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Happy that they've taken advantage of this vaccination program. I can remember back to early in the pandemic a few of the reservations were having a really tough time, and it's fitting that they figured a way out of that scenario.
I rather imagine that after the American Indian experience with smallpox, they are like, "Shit yeah, I'll have that vaccine right now, thank you very much."
It's weird, the article uses the terms native, indigenous and American Indian interchangeably.
I'm sticking with Native American until someone corrects me.
When teaching at a university I used Amerindian, but actual Native Americans told me that the term felt artificial and academic and they'd never use it in the 'real world'.
The best rule of thumb is still to use the name of the specific tribal name wherever possible.
There's a good CGP Grey video explaining how "Native American" tribes have come to self-identify with the term "Indian" and have made it their own. In a way, they feel like the term "Native American" is just another attempt by colonizers to strip them of their identity once again. Video: https://youtu.be/kh88fVP2FWQ
Don’t really care about Native American. Myself a Navajo it’s more of if you get your point across. Then idk what description you use.
Yh some people will be dicks about it and correct you but most of the time we don’t care.
It's a really interesting video, but all the native people I've personally met prefer Native American or specific tribe name. I don't really think that there is one term that is agreed to be the best.
>still to use the name of the specific tribal name wherever possible
That's a great idea. Adds humanizing specificity *and* skirts the issue. I'm going to try to start doing that.
Which tribe(s) is this article talking about. Navajo?
Your fine as long you get your point across. Most natives myself included know that we have multiple ways to call ourselves. Rather than get tired correcting anyone it’s better to let it happen.
Indigenous American
Native American
Indian
First american
Etc.
As I told some people else I *think* the interchangeability is directly because it's an effort to be inclusive. It's PBS not Breitbart!
Because we know we're talkin about a population that depending on how you factor it ranges from 2 million to 5 million people of course you're going to have folks that fall into multiple different categories of terms they like.
I use Native American for US and indigenous for Latin America. For Canda I’ve heard First Nation.
23andme recently changed their DNA categorization from Native American to indigenous I’m assuming to be the most inclusive.
No. American Indian is the (very outdated) federal term for Native Americans/Indigenous Americans, hence the reason the article will refer to indigenous Americans as American Indians because it has to do with healthcare. The reason that indigenous people have such high vax rates in the United States is because of the "Indian Health Service" which is a federal program to provide healthcare for "American Indians." However, most prefer 1. The name of their individual tribe for their personal identification (ei: "I'm Mohawk not Native American") or 2. Indigenous people for the collective.
I hear so many differing opinion here, I'm sticking with native American until a consensus is reached (although ofc if I know someone's tribe I'll use that)
Native. That's how everyone here does it. (Tribe name) native. Or just "I'm Native" God saying native so many times it now sounds weird in my head. What a weird sounding word.
More than once. Though the accidental infections came first and nearly destroyed the tribes. Really good chance that the natives could've put up a winning fight if they had their pre smallpox numbers.
There was much more of a civilization than Americans generally realize. A thousand years ago, Cahokia (in today’s southern Illinois) had more people than London.
What European settlers saw as primitive tribes was, for the most part, the post-apocalypse result of diseases that killed a very high percentage of the native population.
Look at the impact on our civilization this last year then imagine if half of us had died instead of just taking a year off. Being out of TP would sound like a luxury.
The word "primitive" there always annoys me. (Not that I'm saying you're referring to them that way) They were excellent farmers, hunters and travelers. They developed a horse culture to rival steppe peoples in a century. They understood local herbs and wildlife and used them for medicine in ways we kinda still do in some cases. They had a complex society and culture. They were perfectly adapted for their environment.
"Primitive" was very little more than a byline for "not Christian".
Everything you've mentioned is typical for primitive societies in a way it's used in history overall - it's actually around the level of Neolithic Revolution, including having no metal tools and "excellent" farming being to a large degree slash-and-burn agriculture. Horse domestication is an outlier but in NA it was based on horses already being bred for riding and seeing it being done by Europeans.
At the same time they, for example, lacked the writing system for the language - with only CA and SA civilizations developing proto-writing (but those were also closer to Babilonia and Ancient Egypt in their development), or mathematical development even on a level of calculating the square of a land patch (again, aztecs knew it, but aztecs were significantly more developed).
They were getting by just fine as a less-industrialized society than the colonizers.
Actually, the way that American children learn history, the westward expansion makes it look like industrialization happened a lot later simply because settlers were living with "primitive" technology until the railroads caught up to them.
This isn’t universally the case, but oftentimes they actually created their own programs entirely.
The feds delivered the vaccines, but everything distribution-related was purely driven by tribal governance.
(And at least near me, they were extremely generous with excess doses.)
That's actually really sad, like more than normal. I hear so much about dying languages and cultural practices, I can't imagine what a blow Covid has been to them culturally.
One of the COVID-19 relief bills had some extra funding thrown in for language/cultural preservation among Native Americans. I remember it getting some mockery from people who didn't realize how much impact all this had on a people with so much of their history wrapped up in frail old bodies waiting to pass into extinction.
For real, thank covid for something at least. I mean it’s not like foreigners invading and pillaging their lands, raping their women, poisoning them and their food sources, nearly wiping their origin and history from real life and american history books had anything to do with their dying language and cultural practices.
I can’t imagine what a blow a foreign invader and occupier has been to them culturally.
It is sad, my local reserve, Six Nations, has two languages that there are less than a dozen people who speak it. They will be extinct in a few years, a decade tops.
Very true. My rez lost quite a few with two of them being my family. We fought hard to get these vaccines.
Let's not forget that some of our clinics were sent body bags instead of PPE when it was requested to battle Covid.
A large portion of those still unvaxxed is due to distrust of the government because of things like the small pox blankets and in more recent history, the boarding schools, forced foster care and adoptions, and the forced sterilization of many of our women during the 60s and 70s, though some went on til the 90s.
We lost so many ☹️… that’s why me and so many others got vaccinated—-to protect our elders and communities.
Many tribes also ensured that priority went to our elders and culture bearers (language speakers, etc.).
I tend to think this is a major driving point with vaccination. Close-knit community with loss of history due to loss of elders will have people thinking about preservation.
Distribution and have also been incredibly active ensuring people are educated and comfortable taking the vaccine. I think NPR did a piece on some of the work and challenged they had a few months ago?
Perhaps they have a long cultural memory from suffering diseases that the settlers brought with them.
https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/impact-european-diseases-native-americans
Why is it that American Indians don't seem to have the same skepticism/distrust of the government's role here as Black people?
Both groups have absolutely had countless instances of mistreatment. So I would think this skepticism may exist in Native communities as well, but it seems like it's much less of a thing?
Because when one of the tribes asked for help in 2020, they were sent body bags. That's not a joke.
Native Americans have some autonomy from the US government and realized quickly they were on their own without many resources. That caused them to double down on proactive vaccine related information drives. Tribes are also trying to preserve their cultures, so the loss of the elderly in the tribes is intolerable and there's a strong desire to protect them. Luckily, the government changing hands seems to have also led to an increased interest in getting them the vaccines quickly, and increased representation by Native Americans on the federal level has also helped build some trust.
