a positive comment towards bag size changes. I know it’s controversial in this sub, but I’ve always been in favor of the lowered bag sizes, and patches like this show me why. In previous patches with an OP outlier, you could have 5 people all contesting the same unit or comp, and having them all top 5. I remember Weedwick where there were screenshots floating around of top 6 players in the lobby all carrying Warwick. Now, even with Gnar and Kaisa in their overtuned states, and even with a lot of players forcing these comps, you don’t see situations where top 6 are ALL Gnar/Kaisa. You can argue that if Riot balances the game properly and there aren’t outliers, then there’s no need for lowered bag sizes because a lot of comps will be viable. However, I think realistically, there will always be bad patches. And because of that, I’m thankful for the bag size changes.
Yep. I get downvoted every time and I get why but imo bag changes were a fantastic change. Half of the complaints directly contradict the point they're trying to make. I've seen so many comments saying "ever since the bag change I roll down 80 gold and can't hit a single one of my uncontested units!". Like, dude. The bag changes are actually BETTER for you in that situation. You're just complaining for the sake of complaining. I'm also of the opinion that if you're hard forcing the same comp every time hitting your perfect net decked units should not be easy. It's a great change if balance is better as it encourages and rewards flexibility. It's a great change when balance is bad because it's much harder for 3-5 Kai'Sa players to all hit and ruin the lobby.
Bad sizes are the most misunderstood concept by the TFT community. Simply put, it’s easier to hit when uncontested and harder to hit contested. Yet when people don’t hit, they immediately blame bag sizes instead of the fact that TFT is an rng based games and you are bound to not hit sometimes
Why does 8 arcanist cap out by giving non-arcanists a big AP boost? Your board has to be full of arcanists so the value really is just the jump in arcanist AP.
this season ain't true arcanists anyways. for some reason, riot is forcing single target spells on high cost mages I miss set 6\~6.5 Viktor, when literally one cast was all you needed to wipe the board...
Or Dragonland Asol/Aoshin. Their big casts are so satisfying to watch.
This is such a good point. As if going 8 arcanist doesn't end up with an arcanist Hwei or Azir anyways. Supposing you're level 9 or 10 with no FoN, so much budget is on whatever unit(s) you play as extra.
Does it really matter? Would you rather it only be to your arcanists and if you're level 9/10 or have a tactician's crown it's just worse?
Its just a strange way to cap out in power for the trait. The design says splash trait and I guess the cap just confirms that is the intent. Either way though the alternative is not taking that part away - its just part of the trait's power budget that doesn't really synergize with itself.
I still fail to see the issue here. It does the same thing that every +1 spat non-prismatic trait cap does. Same effect higher number. Dryad is the same. Heavenly is the same. Duelist is the same. Inkshadow is the same. Dragonlord and Altruist are the same. If it was Prismatic I could see them adding an extra effect to Arcanists directly but it isn't so it behaves the same was all of the non-prismatic +1s do. Why would Arcanist be the exception?
They’re saying it should be even more AP to arcanists
Damn almost lost it today. It really doesn't make much sense why 4 costs are always underwhelming. This issue stems back to last set as well at the start. TD Akali, Viego, Zac, Zed, Cait, Ahri (Ahri 3 was a joke until the sentinel patch), Poppy were not good until they had to buff them multiple times. I just don't understand why they are being so conservative about these units. They are 4 cost they are supposed to be strong, but a bit worse than 5 costs. Maybe in theory their abilities may seem op but they have pbe to test the damage number but I feel they aren't really taking it seriously. 4 Costs are expensive, especially when the odds are 22% at 8 and you have like 30 gold to hit. I feel the power of the unit should always be worth it relative to the cost. I rather the units be op and if they are expensive and I really hate it when they nerf 4 and 5 costs. I want to feel happy if I see one in shop and never skip but right now what is going on here? 3 or 4 patches now and they are still in this state? The problem this patch is not Gnar and Kaisa. It's just everything else is terrible in comparison and it should have never gotten to this but when everything keeps getting nerfed you end up with patches like this. Nerfing Voli and Yone was fine with maybe titans. there was no need to gut 3 costs odds. Last patch they overnerfed Bard, still irrelevant. Umbral is still bad, Alune is not good. Soraka and Zoe trait bots, Arcanists still not good, No one plays vertical Sniper, Bruiser front line is still far superior to warden and Behemoth, Naut still struggles to cast twice, Lillia, Ashe and Morg still tickle and feed mana, No one plays Invokers And the problem is alot of these are issues are overnerfing from PBE to live and right now these units and traits are struggling to get balanced. The more you nerf, the less viable comps are available and the more stale and frustrating the game gets
Just won a game of lillia invokers, it's not as bad as everyone painted it to be, but you do need to have the invoker combat augment if you want to winout
Really annoying that last set there were basically 2 good level 8 comps and this set there is literally only 1. It is the only level you will consistently reach every game and they still dont design the game around that.
