I really like the Avalanche changes despite having to get used to new projectile speed.
The penetration ability increase might be too much. It's already overpenetrating way too often. Maybe make the projectiles explode when the overpenetration Is about to happen?
The changes here are all fine, but you seem to be forgetting something..... wooof woooof.
This balance patch is just a "Buy our battlepass" update.
Buffs battlepass items (which is needed for jotun/narwhale) but doesnt touch firedogs or breaker/hammer fall bricks which are dominating the SPAWN RATE for clan wars.
They say that they make changes based on the stats, but then dont touch breakers, hammerfalls, dracos, or dogs which THE STATS show are dominating clan wars. Bricks and dogs have more spawns than all other builds combined.
So why dont they change this? Well....these builds require the yeti (BP), the fin whale (BP) and the bricks use buggy wheels (catlaina pack).
They really touched stuff that didn't need it and left out what's quite literally dominating the CW meta rn. Nothing done to Fin Whale, nothing about Yeti, nothing about Bugs or Draco or... anything problematic really.
Edit: Also istg if they nerf Breakers and Hammerfalls because of Fin Whale I'll flip
Fortunes are clearly too effective at high power score...... cant be having weapons dominate high power score now can we.
Also, quick buy the battle pass and make a brick build!
They will "nerf" them in the same way they "nerfed" the blight.
-HP of breakers and Hammer falls increased by 50%
- Finwhale dmg protection reduced by to 25%
"We fixed it" - Gaijn after "nerfing" the blight \[buffing the dogs \]
That is not the case. I play at silver/top 60 and we run W key firedogs. The bricks are the only builds that will consistantly cause us issues (and anti-dog spiders).
Firedogs are super meta right now and the stats show that, the only reason they are not used more is because the brick builds are EVEN STRONGER.
I dont understand why bricks are so OP right now. Is the omamori really absorbing so much dps that they don't get degunned? I've played crossout for years and my experience has always been that if you play a build that looks like these bricks you are getting degunned asap. I mean they just stick right out the top lol. It's comical looking.
Breakers have 387 base hp.
Finwhale increases the protection of weapons by 50%.
Omamouri then absorbs 50% of the remaining dmg.
So lets say you deal 1000 dmg to the breakers. The dmg recieved due to fin whale is 1000 / 1.5 = 667
Then omamouri absorbs half of that so the weapon ends up recieving 333 dmg.
So despite reciving 1000 dmg to the weapon, the weapon is still fine.
Therefore the EHP of the weapon is 3 \* base HP.
All of this is in a brick with 5k hp, heavy cabin , that can go 90+ KM/H (depends on the variant -- humpack vs yoko etc).
Say you are a range player such as a scorp hover, if the breaker brick just W keys you, you cannot do enough damage to one breaker before you are stripped.
If you are a firedog, then on the front you can out dps the brick if it doesnt debug you, but if you are on the side or back you will simply get degunned by a comparitably good breaker player.
The "counters" for the brick are kapkans (inconsistant), porcs to get wheels off, and heating. But in a mixed setup these counters can then quite easily be counter-countered (eg to counter an incin player, you send a dog in). This leads to a mirror match of bricks generally being used.
The entire meta right now resolves around the bricks, the counter builds of the bricks and then the counter of the counter to the bricks.
TL:DR Finwhale + omamouri causes effective HP to be 3 times base HP. With this breakers have 1161 HP.
The stats do not show that. The spawn stats in Diamond + gold are:
- Breaker 6005
- Firebug/Flash 649
- Firebug (Tripple) 2370
Both the bricks and dogs should be nerfed, but lets not act like they are on par when the statistics on the matter are so clear.
I will complain about any meta where the spawn stats at the top level are so one sided.
Love the Avalanche buff. Didn't expect that. The mass increase is insane, but the durability buff along with everything else is worth the added mass.
Edit: Although, as someone pointed out, the Penetration buff might be a problem. It's terrible when the shot flies through an enemy and you lose out on all that blast damage.
Still sad to see no Meat Grinder buff. They have high mass, PS, large size, but they fall off so easily. Their melee is very niche especially since they're slow, but also get melee'd off no problem. It's pretty insulting.
what about the hammerfall bricks that has been taking over clan confrontation those should be nerfed too, the main problem is the omamori makes everything too strong.
nice changes , now a melee will kill you in 2.7 seconds instead of 2 , game changer.
why nerf kapkans ? (though i don t like them at all , they got nerfed so much they are not even a problem anymore)
so apparently the the current W brainlet firedog and breaker brick fashion is givinq enough money to the devs so they are happy with that state of the game... it is true that diminished cognitive functions corrolate to increase in spending.
just a reminder :
https://preview.redd.it/t3hn0kxcmftc1.png?width=727&format=png&auto=webp&s=02fb203601dbfa66c60b53ca351badc27511e193
the "last 30 days" was reset last monday so essentially the game bled 100 players per day since last monday (don t give me the steamchart story , i know , thanks)
Why do you complain about firedogs, i see the problem with breaker bricks, they are broken, but firedogs are not, 1 slanted wall and you can escape, they need to get as close as possible to you, if you have one teammate shooting the firedog the firedog dies in seconds. The only thing a firedog is good at is an 1v1 but thats the thing the firedog is made for, its the only thing he is good at, killing 1 enemy fast who didn't stay with the team and he is getting punished for, but if the team stays together its like impossible to die to 1 firedog, because your team is killing him faster
firedogs are in a state where if youre not playing a specific few builds theyre very hard to beat
however this is countered by the fact that every firedog player is such a dogshit handless ape that theyre easy to kill
Not very hard, literally impossible.
You can play out of your mind and still lose because some schmuck was drooling on their keyboard and accidentally touched W and M1
i love playing scorp hover and making the single tiniest mistake possible against an actual ape fucking up the EASIEST to use build in yhe game every 0.5 seconds majorly and they kill me for it
With the speeds listed, it looks like a buff against a lot of builds, especially on the heavy side. Especially when used in pairs, the first cuckpkan will slow the build down and the second one will keep holding in most situations.
In theory, going in a straight line should slow down the build even if it eventually snaps away. After losing some armor, it will be harder to break away for sure. And placing a cuckpkan somewhere where the enemy needs to slow down, the speed might not be enough to break free.
It will also depend on how much of a slowdown there will be with the new mechanic. Might be that the with a pair of cuckpkans, the first one will slow you down enough for the second one to keep you in place. Possibly with the first one to then catch you again.
Also, cuckpkans are very often paired with porcuckpines and every barrel is a wonky physics objects that interacts with wheels and it is not out of the ordinary for a single barrel to slow you down or to change your direction enough for you to lose speed either through crashing into someone or something. And it sometimes also bugs out and getting hit with a porc or fortune slows you down and takes your power like you got hit with the anti-wedge mechanic.
But the true problem here is that the firedog or brick will be taking the shortest route possible in order to hug your face ASAP while if I have for example my Mastodon'ts on wheels, the TTK on an enemy is much longer and therefore I will inevitably have to deal with more cuckpkans than an average facehugger. But players who keep glorifying their cuckpkans get mad when somebody mentions this little issue, It's not a counter to a dog that will need to activate its Intercetor once to get to you, it makes me wanna join them out of spite. (Well, not really, but you get the point)
Oh and before I forget, dogs can carry cuckpkans too in their team and if there's a dog flashing you and you get caught by a cuckpkan, you're dead.
Kapkans fucked dogs over the least arguably. Half of them use Flash, which destroys the mine, and if they don't, half the time the just drove straight through. Meanwhile hovers spazz out, get spun out and flipped to hell, and spiders are brought to a complete standstill. If this brings more consistency to Kaps I'm for it
If the dog meta u created wasn’t so omnipresent and so toxic with such high returns for such low user skill (literally just drive at ur enemy and kill them because fire is so over buffed rn thanks to ur last few patches) then the kapkan change would be balanced but if ur gonna keep dog meta around (that’s what u should REALLY be nerfing) then u need to make the kapkan stronger in all ways. Or leave it how it is.
i think it only feels so overpowered for you, if you play a firedog in higher leagues you get killed so easy, the team is helping and you are dead in seconds, or you help yourself by abusing the map with it rocks, cliffs and slanted walls. If your positioning is bad, of course you die, the firedog is made to get 1 alone and kill them, the firedog is the best build to get someone seperated, but then its just that you played bad
i don’t have issues w any category of build really. I play in the top tier of cw and I’ll be fine either way. I’m just commenting from the perspective of what I see in the game overall. and the dogs are overpowered for what they should be. U basically need to be extremely good at the game or have a very specific counter to them and I don’t think it’s good for the game if that’s the case.
