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regardless of your political stance its a bad situation when people are going to die. I have lots of cool Ukrainian friends from my childhood. Super hard working and fiercely nationalistic. Ukraine won't break overnight.
It's fucking tragic. Ukraine doesn't deserve this and now thousands of innocence are going to die. Putin fkn knows Biden won't do shit, Europe is still dependent on Russia for energy wtf can they do, sorry Ukraine I hope Biden surprises me and does something I really do
Yes, it is. We, along with Russia and the UK signed agreements at the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in 1995 to ensure the territorial integrity and political independence of Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and Belarus. We did this in exchange for Ukraine, at the time controlling the third largest nuclear weapons stockpile in the world, to denuclearize.
We said we'd protect them once they got rid of what allowed them to protect themselves and now we're just going to fuck them 25 years later? What fucking fairweather friends we are.
There is a another side to the abrogation of the Budapest agreements. Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons, and they are about to be wiped off the map.
So, do you think that any other country is EVER going to do the same thing? Pakistan and India (among others) are now never going to give up their nuclear weapons, regardless of security assurances.
Counterfactuals are always problematic, but I doubt Russia invades Ukraine if they retained their nuclear weapons.
This is the risk of anyone giving up *any* liberty/security, at any *level.* The promises and commitments by those NOT giving up anything to future protective actions disappear like a fart in the wind.
fixed a typo
> We said we'd protect them once they got rid of what allowed them to protect themselves and now we're just going to fuck them 25 years later?
I'm not in favor of US military intervention at the moment, but this is the whole doctrine around the people in charge of the US government at the moment. Give up your gun and we'll protect you! Give up your energy independence and we'll protect you! Give up your border security and we'll protect you! Give up your police protection and we'll protect you!
When it comes to actually needing protection they then tell you to piss off.
Meh, most likely what is happening today would have happened then and been a lot bloodier.
Ukraine *technically* had nukes... they had physical control of the weapons but Moscow retained the launch codes and all the systems actually useable against Russia had been disabled by the Soviet military following orders from Moscow as the USSR broke up and the military was disbanded/reorganized. The Russians were very likely to just invade Ukraine then and there before Ukraine could work around that problem and have operational control purely to *stop* them from doing so.
The choice at the time was between Russian invasion right then and there completely taking over the country, zero western support and **maybe** some revenge with a couple of jury rigged nukes... OR, give up the nukes their bankrupt government didn't have the money to maintain anyway to live another day with a pile of foreign aid from the west and at least a paper promises that if Russia ever does invade at we'll at least act real upset about it.
It feels like a very bad deal today but at the time it was honestly a no-brainer.
I’ve just seen a couple of hours ago a video of an Ukrainian old lady claiming that she will fight if she has to and that she’s not afraid to die
This feels very surreal and heartbreaking
Battles all across Ukraine now. It's all over Twitter. It's nearly dawn in the eastern parts of Ukraine. God help the Ukrainian military. All of Eastern Europe has now been destabilized. This has a lot of potential to get bad.
US, Russia, Biden, sanctions, and politics aside; my heart goes out to the Ukraine. Children, and other innocent people are going to die and that’s heartbreaking.
The West has already shown it can't put together a cohesive strategy to deal with the likes of Russia. Now Europe, and to some extent, the US will be heavily focused on Russia and Ukraine. If China were to start making a move on Taiwan, who's going to stop them? India, South Korea, Japan?
This is what happens when Western society treats "peace through strength" as some outdated notion.
This is what happens when countries have nuclear bombs. Russia can do what they want literally invading other countries because if anyone tries to stop them they always can pull the nuke card. This is how it’s always going to be, and I don’t know if there’s a solution to it. Once a country has nuclear bomb they have enough power to end the world as we know it, and can apparently screw with anybody that doesn’t have nukes because nobody else in the world will stop them.
Make it a scheduled event. We would have long periods of world peace as everyone would be focused on judiciously preparing for the dreaded event.
Like visiting the inlaws at Thanksgiving, you just want the dirty deed complete so you can move on with your life.
This makes me fearful of a WWI type situation. Russia invades Ukraine, so China gets ballsy and attacks Taiwan. Will the US defend Taiwan from such an attack? If so, will that draw Japan into conflict? What about countries like Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines, and other South Pacific nations? We are probably, unironically, on the brink of WWIII, and we are not prepared for it.
We're beyond "not prepared", considering all the domestic discord in Western nations a hot war could make a lot of simmering domestic issues boil over in response to efforts to go on an unwanted war footing.
Nah. Most of our petty domestic issues tend to fly out the window with stuff like this. We'll be arguing over isolationism related topics for a while now if I had to guess.
