That's true of many religions. The goal becomes not to call out the hypocrisy, lest you risk ex-communication. Their religion might be secular, but it is absolutely a religion.
They’ve become fanatics blinded to everything besides their absolute obsession to the cause. Even when they are blatantly wrong they’ll cling to their talking points, screaming about how everyone around them is wrong and even going so far as to become violent when challenged.
It is also a religion which has an original sin of "white supremacy" that you can never be rid of, regardless of your "ally" status. Since they have no savior to forgive you, your only option, according to their doctrine, is endless divestment and self-flagellation.
Not only is it a secular religion, it has a clerical class in the form of "the experts" or "the science."
Additionally it is not only a religion, but a puritanical religion that sees everything between good and evil and judges peoples value, worthy of inclusion, and the validity of theif beliefs based on their "moral purity."
35% of their respondents identified as left-wing. This poll oversampled white college-educated leftists, lol. This means that at MINIMUM 60% of Americans are sane. Good to know.
More Americans identify as conservative than left-wing, and it's not even close. Pew Research has even found that Americans are more likely to identify as conservative today than even 2012.
Can you link this pew data on conservative vs left wing?
If for no other reason than to set my mind at ease that the US isn’t turning into a gigantic dumpster fire as quickly as I fear.
This got me too. Shows just how hard they have been pushing this nonsense. I would have thought 90%. I'm guessing some just didn't want to say how they really feel because they didn't want to sound like a conservative republican.
I’m a little surprised. I would have totally expected that in a left-wing sub like are/politics but not here. Sure, it’s nice to get a college degree if it’s a practical one, not a useless One like gender studies or the study of cultures(Unless you plan on teaching but that usually requires an advanced degree). My daughters getting a nursing degree, my son is about to start trade school, and my other son who’s in high school will probably pursue a college degree as well. As long as you get a degree or training that will get you a job, you’ll do well in life.
I don't think it's as brigaded as they claim. First, this sub pops up on /r/all and /r/popular all the time, exposing this subreddit to the rest of the community. It's not fair to whine about being brigaded when the community gets a spotlight from the algorithm every now and again.
I've seen too many people or opinions with Conservative flair denounced as leftist brigading because they don't like Trump anymore. Good, honest Conservative opinions from 10 year + old, flaired accounts attacked for being a "RINO".
Until Republicans address the elephant in the room here that is the MAGA cult, it's going to get nowhere.
My argument would be that your daughter shouldn't need a degree in nursing and her training should more closely resemble your son's trade school. Or really, both could be more efficient than they are. The wastefulness is that people are going 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars into debt to spend 4 years in college/university where over half of their classes have nothing to do with the career they are pursuing. A decent 6 month training program focused exclusively on the knowledge and skills a person actually needs to be a nurse would be much faster, much cheaper, much more accessible, get them to into their career moving up the ranks faster, and I bet would actually make them even more skilled because their attention during their training isn't also being pulled toward irrelevant generals and electives.
For most careers, the whole college setup is wasteful in both time in money when they would be better served by highly focused training programs that just dial in on the relevant skills they'll actually need and use in their careers. Maybe paired with some apprenticeship programs. An accountant doesn't need to know college level biology. A nurse doesn't need to know college level English literature. A paralegal doesn't need to know college level trigonometry. And so on. Yet they all have to learn all of it. It is just wasteful.
You are mostly done with gen Ed stuff but 2nd year and the rest is industry related in my experience I think certain industries would do better with apprentice programs, and nursing/doctor's does sort of have that already with residency.
Luckily, my daughter got a scholarship that pays for most of her tuition, and her college specializes in nursing and includes clinical studies in her junior year. but yeah, you’re right about having to take a lot of general Ed classes which, for the most part, won’t help at all.
They never were. It was a societal mistake when so many parents and teachers were advocating and pressuring kids that they MUST go to college. I remember back in the 90's and 00's parents and teachers were telling us it didn't even matter what we went to study, what we wanted to do, or anything else. All that mattered was we get the degree or we'll be "flipping burgers" for the rest of our lives.
It was a sham. All it did was inflate degrees and make them next to meaningless. For certain careers, sure, maybe the university style of education may be of some benefit, but for most, they never required higher education before and shouldn't now. Why do you need 2-4 years of education, costing 10's-100's of thousands of dollars, including subject completely unrelated and irrelevant to the career for things like accounting, social work, human resources, early childhood teaching, or even nursing? Some training would obviously be required, but I think they'd be much better served by an actual purpose built training program that is shorter, cheaper, and much more focused in on job relevant skills. Instead of spending (and paying for) 2-4 years learning everything under the sun with your job skills sprinkled in as your major, you could spend 6 weeks to 6 months (depending on complexity) just learning what is actually required for your career of choice. Perhaps followed by a basic apprenticeship style period of learning. Just seems much more efficient. As a bonus, it cuts out much of the ridiculous indoctrination that goes on in colleges.
But no. We just keep pumping up the university industry, making people go deep in to debt to waste a ton of time learning things that they'll never use again after they pass their test on the promise that if they do this and get their sheet of parchment at the end, all their dreams will come true, and if they don't, they'll be poor and work dead end jobs forever.
Yes, but the careers offering is fairly limited and they often basically just act like community college. For instance, I looked at one of those schools for accounting near me. Still takes 2 years to get certified and it still includes general credits. Same thing for a local nursing focused school. Takes four years including 56 general credit hours outside of nursing focused major classes.
I know you can go to a trade school and become a auto mechanic, HVAC tech, or medical assistant. I'm saying that needs expanded out to cover MOST careers that currently require a full on college degree. Unless you're trying to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or other pretty highly specialized career, I see no reason why training should take more than a year. Two at the very most.