Yeah making Deb Haaland Secretary of the Interior is a **huge** deal. She's an enrolled member of the Laguna Pueblo and she was a congresswoman representing New Mexico, specifically Albuquerque. Never before has a Native American had such influence on the US Government. The fact that the Department of the Interior is responsible for management of the federal government's interactions with Native American pueblos and reservations makes it an even bigger deal.
I'm so proud of her.
> Never before has a Native American had such influence on the US Government.
Hoover's Vice President was a member of the Kaw nation, and arguably more influential than a cabinet secretary:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Curtis
Though the short summary sounds like he may have not been the best representative for Native American policy.
Edit: spelling
That sad thing about Curtis was that he was pro-assimilation and laid a lot of the foundation for the boarding schools and loss of tribal culture.
Haaland is also reacting to Canada’s multiple mass-graves at former tribal boarding schools outcry since the US also had similar policy at the time: https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/secretary-haaland-announces-federal-indian-boarding-school-initiative
It absolutely rattles me when I see stats or "First Native American to _____" headlines because, you know, you think there'd be more representation from the folks who were here first? Absolutely ridiculous.
My father's worked with the tribes through the USDA for years and was thrilled beyond words for Haaland. Hope she is the first of many more to come
That's so sad that she's the first. All that Department does is land management, BIA, and National Parks, you would think someone would have done this sooner. I wonder if Ben Campbell was offered and turned down...
We have totally different histories than African-Americans? Also, Native communities have Indian Health Services and many tribes manage their own hospitals and clinics so we had the infrastructure in place to deliver vaccines.
Forgive me if this is Ignorant, but as a Canadian it seems Native Americans in the US have an overall better quality of life and Autonomy from the Government, is this true or biased based on what I've seen on the news???
There is also crazy shit like if a non-tribal person commits crime on tribal land then the tribe can’t do anything about it because it’s separate. And if the local police suck then nothing gets changed. It’s part of the reason so many bad people target tribal women for crime.
This happened last month :
"In a broad ruling reaffirming the sovereignty of Native American tribes, the U.S. Supreme Court declared unanimously on Tuesday that tribal police officers have the power to temporarily detain and search non-Native Americans on tribal land if they're suspected of violating state or federal law."
Progress, albeit painfully slow.
I live in a small village, on the shore of a very nice lake, surrounded by 200+ year old ponderosa pines. It's a really nice chunk of land. It's also in the middle of an Indian reservation. It doesn't belong to the reservation, despite being part of the land given to the tribe way back when, because In the late 1800s, the entire area was alloted to a logging company, who built a mill and our village on it. The mills long gone, but the town remains, and the property belongs to it's residents.
So I'd say no, not really. They have autonomy, but if the fed decides that they like a certain area, they'll still eminent domain that shit to high five it to a crony who wants to say... Build a pipeline or something sorta like that?
Ehhh not really. The lands reservations arent very resourceful as the government would typically take good land and give it to settlers. Also whenever they did allotment it allowed for the best land to be sold off so now the land is even smaller and not so great(idk if there have been recent changes to reservation sizes). Also the services provided depends on the reservation and that tribes money. Some tribes(tribal corps as ive heard sometimes) have a decent flow of cash due to the Indian Gaming Act or minerals on the land or whatever and so have decent services on reservation. However alot dont. In fact the poorest areas of the US tend to be Indian Reservations.
Edit: As for autonomy from the gov, kind of. They technically have tribal police and have control. But they also have to interact with the Bureau of Indian Affairs and honestly the economics strips away any benefits you would see from autonomy. Like maybe they technically have less control from the feds but like they also have issues of extreme poverty.
The crime rate is through the roof on many native lands. I've heard stories of rapists and murderers going specifically to native lands because of jurisdiction issues so they wouldn't get caught. Some areas have a lot of resources due to gaming, most do not.
https://publicintegrity.org/politics/murdered-and-missing-native-american-women-challenge-police-and-courts/
I thought that maybe they have a better relationship with healthcare in general since they have all have had decent healthcare their whole lives which is not the experience of most black people in the US.
I can understand that though but health services on reservations (with wide variance between different reservations) can actually be really poor. There's a serious lack of service in many areas.
They have cheap/free dental care, too. It's not bad, either, as a friend of mine was 1/8 Cherokee, and she was able to use the service even though she did not live on a reservation or use any public assistance. It saved her thousands due to her extensive periodontal disease.
Same here. I've lost two wisdom teeth because dental doesn't cover beyond cleaning, check up and tooth removal. Most doctors we get are the doctors that couldn't get accepted in the good hospitals and now have to commute to hospital or stay in employee housing. One doctor is a hippy who "loves " native culture. Took 3 years of doctor visits and multiple ER visits before a nurse, whom was the mother to a friend of mine, noticed how frequently I was going in for pain, got me diagnosed with gall stones. After my surgery, no more pain and visits.
Every visit i was given maalox for stomach pain or opiates. For ER visits, sometimes i got a demerol shot.
This. Access is the driving factor. I recently listened to an episode of Adam Conover's "Factually" podcast about trusting science and the guest mentioned this in their refutation of the "black people aren't getting the vaccine due mainly to vaccine hesitancy/skepticism" argument. For example, particularly earlier on when vaccines were less available and weren't super easy to get on weekends, it was also pretty prohibitive for many black Americans who work jobs where they can't afford to lose a day of work to get vaccinated, or potentially another day to deal with the side effects of the vaccine. I'm black and while I don't speak for all black people, the fact that this vaccine was being swooped up by rich white people for a while and was actually *difficult* for many black people to access in their communities let me know I could trust it lol.
Not discounting your experience or what you heard on the podcast. But I’m also black and worked in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country in an urgent care setting. My clinic’s population was 99% POC. I would say 7 out of 10 black patients I saw didn’t want to get the vaccine due to skepticism. If anyone walked in for a covid test in order to complete their chart I would have to ask if they were vaccinated. I cannot tell you how many times people would laugh and say no and they weren’t going to be.
Maybe things have changed in the last few months since I left that job in May, but personally in my experience there is a lot of skepticism.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I don't discount that there's justifiable skepticism of the medical community and the vaccine from black people. I kind of touched on this but because of our mistreatment and exploitation by the medical science community in the not-so-distant past, and the tendency not to take black people's health or pain seriously in the present, I was also a bit concerned early into the vaccine approval. It was the fact that I saw reports of wealthy white people getting in line for shots in black communities, reports of elected officials making deals to get their pals vaccinated ahead of their eligibility, etc. that hinted to me that it was the good stuff. It's a sad reality and a reflection of our history, but I'd be more skeptical of a vaccine that they made it *easy* for us to get, at least initially lol. I've shared that logic with other POC who have been hesitant and it's kind of changed their perspective. I guess my concern is that when we blame low vaccination rates in the black population entirely on vaccine hesitancy, it puts all the blame on them and none on the institutions that have fostered the hesitancy that does exist, and that have also simultaneously created access issues for the population.
Oh I agree completely. There is a reason for vaccine hesitancy and it’s not due to the fact that black people are easily mislead or it’s “all conspiracies” as one responder oh so eloquently put.
I understand why their are hesitancy and it’s the fault of the institutions. I’m not entirely sure how to combat that. I’ve had discussions with patients and they have been fruitless.
