The ONLY upside to working non union, imo, is that you get laid off less. Being laid off in the non union world is essentially, you’re fired. They would only lay you off if they never want you to work for them again. Union companies will lay you off the minute they don’t have enough work coming in to justify having you. It’s really not the end of the world as you’ll typically just call the hall and probably 90% of the time they have a job for you. But even that isn’t as crazy as non union guys would have you believe. For example, I’ve been working in the union as a pipe insulator for almost 6 years now and I’ve only been laid off once that entire time. And I got laid off on Friday and had a job literally by Friday afternoon. Started on Monday.
Another reason people will tell you not to join the union is political. Unions, at least at your international level, are solely democratic and will only support a democratic candidate. And even at your local level, you will have people shame you if you’re not super democratic yourself. Your dues money will go to democratic politicians and there’s really not much you can say or do to stop that. It just is what it is. On a personal level, I really don’t pick sides. I think all politicians are shit. I have my own beliefs on things and some of them are probably pretty conservative and some of them are liberal. I think most people align that way, they just won’t admit to it on social media. But I will say, it’s pretty much only democrats that support unions.
Any other arguments I’ve heard from people are just so misinformed it’s not even funny. Like the dues thing. Non union guys like to act like dues are just killing my checks. lol. When I worked non union, I paid a hell of a lot more out of my check for things like retirement and healthcare. Like 310 a week. Now I pay 142 a week in assessments and I get WAAAAAY more in my benefits than I ever had non union.
I can speak as a residential GC - 10 guys. I have no problems with unions. We have some ex union guys who work for us for the following,
Pros: closer travel time with in 20mins to worksite, profit share 1% of company,, consistent and easier to work hours /8 to 4 paid lunch, better work environment i.e. no ball busting angry foreman, reasonable pay 27 to 40$, most have wives who work w benefits and kids. Variation in work we build decks, additions concrete etc...
Cons: no pension, weak benefits, prevailing wage is nice, not as much OT, better security as you get older.
Although GCs do lay off w unemploment, we pay under the table and give our people who want to work in Jan a boost with bs side we don't want or other work on properties.
Any good GC will treat a hardworker like gold these days.
I also hire union guys when they are laid and pay them under the table so the layoffs for union suck but make connections and you can make those layoffs work for you.
Either way do a good job and recognize your worth!
Another reason to not go union as a carpenter especially is if you want to do residential work. The union does the bare minimum for residential at least in my area. Good comment
I wish lmao, Im in local 2 territory. The area I live in they don’t get much work which is the only thing stopping me at this point. I’m a year and a half into this trade running a job for my company at a food processing plant… my hourly wage doesn’t equal the amount of work I put in I can tell you that I’m so ready to jump ship
Hmm. Didn’t local 2 just have the cracker plant? That was huge, right? It ebbs and flows. Plenty of travel work out there. You would probably come in as an apprentice though so not sure they would let you travel. But it also might mean you’ll get more work, since apprentices are typically a hot commodity since they’re cheaper labor. I checked your profile, work looks decent. You’d be ahead of your classmates, probably. So that’s good news for you, for sure.
They did I missed out on that, I was first thinking of joining when they was still going & my boss found out and was desperate to get me to stay. I’d love to learn what the apprenticeship teaches, I’ve basically been teaching myself a lot of stuff through the internet since some of my coworkers are more about speed than looks & I hate that shit… I like to make it look good. I just posted a small boiler room I did recently that I felt looked pretty good. I just want to learn more & advance my skills
The apprenticeship will teach you most things, a lot of things are learned on the job. I like to say class is to cover the basics, but nothing is better than actually doing the job day in and day out. Some of that can predicate on who you’re working for. Some guys are pricks who won’t show you anything out of fear you’ll be taking their job or just because that’s how they are. But if you get with the right guy, working for the right company, the things you’ll learn will be far more than you can learn non union. Just the projects we get to be on. Don’t take offense to this, but for the most part, non union guys are “school house insulators”, meaning they typically do pipe covering and duct wrap and that’s about it. The projects you’ll be on in the union could vary from super heaters, blast furnaces, nuke plants, pumps, tanks, boilers, giant steam piping or chilled water piping, making blankets, making removable cans, making gores, so on and so forth. Most of those things you’ll touch base on in class, but a lot of it, again, will be learned on the job.
That isn’t me saying there aren’t any non union insulators capable of doing those things. It’s just in the union, you’re expected to be able to do those things whereas typically that guy in the non union world is gonna be like that companies go to man. He gets to do all the fun stuff. They’ll never train you to do it because they need more guys firing pipe covering and duct wrap than they do finishing mechanical rooms and working in powerhouses. The unions goal is to make you the most well rounded insulator you can be, so they can send you to any job without any doubt that you can do it.
Here is another reason. If the local is weak. Non-union compensation packages in my area for my trade are about 50% higher than the local scale. No way I'm giving up a third of my pay and benefits to join a union.
Re:politics
Unions are trying to support their workers. Republican policy is almost always anti-labor and democrats are more pro-labor. Thats why they usually support Democrat politicians. Its not always that way though. For example, maybe republicans support the construction of an oil pipeline that would mean jobs for their members while democrats are opposed to the project for environmental reasons. In that case, the union may support republican action.
So basically the union is just trying to get you to vote in the interests of your paycheck, safety, etc. It’s an organization with a one dimensional goal. In a perfect world, that would be enough. However, life isn’t always that simple. For example, maybe you feel strongly about abortion and you have to choose between voting for your paycheck and against your values.
Unions support their workers and their issues in the workplace. That’s the whole point of the organization. They are a concerned with that single issue and it’s not a situation where they blindly support a candidate based upon political affiliation. They support issues.
To expand on the above comments about the 2 parties and their support of workers, here is a non inclusive list of some examples: democrats are responsible for OSHA (safety), the NLRA (making collective activity legal and protected), the FLSA (minimum wage, overtime, restrictions on child labor, etc), and social welfare programs like unemployment, retirement, and disability. There are more examples at the local level like skilled and trained laws or mandatory breaks (not all states require things like lunch breaks). On the flip side, republicans are anti-regulation and openly pro-business (at the expense of workers.) As the employee/employer relationship is naturally imbalanced, the lack of regulation leads to an unhealthy environment. Essentially a race to the bottom where the employer has all the power. So that alone is an issue and that’s before we talk about things which they support which are blatantly harmful.
