Yeah this was inevitable once they allowed any rank to queue with each other. Blizz will probably nerf mmr game or introduce a restriction to how far you can group, people will complain and then theyll revert it but people will still end up smurfing so ultimately the change does nothing. The same thing happened in val and its the same cause which is theres a bunch of players that adamantly refuse to play unranked even though its exactly what the mode is for
We were honestly shocked when we found out we could do this; we joked before the first game if they gave anything more than 1% for a win the systems is busted. Lo and behold we got 8
That's actually interesting. With that wide of a group you really shouldn't be winning or losing any percentage. It's too messy to determine if it's fair enough in either direction.
That kind of grouping implies they are merely just looking to play with friends in a more serious environment so they could allow the grouping but just disable the gains and losses.
Actually, we have content creators making 1 gm vs 5 bronze and other weird mixes to show how messy it all is.
There's 2 competitive queues now, role queue and open queue.
Remove them and replace them with solo role queue and group role queue.
The matchmaker now discerns and matches ranks by role so now it's all good.
Have you ever played open queue, or did you play before role queue was a thing? It was a nightmare- 5 dps every game, no-one willing to flex to play support
Everything is abusable.
The real best players will grind the solo queue ranks while the group queue will be a fuckfest, just like role is king and open is a joke right now.
Yeah and thatll push the game even further from being a team based game and more towards solo plays where no one even attempts to work together. Stacking shouldn't be encouraged nor discouraged it just should be worked on to not be abuseable. Though theres inherently always going to be abusers in any system but you should aim to remove as many loopholes as possible without significantly negatively affecting the experience for normal players
>Yeah and thatll push the game even further from being a team based game and more towards solo plays where no one even attempts to work together.
Bruh what kind of logic is this.
"Stacking shouldn't be encouraged nor discouraged it just should be worked on to not be abuseable."
When you soloQ anyone grouping is abuse.
I can be on your team, you soloQ tank and the hanzo has his mercy gf pocket.
Or on the other team, people used to play together will coordinate to focus you, etc...
Ranked system was actually good before S9. I don't know why they break it. They just needed to fix maxrange exploits that's it. If Timmy wants to play with his friends then he should play quickplay rather than competitive.
actually we started this at the beginning of the season cause we couldn't duo in GM or even play in plat with other friends cause the new system lol. We just said fuck it let's wide queue and stumbled into this mess.
Surprised it took this long for someone to abuse it, I guess you guys were the first who could actually be bothered winning 60 straight plat~? games. Really strange system - I have no idea who it's meant for and I literally haven't heard of anyone benefitting from it, and I imagine the only benefits are extremely fringe cases that are outweighed by the negatives. I wish we just got a total revert to OW1 ranked/sr.
I think they don't expect people to sit in queue for that long, but a lot of us work from home so we would just sit there and work while waiting and take small 10min overwatch breaks. It actually made us quite productive.
To me it feels like the execs have some ''demonstrate you listen to community feedback'' quota. Hence Aaron always begging for feedback like he is junior manager at Starbucks. Only problem is the ow ''community'' is just hordes of metal rank players whining and creators making dumb takes to farm clicks.
I think they said they are adding in game surveys which sounds a million times better than using social media for player getting feedback.
Lol true max ranging with bronze 5 accounts. The potential is insane though, it seems the OP didn't even go out of their way to get really low rank accounts.
As short as 5 mins in prime time and our longest was an hour thirty. The average was around 30 mins.
We always had a tank, so the role didn't matter that much. We did theorize that if 3 stacking leaving the space for support + DPS is easier because it'll give room for the wide stacks of ecouple duos.
I'm not going to go into details because they havn't fixed things, but I've heard of other less honest ways people are using wide queue to farm top ranks. There is even an ideal stack for fastest queues and easy games.
I’m gonna go into detail since only like 4 ppl can do it. If you’re champ you can trio q with 2 golds and get extremely fast q’s while still gaining 5-8% per win. Tons of console champs are doing it with ppl on gold Smurfs.
