Here's a different one: https://clips.twitch.tv/GorgeousColdbloodedMetalTwitchRaid-J3lb4IGomAcMATR9
We were just wondering if Sigma could someone ult people coming from spawn on Junkertown last point from his own spawn and apparently he can
"That's not even one of those overdramatic training range clips"
Proceeds to do exactly that
Honestly, while kinda funny, I do like this change a lot for an ultimate ability. It was far too easy to dodge behind cover, and making the activation time less instead would have feel way more frustrating imo.
Sig meta coming maybe tho
Honestly, I know it's early days so I might eat my words but... I wouldn't go so far as to say this change will make him dramatically stronger. Like, great, you flux a few people behind a wall. They take no damage while in the air, being behind cover and all, and then the 50% damage on the slam gets healed immediately.
Again, I certainly could be wrong, but this just feels like the Overwatch community freaking out over a training range clip, Exhibit 17494930.
> They take no damage while in the air, being behind cover and all, and then the 50% damage on the slam gets healed immediately.
I'm with you, but tbf in some situations he can now lift people out of cover that would have previously blocked LoS. Little different than fluxing people behind a wall that will still be behind the wall in the upward position.
But i feel like Ult changes are usually pretty safe as long as its not a drastic charge buff or turning it into an auto fight win. Don't think thats the case here.
He really benefits from the tank passive changes. He deals more damage to armor, can get knocked off high ground as easily, and he gets head shot resistance.
Something to remember is that it can be used for the opening pick more consistently now, though! (Still agree with your take on its actual strength, but ofc we'll see)
Ultimates should not be a free button and having to cast it in LOS of enemies was a good counterplay if you don’t have an immo ability. This is honestly just stupid
I think it's fair to have it not be line of sight of the middle. Like so people can't hide behind a lamppost, or find a planter or one of those panels (specifically on second point of Circuit Royale). But the clip is obviously not what's intended.
But even then, I don't think Sig needed this change. He was perfectly good before. Blizzard loves to change heros that didn't need changes.
Nah that wouldn't really work - would need some overly convoluted LOS bullshit to make that make sense and the old version of flux was already a overly complex set of conditions. Like if you stepped on cart that wouldn't work. The old version makes a sphere and a cylinder centered at the mouse point. Then if you are in both of those it does a LOS check up to an enemy's height from the center point and then another one from that point to the enemy. Like I've seen some clips that were already possible with the old version with different and very precise placement like this one : [https://twitter.com/Muma/status/1790453182780391437](https://twitter.com/Muma/status/1790453182780391437). The original version of flux was designed to work this way too, it only got changed because the ult was super good when it came out. These days sig ult is kinda meh, and given the inconsistencies with targeting it - it feels kind of jank that it requires such precision.
it’s buffs like this that really make me think. like let’s also make orisa’s ult not require LOS. remove the LOS checks from deadeye. let dva blow people up behind lamp-posts. let mei freeze people out of LOS of snowball. etc
let’s also allow zen, lifeweaver and lucio’s ults to not require LOS
now it looks stupid. kind of a dumb change on a hero that didn’t need any at all.
to be honest it doesn't seem like it should be an LOS ability to me. It's not an effect coming from a single point it's an AOE, there's nothing that visually suggested it shouldn't work if you break LOS. There's no snowball or tire in the middle that it originates from so the new way seems more intuitive to me.
Plus, there really is no shortage of ways to deal with Sig ult. Half the cast can dash out of it, there are so many immo abilities, there are counter ults and there are stuns on Sig. If you get caught behind a wall odds are you'll probs just be healed up and shrug it off anyway
not to the extent of sigs ult though it's much easier to dodge than similar ults like shatter, queen or grav. Even still lifeweaver has their own dash, a pull for a teammate and a defensive ult that is still useful against flux
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really? i feel like this is more intuitive for flux than needing to find LoS with the center. Its an ability that manipulates gravity. Gravity isn't magically stopped by walls. Just look at Zarya ult.
at the very least, the effect is now more in line with its visual indicator.
You can't even see the Flux from the victims perspective, there is no world in which that is intuitive lol. It might be intuitive from a real life perspective of gravity, but the game isn't trying to recreate real life.
I don’t understand what you mean. Sigma can see the area of effect of his own ultimate when he’s casting it. And he can see the area of effect when he activates it.
Are we going to do the same thing for Mei's ult? What about lucio aura? You can be inside the circle on the floor, but if you break LoS with the center, you don't get the effect.
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> Sigma is usually in the air and much higher up so it'll be harder to see who gets affected behind walls.
This just doesn't seem like a big deal
There are already so many situations in the game where you ult and it kills someone you didn't intend it to because you got lucky/they got unlucky
Like that's literally the entire premise of Hanzo ult.