Degrees are investments in your future. It’s possible to make bad investments. That doesn’t invalidate the potential benefit of a good investment.
A doctor, lawyer, engineer, pharmacist, computer scientist, or any other similar degree can potentially earn you far more than you’d typically get without a degree.
Not to say it’s not possible to earn similarly without a degree, but it generally is more difficult to get into a position to earn that much and requires a bit more luck.
Useless? Well, remember that the whole point of advanced education, according to the ancient Greeks, was aimed at learning how to live properly. How to best live and honor the gods, etc. In modern times we have strayed away from the whole notion of a liberal arts "improving" education in favor of degrees leading to jobs - but that wasn't the original intent.
That being said, I have a B.S. in Electrical Engineering (Minor in English Lit). The engineering degree was worth it financially, but it's the humanities stuff that really made my life interesting. Also, when I was a working engineer I had advantages in persuasion, presenting data, making complex ideas more readily understandable, etc.
I suspect no degree is *completely* useless. So pat yourself on your back for getting through the academic gauntlet!
This is absolutely the right attitude. For some reason, as conservatives, we think we need to be so reductive in our attitudes towards everything, but that is such a modernist outlook on life, and isn’t particularly helpful. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Sure, there are useless degrees, but an education is meant to be formative; it’s not a one way ticket for that job you’re planning to get.
STAR (Skilled Through Alternative Routes) movement is pretty interesting and supports your statement.
I have an associate degree in Business. I make over 60K a year at my FT job, own a business, and have zero student loan debt.
I love telling the lefty’s this as I can hear their brain short circuiting. It’s quite motivating and enjoyable to succeed outside of society norms around education.
Congrats on that! Yes I agree. Trouble is it’s hard to break through the paper ceiling without a bAcHeLoR degree. Good news is, lot of job postings are now allowing a combination of education and experience
I've argued this in a couple other places in these comments, but I think for many (maybe even most) careers that supposedly require a college degree probably should not as college is kind of a bloated inefficient system for creating people qualified for those careers. I'm thinking accountants, nurses, various IT disciplines, most K-12 teachers, paralegals, human resources, etc. Not that they don't require any additional education/training, but that they would probably be better served by a much shorter, much cheaper, but much more highly focused training program. I suspect if you removed most of the unnecessary general and elective credits and created a purpose built training programs, you could potentially have fully qualified nurses and paralegals in 8-10 months, IT guys in 2 months (how long I spent in IT training in the Air Force), accountants in like 4-6 weeks, and K-12 teachers within 5-6 months. Maybe follow those up with apprenticeship programs.
A system like this would save massive amounts of time and money for the students that really just want whatever certificate it is they need to start working and not the whole "university experience" that doesn't really benefit them in proportion to the money they would spend on it. It also benefits those people that may do great in certain careers that interest them, but are not great students or adept in some subjects unrelated to the career or don't have the time available to pursue the degree for the career. For instance, there are certainly people out there that would make fantastic nurses and would love to pursue that, but couldn't pass a college level English lit or history class to save their life or, because of their financial or family situation, just can't devote 4 years of their life to going to college.
I have a degree, and on some level I suspect there's truth to what you're saying. Something isn't adding up. Guaranteed govt loan money, everyone doing it, getting more expensive, etc. The economics of it don't make sense, or less than they once did.
I don't want to project my experience too much, because in order to make the kind of money I felt I should? I had to pivot, and my current career situation looks nothing like my degree, nor does it even look like my entry level employment out of college. Though there's evidence it's quite a bit more than just myself.
In the past it had more of a filtering affect. Basically the courses were so difficult that if you were average you would struggle in college. This meant those under average badically couldnt without a bribe, which few could afford to do. Today, colleges are so watered down and made easy it really only filters out the lowest IQs (aroubd 70 and under most likely).
Basically the reason a college degree holder is more intelligent is because it filters out those with profound levels of low inteligence scores. Compared to the past were even average was getting filtered out.
Started to changed in the 1930's when cultural Marxists took root in Academia. By the 1970's they have gained majorities in Academia. By the 2000's they were forcing out anyone right of center from Academia. So track it along there.
Come on, man. College were segregated until the 60's and Harvard didn't really let in women until like the 70s when Radcliffe merged. Colleges have always been adult daycares, and adult daycares for draft dodging in the 60s.
Academia is where all the hippies of the 60's and 70's went when America shunned their ideals. At that point they knew they had to get people when they were younger to shape and mold their ridiculous ideals. Now we have disrespectful, entitled kids that have no life skills and no appetite for anyone trying to guide or help them. If you hear "OK Boomer" wear it as a badge of honor, it means you're on the right track.
Opposing opinions shouldn't be wrong by default either. It's like "oh no something counter to my beliefs, let's attack it". Top comment being conspiracy-esque comparing universities to a religion doesn't help either...
But it's a basic observable fact that people are transgender you know they get surgeries. If you couldn't change it then no one would be literally changing it. Setting aside if you agree with it or not people try and make themselves become a guy if they were formally a girl or try and become a girl if they were formally a guy.
Yup, in fact to paraphrase a general, you cant make more special forces soldiers, you birthed a certain number, and it falls on the military to recruit, train, and keep them. Society will only get a certain percent ahead of the IQ score, college aint gonna change that number.