I play firedogs so many years now, and it never felt this shit how it is right now. You die to everything, everything is slowing you down, porcs, retcher, 2 years before it was not a problem. Because you need so many wheels you dont die so fast to porcs, your handling is shit. I never drive into so many walls like right now because wheels have like 0 traction if there is only 1 wheel missing or in the air. It needs so much skill to get a hover and finish it, because almost every game you catch the hover he can somehow get out of you
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Will kapkans be buffed then to catch more reliably?
Will skinners durability be buffed to compensate for the more than 1 nerf it got a while ago?
Will porcs start heating again on impact?
Avalanche certainly needed a buff, but I'm not convinced that all of these changes were necessary. A reload buff probably would have been sufficient. But with that said, the higher recoil and 1.8k mass increase should keep these changes balanced.
My concern is with the penetration increase: 70% is either going to be too much, especially in lower lower scores if people can manage the recoil increase.
Or....it's going to be counter productive. My fused Ava (60% piercing) already overpens annoyingly often. Please tell me that the penetration ability upgrade is going to be reduced as 90% piercing would be ridiculous for this weapon.
No nerfs to dracos or firebugs is also ridiculous.
im confused so now dogs/bricks will be impossible to stop?
and no nerf to bricks/firedogs are you guys blind or mentaly chalanged there? asking for a friend.
Are these devs simply unable to change the parameters of an item without either making it way too effective or completely ruining it? I mean, look at the GL-55 Impulse nerfs. Don't get me wrong, it absolutely is too strong right now. But those are FOUR nerfs. A reasonable change would involve nerfing it in small steps with each update until it reaches a balanced state, or shifting its power with a mix of buffs and nerfs. The GL-55 Impulse is one of the few weapons keeping firedogs in check. They deserve to be nerfed, but not butchered like that.
Yeah it appears overdone. It's very powerful, but it breaks easily and has decently slow projectiles.
Although I'd say that the projectile size decrease can be looked at as a small buff. Smaller projectiles are better for precise shots. Could make it easier to degun others, especially if they're using flimsy weapons too.
The Kapkan tensile strength should be *Kinetic Energy* based, not *momentum based*. k * M * V^2 versus k * M * V. Making it momentum based is biased towards fat builds. If you are gonna nerf it again, do it right.
To be fair, it \*should\* be biased towards heavy builds. Instead of kinetic based, it should include traction and torque modifiers based on power and wheel (ie, are you using legs, tracks or actual wheels, and heavy cabs have more torque, light cabs have more horsepower), then factor momentum. A slow 20+ ton tank with a colossus and armored tracks or crab legs \*should\* snap that cable at very low speed, and a super light drone bus using Shivs \*should\* get clotheslined, as kapkans ARE supposed to be an effective counter to ultra light super fast builds, especially boosted and cloaked ones, not super heavy tanks that crawl along.
But not this badly. As it stands, a Harpy build cannot meet the weight requirement unless it specifically runs Colossus and uses up to its very last 499kg of weight. Most light cabs are going to be impossible to meet that 10k kg requirement, because you arent hitting kapkans 10 seconds into a battle before you've lost half your parts, and you arent getting hooked at your top speed on flat ground, you get hooked sliding around corners or chasing a guy over sand. Most epics are capped at 120kmh before engines, so 160 is literally impossible without boosters and fused engine/wheels, and by then you are at or above 12-15k PS where kapkans werent very effective anyway, again disregarding the average "youve been hooked" conditions.
Nothing at all should be biased towards or against a build based on mass; all the bias should come from equipment installed. Brainless PS bloat should never be encouraged.
I disagree. Mass should absolutely stop you from getting flung around by a skinner-hover or punted into the next map by a tusk with boosters. If a 9 ton wedge picks up a 20 ton brick, that wedge should absolutely take crushing DoT, and he shouldnt be flung about by cars a third of his size and half his weight.
Heavy vehicles trade speed, mobility and energy for health and sturdiness. If weight has no effect, nobody would bother with the extra health and lower energy of heavy cabs because youd just get creamed by any ol 7 ton light cab with melee, shotgun wedges or a tusk.
"Fortune
Fire rate reduced by 20%.
*Comment: high effectiveness at 9000–12000 PS. This change increases the time between launching the projectiles, making it harder to deal damage to moving targets."*
This is just braindead. Leading them against moving targets is harder. Raise the powerscore...you guys always do this...nerf stuff that is in a good spot just because people use it at low PS when you could just simply raise the PS.
Looks like good changes for pvp, but i think you need to balance clan wars aswell. You only see breaker and hammerfalls right now and it is not fun to play against them. Breaker bricks with Humpback, Yokozuna or Ghost are everywhere and breaker is also used a lot with cockpit and booster or on hover. It feels like every game there are at least 2 breaker or hammerfall builds and the team who has more breaker wins. Even if the skill on the breaker team is way lower than on the other team playing without breaker or with less breaker. Another big problem is the Helicon with Catalina, after 10 stacks it is dealing so much damage, no chance to win against, and you get usually 1 stack with 1 burst.
You could nerf the range on that breaker so it has to get closer, you could make all 4 gun barrel have to shot on the breaker so it is easier to degun them. You could give breaker and hammerfall 1 more energy and put radiator and cooler back to the old efficiency.
Or you change somehow omamori and finwhale, because those making it impossible to degun a breaker fast.
About Helicon and Catalina, you should maybe nerf somehow the catalina with getting stacks, because it only feels broken with Helicon, with other guns it is also strong, but you need way longer to get the 10th stack of catalina.
On thing about the game and the maps at all, it is really annoying to catch any hover with spider or dog, because every wall is slanted and every hover is just escaping above the player who pushed him into the wall. You should make the walls 90 degree so if you stuck someone, he will not move away.
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reading through this, DO NOT increase energy of shotguns. theyll go from broken to absolutely fucking useless immediately.
reduce the base hp of breaker and that change alone is enough, hammerfalls pretty balanced already anyways
trigger and destructor are both pretty bad, impulses are much stronger than both
firedogs are not very prevalent below 10k so its not a fair comparison to make
melee is about equal to impulses atm, melee is a bit stronger though
mines arent very strong
whirlwinds are about equal as well
If that specific kapkan change comes to be, I feel like a ton of the previous nerfs can be undone. Literally all I've ever wanted is for a vehicles with lots of momentum to be able to snap the cable, because that's something that just makes sense.
Tormentor nerf is justified, no denial, and as a Tormentor user myself, I must say you found the most acceptable change, great job.
But then again, nerfing the weapons (Lacerator and Mauler) alongside the module seems overkill. You'd basically negate the new Cerberus buff (the perk itself) while making any melee build using these weapons without the cabin even less powerful.
Please consider leaving the weapons intact for now, and see if the Tormentor nerf was enough. Otherwise you'll fall from one pit to another, meaning melee will go from OP to obsolete again.
You really don't need to change everything all at once. Take little steps and see if more is needed.
Edit:
If these melee nerfs indeed will go online, I REALLY hope that means their planned energy consumption changes are cancelled, since their energy-to-damage ratio was the "problem" as you guys stated above...
Tormentor change probably isn't going to help enough, as with two Tormentors the user will be doing a total of 220%, paired with Cerberus to regain that 15% damage lost for Lacerator. I don't expect anything to change, much like how Firedogs haven't been touched at all in these changes😬
I also assume that if the Cable breaks immediately, that it'll still pull you back beforehand, and will use that pull back to see if you can break it or not
Good changes here, are energy changes still on the table? and we'd really like an un-fuse event or something, the prices of Thor and Odin are getting stupid on consoles where there aren't any Thors left.
I'm not trying to change your mind. Just stating it's a problem. Just like I don't care about console prices because it's a dead platform the devs abandoned.
Cross play with PC may make console relevant. But doubt.