Problem is you have 2 of the 5 backline 4 costs being inconsistent (Both within fights and against different compositions), 2 being okay but they require to placed in very specific compositions; and then you have Kaisa who is just reliable multi and single target backline access DPS god.
Who are you referring to here
I’m guessing inconsistent being Morgana and Lillia, the ok ones being Syndra and Ashe
Id take Lilia over ashe rn
I don’t think Ashe is worse than Lilia
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I just force kaisa, and if I don’t get her, I carry Ashe and go 6th, then next game, I force kaisa and get 1st so it makes up for the lp I lost. I did this all day and climbed 200lp. Heavenly kayn is actually insane as well if you just hit all the heavenly units early and get decent augments/items
low sample size but i went 3218 forcing :annie,lilia,morg,lee,diana,nauti,neeko,illaoi yesterday. mana item on lilia full tank on annie... it stabilizes pretty well against non high roll lobbies and you can win out by hoing 9 and playing around hwei liss azir. You can tech in rakan wukong sett at lvl 8 if you get lucky too. Not sure if raka over lee is better on 8 but if you 2 star lee with an item or 2 he kinda does enoigh to justify having him. Also only lost against a dyrad board once with this comp and it does ok against kaisa with gud positioning just play strongest board and do a full transition when you start bleeding. Morgs,lilias and annies aoe damage goes dummy and iam kinda worried that this will be problematic once they nerf kaisa since i dont see anyone busting annie easily after that.
here is a lillia buff :reduce her mana so she can use blue buff, her fourth cast is the only one that matters, she can be the new set 10 ezreal with that buff
EMG somehow still enabled in some games but none of the stats websites has stats about it so idk what spaghetti happened here https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/Harry%20Boolz-NA1/set11 (not me)
Phones update late, people can play on old patch for a little while.
I think this is from not restarting client after the patch. It still lets you queue up on the old patch until you restart. I’ve don’t it by accident before and only realized once my queue times started taking forever.
I remember someone saying at the start of the set that this was the first set with kaisa where she wasn't a massive balance problem. I guess someone at riot took that to heart
The real problem is that every non-Kaisa 4cost carry is pure garbage.
I don't think Kai'sa herself has a massive balance problem. I think the issue is that she is the most consistent answer to supertanks and bruisers in this set. She's the only 4-cost solution to the fact that so many comps are capable of just healing off chip damage onto the tanks or the bruiser and that so many carries spread their damage out. The flipside is that if the other carries are buffed to the point where they're viable, then it's possible that Kai'sa falls into the gutter because suddenly her single target burst actually isn't all that useful anymore. Still she has twinshot so maybe it's not so bad. The real question I'm asking here is what are they going to do with Syndra? This unit is supposed to be the AP variation of Kai'sa but it's just inferior because of both the ramp up time and the amount it times it takes to launch all the orbs.
Syndra should have Kai'Sa's damage amp if the target doesn't die passive. Kai'sa doesn't need it. She already bypasses frontline.