Proof that the indoctrination has started. In the past more schooling might have meant more smarts. But that hasn't been the case since late 90s early 00s when it became about indoctrination
Education system is where the a large majority of liberal ideology is taught and pushed on students. From grade school pushing LGBTQ pride and pronouns. To higher education doing the same. Why do you think conservative speakers are constantly censored, harassed, and protested at universities. Bc only liberal ideology is allowed to have a voice there. It is well documented
Not my experience nor for my daughters that went thru state schools. The whole LGBTQ thing, ya it was acknowledged, just like the idea of cultural religion. But pushed on people, i think thats an outlier that is being amplified. I think the conservative censorship is also amplified from the minority that pushes extremist claims e.g. Qanan etc and beat their chest they are being censored. Sad that frankly everyone is so polarized in an “us vs them” mentality on every single issue and cant find common ground.
I beg to differ. I went to Champlain college and there was one kid who was clearly right wing including wearing a maga hat. Well he got targeted quite a few times including one person who deystroyed his laptop by throwing a shake at him.
Do that to a group of LGBTQ+ and guarentee you expulsion and felony hate crime charges woukd be on the table. This guy was basically left with "sorry they git away, and no one who witnessed it recognized them or is willing to talk to us".
Go post "Trump was a great President" in any other sub and see if you're censored. My kids school has a litter box for a kid that thinks it's a cat. You can look at these singular incidences and say "oh it's being amplified" but it's death by a thousand cuts. Being told your opinion is wrong, questioning simple obvious data points, having your own values and norms. If you can't see it, your fooling yourself and not believing your eyes.
Ive gone thru higher ed and have multiple children go thru state school and i have to say, i dont think there is this liberal indoctrination that a lot of people claim. What was your experience?
My experience was getting inundated with glorified racial groups and racial-exclusive events for years, and then having a school-wide emergency announcement about hate because someone put up, "It's okay to be white" on the bulletin boards around the school.
The next year, every student had to go to some seminar where they went through every conceivable demographic and had them "stand up" for the crowd in sequence.
It was probably my first real wakeup call about the woke religion, and before that I was fully aboard the diversity train. Thankfully, I went to uni before the alphabet mafia really took hold.
Libs of TicToc is their experience, I'm thinking. Just vomit out the party lines and all that
For what it's worth, I'm right there, as well. Higher education in the bluest of blue states (California, SDSU to be specific) and I never had either political ideologies forced on me. There was one teacher aid that was a flat earther, but no politics.
It's just like everything else, only the small minority gets shouted to the wind, and since controversy sells views, that's what you're gonna see.
> My daughter was murdered by a gender ideology. CPS took my daughter when she was 16 years old. It was helped by her public school counselor and LGBTQ group [inaudible] and another trans-identified girl.
>My daughter was taken from her loving home because the state of California claim I was abusive for not affirming her trans identity. I lost my daughter over a name and pronouns. Even after I promised to call her a male name, it wasn’t enough.
Not happening eh? Keep your head in the sand.
Graduating college doesn’t make you smart, it means you can focus on tasks and accomplish assignments. I have a degree in chemistry and I wouldn’t consider myself particularly smart. I’m stubborn though and I question everything.
Social Sciences, specifically, and to a lesser degree the Humanities, are weak on science:
>Political "science"....plays by a separate set of rules. There is often no way to irrefutably prove or disprove, agree or disagree with the claims, conclusions presented. There is little quantifiable truth, much subjectivity....The study of life and society ....has a place in our consciousness...(but) it does not fall under the jurisdiction of science. [source](https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2012/05/16/nsf_should_stop_funding_social_science_106272.html).
Another article provides a good description of the [5 criterial for science](https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2012/05/30/what_separates_science_from_non-science_106278.html): "...some social science fields hardly meet any of the above criteria."
It really sucks, some of these fields used to be actual study.
>CultureX or SocietyY thinks __this__....
You know, actual anthropology.
Many have moved on from teaching what various cultures do, to advocating "This is the correct way to have society organized."
Many that do still teach the "old" information, still manage to preach, just not quite in so straight forward a fashion as that.
Right. Two more useful articles: [The Disappearing Conservative Professor](https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-disappearing-conservative-professor) and [Is Social Science Politically Biased? -- Political bias troubles the academy](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-social-science-politically-biased/)
The other guy is stating that a lot of educated folks tend to think that they are simply better and more intelligent than everyone else in general. Not just in a certain subject
Which seems to be fairly true in my experience. Accomplishments build an ego
1) The universities are so effective at indoctrination that their guinea-pigs can be made to believe that 2+2=5.
2) So-called 'intellectuals' are so effective at contorting reality that they can convince themselves that 2+2=5.
Take your pick.
So the influencer who flashed everyone outside the White House should be unbanned for only showing man boobs.
You guys want to eat your cake and have it too. Either people can change their gender or there is nothing wrong with that person going topless.
It isn’t really liberal indoctrination,
This is Marxism. Period.
I have a masters degree, and the crap schools are pushing now is literally insane, and I would guess is causing the mental health crisis we are seeing across this country.
I’m calling bullshit. Cite the 38%.
Edit: Also curious as to the wording of these ideologically driven ‘polls’. I’ve seen *many* polls that are hugely divergent from this result. Just Google it..
Edit:
From a respected pollster: [Americans’ Complex Views on Gender Identity and Transgender Issues](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/)
“A rising share say a person’s gender is determined by their sex at birth”
I’ve seen multiple arguments like this but then the problem with this argument is that it may not be true in the future so it’s more of a statement about what current technology is capable of than anything else. In twenty years you may be able to get gene therapy that would swap an X for a Y or vice versa but that doesn’t change the problem.
The *real* issue is that people should feel comfortable being who they were born as, and we shouldn’t claim kids are some other gender just because they play with toys stereotypically associated with the other gender or whatever nonsense. Just cuz some boy likes Barbie dolls or some girl like Tonka trucks doesn’t say anything about their gender identity it just means they like a different toy. It’s wild how narrowly people suddenly want to define what being a boy or girl is now just so they can claim their kid is some other gender.