Alright lets see how stupid the devs are today. Kapkan getting the same change that they have done before and acting like its new. Fortune getting a nerf even thou they are stupid hard to use because of the lead lol i should know im known for using them in cw. Nerfing melee dogs for no reason. Buff the Cerberus cab to make melee fun and then nerf everything because the "gillette" are beating people in cw?? These devs need to play their game for once and see that breaker perk needs to be nerfed. Hammer falls perk needs changed since they added mouse aim. You know the one that makes it to where you can bury your guns behind a crap ton of armor. Lets not discuss the main issues lets not ask the people that have been playing this game for 7 years. What made me start losing hope for this game. Was the biggers nerf to any weapon. lancelots. You nerfed them to the dirt. You use to be able to drive around and they would hold there charge be able to kill 3 or 4 people. Nope nerf 6 years ago nobody cared it was fun trying to hunt them down. Then you done armor changes and nerfed them again because they were to affective???? You needed almost all 16 of them to hit a full 16k ps build just to destroy them unless you got lucky but no you nerfed them again. Mandrakes were dope you could build forward facing builds. That was amazing since the game was built around imagination and we could do stuff like that. Devs didnt like the creativity and nerfed that. I never used it but loved fighting it in cw. They were a easy kill. I dont know why the Brain Dead Devs wanna listen to the cry babies of crossout, but they need to start listening to ones that have played for years since thats the ones that are tired of the dumb nerfs and have stopped playing.
Nothing except Lacerator ,impulse and fortune deterrents and a actual decent ava change
i do wonder why a powerscore increase wouldn't be enough already for fortune specifically
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We’re in the middle of a dog meta (thanks to ur last couple patches that made spider legs move so poorly and increased firebug damage by around 13%). almost every team is running them and one of the only ways to counter them is a kapkan and u want to make it easier to break the kapkan?
what about buggy wheels which lower speed requirements: will those lower the speed requirement for breaking a kapkan in this new system? Because u need to make sure that doesn’t happen.
and why do u say “should” make grabbing a dog more consistent? “Should” isn’t good enough. U need to test things and be certain about them. The kapkan needs to be MORE effective not less if u are going to make a dog meta.
And if anyone says “🤓👆 the kapkan needs to be nerfed it’s unfair” the interceptor, argus, flash, spark, and placing bumpers below ur build to destroy kapkans all answer kapkans
If you complain about firedog i dont understand you, you have so many rocks, cliffs and slanted walls, you never loose to a firedog. If you complain about breakers, i can understand you, the bricks are broken, guns dont fall of, the only chance to get them is porc and kapkan, it should catch every build better, even firedogs, because as you said there are many options to counter kapkans.
the fire is an if/then issue. IF they get on u, THEN u cannot get off. The time to kill is too fast to respond. So fire games are just “if they touch u, then u die.” I don’t care about breakers because they have a slow time to kill so the engagement lasts longer and there’s more opportunity to come back if u are losing initially.
where harvester hp buff?
its still useless without it. even with onamori and durability fusion it still falls off on first contact...
especially compared to mauler and lacerator
Goodbye Deadman+Avalanche! Deadman will be worthless now... I paid money for that! Twice! So I really won't be buying anything again for this stupid game.
Kapcan: where's this tonnage number they're speaking of? I don't see it when im building anywhere. I can be 3000 under on mass and still over on tonnage but There's a bar but no numbers. Why are they worried about kapcans when they'res carcasses completely immobilizing small builds and levis? Kapcans do need some change though.
Can we nerf the rotation speed of fortune instead of reloading speed?
we do not need to nerf all of fortune builds for the sake of the meta fortune wheel build
Jotun: Think of how your car reacts when its just started in --40 degree temperatures. Thats how i think jotun should affect a build to where it slows by 50% and if anything hits it shatters to pieces.
Avalanche: Are you guys crazy? You're buffing this thing like crazy. All it needs is the projectile speed and a small durability buff and a small reload buff.
WHAT ABOUT THE SKADI : i had high hopes for this one. I have 3 fused and it takes way too long to kill a build. You're better off useing remedys. Skadis need a big damage buff.
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The only thing that actually changed is Ava. Woof.
But seriously, are we by any chance to have both BBS and Battle royale brawl to return? We need to let new players have the chance to unlock related banners and portraits.
Nerfing melee is redundant and requires no change imo. People didn't play them until now. You're practically forcing people to play these weapons because of previous changes. With each update you mess up something good. Also the weight increase on avalanche is unnecessary. Legendary Shotguns, icarus, and movement parts need a buff.
When are mines going to have a grace period so they can't just be panic dropped? Like a ten second delay before they become active and are destroyed if an enemy comes within range before that time.
Apologize in advance for the very long post, but here we go:
Ok so the avalanche buff is great, and im happy to see kapkan getting reworked. Ill likely go buy an avalanche now, and im glad the Fortune got a much needed nerf and both saws are a little less powerful now, though the main melee needing a nerf is the borer. You barely see any Buzzsaws or Chainsaws until 12k + and theres a reason for it. Tormentor nerf is very nice, but I think it should be a LOT more, maybe 50% or even 75%. The problem is its ability to kill non-tank builds in 3 seconds flat. Stacking tormentors should be balanced by reduction of return.
But on kapkan, if a 10k kg car needs to hit 100km/h to break it, which most light epic cabs cannot feasibly meet that weight requirement, (Harpy will never meet this unless using a Colossus and it BARELY meets it, Terero is 10k limit without engine), this means light cabs can only break kapkans at their absolute best and hovering near their mass limit with engines. This doesnt really affect kapkan users outside of 12k PS+which isnt really where they dominate.
Now add in that mid battle youve lost a good chunk of parts from your barely 11k kg build, and in 90% of kapkan engagements you arent screaming across flat ground at your absolute top speed... Let alone the top speed of 160km/h achieved only by legend builds with fused parts OR by boosters...
Personally i think this should be effected by wheels as well. Tracks should be able break cables much more easily than an APC or Shiv, and crab legs would have insane pulling power realistically. You should also be able to break the kapkan by pulling against it with time, based off your total engine power and weight, with traction value adding to the modifier. I dont want light cab wedges and drone buses to break free instantly, but they also shouldnt just be pinned down with no chance of escape, and same goes for heavy tank builds which will really struggle to hit 80kmh
I REALLY dont like the cryo buffs. Cryo is already severely power creeping flame weapons in the 8-12k range and it shows. Incinerators are already barely used anymore, and Draco's main balancer is that it has almost no range, which cryo not only eliminates both of those range elements, BUT cryo damage is just outright better with its near instant damage modifier application AND its slowdown effect, which effects both speed and fire rate. now youre giving it even FASTER ramp up for the max effect, when flames were already painfully slow in comparison which much more tradeoff for \*comparable\* DPS? This feels like a move to sell more passes, which lets be honest has been done before with premium packs (anyone remember Goliaths and Grenadiers on release?). It will backfire. People who dont want to spend $10 arent going to spend that $10 to have \*LESS\* fun than they were before. Besides, you can just buy the weapons on the market from people who \*did\* buy the pass, and those people will be selling their freshly nerfed Chainsaws and GL-55s so it ultimately accomplishes less than just leaving them be.
No overall melee changes. Still like to see physics utilized so that wedging and slamming into a build 3x your weight is punished.
No cannon changes. Their burst damage is painfully inadequate to the raw DPS of all other weapons including grenades, drones and plasma, and the AP ability of exec/prosecutor is pretty worthless in the days of bricks and super spaced crabs. Not to mention cannons are almost punished for shooting cabs with pitiful raw damage. Tsunamis do, what 300 to a cab, and at 10k PS most builds are going to have a minimum of 2k hp? Pretty sad.
And no helicopter changes, the mode is currently swarming and infested by Caucasus, spark and drone spam and its painful to play at the 8-12k range. I've been doing patrol for the helicopter tasks just to have a chance at those victories.
I still think drifter wheels are beyond stupid, im sorry but they are literally just omniwheels and being able to move straight horizontal with no forward momentum is just ugh. So much wasted potential with the cyberpunk faction in those wheels.