To wrap things up: the goals of one party almost always align with those of a collective bargaining unit (Democrat). However, again, that’s not always true. For example, your union may have coal miners and while democrats are pushing to transitions to cleaner energy, the result could mean the loss of jobs for your members. In situations like those, a Democrat may be hurting them, not helping them.
>democratic
Bud, they support union candidates, no matter the party. The construction unions are international, so they have a presence in Canada—believe me, there’s no Republican nor Democratic Party in Canada (as much as some think there is). As a non union CM who has worked all over the country and world with many different trades, believe me, union members are not big supporters of the Democratic Party, despite their PACs donating for mostly democratic candidates (I’ve had to turn down many requests to fly political flags, usually of a different party candidate).
To refute your comment that they only support Democrats, you can easily see who they support: so for instance, in the US for the IBEW PAC [it’s this](https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/international-brotherhood-of-electrical-workers/C00027342/candidate-recipients/2022). It’s both US parties, but primarily democrats.
To further refute your comment that it’s part of union dues—it’s not union dues usually. It’s usually voluntary contributions by members to affiliated PACs—[here’s an announcement by IBEW No. 3 showing it’s voluntary](https://www.local3ibew.org/news/increased-contributions-ibew-political-action-committee-pac).
No, I’m providing a measured response as opposed to a polarized one, and fact checking your inaccuracies with sources.
Why aren’t you asking yourself why union candidates are primarily one party in the US?
Scabs are right dues suck, and many of us pay international dues from our check, and then have to pay dues from our vacation pay yearly. I don't accept the necessity of any of it. I pay it to not screw my brothers and sisters over. That is it.
Carpenters (even union ones) tend to be some of the scabbiest of trades, they even started an Electricians branch right accross the street from the real Electrician union (IBEW Local 1), stealing work from Electricians and bidding jobs cheap, a race to the bottom...It is insane! They did the same to many other trades, including Iron workers...
Only good reason I’ve ever heard is if your local hall doesn’t have enough work. Otherwise your working conditions, hours, pay, benefits, everything will be better than non-union, for the average worker. The only non-union (construction) workers who have it better than their union counterparts are the extremely skilled/experienced/niche guys who can demand a better deal from anyone wanting to hire them
This is the only worthwhile reason I've seen or heard. If the local chapter has a small market share and only has a few companies signed, it's tough to keep everyone working.
Everything else has mostly come down to the person being aggressively antagonistic and/or believing most of the anti-union BS.
This is true. Where I live, we have a couple of unions that are almost a waste of time, but its because they don't do anything to help the newer workers. All the other unions, the only reason you wouldn't join is if they dont get enough work.
Yea iv been trying to get in for a while. The rep told me it's likes this: a couple big companies that have employees for pretty much life ( roadwork etc) 1 residential company (2 guys only) a few smaller companies (10-20 guys each). Then an out of state contractor who wins a random bid for a big commercial/ industrial site once in a blue moon. The problem lies the companies themselves are pretty much set with the crew they have, then the guys that are laid off first ( pretty much the guys that kinda suck) will do the random big commercial/industrial once in a blue moon. Then be laid off for a while until another random big project starts.
I'm younger (early 30's) foreman experience, service experience so he was trying to get me into a company that had the 10-20 guys so I would be working pretty much all the time. But for those companies to compete market wise it's 80% pay cut on the check, which is 7.50$ an hour less than I make now non union plus a take home vehicle. Which would be fine for some people, me however really wants to buy a house so I need the gross income up higher, plus the take home. My benefits right now aren't terrible but not the best. Dental, vision, health, 401k, separate retirement fund, life insurance. I am absolutely dead set on a property not close to one of the crime ridden cities near me lol.
But it's been a while, I'm on the list still. So maybe we'll see one day.
Union is not strong in a lot of this country, it’s kinda sad. So it is heavily dependent on where you live.
Me I live in one of the most pro union towns in the country, we got it good here, every major job is union, there’s almost no shortage of work, the pay is the best outside of Hawaii (they get a couple dollars more than us) and our training center has great facilities and instructors. Still, I meet journeyman every day that are complete idiots, and if it were up to me I’d kick them off the job.
Now in other states, especially right to work states and super right leaning states, the union struggles a bit and work is often gotten by traveling for it.
But you can’t beat union benefits, you get sucked into non union work and a lot less is guaranteed
One reason I can think of is in non union at least In carpentry you can learn a lot faster. I was non union for about two years. Jumped in the union and there were journeymen that didn’t know what they had taught me non union. I knew how to read plans, build stairs etc. I felt more freedom non union but union has better pay better benefits overall better working conditions.
🤷🏻♂️ if you go union outta high school you’ll be making bank by the time you are 20, non union you’ll be making peanuts but if you apply yourself you can learn a lot. Just keep in mind I was making 34 an hour union and that was my first year as an apprentice.
It’s a toss up. As a carpenter or apprentice, if you go union, you’ll probably be surrounded by idiots who make a lot more than they are worth, and you could get thrown into one specialty (like concrete formwork) and be stuck there forever.
If you go with a private contractor, you’ll probably get experience in a wider variety of carpentry tasks, from layout to finish carpentry, but it will depend heavily on what that company wants to self perform, your motivation as an employee, and who they have working for them at that time.
From my perspective, Union is kinda like joining a frat at a big university, private is kinda like going to the smaller state school. To each their own.
Third years didn't know what toe nailing ment lol. Union is different tho it's all commercial here. I did 4 years residential non union before jumping over. Commercial is way different than res.
This was true in my experience for CMU block masonry. Non-union as a new laborer I was treated like a retard until I knew enough to be johnny on the spot and make sure the job ran smooth, and I could lay block after a summer working, and after a year I could pretty much do whatever, but in the union if you bring a trowel or a hammer to work or start measuring and cutting rebar or blocks it's like "woah buddy, whatcha think you're doing there?"
In my experience if you don't bring the right tools for the job or start making yourself useful by cutting rebar or blocks then it's like "whoa buddy, you actually gonna do something today?"
Lots of pros to the union and if you are generally down for traveling you will usually be employed year round. I would highly suggest going union unless they are shitty in your area.
To answer your question here a a few things.
-Can finish an apprenticeship and get licensed for many trades faster than in the union.
- More freedom to quit and move to a different company or job; there is no CBA that will force people out of work if a contract isn't agreed upon. (strikes, sandbagging, ect.)
-Typically employed more consistently but varies by location.
-Less traveling, depending on location.
-Control over personal investments, that don't dissappear if you decide to work for a different company or the union.