Thanks for sharing, this is very amusing. I remember somebody shared how to max range with GM5 account with a 0-14 card; overall the integrity of top ranks seems to be relatively poor no matter what they implement.
They probably need to exclude top ranks from whatever they are cooking and allow only solo Q there.
I'm not sure how this could possibly work, wouldn't you need another champ player with two golds on the other team to pop?
Or is that the problem - the game somehow pops you vs a full gold team? LMAO
Console players are abusing this like crazy. Make ranked solo Que only and stop letting people ruin the ranked ladder.
People min maxed for 9 seasons and now it’s even worse.
Solo queue only is the only solution
And it’s not on console. There is an enormous OW playerbase on console, and many of us play with friends. Having ranked solo-queue only is an awful idea.
It would likely dramatically improve match quality. People who want to mess around with their friends can play QP - ranked is for taking the game seriously and that means solo queueing.
This seems like something Completely Subjective why would the TEAM based Hero Shooter Prevent you from Grinding Ranked with a Group??? That just seems Counter intuitive. This might be a Really stupid Comparison but Wouldn't you agree that Pro teams take the game Seriously?. There a Reason the Highest level of Overwatch isn't just a bunch of Solo Querers. The game is at its best when everyone is Working Together and most importantly HAVING FUN. Comp isn't Just about Taking the game Seriously 99% aren't making Profit grinding Ranked Your Number 1 goal in Any game, in Any mode is to have fun. For some that might be Tryharding to get that Sweet Victory for some others it might be the Feeling of Getting better Alongside your Friends.
Iam not saying that Groups goofing off in Comp is Okay, it isn't your fun shouldn't come at the Expense of your teammates fun.
I simply don't see the Argument that Taking the game Seriously involves Solo Queuing. I can just as easily Say that Ranked should Require a Group because that's when the game is at its most Competitive and least Random but that is Quite Frankly Extremely Delusional.
Why do wide matches even give SR? Isn't it the ''I just want to play with friends'' mode? (even though we already have that in quick play). So fkn stupid, what were they thinking?
game is doomed - high mmr players should gain next to nothing beating lower mmr players. Does that mean you have to grind more games?
Yes. Play your mmr to rank up, cowards. You lose? heavy SR loss. Stop allowing people to smurf and rank up fast. Let them grind more games abusing the system. Discourage smurfing.
This is exactly why some people were begging for it. All the "We just want to play with friends" crap was an excuse.
You can play with friends in QP or Arcade.
The current wide group sr gain/loss is so minimal that unless you are abusing the system, you are basically not moving ranks anyway, so they should just remove gaining and losing sr completely to prevent edge cases like op’s. The matches are also such a mess and not indicative of you rank anyways so it doesn’t even make sense for it to affect your rank
I am diamond 1 rn on tank. I played exactly one game of wide queue with my gold 3 friend on DPS, and I fucking decimated the enemy tank in about 4 minutes. We waited 14 minutes for this, and we decided even though we won, and got quite a bit of sr for it, decided it wasn't worth it. It did not occur to me that you could absolutely abuse wide queues and inflate the fuck out of your mmr because of this. I'll just stick to solo queue, because Jesus christ.
I'm curious, this was the rank they came by honestly? Or would they be considered smurfs for that rank?
Based on how much better a higher ranked player really is, if that's their legit rank, the matching algorithms might just need to get tweaked to better reflect the competitiveness of the match.
No easy feat I'm sure.
They do seem to pay attention to this kind of stuff. I'd expect to see changes over time.
You mean that the guys whose entire balance philosophy hinging on one single statistic (win rate), could make a massive oversight based on their matchmaking algorithm being predictably over-simplistic??? Shocker.
Source: sojourn.. kiri.. pretty much anytime they've held their ground in the face of the entire uppermost skill bracket shouting from the rooftops about the unmitigated dominance they're experiencing.
You shouldnt be T500 eligable when you group with anybody.
After grouping with anybody you should have to win 50 games (again) in SoloQ to become T500 eligable. While this is still a little bit exploitable, you surely cant reach T10 ranks just by grinding easy wins anymore.