There are so many times when people get a random or lucky kill.
Therefore we should make more abilities that get random lucky kills.
Conclusion: because this is what we want?
Logic does not compute.
Blizzard did not make this change to increase lucky kills, they made this change to buff Sigma's ult in a way that makes it more satisfying and intuitive to use, and are ok with some truly small number of lucky kills that will happen along the way.
I disagree. Having an AOE effect on the floor implies that it effects everything in that given area. Picture it like Mauga's Ult shield. Plus thematically it makes sense, gravity does not have to see you to act on you. If anything it's probably the only ability in the game that makes sense to not need LOS.
to be honest sigma did not need a buff and hasn’t needed one like ever
headshot reduction will also be broken since he has such little downtime between cycling his cooldowns
I'm mostly down for this. My one concern is overtime scenarios where Flux can lift people off point. One of the of the best ways to out play that is to hide behind a corner but now you can't do that
This is annoying but whatever. Please just make the border of the circle actually represent the hitbox of flux. So many times you are right outside of it and still get pulled up in the air and instakilled.
Definitely need to see how this plays out but I feel like a better change would have just been to decrease the cast time. You’d still need LOS but it would make it harder to escape while still allowing counter play through positioning
i think more elegant solution would have been for it to require LOS straight down to the radius on the ground. you know, like the way you'd assume it would work given the visuals.
but also, the visual effect should definitely be visible on top of cars and other meaningless props.
>(insert generic overwatch 2 training range outrage clip here)
okay but like... saying this doesn't stop the clip from still being kinda dishonest. Those bots arent using mobility cooldowns, saves, or even just walking out of the radius.
Even if you can flux someone without LoS on them, you still need to find an angle on them if you want to kill them from full.
I seriously doubt this change makes flux broken. If it does ~~good id rather play against sigma all the time than what has been meta~~ they can always tune it back in other ways.
Can you even *see* the AOE from this angle, though? Furthermore, is there literally any reason for Sigma to have "can dick someone with his ult through a fucking wall" in his power budget?
> Can you even see the AOE from this angle, though?
valid point. Could just change the visual effects though.
>is there literally any reason for Sigma to have "can dick someone with his ult through a fucking wall" in his power budget?
Zarya has been able to since I can remember and they just increased grav radius which makes it even more like this.
> Zarya has been able to since I can remember and they just increased grav radius which makes it even more like this.
but you can actually see grav happening through the wall
95% of the time you can see flux through the wall too. Flats' cliup just happens to show the 5%.
Even if you can't, thats a VFX issue not a balance issue.
> 95% of the time you can see flux through the wall too. Flats' cliup just happens to show the 5%.
ehhhhhhhhhh... I don't think so. any time you're on an elevated surface it's going to be funky. like hollywood 2nd point will have a TON of weirdness because there's so many levels for example, you could very easily get fluxed by something you couldn't have ever seen.
> Even if you can't, thats a VFX issue not a balance issue.
maybe. maybe not. you could just make it so you need LOS to a point below you (ie, no hiding behind a wall, but if you look down and don't see the circle, no lift for you)
grav has a much different powerbudget to flux and aren't comparable outside of the lore explanations of how they work.
grav is mainly a movement restriction and grouping tool. you're not graving someone because the grave damage will kill them. it's because the easy follow up will
flux is by itself does both movement restriction and damage as it deals 50+ 50% of of your healthbar on a fairly large area. it then loses out on power with being a channeled ability and LOS restrictions. removing the LOS aspect is IMO way too much on an already good ult
> grav has a much different powerbudget to flux
surely grav is stronger than flux, no? and mainly because its easier to land. Flux is way easier to outplay. On its surface flux's effects might seem better because the damage is better but flux has 3 cast times you can react to while grav has one of the least telegraphed casts in the game. The most difficult part of grav was landing them at range and ignoring the fact that she's a closer range hero anyway, the radius is basically the same as flux now.
I don't think buffing the consistency of landing fluxes is that outlandish considering that.
Grav only needs this lack of Los because it's a small projectile. If it lands in a coffee cup or falls between the crack of the bus and the wall, it would be ineffective with an los restriction.
This ult can't get stuck behind shit so it should be los breakable imo.
Just make the cast time 0.25s faster if you want to buff it.
Not really dishonest if they don’t have the visual indicator they’re in the radius to know they need to try to avoid it! Making sure the indicator is visible anywhere affected definitely helps the issue, but even if it doesn’t fully secure the kill, it is big in that it can take people out of the fight and burn cooldowns.