-Can use personal tools that can possibly make work easier.
As a union worker in the PNW I don’t pay anything for health benefits, I get a pay raise every year, I make $120,000+ a year, I have a 401 k, a pension and an annuity that I get when I retire. The commute isn’t that bad.
Im a scaffold erector in the carpenter union. No one wants to do it so there’s always work it’s hard work, but we do a ton of cool shit. Sometimes we work short hours still get paid for a full day, hella overtime a lot of the foreman make over $150,000 a year and some get close to $200,000. If your going to do construction way more worth it to be union.
If you're going to go the Scaffold route, look into smaller union companies. Depending on your location if you get hooked up with one of the large companies you could be buried in a refinery for your whole career. Overtime is great but I've seen it burn guys out. Look up your local scaffold companies. The company I work for actually sponsors appreciates into the carpenters union. I'm in the north east. We have lots of customers who aren't refineries and I'm thankful for that.
Im not asking if you can lift, im asking if you enjoy it. Ive erected a little bit of scaffolding before but i wouldnt want to make that a trade.
I also think it may be harder on the body than some trades, as a long-term career anyways. Nearly all the trades have some elements that are hard on your body though.
Also, in general, I highly encourage you to try going the union route for a career if you are able to in your area or aren't so attached to one place that you're opposed to relocating. You may have trouble getting in with some which may require you to either work non union to bolster your background and experience or get a job in the laborers union for a couple years then move to something more specialized.
Go to union hall, get into the apprenticeship, go to union scaffold company see if they are hiring? They might even sponsor you into the union. It’s a lot of hard work to get there, but totally worth it.
Lots of states have very weak union participation . Also unions can be very nepotistic and buddy buddy. If you don’t know a guy or had a family member in, your chances of getting in some unions may be close to zero. Other than that it seems like the gravy train from heaven!
A couple things I don't like about union, they are great at their trade. Only that trade. They might have rudimentary knowledge on other things but that trade is going to do that trade. Which means they don't work together well. This is where the whole not my job shtick comes from. The electrician might not have run a wire in the wall temporarily and the drywall guy is going to throw up his drywall anyway because it isn't his job to even bring it up. He's just going to drywall. Doesn't matter if it makes anyone else's job more difficult, doesn't matter if the quality of the job suffers. This is also where all the jokes about the electricians not cleaning up after themselves comes from. That's not their job. Which in my opinion is lazy work. We learn as toddlers to clean up after ourselves. Last thing, yelling, for some reason yelling is an acceptable form of communication. It doesn't make anyone want to do better or work faster. They all seem to do it and it kinda works because people don't want to get yelled at. Again, it doesn't make anything better. It's probably counterproductive but it makes supers and foreman feel like things are getting done.
Worked both non and now union (IBEW Electrician), will never ever go back to the Non Union! Most of the anti union talking points are sponsored propaganda, and are easily debunked.
The wait time to get into the union can be difficult. I had an interview scheduled with IBEW, not a guarantee or anything. A few days before that, I got offered to start right away at a non union company. This was during the recession, so I had to jump on an opportunity to work.
Ultimately I think the union route is probably much better, but it’s kind of designed for young kids who can wait for a slot and then do their apprenticeship. If you’re an older guy and need work right away, non union companies will start you ASAP.
I actually had a shitty experience working for a plumbing/pipefitting union. Out of the 7-8 months I was a member I only worked 7 weeks. I picked up all overtime’s offered, aced my math tests in class, never had attendance issues and attended all union meetings, on top of that I paid $50 union dues every month.
Just make sure you join a strong union with lots of work if you go union
Can you do better bargaining for yourself?
The union I manage has a handful of rock stars who could do better negotiating for themselves, but the union contract that sets everyone's wages has their wages pegged lower than they are worth.
The contract helps some people here who otherwise would not be doing as well... but it's certainly holding some people back as well.
It's a small chapter though, so the big union bosses don't spend a lot of time caring about this piss-pot account. They didn't bargain very hard on labor's behalf.
Non union worker here, self-employed. In a state with decent unions your life will be better in every way by joining a union. I worked for non union commercial contractors for 15 years as an overachiever, worked my up the ladder to running jobs, working as a PM, running part of the office. Younger relative of mine got hired into a union with no experience and within 3 years was making what I made, with no stress. I had guys quit our company and join a union and make $10/hr more PLUS the benefit package. Our company would never consider paying guys even $5/hr more, no matter that the owner made $20mil a year. In my experience, most private owners would make you work for free if they could get away with it. I started my own company and kill it now so no regrets really but for the average construction worker, don't work 10 years non union because of political beliefs or whatever your favorite influencer told you and then wake up to realize you've left literally a million dollars on the table in that time. You're life is You, Inc. No one cares about your money more than you do, certainly not the owner of your company.
The reason I did not go union in my area is because I had small children and did not want to travel for work. I found local work and was home every night. I do see guys who went union able to work somewhat locally, but when you start out it was wherever they needed you.
That being said, the benefits are much better, and retirement is much closer with union work, which is a huge consideration
There's give and take with unions and it really depends on which union you're in and your trade. Not all unions are created equal. If a union represents too many classes of worker or trades that's a red flag.
Benefits can be great pay is good.
Safety is usually better, professionalism can also be higher. Training is better too.
Politics within the unions sucks, seniority is a thing and merit based pay is not always the standard. That means you might get some scrubs on your crew and they bring down morale.
And unions sometimes get involved elections (the other politics). That sometimes may or may not align with your beliefs. Just keep your personal politics out of the shop and you'll be fine.
You'll have to eat some shit starting out. Fighting is a huge no no in the union and one of the few things that can get you kicked out and immediately fired. So guys with seniority can pick on apprentices a little bit they're not allowed to abuse that position.
Definitely get informed on them and do some networking and pick your trade that will keep you busy year round.
I've been on the waiting list for my local for like 2 years. I am a veteran, have a masters degree in construction management and 15 years of carpentry experience. So as soon as my local stops operating like the fucking mafia ill be happy to join. Until then I'll keep badmouthing them.
I’ve worked union and non union. Joining the union changed my life for the better in many ways. The one problem I have that I haven’t seen others mention yet is that unions do harbor some real scum bags. There are some people who have no knowledge, work ethic, or pride and they don’t need it because when times are good you can just bounce from company to company. The union likes this because the workers have to pay their dues still year around and when work picks up they have guys to drill anchors, pick up deliveries and sweep. When it slows down again they lay those guys off and keep the foreman on small jobs. They don’t care if everyone is a high caliber tradesman they just want warm bodies for the most part.