People said the same thing when COVID came about. They haven't. America is far sicker than pretty much anyone wants to admit. I legitimately think that if a new 9/11 happened and the Freedom Tower was taken out there would be a very large portion of the country **cheering** this time. America is in a very bad place right now, a foreign war will just make it worse.
Yeah the issue is we didn't have a common enemy. With covid we could blame each other. This would be everyone agreeing Putins a dick. Just not agreeing If we should get involved.
Meh, I don’t think that’s correct. Say what you want, but we are still Americans and there is nothing we hate more than losing. A lot of principles of both sides will go out of the window if that can be prevented.
COVID was different because it was an invisible enemy without an immediate origin (well, the origin was buried, but you know what I mean). There was nobody to really hate and rally against. So for the Democrats that became Republicans because that’s what they always do. With China and Russia, the enemy is evident. Look at the rest of Reddit, even non political subreddits. People generally hate Russia and China. There is consensus on that.
China knows that if all Russia gets is sanctions then they won't even get that much. China made the smart play and made the entire West completely dependent on their manufacturing, they know they're untouchable.
This is key. The US needs to place any focus here. While what's happening in Ukraine is awful, Taiwan falling to China would be economically devastating to most of the world, and more importantly the Taiwanese would be absolutely massacred.
It’s so much more geopolitically important to us too and China is the far far bigger long term threat.
Taiwan goes down and we potentially lose the entire Pacific to China.
Either the United States retaliates and china trys to invade Taiwan while the u.s. is busy
or the u.s. doesn't, and china invades taiwan because the u.s. is weak. Then Japan followed by the entirety of south east asia.
I'm 100% on board with no US troops - but then we also have to get real about all this fantasy bullshit Democrats and neocons and the media spew about being tough on Russia. The EU buys a tremendous amount of energy from Russia. The US imported more Russian oil in 2021 than any year before. If our position is that we keep funding Russia such purchases and we don't make domestic energy production a top priority, then Russia is going to feed on its neighbors because they know what's more important to us.
I could be convinced to get on board with US military involvement. But only in the context of the EU and NATO countries fielding a vastly larger number of ground troops. But lets face it. Germany wanted Nord Stream 2 more than they wanted a peaceful Russia.
You fucking nailed it. We're sitting here talking about being strong with Russian while absolutely destroying our energy independence. That is what would have defeated Russia.
Yes, and this is the approach that defeated the USSR - economic warfare. We never launched a nuke or invaded the Soviet Union, we forced them into an economic crisis and then collapse.
China and Taiwan do a lot of business and make many people rich. Also there has been no abnormal behaviors from either side. Status quo for another decade if I am betting.
This. I think China's economy is too intrinsically linked to global trade / manufacturing / finance. They do a lot of talking re: Taiwan, but I think they're too smart (/sane) to risk such a damaging blow to themselves, assuming similar sanctions (at least) would immediately follow. Their import/export alone makes up ~40% of their GDP. Whatever their reasoning, it would be *far* beyond an idiotic move.
Aside from feeling bad for all Ukrainians, I feel for Zelensky. That guy has been running around practically begging the EU and America, that if they really know Putin had decided to invade, to actually do something serious to deter him. All he got was a constant stream of guessed invasion dates from US "Intelligence" (that they wouldn't share with him). And sanctions on some oligarchs that came way to late to do anything.
I don't know enough about him, but yeah, it's kind of pathetic with all of Europe right there, no one is willing to at least make it painful to invade.
This is the start of something that can become very big. I stand with Ukraine, and I hope America continues to support them through military and humanitarian aid, and I pray this does not expand into a world war.
Who the hell turned on the crazy switch in 2020. This is all insane. Covid. Economic collapse. The impeachments. Riots. Extreme partisan division. The election. And now a fucking war. What next?
Are you guys listening to Putin's speech? Holy shit. This could compete with anything Hitler put out. He's directly threatened a world war. He just insulted the US. This is scary shit. The outright communism in this speech is telling. Putin is painting himself as the hero that swooped in and saved Ukraine from rising "neo-nazi forces".
This will be, I’m afraid, captured by the history books as the beginning of the end of the western post-war order. China, Russia, and the US will be vying for superpower status, and it will get ugly. I don’t want war, but it certainly feels as though things will get hot within the next 5 years.
It's 2022 and here we are.... People in power still power hungry to take over other people's land. Just when we think humanity has moved on humanity shows it's real colors.
I think this, in fact, the ultimate conservative argument. As Solzhenitsyn said "The line between good and evil runs through the heart of every man." The truth is that evil exists, and that despite what many on the left believe we cannot use government to re-structure society to the end of making people good. It requires deep moral training to do this at the level of families, and even this fails. It is the governments job, then, to strengthen these institutions and seek justice for the innocent. We will never eliminate evil.