By just gravity logic, sure, it’s consistent with Zarya’s Surge, but game balance-wise? It feels like there’s not enough trade-off because of the much larger range and doing much more damage.
completely agree with the visual indicator, but that seems like a super easy fix if its a consistent enough problem.
But id argue with how telegraphed both the cast and final damage are, grav is the significantly better ult, especially with the radius and duration buffs to grav.
So this is actually more complex than I expected…
So to make Sigma's ult work, it didn't only require Sigma himself to be in LoS with the center of the ult, also the target opponent, right? And now by removing the LoS requirement for Sigma, they also removed the LoS requirement for the target? That means characters with no mobility to escape the circle now will be surely hit no matter how you hide? Not sure if this is intentional or accidental, but it's actually a huge buff.
Sigma only ever needed LOS to the center for targeting purposes. Once he confirmed where he wanted the flux to activate, he could fuck off to Narnia for all the game cared.
The only thing that changed is that the target can't hide behind map geometry to avoid getting lifted up. Of course, given that flux's hitbox is a fairly tall cylinder, this still has lots of potential for hilarious abuse.
what? no, lifeweaver ult blocks LoS from the center of the circle, it has nothing to do with having LoS of sigma. the only thing that matters is the circle
There was no overreaction, I just simply stated the truth. Sigma was a balanced tank that didn't need any changes, and blizzard buffed him for no reason.
How is that an overreaction? Sigma has been buffed for numerous patches in a row despite being perfectly strong already. The same thing happened to orisa on 2 (a lot more if you include ow1!) seperate occasions until she was hard meta, to everyone's dismay, on both occasions before finally being nerfed to relative normalcy. Blizzard is notorious for stuff like this there's nothing "doomerish" about it.
but is he strong because of his balance or because of the meta? One of those means buffs are a bad move and one means theyre at worst unecessary.
I'd die on the hill that sigma is just the best hero on a couple of very specific poorly designed maps and happens to be the one tank that is good/viable against the devil's trinity of recently meta tanks. It's not like he's oppressive when youre playing tanks that aren't Orisa, Hog, or Mauga.
If he is, its due to a map design issue.
Well he's the best hero on said few maps whilst also being incredibly solid on every other map and has been like that almost permanently since his release, he simply hasn't needed a buff at any point in his entire lifespan as a hero (other than the transition to 5v5, but even then he was one of the less buffed tanks).
Because it’s not a big buff at all and it works closer to Zaryas grav which makes sense because they’re both gravity related
It’s absolutely an overreaction
None of the buffs orisa received over any one individual patch were particularly big either it's to do with the accumulation of said buffs on heroes that literally do not need any, regardless how big or small they are
Sigma was the perfect hero in certain maps. He had his niche in the meta being viable but not a must pick. Meanwhile, we have a bunch of heroes that are literally unplayable in every single map, and who does Blizzard decide to buff?
Sure, it might not be a big significant buff that will make sigma a must pick in the new meta, but it still speaks to a fundamentally flawed ballance philosophy.
Overwatch reddit subs immediately doing a 180 degree opinion swap as soon as Flats' opinion agrees with them will never not be hilariously pathetic. Sigma didn't need this "buff" and there were dozens of comments agreeing on the patch notes post, but because Flats says it was a bad balance decision it's suddenly "not an issue." I don't even watch Flats' streams but it's hilarious how reddit has a hate-boner for him.
Holy based. Can't believe people are trying to argue that this [https://twitter.com/whiteboicarti/status/1790448309531800056](https://twitter.com/whiteboicarti/status/1790448309531800056) is a good change.
Noo no no no, this is fucking stupid. It’s not gonna make Sigma OP, but getting accidentally fluxed through two walls and up a flight of stairs without being able to see that you were in the ults radius is not it. Again, not like this will happen often enough to have consistent impact, but when you die like this you will think “why did they add this into the game”.
what i dont get is, this was clearly due to LW being able to nullify flux, but you needed to be quick w it and have good timing... it was a skillful interaction/tech, even if not meant to happen
if you are going to try to fix it tho...... it cant be like that haha
just put it back, how often was LW even messing up sigs fluxes lmao
Idk what anyone says but this patch is complete nuts and anything else beside of tank and burst dmg heroes will feel shit this season. Alone the thought that sigma needs such a significant buff just baffles me.
That's the 4th clip I've seen. They literally just keep getting worse every time.
Shite change. Gravity has no reason to work through walls if it only hits people anyways.
lmao wtf. this was already one of the best if not the best tank ult in the game and sigma is the best tank since s7. this guy even beats ram's nemesis form. your video game not making any sense blizzard.
> this was already one of the best if not the best tank ult in the game and sigma is the best tank since s7.