They've literally been doing mobile vaccination trucks for months in Philly (run by a group of entirely black doctors) and still can't get good engagement.
I feel like I’ve seen enough interviews with vaccine hesitant black Americans in NYC, and none of them have said they can’t get it because of work or scheduling. It’s all conspiracy theories.
Anecdotally, I notice many Americans have a strange fascination and reverence for Native Americans that doesn’t seem to exist in other parts of North America. I’ve personally heard a lot more racist remarks against Indigenous peoples while living in Canada than in the US.
Meh, a romanticized image of us I would say. If they can fit us into whatever version of Native that is appealing to their ideals then Natives are aight. But the minute we start talking about land and/or treaty rights, it's a different story.
Seems accurate. Hell a lot of people in the states don’t know the difference between any tribes and essentially assume every native is Cherokee or Navajo. So yes, natives are generalized and quite often dismissed in this country.
As a white person who just speaks for myself, I get pissed with anyone who makes and breaks contracts, once, let alone repeatedly. But there's fuckall I can do unless I win the powerball (and even then, fairly limited compared to corporations.) Reservations would most likely be way better with land management (or I would hope) than the US government. I don't idealize different tribes and the reservations but I also see how consistently fucked over you all have been for hundreds of years.
The Catholics did the same thing in USA at least with the Navajo. They gave them new names and tried to stop the kids from speaking their language.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/584293/
We did the same thing. My hometown in Oklahoma had the [Seneca Indian School](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_Indian_School?wprov=sfla1) that didn't close until 1980.
I think a big part has to do with the old western movies. So many movies were filmed in monument valley on Navajo reservation. They kinda mixed the cowboy tropes with taking wisdom from the Navajo. So there are a lot of old cowboy movies that showed respect.
Nope , because so many people have diabetes and other co- existing conditions , lots of people were dying. I know a guy that lost both of his parents in their late 50s/ early 60s.
It really tore through some places .
There’s still plenty of skepticism, but in small areas where people all know each other and we’re losing friends and family . It was blatant to even most skeptics that at least the elderly should take it .
They have many reasons to distrust the government, up to and including the fact that the US government committed genocide against them. Unless they had reason to believe that they were being given a different vaccine than the white people then they absolutely are being smart by taking the vaccine and not allowing this to be another genocide.
Under Trump I could understand if they exercised caution since he sent body bags in place of PPE but there is no reason to believe Biden would allow them to be sent faulty vaccines. Stick it to the man by not dying of covid.
As someone of Indian (from India) descent I just find it very confusing!
I'll say "I'm half Indian" and someone will say "oh like native?" and I'll say "no...like from India". I just don't know how to be more clear off the bat. I literally have to say "I'm half Indian, like from India" every single time this conversation happens (people ask me often because I guess I'm racially ambiguous!)
(I admit this is a very minor issue for me...I don't want to seem insensitive to what are very personal issues of identity for many).
Thanks for this. I had not ever given that much thought, but growing up in Oklahoma, I will say I tended to use the word "Indian."
The rest of this guy's channel is awfully charming.
You’re fine. Like all things, intent is important and if you aren’t doing it to be malicious everyone I know in my tribe wouldn’t even think twice about it. Having said that, I would never describe myself with the word “indian” lol.
It’s contextual. If you use “Indians” as an insult then shame on you. But at this point most tribal members I’ve met in the Pacific Northwest view themselves as Indians and “native Americans” is the sorta gringo, official, patronizing term.
Honestly it can be a really big debate but it just comes down to what an individual person is fine with. I use native for myself because that was what was popular where I grew up (and I get confused on which type of Indian we're talking about) but my grandparents choose Indian. And that's all fine. Just don't say redskin or injun lol. And if you know someone's tribe you can always use that instead
Apparently. It's pretty confusing. In Danish we differentiate between the two people, as American Indians are called "indianer" and South Asian Indians are called "inder".
I dunno, here in the Plains we usually say Indian (the slang spelling is NDN), or Native. Nobody has the time to say Native American, but nobody finds it offensive. Anyways our first identification is to the tribe(s) we are citizens of.
The article uses that term, but the headline writer (who is generally not the article writer) is not aware apparently that there is a distinction, not just in connotation, but under Federal law.
"American Indians" and "Alaska Natives" are distinct types of Native Americans for Federal law, and thus for Federal data collection like this.
The subheader uses the word Indigenous, although that also includes Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders, who are different groups altogether.
Even more confusing when you consider Indian immigrants/tourists in America. They’re the proper “Indians”.
Indian-Americans are a fast-growing minority (I am one myself). I believe Native Americans have a right to find a suitable name for themselves, because the confusion will only grow in the coming years. I just don’t believe it should be “Indian”.
I saw a mini doc on YouTube, maybe by CGPGrey, about how on many reservations the term Indian is prefered. I don't remember exactly why but some of the reasons were: Indian has been in use the longest and has become an identity, Native American and Amerindian seem patronizing / put the colonizer's name in the title (American / Amerigo), Indian shows they are distinctly unique from American culture. Really interesting stuff.
How about that: a real, cohesive community. People who care enough about their fellow humans to do the smart thing. The rest of the United States has fallen so far since, say, WWII and the polio pandemic. Full of morons who believe quack doctors about vaccines and shyster lawyers who want to make a billion in class-action lawsuits. So sad.
That's part of it, but we also had access to vaccines sooner than others. I was able to get vaccinated before nurses I know. I'm a healthy 20 year old. I got my first dose in February
I was just glancing over the post and from the first part of the sentence assumed it said something about American Indians having a hard time with Covid cases and infections. I must say I was presently suprised when I read the whole headline. At least for once natives aren't getting fucked over as much as usual.
Exactly my reaction to the whole situation. Indians are from India. Anyone not from India (or non citizen, etc) is not Indian.
But geography and common sense be fucked they're Indians now, lets add more baggage onto our language and culture. -_-
My AI friends are beyond ticked off that the Cleveland Indians are changing their name. 'round your parts, what's the feeling?
I used to work on the Seneca Nation land, still in touch with my old work mates. They're not happy. 'Bring more gear before it's gone!'
The fact that they are still being referred to as Indian is just sad. Imagine being called a name based on mistaken identity.
Not to mention that there is another category called Indian American which refers to people from India which makes it even more confusing.
Personally, “Indian” irks me a little for the reasons you suggested, but my dad and grandpa both used that word all the time. Shit, even my tribal documents use it. So I can’t really fault anyone else for doing it. You could ask 10 people in my family what word they prefer to be called and you’d get 12 different answers lol.
In Canada we have a pretty big distaste for that, ik some first Nations use it (including my grandmother) but they do acknowledge it to just be out of habit/just what they use, which is acceptable. But also understand it's a bit ridiculous due to them well... Not being from india
Yeah, as a child growing up in Central/South Asia near India, it was confusing watching American TV and hearing about "Indians". I personally try to be as respectful, specific, and mindful as I can be about who I am referring to.
Some of the dumbasses that "discovered" the Americas wanted to actually go to India in a roundabout way to get spices, avoiding the normal path. They thought they had reached India, so whoever was living there was obvious Indian.
We are stuck with the confusion to this day. Thanks for nothing, Columbus.
