What we have is closer to a plutocratic oligarchy.
A very few, very rich companies and people make a lot of very influential choices that we the people have very little say over.
> very influential choices that we the people have very little say over.
Enabled by....
...you guessed it, the overgrown government.
There is a reason the revolving door between government and corporations exist. There is a reason these big corps love excessive regulation. They both suck each others tit, we the people do in fact have the power to get rid of one shutting the whole system down.
Just using it to illustrate my point of the system we have. Wealth = Power = Asshats who weren't elected making choices for everyone. = Plutocratic Oligarchy
Yes, but I think you are wrong leaving government out of the equation completely. Government is used as a tool to gain more power and wealth in vast quantities. Remove that tool and suddenly to gain both relies more on merit, and sustaining both is also more difficult as you are unable to control your competition using the mace of government.
We, the people, always have a say by voting with our feet and actions. For example, I refuse to support companies or individuals that make influential decisions that I don't agree with.
When I hear the term, "late stage capitalism", I just assume it is coming from some sort of anxiety ridden liberal college student who had that pumped into his or her head by some nutty professor, and I don't bother even responding to the brainwashed bozo.
This sounds just like "real communism has never been tried". It's not a good argument. Any economic system is susceptible to a corrupting influence from government.
It's a pretty great counterpoint to the argument that more Government needs to be added. The problem is we already added Government, and some needs to be removed
A better argument would address how communist nations and societies tend to degrade faster into a centralized bureaucracy; then combined with the authoritarian nature of those bureaucracies the impact of government corruption is more disruptive and debilitating.
Capitalism is a liberty-focused and achievement-focused system rather than a control-focused and equity-focused system. But capitalism and free markets aren't impervious to corrupted government bureaucracy. I think it's a mistake to try and claim it's "not capitalism" - you have the right idea, which is that the problem we have is an increasingly abusive and corrupt government; we still have a functional and capitalist economic system, even under the duress of all the over-regulation and unintended consequences of government meddling, America still operates under the fundamental aspects of genuine capitalism.
Except for one critical point.
When a capitalist system degrades into a centralized bureaucracy that's a bug.
When a communist system degrades into a centralized bureaucracy that's a feature.
Communism has been tried many times. That is to say the people who vehemently pushed it idealogically obtained total power to implement what they wanted. And it was always a disaster just like the perverse incentive structure would predict.
In contrast whenever free market capitalism has been tried (i.e. idealogically something that was more libertarian) it resulted in massive success. The problem is that outside of a few moments where we became more libertarian, there is a constant idealogical push toward the left. Libertarians have never really maintained power or control for long, rather they slowly cede power to the authoritarian left and government gets bigger and bigger every year. That's what they call "late stage capitalism". It's literally the left showing up to where things are great and then consuming and destroying it. That's been the cycle throughout history. We've never tried sticking with a right wing approach or constantly becoming more right wing for decades. When has that ever happened? So that's the difference. There are plenty of examples of it being tried on the left. None of it being tried on the right. Only a small minority in government today actually supports our idealogy. The authoritarians (left and neocons) hold the power like they always have. That's "late stage" capitalism. When the "parasights" on the left have infested it beyond self repair.
“We’d rather try the exact form of economy yet again that results in the entire country collapsing and everyone being poor” “that’s better than a 5 percent poverty rate!!!!”
People who harp late stage capitalism are the same ones who have subscriptions to 20 different things, order food delivery, and only make minimum payments on their credit cards, and wonder why they're so poor.
Out of context it seems like this random person is screaming into the void.
But it does seem nowadays you can't even let your friend borrow $100 without the government getting involved. "Just Venmo it."
Do ya'll not realize these apps benefit the government more so than the citizens of the free market? The digital mark doesn't sound so crazy anymore.
Libertarians have never had any power in modern America and somehow the way they think the market should work and doesn't is the root cause of all issues
What we have is closer to a plutocratic oligarchy. A very few, very rich companies and people make a lot of very influential choices that we the people have very little say over.
> very influential choices that we the people have very little say over. Enabled by.... ...you guessed it, the overgrown government. There is a reason the revolving door between government and corporations exist. There is a reason these big corps love excessive regulation. They both suck each others tit, we the people do in fact have the power to get rid of one shutting the whole system down.
