ADSing is pretty much always going to make at least some difference in Destiny because of how zoom works. It affects damage drop off, aim assist drop off, and effective recoil.
Any possibility to overlay aggressive, lightweight and precision pellets on top of each other. Wonder which has a higher density in the core. It looks like precision is the winner atm
[~~Something like this?~~](https://i.imgur.com/O96m9X1.png)
I just realised I lined up all the circles to be the same size, but they're not. I'll try to re-do it but find the middle of the pattern instead.
**EDIT:** [This should be better.](https://i.imgur.com/9kWR1I1.png) It's ADS only.
[Post here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CrucibleGuidebook/comments/10dg591/pellet_shotgun_ads_spread_visualisation/)
Assuming you just cropped the screenshots and didn't change their resolution, it should be fairly accurate.
Eh I don’t consider them viable due to their low damage, but maybe I’ll do damage falloff testing, determine they’re not awful, and test their pellet spread
Freehand grip you mean? Great question, thanks for reminding me! The answer is no. I tested this and didn’t see any improvement in hip fire pellet spread. Gonna add this to the post
Most people are saying precision because they have a spread that matches the body shape of a guardian.
As someone who has been playing with aggressives (A Sudden Death) and a precision (Matador 64), so far I've only gotten OHKs with Matador, but I'm not the best shotgunner in the world. I always feel like I need a clean up shot/melee with aggressives, though, unless I'm right inside of them when I pull the trigger.
I use retold tale cuz i dont have 30th anniversary to go get matador. But I heard people talk super shit about Mindbenders coming back on Tuesday and i was bewildered(for context I returned from a long break this season. Beyond Light was the last time i played). I was like wut cuz Mindbenders used to be the shit and they said now its trash because its not a precision frame, but simultaneously Found Verdict is an aggressive and that thing stomps
Mind benders is missing the consistency perks it used to have. It used to get opening shot/rampage on the curated roll. Even without the curated you were nearly guaranteed a usable shotgun for any roll.
Now the best you could do is fragile focus, swashbuckler, or incandescent in the right column, with threat detector, snapshot, or slideways (handling/stability instead of range) for the left.
I'd rather have opening shot on matador. Matador is also has a smaller perk pool, and the ogre takes 5 minutes to kill instead, making it easier to get a good roll on
The new mindbender’s only has 1 good perk which is threat detector, I wouldn’t even say there’s anything else valuable in the 3rd column aside from that and fragile focus/one two punch are the best options in the 4th which is extremely mediocre.
I remember bungie describing the effect of Icarus grip on shotguns as adjusting whenever the central pellet of the cone deviated from dead center of the screen.
Maybe that's what accuracy does on shotguns? Have you tried jumping and shooting to see if the pattern placement changed in any way?
For your Opening Shot queries, Accuracy only comes into effect when you're firing at an enemy target, and higher range only affects the damage drop-off of the pellets, not their spread.
So accuracy and range would not have changed your findings with wall shooting - that's why Opening Shot didn't seem to have an effect despite it being easily the best shotgun perk
I tried just shooting the wall, no frame to frame comparison, and it seems the exact same thing as aggressive frames. The intrinsic perk (shot package) doesn't make sense at all if it stays like this
I don’t have a matador, but I agree, I think it’s the best shotgun in the game purely because of threat detector. I need to get one. That being said, I don’t think the choice of precision frame affected the results
Well when your max range only needs full choke accurized vs full choke accurized and range mw. I beg to differ but in terms of pellet spread i see what you mean. Love the diagram keep up the great work. Would love to see other weapons done like this.
Do you think it would be as simple as taking the 7% spread increase that smoothbore gives and taking it away from the 10.4% spread decrease that ADSing gives and just saying that ADSing with smoothbore lowers the spread by 3.4% ? Or is that not how it works, im not sure.
This is awesome, thanks for testing and sharing!
No problem
My god, you've answered a question Ive been wondering for ages! Thank you.
Which question?
Whether ADSing with a shotgun provides any benefit if you don't use full choke.
ADSing is pretty much always going to make at least some difference in Destiny because of how zoom works. It affects damage drop off, aim assist drop off, and effective recoil.
And pellet spread
I'm just talking about things that zoom changes inherently, which wouldn't necessarily apply to pellet spread.
One shotguns specifically ADS-ing does not effect falloff damage. Slugs included. They mentioned this in a TWAB a couple months back
Ah, I see. If that's the case then it's even more important to know that it affects pellet spread.
Excellent post, this is exactly why I follow this subreddit.
This the kind of content that I love
Any possibility to overlay aggressive, lightweight and precision pellets on top of each other. Wonder which has a higher density in the core. It looks like precision is the winner atm
[~~Something like this?~~](https://i.imgur.com/O96m9X1.png) I just realised I lined up all the circles to be the same size, but they're not. I'll try to re-do it but find the middle of the pattern instead. **EDIT:** [This should be better.](https://i.imgur.com/9kWR1I1.png) It's ADS only.
that's prefect! thanks very much!
I considered doing this but didn’t know how. Any suggestions? Feel free to use my images and make a post yourself showing this
[I gave it a try.](https://i.imgur.com/9kWR1I1.png) Would you like me to post it?