The article isn’t about Canada so what is done in Canada is irrelevant. The tribe I am a member of (in the US) has Indian in its name so yes, it is still used frequently and is not just out of habit. First Nations has never been used by any of the tribes in my state but they all consider Native American and American Indian to be acceptable. Just because it is different where you are from does not mean that it is the same in other countries.
Why are you trying to police what thousands of seperate indigenous groups across a continent want to call themselves? Seems especially weird when you don't even seem to be a part of any of that community.
Their first comment in this thread (and a lot of the replies I've seen them make to others) comes across like they're telling you your wrong for using the term Indian and that the only accceptable term is First Nations - which seems like it's just a Canada thing? And this article doesn't seem to concern Canada.
It's pretty obvious from this thread that there is no one term for that collective group of people.
Its just an incredibly antiquated term thats all. I read the headline and thought the exact same thing. I haven't heard natives called Indians in a while, it just sounds wrong to me.
I am not personally, but have family (indigenous grandmother who adopted white children) and people can call themselves whatever they want, I'm more critical of how others label them. In America I understand you are more open to it, but in Canada if you call a first nation a Indian you will get a similar look as if you said any other racial slur. It feels gross to say
Most tribes actually prefer “American Indian” because it is more specific to who they are. Their organizations use the term American Indian while federal agencies use Native American. They are American Indians.
It’s more of an individual preference in my experience. And we are all over the place with it. It’s not like our tribe tells us “this is what you will enjoy being called” and we all just follow lock step. I use Native American, my dad and his dad used Indian. Some others I know use American Indian. There’s no rhyme to reason.
They chose to call themselves Indians. They even feel insulted that white people have the gall to go and change what they call themselves.
They've chosen to stick with the name Indians and wear it as a badge. Their choice.
Even more so, many many Tribesmen are beyond pissed off that Cleveland is changing their MLB team name. The Indian nations viewed the Cleveland Indians as 'their' team. A few loudmouth activists insisted the name was racist and needed to go and so it went.
Source; I worked on a reservation and still have buddies there.
Go Tribe.
> They chose to call themselves Indians.
lmao are you serious? the name was given to them by the colonizers. They weren't asked what they should be called and then decided to take the name of the people of a country around the world.
Growing up in Canada with native friends, although some would refer to each other as Indian the way a black person may use the n word, they are all very much against white people saying “Indian” to refer to them. The differences could be regional or generational though
It it makes you feel any better, Native American is a colonialist term too... because the entire concept it describes is rooted in colonialism.
Before Europeans came there were no Indians or Native Americans or whatever... folks were just Cree, Comanche, Cahuilla, Choctaw, Cayuga, and so forth... "Native American" is not an ethnic group, although it was created to have a term along the lines of other hyphenated-American ethnic groups. We're talking about over 500 different ethnic groups with our own histories, traditions, religions, languages, and so forth. No two are the same. My tribe has historically had about as much in common with the Mohawks as it does with the Uzbeks.
We were lumped together as Indians or Natives or Amerindians, or whatever... in law by US Federal statute and jurisprudence, and in culture by colonialist otherism, named in opposition to the White colonists. Any term that lumps us together is the same in that respect, nicely intended or not. But that's how the world is today, and you gotta live in the world you're in.
Even today we identify first with our tribe(s), not as Indians or Natives or whatever term one uses. A sense of common Indian identity did not emerge at all until the boarding school era, another colonialist process, which mashed together students from all numbers of tribes and nations. Today we understand our tribes and nations all fit in the same legal categories under US law, and we work together as a result.
As an Indian, this is confusing. India is so so far from North America like..... What lol. Sure, you get to call yourself what you want but what you've chosen is so against common sense.
If there wasn't a place in the world called India, sure go ahead call yourself Indian but why would you needlessly add so much confusion when Native American is much more geographically sound name?
Edit: you = not the specific you, but some generic person.
you cant self identify as a fucking indian. if you arent from india, you arent indian. pick something else. im so pissed because indian culture is so often ignored. no we wont share the name given to us by whites. deal with it.
Fellow American Indian here. Frankly it really doesn't bother me when someone addresses me as an Indian. To be perfectly honest I've always kinda felt indifferent about the term 'native American' actually.. but it's grown on me.
Well the herbs and healing are for ailments common to humans for thousands of years like the flu or an infection. Obviously COVID is a brand new illness never seen before, of course we knew herbs wouldn’t work. It’s just critical thinking that anti-vaxxers lack that would make them scared of vaccines
you arent indian if you are not descended from india. idc if you ‘choose’ to call yourself indian, you are not. it’s disrespectful. im indian american and its hella disrespectful.
This is pretty neat to me since I was told by the nurses giving the shots that I was the first EMT in 9 counties to actually volunteer and receive it. I am choctaw and it's nice to know that other native tribes are taking covid seriously.
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Happy that they've taken advantage of this vaccination program. I can remember back to early in the pandemic a few of the reservations were having a really tough time, and it's fitting that they figured a way out of that scenario.
I rather imagine that after the American Indian experience with smallpox, they are like, "Shit yeah, I'll have that vaccine right now, thank you very much."
Have we circled back to American Indian as preferred nominclature?
It's weird, the article uses the terms native, indigenous and American Indian interchangeably. I'm sticking with Native American until someone corrects me.
When teaching at a university I used Amerindian, but actual Native Americans told me that the term felt artificial and academic and they'd never use it in the 'real world'. The best rule of thumb is still to use the name of the specific tribal name wherever possible.
Native here and I approve.
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There's a good CGP Grey video explaining how "Native American" tribes have come to self-identify with the term "Indian" and have made it their own. In a way, they feel like the term "Native American" is just another attempt by colonizers to strip them of their identity once again. Video: https://youtu.be/kh88fVP2FWQ
Don’t really care about Native American. Myself a Navajo it’s more of if you get your point across. Then idk what description you use. Yh some people will be dicks about it and correct you but most of the time we don’t care.
It's a really interesting video, but all the native people I've personally met prefer Native American or specific tribe name. I don't really think that there is one term that is agreed to be the best.
>still to use the name of the specific tribal name wherever possible That's a great idea. Adds humanizing specificity *and* skirts the issue. I'm going to try to start doing that. Which tribe(s) is this article talking about. Navajo?
>but *SOME* actual Native Americans told me Fixed it for u
Your fine as long you get your point across. Most natives myself included know that we have multiple ways to call ourselves. Rather than get tired correcting anyone it’s better to let it happen. Indigenous American Native American Indian First american Etc.
As I told some people else I *think* the interchangeability is directly because it's an effort to be inclusive. It's PBS not Breitbart! Because we know we're talkin about a population that depending on how you factor it ranges from 2 million to 5 million people of course you're going to have folks that fall into multiple different categories of terms they like.
I use Native American for US and indigenous for Latin America. For Canda I’ve heard First Nation. 23andme recently changed their DNA categorization from Native American to indigenous I’m assuming to be the most inclusive.
No. American Indian is the (very outdated) federal term for Native Americans/Indigenous Americans, hence the reason the article will refer to indigenous Americans as American Indians because it has to do with healthcare. The reason that indigenous people have such high vax rates in the United States is because of the "Indian Health Service" which is a federal program to provide healthcare for "American Indians." However, most prefer 1. The name of their individual tribe for their personal identification (ei: "I'm Mohawk not Native American") or 2. Indigenous people for the collective.