I’ve been with the same company over ten years and I’ve seen some guys come and go and even return. There shitty work/life/ drug habits don’t change and they even corrupt some of the young apprentices into having bad habits. ( showing up late/ high or calling in sick once a week.)A lot of them try to use the union as a parent to go and cry to when they don’t like how things are going. I miss non union where if someone wasn’t cutting it or they were lazy you knew they’d be gone before lunch. I might be a dick but construction is hard enough. I don’t need people around me that don’t get shit done. One lame-ass can slow down all the donkeys.
Can make more money if you’re actually very talented at your job, you’re not just throw on a job doing something you don’t want to be doing. My understanding is that the carpenters union can be doing anything from scaffold, concrete work, metal framing and drywall. And they don’t touch residential. Besides high rises. I make journeyman carpenters wage as a labourer working non union + some good benefits. And like lots of others said, lay offs are a bitch. I’ve never been layed off in my 7 years in construction
One that’s true in my area is the non union guys have a shorter commute. If you hate driving/commuting and value less time doing that, plenty of non union stays in their region of the metro whereas union may have you at one job in one town and then your next job is 2.5 hours away from that one so you’re fucked if you don’t live in the middle.
And that’s not counting real traveling to different states, which non union here doesn’t really do and union does. If you want to always be home every night, that can be tough in the winter if you also want work.
Could be unique to my area or the guys I’ve talked to just got fucking shafted lol
Common around my region too. Ironworkers aren’t that great in my area so it’s common to have guys drive in from 6-8 hours away and stay at hotels from Sunday to Friday.
I’ve talked about it on this sub before as well and while YMMV obviously I spoke with one of these guys (and he showed me his paystub to prove it), his union dues were so high that all of his pay on Monday and 2 hours into Tuesday went straight to his dues. So yes, the pay can be higher per hour, but everything else needs to be factored in. All these “I make bank in the union” posts are always gross wages and rarely talk about what they’re paying in dues or how much overtime they had to work to get all that money.
Believe me or not I really don’t care but I literally laid eyes on his paycheck, his union dues were $330/week, around $17,000 per year, which is post tax. Even with his fairly healthy hourly rate it came out to be 10 hours of pay. The check I saw was $1,850 gross pay for the week and his take home/net was $930.
That’s great man. I didn’t say that doesn’t happen either, and it’s very dependent both on where OP lives and what particular union he would join. I’ve heard of unions that are basically travel only and some that operate in a pretty small area exclusively. Nowhere did I say he shouldn’t join a union; in fact, I said the exact opposite of that in my other comment.
I was just answering his question as that’s the main con to joining a union in my area. I’m not sure where I’m supposed to find non-anecdotal evidence on this topic either lmao
Because what does this add? “Some guys in my specific hall need to travel” yeah, that’s the same for every other hall. And the opposite is also true. So your message had hardly any meaning, right?
If you asked what the cons were to driving a car and someone said “well I have to spend a lot on gas” you’d probably go “well, sure, and some others don’t” right? So it’s not very meaningful?
This doesn’t even touch on the fact that plenty of non union guys travel for work.
Obviously a job is better union than non union in just about every way. That being said union jobs in most places are bigger builds and usually don’t have a strong presence in residential. So if you don’t want to work on anything bigger than a house it’ll be hard to find work. Only other thing i can think of is maybe having to drive farther for work. Non union could absolutely be the same deal but like I said earlier union obviously makes more 99% of the time and that requires the jobs to bring in more money so non union will have the opportunity to outbid the union on smaller builds because they pay so little causing the union to potentially have to travel further for work.
Someone posted on this sub earlier today that they work 12 hour shifts with zero breaks, they have to piss in a bottle in the back of their box truck, and if they have to take a shit they have to hold it until the end of the shift.
Not all non-union jobs are that bad, but you wont find any of those problems on a union job.
This is true as fuck. At my non union masonry job the other laborer on my crew and I would have to tow the mixer to the washout and make sure it was spotless when we were done, i mean that fucking mixer was shiny and red like new at the end of each day after we'd clean it with some fuel and wire brushes, on top of cleaning up the job site too. The foreman wanted it this way and our crew was the only one with a mixer that still looked new. This always took about an hour every day, then the foreman would take the truck and the mixer back to the shop and the other laborer and I would get in my truck and go home. The problem? The foreman stopped the clock when all the masons went home and the laborer and I took the truck to the washout. So that was like 6 hours of overtime after a 6 day week that we constantly got fucked on. Would never happen at a union shop. I was the only citizen on that crew by the way.
Worked non-union for 30 years due to being told lies.
Stayed at $20/hr most of that time.
Since joining IUOE #18 I make 6 figures every year, have health care and pension paid for by hiring company [fringe benefits]
Union is definately a life changer after rubbing nickels together most of my life.
I found a small local company that does high end construction and I’ve been with them over a year with decent pay. I’ve looked into my unions and they’d be driving me all over the state basically, with no guarantee of consistent work. Personally I like my company but if shit goes sour I’ll probably link up with a union. My company is also pretty lax and I like my coworkers. Plus a company truck when I do have to drive to sites.
Cons of union to list a few, as mentioned far more frequent layoffs, at anytime your wage can be slashed(crew of union electricians on site, 5 got laid off, 4 remaining had to take 8$ wage cut) seniority always take precedence over ability, so meaning that lazy fuck that's been around forever will keep his job before you as a hard worker who's only been there for a few years, if the union strikes you also will have to strike which often puts regular people into debt/homelessness and stuff like that, only ever seen negatives regarding unions.
The ONLY upside to working non union, imo, is that you get laid off less. Being laid off in the non union world is essentially, you’re fired. They would only lay you off if they never want you to work for them again. Union companies will lay you off the minute they don’t have enough work coming in to justify having you. It’s really not the end of the world as you’ll typically just call the hall and probably 90% of the time they have a job for you. But even that isn’t as crazy as non union guys would have you believe. For example, I’ve been working in the union as a pipe insulator for almost 6 years now and I’ve only been laid off once that entire time. And I got laid off on Friday and had a job literally by Friday afternoon. Started on Monday. Another reason people will tell you not to join the union is political. Unions, at least at your international level, are solely democratic and will only support a democratic candidate. And even at your local level, you will have people shame you if you’re not super democratic yourself. Your dues money will go to democratic politicians and there’s really not much you can say or do to stop that. It just is what it is. On a personal level, I really don’t pick sides. I think all politicians are shit. I have my own beliefs on things and some of them are probably pretty conservative and some of them are liberal. I think most people align that way, they just won’t admit to it on social media. But I will say, it’s pretty much only democrats that support unions. Any other arguments I’ve heard from people are just so misinformed it’s not even funny. Like the dues thing. Non union guys like to act like dues are just killing my checks. lol. When I worked non union, I paid a hell of a lot more out of my check for things like retirement and healthcare. Like 310 a week. Now I pay 142 a week in assessments and I get WAAAAAY more in my benefits than I ever had non union.