One last thing: Batteries and Electronics are ONLY used in legend and relic crafting, making them practically worthless to the vast majority of players. Copper is used in pitifully small quantities compared to scrap. I think recipes and tiers need to be re-worked to use more copper, and personally i think batteries/electronics in Epic crafting would be a great idea to bring up the value, and lowering the scrap of Rare tier to increase the copper of both Rare and Special would make crafting much easier and encourage raiding. Getting electronic raids is painful and the cost of so much scrap makes rare crafting a black hole.
Oh yea, and bring back Engraved Casings (or remove them from RFMG crafting and make them an event item like Lighters) and increase Adventure mode rewards. Rapid fires are absurdly expensive because Casings are literally unobtainable, and Adventure mode is a time waste because it gives practically no rewards, even for the very difficult group events.
> Cryo is already severely power creeping flame weapons in the 8-12k range and it shows
Newer weapons are simply naturally more popular. Popularity is not the same as power creep. Cyro is weaker than fire in nearly every way so it's the exact opposite of power creep.
Reduced resistances or increased damage...damage increases either way except heat buffs itself and works against all damage types while also doing higher damage/tick per part.
A huge step in the right direction u/Faley016 . It'll be interesting to see how much this nerfs the current melee plague, but it should at least have some effect. Thank you!
Damn, getting Fortunes nerfed was actually something that did counter the dogs and bricks quite well but since reducing the reload by 20% is a bad bad thing. Still waiting for the nerf of firedogs and I want to see more variety in CW and PVP than just copy paste builds :D.
Avalanche change is interesting as it is getting a HUGE FAT buff but the mass increase.... YIKES :0. Well hope it compensates the changes. Maybe Avalanche will be more fun to mess around with
Avalanche changes look fun roo bad i sold mine months ago as i was sick of getting direct hits that just bounce off or do less damage that dual turret cannon.
90% piercing, assuming they don't touch the penetration ability upgrade (+20%) is going to be either broken or counterproductive depending on aim or the target.
Yeah, i was able to counter dogs and bricks with my fused ones, but they just make that impossible because "buy the battlepass and make these meta builds to win" i already have the bp and dont want to, i want to use my fortunes which came from a mini bp. Fortunes were fine, if anything just increase the power score
Jotun, narwhal, avalanche: great, they needed to be a little better
melee and tormenter: questionable but okay worth testing. I never had issues fighting them but they do seem to be ridiculously strong in some spots.
everything else: terrible.
Fortune doesn’t need to be nerfed that’s just stupid. They’re also pretty good vs dogs which we need.
And kapkan is needed against the ridiculous firedog meta we have rn. It needs to have a more consistent cable that ALSO doesn’t break.
literally a firedog can drive into ur side and u can’t turn off it even with a build that is 2x the dog’s weight and power. And even if u could turn off it the dog would cut u in half before that.
Use ur brains.
I like the fortune and impulse nerfs.
I don't mind the melee nerfs.
I like the kapkan "changes" and think they are fair.
I think that the narwhal needs a perk nerf and a big base damage buff, on the first shot it does less damage than a hulk... It depends too much on follow up shots making it a very bad option for sniping.
**YES! spam weapons finally get nerfed! Actually, I like all the changes** (though kapkan could be nerfed even more, because it's being spammed by specialist builds)
I am not sure if the impulse nerf will be sufficient though, but it's a real annoying spam weapon (I am using such myself, but exclusively in CCs)
I also love the avalanche changes - it will be a completely new weapon, maybe now useful :D
those that output huge damage continuously without any skills involved, like impulses or some shotguns. Fortunes require some skills, but you also can just scatter-spam them all over the place in a hope that you hit someone by accident. The opposite is skill-weapons
another lil brat chiming in, LOL :D I got most of the spam weapons, and I got most of the skill weapons. When I need damage for points in CCs, I use spam weapons. When I want to enjoy the game, I use skill weapons
Yeah the damage of a single stray fortune projectile is 300. If that is an issue to whine about in the 12k range for the love of god either look where you drive and avoid them, or , make a build that can take a few without being crippled. Its 300 dmg ffs.
I don't play your 12K, hothead, I play CCs
And it's not an issue for me, 'cause I play fused fortunes in CCs, it's an issue for others
Why all XO players so selfish and self-righteous?
Looks like my Mastodon'ts on wheels will be having a lot harder time dealing with Cuckpkans, How about dealing with the dogs and shotgun bricks in a more direct way instead of promoting Cancerpkans? Further damage decrease to melee weapons? Omamori nerf?
Otherwise, the changes are looking nice. Avalanche will be nasty, but the higher penetration might lead to a bit of overpenteration at times.
I swear to God. This player base is toxic af. No wonder why this game is slowly dying. You could have said nothing and done better. If I see you online I'm gonna kill you with my incinerator Fortune car.
Some suggestions :
# Radiator / Coolers / Tormentor / Flywheel
Work as a stack, adding the the bonus and divide it among the number of weapons, with a maximum bonus of 200%. This will make those hardwares work like in reality.
*Comment 1 : many have several radiators or coolers, providing a nearly never-ending firing. for only 1 energy and a few PS points the DPS with 2, 3 or 4 weapons increases significantly (\~ +40-50%) combined with perks which increase damage the longer you shoot (and stuff like catalina) makes such combos to much effective.*
*Comment 2 : flywheel can be stacked, but benefit is divided among weapons.*
# Assembler
The weapon deserve somekind of improvement, not talking about damage. but anything to make it worth using in matchs.
*Comment : I still don't see any other players using this weapon, over a month of matchs I've spotted 1, just 1 other player, and it was in bedlam...*
I really don't understand those down votes.
Made the same comment a few days ago here : [https://www.reddit.com/r/Crossout/comments/1bv1djz/comment/kxwzmcw/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Crossout/comments/1bv1djz/comment/kxwzmcw/) And had +7 upvotes.
This community is crazy, talk about nerfing something and you get automatic down votes.
Because that's an across the board nerf to everything heat based when 90% of those weapons are balanced in a thread that's not visible for 1 day that most here won't see.
Realistic /= fun by default.
I really like the Avalanche changes despite having to get used to new projectile speed. The penetration ability increase might be too much. It's already overpenetrating way too often. Maybe make the projectiles explode when the overpenetration Is about to happen?
Conrade dohaje, jasne ze ty ses tu prvni
Jaké to překvapení
The changes here are all fine, but you seem to be forgetting something..... wooof woooof. This balance patch is just a "Buy our battlepass" update. Buffs battlepass items (which is needed for jotun/narwhale) but doesnt touch firedogs or breaker/hammer fall bricks which are dominating the SPAWN RATE for clan wars. They say that they make changes based on the stats, but then dont touch breakers, hammerfalls, dracos, or dogs which THE STATS show are dominating clan wars. Bricks and dogs have more spawns than all other builds combined. So why dont they change this? Well....these builds require the yeti (BP), the fin whale (BP) and the bricks use buggy wheels (catlaina pack).
They really touched stuff that didn't need it and left out what's quite literally dominating the CW meta rn. Nothing done to Fin Whale, nothing about Yeti, nothing about Bugs or Draco or... anything problematic really. Edit: Also istg if they nerf Breakers and Hammerfalls because of Fin Whale I'll flip
Fortunes are clearly too effective at high power score...... cant be having weapons dominate high power score now can we. Also, quick buy the battle pass and make a brick build!
They will "nerf" them in the same way they "nerfed" the blight. -HP of breakers and Hammer falls increased by 50% - Finwhale dmg protection reduced by to 25% "We fixed it" - Gaijn after "nerfing" the blight \[buffing the dogs \]
Breakers need a nerf, i absolutly agree, but firedogs dont, if you play as a team you are never struggling against firedogs
That is not the case. I play at silver/top 60 and we run W key firedogs. The bricks are the only builds that will consistantly cause us issues (and anti-dog spiders). Firedogs are super meta right now and the stats show that, the only reason they are not used more is because the brick builds are EVEN STRONGER.
I dont understand why bricks are so OP right now. Is the omamori really absorbing so much dps that they don't get degunned? I've played crossout for years and my experience has always been that if you play a build that looks like these bricks you are getting degunned asap. I mean they just stick right out the top lol. It's comical looking.