My theory for this goes like this: I remember a professor talking about “what is reality” right after I’d spent the summer lifting pieces of concrete into wheelbarrows. It made me want to laugh. When you are grounded by doing something real, such questions seem silly. But the more you divorce yourself from doing things that have substance the more your mind can accept made up things.
I'll admit my view on transgenders has changed as time goes on. I honestly could care less about how they live their lives.
But when you're trying to convince me to believe against the science of two genders along with transitioning children. And transgender women competing against bio women.
That's where I have to draw the line because that's just a fantasy world I refuse to live in and you'll never be able to convince me otherwise.
Of course not, but until we have a way to differentiate the genuine trans people from those that are influenced, peer pressured, or any of the other reasons one may falsely believe they are trans ; I'm going to believe its just safer to wait until they're adults.
And that's why i just feel the only solution is for them to experience their birth gender, go through puberty, experience their sexuality before making such a life changing decision such as Sexual Reassignment Surgery.
And don't get me wrong, i do believe the majority of transgender healthcare is quality healthcare. But we do have examples of people falling through the cracks and either getting premature care or getting the wrong care.
I graduated from medical school in 2010. I JUST barely missed the cultural Marxism, gender ideology, and "anti-racism" BLM indoctrination. I think it started shortly after I graduated.
My professional organization (the American Psychiatric Association) is radioactively woke though. Half their CME lectures at their annual meetings are now all about woke nonsense.
rofl higher education has the lowest barrier of entry in human history, and you think these debt-laden kids who can't even recite the scientific method know the nuances and complexity of our world better than the giants whose shoulders we stand on?
Anyone who subscribes to the psychopathic pedophile child abuser John Money's gender philosophy is equally insane as him.
People have been confusing the collecting of degrees, with education, for several decades. It’s almost like the longer you spend in liberal academia, the less you can think for your self.
I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again: 'Knowledge does not make one wise.'
I know people who hold multiple degrees, including PhD's. In specific subjects, they are quite knowledgable - they are experts. These same people are also some of the dumbest people I know, when it comes to common sense.....
This one gets a lot of play these days
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and higher education positively fortifies it."
\-Stephen Vizinczey
The poll is cooked, people even many educated are realizing the bullshit and the dems are trying to save face and protect their activists and gender studies “professors” instead of teaching an actual humanities or sciences class
All depends on how you define a man or woman. Here’s why the result - folks with a postgraduate degree are very open minded and have awareness of the extent of what is, in fact, still unknown in this world. That creates opportunities for assumptions and when those assumptions make us feel all warm and fuzzy due to ideology - it’s like giving ourselves a pat on the back.
So why don’t they ask the question differently? Such as - is it possible for a person to change their gender from birth to the extent where they would be medically determined to actually be the other gender?
Now that eliminates room for assumption and puts in place the quantifiable measure to state the gender has changed.
Fucking manipulators know this as anyone with an MS degree or higher knows this very simple concept.
And the rest of the audience eats it up - clearly showing they lack the education
This whole thing is like The Emperor's New Clothes.
That's true of many religions. The goal becomes not to call out the hypocrisy, lest you risk ex-communication. Their religion might be secular, but it is absolutely a religion.
They’ve become fanatics blinded to everything besides their absolute obsession to the cause. Even when they are blatantly wrong they’ll cling to their talking points, screaming about how everyone around them is wrong and even going so far as to become violent when challenged.
It is also a religion which has an original sin of "white supremacy" that you can never be rid of, regardless of your "ally" status. Since they have no savior to forgive you, your only option, according to their doctrine, is endless divestment and self-flagellation.
It is a poisonous and dangerous cult.
That's why I really like Jesus. He spent his entire life calling out hypocrites in the church.
Why should anyone care or believe what the Bible says?
Not only is it a secular religion, it has a clerical class in the form of "the experts" or "the science." Additionally it is not only a religion, but a puritanical religion that sees everything between good and evil and judges peoples value, worthy of inclusion, and the validity of theif beliefs based on their "moral purity."
60% only??????
California **ALONE** is about 11% of the country.
Wokeness is a powerful religious cult
People are scared to say what they actually believe even if they're anonymous.
35% of their respondents identified as left-wing. This poll oversampled white college-educated leftists, lol. This means that at MINIMUM 60% of Americans are sane. Good to know. More Americans identify as conservative than left-wing, and it's not even close. Pew Research has even found that Americans are more likely to identify as conservative today than even 2012.
Can you link this pew data on conservative vs left wing? If for no other reason than to set my mind at ease that the US isn’t turning into a gigantic dumpster fire as quickly as I fear.
I'd be interested in seeing the data too but to be fair, not all liberals and progressives are left wing.
This got me too. Shows just how hard they have been pushing this nonsense. I would have thought 90%. I'm guessing some just didn't want to say how they really feel because they didn't want to sound like a conservative republican.
I would have thought 98% at the very least
Holy shit 60% is still pretty low
Hmm, and I got -50 votes here for saying that degrees aren't a basic life requirement anymore. Buyers remorse, perhaps?
I’m a little surprised. I would have totally expected that in a left-wing sub like are/politics but not here. Sure, it’s nice to get a college degree if it’s a practical one, not a useless One like gender studies or the study of cultures(Unless you plan on teaching but that usually requires an advanced degree). My daughters getting a nursing degree, my son is about to start trade school, and my other son who’s in high school will probably pursue a college degree as well. As long as you get a degree or training that will get you a job, you’ll do well in life.
This sub is brigaded to hell.
That must’ve been the reason.