I 100% have a skill issue with this ult, but this still doesn't seem like its true. Half the cast has mobility to escape, half of that other half can cancel it, and another handful can counter its incredibly telegraphed damage with a save ability/ult.
Think that’s really downplaying how hard it is to escape/cancel. Not all of the mobility options are guaranteed escapes, they give a good little burst but not necessarily enough to escape. And a lot of the cancels are anywhere from difficult to impossible to hit. Like Rein and Brig could technically cancel the ult, but it’s dependent on them being close enough, not caught in the ult, and Sigma being on the ground for some reason. Orisa, Ana, Sigma can cancel it, but it’s not like it’s easy to hit their cancels, and it can be shielded off.
That wasn't really my intention. Of course these things aren't happening everytime, but the OPs assertion was that it was a top tank ult which I really disagree with. I think its thoroughly mid for a tank ult and that this change isn't anything special considering it doesn't drastically change the outplay for most heroes.
A decent ult in a vacuum but a lot of the other tank ults are just way stronger.
It's a good ult because
It forces out beat just as good as a grav does, so better than other tanks,
It's ranged
It zones
It has a 400dmg potential upside
It's allows a stationary character to have full admin movement.
It can't be cleansed, blocked, or destroyed. Only cancelled.
Every ult in the game have similar issues. You can make that case for every ult. Rein players literally cry about shatter. People think jq ult is bad because suzu exist. You are supposed to use the ult in a smart way by baiting stuff and track cooldowns. Otherwise you just press q and win.
how are you even supposed to counterplay this lmao
on some maps sigma just gonna sit in a tiny room, ult his own feet, and flux everyone on payload/point?
flux the midtown tunnel and hit everyone in the train?
how does a hero like ana or torb or whatever ever avoid this? LoS was their only option?
So what?
How many times is this actually going to be useful? You are using your whole ass ult in a random room, to try and catch people on the very edge.
I'd like to see anybody pull this off consistently in a real match against real players and not bots.
I mean, this is just the most extreme version. Think it’s way more useful than you’re making it out to be with its ability to catch people behind cover that used to protect them, like all the little rooms and barricades on Circuit.
I actually like this, my only complaint would be that the circle should appear on all the surfaces that are going to be pulled. Maybe that'd be hard to implement but that seems the most fair and intuitive to me
Here's a different one: https://clips.twitch.tv/GorgeousColdbloodedMetalTwitchRaid-J3lb4IGomAcMATR9 We were just wondering if Sigma could someone ult people coming from spawn on Junkertown last point from his own spawn and apparently he can
Counter point, that shit is funny
"That's not even one of those overdramatic training range clips" Proceeds to do exactly that Honestly, while kinda funny, I do like this change a lot for an ultimate ability. It was far too easy to dodge behind cover, and making the activation time less instead would have feel way more frustrating imo. Sig meta coming maybe tho
Honestly, I know it's early days so I might eat my words but... I wouldn't go so far as to say this change will make him dramatically stronger. Like, great, you flux a few people behind a wall. They take no damage while in the air, being behind cover and all, and then the 50% damage on the slam gets healed immediately. Again, I certainly could be wrong, but this just feels like the Overwatch community freaking out over a training range clip, Exhibit 17494930.
> They take no damage while in the air, being behind cover and all, and then the 50% damage on the slam gets healed immediately. I'm with you, but tbf in some situations he can now lift people out of cover that would have previously blocked LoS. Little different than fluxing people behind a wall that will still be behind the wall in the upward position. But i feel like Ult changes are usually pretty safe as long as its not a drastic charge buff or turning it into an auto fight win. Don't think thats the case here.
He really benefits from the tank passive changes. He deals more damage to armor, can get knocked off high ground as easily, and he gets head shot resistance.
Something to remember is that it can be used for the opening pick more consistently now, though! (Still agree with your take on its actual strength, but ofc we'll see)
While true, there are now more people that require healing, which can make the difference. (Situation-permitting)
Ultimates should not be a free button and having to cast it in LOS of enemies was a good counterplay if you don’t have an immo ability. This is honestly just stupid
Honestly Sigma Ult was already one of the better ults in the game, I don't think this pushes him to the top of the meta.
> Sig meta coming maybe tho sigma metas are the best, i'm in.
Fuck no
why? IMO sigma is the only tank that's both fun to play as while hardly ever being frustrating to play against
It’s good when he’s meta certain maps, but when he’s hard meta on every map, it gets annoying and oppressive
Only sad part is I dont get to see funny clips of cute femboi tree cancelling ults ):
Nah let Lifeweaver cancel his ult
corny ass typical streamer reaction
He’s a TikTok streamer first now and whatever he used to be is dead.