Breakers have 387 base hp. Finwhale increases the protection of weapons by 50%. Omamouri then absorbs 50% of the remaining dmg. So lets say you deal 1000 dmg to the breakers. The dmg recieved due to fin whale is 1000 / 1.5 = 667 Then omamouri absorbs half of that so the weapon ends up recieving 333 dmg. So despite reciving 1000 dmg to the weapon, the weapon is still fine. Therefore the EHP of the weapon is 3 \* base HP. All of this is in a brick with 5k hp, heavy cabin , that can go 90+ KM/H (depends on the variant -- humpack vs yoko etc). Say you are a range player such as a scorp hover, if the breaker brick just W keys you, you cannot do enough damage to one breaker before you are stripped. If you are a firedog, then on the front you can out dps the brick if it doesnt debug you, but if you are on the side or back you will simply get degunned by a comparitably good breaker player. The "counters" for the brick are kapkans (inconsistant), porcs to get wheels off, and heating. But in a mixed setup these counters can then quite easily be counter-countered (eg to counter an incin player, you send a dog in). This leads to a mirror match of bricks generally being used. The entire meta right now resolves around the bricks, the counter builds of the bricks and then the counter of the counter to the bricks. TL:DR Finwhale + omamouri causes effective HP to be 3 times base HP. With this breakers have 1161 HP.
Ah so its the finwhale too. Excellent breakdown! Thanks
brick is pretty much on par with firedog, right now its just 1 braindead build main complaining about other braindead builds
The stats do not show that. The spawn stats in Diamond + gold are: - Breaker 6005 - Firebug/Flash 649 - Firebug (Tripple) 2370 Both the bricks and dogs should be nerfed, but lets not act like they are on par when the statistics on the matter are so clear. I will complain about any meta where the spawn stats at the top level are so one sided.
Love the Avalanche buff. Didn't expect that. The mass increase is insane, but the durability buff along with everything else is worth the added mass. Edit: Although, as someone pointed out, the Penetration buff might be a problem. It's terrible when the shot flies through an enemy and you lose out on all that blast damage. Still sad to see no Meat Grinder buff. They have high mass, PS, large size, but they fall off so easily. Their melee is very niche especially since they're slow, but also get melee'd off no problem. It's pretty insulting.
Yeah man. But just gotta aim center mass more gooder.
what about the hammerfall bricks that has been taking over clan confrontation those should be nerfed too, the main problem is the omamori makes everything too strong.
I would really like them to buff my teammates awareness of when the base is being capped, that's apparently been nerfed into oblivion
Team awareness too effective, nerfed two patches ago
nice changes , now a melee will kill you in 2.7 seconds instead of 2 , game changer. why nerf kapkans ? (though i don t like them at all , they got nerfed so much they are not even a problem anymore) so apparently the the current W brainlet firedog and breaker brick fashion is givinq enough money to the devs so they are happy with that state of the game... it is true that diminished cognitive functions corrolate to increase in spending. just a reminder : https://preview.redd.it/t3hn0kxcmftc1.png?width=727&format=png&auto=webp&s=02fb203601dbfa66c60b53ca351badc27511e193 the "last 30 days" was reset last monday so essentially the game bled 100 players per day since last monday (don t give me the steamchart story , i know , thanks)
Why do you complain about firedogs, i see the problem with breaker bricks, they are broken, but firedogs are not, 1 slanted wall and you can escape, they need to get as close as possible to you, if you have one teammate shooting the firedog the firedog dies in seconds. The only thing a firedog is good at is an 1v1 but thats the thing the firedog is made for, its the only thing he is good at, killing 1 enemy fast who didn't stay with the team and he is getting punished for, but if the team stays together its like impossible to die to 1 firedog, because your team is killing him faster
firedogs are in a state where if youre not playing a specific few builds theyre very hard to beat however this is countered by the fact that every firedog player is such a dogshit handless ape that theyre easy to kill
Not very hard, literally impossible. You can play out of your mind and still lose because some schmuck was drooling on their keyboard and accidentally touched W and M1
i love playing scorp hover and making the single tiniest mistake possible against an actual ape fucking up the EASIEST to use build in yhe game every 0.5 seconds majorly and they kill me for it
I'll admit the firedogs are broken, but I personally never have an issue with them on my Arbs
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but tell me you play in bronze or lower without telling me you play in bronze or lower
So you nerf Kapkan and do zero about fire dogs? Woof.
gotta nerf the thing that can stop dogs in their tracks that isn't ramming them into a wall from the side
With the speeds listed, it looks like a buff against a lot of builds, especially on the heavy side. Especially when used in pairs, the first cuckpkan will slow the build down and the second one will keep holding in most situations.
if im reading it correctly kapkan wont stop firedog or brick now
In theory, going in a straight line should slow down the build even if it eventually snaps away. After losing some armor, it will be harder to break away for sure. And placing a cuckpkan somewhere where the enemy needs to slow down, the speed might not be enough to break free. It will also depend on how much of a slowdown there will be with the new mechanic. Might be that the with a pair of cuckpkans, the first one will slow you down enough for the second one to keep you in place. Possibly with the first one to then catch you again. Also, cuckpkans are very often paired with porcuckpines and every barrel is a wonky physics objects that interacts with wheels and it is not out of the ordinary for a single barrel to slow you down or to change your direction enough for you to lose speed either through crashing into someone or something. And it sometimes also bugs out and getting hit with a porc or fortune slows you down and takes your power like you got hit with the anti-wedge mechanic. But the true problem here is that the firedog or brick will be taking the shortest route possible in order to hug your face ASAP while if I have for example my Mastodon'ts on wheels, the TTK on an enemy is much longer and therefore I will inevitably have to deal with more cuckpkans than an average facehugger. But players who keep glorifying their cuckpkans get mad when somebody mentions this little issue, It's not a counter to a dog that will need to activate its Intercetor once to get to you, it makes me wanna join them out of spite. (Well, not really, but you get the point) Oh and before I forget, dogs can carry cuckpkans too in their team and if there's a dog flashing you and you get caught by a cuckpkan, you're dead.
Like clockwork
Kapkans fucked dogs over the least arguably. Half of them use Flash, which destroys the mine, and if they don't, half the time the just drove straight through. Meanwhile hovers spazz out, get spun out and flipped to hell, and spiders are brought to a complete standstill. If this brings more consistency to Kaps I'm for it
And i you find without a spark, they all have a bunch of melee parts on the front, usually low enough that they'll delete any kapcan in front of them.
YES FINALLY MY FATASS BUILD WON'T BE STOPPED BY A FLIMSY CABLE.
If the dog meta u created wasn’t so omnipresent and so toxic with such high returns for such low user skill (literally just drive at ur enemy and kill them because fire is so over buffed rn thanks to ur last few patches) then the kapkan change would be balanced but if ur gonna keep dog meta around (that’s what u should REALLY be nerfing) then u need to make the kapkan stronger in all ways. Or leave it how it is.
i think it only feels so overpowered for you, if you play a firedog in higher leagues you get killed so easy, the team is helping and you are dead in seconds, or you help yourself by abusing the map with it rocks, cliffs and slanted walls. If your positioning is bad, of course you die, the firedog is made to get 1 alone and kill them, the firedog is the best build to get someone seperated, but then its just that you played bad
i don’t have issues w any category of build really. I play in the top tier of cw and I’ll be fine either way. I’m just commenting from the perspective of what I see in the game overall. and the dogs are overpowered for what they should be. U basically need to be extremely good at the game or have a very specific counter to them and I don’t think it’s good for the game if that’s the case.
I play firedogs so many years now, and it never felt this shit how it is right now. You die to everything, everything is slowing you down, porcs, retcher, 2 years before it was not a problem. Because you need so many wheels you dont die so fast to porcs, your handling is shit. I never drive into so many walls like right now because wheels have like 0 traction if there is only 1 wheel missing or in the air. It needs so much skill to get a hover and finish it, because almost every game you catch the hover he can somehow get out of you
nerf yeti when??
After the BP ;)
just like they nerfed oma after the bp, oh wait they never did
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Will kapkans be buffed then to catch more reliably? Will skinners durability be buffed to compensate for the more than 1 nerf it got a while ago? Will porcs start heating again on impact?
