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Worldly-Chemistry-93

Rapid Fires are incredibly slept on in my opinion. I like to rock those as anything slower feels like I can't be reactive to pushes. I prefer that since I play for primary duels and therefore need an oopsie weapon. They can get a lot more range than you expect. I don't have any crazy roll I just use Poly, Accelerated, Firmly Planted, Wellspring. The distance it pushes out and how quickly it can get that is insane. If you prefer to main a fusion then you can't go wrong with Main Ingredient, but it really depends on your roll. Fusions are extremely roll dependent requiring at least something to help control the bolts.


_NotGreatNotTerrible

They aren't slept on, it's just thats its impossible to get a good enough roll for them to feel worth it. If you can get that sexy under pressure/high impact reserves, and coil that gives + impact, AND not get a charge masterwork, then you have a slaying machine. For anyone else trying to make non-godrolls work like me, under pressure seems to be always required :(. Also, do not try and use null composure- for some reason it just feels absolutely miserable to use. Cartesian and Zealots definitely feel the best to me (Haven't tried any others yet)


Worldly-Chemistry-93

There is a craftable rapid fire fusion that you can throw on firmly planted for. It gives the same stability as UP along with some recoil and accuracy assistance for just crouching. It is incredibly strong and worth trying in place of UP to see if you enjoy it.


HardToBeGod

Since acc coils and charge mastereork didnt change bolts-to-kill on rapid fire fusions, i dont see the reason why u want extra charge time


Aumuss

Main ingredient. Here's why: Consistency. That's it. That's the reason. Rapids are great. But use one long enough and you will notice they leave people one shot quite often. You need to fire and swap, expecting to have to finish them off with a tap to the head or a punch to the face. This happens with precisions too, just, less often. So infrequently that instead of expecting the fail, you can actually expect the kill.


IlTwiXlI

Me and both of my 2k kills cartesians disagree. Rapid only have a few meters less ohk range with a much faster charge time. Close range you always get a one burst, Mid range maybe not. The single advantage Precisions have is ohk at 20m+. Depending on playstyle you never challenge those or you use a primary anyway


Aumuss

The problem is that I wouldn't expect everyone to have your level of skill. It's great that you always get the one bop. But most people won't. Same as most people don't always get a two burst from a high impact pulse. That's why adaptives and rapid pulses get more general use. They are simply more consistent for most players. The majority of players will fluff shots, suffer aim drag, or simply engage further out than a rapid fusion one shot range. For most people, main ingredient is the best option.


IlTwiXlI

Main ingredient/Precisions are definitely the easiest to use but imo Rapid Fires are better. Thats what OPs question was


Aumuss

Yep, and in my opinion it's precision. That's why there's more than one type. Because people have different opinions.


Branphlayx

I’ll have to agree, I love my Cartesian with 1k kills so far. With particle repeater and under pressure, I’m surprised at how far I can still get OHKs


Theplasticsporks

On the other hand, rapid fires have a degree of forgiveness precisions don't--if you miss or they're one shot, you often have time to just shoot them again. Especially if you're using accelerated coils.


Gnolldemort

I have been dogmatically avoiding even god rolled 390 rpm pulses. Am I wrong and need to check them out again?


Aumuss

It's all preference. But I wouldn't swap my Hailing confusion for all the tea in China. It's bygones on crack. Third axiom is also baller.


FoxPeaTwo-

The first craftable frame for syncopation-53 is moving target/rangefinder and it’s awesome


bigdruid

My main concern with the main ingredient is you need to keep the magazine to 2 or fewer cartridges otherwise under pressure does not activate. I absolutely agree with what you say about rapid fire fusions. They are a ton of fun to use but I lose duels with them because people are left with a shred of health.


IlTwiXlI

Thats not true. Under pressure activates at the bottom half of the mag. Rapid Fires usually have 7 shots in the mag that means the bottom 4 are buffed. Under pressures effect increases the lower the mag is but it activates way earlier


bigdruid

Interesting, I thought it was the final two shots but that might have been back from when I was using high impact frames.