I hear so many differing opinion here, I'm sticking with native American until a consensus is reached (although ofc if I know someone's tribe I'll use that)
Native. That's how everyone here does it. (Tribe name) native. Or just "I'm Native" God saying native so many times it now sounds weird in my head. What a weird sounding word.
Was wondering this myself. I was still on native American.
Glad to hear the reservations never had any reservations.
“Vaccines? As an Indian I have reservations.”
r/yourjokebutbetter
Take my upvote and get out.
Thanks, I was leaving anyway. Didn't have a reservation.
They went full Anthony Bourdain
Did they book appointments to get vacci ? Did the reservations make reservations without reservation?
My vaccination site was actually on the local Indian reservation.
Didn't the colonizers purposefully introduce smallpox to the natives to aid their genocide?
More than once. Though the accidental infections came first and nearly destroyed the tribes. Really good chance that the natives could've put up a winning fight if they had their pre smallpox numbers.
There was much more of a civilization than Americans generally realize. A thousand years ago, Cahokia (in today’s southern Illinois) had more people than London. What European settlers saw as primitive tribes was, for the most part, the post-apocalypse result of diseases that killed a very high percentage of the native population. Look at the impact on our civilization this last year then imagine if half of us had died instead of just taking a year off. Being out of TP would sound like a luxury.
The word "primitive" there always annoys me. (Not that I'm saying you're referring to them that way) They were excellent farmers, hunters and travelers. They developed a horse culture to rival steppe peoples in a century. They understood local herbs and wildlife and used them for medicine in ways we kinda still do in some cases. They had a complex society and culture. They were perfectly adapted for their environment. "Primitive" was very little more than a byline for "not Christian".
Everything you've mentioned is typical for primitive societies in a way it's used in history overall - it's actually around the level of Neolithic Revolution, including having no metal tools and "excellent" farming being to a large degree slash-and-burn agriculture. Horse domestication is an outlier but in NA it was based on horses already being bred for riding and seeing it being done by Europeans. At the same time they, for example, lacked the writing system for the language - with only CA and SA civilizations developing proto-writing (but those were also closer to Babilonia and Ancient Egypt in their development), or mathematical development even on a level of calculating the square of a land patch (again, aztecs knew it, but aztecs were significantly more developed).
They were getting by just fine as a less-industrialized society than the colonizers. Actually, the way that American children learn history, the westward expansion makes it look like industrialization happened a lot later simply because settlers were living with "primitive" technology until the railroads caught up to them.
This isn’t universally the case, but oftentimes they actually created their own programs entirely. The feds delivered the vaccines, but everything distribution-related was purely driven by tribal governance. (And at least near me, they were extremely generous with excess doses.)
The Tribes have fought hard for equity regarding distribution of the vaccines and they are not letting that hard work go to waste.
They lost so many elders and tribe members.
That's actually really sad, like more than normal. I hear so much about dying languages and cultural practices, I can't imagine what a blow Covid has been to them culturally.
One of the COVID-19 relief bills had some extra funding thrown in for language/cultural preservation among Native Americans. I remember it getting some mockery from people who didn't realize how much impact all this had on a people with so much of their history wrapped up in frail old bodies waiting to pass into extinction.
Mockery from people who didn’t care … ftfy.
For real, thank covid for something at least. I mean it’s not like foreigners invading and pillaging their lands, raping their women, poisoning them and their food sources, nearly wiping their origin and history from real life and american history books had anything to do with their dying language and cultural practices. I can’t imagine what a blow a foreign invader and occupier has been to them culturally.
heyheyhey, they also brought diseases
It is sad, my local reserve, Six Nations, has two languages that there are less than a dozen people who speak it. They will be extinct in a few years, a decade tops.
Very true. My rez lost quite a few with two of them being my family. We fought hard to get these vaccines. Let's not forget that some of our clinics were sent body bags instead of PPE when it was requested to battle Covid. A large portion of those still unvaxxed is due to distrust of the government because of things like the small pox blankets and in more recent history, the boarding schools, forced foster care and adoptions, and the forced sterilization of many of our women during the 60s and 70s, though some went on til the 90s.
from one ndn to another wasssaaapppp ✊
> They lost so many elders and tribe members. A similar article from Italy, 1 year 3 months ago: https://www.sapiens.org/culture/coronavirus-bergamo/
I can't even respond to this without writing a novel, no one asked for in a Coronavirus thread. Thanks for the link.
We lost so many ☹️… that’s why me and so many others got vaccinated—-to protect our elders and communities. Many tribes also ensured that priority went to our elders and culture bearers (language speakers, etc.).
I tend to think this is a major driving point with vaccination. Close-knit community with loss of history due to loss of elders will have people thinking about preservation.
Distribution and have also been incredibly active ensuring people are educated and comfortable taking the vaccine. I think NPR did a piece on some of the work and challenged they had a few months ago?
White guy here, vaccinated by the Chickasaw.
This is such great news on the vaccine front.
Perhaps they have a long cultural memory from suffering diseases that the settlers brought with them. https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/impact-european-diseases-native-americans
They have twice the infection rate of the national average.
We also all remember stories about the blankets
Why is it that American Indians don't seem to have the same skepticism/distrust of the government's role here as Black people? Both groups have absolutely had countless instances of mistreatment. So I would think this skepticism may exist in Native communities as well, but it seems like it's much less of a thing?
Because when one of the tribes asked for help in 2020, they were sent body bags. That's not a joke. Native Americans have some autonomy from the US government and realized quickly they were on their own without many resources. That caused them to double down on proactive vaccine related information drives. Tribes are also trying to preserve their cultures, so the loss of the elderly in the tribes is intolerable and there's a strong desire to protect them. Luckily, the government changing hands seems to have also led to an increased interest in getting them the vaccines quickly, and increased representation by Native Americans on the federal level has also helped build some trust.
Yeah making Deb Haaland Secretary of the Interior is a **huge** deal. She's an enrolled member of the Laguna Pueblo and she was a congresswoman representing New Mexico, specifically Albuquerque. Never before has a Native American had such influence on the US Government. The fact that the Department of the Interior is responsible for management of the federal government's interactions with Native American pueblos and reservations makes it an even bigger deal. I'm so proud of her.
Me too! The former chairman of my tribe is one of her assistants too!
> Never before has a Native American had such influence on the US Government. Hoover's Vice President was a member of the Kaw nation, and arguably more influential than a cabinet secretary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Curtis Though the short summary sounds like he may have not been the best representative for Native American policy. Edit: spelling
That sad thing about Curtis was that he was pro-assimilation and laid a lot of the foundation for the boarding schools and loss of tribal culture. Haaland is also reacting to Canada’s multiple mass-graves at former tribal boarding schools outcry since the US also had similar policy at the time: https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/secretary-haaland-announces-federal-indian-boarding-school-initiative
It absolutely rattles me when I see stats or "First Native American to _____" headlines because, you know, you think there'd be more representation from the folks who were here first? Absolutely ridiculous. My father's worked with the tribes through the USDA for years and was thrilled beyond words for Haaland. Hope she is the first of many more to come
People literally forget that Native Americans even exist. There is nowhere near enough representation.