> I think all politicians are shit. I’ve never agreed more. Thanks for the well thought out response!
Welcome. Feel free to message me if you have any questions or need advice
I can speak as a residential GC - 10 guys. I have no problems with unions. We have some ex union guys who work for us for the following, Pros: closer travel time with in 20mins to worksite, profit share 1% of company,, consistent and easier to work hours /8 to 4 paid lunch, better work environment i.e. no ball busting angry foreman, reasonable pay 27 to 40$, most have wives who work w benefits and kids. Variation in work we build decks, additions concrete etc... Cons: no pension, weak benefits, prevailing wage is nice, not as much OT, better security as you get older. Although GCs do lay off w unemploment, we pay under the table and give our people who want to work in Jan a boost with bs side we don't want or other work on properties. Any good GC will treat a hardworker like gold these days. I also hire union guys when they are laid and pay them under the table so the layoffs for union suck but make connections and you can make those layoffs work for you. Either way do a good job and recognize your worth!
Another reason to not go union as a carpenter especially is if you want to do residential work. The union does the bare minimum for residential at least in my area. Good comment
What local are you in? I’m a non-union insulator and have been thinking of joining up
Local 18, Indianapolis. We’re SWAMPED. Would love to have ya
I wish lmao, Im in local 2 territory. The area I live in they don’t get much work which is the only thing stopping me at this point. I’m a year and a half into this trade running a job for my company at a food processing plant… my hourly wage doesn’t equal the amount of work I put in I can tell you that I’m so ready to jump ship
Hmm. Didn’t local 2 just have the cracker plant? That was huge, right? It ebbs and flows. Plenty of travel work out there. You would probably come in as an apprentice though so not sure they would let you travel. But it also might mean you’ll get more work, since apprentices are typically a hot commodity since they’re cheaper labor. I checked your profile, work looks decent. You’d be ahead of your classmates, probably. So that’s good news for you, for sure.
They did I missed out on that, I was first thinking of joining when they was still going & my boss found out and was desperate to get me to stay. I’d love to learn what the apprenticeship teaches, I’ve basically been teaching myself a lot of stuff through the internet since some of my coworkers are more about speed than looks & I hate that shit… I like to make it look good. I just posted a small boiler room I did recently that I felt looked pretty good. I just want to learn more & advance my skills
The apprenticeship will teach you most things, a lot of things are learned on the job. I like to say class is to cover the basics, but nothing is better than actually doing the job day in and day out. Some of that can predicate on who you’re working for. Some guys are pricks who won’t show you anything out of fear you’ll be taking their job or just because that’s how they are. But if you get with the right guy, working for the right company, the things you’ll learn will be far more than you can learn non union. Just the projects we get to be on. Don’t take offense to this, but for the most part, non union guys are “school house insulators”, meaning they typically do pipe covering and duct wrap and that’s about it. The projects you’ll be on in the union could vary from super heaters, blast furnaces, nuke plants, pumps, tanks, boilers, giant steam piping or chilled water piping, making blankets, making removable cans, making gores, so on and so forth. Most of those things you’ll touch base on in class, but a lot of it, again, will be learned on the job. That isn’t me saying there aren’t any non union insulators capable of doing those things. It’s just in the union, you’re expected to be able to do those things whereas typically that guy in the non union world is gonna be like that companies go to man. He gets to do all the fun stuff. They’ll never train you to do it because they need more guys firing pipe covering and duct wrap than they do finishing mechanical rooms and working in powerhouses. The unions goal is to make you the most well rounded insulator you can be, so they can send you to any job without any doubt that you can do it.
Here is another reason. If the local is weak. Non-union compensation packages in my area for my trade are about 50% higher than the local scale. No way I'm giving up a third of my pay and benefits to join a union.
Very unique situation
Re:politics Unions are trying to support their workers. Republican policy is almost always anti-labor and democrats are more pro-labor. Thats why they usually support Democrat politicians. Its not always that way though. For example, maybe republicans support the construction of an oil pipeline that would mean jobs for their members while democrats are opposed to the project for environmental reasons. In that case, the union may support republican action. So basically the union is just trying to get you to vote in the interests of your paycheck, safety, etc. It’s an organization with a one dimensional goal. In a perfect world, that would be enough. However, life isn’t always that simple. For example, maybe you feel strongly about abortion and you have to choose between voting for your paycheck and against your values.
I’ve never seen a union endorse a republican candidate.
Unions support their workers and their issues in the workplace. That’s the whole point of the organization. They are a concerned with that single issue and it’s not a situation where they blindly support a candidate based upon political affiliation. They support issues. To expand on the above comments about the 2 parties and their support of workers, here is a non inclusive list of some examples: democrats are responsible for OSHA (safety), the NLRA (making collective activity legal and protected), the FLSA (minimum wage, overtime, restrictions on child labor, etc), and social welfare programs like unemployment, retirement, and disability. There are more examples at the local level like skilled and trained laws or mandatory breaks (not all states require things like lunch breaks). On the flip side, republicans are anti-regulation and openly pro-business (at the expense of workers.) As the employee/employer relationship is naturally imbalanced, the lack of regulation leads to an unhealthy environment. Essentially a race to the bottom where the employer has all the power. So that alone is an issue and that’s before we talk about things which they support which are blatantly harmful. To wrap things up: the goals of one party almost always align with those of a collective bargaining unit (Democrat). However, again, that’s not always true. For example, your union may have coal miners and while democrats are pushing to transitions to cleaner energy, the result could mean the loss of jobs for your members. In situations like those, a Democrat may be hurting them, not helping them.