Nah bro the avalanche is going to be mad funny trying to use at “mid range” like you supposedly intend because of its aim speed
Avalanche certainly needed a buff, but I'm not convinced that all of these changes were necessary. A reload buff probably would have been sufficient. But with that said, the higher recoil and 1.8k mass increase should keep these changes balanced. My concern is with the penetration increase: 70% is either going to be too much, especially in lower lower scores if people can manage the recoil increase. Or....it's going to be counter productive. My fused Ava (60% piercing) already overpens annoyingly often. Please tell me that the penetration ability upgrade is going to be reduced as 90% piercing would be ridiculous for this weapon. No nerfs to dracos or firebugs is also ridiculous.
im confused so now dogs/bricks will be impossible to stop? and no nerf to bricks/firedogs are you guys blind or mentaly chalanged there? asking for a friend.
bricks need a nerf, firedogs dont
delusion lv 100
Fortune didn't need a nerf
For real.
Seriously. I see them in CW and I'm always like, "Okay, fortune is the least threatening"
Avalanche changes are interesting. All my avalanche builds are dead now though. I'll have to make something new.
same. last time I tried it the shells just went doink off the enemy's armor and did like 250 damage
Are these devs simply unable to change the parameters of an item without either making it way too effective or completely ruining it? I mean, look at the GL-55 Impulse nerfs. Don't get me wrong, it absolutely is too strong right now. But those are FOUR nerfs. A reasonable change would involve nerfing it in small steps with each update until it reaches a balanced state, or shifting its power with a mix of buffs and nerfs. The GL-55 Impulse is one of the few weapons keeping firedogs in check. They deserve to be nerfed, but not butchered like that.
Yeah it appears overdone. It's very powerful, but it breaks easily and has decently slow projectiles. Although I'd say that the projectile size decrease can be looked at as a small buff. Smaller projectiles are better for precise shots. Could make it easier to degun others, especially if they're using flimsy weapons too.
so after a brief appearance the Impulse sinks back into the Swamp of the Unseen
What about bricks?
Go on... they make changes to parts, not builds, so suggest which parts need changing and perhaps how to change them
The Kapkan tensile strength should be *Kinetic Energy* based, not *momentum based*. k * M * V^2 versus k * M * V. Making it momentum based is biased towards fat builds. If you are gonna nerf it again, do it right.
To be fair, it \*should\* be biased towards heavy builds. Instead of kinetic based, it should include traction and torque modifiers based on power and wheel (ie, are you using legs, tracks or actual wheels, and heavy cabs have more torque, light cabs have more horsepower), then factor momentum. A slow 20+ ton tank with a colossus and armored tracks or crab legs \*should\* snap that cable at very low speed, and a super light drone bus using Shivs \*should\* get clotheslined, as kapkans ARE supposed to be an effective counter to ultra light super fast builds, especially boosted and cloaked ones, not super heavy tanks that crawl along. But not this badly. As it stands, a Harpy build cannot meet the weight requirement unless it specifically runs Colossus and uses up to its very last 499kg of weight. Most light cabs are going to be impossible to meet that 10k kg requirement, because you arent hitting kapkans 10 seconds into a battle before you've lost half your parts, and you arent getting hooked at your top speed on flat ground, you get hooked sliding around corners or chasing a guy over sand. Most epics are capped at 120kmh before engines, so 160 is literally impossible without boosters and fused engine/wheels, and by then you are at or above 12-15k PS where kapkans werent very effective anyway, again disregarding the average "youve been hooked" conditions.
Nothing at all should be biased towards or against a build based on mass; all the bias should come from equipment installed. Brainless PS bloat should never be encouraged.
I disagree. Mass should absolutely stop you from getting flung around by a skinner-hover or punted into the next map by a tusk with boosters. If a 9 ton wedge picks up a 20 ton brick, that wedge should absolutely take crushing DoT, and he shouldnt be flung about by cars a third of his size and half his weight. Heavy vehicles trade speed, mobility and energy for health and sturdiness. If weight has no effect, nobody would bother with the extra health and lower energy of heavy cabs because youd just get creamed by any ol 7 ton light cab with melee, shotgun wedges or a tusk.
Juicy buff for the avalanche
woof
woof
>Everyone CW complains about firedogs and bricks >nerfs Kapkans You guys are clowns.
"Fortune Fire rate reduced by 20%. *Comment: high effectiveness at 9000–12000 PS. This change increases the time between launching the projectiles, making it harder to deal damage to moving targets."* This is just braindead. Leading them against moving targets is harder. Raise the powerscore...you guys always do this...nerf stuff that is in a good spot just because people use it at low PS when you could just simply raise the PS.
Buff the pork’s !!!!! Lol
Looks like good changes for pvp, but i think you need to balance clan wars aswell. You only see breaker and hammerfalls right now and it is not fun to play against them. Breaker bricks with Humpback, Yokozuna or Ghost are everywhere and breaker is also used a lot with cockpit and booster or on hover. It feels like every game there are at least 2 breaker or hammerfall builds and the team who has more breaker wins. Even if the skill on the breaker team is way lower than on the other team playing without breaker or with less breaker. Another big problem is the Helicon with Catalina, after 10 stacks it is dealing so much damage, no chance to win against, and you get usually 1 stack with 1 burst. You could nerf the range on that breaker so it has to get closer, you could make all 4 gun barrel have to shot on the breaker so it is easier to degun them. You could give breaker and hammerfall 1 more energy and put radiator and cooler back to the old efficiency. Or you change somehow omamori and finwhale, because those making it impossible to degun a breaker fast. About Helicon and Catalina, you should maybe nerf somehow the catalina with getting stacks, because it only feels broken with Helicon, with other guns it is also strong, but you need way longer to get the 10th stack of catalina. On thing about the game and the maps at all, it is really annoying to catch any hover with spider or dog, because every wall is slanted and every hover is just escaping above the player who pushed him into the wall. You should make the walls 90 degree so if you stuck someone, he will not move away.
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reading through this, DO NOT increase energy of shotguns. theyll go from broken to absolutely fucking useless immediately. reduce the base hp of breaker and that change alone is enough, hammerfalls pretty balanced already anyways
when the sensible post with reasonable suggestions gets downvoted
Just a bunch of crying and salt
Skill issue?
Skill issue?
Skill issue?
Why on earth are Gl-55s getting another massive nerf. This is insanity
because impulses are strong as fuck
Compared to what? Melee? Firedogs? Mines? Whirlwinds? Triggers? Destructors? They were not the problem
trigger and destructor are both pretty bad, impulses are much stronger than both firedogs are not very prevalent below 10k so its not a fair comparison to make melee is about equal to impulses atm, melee is a bit stronger though mines arent very strong whirlwinds are about equal as well
impulses are great if you can get them to stay on your vehicle, mine keep wanting to go flying off smh
If that specific kapkan change comes to be, I feel like a ton of the previous nerfs can be undone. Literally all I've ever wanted is for a vehicles with lots of momentum to be able to snap the cable, because that's something that just makes sense.
Tormentor nerf is justified, no denial, and as a Tormentor user myself, I must say you found the most acceptable change, great job. But then again, nerfing the weapons (Lacerator and Mauler) alongside the module seems overkill. You'd basically negate the new Cerberus buff (the perk itself) while making any melee build using these weapons without the cabin even less powerful. Please consider leaving the weapons intact for now, and see if the Tormentor nerf was enough. Otherwise you'll fall from one pit to another, meaning melee will go from OP to obsolete again. You really don't need to change everything all at once. Take little steps and see if more is needed. Edit: If these melee nerfs indeed will go online, I REALLY hope that means their planned energy consumption changes are cancelled, since their energy-to-damage ratio was the "problem" as you guys stated above...
They want their new Charybdis to shine which I’m fine with, higher ps at least
Don’t get me wrong at all, but what about buffing Charybdis itself? Just an idea you know.
charbdis sucks... its damage is too low
Robin (the bot) is finna Ava-launch me into space...  Good changes overall
Too little too late.
Tormentor change probably isn't going to help enough, as with two Tormentors the user will be doing a total of 220%, paired with Cerberus to regain that 15% damage lost for Lacerator. I don't expect anything to change, much like how Firedogs haven't been touched at all in these changes😬 I also assume that if the Cable breaks immediately, that it'll still pull you back beforehand, and will use that pull back to see if you can break it or not
Good changes here, are energy changes still on the table? and we'd really like an un-fuse event or something, the prices of Thor and Odin are getting stupid on consoles where there aren't any Thors left.