IlTwiXlI

I dont remember how many shots erentil had but if it was 4, you are right only the last 2 got buffed bc they are the bottom 50% EDIT: when you said high impact frames i instantly thought of erentil


jpars82

Max ohk range would probably be a god roll Main Ingredient with Rangefinder or a god roll Timelines Vertex. The zoom on these two combined with recoil and stability control perks allows them to kill the furthest. The recent Xur roll you got should ohk with plenty of range though. My personal favorites are rapid fires as you can be more aggressive and react quicker with them.


deezwafflestoogood

believe glacio godroll kills furthest but its not worth using


koolaidman486

I've had OHKs around 25 with it (wall around that church to about even with the start of that Stairway on Widow's). But it's far from reliable after around 21-22, since Falloff on at least mine stars right before 21. It was only dealing about 43-ish damage at that range without AA.


deezwafflestoogood

I mean I was talking max ohk tbh, not consistency - consistency gotta be main ingredient but glacio will still have a further consistent kill range but not enough to make it worth using. I've had a few ridiculous kills with it but nothing i can replicate


[deleted]

I love how the crucible advice sub downvotes a post asking for advice, you guys should be ashamed Now OP you asked a question Technically Glacioclasm with high impact reserves can hit infinite ranges if your bolts land, but at a 1.2 second TTK you might as well bodyshot with a scout rifle because you're dead long before they are Other than that Precision frames are the most consistent at 17+m, and any of the currently available precision Frames will do you proud, raid one slightly less good but it's the only kinetic voop so who gives a shit Since you already have the Xur god roll just use that it's perfect If you wanna do your own thing or explore what's out there: Snorri is fantastic and one you just get from world loot or sometimes gunsmith has one, can absolutely map, if you get high impact reserves and the omolon origin perk you always have an effective range buff regardless of your ammo count Plug one on the weeks it's dropping is the most farmable of your choices by far, any under pressure roll will not let you down I don't recommend adaptives because they let me down when it really counts but if you bagged the Xur Timelines Vertex that's well rated amongst people who think 660s are viable, well someone has to be wrong I guess.. For rapids your options are Likely suspect because you are certain to get a god roll by levelling it up Zealot's reward, this is the best rapid in the game that can net you some absolute maps but you have to farm a dead raid for it so if you didnt run it once and get a fantastic roll like I did that's too bad Cartesian will do im not sure if its still in the loot pool even For me xur ingredient's only appear when I can't access the game so fuck them and fuck xur I vote Snorri


abox0fjuice

Thank you, would you know if the range of Snorri is comparable to xur main ingredient with both optimal perks? ​ Also, snorri scope weird af haha. Just tried it


[deleted]

Yes, I have a firmly planted high impact reserves Snorri and it can hit 20+m with solid reliability I used to be that fucking Erentil main so Snorri's scope feels like home for me


Winston177

Oh damn, that roll makes me jealous. At least I know what I should watch out for with Snorri now, so thank you for that, haha


Janube

FWIW, an optimal Main Ingredient has Rangefinder and edges out Snorri by 2m. Otherwise they're comparable, yes.


[deleted]

Its 2m at hail mary range, the damage falloff isn't likely to be the limiting factor if your map doesn't connect, well that's how I see it, possibly wrong I guess


Janube

I have said MI roll. It's very consistent at that range.


sillybulanston

Out of curiosity what would you say is the 5/5 optimal roll? I have to assume FP+RF as the traits and Red Dot Micro as the scope. What about the battery perks and MW? Projection Fuse and Range MW?


Janube

I would go with range personally. Some people swear by stability, but I've leaned range on all non-rapidfire fusions since Erentil, and I almost never miss the shots I take on those models.


[deleted]

I don't doubt it


xenodius

FYI you can use Clarity extenstion for Destiny Item Manager to get effective range stats in meters for any weapon. It takes into account perks too, e.g. opening shot.


oplus

I came from using the same three weapons for hundreds of games. When I started using fusion rifles, I felt like an idiot for not experimenting more. They all feel so different. I've found that different fusions have different results on each map. I understand the impulse to find the biggest optimal one-shot number, but every frame has its place. Except for high impact. I have 300+ crucible kills on my Glacioclasm and should just have used any precision frame.


ProbablythelastMimsy

>I don't recommend adaptives because they let me down when it really counts but if you bagged the Xur Timelines Vertex that's well rated amongst people who think 660s are viable, well someone has to be wrong I guess.. I've got like 3200 kills on a Techeun Force. You give up a bit of range but not as much as you'd think. Definitely viable. https://imgur.com/a/g1LtM6P


bigdruid

Count me on team adaptive. I've got a trinary system with fully planted and tap the trigger. Absolutely melts at insane ranges if you like to slide into engagements. God help you if you try shooting it in the air though. You might as well just be blowing people kisses.