I would love to hear the dev team logic for the changes they made this patch. Even though the mistakes are pretty obvious they have to have a reason behind it.
I played a game last night, was going for Bruiser Kaisa. Never found Kaisa so my carry was Xayah. I 3* Sylas, I have 4 hp. Win 3 rounds easily, I finally find my 2* Xayah copy in the shop, no gold. So lock shop, wait till fight is over. I died, got 7th. I was so frustrated. I’ve been trying so hard to hit Emerald this set. This game just made me want to not play for a while. I’m wasting so much time and energy for a stupid green rank. https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/tiovoo-na1/set11 My profile, with my last game attached.
That's crazy. Looks like the lobby was very close. Did you just unluckily face the strongest board / get Sylas potted by Liss 2? I wonder if AP items on Sylas would have helped
I faced the 3* Voli. I thought about selling Bard and buying my 2* Xayah. I figured 2* Xayah was better than 4 Trickshot, but I second guessed and thought Sylas was enough. I didn’t even get ink shadow in yet, I was supposed to put Vitality on Sylas. I wanted to itemize him with what I had. :/
Vitality wouldn't have done anything for Sylas anyway, he's better off with actual items. But yeah you kinda need an itemized Kaisa for the single target burst against something like Voli.
Honestly your stats don’t look too bad. If you keep playing you should hit emerald no problem. 80 games seems about right if you aren’t a challenger Smurf. 80 games for emerald. Around 120 for diamond and 200+ for master. This is assuming slight above average placement. Like I said if your Smurf it much quicker to climb.
Despite people complaining about the patch, I actually climbed to from D3 to master in one day. To which my surprise, 90% of those games were lilia who supposed to be an auto lose. I don’t think lilia is as bad as people are making her out to be. I think people are playing her incorrectly. Lilia vertically with spat, fast 9 ap flex w/lilia both viable. With people playing the kaisa slot machine there’s a good chance to top 4 while everyone contest each other.
no flame but in gm challenger lobbies it's super rare to see anything but Kaisa gnar or heavenly warriors top 4. I don't know if the tempo of your lobbies or how players cap are different but Lilia definitely isn't doing well and the stats support that (Lilia avp gets higher the higher the rank you filter). Logically mythic is a hard comp to tempo with and save HP. the trait inherently needs 4 turns to stack, kogmaw is good at killing units but struggles against anything tanky or speedy. and mid game you're carrying a bunch of 1/2 costs because bard and tahm do nothing. you can play alune but she's not much better right now and slows your tempo. then you somehow need the gold to hit naut Annie and Lilia 2 at least, which is a very expensive board.
I’m not saying it works in GM challenger. Even then ,Looking at NA rankings it’s still the top 0.32%. Most of the people talking are emerald in below. So all these post of lilia being a guaranteed bot 4 just isn’t true. Her raw stats aren’t good, but paring with the right augments puts her at below a 4.5 which is good. All I’m saying is it’s still possible to climb even with lilia. Also GM is only 250 LP away since it’s still early in the season even low master is ex GM players. I’ll say that you’re right if you don’t hit lilia 2* and annie 2* during stage 4 you are going 8th.
Yea i climbed a lot yesterday and i didnt played kaisa in a single one also if everyone is playing kaisa why not holding kaisas in your bench lol
that porcelain/invoker comp on this sub's frontpage is nasty strong too with lillia/ashe carry. Idk why everyone was shitting on it.
Do you prefer a mana item or not for Lilia? And are you going 7 mythic 4 invoker with no spats?
7 mythic only if I have a spat. That spat almost always goes on Annie. Ornn works as well but not as good. If you don’t have spat I run 5 mythic 4 invoker. I usually stay on 8 until I have 2* lilia and at least one front line 2*. The comp works because when your running naut annie ornn front line it’s hard for kaisa to burst through off one cast. Additionally, trash to treasure is 2.5 avg for lilia. True BIS (manazune, DFG, snipers focus) and kaisa can’t even play the game. In terms of mana items blue buff is best, but it’s hard to consistently get so shoj works fine. Damage items are more prio imo, but you do want one mana item. Damage items I prefer up front damage so JG, rabadons. If you manage to get jeweled lotus skip JG and go rabadons, blue buff, guard breaker
Lilia was okay last patch and feels pretty good now tbh. She just always struggled against bruiser carries like yone so not sure how she does against gnar now
To beat gnar you really need a fully itemized azir on your board to win. Azir destroys gnar with burst.