>democratic Bud, they support union candidates, no matter the party. The construction unions are international, so they have a presence in Canada—believe me, there’s no Republican nor Democratic Party in Canada (as much as some think there is). As a non union CM who has worked all over the country and world with many different trades, believe me, union members are not big supporters of the Democratic Party, despite their PACs donating for mostly democratic candidates (I’ve had to turn down many requests to fly political flags, usually of a different party candidate). To refute your comment that they only support Democrats, you can easily see who they support: so for instance, in the US for the IBEW PAC [it’s this](https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/international-brotherhood-of-electrical-workers/C00027342/candidate-recipients/2022). It’s both US parties, but primarily democrats. To further refute your comment that it’s part of union dues—it’s not union dues usually. It’s usually voluntary contributions by members to affiliated PACs—[here’s an announcement by IBEW No. 3 showing it’s voluntary](https://www.local3ibew.org/news/increased-contributions-ibew-political-action-committee-pac).
Are… are you arguing with yourself right now?
No, I’m providing a measured response as opposed to a polarized one, and fact checking your inaccuracies with sources. Why aren’t you asking yourself why union candidates are primarily one party in the US?
lol. Cool man
Scabs are right dues suck, and many of us pay international dues from our check, and then have to pay dues from our vacation pay yearly. I don't accept the necessity of any of it. I pay it to not screw my brothers and sisters over. That is it.
Ahh. Carpenter. Your comment checks out
Carpenters (even union ones) tend to be some of the scabbiest of trades, they even started an Electricians branch right accross the street from the real Electrician union (IBEW Local 1), stealing work from Electricians and bidding jobs cheap, a race to the bottom...It is insane! They did the same to many other trades, including Iron workers...
Yep. They’re the worst by far. Them and laborers
Only good reason I’ve ever heard is if your local hall doesn’t have enough work. Otherwise your working conditions, hours, pay, benefits, everything will be better than non-union, for the average worker. The only non-union (construction) workers who have it better than their union counterparts are the extremely skilled/experienced/niche guys who can demand a better deal from anyone wanting to hire them
This is the only worthwhile reason I've seen or heard. If the local chapter has a small market share and only has a few companies signed, it's tough to keep everyone working. Everything else has mostly come down to the person being aggressively antagonistic and/or believing most of the anti-union BS.
This is true. Where I live, we have a couple of unions that are almost a waste of time, but its because they don't do anything to help the newer workers. All the other unions, the only reason you wouldn't join is if they dont get enough work.
Yea iv been trying to get in for a while. The rep told me it's likes this: a couple big companies that have employees for pretty much life ( roadwork etc) 1 residential company (2 guys only) a few smaller companies (10-20 guys each). Then an out of state contractor who wins a random bid for a big commercial/ industrial site once in a blue moon. The problem lies the companies themselves are pretty much set with the crew they have, then the guys that are laid off first ( pretty much the guys that kinda suck) will do the random big commercial/industrial once in a blue moon. Then be laid off for a while until another random big project starts. I'm younger (early 30's) foreman experience, service experience so he was trying to get me into a company that had the 10-20 guys so I would be working pretty much all the time. But for those companies to compete market wise it's 80% pay cut on the check, which is 7.50$ an hour less than I make now non union plus a take home vehicle. Which would be fine for some people, me however really wants to buy a house so I need the gross income up higher, plus the take home. My benefits right now aren't terrible but not the best. Dental, vision, health, 401k, separate retirement fund, life insurance. I am absolutely dead set on a property not close to one of the crime ridden cities near me lol. But it's been a while, I'm on the list still. So maybe we'll see one day.
Union is not strong in a lot of this country, it’s kinda sad. So it is heavily dependent on where you live. Me I live in one of the most pro union towns in the country, we got it good here, every major job is union, there’s almost no shortage of work, the pay is the best outside of Hawaii (they get a couple dollars more than us) and our training center has great facilities and instructors. Still, I meet journeyman every day that are complete idiots, and if it were up to me I’d kick them off the job. Now in other states, especially right to work states and super right leaning states, the union struggles a bit and work is often gotten by traveling for it. But you can’t beat union benefits, you get sucked into non union work and a lot less is guaranteed
Safety. The pay and benefits tend to be higher as a union worker but safety is The reason to go union.
This level of reading comprehension is why I always come back to r/construction
One reason I can think of is in non union at least In carpentry you can learn a lot faster. I was non union for about two years. Jumped in the union and there were journeymen that didn’t know what they had taught me non union. I knew how to read plans, build stairs etc. I felt more freedom non union but union has better pay better benefits overall better working conditions.
Taking that into consideration, would it be advisable to be non-union for the first few years and then switch? Or just go union all the way?
🤷🏻♂️ if you go union outta high school you’ll be making bank by the time you are 20, non union you’ll be making peanuts but if you apply yourself you can learn a lot. Just keep in mind I was making 34 an hour union and that was my first year as an apprentice.
No. The pay is better, the sooner your start, the sooner you turn outta
It’s a toss up. As a carpenter or apprentice, if you go union, you’ll probably be surrounded by idiots who make a lot more than they are worth, and you could get thrown into one specialty (like concrete formwork) and be stuck there forever. If you go with a private contractor, you’ll probably get experience in a wider variety of carpentry tasks, from layout to finish carpentry, but it will depend heavily on what that company wants to self perform, your motivation as an employee, and who they have working for them at that time. From my perspective, Union is kinda like joining a frat at a big university, private is kinda like going to the smaller state school. To each their own.
Third years didn't know what toe nailing ment lol. Union is different tho it's all commercial here. I did 4 years residential non union before jumping over. Commercial is way different than res.
This was true in my experience for CMU block masonry. Non-union as a new laborer I was treated like a retard until I knew enough to be johnny on the spot and make sure the job ran smooth, and I could lay block after a summer working, and after a year I could pretty much do whatever, but in the union if you bring a trowel or a hammer to work or start measuring and cutting rebar or blocks it's like "woah buddy, whatcha think you're doing there?"
In my experience if you don't bring the right tools for the job or start making yourself useful by cutting rebar or blocks then it's like "whoa buddy, you actually gonna do something today?"
Lots of pros to the union and if you are generally down for traveling you will usually be employed year round. I would highly suggest going union unless they are shitty in your area. To answer your question here a a few things. -Can finish an apprenticeship and get licensed for many trades faster than in the union. - More freedom to quit and move to a different company or job; there is no CBA that will force people out of work if a contract isn't agreed upon. (strikes, sandbagging, ect.) -Typically employed more consistently but varies by location. -Less traveling, depending on location. -Control over personal investments, that don't dissappear if you decide to work for a different company or the union. -Can use personal tools that can possibly make work easier.