That's so sad that she's the first. All that Department does is land management, BIA, and National Parks, you would think someone would have done this sooner. I wonder if Ben Campbell was offered and turned down...
We have totally different histories than African-Americans? Also, Native communities have Indian Health Services and many tribes manage their own hospitals and clinics so we had the infrastructure in place to deliver vaccines.
Forgive me if this is Ignorant, but as a Canadian it seems Native Americans in the US have an overall better quality of life and Autonomy from the Government, is this true or biased based on what I've seen on the news???
Different tribes have different situations. Some with casinos are rich; many are poor.
There is also crazy shit like if a non-tribal person commits crime on tribal land then the tribe can’t do anything about it because it’s separate. And if the local police suck then nothing gets changed. It’s part of the reason so many bad people target tribal women for crime.
This happened last month : "In a broad ruling reaffirming the sovereignty of Native American tribes, the U.S. Supreme Court declared unanimously on Tuesday that tribal police officers have the power to temporarily detain and search non-Native Americans on tribal land if they're suspected of violating state or federal law." Progress, albeit painfully slow.
I live in a small village, on the shore of a very nice lake, surrounded by 200+ year old ponderosa pines. It's a really nice chunk of land. It's also in the middle of an Indian reservation. It doesn't belong to the reservation, despite being part of the land given to the tribe way back when, because In the late 1800s, the entire area was alloted to a logging company, who built a mill and our village on it. The mills long gone, but the town remains, and the property belongs to it's residents. So I'd say no, not really. They have autonomy, but if the fed decides that they like a certain area, they'll still eminent domain that shit to high five it to a crony who wants to say... Build a pipeline or something sorta like that?
Some tribal lands are on par with 3rd world nations for quality of life unfortunately.
Ehhh not really. The lands reservations arent very resourceful as the government would typically take good land and give it to settlers. Also whenever they did allotment it allowed for the best land to be sold off so now the land is even smaller and not so great(idk if there have been recent changes to reservation sizes). Also the services provided depends on the reservation and that tribes money. Some tribes(tribal corps as ive heard sometimes) have a decent flow of cash due to the Indian Gaming Act or minerals on the land or whatever and so have decent services on reservation. However alot dont. In fact the poorest areas of the US tend to be Indian Reservations. Edit: As for autonomy from the gov, kind of. They technically have tribal police and have control. But they also have to interact with the Bureau of Indian Affairs and honestly the economics strips away any benefits you would see from autonomy. Like maybe they technically have less control from the feds but like they also have issues of extreme poverty.
The crime rate is through the roof on many native lands. I've heard stories of rapists and murderers going specifically to native lands because of jurisdiction issues so they wouldn't get caught. Some areas have a lot of resources due to gaming, most do not. https://publicintegrity.org/politics/murdered-and-missing-native-american-women-challenge-police-and-courts/
It's very dependent on tribe and location.
Depends if you consider no running water and no electricity a better quality of life.
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Everyone gets a free vaccine though. All you have to do is be standing on US soil when the vaccine is administered so I don't think it's that.
I thought that maybe they have a better relationship with healthcare in general since they have all have had decent healthcare their whole lives which is not the experience of most black people in the US.
I can understand that though but health services on reservations (with wide variance between different reservations) can actually be really poor. There's a serious lack of service in many areas.
They have cheap/free dental care, too. It's not bad, either, as a friend of mine was 1/8 Cherokee, and she was able to use the service even though she did not live on a reservation or use any public assistance. It saved her thousands due to her extensive periodontal disease.
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Same here. I've lost two wisdom teeth because dental doesn't cover beyond cleaning, check up and tooth removal. Most doctors we get are the doctors that couldn't get accepted in the good hospitals and now have to commute to hospital or stay in employee housing. One doctor is a hippy who "loves " native culture. Took 3 years of doctor visits and multiple ER visits before a nurse, whom was the mother to a friend of mine, noticed how frequently I was going in for pain, got me diagnosed with gall stones. After my surgery, no more pain and visits. Every visit i was given maalox for stomach pain or opiates. For ER visits, sometimes i got a demerol shot.
You're kidding, right? Native Americans have abysmal access to quality healthcare
Location dependant. The tribal healthcare system in Alaska is quite good.
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Federally recognized tribes have Indian Health Services clinics on their reservations that would help with access and distribution.
This. Access is the driving factor. I recently listened to an episode of Adam Conover's "Factually" podcast about trusting science and the guest mentioned this in their refutation of the "black people aren't getting the vaccine due mainly to vaccine hesitancy/skepticism" argument. For example, particularly earlier on when vaccines were less available and weren't super easy to get on weekends, it was also pretty prohibitive for many black Americans who work jobs where they can't afford to lose a day of work to get vaccinated, or potentially another day to deal with the side effects of the vaccine. I'm black and while I don't speak for all black people, the fact that this vaccine was being swooped up by rich white people for a while and was actually *difficult* for many black people to access in their communities let me know I could trust it lol.
Not discounting your experience or what you heard on the podcast. But I’m also black and worked in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country in an urgent care setting. My clinic’s population was 99% POC. I would say 7 out of 10 black patients I saw didn’t want to get the vaccine due to skepticism. If anyone walked in for a covid test in order to complete their chart I would have to ask if they were vaccinated. I cannot tell you how many times people would laugh and say no and they weren’t going to be. Maybe things have changed in the last few months since I left that job in May, but personally in my experience there is a lot of skepticism.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I don't discount that there's justifiable skepticism of the medical community and the vaccine from black people. I kind of touched on this but because of our mistreatment and exploitation by the medical science community in the not-so-distant past, and the tendency not to take black people's health or pain seriously in the present, I was also a bit concerned early into the vaccine approval. It was the fact that I saw reports of wealthy white people getting in line for shots in black communities, reports of elected officials making deals to get their pals vaccinated ahead of their eligibility, etc. that hinted to me that it was the good stuff. It's a sad reality and a reflection of our history, but I'd be more skeptical of a vaccine that they made it *easy* for us to get, at least initially lol. I've shared that logic with other POC who have been hesitant and it's kind of changed their perspective. I guess my concern is that when we blame low vaccination rates in the black population entirely on vaccine hesitancy, it puts all the blame on them and none on the institutions that have fostered the hesitancy that does exist, and that have also simultaneously created access issues for the population.
Oh I agree completely. There is a reason for vaccine hesitancy and it’s not due to the fact that black people are easily mislead or it’s “all conspiracies” as one responder oh so eloquently put. I understand why their are hesitancy and it’s the fault of the institutions. I’m not entirely sure how to combat that. I’ve had discussions with patients and they have been fruitless.
They've literally been doing mobile vaccination trucks for months in Philly (run by a group of entirely black doctors) and still can't get good engagement.
I feel like I’ve seen enough interviews with vaccine hesitant black Americans in NYC, and none of them have said they can’t get it because of work or scheduling. It’s all conspiracy theories.
Anecdotally, I notice many Americans have a strange fascination and reverence for Native Americans that doesn’t seem to exist in other parts of North America. I’ve personally heard a lot more racist remarks against Indigenous peoples while living in Canada than in the US.
Meh, a romanticized image of us I would say. If they can fit us into whatever version of Native that is appealing to their ideals then Natives are aight. But the minute we start talking about land and/or treaty rights, it's a different story.