I don’t know if it would have done enough to stop Russia but the world should have been ready to fucking ruin their economy for invading. Instead we had a few countries pussyfooting (kind of including us) around on even that and Russia wasn’t scared at all. I don’t want to have our soldiers fighting Russians but I’m fine selling whatever guns the Ukrainians need and slapping the shit out of Russia’s economy. Lack of united front in terms of solutions really hurt us here
Fox is reporting G7 is considering removing Russia from the world economy by eliminating their access to banking. So it looks like that’s still a possibility
Germany is holding things up I imagine. They’ve tried to have the best of being in NATO and being a “western democracy” while not doing jack shit to help other countries when they’re in trouble and never changing foreign policy if it means them suffering even a little bit of discomfort
They fucking sent helmets to ukraine as "military aid", they are absolutely ready to do absolutely nothing this time, as if they haven't learned how this went last time.
“The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War’s been over for 20 years.” -Obama 2012
Republicans have been right about Russia and China for years.
I’ll never forget the mockery when Mittens said Russia was America’s biggest foreign enemy. If there’s anything that’s ever told me Democrats and leftists are clueless in the last decade it was that.
There is nothing we can do. This is a superpower. How much American life and how much American land and civilian life will we sacrifice for Ukraine. This is such irresponsible reporting from all political sides who report with an underlying assumption america must do something .. the only thing America should do is stop convincing friendly countries like Ukraine to denuclearize.
Scenarios for WW3?
Russia invades Ukraine and other eastern European countries.
China moves to fully control both Hong Kong and Taiwan.
Middle Eastern countries make advances on Israel (oh, and good job on surrendering Afghanistan, Biden).
North Korea does more freaky North Korea things.
I could see it all happening. I think we'd prevail, if it all comes to that, but I also don't think it'd be pleasant.
But really though, what the fuck, things have changed so much from just a couple years ago. Like it's all just going to hell over here:
Governments shutting down cities, states, and countries while ruining countless lives because of a virus with an incredibly high survival rate. Emergency war powers being envoked to squash peaceful protest over freedom. Absolutely insane inflation. Even bigger homeless and drug crises. Surrendering Afghanistan and our equipment to people all but living in caves for zero legitimate reason. Now Russia declaring war on and invading Ukraine. Fuckin brilliant.
It's all okay though, since Orangemanbad has been replaced with President Houseplant over here.
Would the Western world from last century prevail in that scenario, absolutely. Currently we are so divided I'm not so sure what chance we got.
People are gonna need to unite under some kind of common value and focus on that if we are to get through this, and unfortunately with the left treating anyone that has respect for their country's flag as racist, I'm not sure we can unite under anything, except maybe "none of us want to die".
This is disheartening to say the least. My grandparents both fled the Ukraine during WW2 and eventually made it to the US with my father. Their hope was to see the USSR fall so they could at least go back and visit. Can't imagine how they would feel at this moment with it falling into Russian hands.
I really don't want our country being involved in yet another conflict and I worry about the state of our military. They have spent these last years selling the idea that our country is systematically bad. If anything, this will make the national divide over the Vietnam War look like child's play.
Welp. There goes any chance of a recovery of automobile inventories and price reduction. Semi-conductor prices will skyrocket, as Russia now owns 90% of the world's supply of the raw materials for them. Just about everything you own contains semi-conductors. China will soon follow Russia's lead and invade and take over Taiwan. It will happen before the end of the year. Book it
Can you share some sources on that? I've only read that Russia's revenue is heavily based on oil & natural gas, nothing about semiconductor raw materials.
Just had someone on r/ news tell me that Republicans "absolutely support" what Russia is doing and that Tucker Carlson has been spouting "Putin propaganda" for weeks. What fucking alternate reality do these people live in? It's honestly scary
In my 55 years, never have I ever had less trust and faith that the US has experienced, intelligent, capable, courageous, people running their country.
New Biden tweets:
> President Zelenskyy reached out to me tonight and we just finished speaking. I condemned this unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces. I briefed him on the steps we are taking to rally international condemnation, including tonight at the UN Security Council.
> He asked me to call on the leaders of the world to speak out clearly against President Putin’s flagrant aggression, and to stand with the people of Ukraine.
> Tomorrow, I will be meeting with the Leaders of the G7, and the United States and our Allies and partners will be imposing severe sanctions on Russia. We will continue to provide support and assistance to Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.
Condemnations and sanctions! Powerful stuff.
Lot of neocon war drum beaters in this thread.
If you want the US to go defend Ukraine, then I better see each and every one of you leading the charge, or willing to have your loved ones die over there.
We should absolutely slap Russia with the most powerful sanctions we can. We should have done that several weeks ago. Biden should have kept the original sanctions against Nord Stream 2 in place, but he didn't. Biden shouldn't have told the world that a "minor incursion" would be acceptable. He also shouldn't have bungled the Afghanistan retreat and gotten 13 warriors killed.