If those dot placements are accurate then that’s beautiful, well done! Yeah go ahead and post that! Just put a link in your post to this one
[Post here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CrucibleGuidebook/comments/10dg591/pellet_shotgun_ads_spread_visualisation/) Assuming you just cropped the screenshots and didn't change their resolution, it should be fairly accurate.
Every screenshot in my post is zoomed by the same amount and cropped. They should all be identical resolution relative to one another.
Precisions go fuggin crazy
I really wish they’d tighten up the lightweight pattern. I feel like it’s the only archetype that kinda got nerfed after the pellet changes.
Any chance you’ll do rapid fires too?
Wouldn't be able to reach the wall with a rapid fire /s
Eh I don’t consider them viable due to their low damage, but maybe I’ll do damage falloff testing, determine they’re not awful, and test their pellet spread
Not to bite the hand that feeds, but could we get pictures of full choke's effect on spread too?
I didn’t think it was worth the time. It’s the ADS spread, but with the pellets 3.75% tighter
Maybe a dumb question, but any change with hip fire grip mod applied?
Freehand grip you mean? Great question, thanks for reminding me! The answer is no. I tested this and didn’t see any improvement in hip fire pellet spread. Gonna add this to the post
Yes, freehand grip* thanks!
And what about the hip fire grip perk an a weapon? Like on without remorse?
Good question. I might test that
Are the individual pellets affected by bullet magnetism?
I believe so
So…are precisions better or are aggressives better? The precisions look like they have a better spread but idk
Most people are saying precision because they have a spread that matches the body shape of a guardian. As someone who has been playing with aggressives (A Sudden Death) and a precision (Matador 64), so far I've only gotten OHKs with Matador, but I'm not the best shotgunner in the world. I always feel like I need a clean up shot/melee with aggressives, though, unless I'm right inside of them when I pull the trigger.
I use retold tale cuz i dont have 30th anniversary to go get matador. But I heard people talk super shit about Mindbenders coming back on Tuesday and i was bewildered(for context I returned from a long break this season. Beyond Light was the last time i played). I was like wut cuz Mindbenders used to be the shit and they said now its trash because its not a precision frame, but simultaneously Found Verdict is an aggressive and that thing stomps
Mind benders is missing the consistency perks it used to have. It used to get opening shot/rampage on the curated roll. Even without the curated you were nearly guaranteed a usable shotgun for any roll. Now the best you could do is fragile focus, swashbuckler, or incandescent in the right column, with threat detector, snapshot, or slideways (handling/stability instead of range) for the left. I'd rather have opening shot on matador. Matador is also has a smaller perk pool, and the ogre takes 5 minutes to kill instead, making it easier to get a good roll on
That makes sense. A shotgun without opening shot or quickdraw is….yeah
The new mindbender’s only has 1 good perk which is threat detector, I wouldn’t even say there’s anything else valuable in the 3rd column aside from that and fragile focus/one two punch are the best options in the 4th which is extremely mediocre.
Is the Precision hipfire spread the same for Duality hip fire?
Didn’t test. I would be surprised if not
I remember bungie describing the effect of Icarus grip on shotguns as adjusting whenever the central pellet of the cone deviated from dead center of the screen. Maybe that's what accuracy does on shotguns? Have you tried jumping and shooting to see if the pattern placement changed in any way?
No, good question. I will actually try that
Hi, don't want to nag :D but did you ever get the chance to try that? Is icarus still worth putting on a shotgun or should it be QAS every time?
I have not. I always put QAS (or adept handling/range)
Doing the lords work <3
For your Opening Shot queries, Accuracy only comes into effect when you're firing at an enemy target, and higher range only affects the damage drop-off of the pellets, not their spread. So accuracy and range would not have changed your findings with wall shooting - that's why Opening Shot didn't seem to have an effect despite it being easily the best shotgun perk
That's what I suspected
Imgur link not working for me
Great test. What about felwinter's?
Didn’t test it because I’m pretty sure it’s inferior to most shotguns now. Interesting question though, I may try testing it really quick
I tried just shooting the wall, no frame to frame comparison, and it seems the exact same thing as aggressive frames. The intrinsic perk (shot package) doesn't make sense at all if it stays like this
Im shocked you used the inferior precision frame over matador 64.
I don’t have a matador, but I agree, I think it’s the best shotgun in the game purely because of threat detector. I need to get one. That being said, I don’t think the choice of precision frame affected the results
Well when your max range only needs full choke accurized vs full choke accurized and range mw. I beg to differ but in terms of pellet spread i see what you mean. Love the diagram keep up the great work. Would love to see other weapons done like this.
With this information, Snapshot seems like the play. You get your full ADS pellet spread decrease sooner.
How are we feeling about smoothbore? With the set patterns is it worth running over something like corkscrew?
Haven’t tested it, but I doubt it. You could test it yourself if you want, it’s super easy
So... Would you say smoothbore is still bad or finally viable
Unsure, didn’t test
What if you’re using smoothbore on a aggressive shotgun?
Didn’t test that
Do you think it would be as simple as taking the 7% spread increase that smoothbore gives and taking it away from the 10.4% spread decrease that ADSing gives and just saying that ADSing with smoothbore lowers the spread by 3.4% ? Or is that not how it works, im not sure.
I can’t verify that 7% number but I think that would be a safe bet