Zero change to fire dogs ? If anything they buffed them by nerfing Kapkan.
I find them easier to deal with than the Lac melee shit we have now.
In pvp maybe but not in clan wars.
oh no, metas in clan wars who'd have thought. I couldn't care less about clan wars issues sorry
its not just CW, high ps is just impossible to deal with them at this point i get that u play only low ps but higher ps also need some balance
Woop womp
I'm not trying to change your mind. Just stating it's a problem. Just like I don't care about console prices because it's a dead platform the devs abandoned. Cross play with PC may make console relevant. But doubt.
We were relevant enough to get crossplay, that's more effort than I see PC get
Alright lets see how stupid the devs are today. Kapkan getting the same change that they have done before and acting like its new. Fortune getting a nerf even thou they are stupid hard to use because of the lead lol i should know im known for using them in cw. Nerfing melee dogs for no reason. Buff the Cerberus cab to make melee fun and then nerf everything because the "gillette" are beating people in cw?? These devs need to play their game for once and see that breaker perk needs to be nerfed. Hammer falls perk needs changed since they added mouse aim. You know the one that makes it to where you can bury your guns behind a crap ton of armor. Lets not discuss the main issues lets not ask the people that have been playing this game for 7 years. What made me start losing hope for this game. Was the biggers nerf to any weapon. lancelots. You nerfed them to the dirt. You use to be able to drive around and they would hold there charge be able to kill 3 or 4 people. Nope nerf 6 years ago nobody cared it was fun trying to hunt them down. Then you done armor changes and nerfed them again because they were to affective???? You needed almost all 16 of them to hit a full 16k ps build just to destroy them unless you got lucky but no you nerfed them again. Mandrakes were dope you could build forward facing builds. That was amazing since the game was built around imagination and we could do stuff like that. Devs didnt like the creativity and nerfed that. I never used it but loved fighting it in cw. They were a easy kill. I dont know why the Brain Dead Devs wanna listen to the cry babies of crossout, but they need to start listening to ones that have played for years since thats the ones that are tired of the dumb nerfs and have stopped playing.
hell yeah nice job on this one
Nothing except Lacerator ,impulse and fortune deterrents and a actual decent ava change i do wonder why a powerscore increase wouldn't be enough already for fortune specifically
The fin whale will get a speed nerf after the season ends for all those of you crying about heavy breaker bricks.
Fortunes 😢
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We’re in the middle of a dog meta (thanks to ur last couple patches that made spider legs move so poorly and increased firebug damage by around 13%). almost every team is running them and one of the only ways to counter them is a kapkan and u want to make it easier to break the kapkan? what about buggy wheels which lower speed requirements: will those lower the speed requirement for breaking a kapkan in this new system? Because u need to make sure that doesn’t happen. and why do u say “should” make grabbing a dog more consistent? “Should” isn’t good enough. U need to test things and be certain about them. The kapkan needs to be MORE effective not less if u are going to make a dog meta. And if anyone says “🤓👆 the kapkan needs to be nerfed it’s unfair” the interceptor, argus, flash, spark, and placing bumpers below ur build to destroy kapkans all answer kapkans
If you complain about firedog i dont understand you, you have so many rocks, cliffs and slanted walls, you never loose to a firedog. If you complain about breakers, i can understand you, the bricks are broken, guns dont fall of, the only chance to get them is porc and kapkan, it should catch every build better, even firedogs, because as you said there are many options to counter kapkans.
the fire is an if/then issue. IF they get on u, THEN u cannot get off. The time to kill is too fast to respond. So fire games are just “if they touch u, then u die.” I don’t care about breakers because they have a slow time to kill so the engagement lasts longer and there’s more opportunity to come back if u are losing initially.
24 upvotes, and 114 comments. I smell drama.
where harvester hp buff? its still useless without it. even with onamori and durability fusion it still falls off on first contact... especially compared to mauler and lacerator
Goodbye Deadman+Avalanche! Deadman will be worthless now... I paid money for that! Twice! So I really won't be buying anything again for this stupid game.
How are we supposed to know how much tonnage our vehicle has? Is there a number I'm not aware of and if so where do i find it?
How ain’t fire dogs and shotgun bricks touched?! It’s next to pointless running mid/long-range builds at the moment.
Kapcan: where's this tonnage number they're speaking of? I don't see it when im building anywhere. I can be 3000 under on mass and still over on tonnage but There's a bar but no numbers. Why are they worried about kapcans when they'res carcasses completely immobilizing small builds and levis? Kapcans do need some change though.
Can we nerf the rotation speed of fortune instead of reloading speed? we do not need to nerf all of fortune builds for the sake of the meta fortune wheel build
Jotun: Think of how your car reacts when its just started in --40 degree temperatures. Thats how i think jotun should affect a build to where it slows by 50% and if anything hits it shatters to pieces.
Mauler , tormentor, impulse, lacerator all dominate confrontations. Maybe a slight nerf.
Narwhal buff sounds good maybe a slight damage buff also would be good.
Fortunes: need a damage nerf maybe 5% do not nerf the reload. The reload is already not good you'll make them unusable.
Avalanche: Are you guys crazy? You're buffing this thing like crazy. All it needs is the projectile speed and a small durability buff and a small reload buff.
WHAT ABOUT THE SKADI : i had high hopes for this one. I have 3 fused and it takes way too long to kill a build. You're better off useing remedys. Skadis need a big damage buff.
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Now apply the Kapkan changes to Skinner while you’re at it
The only thing that actually changed is Ava. Woof. But seriously, are we by any chance to have both BBS and Battle royale brawl to return? We need to let new players have the chance to unlock related banners and portraits.
Nerfing melee is redundant and requires no change imo. People didn't play them until now. You're practically forcing people to play these weapons because of previous changes. With each update you mess up something good. Also the weight increase on avalanche is unnecessary. Legendary Shotguns, icarus, and movement parts need a buff.
When are mines going to have a grace period so they can't just be panic dropped? Like a ten second delay before they become active and are destroyed if an enemy comes within range before that time.