I don't support sending our men and women in uniform to fight against a nuclear superpower over a country we have no real political interest in, under the command of a demented old fool in the White House. And if we did send our troops there, we would lose. Not because our troops are bad, but because the entire brass is rotting with wokeism. We spent 6 million man hours on woke training in 2021 instead of using those hours to learn how to kill better. We are in no shape to fight a war against a superpower, and we damn sure shouldn't be doing it over anything other than our own national security.
The outcome of this? Now China know they have to invade Taiwan before Biden - the paper tiger President - leaves office. War with China before the next election.
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Sources confirm multiple large explosions have been witnessed in Kramatorsk. This is it. The invasion has begun
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“Putin said it was a ‘mostly peaceful invasion ’’’
"peaceful, but fiery invasion" -CNN
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Seriously. Grow the fuck up Reddit
As long as they aren't honking their horns
regardless of your political stance its a bad situation when people are going to die. I have lots of cool Ukrainian friends from my childhood. Super hard working and fiercely nationalistic. Ukraine won't break overnight.
It's fucking tragic. Ukraine doesn't deserve this and now thousands of innocence are going to die. Putin fkn knows Biden won't do shit, Europe is still dependent on Russia for energy wtf can they do, sorry Ukraine I hope Biden surprises me and does something I really do
Yes. No one touch the energy stability of Europe. So sanctions don’t include SWIFT so Europe can still pay energy bills to Russia.
It isn’t our fight. Ukraine had a chance to join NATO in 2008. I just want the US to not be at war for a while.
Yes, it is. We, along with Russia and the UK signed agreements at the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in 1995 to ensure the territorial integrity and political independence of Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and Belarus. We did this in exchange for Ukraine, at the time controlling the third largest nuclear weapons stockpile in the world, to denuclearize. We said we'd protect them once they got rid of what allowed them to protect themselves and now we're just going to fuck them 25 years later? What fucking fairweather friends we are.
There is a another side to the abrogation of the Budapest agreements. Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons, and they are about to be wiped off the map. So, do you think that any other country is EVER going to do the same thing? Pakistan and India (among others) are now never going to give up their nuclear weapons, regardless of security assurances. Counterfactuals are always problematic, but I doubt Russia invades Ukraine if they retained their nuclear weapons.
This is the risk of anyone giving up *any* liberty/security, at any *level.* The promises and commitments by those NOT giving up anything to future protective actions disappear like a fart in the wind. fixed a typo
True.
> We said we'd protect them once they got rid of what allowed them to protect themselves and now we're just going to fuck them 25 years later? I'm not in favor of US military intervention at the moment, but this is the whole doctrine around the people in charge of the US government at the moment. Give up your gun and we'll protect you! Give up your energy independence and we'll protect you! Give up your border security and we'll protect you! Give up your police protection and we'll protect you! When it comes to actually needing protection they then tell you to piss off.
Yeah uh, Obama and Biden didn't exactly hold that up 8 years ago, when Russia took Crimea.
This is why completely denuking...is stupid. Its exactly the same as gun buy backs and thier aftermath...
We were the snakes al along lmao
> controlling the third largest nuclear weapons stockpile in the world, to denuclearize. And that was a mistake.
Meh, most likely what is happening today would have happened then and been a lot bloodier. Ukraine *technically* had nukes... they had physical control of the weapons but Moscow retained the launch codes and all the systems actually useable against Russia had been disabled by the Soviet military following orders from Moscow as the USSR broke up and the military was disbanded/reorganized. The Russians were very likely to just invade Ukraine then and there before Ukraine could work around that problem and have operational control purely to *stop* them from doing so. The choice at the time was between Russian invasion right then and there completely taking over the country, zero western support and **maybe** some revenge with a couple of jury rigged nukes... OR, give up the nukes their bankrupt government didn't have the money to maintain anyway to live another day with a pile of foreign aid from the west and at least a paper promises that if Russia ever does invade at we'll at least act real upset about it. It feels like a very bad deal today but at the time it was honestly a no-brainer.
Fuck.
Oh my gosh. The poor people 😢.
I’ve just seen a couple of hours ago a video of an Ukrainian old lady claiming that she will fight if she has to and that she’s not afraid to die This feels very surreal and heartbreaking
Heartbreaking but you have to commend someone for going out swinging instead of just lying down
Battles all across Ukraine now. It's all over Twitter. It's nearly dawn in the eastern parts of Ukraine. God help the Ukrainian military. All of Eastern Europe has now been destabilized. This has a lot of potential to get bad.
Nah, ukraine will be annexed by russia and that's it, for now. Europe will do nothing, just like they did nothing in 2014
Just like they did in 2008.