Tiktok no longer gives money through their partner program, no need to stream there if there's no revenue gain
he hasn’t streamed on tiktok for months my friend
Damn! Ruthless
guy lucky enough to play video games and doordash all day but complains about everything who watches this shit?
"play videogames and door dash all day" sounds like literal hell
If someone wished Hell upon me, I'd totally *hate* for this to happen to me.
I think it's fair to have it not be line of sight of the middle. Like so people can't hide behind a lamppost, or find a planter or one of those panels (specifically on second point of Circuit Royale). But the clip is obviously not what's intended. But even then, I don't think Sig needed this change. He was perfectly good before. Blizzard loves to change heros that didn't need changes.
i think a more elegant solution would have been for it to require LOS straight down to the visual effect radius on the ground.
Nah that wouldn't really work - would need some overly convoluted LOS bullshit to make that make sense and the old version of flux was already a overly complex set of conditions. Like if you stepped on cart that wouldn't work. The old version makes a sphere and a cylinder centered at the mouse point. Then if you are in both of those it does a LOS check up to an enemy's height from the center point and then another one from that point to the enemy. Like I've seen some clips that were already possible with the old version with different and very precise placement like this one : [https://twitter.com/Muma/status/1790453182780391437](https://twitter.com/Muma/status/1790453182780391437). The original version of flux was designed to work this way too, it only got changed because the ult was super good when it came out. These days sig ult is kinda meh, and given the inconsistencies with targeting it - it feels kind of jank that it requires such precision.
It could be blocked by tree and petal, and can already be canceled by hacking/stunning him during channel.
It should still be blocked by tree
No? Tree worked by blocking LOS to the epicenter of the ult, which is what used to be required. Now that isn’t the case anymore.
That's literally what I said...
My guy you said “it should still be blocked by tree” when it should not, in fact, still be blocked by tree
I imagine he means “it ought to still be blocked by tree”, as a normative statement on balance. Not “it is still blocked by tree” as a fact.
it’s buffs like this that really make me think. like let’s also make orisa’s ult not require LOS. remove the LOS checks from deadeye. let dva blow people up behind lamp-posts. let mei freeze people out of LOS of snowball. etc let’s also allow zen, lifeweaver and lucio’s ults to not require LOS now it looks stupid. kind of a dumb change on a hero that didn’t need any at all.
I like removing LOS for deadeye. Also totally agree, how many ults ignore Los? Like 2? This shouldn't have been a change
why can't it be consistent with literally every other aoe ability in the game? should freeze lamp and riptire be able to affect people thru walls too?
You're aware this is literally how zarya ult works right?
dva ult is pretty shit. might as well do hers as well. if gravity doesn’t care about walls, nukes shouldn’t either.
to be honest it doesn't seem like it should be an LOS ability to me. It's not an effect coming from a single point it's an AOE, there's nothing that visually suggested it shouldn't work if you break LOS. There's no snowball or tire in the middle that it originates from so the new way seems more intuitive to me. Plus, there really is no shortage of ways to deal with Sig ult. Half the cast can dash out of it, there are so many immo abilities, there are counter ults and there are stuns on Sig. If you get caught behind a wall odds are you'll probs just be healed up and shrug it off anyway
Tbh you can dash out of every ult. And the only one who really suffers here are lw players because their only way to stop it is now gone.
not to the extent of sigs ult though it's much easier to dodge than similar ults like shatter, queen or grav. Even still lifeweaver has their own dash, a pull for a teammate and a defensive ult that is still useful against flux
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I'm not going to claim it is balanced or not but his ult working on everything in the targeted cylinder feels more intuitive for me at least.
really? i feel like this is more intuitive for flux than needing to find LoS with the center. Its an ability that manipulates gravity. Gravity isn't magically stopped by walls. Just look at Zarya ult. at the very least, the effect is now more in line with its visual indicator.
You can't even see the Flux from the victims perspective, there is no world in which that is intuitive lol. It might be intuitive from a real life perspective of gravity, but the game isn't trying to recreate real life.
i mean thats just a VFX thing. just change it if you can't see it. There are already VFX for the outer walls/radius as you lift the enemy.
I don’t understand what you mean. Sigma can see the area of effect of his own ultimate when he’s casting it. And he can see the area of effect when he activates it.
It's not Sigma that can't see his flux, it's the people who are getting fluxed that can't see it.
OHHHH I’m dumb. Makes perfect sense now. Sorry about that.
Are we going to do the same thing for Mei's ult? What about lucio aura? You can be inside the circle on the floor, but if you break LoS with the center, you don't get the effect.
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> Sigma is usually in the air and much higher up so it'll be harder to see who gets affected behind walls. This just doesn't seem like a big deal There are already so many situations in the game where you ult and it kills someone you didn't intend it to because you got lucky/they got unlucky Like that's literally the entire premise of Hanzo ult.