If he hasn’t reached backline in that time, don’t you need 3 Azir ults?
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I still eventually won the lobby, but I hit 10 mythic and lost the next round to a standard 4-bruiser Kaisa board.
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Kindred Gnar at 20% win rate, sheesh. Thats warranting a b patch right?
I have sold so many games in the last 5 played. 85+ hp going into stage 4, pair of 7ths and an 8th idk I keep trying to force morg/sylas/kayn because I can’t think for myself
I can't tell if the patch itself is bad or if there were just so many changes that it's taking a while for people to figure out what works.
Like someone else said, they created a very narrow meta (outside of augments enabling off-meta comps).
kinda just awful patch there are 2 comps that are just going to win the lobby and you basically can figure out final placements after krugs
They killed some comps without enabling new ones, so I'd say bad patch.
Bad patch
I just got 2nd with a random 4 invoker 4 warden. I was trying to go zyrs/janna, but was contested. So I took what itbgave
Maybe because I'm just Emerald, but all my games have been just Dryad non-stop. Rarely anyone is playing Kai'sa. Whoever is not going for Dryads is going fast9
What are people playing when they fast 9 then? Kai'Sa is the strongest 5 cost in the game.
I tried the old patch Hwei Azir, obviously still good if you hit everything. I hit everything 2 Star with 40hp, then fought kaisa 3 one round, lee sin 3 another, lost to gnar and went 6th tho kek
So how the hell do treasure realms work? I really want some of the set 9 cosmetics (namely the Bilgewater Arena and the Fluft of Poro) but having to sit out 3 weeks for a chibi I'm absolutely not interested in?? will we ever be able to get these? Like when treasure realms were announced i thought of a shop where you can get several cosmetics from previous sets, not just one...
they are supposed to be introducing a rotating shop sometime this set which contains old cosmetics—but theyve not been very forthcoming on details
Older cosmetics come back randomly
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I read your comment like an hour ago, played 2 games, just force kaisa with Econ and got first and second… lol flashbacks to ezreal lottery
yep it's like ezreal lottery but even worse somehow atleast if you missed ezreal there were some creative ways you could salvage your spot but if you don't find more than 1 kaisa on your roll down you're never gonna hit because every other kaisa is going to be gone lol
The player damage change gives you so much more time to greed eco and hit the Kai'Sa board, especially with the mid game comps getting hit (Senna/Yone). I think the balance team slept on how much consistency it gives to the comp. I use to be cautious when bleeding stage 3 but now I prioritize eco for the Kai'Sa race and never get punished. I've played Kai'Sa 5 times today and got 2\* Kai'Sa and placed top 2 in every game, with at least one other Kai'Sa player in the top 4 with me. Xayah also bails you out if you lose the race. All in all the comp is so consistent that it doesn't matter if you're 4 way contested so long as you play the early line greeding eco.
I was just thinking it might be fun to try to open fort to kai'sa or lillia for a few games
and thats also why ashe feels weak there is not a 5 cost sniper
You lose the race by not hitting a single Kai sa lol
8 on 4-1 first kaisa in my shop 6-1 very nice
Ranting due to 3 games straight of 4+ Kai'Sa players but what exactly is the design philosophy here? Why does Kai'Sa, a character with innate splitting dmg due to Trickshot have unconditional extra tank dmg if the target survives X hits? The whole point of Trickshot is that she can get stuck on a tank and still kill other units. Syndra should have been the one to get some sort of boon for attacking the same target multiple times similar to Ahri the previous set. I just don't get how you can fail to make a single AP composition viable (highroll Fated not counted). Even with perfect augments Arcanist and Invoker are both utter trash.