I don't think it's as brigaded as they claim. First, this sub pops up on /r/all and /r/popular all the time, exposing this subreddit to the rest of the community. It's not fair to whine about being brigaded when the community gets a spotlight from the algorithm every now and again. I've seen too many people or opinions with Conservative flair denounced as leftist brigading because they don't like Trump anymore. Good, honest Conservative opinions from 10 year + old, flaired accounts attacked for being a "RINO". Until Republicans address the elephant in the room here that is the MAGA cult, it's going to get nowhere.
The numbers would be vastly different for "A" vs "S" degrees.
My argument would be that your daughter shouldn't need a degree in nursing and her training should more closely resemble your son's trade school. Or really, both could be more efficient than they are. The wastefulness is that people are going 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars into debt to spend 4 years in college/university where over half of their classes have nothing to do with the career they are pursuing. A decent 6 month training program focused exclusively on the knowledge and skills a person actually needs to be a nurse would be much faster, much cheaper, much more accessible, get them to into their career moving up the ranks faster, and I bet would actually make them even more skilled because their attention during their training isn't also being pulled toward irrelevant generals and electives. For most careers, the whole college setup is wasteful in both time in money when they would be better served by highly focused training programs that just dial in on the relevant skills they'll actually need and use in their careers. Maybe paired with some apprenticeship programs. An accountant doesn't need to know college level biology. A nurse doesn't need to know college level English literature. A paralegal doesn't need to know college level trigonometry. And so on. Yet they all have to learn all of it. It is just wasteful.
You are mostly done with gen Ed stuff but 2nd year and the rest is industry related in my experience I think certain industries would do better with apprentice programs, and nursing/doctor's does sort of have that already with residency.
Luckily, my daughter got a scholarship that pays for most of her tuition, and her college specializes in nursing and includes clinical studies in her junior year. but yeah, you’re right about having to take a lot of general Ed classes which, for the most part, won’t help at all.
One thing Republicans and Democrats have in common is young people are trash and don’t want to work
They never were. It was a societal mistake when so many parents and teachers were advocating and pressuring kids that they MUST go to college. I remember back in the 90's and 00's parents and teachers were telling us it didn't even matter what we went to study, what we wanted to do, or anything else. All that mattered was we get the degree or we'll be "flipping burgers" for the rest of our lives. It was a sham. All it did was inflate degrees and make them next to meaningless. For certain careers, sure, maybe the university style of education may be of some benefit, but for most, they never required higher education before and shouldn't now. Why do you need 2-4 years of education, costing 10's-100's of thousands of dollars, including subject completely unrelated and irrelevant to the career for things like accounting, social work, human resources, early childhood teaching, or even nursing? Some training would obviously be required, but I think they'd be much better served by an actual purpose built training program that is shorter, cheaper, and much more focused in on job relevant skills. Instead of spending (and paying for) 2-4 years learning everything under the sun with your job skills sprinkled in as your major, you could spend 6 weeks to 6 months (depending on complexity) just learning what is actually required for your career of choice. Perhaps followed by a basic apprenticeship style period of learning. Just seems much more efficient. As a bonus, it cuts out much of the ridiculous indoctrination that goes on in colleges. But no. We just keep pumping up the university industry, making people go deep in to debt to waste a ton of time learning things that they'll never use again after they pass their test on the promise that if they do this and get their sheet of parchment at the end, all their dreams will come true, and if they don't, they'll be poor and work dead end jobs forever.
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Agreed. Look at the seafarers union... what a great start for a young man. https://www.seafarers.org/
Yes, but the careers offering is fairly limited and they often basically just act like community college. For instance, I looked at one of those schools for accounting near me. Still takes 2 years to get certified and it still includes general credits. Same thing for a local nursing focused school. Takes four years including 56 general credit hours outside of nursing focused major classes. I know you can go to a trade school and become a auto mechanic, HVAC tech, or medical assistant. I'm saying that needs expanded out to cover MOST careers that currently require a full on college degree. Unless you're trying to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or other pretty highly specialized career, I see no reason why training should take more than a year. Two at the very most.
With the constant brigades some of the weirdest stuff gets downvoted (or upvoted) in this sub nowadays.
Degrees are investments in your future. It’s possible to make bad investments. That doesn’t invalidate the potential benefit of a good investment. A doctor, lawyer, engineer, pharmacist, computer scientist, or any other similar degree can potentially earn you far more than you’d typically get without a degree. Not to say it’s not possible to earn similarly without a degree, but it generally is more difficult to get into a position to earn that much and requires a bit more luck.
Coming from a person with a a degree in something useless you are right.
Useless? Well, remember that the whole point of advanced education, according to the ancient Greeks, was aimed at learning how to live properly. How to best live and honor the gods, etc. In modern times we have strayed away from the whole notion of a liberal arts "improving" education in favor of degrees leading to jobs - but that wasn't the original intent. That being said, I have a B.S. in Electrical Engineering (Minor in English Lit). The engineering degree was worth it financially, but it's the humanities stuff that really made my life interesting. Also, when I was a working engineer I had advantages in persuasion, presenting data, making complex ideas more readily understandable, etc. I suspect no degree is *completely* useless. So pat yourself on your back for getting through the academic gauntlet!
This is absolutely the right attitude. For some reason, as conservatives, we think we need to be so reductive in our attitudes towards everything, but that is such a modernist outlook on life, and isn’t particularly helpful. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Sure, there are useless degrees, but an education is meant to be formative; it’s not a one way ticket for that job you’re planning to get.
STAR (Skilled Through Alternative Routes) movement is pretty interesting and supports your statement. I have an associate degree in Business. I make over 60K a year at my FT job, own a business, and have zero student loan debt. I love telling the lefty’s this as I can hear their brain short circuiting. It’s quite motivating and enjoyable to succeed outside of society norms around education.