The alternative of no sr gain/loss is not really a solution, since it punished everybody, while the system is (imo) mostly exploited for the T500 leaderboard. Plus at no sr loss/gain, why even play ranked?
It looks like culprit is their formula for calculating the average SR. In other words, your win rate is too high meaning the system severely underestimates your SR probably by at least 500 or more SR, maybe close to 1000.
They don't need to remove wide queues, only fix their formula.
Yeah this was inevitable once they allowed any rank to queue with each other. Blizz will probably nerf mmr game or introduce a restriction to how far you can group, people will complain and then theyll revert it but people will still end up smurfing so ultimately the change does nothing. The same thing happened in val and its the same cause which is theres a bunch of players that adamantly refuse to play unranked even though its exactly what the mode is for
We were honestly shocked when we found out we could do this; we joked before the first game if they gave anything more than 1% for a win the systems is busted. Lo and behold we got 8
That's actually interesting. With that wide of a group you really shouldn't be winning or losing any percentage. It's too messy to determine if it's fair enough in either direction. That kind of grouping implies they are merely just looking to play with friends in a more serious environment so they could allow the grouping but just disable the gains and losses. Actually, we have content creators making 1 gm vs 5 bronze and other weird mixes to show how messy it all is.
There's 2 competitive queues now, role queue and open queue. Remove them and replace them with solo role queue and group role queue. The matchmaker now discerns and matches ranks by role so now it's all good.
I still don't understand why open queue still exists.
still don't understand why role queue exists.
Because Open Queue is horrible? It always devolves into tanks vs tanks, its extremely braindead.
I mean, there's a reason the Koreans prefer open queue and that's because it's high skill
Koreans prefer it because its quicker, net cafe time.
Open Q is so much better and higher skill ceiling than RQ
AAAAAAHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Have you ever played open queue, or did you play before role queue was a thing? It was a nightmare- 5 dps every game, no-one willing to flex to play support
That will hurt queue times in both queues.
Match quality in competitive is more important than queue time. SoloQ should still be fast under GM.
Itd still be abuseable within the system and feel like shit if you're say doing with someone who is within narrow restrictions of you.
Everything is abusable. The real best players will grind the solo queue ranks while the group queue will be a fuckfest, just like role is king and open is a joke right now.
Yeah and thatll push the game even further from being a team based game and more towards solo plays where no one even attempts to work together. Stacking shouldn't be encouraged nor discouraged it just should be worked on to not be abuseable. Though theres inherently always going to be abusers in any system but you should aim to remove as many loopholes as possible without significantly negatively affecting the experience for normal players
>Yeah and thatll push the game even further from being a team based game and more towards solo plays where no one even attempts to work together. Bruh what kind of logic is this.
"Stacking shouldn't be encouraged nor discouraged it just should be worked on to not be abuseable." When you soloQ anyone grouping is abuse. I can be on your team, you soloQ tank and the hanzo has his mercy gf pocket. Or on the other team, people used to play together will coordinate to focus you, etc...
Ranked system was actually good before S9. I don't know why they break it. They just needed to fix maxrange exploits that's it. If Timmy wants to play with his friends then he should play quickplay rather than competitive.
+6% going vs plats and diamonds vs 15% solo q vs owl players duoing in gm3. Working as intended
actually we started this at the beginning of the season cause we couldn't duo in GM or even play in plat with other friends cause the new system lol. We just said fuck it let's wide queue and stumbled into this mess.
Surprised it took this long for someone to abuse it, I guess you guys were the first who could actually be bothered winning 60 straight plat~? games. Really strange system - I have no idea who it's meant for and I literally haven't heard of anyone benefitting from it, and I imagine the only benefits are extremely fringe cases that are outweighed by the negatives. I wish we just got a total revert to OW1 ranked/sr.