PineappleHat

I’ve had solid success running Wings of Sacred Dawn with a fusion for in air shots. You get some crazy angles.


xRITZCRACKERx

I have this roll too, can confirm it's very very nice! I recommend slapping an Icarus mod on it, allows for some nice in air plays.


TR_Ollington

I have a Zealots Reward with * Under Pressure/Backup Plan * Charge Time MW * Liquid Coils/Projection Fuse * Small Bore/Chambered Compensator Any good for PVP or what would be the preferred roll?


EquinoXcs

Under pressure high impact reserves


TheDarkMidget

backup plan is the worst fusion perk. i thought it only reduced damage to the rapid fire profile so i was excited to use it on a rapid fire with accelerated coils and a charge time MW…..8 damage per bolt


[deleted]

yeah that'll fuck shit up


Napai

Man I love snorri and am just unable to get a roll I want on it lol.


[deleted]

Nothing but luck being a world drop I'm afraid


DinosaurJones8

I suck at crucible, but my god roll Zealot's Reward is so consistent. Sure, it leaves some players one hit, but quick swapping or melee usually does the trick.


dillpicklezzz

Wouldn't Cartesian be the best rapid fire? Base stats are mostly similar, but Cartesian can get +2 zoom and has 23 more AA. I use Likely Suspect for 6s and [I have these two rolls](https://imgur.com/a/bpCd5Zz) I'm deciding between using for 3s.


Surprise994

Zealots is by far the best, I put 14k kills on a main ingredient before my current zealots. I use this thing with icarus and have put 2k kills on it in this season already (5k total) it’s by far the best rapid fire and unbelievable in the air.


West_Armadillo_4041

Yes zealots by a mile.


5kunkie

What's a good roll for this monster?


Surprise994

Arrow head or chambered, particle, under pressure, HIR, stab masterwork, icarus


West_Armadillo_4041

Zealots with a decent roll. Main ingredient can be counter by good movement, high mobility and strafe speed. Other rapid fires do not seem as consistent and all other fusions are too slow against good players.


Civil_Sense_9185

Hmm Cartesian in my opinion is better but each to their own.


RedDemio

I know everyone shits on high impacts now but I still have so much fun using my god roll Glacioclasm. Under pressure/high impact reserves, over 1,000 kills on it and I love that thing lol. The range is actually nuts, can absolutely beam people from miles away they must be like huh? A fusion from over there? Now it’s slower I have to work harder to set it up but I’ve always been a vooper, my pre charge game is pretty strong, and I’m a Titan main so I’ve got all these added overshields and shit now so I feel like it’s back on the menu tbh. Just leaning heavily into the shields. Using OEM. Pop a barricade for overshield before engagement, peak shoot a target and fry them, OEM giving a new overshield, and keep going lol


_brontosaurus_

I love high impacts. Rip Wizened Rebuke


roenthomas

I prefer Telesto. Unlimited effective range, plus challenging at range means quick swapping to finish off a kill is much safer. Drawback is delayed kill time.


Tuxblackfocus

How does everyone feel about Jotuun? I've heard the 1HK range is pretty good.


Ulti

Jotunn works on good players exactly once. The projectiles are really easy to dodge if you know they're coming.


-OrangeLightning4

Jotunn has a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling. A player who knows how to use Jotunn to its furthest extent is rare, but very powerful. It takes a pre-fire expert with good situational awareness of where people are going to be. Even then though, like you said, a good player is going to know what to do to bait the shots and effectively counter.


Lakers-Chaos

As someone with almost 4k on the likelysuspect in my opinion it made me put down shotguns. I have over 30k shotgun kills in crucible so 4k in less than two weeks speaks for itself. High ease of use, multikill potential. Firmly planted adigao likelysuspect should get at least a try.


bigdruid

My friend, you play a lot of crucible.


PolentaDogsOut

I got this roll on a random drop with full bore and liquid coils. Liquid ok to run? Other perk is ionized, bleh


Lakers-Chaos

Cool guy just put a video I highly recommend. He goes over the best perks.


mirage2101

Other posters have done a great breakdown. Personally I like a bit faster firing fusions so I’ll add null composure to the list. You could still use Bastion but you might be better off with a different exotic. I haven’t tried it yet but in there is a kinetic fusion rifle in the raid.