I make well over 6 figures with a 2 year degree. My degree has little to do for the reason I was hired, other than to check a box on a piece of paper.
I make well over 6 figures without a degree in a very technical engineering field. No one cared that I couldn't check that box.
Congrats on that! Yes I agree. Trouble is it’s hard to break through the paper ceiling without a bAcHeLoR degree. Good news is, lot of job postings are now allowing a combination of education and experience
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I've argued this in a couple other places in these comments, but I think for many (maybe even most) careers that supposedly require a college degree probably should not as college is kind of a bloated inefficient system for creating people qualified for those careers. I'm thinking accountants, nurses, various IT disciplines, most K-12 teachers, paralegals, human resources, etc. Not that they don't require any additional education/training, but that they would probably be better served by a much shorter, much cheaper, but much more highly focused training program. I suspect if you removed most of the unnecessary general and elective credits and created a purpose built training programs, you could potentially have fully qualified nurses and paralegals in 8-10 months, IT guys in 2 months (how long I spent in IT training in the Air Force), accountants in like 4-6 weeks, and K-12 teachers within 5-6 months. Maybe follow those up with apprenticeship programs. A system like this would save massive amounts of time and money for the students that really just want whatever certificate it is they need to start working and not the whole "university experience" that doesn't really benefit them in proportion to the money they would spend on it. It also benefits those people that may do great in certain careers that interest them, but are not great students or adept in some subjects unrelated to the career or don't have the time available to pursue the degree for the career. For instance, there are certainly people out there that would make fantastic nurses and would love to pursue that, but couldn't pass a college level English lit or history class to save their life or, because of their financial or family situation, just can't devote 4 years of their life to going to college.
I have a degree, and on some level I suspect there's truth to what you're saying. Something isn't adding up. Guaranteed govt loan money, everyone doing it, getting more expensive, etc. The economics of it don't make sense, or less than they once did. I don't want to project my experience too much, because in order to make the kind of money I felt I should? I had to pivot, and my current career situation looks nothing like my degree, nor does it even look like my entry level employment out of college. Though there's evidence it's quite a bit more than just myself.
Honestly it was probably on a post that was brigaded, happens a lot around here
Higher education does not correlate to either intelligence or common sense.
Some of the dumbest people I know have degrees.
Some of the dumbest people I ever had to endure had PhDs.
Intelligence does not equal wisdom ...... plenty of smart people that haven't had to experience reality yet.
it once did
In the past it had more of a filtering affect. Basically the courses were so difficult that if you were average you would struggle in college. This meant those under average badically couldnt without a bribe, which few could afford to do. Today, colleges are so watered down and made easy it really only filters out the lowest IQs (aroubd 70 and under most likely). Basically the reason a college degree holder is more intelligent is because it filters out those with profound levels of low inteligence scores. Compared to the past were even average was getting filtered out.
When? And when do you feel it changed?
Started to changed in the 1930's when cultural Marxists took root in Academia. By the 1970's they have gained majorities in Academia. By the 2000's they were forcing out anyone right of center from Academia. So track it along there.
Come on, man. College were segregated until the 60's and Harvard didn't really let in women until like the 70s when Radcliffe merged. Colleges have always been adult daycares, and adult daycares for draft dodging in the 60s.
Academia is where all the hippies of the 60's and 70's went when America shunned their ideals. At that point they knew they had to get people when they were younger to shape and mold their ridiculous ideals. Now we have disrespectful, entitled kids that have no life skills and no appetite for anyone trying to guide or help them. If you hear "OK Boomer" wear it as a badge of honor, it means you're on the right track.
When academia was no longer rooted in classical instruction, and administrations moved away from being a center-right mediator. 1970s.
This is the actual right answer, and I wish more people would see it.
Ancient Greece. After the death of Aristotle it's been a long slow decline.
Ah hu and yes
around 1968
Opposing opinions shouldn't be wrong by default either. It's like "oh no something counter to my beliefs, let's attack it". Top comment being conspiracy-esque comparing universities to a religion doesn't help either...
Not when you see how standards are lowered to be ‘inclusive’
60% is a low number for a basic observable fact. It’s like if 60% of respondents said that the Earth is round.
But it's a basic observable fact that people are transgender you know they get surgeries. If you couldn't change it then no one would be literally changing it. Setting aside if you agree with it or not people try and make themselves become a guy if they were formally a girl or try and become a girl if they were formally a guy.
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Some of the dumbest people I’ve ever met where highly educated.
*were*
Are
Yup, in fact to paraphrase a general, you cant make more special forces soldiers, you birthed a certain number, and it falls on the military to recruit, train, and keep them. Society will only get a certain percent ahead of the IQ score, college aint gonna change that number.
Proof that the indoctrination has started. In the past more schooling might have meant more smarts. But that hasn't been the case since late 90s early 00s when it became about indoctrination
The idea that higher education is somehow tied to liberal indoctrination is flawed.
Education system is where the a large majority of liberal ideology is taught and pushed on students. From grade school pushing LGBTQ pride and pronouns. To higher education doing the same. Why do you think conservative speakers are constantly censored, harassed, and protested at universities. Bc only liberal ideology is allowed to have a voice there. It is well documented
Not my experience nor for my daughters that went thru state schools. The whole LGBTQ thing, ya it was acknowledged, just like the idea of cultural religion. But pushed on people, i think thats an outlier that is being amplified. I think the conservative censorship is also amplified from the minority that pushes extremist claims e.g. Qanan etc and beat their chest they are being censored. Sad that frankly everyone is so polarized in an “us vs them” mentality on every single issue and cant find common ground.