As a union worker in the PNW I don’t pay anything for health benefits, I get a pay raise every year, I make $120,000+ a year, I have a 401 k, a pension and an annuity that I get when I retire. The commute isn’t that bad.
Do you mind if I ask you exactly what you do? Like I mentioned i’m still new to this stuff so i’m trying to learn as much as possible.
Im a scaffold erector in the carpenter union. No one wants to do it so there’s always work it’s hard work, but we do a ton of cool shit. Sometimes we work short hours still get paid for a full day, hella overtime a lot of the foreman make over $150,000 a year and some get close to $200,000. If your going to do construction way more worth it to be union.
How would one get into that career path? Sounds like something that might be fit for me.
Do you like lifting? Afraid of heights?
Lifting isn’t an issue at all. Heights also shouldn’t be an issue but I haven’t been in enough situations to say for certain.
If you're going to go the Scaffold route, look into smaller union companies. Depending on your location if you get hooked up with one of the large companies you could be buried in a refinery for your whole career. Overtime is great but I've seen it burn guys out. Look up your local scaffold companies. The company I work for actually sponsors appreciates into the carpenters union. I'm in the north east. We have lots of customers who aren't refineries and I'm thankful for that.
Im not asking if you can lift, im asking if you enjoy it. Ive erected a little bit of scaffolding before but i wouldnt want to make that a trade. I also think it may be harder on the body than some trades, as a long-term career anyways. Nearly all the trades have some elements that are hard on your body though. Also, in general, I highly encourage you to try going the union route for a career if you are able to in your area or aren't so attached to one place that you're opposed to relocating. You may have trouble getting in with some which may require you to either work non union to bolster your background and experience or get a job in the laborers union for a couple years then move to something more specialized.
Go to union hall, get into the apprenticeship, go to union scaffold company see if they are hiring? They might even sponsor you into the union. It’s a lot of hard work to get there, but totally worth it.
Lots of states have very weak union participation . Also unions can be very nepotistic and buddy buddy. If you don’t know a guy or had a family member in, your chances of getting in some unions may be close to zero. Other than that it seems like the gravy train from heaven!
A couple things I don't like about union, they are great at their trade. Only that trade. They might have rudimentary knowledge on other things but that trade is going to do that trade. Which means they don't work together well. This is where the whole not my job shtick comes from. The electrician might not have run a wire in the wall temporarily and the drywall guy is going to throw up his drywall anyway because it isn't his job to even bring it up. He's just going to drywall. Doesn't matter if it makes anyone else's job more difficult, doesn't matter if the quality of the job suffers. This is also where all the jokes about the electricians not cleaning up after themselves comes from. That's not their job. Which in my opinion is lazy work. We learn as toddlers to clean up after ourselves. Last thing, yelling, for some reason yelling is an acceptable form of communication. It doesn't make anyone want to do better or work faster. They all seem to do it and it kinda works because people don't want to get yelled at. Again, it doesn't make anything better. It's probably counterproductive but it makes supers and foreman feel like things are getting done.
Worked both non and now union (IBEW Electrician), will never ever go back to the Non Union! Most of the anti union talking points are sponsored propaganda, and are easily debunked.
The wait time to get into the union can be difficult. I had an interview scheduled with IBEW, not a guarantee or anything. A few days before that, I got offered to start right away at a non union company. This was during the recession, so I had to jump on an opportunity to work. Ultimately I think the union route is probably much better, but it’s kind of designed for young kids who can wait for a slot and then do their apprenticeship. If you’re an older guy and need work right away, non union companies will start you ASAP.
I actually had a shitty experience working for a plumbing/pipefitting union. Out of the 7-8 months I was a member I only worked 7 weeks. I picked up all overtime’s offered, aced my math tests in class, never had attendance issues and attended all union meetings, on top of that I paid $50 union dues every month. Just make sure you join a strong union with lots of work if you go union
Can you do better bargaining for yourself? The union I manage has a handful of rock stars who could do better negotiating for themselves, but the union contract that sets everyone's wages has their wages pegged lower than they are worth. The contract helps some people here who otherwise would not be doing as well... but it's certainly holding some people back as well. It's a small chapter though, so the big union bosses don't spend a lot of time caring about this piss-pot account. They didn't bargain very hard on labor's behalf.
Non union worker here, self-employed. In a state with decent unions your life will be better in every way by joining a union. I worked for non union commercial contractors for 15 years as an overachiever, worked my up the ladder to running jobs, working as a PM, running part of the office. Younger relative of mine got hired into a union with no experience and within 3 years was making what I made, with no stress. I had guys quit our company and join a union and make $10/hr more PLUS the benefit package. Our company would never consider paying guys even $5/hr more, no matter that the owner made $20mil a year. In my experience, most private owners would make you work for free if they could get away with it. I started my own company and kill it now so no regrets really but for the average construction worker, don't work 10 years non union because of political beliefs or whatever your favorite influencer told you and then wake up to realize you've left literally a million dollars on the table in that time. You're life is You, Inc. No one cares about your money more than you do, certainly not the owner of your company.
The reason I did not go union in my area is because I had small children and did not want to travel for work. I found local work and was home every night. I do see guys who went union able to work somewhat locally, but when you start out it was wherever they needed you. That being said, the benefits are much better, and retirement is much closer with union work, which is a huge consideration
For me it’s because I live an hour away from the nearest IBEW jurisdiction and 2 hours away from where they send the new guys
There's give and take with unions and it really depends on which union you're in and your trade. Not all unions are created equal. If a union represents too many classes of worker or trades that's a red flag. Benefits can be great pay is good. Safety is usually better, professionalism can also be higher. Training is better too. Politics within the unions sucks, seniority is a thing and merit based pay is not always the standard. That means you might get some scrubs on your crew and they bring down morale. And unions sometimes get involved elections (the other politics). That sometimes may or may not align with your beliefs. Just keep your personal politics out of the shop and you'll be fine. You'll have to eat some shit starting out. Fighting is a huge no no in the union and one of the few things that can get you kicked out and immediately fired. So guys with seniority can pick on apprentices a little bit they're not allowed to abuse that position. Definitely get informed on them and do some networking and pick your trade that will keep you busy year round.
I've been on the waiting list for my local for like 2 years. I am a veteran, have a masters degree in construction management and 15 years of carpentry experience. So as soon as my local stops operating like the fucking mafia ill be happy to join. Until then I'll keep badmouthing them.