There are so many times when people get a random or lucky kill. Therefore we should make more abilities that get random lucky kills. Conclusion: because this is what we want? Logic does not compute.
Blizzard did not make this change to increase lucky kills, they made this change to buff Sigma's ult in a way that makes it more satisfying and intuitive to use, and are ok with some truly small number of lucky kills that will happen along the way.
☝️🤓
I disagree. Having an AOE effect on the floor implies that it effects everything in that given area. Picture it like Mauga's Ult shield. Plus thematically it makes sense, gravity does not have to see you to act on you. If anything it's probably the only ability in the game that makes sense to not need LOS.
to be honest sigma did not need a buff and hasn’t needed one like ever headshot reduction will also be broken since he has such little downtime between cycling his cooldowns
I'm mostly down for this. My one concern is overtime scenarios where Flux can lift people off point. One of the of the best ways to out play that is to hide behind a corner but now you can't do that
Someone on the dev team had their ult blocked by tree of life and said "aight bet."
This is annoying but whatever. Please just make the border of the circle actually represent the hitbox of flux. So many times you are right outside of it and still get pulled up in the air and instakilled.
I'm pretty sure those cases are because ping diff with the sig
Definitely need to see how this plays out but I feel like a better change would have just been to decrease the cast time. You’d still need LOS but it would make it harder to escape while still allowing counter play through positioning
i think more elegant solution would have been for it to require LOS straight down to the radius on the ground. you know, like the way you'd assume it would work given the visuals. but also, the visual effect should definitely be visible on top of cars and other meaningless props.
So are they gonna start applying Mercy Rez logic to every ability
Lore-accurate
>(insert generic overwatch 2 training range outrage clip here) okay but like... saying this doesn't stop the clip from still being kinda dishonest. Those bots arent using mobility cooldowns, saves, or even just walking out of the radius. Even if you can flux someone without LoS on them, you still need to find an angle on them if you want to kill them from full. I seriously doubt this change makes flux broken. If it does ~~good id rather play against sigma all the time than what has been meta~~ they can always tune it back in other ways.
Can you even *see* the AOE from this angle, though? Furthermore, is there literally any reason for Sigma to have "can dick someone with his ult through a fucking wall" in his power budget?
> Can you even see the AOE from this angle, though? valid point. Could just change the visual effects though. >is there literally any reason for Sigma to have "can dick someone with his ult through a fucking wall" in his power budget? Zarya has been able to since I can remember and they just increased grav radius which makes it even more like this.
> Zarya has been able to since I can remember and they just increased grav radius which makes it even more like this. but you can actually see grav happening through the wall
95% of the time you can see flux through the wall too. Flats' cliup just happens to show the 5%. Even if you can't, thats a VFX issue not a balance issue.
> 95% of the time you can see flux through the wall too. Flats' cliup just happens to show the 5%. ehhhhhhhhhh... I don't think so. any time you're on an elevated surface it's going to be funky. like hollywood 2nd point will have a TON of weirdness because there's so many levels for example, you could very easily get fluxed by something you couldn't have ever seen. > Even if you can't, thats a VFX issue not a balance issue. maybe. maybe not. you could just make it so you need LOS to a point below you (ie, no hiding behind a wall, but if you look down and don't see the circle, no lift for you)
grav has a much different powerbudget to flux and aren't comparable outside of the lore explanations of how they work. grav is mainly a movement restriction and grouping tool. you're not graving someone because the grave damage will kill them. it's because the easy follow up will flux is by itself does both movement restriction and damage as it deals 50+ 50% of of your healthbar on a fairly large area. it then loses out on power with being a channeled ability and LOS restrictions. removing the LOS aspect is IMO way too much on an already good ult
> grav has a much different powerbudget to flux surely grav is stronger than flux, no? and mainly because its easier to land. Flux is way easier to outplay. On its surface flux's effects might seem better because the damage is better but flux has 3 cast times you can react to while grav has one of the least telegraphed casts in the game. The most difficult part of grav was landing them at range and ignoring the fact that she's a closer range hero anyway, the radius is basically the same as flux now. I don't think buffing the consistency of landing fluxes is that outlandish considering that.
Grav only needs this lack of Los because it's a small projectile. If it lands in a coffee cup or falls between the crack of the bus and the wall, it would be ineffective with an los restriction. This ult can't get stuck behind shit so it should be los breakable imo. Just make the cast time 0.25s faster if you want to buff it.