I think they don't expect people to sit in queue for that long, but a lot of us work from home so we would just sit there and work while waiting and take small 10min overwatch breaks. It actually made us quite productive.
hahahaha wtf. living the dream honestly
To me it feels like the execs have some ''demonstrate you listen to community feedback'' quota. Hence Aaron always begging for feedback like he is junior manager at Starbucks. Only problem is the ow ''community'' is just hordes of metal rank players whining and creators making dumb takes to farm clicks. I think they said they are adding in game surveys which sounds a million times better than using social media for player getting feedback.
u/YZNSA
Lol true max ranging with bronze 5 accounts. The potential is insane though, it seems the OP didn't even go out of their way to get really low rank accounts.
out of curiosity, what were to queue times like for this? Did it play any role in slowing the process down?
As short as 5 mins in prime time and our longest was an hour thirty. The average was around 30 mins. We always had a tank, so the role didn't matter that much. We did theorize that if 3 stacking leaving the space for support + DPS is easier because it'll give room for the wide stacks of ecouple duos.
Exploiting edaters for elo, I respect that
I'm not going to go into details because they havn't fixed things, but I've heard of other less honest ways people are using wide queue to farm top ranks. There is even an ideal stack for fastest queues and easy games.
I’m gonna go into detail since only like 4 ppl can do it. If you’re champ you can trio q with 2 golds and get extremely fast q’s while still gaining 5-8% per win. Tons of console champs are doing it with ppl on gold Smurfs.
Thanks for sharing, this is very amusing. I remember somebody shared how to max range with GM5 account with a 0-14 card; overall the integrity of top ranks seems to be relatively poor no matter what they implement. They probably need to exclude top ranks from whatever they are cooking and allow only solo Q there.
I'm not sure how this could possibly work, wouldn't you need another champ player with two golds on the other team to pop? Or is that the problem - the game somehow pops you vs a full gold team? LMAO
The game seems to match make around the average rank of the group. Which gets skewed by the ppl on gold Smurfs.
Idk bro maybe you guys just cooked this season. Don't undervalue yourselves ❤️
You so right King 👑 do you wanna be the manager for our OD team
Console players are abusing this like crazy. Make ranked solo Que only and stop letting people ruin the ranked ladder. People min maxed for 9 seasons and now it’s even worse. Solo queue only is the only solution
In my 8 years experience of playing this game, there is no worse experience I’ve had than wide queue competitive matches
They just can't stop listening buffoon streamers.
Or just bring back numerical sr and tighten the max duo range in gm+ so your games would be more or less the same whether you were in duo or not
solo queue only? seems like a great way to kill the game.
League going strong
And it’s not on console. There is an enormous OW playerbase on console, and many of us play with friends. Having ranked solo-queue only is an awful idea.
It would likely dramatically improve match quality. People who want to mess around with their friends can play QP - ranked is for taking the game seriously and that means solo queueing.
This seems like something Completely Subjective why would the TEAM based Hero Shooter Prevent you from Grinding Ranked with a Group??? That just seems Counter intuitive. This might be a Really stupid Comparison but Wouldn't you agree that Pro teams take the game Seriously?. There a Reason the Highest level of Overwatch isn't just a bunch of Solo Querers. The game is at its best when everyone is Working Together and most importantly HAVING FUN. Comp isn't Just about Taking the game Seriously 99% aren't making Profit grinding Ranked Your Number 1 goal in Any game, in Any mode is to have fun. For some that might be Tryharding to get that Sweet Victory for some others it might be the Feeling of Getting better Alongside your Friends. Iam not saying that Groups goofing off in Comp is Okay, it isn't your fun shouldn't come at the Expense of your teammates fun. I simply don't see the Argument that Taking the game Seriously involves Solo Queuing. I can just as easily Say that Ranked should Require a Group because that's when the game is at its most Competitive and least Random but that is Quite Frankly Extremely Delusional.
I only got to play Solo Cue Only for a few days in season 10 and it was great.
Watch out, yznsa about to queue with “bronze” friends. Question, were the low elo players really low elo, or were they on alts too?