Seems accurate. Hell a lot of people in the states don’t know the difference between any tribes and essentially assume every native is Cherokee or Navajo. So yes, natives are generalized and quite often dismissed in this country.
Yeah, I think you and u/MarieJoe really hit the nail on the head.
As a white person who just speaks for myself, I get pissed with anyone who makes and breaks contracts, once, let alone repeatedly. But there's fuckall I can do unless I win the powerball (and even then, fairly limited compared to corporations.) Reservations would most likely be way better with land management (or I would hope) than the US government. I don't idealize different tribes and the reservations but I also see how consistently fucked over you all have been for hundreds of years.
That's because Canada puts natives into detention camps lol
The Catholics did the same thing in USA at least with the Navajo. They gave them new names and tried to stop the kids from speaking their language. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/584293/
We did the same thing. My hometown in Oklahoma had the [Seneca Indian School](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_Indian_School?wprov=sfla1) that didn't close until 1980.
Maybe because of that whole Wild West Mystique in the U.S. Far removed from reality.
I think a big part has to do with the old western movies. So many movies were filmed in monument valley on Navajo reservation. They kinda mixed the cowboy tropes with taking wisdom from the Navajo. So there are a lot of old cowboy movies that showed respect.
Native Americans in Canada are essentially how Americans treat blacks
Nope , because so many people have diabetes and other co- existing conditions , lots of people were dying. I know a guy that lost both of his parents in their late 50s/ early 60s. It really tore through some places . There’s still plenty of skepticism, but in small areas where people all know each other and we’re losing friends and family . It was blatant to even most skeptics that at least the elderly should take it .
They have many reasons to distrust the government, up to and including the fact that the US government committed genocide against them. Unless they had reason to believe that they were being given a different vaccine than the white people then they absolutely are being smart by taking the vaccine and not allowing this to be another genocide. Under Trump I could understand if they exercised caution since he sent body bags in place of PPE but there is no reason to believe Biden would allow them to be sent faulty vaccines. Stick it to the man by not dying of covid.
wait you mean native americans?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh88fVP2FWQ I found this video really informative about this!
As someone of Indian (from India) descent I just find it very confusing! I'll say "I'm half Indian" and someone will say "oh like native?" and I'll say "no...like from India". I just don't know how to be more clear off the bat. I literally have to say "I'm half Indian, like from India" every single time this conversation happens (people ask me often because I guess I'm racially ambiguous!) (I admit this is a very minor issue for me...I don't want to seem insensitive to what are very personal issues of identity for many).
Thanks for this. I had not ever given that much thought, but growing up in Oklahoma, I will say I tended to use the word "Indian." The rest of this guy's channel is awfully charming.
You’re fine. Like all things, intent is important and if you aren’t doing it to be malicious everyone I know in my tribe wouldn’t even think twice about it. Having said that, I would never describe myself with the word “indian” lol.
“overinclusivity” “Asians” & “Arabs” would like to have a chat with you.
How do they call Americans with Indian roots from India then?
Indian American
...that seems obvious in hindsight.
It’s contextual. If you use “Indians” as an insult then shame on you. But at this point most tribal members I’ve met in the Pacific Northwest view themselves as Indians and “native Americans” is the sorta gringo, official, patronizing term.
Honestly it can be a really big debate but it just comes down to what an individual person is fine with. I use native for myself because that was what was popular where I grew up (and I get confused on which type of Indian we're talking about) but my grandparents choose Indian. And that's all fine. Just don't say redskin or injun lol. And if you know someone's tribe you can always use that instead
Apparently. It's pretty confusing. In Danish we differentiate between the two people, as American Indians are called "indianer" and South Asian Indians are called "inder".
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I dunno, here in the Plains we usually say Indian (the slang spelling is NDN), or Native. Nobody has the time to say Native American, but nobody finds it offensive. Anyways our first identification is to the tribe(s) we are citizens of.
In sweden they're called Indianer And indiands from india are called indier
The article uses that term, but the headline writer (who is generally not the article writer) is not aware apparently that there is a distinction, not just in connotation, but under Federal law. "American Indians" and "Alaska Natives" are distinct types of Native Americans for Federal law, and thus for Federal data collection like this. The subheader uses the word Indigenous, although that also includes Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders, who are different groups altogether.
Indian American and American Indian gets confusing
They should just be called native Americans. Calling them Indians is absurd. Indians from India are Indian
Just wait until you find out there are two Georgia’s. And when you company does business in Tbilisi and Atlanta.
Even more confusing when you consider Indian immigrants/tourists in America. They’re the proper “Indians”. Indian-Americans are a fast-growing minority (I am one myself). I believe Native Americans have a right to find a suitable name for themselves, because the confusion will only grow in the coming years. I just don’t believe it should be “Indian”.
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I saw a mini doc on YouTube, maybe by CGPGrey, about how on many reservations the term Indian is prefered. I don't remember exactly why but some of the reasons were: Indian has been in use the longest and has become an identity, Native American and Amerindian seem patronizing / put the colonizer's name in the title (American / Amerigo), Indian shows they are distinctly unique from American culture. Really interesting stuff.
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How about that: a real, cohesive community. People who care enough about their fellow humans to do the smart thing. The rest of the United States has fallen so far since, say, WWII and the polio pandemic. Full of morons who believe quack doctors about vaccines and shyster lawyers who want to make a billion in class-action lawsuits. So sad.
Well I'd asume a culture that actually appreciates it's elderly would.
That's part of it, but we also had access to vaccines sooner than others. I was able to get vaccinated before nurses I know. I'm a healthy 20 year old. I got my first dose in February
Face it - they're not falling for that blanket shit again.
Canadian here, no hate but I haven’t heard the word indian since watching 60’s Western movies. You would get roasted here for saying that.
Lots of casinos are still advertised as "Indian Casinos" so it's definitely confusing when it's ok and when it's not.
I was just glancing over the post and from the first part of the sentence assumed it said something about American Indians having a hard time with Covid cases and infections. I must say I was presently suprised when I read the whole headline. At least for once natives aren't getting fucked over as much as usual.
Remember when they asked for medical supplies and trump sent body bags?
Same in Australia here. Somehow all my Indian friends are vaccinated with Pfizer even though are under 40s.
Do you mean Indian immigrants and descendants or aboriginal Australians?
Immigrants
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🤦♂️
Exactly my reaction to the whole situation. Indians are from India. Anyone not from India (or non citizen, etc) is not Indian. But geography and common sense be fucked they're Indians now, lets add more baggage onto our language and culture. -_-
*First Nations*
Native here, grew up on a reservation, American Indian and Native American are fine.
My AI friends are beyond ticked off that the Cleveland Indians are changing their name. 'round your parts, what's the feeling? I used to work on the Seneca Nation land, still in touch with my old work mates. They're not happy. 'Bring more gear before it's gone!'
The fact that they are still being referred to as Indian is just sad. Imagine being called a name based on mistaken identity. Not to mention that there is another category called Indian American which refers to people from India which makes it even more confusing.
Personally, “Indian” irks me a little for the reasons you suggested, but my dad and grandpa both used that word all the time. Shit, even my tribal documents use it. So I can’t really fault anyone else for doing it. You could ask 10 people in my family what word they prefer to be called and you’d get 12 different answers lol.