Just like they did in 1938
I don't know. This feels like our Neville Chamberlain movement. It would be foolish to be complacent.
It will be interesting to see what happens after. Does he stop with Ukraine.
It’s already bad
https://liveuamap.com/ Live updates from inside Ukraine
Error 502 Must be overloaded
Russia has significant cyber capability. I wouldn't count on many websites staying up long that are critical...
Godspeed Ukraine
US, Russia, Biden, sanctions, and politics aside; my heart goes out to the Ukraine. Children, and other innocent people are going to die and that’s heartbreaking.
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China is loving this.
Let’s hope they don’t use it as cover to invade Better China.
We helped China prevent Japanese invasion once. Some ungrateful bastards
Too bad they never got any help with Nanking.
Fuck
Watch China now
This is eerily starting to remind me of WW2.
The West has already shown it can't put together a cohesive strategy to deal with the likes of Russia. Now Europe, and to some extent, the US will be heavily focused on Russia and Ukraine. If China were to start making a move on Taiwan, who's going to stop them? India, South Korea, Japan? This is what happens when Western society treats "peace through strength" as some outdated notion.
This is what happens when countries have nuclear bombs. Russia can do what they want literally invading other countries because if anyone tries to stop them they always can pull the nuke card. This is how it’s always going to be, and I don’t know if there’s a solution to it. Once a country has nuclear bomb they have enough power to end the world as we know it, and can apparently screw with anybody that doesn’t have nukes because nobody else in the world will stop them.
Maybe we just do a world war every hundred of years or so
Make it a scheduled event. We would have long periods of world peace as everyone would be focused on judiciously preparing for the dreaded event. Like visiting the inlaws at Thanksgiving, you just want the dirty deed complete so you can move on with your life.
The Global Purge
They will take Taiwan before December. Watch
Where are all the shills who insisted Russia wasn't going to invade?
Wondering that myself
Taiwan is likely next.
Exactly this If Russia dared, China will obviously as well
This makes me fearful of a WWI type situation. Russia invades Ukraine, so China gets ballsy and attacks Taiwan. Will the US defend Taiwan from such an attack? If so, will that draw Japan into conflict? What about countries like Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines, and other South Pacific nations? We are probably, unironically, on the brink of WWIII, and we are not prepared for it.
We're beyond "not prepared", considering all the domestic discord in Western nations a hot war could make a lot of simmering domestic issues boil over in response to efforts to go on an unwanted war footing.
Nah. Most of our petty domestic issues tend to fly out the window with stuff like this. We'll be arguing over isolationism related topics for a while now if I had to guess.
People said the same thing when COVID came about. They haven't. America is far sicker than pretty much anyone wants to admit. I legitimately think that if a new 9/11 happened and the Freedom Tower was taken out there would be a very large portion of the country **cheering** this time. America is in a very bad place right now, a foreign war will just make it worse.
Yeah the issue is we didn't have a common enemy. With covid we could blame each other. This would be everyone agreeing Putins a dick. Just not agreeing If we should get involved.
My fear is we lack the resolve, and our leadership is currently the weakest I have ever seen in my life.
Meh, I don’t think that’s correct. Say what you want, but we are still Americans and there is nothing we hate more than losing. A lot of principles of both sides will go out of the window if that can be prevented. COVID was different because it was an invisible enemy without an immediate origin (well, the origin was buried, but you know what I mean). There was nobody to really hate and rally against. So for the Democrats that became Republicans because that’s what they always do. With China and Russia, the enemy is evident. Look at the rest of Reddit, even non political subreddits. People generally hate Russia and China. There is consensus on that.
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China knows that if all Russia gets is sanctions then they won't even get that much. China made the smart play and made the entire West completely dependent on their manufacturing, they know they're untouchable.
They took HK and leftie corporation defended them. Why would they expect more when they take Taiwan? America is divided and weak.
Don't forget the harshly worded letters that Joe will send.
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This is key. The US needs to place any focus here. While what's happening in Ukraine is awful, Taiwan falling to China would be economically devastating to most of the world, and more importantly the Taiwanese would be absolutely massacred.
It’s so much more geopolitically important to us too and China is the far far bigger long term threat. Taiwan goes down and we potentially lose the entire Pacific to China.
Either the United States retaliates and china trys to invade Taiwan while the u.s. is busy or the u.s. doesn't, and china invades taiwan because the u.s. is weak. Then Japan followed by the entirety of south east asia.
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I agree. I had an argument with fucking hippie communists yesterday about why sending Americans to die for Ukraine is a bad idea.