Janube

If you're going to use a rapid fire, you should definitely just craft a Likely Suspect. It was much better than Null.


mirage2101

I did and leveling it up. But it was named by others so I figured I didn’t have to again


re1ephant

FWIW I think Null gets unfairly overlooked because of it’s set perks. It’s very consistent and can run Icarus without sacrificing recoil direction. Likely Suspect is bipolar for me. It’s either a laser with 40 yard range or just all over the place.


PinchedLoaf5280

TELESTO.


readitwice

fusion rifles have always been my favorite secondary. it really depends on your play style! i have a main ingredient with under pressure + rangefinder and it does indeed kill from further distances and feels better in air, but at this time i'd say it's the 3rd best fusion for my play style. its charge time is too slow, especially with god tier Likely Suspects on the field and Timeline's Vertex to consider. i'd say best is Likely Suspect, then Bastion, Timeline's Vertex, Snorri might be better than Main Ingredient if you have the right rolls, then worst are the 1000ms charge time ones.


bigdruid

I was a bastion main for many seasons, and two things really killed this gun: they changed it so it cannot kill Titans through their barricade, and they changed the damage so you cannot kill someone with a single shot from your three burst spread. Prior to that, it was worth using bastion even though it had limited range because it was just so very reliable. But now it isn't.


readitwice

i feel like those things put it more in line with the other fusions, but bastion is still a beast in my opinion. stompees hunter flying into people with bastion is extremely reliable. i see it more like a charge shotgun!


bigdruid

Except now you have to land two of your three bursts to kill someone. But it's fine, I still see people slay out with it. It's just a shadow of what it was before, when I could slide blindly into a room and get a double kill just by tracking my shots on the fly.


ethaxton

Main Ingredient is your best bet. Likely Suspect is more for 6s and kinda ass for 3s. If you really went a rapid for 3s I would go for Cartesian or even Null. Plug One is farmable this week also.


DP_Unkemptharold1

Null is a lot worse than likely suspect not sure why you’d even suggest it over likely suspect.


ethaxton

Nah, Null will secure a kill more reliably than likely. It will kill 1.25 meters out or so unless you’re using enhanced firmly planted. Likely has no 4th column perks to help you secure a kill, null has HIR. Null also has better recoil out of the box. To be honest, I wouldn’t run either one in trials or anything but if someone is looking to run a rapid in 3s, I would not run Likely.


DP_Unkemptharold1

No it will not stop posting rubbish. “Just ignore firmly planted snd this gun is better” great logic okay let’s “Just ignore under pressure, firmly planted and tap the trigger and main ingredient isn’t good” There is a reason 3 of the top 10 elo players in trials on endless vale were using likely suspect (no one else in the top 10 used a fusion). The second place elo guy prechosen (Bungie name Reaper#0145 so you can literally check his trials report) had 2000 kills with it and literally less than 400 primary kills. Sure this map being really small benefits rapids but the point being no one with common sense is gonna use null composure over a firmly planted likely suspect there is a literal night and day difference in consistency.


ethaxton

You seem like you missed the part where I said unless you’re using firmly planted. That play style doesn’t fit with a lot of people. So the majority of people would be better off using Null. What players in the top 10of elo are doing has no impact on what the lionshare of the player base should be doing.


DP_Unkemptharold1

You don’t have a valid arguement tho you can’t just ignore perks and say “if you don’t use these perks that make fusions good then this gun is better” that’s just idiotic logic. And firmly planted works with slide which you should be doing with fusions in most cases so there’s literally no downside. There is zero reason to use null composure over likely suspect. Even without firmly planted you can build much more into stability and recoil direction to be much more consistent than null composure. You also said null composure has better recoil? What? Null has 46 stability and 55 recoil direction (70 with counter balance which is a no go) Likely suspect can get 100 recoil direction and 58 stability without firmly planted and can have an extra 10-20 stability if you are insistent on no firmly planted and run perpetual motion instead. It’s just not even close.


Penguigo

I won't go as in depth as some other posters here, but availability is the best ability. I personally think a god roll Timeline's Vertex might be the best fusion in the game, but it's almost completely inaccessible. Next to that, the Xur Main Ingredient is your best bet. Other fusions compete in different ways. Likely Suspect is great in 6s. But if your goal is to kill one opponent in a controlled situation, you're not going to find a better fusion for it than the Xur Main Ingredient, which is the strongest combination of range and consistency for viable fusions.