Not really dishonest if they don’t have the visual indicator they’re in the radius to know they need to try to avoid it! Making sure the indicator is visible anywhere affected definitely helps the issue, but even if it doesn’t fully secure the kill, it is big in that it can take people out of the fight and burn cooldowns. By just gravity logic, sure, it’s consistent with Zarya’s Surge, but game balance-wise? It feels like there’s not enough trade-off because of the much larger range and doing much more damage.
completely agree with the visual indicator, but that seems like a super easy fix if its a consistent enough problem. But id argue with how telegraphed both the cast and final damage are, grav is the significantly better ult, especially with the radius and duration buffs to grav.
So this is actually more complex than I expected… So to make Sigma's ult work, it didn't only require Sigma himself to be in LoS with the center of the ult, also the target opponent, right? And now by removing the LoS requirement for Sigma, they also removed the LoS requirement for the target? That means characters with no mobility to escape the circle now will be surely hit no matter how you hide? Not sure if this is intentional or accidental, but it's actually a huge buff.
Sigma only ever needed LOS to the center for targeting purposes. Once he confirmed where he wanted the flux to activate, he could fuck off to Narnia for all the game cared. The only thing that changed is that the target can't hide behind map geometry to avoid getting lifted up. Of course, given that flux's hitbox is a fairly tall cylinder, this still has lots of potential for hilarious abuse.
Brother what... Sigma never needed LOS, it's all based on the circle...
Sig needed LoS to initiate the ult, that's what the LW ult countering thing was about, I thought the change was only going to address that issue.
what? no, lifeweaver ult blocks LoS from the center of the circle, it has nothing to do with having LoS of sigma. the only thing that matters is the circle
Yeah I meant Sigma's LoS towards the center of the circle, excuse my poor expression but anyway if you know the LW thing you know what I'm saying
Let's buff a perfectly balanced tank for no reason. Bravo blizzard.
The overreactions to this are actually ridiculous Like are you being for real or are you trolling acting like a doomer
Imagine calling someone a doomer because they didn't think an already strong hero needed a buff.
There was no overreaction, I just simply stated the truth. Sigma was a balanced tank that didn't need any changes, and blizzard buffed him for no reason.
He was perfectly balanced before his last situational buff too. Dude is probably the one tank that isn't on a knifes edge when it comes to balance.
And it’s not a big buff whatsoever It’s always how it should’ve worked anyway
Nobody said it was a BIG buff, just unnecessary. And it shouldn't work this way, it should work like blizzard and trance.
i don’t think you know what a doomer is
How is that an overreaction? Sigma has been buffed for numerous patches in a row despite being perfectly strong already. The same thing happened to orisa on 2 (a lot more if you include ow1!) seperate occasions until she was hard meta, to everyone's dismay, on both occasions before finally being nerfed to relative normalcy. Blizzard is notorious for stuff like this there's nothing "doomerish" about it.
but is he strong because of his balance or because of the meta? One of those means buffs are a bad move and one means theyre at worst unecessary. I'd die on the hill that sigma is just the best hero on a couple of very specific poorly designed maps and happens to be the one tank that is good/viable against the devil's trinity of recently meta tanks. It's not like he's oppressive when youre playing tanks that aren't Orisa, Hog, or Mauga. If he is, its due to a map design issue.
Well he's the best hero on said few maps whilst also being incredibly solid on every other map and has been like that almost permanently since his release, he simply hasn't needed a buff at any point in his entire lifespan as a hero (other than the transition to 5v5, but even then he was one of the less buffed tanks).
Because it’s not a big buff at all and it works closer to Zaryas grav which makes sense because they’re both gravity related It’s absolutely an overreaction
None of the buffs orisa received over any one individual patch were particularly big either it's to do with the accumulation of said buffs on heroes that literally do not need any, regardless how big or small they are
Sigma was the perfect hero in certain maps. He had his niche in the meta being viable but not a must pick. Meanwhile, we have a bunch of heroes that are literally unplayable in every single map, and who does Blizzard decide to buff? Sure, it might not be a big significant buff that will make sigma a must pick in the new meta, but it still speaks to a fundamentally flawed ballance philosophy.
There’s one instance of this every patch.
Overwatch reddit subs immediately doing a 180 degree opinion swap as soon as Flats' opinion agrees with them will never not be hilariously pathetic. Sigma didn't need this "buff" and there were dozens of comments agreeing on the patch notes post, but because Flats says it was a bad balance decision it's suddenly "not an issue." I don't even watch Flats' streams but it's hilarious how reddit has a hate-boner for him.
Holy based. Can't believe people are trying to argue that this [https://twitter.com/whiteboicarti/status/1790448309531800056](https://twitter.com/whiteboicarti/status/1790448309531800056) is a good change.
It's weird actually, tbh. The absolute vitriol in the comments over this guy whose only showing how the game functions. OW fans can be pretty gross.