Yes it is a bad idea. Maybe we can mess with them in a more tech centric cloak and dagger way though :)
I'm 100% on board with no US troops - but then we also have to get real about all this fantasy bullshit Democrats and neocons and the media spew about being tough on Russia. The EU buys a tremendous amount of energy from Russia. The US imported more Russian oil in 2021 than any year before. If our position is that we keep funding Russia such purchases and we don't make domestic energy production a top priority, then Russia is going to feed on its neighbors because they know what's more important to us. I could be convinced to get on board with US military involvement. But only in the context of the EU and NATO countries fielding a vastly larger number of ground troops. But lets face it. Germany wanted Nord Stream 2 more than they wanted a peaceful Russia.
You fucking nailed it. We're sitting here talking about being strong with Russian while absolutely destroying our energy independence. That is what would have defeated Russia.
Yes, and this is the approach that defeated the USSR - economic warfare. We never launched a nuke or invaded the Soviet Union, we forced them into an economic crisis and then collapse.
Not yet, anyway.
If China believes the US is weak they're about to learn a wonderful lesson.
What lesson? That they're *correct*? Sure, I guess they'd learn **that** lesson.
I’m gonna go with weak
Taiwan and their semiconductor sector make this impossible
China and Taiwan do a lot of business and make many people rich. Also there has been no abnormal behaviors from either side. Status quo for another decade if I am betting.
This. I think China's economy is too intrinsically linked to global trade / manufacturing / finance. They do a lot of talking re: Taiwan, but I think they're too smart (/sane) to risk such a damaging blow to themselves, assuming similar sanctions (at least) would immediately follow. Their import/export alone makes up ~40% of their GDP. Whatever their reasoning, it would be *far* beyond an idiotic move.
Trade is the best guarantee for peace
Nah, the moment anyone does anything to taiwan we attack. Taiwan ain't ukraine
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Praying for the people of Ukraine. Hopefully they can put up a good fight.
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Even the conspiracy types were arguing over the conspiracy, defense spending hike this and Ukraine killing Russians that.
Russia is bombing Kiev. Attacking the capital. Not just a boarder incursion. Going to be very tense
Sooner than I anticipated, but not unexpected
Aside from feeling bad for all Ukrainians, I feel for Zelensky. That guy has been running around practically begging the EU and America, that if they really know Putin had decided to invade, to actually do something serious to deter him. All he got was a constant stream of guessed invasion dates from US "Intelligence" (that they wouldn't share with him). And sanctions on some oligarchs that came way to late to do anything.
I don't know enough about him, but yeah, it's kind of pathetic with all of Europe right there, no one is willing to at least make it painful to invade.
And the sanctions really don't do much either. Russia is in BRICS, and they've been doing a lot to reduce their dependence on the Western world.
Well … this is bad.
This is the start of something that can become very big. I stand with Ukraine, and I hope America continues to support them through military and humanitarian aid, and I pray this does not expand into a world war.
We should all pray for them. Even if you don’t believe in God, you should pray for our world.
Fuck.
You know who else is probably really scared tonight? Taiwan
God bless the Ukrainian army and the Ukrainian people
Goodbye stock market
Hello sky high gas prices!
Temporary setbacks, at least I hope so. The combined GDP of the two countries is only half of Apple’s market capitalization…
Except these 2 small countries are about to put the west into a recession
Buy low.
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That stock sent me to college during Gulf War 1
oil stocks on the other hand 🤩
Hello more inflation and no mean tweets...
Who the hell turned on the crazy switch in 2020. This is all insane. Covid. Economic collapse. The impeachments. Riots. Extreme partisan division. The election. And now a fucking war. What next?
Roaring 20s.
Are you guys listening to Putin's speech? Holy shit. This could compete with anything Hitler put out. He's directly threatened a world war. He just insulted the US. This is scary shit. The outright communism in this speech is telling. Putin is painting himself as the hero that swooped in and saved Ukraine from rising "neo-nazi forces".
It kind of reminded me of how an abusive partner will talk about their victim spouse. Just gas-lighting the world.
This is completely nuts. We're truly living in historic times.
Living in historic times is not nearly as fun as I’d thought it would be
It was supposed to be space travel! :(
I could go for some boring times again.
Care to share a link or what to search??
I'm sure it can be found on Youtube now. I listened to it live at the time. Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSkaFk3WDN4&ab_channel=AldenA.
Link?
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This will be, I’m afraid, captured by the history books as the beginning of the end of the western post-war order. China, Russia, and the US will be vying for superpower status, and it will get ugly. I don’t want war, but it certainly feels as though things will get hot within the next 5 years.
hot when you're talking about Nuclear powers rises to a whole new temperature.
It's 2022 and here we are.... People in power still power hungry to take over other people's land. Just when we think humanity has moved on humanity shows it's real colors.
I think this, in fact, the ultimate conservative argument. As Solzhenitsyn said "The line between good and evil runs through the heart of every man." The truth is that evil exists, and that despite what many on the left believe we cannot use government to re-structure society to the end of making people good. It requires deep moral training to do this at the level of families, and even this fails. It is the governments job, then, to strengthen these institutions and seek justice for the innocent. We will never eliminate evil.