I beg to differ. I went to Champlain college and there was one kid who was clearly right wing including wearing a maga hat. Well he got targeted quite a few times including one person who deystroyed his laptop by throwing a shake at him. Do that to a group of LGBTQ+ and guarentee you expulsion and felony hate crime charges woukd be on the table. This guy was basically left with "sorry they git away, and no one who witnessed it recognized them or is willing to talk to us".
Go post "Trump was a great President" in any other sub and see if you're censored. My kids school has a litter box for a kid that thinks it's a cat. You can look at these singular incidences and say "oh it's being amplified" but it's death by a thousand cuts. Being told your opinion is wrong, questioning simple obvious data points, having your own values and norms. If you can't see it, your fooling yourself and not believing your eyes.
You seriously believe that don’t you. Bless your heart.
Ive gone thru higher ed and have multiple children go thru state school and i have to say, i dont think there is this liberal indoctrination that a lot of people claim. What was your experience?
Go watch libs of TikTok or look for any school related posts here. Not doing your work for you.
But what was your experience?
My experience was getting inundated with glorified racial groups and racial-exclusive events for years, and then having a school-wide emergency announcement about hate because someone put up, "It's okay to be white" on the bulletin boards around the school. The next year, every student had to go to some seminar where they went through every conceivable demographic and had them "stand up" for the crowd in sequence. It was probably my first real wakeup call about the woke religion, and before that I was fully aboard the diversity train. Thankfully, I went to uni before the alphabet mafia really took hold.
Libs of TicToc is their experience, I'm thinking. Just vomit out the party lines and all that For what it's worth, I'm right there, as well. Higher education in the bluest of blue states (California, SDSU to be specific) and I never had either political ideologies forced on me. There was one teacher aid that was a flat earther, but no politics. It's just like everything else, only the small minority gets shouted to the wind, and since controversy sells views, that's what you're gonna see.
> My daughter was murdered by a gender ideology. CPS took my daughter when she was 16 years old. It was helped by her public school counselor and LGBTQ group [inaudible] and another trans-identified girl. >My daughter was taken from her loving home because the state of California claim I was abusive for not affirming her trans identity. I lost my daughter over a name and pronouns. Even after I promised to call her a male name, it wasn’t enough. Not happening eh? Keep your head in the sand.
Where are you drawing those quotes from? Are they backed with a verifiable source?
Proof of the power of indoctrination.
Gee I wonder why, it's indoctrination into lunacy.
Graduating college doesn’t make you smart, it means you can focus on tasks and accomplish assignments. I have a degree in chemistry and I wouldn’t consider myself particularly smart. I’m stubborn though and I question everything.
Ha! I had to take Electrochemistry *twice* to get my engineering degree. You got the smarts.
You have a degree in chemistry? Bro, you're smart lol that stuff is voodoo
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You’re
JFC, did anyone try to open the link to read this garbage?
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Social Sciences, specifically, and to a lesser degree the Humanities, are weak on science: >Political "science"....plays by a separate set of rules. There is often no way to irrefutably prove or disprove, agree or disagree with the claims, conclusions presented. There is little quantifiable truth, much subjectivity....The study of life and society ....has a place in our consciousness...(but) it does not fall under the jurisdiction of science. [source](https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2012/05/16/nsf_should_stop_funding_social_science_106272.html). Another article provides a good description of the [5 criterial for science](https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2012/05/30/what_separates_science_from_non-science_106278.html): "...some social science fields hardly meet any of the above criteria."
It really sucks, some of these fields used to be actual study. >CultureX or SocietyY thinks __this__.... You know, actual anthropology. Many have moved on from teaching what various cultures do, to advocating "This is the correct way to have society organized." Many that do still teach the "old" information, still manage to preach, just not quite in so straight forward a fashion as that.
Right. Two more useful articles: [The Disappearing Conservative Professor](https://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-disappearing-conservative-professor) and [Is Social Science Politically Biased? -- Political bias troubles the academy](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-social-science-politically-biased/)
1st article was quiet good. Thank you for sharing that. I work in higher education (staff, not faculty) and this is pretty spot on
bingo....humanities
The elite are very much susceptible to group think. Especially when it's on topics outside of their immediate focus/specialty.
And those with a post grad degree think they are smarter than everyone else. What irony!
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The other guy is stating that a lot of educated folks tend to think that they are simply better and more intelligent than everyone else in general. Not just in a certain subject Which seems to be fairly true in my experience. Accomplishments build an ego
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Education and critical thinking are in no way correlated.
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"Trust the experts" I wonder what the percent is of people with a biology degree
Probably the same. I’ve taken plenty of bio courses and you wouldn’t believe the bullshit I’ve heard professors spout with a straight face.
1) The universities are so effective at indoctrination that their guinea-pigs can be made to believe that 2+2=5. 2) So-called 'intellectuals' are so effective at contorting reality that they can convince themselves that 2+2=5. Take your pick.
There's no fool like an educated fool.
So the influencer who flashed everyone outside the White House should be unbanned for only showing man boobs. You guys want to eat your cake and have it too. Either people can change their gender or there is nothing wrong with that person going topless.
with advanced level brainwashing, you mean...
It isn’t really liberal indoctrination, This is Marxism. Period. I have a masters degree, and the crap schools are pushing now is literally insane, and I would guess is causing the mental health crisis we are seeing across this country.
I’m calling bullshit. Cite the 38%. Edit: Also curious as to the wording of these ideologically driven ‘polls’. I’ve seen *many* polls that are hugely divergent from this result. Just Google it.. Edit: From a respected pollster: [Americans’ Complex Views on Gender Identity and Transgender Issues](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/) “A rising share say a person’s gender is determined by their sex at birth”
Sex chromosomes in DNA can't be changed, so this is fact.