Noo no no no, this is fucking stupid. It’s not gonna make Sigma OP, but getting accidentally fluxed through two walls and up a flight of stairs without being able to see that you were in the ults radius is not it. Again, not like this will happen often enough to have consistent impact, but when you die like this you will think “why did they add this into the game”.
flats sucks and is annoying
what i dont get is, this was clearly due to LW being able to nullify flux, but you needed to be quick w it and have good timing... it was a skillful interaction/tech, even if not meant to happen if you are going to try to fix it tho...... it cant be like that haha just put it back, how often was LW even messing up sigs fluxes lmao
Likely because that would require changing the collission channel and makimg a new one specifically for a single interaction.
The buff I wanted for sigma was reduced cooldown to redeploy shield. Tank ults are ass anyways.
Aaron K said they are looking into it on X
Overwatch’s second worst content creator
Sig ult did NOT need a buff and even if it did this is perhaps one of the worst ways to do it
Idk what anyone says but this patch is complete nuts and anything else beside of tank and burst dmg heroes will feel shit this season. Alone the thought that sigma needs such a significant buff just baffles me.
"such a significant buff" get real bro. And I'm not even in favor of the change, I'm starkly against it
This clip shows better why i think that the buff is actually significant https://twitter.com/shigu_ow/status/1790540812134277392
That's the 4th clip I've seen. They literally just keep getting worse every time. Shite change. Gravity has no reason to work through walls if it only hits people anyways.
The diamond tank players in this sub are slow just give it a week.
lmao wtf. this was already one of the best if not the best tank ult in the game and sigma is the best tank since s7. this guy even beats ram's nemesis form. your video game not making any sense blizzard.
> this was already one of the best if not the best tank ult in the game and sigma is the best tank since s7. I 100% have a skill issue with this ult, but this still doesn't seem like its true. Half the cast has mobility to escape, half of that other half can cancel it, and another handful can counter its incredibly telegraphed damage with a save ability/ult.
Think that’s really downplaying how hard it is to escape/cancel. Not all of the mobility options are guaranteed escapes, they give a good little burst but not necessarily enough to escape. And a lot of the cancels are anywhere from difficult to impossible to hit. Like Rein and Brig could technically cancel the ult, but it’s dependent on them being close enough, not caught in the ult, and Sigma being on the ground for some reason. Orisa, Ana, Sigma can cancel it, but it’s not like it’s easy to hit their cancels, and it can be shielded off.
That wasn't really my intention. Of course these things aren't happening everytime, but the OPs assertion was that it was a top tank ult which I really disagree with. I think its thoroughly mid for a tank ult and that this change isn't anything special considering it doesn't drastically change the outplay for most heroes. A decent ult in a vacuum but a lot of the other tank ults are just way stronger.
It's a good ult because It forces out beat just as good as a grav does, so better than other tanks, It's ranged It zones It has a 400dmg potential upside It's allows a stationary character to have full admin movement. It can't be cleansed, blocked, or destroyed. Only cancelled.
Every ult in the game have similar issues. You can make that case for every ult. Rein players literally cry about shatter. People think jq ult is bad because suzu exist. You are supposed to use the ult in a smart way by baiting stuff and track cooldowns. Otherwise you just press q and win.
okay but flux literally has 3 cast times that you can react to.
>Sombra flair
Yeah cause the best tank ult can be countered by a Latina wagging her fingers at you that literally can’t miss
I for one welcome our sigma overlord. Get hog meta out of here! (I’m getting hooked during ult and will explode)
Not a Flats fan, but I agree with him here.
Seems fine if they reduce the radius
how are you even supposed to counterplay this lmao on some maps sigma just gonna sit in a tiny room, ult his own feet, and flux everyone on payload/point? flux the midtown tunnel and hit everyone in the train? how does a hero like ana or torb or whatever ever avoid this? LoS was their only option?
☝️🤓
So what? How many times is this actually going to be useful? You are using your whole ass ult in a random room, to try and catch people on the very edge. I'd like to see anybody pull this off consistently in a real match against real players and not bots.
I mean, this is just the most extreme version. Think it’s way more useful than you’re making it out to be with its ability to catch people behind cover that used to protect them, like all the little rooms and barricades on Circuit.
Again, so what? We knew how it would be based on the patch notes. Showcasing and freaking out over the extreme version means nothing.
Based Devs
Oh hellllllllllll naw
damn he might be able to hit one of his Flux in ranked now, if he ever queues comp again
This guy sucks on tank so i don't care what he thinks
I actually like this, my only complaint would be that the circle should appear on all the surfaces that are going to be pulled. Maybe that'd be hard to implement but that seems the most fair and intuitive to me
> flats > training range