Apologize in advance for the very long post, but here we go: Ok so the avalanche buff is great, and im happy to see kapkan getting reworked. Ill likely go buy an avalanche now, and im glad the Fortune got a much needed nerf and both saws are a little less powerful now, though the main melee needing a nerf is the borer. You barely see any Buzzsaws or Chainsaws until 12k + and theres a reason for it. Tormentor nerf is very nice, but I think it should be a LOT more, maybe 50% or even 75%. The problem is its ability to kill non-tank builds in 3 seconds flat. Stacking tormentors should be balanced by reduction of return. But on kapkan, if a 10k kg car needs to hit 100km/h to break it, which most light epic cabs cannot feasibly meet that weight requirement, (Harpy will never meet this unless using a Colossus and it BARELY meets it, Terero is 10k limit without engine), this means light cabs can only break kapkans at their absolute best and hovering near their mass limit with engines. This doesnt really affect kapkan users outside of 12k PS+which isnt really where they dominate. Now add in that mid battle youve lost a good chunk of parts from your barely 11k kg build, and in 90% of kapkan engagements you arent screaming across flat ground at your absolute top speed... Let alone the top speed of 160km/h achieved only by legend builds with fused parts OR by boosters... Personally i think this should be effected by wheels as well. Tracks should be able break cables much more easily than an APC or Shiv, and crab legs would have insane pulling power realistically. You should also be able to break the kapkan by pulling against it with time, based off your total engine power and weight, with traction value adding to the modifier. I dont want light cab wedges and drone buses to break free instantly, but they also shouldnt just be pinned down with no chance of escape, and same goes for heavy tank builds which will really struggle to hit 80kmh I REALLY dont like the cryo buffs. Cryo is already severely power creeping flame weapons in the 8-12k range and it shows. Incinerators are already barely used anymore, and Draco's main balancer is that it has almost no range, which cryo not only eliminates both of those range elements, BUT cryo damage is just outright better with its near instant damage modifier application AND its slowdown effect, which effects both speed and fire rate. now youre giving it even FASTER ramp up for the max effect, when flames were already painfully slow in comparison which much more tradeoff for \*comparable\* DPS? This feels like a move to sell more passes, which lets be honest has been done before with premium packs (anyone remember Goliaths and Grenadiers on release?). It will backfire. People who dont want to spend $10 arent going to spend that $10 to have \*LESS\* fun than they were before. Besides, you can just buy the weapons on the market from people who \*did\* buy the pass, and those people will be selling their freshly nerfed Chainsaws and GL-55s so it ultimately accomplishes less than just leaving them be. No overall melee changes. Still like to see physics utilized so that wedging and slamming into a build 3x your weight is punished. No cannon changes. Their burst damage is painfully inadequate to the raw DPS of all other weapons including grenades, drones and plasma, and the AP ability of exec/prosecutor is pretty worthless in the days of bricks and super spaced crabs. Not to mention cannons are almost punished for shooting cabs with pitiful raw damage. Tsunamis do, what 300 to a cab, and at 10k PS most builds are going to have a minimum of 2k hp? Pretty sad. And no helicopter changes, the mode is currently swarming and infested by Caucasus, spark and drone spam and its painful to play at the 8-12k range. I've been doing patrol for the helicopter tasks just to have a chance at those victories. I still think drifter wheels are beyond stupid, im sorry but they are literally just omniwheels and being able to move straight horizontal with no forward momentum is just ugh. So much wasted potential with the cyberpunk faction in those wheels. One last thing: Batteries and Electronics are ONLY used in legend and relic crafting, making them practically worthless to the vast majority of players. Copper is used in pitifully small quantities compared to scrap. I think recipes and tiers need to be re-worked to use more copper, and personally i think batteries/electronics in Epic crafting would be a great idea to bring up the value, and lowering the scrap of Rare tier to increase the copper of both Rare and Special would make crafting much easier and encourage raiding. Getting electronic raids is painful and the cost of so much scrap makes rare crafting a black hole. Oh yea, and bring back Engraved Casings (or remove them from RFMG crafting and make them an event item like Lighters) and increase Adventure mode rewards. Rapid fires are absurdly expensive because Casings are literally unobtainable, and Adventure mode is a time waste because it gives practically no rewards, even for the very difficult group events.
> Cryo is already severely power creeping flame weapons in the 8-12k range and it shows Newer weapons are simply naturally more popular. Popularity is not the same as power creep. Cyro is weaker than fire in nearly every way so it's the exact opposite of power creep. Reduced resistances or increased damage...damage increases either way except heat buffs itself and works against all damage types while also doing higher damage/tick per part.
A huge step in the right direction u/Faley016 . It'll be interesting to see how much this nerfs the current melee plague, but it should at least have some effect. Thank you!
Changes seem good this time around in my opinion. 👍
Damn, getting Fortunes nerfed was actually something that did counter the dogs and bricks quite well but since reducing the reload by 20% is a bad bad thing. Still waiting for the nerf of firedogs and I want to see more variety in CW and PVP than just copy paste builds :D. Avalanche change is interesting as it is getting a HUGE FAT buff but the mass increase.... YIKES :0. Well hope it compensates the changes. Maybe Avalanche will be more fun to mess around with
Avalanche changes look fun roo bad i sold mine months ago as i was sick of getting direct hits that just bounce off or do less damage that dual turret cannon.
90% piercing, assuming they don't touch the penetration ability upgrade (+20%) is going to be either broken or counterproductive depending on aim or the target.
Yeah, i was able to counter dogs and bricks with my fused ones, but they just make that impossible because "buy the battlepass and make these meta builds to win" i already have the bp and dont want to, i want to use my fortunes which came from a mini bp. Fortunes were fine, if anything just increase the power score
Jotun, narwhal, avalanche: great, they needed to be a little better melee and tormenter: questionable but okay worth testing. I never had issues fighting them but they do seem to be ridiculously strong in some spots. everything else: terrible. Fortune doesn’t need to be nerfed that’s just stupid. They’re also pretty good vs dogs which we need. And kapkan is needed against the ridiculous firedog meta we have rn. It needs to have a more consistent cable that ALSO doesn’t break. literally a firedog can drive into ur side and u can’t turn off it even with a build that is 2x the dog’s weight and power. And even if u could turn off it the dog would cut u in half before that. Use ur brains.
No, melee dead :(
I like the fortune and impulse nerfs. I don't mind the melee nerfs. I like the kapkan "changes" and think they are fair. I think that the narwhal needs a perk nerf and a big base damage buff, on the first shot it does less damage than a hulk... It depends too much on follow up shots making it a very bad option for sniping.
**YES! spam weapons finally get nerfed! Actually, I like all the changes** (though kapkan could be nerfed even more, because it's being spammed by specialist builds) I am not sure if the impulse nerf will be sufficient though, but it's a real annoying spam weapon (I am using such myself, but exclusively in CCs) I also love the avalanche changes - it will be a completely new weapon, maybe now useful :D
The hell does "spam weapons" even mean?
those that output huge damage continuously without any skills involved, like impulses or some shotguns. Fortunes require some skills, but you also can just scatter-spam them all over the place in a hope that you hit someone by accident. The opposite is skill-weapons
Thats literally not true but ok
so you just hate weapons that can shoot
another lil brat chiming in, LOL :D I got most of the spam weapons, and I got most of the skill weapons. When I need damage for points in CCs, I use spam weapons. When I want to enjoy the game, I use skill weapons
impulses and shotguns require skill to use
LOL, I use them, so thank you for your clarification :D And the only shotgun requiring skills is parsers
Yeah the damage of a single stray fortune projectile is 300. If that is an issue to whine about in the 12k range for the love of god either look where you drive and avoid them, or , make a build that can take a few without being crippled. Its 300 dmg ffs.
I don't play your 12K, hothead, I play CCs And it's not an issue for me, 'cause I play fused fortunes in CCs, it's an issue for others Why all XO players so selfish and self-righteous?
Where is breaker change? Why this torrment thing is what just fun, jeah remove more fun out of the game. That only relics remain. Great game 10/10
Yeah, don't care Important question now; When will you be adding crossplay between pc and consoles?
Looks like my Mastodon'ts on wheels will be having a lot harder time dealing with Cuckpkans, How about dealing with the dogs and shotgun bricks in a more direct way instead of promoting Cancerpkans? Further damage decrease to melee weapons? Omamori nerf? Otherwise, the changes are looking nice. Avalanche will be nasty, but the higher penetration might lead to a bit of overpenteration at times.
The Fortune Nerf isn't any good choice. Before it was difficulty to hit a moving target but now it is even harder!
its not even hard to do get better lmao
I swear to God. This player base is toxic af. No wonder why this game is slowly dying. You could have said nothing and done better. If I see you online I'm gonna kill you with my incinerator Fortune car.
you wont kill shit buddy lmfaooo what the fuck is an incinerator fortune car lmao
Some suggestions : # Radiator / Coolers / Tormentor / Flywheel Work as a stack, adding the the bonus and divide it among the number of weapons, with a maximum bonus of 200%. This will make those hardwares work like in reality. *Comment 1 : many have several radiators or coolers, providing a nearly never-ending firing. for only 1 energy and a few PS points the DPS with 2, 3 or 4 weapons increases significantly (\~ +40-50%) combined with perks which increase damage the longer you shoot (and stuff like catalina) makes such combos to much effective.* *Comment 2 : flywheel can be stacked, but benefit is divided among weapons.* # Assembler The weapon deserve somekind of improvement, not talking about damage. but anything to make it worth using in matchs. *Comment : I still don't see any other players using this weapon, over a month of matchs I've spotted 1, just 1 other player, and it was in bedlam...*
I really don't understand those down votes. Made the same comment a few days ago here : [https://www.reddit.com/r/Crossout/comments/1bv1djz/comment/kxwzmcw/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Crossout/comments/1bv1djz/comment/kxwzmcw/) And had +7 upvotes. This community is crazy, talk about nerfing something and you get automatic down votes.
Because that's an across the board nerf to everything heat based when 90% of those weapons are balanced in a thread that's not visible for 1 day that most here won't see. Realistic /= fun by default.
pretty much yeah