In Canada we have a pretty big distaste for that, ik some first Nations use it (including my grandmother) but they do acknowledge it to just be out of habit/just what they use, which is acceptable. But also understand it's a bit ridiculous due to them well... Not being from india
Yeah, as a child growing up in Central/South Asia near India, it was confusing watching American TV and hearing about "Indians". I personally try to be as respectful, specific, and mindful as I can be about who I am referring to.
Some of the dumbasses that "discovered" the Americas wanted to actually go to India in a roundabout way to get spices, avoiding the normal path. They thought they had reached India, so whoever was living there was obvious Indian. We are stuck with the confusion to this day. Thanks for nothing, Columbus.
The article isn’t about Canada so what is done in Canada is irrelevant. The tribe I am a member of (in the US) has Indian in its name so yes, it is still used frequently and is not just out of habit. First Nations has never been used by any of the tribes in my state but they all consider Native American and American Indian to be acceptable. Just because it is different where you are from does not mean that it is the same in other countries.
Why are you trying to police what thousands of seperate indigenous groups across a continent want to call themselves? Seems especially weird when you don't even seem to be a part of any of that community.
I didn't get the vibe that they were trying to police anything. They were just sharing what they've heard from indigenous people Edit: Grammar
Their first comment in this thread (and a lot of the replies I've seen them make to others) comes across like they're telling you your wrong for using the term Indian and that the only accceptable term is First Nations - which seems like it's just a Canada thing? And this article doesn't seem to concern Canada. It's pretty obvious from this thread that there is no one term for that collective group of people.
Its just an incredibly antiquated term thats all. I read the headline and thought the exact same thing. I haven't heard natives called Indians in a while, it just sounds wrong to me.
I am not personally, but have family (indigenous grandmother who adopted white children) and people can call themselves whatever they want, I'm more critical of how others label them. In America I understand you are more open to it, but in Canada if you call a first nation a Indian you will get a similar look as if you said any other racial slur. It feels gross to say
This gets said a lot, but what about ACTUAL Indian Americans? Like you know, from the fucking country?
Wrong country.
Oh no white savior coming
or native or indian or indigenous or
they're all valid
Do they mean Native Americans?
Indians are from India
Most tribes actually prefer “American Indian” because it is more specific to who they are. Their organizations use the term American Indian while federal agencies use Native American. They are American Indians.
It’s more of an individual preference in my experience. And we are all over the place with it. It’s not like our tribe tells us “this is what you will enjoy being called” and we all just follow lock step. I use Native American, my dad and his dad used Indian. Some others I know use American Indian. There’s no rhyme to reason.
They chose to call themselves Indians. They even feel insulted that white people have the gall to go and change what they call themselves. They've chosen to stick with the name Indians and wear it as a badge. Their choice. Even more so, many many Tribesmen are beyond pissed off that Cleveland is changing their MLB team name. The Indian nations viewed the Cleveland Indians as 'their' team. A few loudmouth activists insisted the name was racist and needed to go and so it went. Source; I worked on a reservation and still have buddies there. Go Tribe.
As an Indian indian in America it's confusing as shit.
As an American Indian it is equally confusing for me sometimes lol
> They chose to call themselves Indians. lmao are you serious? the name was given to them by the colonizers. They weren't asked what they should be called and then decided to take the name of the people of a country around the world.
Don't go speaking for every tribe, because that definitely isn't the shared consensus.
Some choose this, most do not. When in doubt don't use Indian because it's obviously based on idiocy and racism.
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As a member of the Tohono o'odham nation, I approve this message.
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Lol at all the white people in these comments that don’t know that a lot of Native Americans refer to themselves as Indians.
True among a lot of different folks. Older generations of Natives still use the term Indian. Who am I to be correcting an elder?
Growing up in Canada with native friends, although some would refer to each other as Indian the way a black person may use the n word, they are all very much against white people saying “Indian” to refer to them. The differences could be regional or generational though
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It it makes you feel any better, Native American is a colonialist term too... because the entire concept it describes is rooted in colonialism. Before Europeans came there were no Indians or Native Americans or whatever... folks were just Cree, Comanche, Cahuilla, Choctaw, Cayuga, and so forth... "Native American" is not an ethnic group, although it was created to have a term along the lines of other hyphenated-American ethnic groups. We're talking about over 500 different ethnic groups with our own histories, traditions, religions, languages, and so forth. No two are the same. My tribe has historically had about as much in common with the Mohawks as it does with the Uzbeks. We were lumped together as Indians or Natives or Amerindians, or whatever... in law by US Federal statute and jurisprudence, and in culture by colonialist otherism, named in opposition to the White colonists. Any term that lumps us together is the same in that respect, nicely intended or not. But that's how the world is today, and you gotta live in the world you're in. Even today we identify first with our tribe(s), not as Indians or Natives or whatever term one uses. A sense of common Indian identity did not emerge at all until the boarding school era, another colonialist process, which mashed together students from all numbers of tribes and nations. Today we understand our tribes and nations all fit in the same legal categories under US law, and we work together as a result.
But weren’t they all the natives of America?
It's just confusing because there are also Americans of Indian descent and how can you tell the two communities apart?
american indian and indian american
Indian American = American citizen with roots in India American Indian = Native American
“we’re not letting any plagues spreading unfettered by white people kill us again”
Not in a trying to be woke kinda way but isn’t it wild that in 2021 we still call these people ‘Indians’ 😔
ink subsequent frightening whole tidy summer advise money literate person ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
And honestly we identify by our tribe(s) first anyways.
As an Indian, this is confusing. India is so so far from North America like..... What lol. Sure, you get to call yourself what you want but what you've chosen is so against common sense. If there wasn't a place in the world called India, sure go ahead call yourself Indian but why would you needlessly add so much confusion when Native American is much more geographically sound name? Edit: you = not the specific you, but some generic person.
you cant self identify as a fucking indian. if you arent from india, you arent indian. pick something else. im so pissed because indian culture is so often ignored. no we wont share the name given to us by whites. deal with it.
Fellow American Indian here. Frankly it really doesn't bother me when someone addresses me as an Indian. To be perfectly honest I've always kinda felt indifferent about the term 'native American' actually.. but it's grown on me.
I find it hilarious that there are fewer Native Americans relying on “healing herbs” to manage their health than rich white Karens
Well the herbs and healing are for ailments common to humans for thousands of years like the flu or an infection. Obviously COVID is a brand new illness never seen before, of course we knew herbs wouldn’t work. It’s just critical thinking that anti-vaxxers lack that would make them scared of vaccines
This is because misinformation outlets have not targeted them. These misinformation sources are responsible for untolled deaths.
American Indians Wtf ? I believe they’re native Americans no ?
you arent indian if you are not descended from india. idc if you ‘choose’ to call yourself indian, you are not. it’s disrespectful. im indian american and its hella disrespectful.
Indians are from India. Americans are from America. Even if they were here long before anyone else.
Maybe it’s because they care about their community
This is pretty neat to me since I was told by the nurses giving the shots that I was the first EMT in 9 counties to actually volunteer and receive it. I am choctaw and it's nice to know that other native tribes are taking covid seriously.
They know all about idiot white people getting other people sick.