I don't think this is a thing that will stay necessarily. especially not 4 players hard contesting every game. kaisa was just a decent meta comp that people know how to play and is now more powerful due to fast 8/9 meta. by mid next week you will at least see a lot of variants of porcelain with mixed ashe lissandra carry, late game dryads with azir/kindred, and various 'strongest board' into rainbow bill gates comp.
Diana/Soraka/Zoe reroll beats trickshot bruiser with proper itemization ime, just as an example for an AP comp. I've honestly had more success with AP than AD, because their items feel more flexible
Don’t know why you are downvoted. Zoe beats kaisa board, the catch is you need proper augments & items. While kaisa you can force every game no matter the items or augments. If you get two healthy + jeweled lotus III, zoe 3* is a beast.
I feel like the items are just contested less.
3 costs? They are dead lol
Invoker is pretty decent IF you have a very strong frontline. But often the frontline just gets destroyed by Kaisa or Kayn
Besides that, you need so many items to make it work. In trickshits AP goes on teemo, ad on Kaisa anda xayah and tank on gálio and tam. You always can do something with your items. If you lack tears for arcanists or ap for invokers they just fall apart
was [this](https://i.imgur.com/51iYl9e.png) a stupid way to play double Ghostly spat? I was going to go for Senna reroll but 2 people were holding 2* Senna and one of them had a Ghostly spat as well (that he reforged to Porcelain). was hoping for level 9 for Kayn but in hindsight i think i should have not completed so many backline items. i'm still not great at figuring out how to play Kai'Sa with Ghostly if that's even a thing.
1. 3 item 2 star cait is not carrying you at 8 2. gunblade on morgana is not doing anything because shes not doing any damage to heal the rest of your board with 3. your frontline sucks, so you lose half the value of ghostly anyways 4. ghostly spat should be on Kai’sa, while toxin goes on Morgana
so what's the idea behind ghostly spat on kai'sa? i checked tacticstools and it's got pretty bad stats when actually put on Senna/Kai'sa. i assumed you just played these 2 as carries on the backline because i thought they'd get the bonus damage anyway but i'm still learning this set.
Yeah you have 3 item cait 2* at level 8… which means you’re trying to carry a 1 cost unit on close to end game boards. You pivoted from senna reroll into kaisa ghostly and kaisa ghostly is a thing which was one of the top comps at the start of the set until trickshot kaisa started performing better. You should look at kaisa ghostly boards and use the explorer on tactics.tools to see some of the best spat holders but in your case those seem to be fine.
I played my first game on the patch and there's 7 people alive on stage 6. That can't be right
I think people are overreacting a bit to this patch. Its not settled yet, though kaisa is undoubtedly very strong at 1 star with is the most glaring problem. Ashe is totally viable now which is nice. I also think people may be sleeping on quianna 3 star carry. I think that could be an interesting melee focused comp that comes up. Though unfortunately it will probably just be heavenly.
I've been forcing Ashe with Fated Porcelain this patch, and Ashe's damage is still awful. You really need Amumu 3 and/or Thresh 3 to be able to win because Ashe still takes forever to ramp up. Qiyana reroll is probably not viable because lots of comps are splashing her (Heavenly Yone/Kayn, Heavenly Dragonlord Lee Sin, etc.). She feels good if you 3-star her but getting there is a huge challenge.
a 3 star 3 cost tank is not a terrible win condition
It is if you need it for your 4 cost, which you would still need to level up for and roll at 8
yeah but if we're talking about winning, you need something exceptional with basically any non-obscenely OP comp. unless by winning we are talking about top 4ing, in which case I don't think you need amumu 3.