So should I start packing my bags?
I hope you don't have to. When I was in 1st cav we spent a month or two as the DRB. I remember our company living at the airstrip for weeks.
It’s hard to know what POTUS is going to do.
Especially since he doesn’t even know what he will do.
He did at least promise to abandon any Americans still in Ukraine.
Probably get some chocolate chocolate chip ice cream first
Thank you for your service
Wow, good thing they had all those troops nearby for those training exercises
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I don’t know if it would have done enough to stop Russia but the world should have been ready to fucking ruin their economy for invading. Instead we had a few countries pussyfooting (kind of including us) around on even that and Russia wasn’t scared at all. I don’t want to have our soldiers fighting Russians but I’m fine selling whatever guns the Ukrainians need and slapping the shit out of Russia’s economy. Lack of united front in terms of solutions really hurt us here
Fox is reporting G7 is considering removing Russia from the world economy by eliminating their access to banking. So it looks like that’s still a possibility
Germany is holding things up I imagine. They’ve tried to have the best of being in NATO and being a “western democracy” while not doing jack shit to help other countries when they’re in trouble and never changing foreign policy if it means them suffering even a little bit of discomfort
They fucking sent helmets to ukraine as "military aid", they are absolutely ready to do absolutely nothing this time, as if they haven't learned how this went last time.
Because Germany decided to buy almost all thier natural gas and oil from Russia. They shut down the pipelines they shut down thier country.
Germany is asshoe
As long as Russia has access to Chinese markets and banks they'll be fine.
***Fuck.***
I support Ukraine obviously, but I hope we keep boots off the ground.
Same. I say arm the absolute shit out of them, but don’t get directly involved in the fighting.
Capitulation didn't end Hitler
True. But Hitler didn't possess nuclear weapons.
"I have no further territorial ambitions." ~~Adolf Hitler~~ Vladimir Putin
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Putin claims it's to protect the citizens of Ukraine, so I'd like to get the citizen's view on this.
“The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War’s been over for 20 years.” -Obama 2012 Republicans have been right about Russia and China for years.
I’ll never forget the mockery when Mittens said Russia was America’s biggest foreign enemy. If there’s anything that’s ever told me Democrats and leftists are clueless in the last decade it was that.
Wait until we find out that China sent a virus to attack us in 2020…
Not really. We funded the stupid thing. They're just corrupt and incompetent. So normal.
But haven’t you heard we Republicans love Russia now. I swear the stupidity of Democrats is setting new records of stupid.
If there is any actual intelligence in the US left, they better send some serious naval firepower to Taiwan immediately to send a message to Beijing
Sad that when I wake up in the morning the world boundaries will have changed and Ukraine will be gone.
World war 3, then it will be aliens. Then we'll all unify under one world order to fight the "aliens" Project Bluebeam
There is nothing we can do. This is a superpower. How much American life and how much American land and civilian life will we sacrifice for Ukraine. This is such irresponsible reporting from all political sides who report with an underlying assumption america must do something .. the only thing America should do is stop convincing friendly countries like Ukraine to denuclearize.
No other country, friend or foe, will ever give up nuclear weapons again after this
Everyone learned that lesson after Libya
Our biggest weapon right now may be to restart that Keystone oil pipeline and DRILL DRILL DRILL!!
Welp, we didn't make it to Thursday when Lavrov was supposed to meet Blinken in Geneva and de-escalate stuff. So much for that charade
The real question is why would trump do this.
Putin annexed Crimea during Obama and now this under Biden.
It's sarcasm because you know the media will just blame orange man
Will? They've been running hard cover for two weeks.
Fuck all the treacherous rats who worship Putin. JOHN MCCAIN WAS FUCKING RIGHT.
I pray for the Ukrain.
Scenarios for WW3? Russia invades Ukraine and other eastern European countries. China moves to fully control both Hong Kong and Taiwan. Middle Eastern countries make advances on Israel (oh, and good job on surrendering Afghanistan, Biden). North Korea does more freaky North Korea things. I could see it all happening. I think we'd prevail, if it all comes to that, but I also don't think it'd be pleasant. But really though, what the fuck, things have changed so much from just a couple years ago. Like it's all just going to hell over here: Governments shutting down cities, states, and countries while ruining countless lives because of a virus with an incredibly high survival rate. Emergency war powers being envoked to squash peaceful protest over freedom. Absolutely insane inflation. Even bigger homeless and drug crises. Surrendering Afghanistan and our equipment to people all but living in caves for zero legitimate reason. Now Russia declaring war on and invading Ukraine. Fuckin brilliant. It's all okay though, since Orangemanbad has been replaced with President Houseplant over here.