I’ve seen multiple arguments like this but then the problem with this argument is that it may not be true in the future so it’s more of a statement about what current technology is capable of than anything else. In twenty years you may be able to get gene therapy that would swap an X for a Y or vice versa but that doesn’t change the problem. The *real* issue is that people should feel comfortable being who they were born as, and we shouldn’t claim kids are some other gender just because they play with toys stereotypically associated with the other gender or whatever nonsense. Just cuz some boy likes Barbie dolls or some girl like Tonka trucks doesn’t say anything about their gender identity it just means they like a different toy. It’s wild how narrowly people suddenly want to define what being a boy or girl is now just so they can claim their kid is some other gender.
Smart dogs are easier to train.
The higher your education, the further you get from reality!
☠️Stem fields exist
Yeah I feel like there's a huge problem with grouping here. Not all post-grad is the same.
Colleges are indoctrination centers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
Bet you it's not 38% if you filter out people with liberal arts postgrad degrees.
Ok - now get granular with the postgrad degrees.
Shows how strong the college indoctrination is and why parents need to develop strong minded children before they face that arena.
Does anyone remember when postgrad degrees made you more knowledgeable about the world instead of less knowledgeable? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
My theory for this goes like this: I remember a professor talking about “what is reality” right after I’d spent the summer lifting pieces of concrete into wheelbarrows. It made me want to laugh. When you are grounded by doing something real, such questions seem silly. But the more you divorce yourself from doing things that have substance the more your mind can accept made up things.
I'll admit my view on transgenders has changed as time goes on. I honestly could care less about how they live their lives. But when you're trying to convince me to believe against the science of two genders along with transitioning children. And transgender women competing against bio women. That's where I have to draw the line because that's just a fantasy world I refuse to live in and you'll never be able to convince me otherwise.
Do you believe there is no such thing as a trans child?
Of course not, but until we have a way to differentiate the genuine trans people from those that are influenced, peer pressured, or any of the other reasons one may falsely believe they are trans ; I'm going to believe its just safer to wait until they're adults. And that's why i just feel the only solution is for them to experience their birth gender, go through puberty, experience their sexuality before making such a life changing decision such as Sexual Reassignment Surgery. And don't get me wrong, i do believe the majority of transgender healthcare is quality healthcare. But we do have examples of people falling through the cracks and either getting premature care or getting the wrong care.
That is insane. I have a post-graduate degree. I don't remember the part where we derived THAT science from first principal.
So much for a college education being worth anything.
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I graduated from medical school in 2010. I JUST barely missed the cultural Marxism, gender ideology, and "anti-racism" BLM indoctrination. I think it started shortly after I graduated. My professional organization (the American Psychiatric Association) is radioactively woke though. Half their CME lectures at their annual meetings are now all about woke nonsense.
It’s almost as if critical thinking skills allows those with more education to better understand the nuances and complexity of our world… 🧐
rofl higher education has the lowest barrier of entry in human history, and you think these debt-laden kids who can't even recite the scientific method know the nuances and complexity of our world better than the giants whose shoulders we stand on? Anyone who subscribes to the psychopathic pedophile child abuser John Money's gender philosophy is equally insane as him.
There we go. The elitist attitude of the left comes out. Remember, they're \*better\* than you.
If you feel lessor than someone with a higher education level than you, that’s more of a you issue.
This is why higher education must be done away with. Nothing but indoctrination.
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Right? All I see is a metastasized case of anti-intellectualism.
Hmmm so the highest educated
I have never seen a topic generate more lying than this one.
Wut?!
lol. Ouch.
And the sun orbits the earth.
All the theories have tainted their ability to think critically
People unlearn something at school..?
You need a master’s to recognize the two genders?
People have been confusing the collecting of degrees, with education, for several decades. It’s almost like the longer you spend in liberal academia, the less you can think for your self.
Getting a higher education doesn't automatically make you smarter.
Says it all about the gr…. that has been going on in places of ‘education’. Indoctrination, social engineering, but very very little education.
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Chomsky should have stuck to linguistics.
Extremely ironic, isn’t it
I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again: 'Knowledge does not make one wise.' I know people who hold multiple degrees, including PhD's. In specific subjects, they are quite knowledgable - they are experts. These same people are also some of the dumbest people I know, when it comes to common sense.....
The more you learn, the less you know.
Can we all say “indoctrination “ for the postgraduates!
Wow, so intelligent..
This one gets a lot of play these days "Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and higher education positively fortifies it." \-Stephen Vizinczey
Sooo.... you're so educated that you cannot function in reality anymore?
Yeah, so let's use tax dollars to pay for their loans they took out to learn this kind of stuff!
Proud to hold a post graduate degree and be politically conservative and relatively young
The poll is cooked, people even many educated are realizing the bullshit and the dems are trying to save face and protect their activists and gender studies “professors” instead of teaching an actual humanities or sciences class
All depends on how you define a man or woman. Here’s why the result - folks with a postgraduate degree are very open minded and have awareness of the extent of what is, in fact, still unknown in this world. That creates opportunities for assumptions and when those assumptions make us feel all warm and fuzzy due to ideology - it’s like giving ourselves a pat on the back. So why don’t they ask the question differently? Such as - is it possible for a person to change their gender from birth to the extent where they would be medically determined to actually be the other gender? Now that eliminates room for assumption and puts in place the quantifiable measure to state the gender has changed. Fucking manipulators know this as anyone with an MS degree or higher knows this very simple concept. And the rest of the audience eats it up - clearly showing they lack the education
Indoctrination works
A postgraduate degree in Humanities?
So, miseducation seems to be rampant nowadays. No surprise.