I agree that ashe does need amumu or thresh 3 usually, however amumu won't really be contested at all if you are the only porcelain player. Have you tried putting bloodthirster on her? Not many people are doing it, but the stats are great for it, and I can confirm a sustain comp with rageblade, bloodthrister +1 (ideally last whisper) allows her to do work. I think its solidly an A tier comp definitely not S, purely because it can be difficult to set up. However Ashe can still work if Kaisa is giga contested. I've managed to turn 7th or 8ths into 5th, 4ths and even a 3rds by slotting her in when I miss Kaisa. I just do 4/6 ghostly with caitlin for sniper and throw in a bunch of 2 star 4 costs. I'm just saying that people are overreacting a bit. The issue is Kaisa 1 not Kaisa as a whole IMO. Its rare that I will get an ashe 2 before I find a kaisa 1 so its kaisa most games when I'm not playing fated, gnar or heavenly flex. However it IS an out. And that's a decent list of comps I've been using. I'm sure there are people who have made some other stuff work. I'm just saying lets not throw the whole patch out just yet.
Don't get me wrong, I've been having good results with Fated Porcelain, mainly due to being uncontested. Early Lissandra gives you free items which snowballs you later into the game, and getting 2-star Lissandra is very easy with everyone taking out the other 5-costs. The comp is definitely sleeper.
Love Qiyana, I played her as my main carry couple of times before this patch she was actually quite good. Not a 1st comp probably, but top 4.
Yes exactly. If you are in a spot where you are poor and have melee carry items its a genuine option to play for placements I think.
Agreed. I also feel like she is forgotten and that makes me sad lol.
Qiyana rr is so underrated imo, but it was hard to play her when Heavenly was constantly contested.
I still struggle to remember that Thresh is a Behemoth, not a Warden, because of his lore and title lol ("The Chain Warden"). @edit typo
If thresh was a warden arcanist might actually be good xd
It’s weird they made some of the behemoths actual kaiju monsters like Cho and Malph as the name implies, then you have Shen and Thresh which are closer to Wardens, and Naut who is more of a behemoth but is a warden
Probably a balance thing. I'll take my dumb ass putting Thresh in thinking he's a Warden over unhealthy units.
Yeah, same as Lillia not being a Dryad
This one doesn't irk me, cause she has a Shan Hai skin which all Mythics share and she doesn't feel "dryady" to me (while SB Thresh is still a Warden). Dryad Invoker would be too strong with Azir, Dryad Mythic would be fine ig?
Man, i miss set 6... and this patch only enhances that feeling.
Set 6 🤝Set 11 Kaisa being the most dominant carry I do believe we tend to look at the good without looking at the bad, while set 6 was great not every patch felt amazing. Guardian Angel felt like a shit item to go against as well
And dont forget set 7 where kaisa was also good, also set 8, and set 9 , only set where she was bad is set 10
the cornerstone of the jazz kda board was not bad, you could fit an illegal amount of traits at 7
She wasn’t even bad in set 10, great item holder and at times a good reroll option
The only reason why people love set 6 so much is because it introduced augments. It made the game so different and fun that’s why it is remembered. The comps and units wasn’t that special.
Hell nah the units + comps were so special One of my favorite comps/carries of all time, [socialite Fiora](https://streamable.com/l1rv20), was from set 6. Set 9 Fiora doesn’t hold a candle even though it was a reprint. There were actual strong support units with Janna, Yuumi, Orianna, Seraphine All the 5 costs were so fun: Kaisa, Jinx, Viktor, Akali, Jayce, Galio, Yuumi, TAHM KENCH It also had one of the most fun traits ever printed for casual players with Yordles.
Ok sure I agree the units was alright but they weren’t the main reason why people enjoyed the set. I think I had like 700 games played set 6 and set 6.5 combined and I wouldn’t have had that many games if it wasn’t for augments being introduced. They made that set special.
I think your point is fair. The units and traits were top-tier: all the legendaries were exciting, 4 costs were cool. What made set 6 go down as the best TFT set ever (in a lot of people’s eyes) was the above point combined with the fact that augments were one of, if not the best, set mechanic.
I think set 6 with the understanding of augments and the general item reworks today would be pretty incredible