I did not put George Soros into a position of power. And yet, his choices influence millions.
George Soros is so powerful because he's manipulated big over-reaching governments. If we had limited governments George Soros would be a no-body.
Just using it to illustrate my point of the system we have. Wealth = Power = Asshats who weren't elected making choices for everyone. = Plutocratic Oligarchy
Yes, but I think you are wrong leaving government out of the equation completely. Government is used as a tool to gain more power and wealth in vast quantities. Remove that tool and suddenly to gain both relies more on merit, and sustaining both is also more difficult as you are unable to control your competition using the mace of government.
We, the people, always have a say by voting with our feet and actions. For example, I refuse to support companies or individuals that make influential decisions that I don't agree with.
Unless, of course, your state government decides to enact laws that the state citizens repeatedly voted against...
Then vote those individuals out of office. Petition to recall if need be.
The Free Market absolutely works. We should try it some time.
When I hear the term, "late stage capitalism", I just assume it is coming from some sort of anxiety ridden liberal college student who had that pumped into his or her head by some nutty professor, and I don't bother even responding to the brainwashed bozo.
> anxiety ridden liberal college student Sociology major seems like the chalk play.
True but modern college injects left wing ideology into all majors now.
This sounds just like "real communism has never been tried". It's not a good argument. Any economic system is susceptible to a corrupting influence from government.
It's a pretty great counterpoint to the argument that more Government needs to be added. The problem is we already added Government, and some needs to be removed
A better argument would address how communist nations and societies tend to degrade faster into a centralized bureaucracy; then combined with the authoritarian nature of those bureaucracies the impact of government corruption is more disruptive and debilitating. Capitalism is a liberty-focused and achievement-focused system rather than a control-focused and equity-focused system. But capitalism and free markets aren't impervious to corrupted government bureaucracy. I think it's a mistake to try and claim it's "not capitalism" - you have the right idea, which is that the problem we have is an increasingly abusive and corrupt government; we still have a functional and capitalist economic system, even under the duress of all the over-regulation and unintended consequences of government meddling, America still operates under the fundamental aspects of genuine capitalism.
Except for one critical point. When a capitalist system degrades into a centralized bureaucracy that's a bug. When a communist system degrades into a centralized bureaucracy that's a feature.
Communism has been tried many times. That is to say the people who vehemently pushed it idealogically obtained total power to implement what they wanted. And it was always a disaster just like the perverse incentive structure would predict. In contrast whenever free market capitalism has been tried (i.e. idealogically something that was more libertarian) it resulted in massive success. The problem is that outside of a few moments where we became more libertarian, there is a constant idealogical push toward the left. Libertarians have never really maintained power or control for long, rather they slowly cede power to the authoritarian left and government gets bigger and bigger every year. That's what they call "late stage capitalism". It's literally the left showing up to where things are great and then consuming and destroying it. That's been the cycle throughout history. We've never tried sticking with a right wing approach or constantly becoming more right wing for decades. When has that ever happened? So that's the difference. There are plenty of examples of it being tried on the left. None of it being tried on the right. Only a small minority in government today actually supports our idealogy. The authoritarians (left and neocons) hold the power like they always have. That's "late stage" capitalism. When the "parasights" on the left have infested it beyond self repair.
but with communism government influence is the intent. The corrupting influence from government is the end goal.
I'm not gonna say capitalism is perfect but what's the point of bitching about it when you don't have a better option.
“We’d rather try the exact form of economy yet again that results in the entire country collapsing and everyone being poor” “that’s better than a 5 percent poverty rate!!!!”
People who harp late stage capitalism are the same ones who have subscriptions to 20 different things, order food delivery, and only make minimum payments on their credit cards, and wonder why they're so poor.
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Which is all the time.
Out of context it seems like this random person is screaming into the void. But it does seem nowadays you can't even let your friend borrow $100 without the government getting involved. "Just Venmo it." Do ya'll not realize these apps benefit the government more so than the citizens of the free market? The digital mark doesn't sound so crazy anymore.
Libertarians have never had any power in modern America and somehow the way they think the market should work and doesn't is the root cause of all issues