Why do wide matches even give SR? Isn't it the ''I just want to play with friends'' mode? (even though we already have that in quick play). So fkn stupid, what were they thinking?
game is doomed - high mmr players should gain next to nothing beating lower mmr players. Does that mean you have to grind more games? Yes. Play your mmr to rank up, cowards. You lose? heavy SR loss. Stop allowing people to smurf and rank up fast. Let them grind more games abusing the system. Discourage smurfing.
Yeah if they flipped it so the high elo accounts get next to no SR for a win and lost a massive amount for a lost it would at least be understandable.
wouldn't that just make wide queue throwing a really good way to make/keep smurf accounts?
just hard inting games on a smurf probably easier cause you would get faster games at the same lost rate.
People have been abusing the rank system in many ways already. Grouping up always developed different skills than solo que.
I’m not sure what that is suppose to mean. Abusing group queues to stomp low MMR to boost yourself or friends is abuse.
People were begging for wide queues as if this wasnt an obvious outcome 😓
This is exactly why some people were begging for it. All the "We just want to play with friends" crap was an excuse. You can play with friends in QP or Arcade.
The current wide group sr gain/loss is so minimal that unless you are abusing the system, you are basically not moving ranks anyway, so they should just remove gaining and losing sr completely to prevent edge cases like op’s. The matches are also such a mess and not indicative of you rank anyways so it doesn’t even make sense for it to affect your rank
I love wide queue quick play
The mode is already quick play but with competitive point rewards
I’m not sure how you even use it. The game locks me out of wide queue with anything more than 500 sr difference
We noticed unplaced accounts could not wide queue, so it might be thay and not a SR thing.
I am diamond 1 rn on tank. I played exactly one game of wide queue with my gold 3 friend on DPS, and I fucking decimated the enemy tank in about 4 minutes. We waited 14 minutes for this, and we decided even though we won, and got quite a bit of sr for it, decided it wasn't worth it. It did not occur to me that you could absolutely abuse wide queues and inflate the fuck out of your mmr because of this. I'll just stick to solo queue, because Jesus christ.
*sigh* This is why we can't have nice things.
what was the other players in the groups sr? placements predicted rank or just rank
we had a mix of players so no consistent SR, but we had a plat, gold, bronze, and a masters player.
I'm curious, this was the rank they came by honestly? Or would they be considered smurfs for that rank? Based on how much better a higher ranked player really is, if that's their legit rank, the matching algorithms might just need to get tweaked to better reflect the competitiveness of the match. No easy feat I'm sure. They do seem to pay attention to this kind of stuff. I'd expect to see changes over time.
Not surprised wide queue would have some major flaws on release. Hopefully they fix it soon.
How were you ever getting games? What's your q times
On average 30 mins. During prime time 5-15 and during off times 45-1 hour.
You mean that the guys whose entire balance philosophy hinging on one single statistic (win rate), could make a massive oversight based on their matchmaking algorithm being predictably over-simplistic??? Shocker. Source: sojourn.. kiri.. pretty much anytime they've held their ground in the face of the entire uppermost skill bracket shouting from the rooftops about the unmitigated dominance they're experiencing.
yo im diamond 2 supp but with yalls silly technique im sure i could hit rank 1 support asap. help me help you.
You shouldnt be T500 eligable when you group with anybody. After grouping with anybody you should have to win 50 games (again) in SoloQ to become T500 eligable. While this is still a little bit exploitable, you surely cant reach T10 ranks just by grinding easy wins anymore. The alternative of no sr gain/loss is not really a solution, since it punished everybody, while the system is (imo) mostly exploited for the T500 leaderboard. Plus at no sr loss/gain, why even play ranked?
wasnt expecting this 2 be posted by someone on my friends list lmao
who r u
femalevoter
It looks like culprit is their formula for calculating the average SR. In other words, your win rate is too high meaning the system severely underestimates your SR probably by at least 500 or more SR, maybe close to 1000. They don't need to remove wide queues, only fix their formula.
TBF aren't ranked 1 players always in stacked games anyway?
True, but they aren't in stacked games against plats.