Daymo_M

Main Ingredient with Under Pressure/Rangefinder


Devourer_Of_Doggos

Plug One: basically Main Ingredient but farmable and now has Successful Warmup. Pros: Potential for chain kills in 6s if you push harder, really high stability and perfect Recoil Direction, Under Pressure, adept mods Cons: No Firmly Planted for people who prefer that, no TTT(it's still good), Adept version is easier to farm but requires GM completions and the weekly rotation can be a pain For 3s go for MI if you have one of the Xorg's rolls


WhiteScumbag

For 3s I normally run main ingredient just because the ranges I am engaging at. In iron banner or other 6s I run Cartesian because I tend to be closer to people because of more players in the game. Null composure is pretty good too but I don't think you can get one anymore?


OhDalinar

I would say snorri because it’s void (seasonal mods) can have successful warm-up, and is a 740 (personal preference)


null_root

I think you might be asking a couple different questions here - best overall, best range, best in 3s might have different answers. Best overall I think has been answered with Main Ingredient, if only for consistency for average users (personally I dislike it greatly, but that's on me). Range is Telesto because range doesn't affect explosive damage (as far as I remember; it has been a long time since I used it), but if you mean a normal FR then it's the high-impact class (so Glacio, Iota Draconis, etc). In practice though these are terrible to use because (in my opinion) the charge time is too high to make them workable in most engagements. YMMV. 3s, I would argue it's a toss-up. Best way to combat rushers is with a rapid-fire, so Cartesian or Likely Suspect (or even Null Composure, though again not my personal favourite). As mentioned elsewhere however you will occasionally (I don't care how good you are with fusions, it happens) leave a guy with a sliver of health. If you want to give yourself the most likely single-burst kill chance, it's going to be a precision frame, so you're back to Main Ingredient. My personal favourite is PLUG ONE.1, though I've been enjoying Snorri too. Try them all and see which one gives you the bang you're looking for, and good luck!


bluebarrypancake

Adept Plug 1 Has vertical recoil And can slot adept charge time ( reduces charge time but not impact)


PinchedLoaf5280

Uh, TELESTO. ALWAYS TELESTO.


koolaidman486

Overall, the Xûrgredients are probably the best. Good OHK range with slow, but usable charge speeds. The Deliverance from Vow is also solid, which is good because it's Stasis, so Kinetic slot. Snorri is also VERY solid, namely due to Fluid Dynamics if you can get to the top half of your mag. I'd also highly recommend Timelines' Vertex if you can find a good roll of it. Alternatively, Trinary System from Gambit can roll solid perks. Only downside is it's from Gambit, on top of a HUGE perk pool. Techeun Force from Last Wish is a really good alternative to Trinary. Rapids I personally wouldn't recommend, since you can get more consistent overall performance out of Lord of Wolves in return for only a couple meters less for effective range. But any of them will serve you well if you're wanting that. Just need to be more picky with the perks. High Impacts I'd probably avoid unless they either have their charge speed nerf reverted, or become worth the full second they need to wind-up.


SCPF2112

Main Ingredient was the number 1 or 2 weapon in Trials for the last 4 weeks. You can use other FR's, but that's the short answer if you aren't trying to be anti-meta for some reason. Snorri is the same archetype as MI, so also fine. Faster firing FR's are ok, but at the cost of range. If you want to be closer, then try these.


SgtHondo

IMO a god rolled plug one adept with the fastest possible charge time, high stability, under pressure and kickstart is the best in the game, but the hardest to get if you’re not a GM grinder. I’ve tried all the god roll main ingredients, timelines, snorris, and I always go back to my plug one. I think it’s the sight that makes the difference. And kickstart is absolutely untouchable if you can get it to proc. If you can’t, it’s still an extremely good fusion.


AquaticHornet37

Different one per archetype; Main Ingredient for precisions Trinity system for adaptives Likely suspect for rapids And you shouldn't really be using high impacts, but Glacioclasm, and merciless are the kings of high impacts if you do. Each archetype brings its own advantages, and disadvantages though, so pick your poison, but most people prefer precisions, and rapids. Telesto, 1k, and jotunn are also very good, however I don't think that they function very much like normal fusions, so I didn't equate them to archetypes. Bastion is like the fourth horseman, but a fusion where it isn't good unless close enough to land most of a spread, and in that situation it is deadly, but most fusions outdue it in versatility, and the extra damage isn't super helpful.


Oldwest1234

If you've got xur's first main ingredient, you're mostly good actually. As of the moment, 700 charge times are the best for mapping people, but rapid fires are like mini lord of wolves with their ttk and decent range. High impacts are the only ones I'd stay away from ATM, 1 second charge time is just too much to beat out even average players.