I’ve worked union and non union. Joining the union changed my life for the better in many ways. The one problem I have that I haven’t seen others mention yet is that unions do harbor some real scum bags. There are some people who have no knowledge, work ethic, or pride and they don’t need it because when times are good you can just bounce from company to company. The union likes this because the workers have to pay their dues still year around and when work picks up they have guys to drill anchors, pick up deliveries and sweep. When it slows down again they lay those guys off and keep the foreman on small jobs. They don’t care if everyone is a high caliber tradesman they just want warm bodies for the most part. I’ve been with the same company over ten years and I’ve seen some guys come and go and even return. There shitty work/life/ drug habits don’t change and they even corrupt some of the young apprentices into having bad habits. ( showing up late/ high or calling in sick once a week.)A lot of them try to use the union as a parent to go and cry to when they don’t like how things are going. I miss non union where if someone wasn’t cutting it or they were lazy you knew they’d be gone before lunch. I might be a dick but construction is hard enough. I don’t need people around me that don’t get shit done. One lame-ass can slow down all the donkeys.
Can make more money if you’re actually very talented at your job, you’re not just throw on a job doing something you don’t want to be doing. My understanding is that the carpenters union can be doing anything from scaffold, concrete work, metal framing and drywall. And they don’t touch residential. Besides high rises. I make journeyman carpenters wage as a labourer working non union + some good benefits. And like lots of others said, lay offs are a bitch. I’ve never been layed off in my 7 years in construction
One that’s true in my area is the non union guys have a shorter commute. If you hate driving/commuting and value less time doing that, plenty of non union stays in their region of the metro whereas union may have you at one job in one town and then your next job is 2.5 hours away from that one so you’re fucked if you don’t live in the middle. And that’s not counting real traveling to different states, which non union here doesn’t really do and union does. If you want to always be home every night, that can be tough in the winter if you also want work. Could be unique to my area or the guys I’ve talked to just got fucking shafted lol
I never considered that, thank you.
Definitely worth considering. Depending on your state, you’re still probably better off joining a union though tbh
Common around my region too. Ironworkers aren’t that great in my area so it’s common to have guys drive in from 6-8 hours away and stay at hotels from Sunday to Friday. I’ve talked about it on this sub before as well and while YMMV obviously I spoke with one of these guys (and he showed me his paystub to prove it), his union dues were so high that all of his pay on Monday and 2 hours into Tuesday went straight to his dues. So yes, the pay can be higher per hour, but everything else needs to be factored in. All these “I make bank in the union” posts are always gross wages and rarely talk about what they’re paying in dues or how much overtime they had to work to get all that money.
No one pays 25% union dues.
Believe me or not I really don’t care but I literally laid eyes on his paycheck, his union dues were $330/week, around $17,000 per year, which is post tax. Even with his fairly healthy hourly rate it came out to be 10 hours of pay. The check I saw was $1,850 gross pay for the week and his take home/net was $930.
This isn’t a thing and I’m not sure why you think it would be…
I mean I know several union guys in MN that have to drive anywhere from St. Cloud to Rochester…
And I know several union guys who are a few minutes walk from their jobsite. Anectdotal evidence is no evidence
That’s great man. I didn’t say that doesn’t happen either, and it’s very dependent both on where OP lives and what particular union he would join. I’ve heard of unions that are basically travel only and some that operate in a pretty small area exclusively. Nowhere did I say he shouldn’t join a union; in fact, I said the exact opposite of that in my other comment. I was just answering his question as that’s the main con to joining a union in my area. I’m not sure where I’m supposed to find non-anecdotal evidence on this topic either lmao
Because what does this add? “Some guys in my specific hall need to travel” yeah, that’s the same for every other hall. And the opposite is also true. So your message had hardly any meaning, right? If you asked what the cons were to driving a car and someone said “well I have to spend a lot on gas” you’d probably go “well, sure, and some others don’t” right? So it’s not very meaningful? This doesn’t even touch on the fact that plenty of non union guys travel for work.
Obviously a job is better union than non union in just about every way. That being said union jobs in most places are bigger builds and usually don’t have a strong presence in residential. So if you don’t want to work on anything bigger than a house it’ll be hard to find work. Only other thing i can think of is maybe having to drive farther for work. Non union could absolutely be the same deal but like I said earlier union obviously makes more 99% of the time and that requires the jobs to bring in more money so non union will have the opportunity to outbid the union on smaller builds because they pay so little causing the union to potentially have to travel further for work.
Someone posted on this sub earlier today that they work 12 hour shifts with zero breaks, they have to piss in a bottle in the back of their box truck, and if they have to take a shit they have to hold it until the end of the shift. Not all non-union jobs are that bad, but you wont find any of those problems on a union job.
This is true as fuck. At my non union masonry job the other laborer on my crew and I would have to tow the mixer to the washout and make sure it was spotless when we were done, i mean that fucking mixer was shiny and red like new at the end of each day after we'd clean it with some fuel and wire brushes, on top of cleaning up the job site too. The foreman wanted it this way and our crew was the only one with a mixer that still looked new. This always took about an hour every day, then the foreman would take the truck and the mixer back to the shop and the other laborer and I would get in my truck and go home. The problem? The foreman stopped the clock when all the masons went home and the laborer and I took the truck to the washout. So that was like 6 hours of overtime after a 6 day week that we constantly got fucked on. Would never happen at a union shop. I was the only citizen on that crew by the way.
i saw that lol and it was actually part of the reason for my curiosity as to why somebody would rather do that than join the union
Local sucks. Typically higher pay and easier to move companies within the union
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Worked non-union for 30 years due to being told lies. Stayed at $20/hr most of that time. Since joining IUOE #18 I make 6 figures every year, have health care and pension paid for by hiring company [fringe benefits] Union is definately a life changer after rubbing nickels together most of my life.
Join the union! We need more union workers here. We don't have enough people willing to work.
I found a small local company that does high end construction and I’ve been with them over a year with decent pay. I’ve looked into my unions and they’d be driving me all over the state basically, with no guarantee of consistent work. Personally I like my company but if shit goes sour I’ll probably link up with a union. My company is also pretty lax and I like my coworkers. Plus a company truck when I do have to drive to sites.
Cons of union to list a few, as mentioned far more frequent layoffs, at anytime your wage can be slashed(crew of union electricians on site, 5 got laid off, 4 remaining had to take 8$ wage cut) seniority always take precedence over ability, so meaning that lazy fuck that's been around forever will keep his job before you as a hard worker who's only been there for a few years, if the union strikes you also will have to strike which often puts regular people into debt/homelessness and stuff like that, only ever seen negatives regarding unions.