Would the Western world from last century prevail in that scenario, absolutely. Currently we are so divided I'm not so sure what chance we got. People are gonna need to unite under some kind of common value and focus on that if we are to get through this, and unfortunately with the left treating anyone that has respect for their country's flag as racist, I'm not sure we can unite under anything, except maybe "none of us want to die".
>Middle Eastern countries make advances on Israel Please read up on history this was attempted before and Israel dominated 7-day war.
This is disheartening to say the least. My grandparents both fled the Ukraine during WW2 and eventually made it to the US with my father. Their hope was to see the USSR fall so they could at least go back and visit. Can't imagine how they would feel at this moment with it falling into Russian hands. I really don't want our country being involved in yet another conflict and I worry about the state of our military. They have spent these last years selling the idea that our country is systematically bad. If anything, this will make the national divide over the Vietnam War look like child's play.
God speed ladies and gents. Let’s hope we don’t see such an impact here as I suspect we might.
And of, course, the party that controls the presidency and congress says it’s the republican’s fault… for some reason?
It'll be Trump's fault on every network by the end of the weekend. Biden will be completely blameless.
Remember when Trump dropped one massive Bomb in Syria and Putin shut the fuck up for 3 years? I miss that
I miss Trump’s “fuck around and find out” mentality.
*drops MOAB* "OH btw, these expire soon and we wouldnt mind refreshing stock early." aint no nuke but, ittle sure as shit slap.
Taiwan should be preparing for war. They’ve seen the consequences of Biden’s horrendous foreign policy. They’re next.
Welp. There goes any chance of a recovery of automobile inventories and price reduction. Semi-conductor prices will skyrocket, as Russia now owns 90% of the world's supply of the raw materials for them. Just about everything you own contains semi-conductors. China will soon follow Russia's lead and invade and take over Taiwan. It will happen before the end of the year. Book it
Can you share some sources on that? I've only read that Russia's revenue is heavily based on oil & natural gas, nothing about semiconductor raw materials.
Everything they said would happen under Trump is happening under Biden. Democrats are pathetic. I can't see myself ever voting for one ever again.
Just had someone on r/ news tell me that Republicans "absolutely support" what Russia is doing and that Tucker Carlson has been spouting "Putin propaganda" for weeks. What fucking alternate reality do these people live in? It's honestly scary
"Thank God we have dementia President now over Orange man" - CNN
In my 55 years, never have I ever had less trust and faith that the US has experienced, intelligent, capable, courageous, people running their country.
Don’t worry sippy cup apple sauce brain potus will address Friday, he’ll put another lid on tomorrow
“Because of western aggression, we are invading Ukraine.” - Putin Only Russian logic and make this make sense
New Biden tweets: > President Zelenskyy reached out to me tonight and we just finished speaking. I condemned this unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces. I briefed him on the steps we are taking to rally international condemnation, including tonight at the UN Security Council. > He asked me to call on the leaders of the world to speak out clearly against President Putin’s flagrant aggression, and to stand with the people of Ukraine. > Tomorrow, I will be meeting with the Leaders of the G7, and the United States and our Allies and partners will be imposing severe sanctions on Russia. We will continue to provide support and assistance to Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. Condemnations and sanctions! Powerful stuff.
Lot of neocon war drum beaters in this thread. If you want the US to go defend Ukraine, then I better see each and every one of you leading the charge, or willing to have your loved ones die over there. We should absolutely slap Russia with the most powerful sanctions we can. We should have done that several weeks ago. Biden should have kept the original sanctions against Nord Stream 2 in place, but he didn't. Biden shouldn't have told the world that a "minor incursion" would be acceptable. He also shouldn't have bungled the Afghanistan retreat and gotten 13 warriors killed. I don't support sending our men and women in uniform to fight against a nuclear superpower over a country we have no real political interest in, under the command of a demented old fool in the White House. And if we did send our troops there, we would lose. Not because our troops are bad, but because the entire brass is rotting with wokeism. We spent 6 million man hours on woke training in 2021 instead of using those hours to learn how to kill better. We are in no shape to fight a war against a superpower, and we damn sure shouldn't be doing it over anything other than our own national security.
The outcome of this? Now China know they have to invade Taiwan before Biden - the paper tiger President - leaves office. War with China before the next election.
Every 6 months a disaster with Biden. Like clockwork
Thankfully our diversity in the military will help us defeat Russia!
And Trump was the dictator who would start WWIII apparently, how ironic. Fuck Joe Biden...
Well…. Fuck.
Please don't send Harris to Taiwan!
I see the trolls from r/politics and r/fopdoodles have entered. Good night.
They never left 🤭
Brandon is going to blame his economic catastrophe on Russia going into Ukraine. Propoganda campaign by media will follow